You rock.
I thought I did a pretty good take-down, yours was simply phenomenal.
Watch yourself. A Vietnam Vet, now a sitting U.S. senator was as big a liar and traitor as this guy. Look where it got him. In congress and looked on as a traitor by half the world. No one would trust him in an outhouse with a muzzle on, but he's a congress member from the failed state of Ma. What does that say about the majority of people in Ma? They are either all stupid or they're of such low ego they're impressed by the Heinz/Kennedy money. That must be a miserable way to live.
Thanks for the link. I don't wish Mr. Hicks any ill, but do think that those who wish to prop up folks like him as heroes to the left need to hear what he has to say in his own voice.
By the way, it is "Let Them Enforce it", not "Let Men Force It", though that is kinda cool too.
My blog is about judicial activism, which is where the President Andrew Jackson (a distant relative of mine by marriage) quote comes from.
OOPPS ArrMatey - I'll fix that right now. Guess my eyes were crossing with so much computer work today! Great job on the Hicks research!
There's a lot of Vet's Hicks wouldn't want to meet at any time. I'll keep the yellow ribbon on my truck and a loaded 9MM on the seat so he won't make but one mistake.
This is the message i sent the little turd:
"I am an Iraq War veteran and not only am I FOR this war, we should have leveled Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan on 12 September 2001. They want a 'holy war' we should give them holy hell. If you want to be anti-war sycophants, go right ahead, but you do not speak for me or the majority of the veterans of the GWOT. The invasion of Afghanistan (conspicuously absent from the anti-war debate) was prompted by its use as a major operating base for al Qaeda. The invasion of Iraq was prompted by several factors: Saddam Hussein (who now occupies a special corner of hell) filled hundreds of mass graves with men, women and children, and slaughtered 5000 Kurds with “non-existent” chemical weapons. He thumbed his nose at the pusillanimous UN for 12 years, while he continued to research, develop, and hide the evidence of his WMD program. He was well on the way to developing more bio/chem weapons when he was finally stopped. He gave thousands of dollars to families of suicide bombers and in addition, Iraqi intelligence met with al Qadea operatives and provided with training camps in Northern Iraq. Had we tried to limit our operations to Afghanistan, there is no doubt in my military mind that Hussein’s insanity combined with his support of terrorist activities, defiant development of WMDs and willingness to use them, would have still necessitated an invasion into Iraq. Hint: what we did was a pre-emptive strike validated by U.N. Resolution 1441. You ought to read it sometime.
In case you forgot we were attacked by Islamofascist pigs who have support throughout the Middle East. They want to transform the planet into a Caliphate, and all you silly-assed "veterans against the war" can do is piss and moan about what is takes to see that it doesn't happen. I'm very glad you're out of the Army, Hicks. Too bad you haven't done anything constructive since. And since when have PRIVATES been able to "retire"? Asshat."
No one forced the little jackass to enlist. He did it willingly. Apparently, he’s not smart enough to figure out that the U.S. sends the military where it’s needed, you don’t get to pick and choose assignments or conflicts, and the purpose of the Army is to fight and win the nation’s wars. This kid is a fucking train wreck with no redeeming social value. I’ve always woundered why these morons volunteer for the military, then piss about what they were sent to do.
SFCMAC - Thank you for your service and thank you for speaking out against these asswipes that denigrate the service of the heroes of our Military. I wish more vets would speak out about the lies from these fools.
John Kerry did obliterate his credibility with the silly stories he told to Congress after his service.
Hicks has gone too far, as well.
But as Limbaugh says: "The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things." We need to start right here at home to wreak "holy hell."
We've got 9,000,000 Moslems in the U.S. (they continue to pour in) and many of them are "the enemy." We're doing next to nothing to roust these filth and get them the hell outta here.
Actually, I think TSO came out with the "kill people and break things" quote back in 2004... I was there when he said it. I may be wrong about the originality, but I know he said it back then.
And great blog, Robin. Congrats on your recent laurels.
booboo - now what are you trying to do? yesterday it was bashing conservatives and chickenhawks - today you're painting all muslims with a broad brush. me thinks you are simply trying to stir the pot so you can cry "gotcha". we don't play that game here.
I stand on my statements.
I honestly do not understand why the things I've said are so unbelievable, what reason have I to lie? I volunteered when I was seventeen, I wanted to fight in Iraq, I would have enlisted on September 11th but I was too young of course. I went to Iraq ready to die because I believed so strongly in what I thought I was doing. Look at me now. Obviously something happened over there that dramatically changed my mind and completely altered me as a person. Now what do you think that was?
I challenge anyone in this world to produce a scout or a tanker who was in C Troop, 1-1 Cavalry in Baghdad in 2003 and 2004 who knows me and will look me in the eyes and say that I am lying.
That man does not exist,
Clifton Hicks
Clifton:
The proper question is why did you enlist in the first place? Are you one of those "uneducated" stuck-in Iraq people that Kerry referred to? Newsflash sweetpea, you're being confronted by many an Iraq war vet (includinf me) who see you for what you are: a puerile, abject loser.
Clifton - excuse me while I compose myself from laughing hysterically...
YOU stand on your statements. That's about right cause anyone telling the truth would stand BY their statements. You have contradicted yourself so many times that you have ZERO credibility left. You want to prove you're telling the truth - release your records. YOU back up your statements with facts. I don't have to prove you're lying - you prove you are telling the truth. That's the way it works in the real world.
Just a quick comment or two -- Firstly SFMAC is with the rest of the country that didn't understand the joke John kerry messed up when it sounded like he was downing the troops...he was in fact trying to down Bush for sayin Bush is uneducated and stuck in Iraq....Yes, John Kerry messed up and whats new right?
Secondly, to all those who think the Iraq war is just, the U.S broke international law to enter to penalize Iraq for breaking international law!! Isn't that ironic? Chemical weapons and terrible dictators are everywhere; so why did we go into Iraq? You should ask yourself that. -- And the reason Afghanistan is not meantioned a lot is because I think the majority of veterans (eevn VFP) believe it was justified and legal.
I know Clifton Hicks personally and your attempted attacks to bring down his reputation are hold no water.....just as Kerry's joke was taken out of context so are Cliff Hicks' quotes.
yes i noticed all the typos..go ahead and comment on them if you like
Hey anthony,
Kerry's "joke" was an insult directed at Soldiers in the GWOT. I'm not laughing.
Let me make this simple:
The invasion of Afghanistan was prompted by its use as the major operating base for al Qaeda.
The invasion of Iraq was instigated by 12 years of nose thumbing on the part of a WMD-wielding terrorist-supporting megalomaniac. U.N. Resolution 1441 gave Hussein an ultimatum and us the specific authority to force compliance, by any necessary means. That included military force. You ought to read it sometime.
In case you didn’t know, we found a substantial amount of hidden WMD along with documents and recordings in which Saddam Hussein emphatically stated his intention to continue WMD development and deception.
I don't know Hicks from Adam, but if his behavior is any indication, he has serious integrity and character flaws.
BTW: Cliffie dropped in and made a comment on my blog to wit: "Prove I'm lying". To which I responded:
I bet your former First Sergeant, the one who refered to you as “bitch”, could probably provide some insight. I’m also willing to bet that the members of your former unit remember you as a problem child. Ya know, the whole ’suddenly I woke up and realized that I didn’t belong here’ spiel is pretty fatuous, given the fact that you volunteered, knew we were at war, and as expected, were sent to do what the Army does. And to think you realized this on your first day of training at Ft. Knox? Newsflash sweetpea, you’re talking to war veterans who know your type. Having been in the military, we are also in a position to pick apart any claims that reek of dishonesty. You and Scott Beauchamp must be soulmates. You joined for the college money, not to pick up your rifle and do what you were trained for. War is hell. Every Soldier who has been there knows that. But most are mature enough to realize that they were doing their jobs, and fighting for a noble cause. Right now I can’t think of a better one than destroying Islamofascist scumbags who not only attacked this country, but want to put a Minaret in place of the U.S. Capitol. If you had a problem with that, you should have stayed in Gainsville.
SFC MAC
I stand by MY statements.
Oh yeah and BTW anthony, George Bush earned an M.B.A. from Harvard in 1975.
Not exactly "uneducated".
Let's examine Kerry's exact words:
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
That's awfully funny coming from an "educated" guy who got "stuck" in Vietnam. His antics there are the subject of intense debate, as well.
Anthony - taken out of context? Go listen to the audio of the interview and then read Hicks' own writing. Hicks' failure to remember his own little stories is not OUR problem. And no one here is taking down Hicks' reputation - he did that just fine all by his lonesome.
Wow...much response. I like the conversation.
Ok I still dispute with the Kerry joke being about the troops. It was a botched joke that he fucked up and it sounded like the was going after the troops...but he wasn't. He was trying to state that Bush was uneducated and got the country stuck in Iraq. Kerry is not the best politician or campaigner and is terrible when he tries to make a good point..thats why he lost the '04 election. But that being said, Bush only got into Yale because his father was a graduate and had that special treatment (it happens all the time, not just to Bush) and he got into Harvard as a courtesy after being rejected frmo University of Texas Law school. But who cares, Im not here to talk about that.
Let me reiterate that I wasn't speaking against Afghanistan. in fact, I believe that if we stayed there and did the job properly we would be a lot more effective. instead we took most of our forces out too soon to enter Iraq and now the Taliban is coming back to power.
Another thing is that Iraq never attacked us as SFCMAC stated above, nor was Saddam an Islamofascist. The radical muslims in Iraq were persecuted because they hated Saddam. He didn't want anything to do with them. Saddam was very far from that side of Islam...
Ok, Im not here to throw haymakers and just say stuff that doesn't make any sense. But I am fed up with the bullshit mantra of "Support the troops" so dont speak out against this war. This country should have the decency to send our young men and women into harms way only if it is a threat. And they should have the decency to take care of the vets when they come home. It seems to me like the vets are the only ones holding up their end of the deal. They go overseas, fight, get injured or die and thats it. The gov't forgets about the promises of healthcare or education....and sends them to war not to protect our freedom but for the economic security of a few rich guys.
Anthony - no one said that you can't speak out against the war but there is quite a difference between speaking out against the war and accusing our Military and our country of war crimes. You are simply spouting more of the IVAW crap with your crack about "economic security of a few rich guys" and show just how ignorant you truly are.
I am not calling anyone names but I think its truly ignorant to think that our military does not commint war crimes...I mean, who do you think the military is made up of? They are only human beings put into extraordinary circumstances and have to react accordingly. A robot can react to situations without emotion involved but when you add the human element, especially young 18-19 year olds that don't have a grasp on the world yet and ask them to defend their country to the death, you are going to get some that take it too far. Remember....the military is made up of normal guys...I was one of them. I knew my peers...I knew the ones that were in for the college money, the ones that were in because of Sept. 11th, the ones that were in due to a family tradition etc. etc. I also knew the ones that did not have outstanding moral character, the ones I did not trust watching my back, the ones who stole cars on base and vandalized the military parking lots. These are just normal people. Why wouldn't they commit war crimes? In more than 4 yaers of war you think no war crimes have been committed? I think thats naive -- Especially when brave men who took part have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and speak out. We shouldn't be calling them names, we should be thanking them.
Anthony:
Two quick points:
If you think Saddam Hussein would have continued to twiddle his thumbs an not get involved the way Iran and Syria are right now, then you didn't grasp the situation too well. He was a viable threat to troops in the region. Actually, we should have marched all the way to Baghdad the first time in 91. The fact that he was left alive and in power only boosted his arrogance.
No matter where we strike back, the enemy will cross borders to get there, because they are trained, funded, indoctinated, and supported throughout the ME. I can't reiterate that enough. Iraq and Afghanistan are two good places to start, but as I said, I'd have made what William Tecumseh Sherman did to Atlanta look like a backyard picnic.
Mohammad Atta and company didn't yell "hey, let's crash these planes to get back at a few rich guys", they shouted "Allah u Akbar" against the entire Western Civilization. The rabid Islamic toads want to kill us. They made that pretty clear on 9/11. If you don't get that, maybe they didn't hit close enough to your own back yard.
As for calling names...I call them as I see them.
If you want to level justifiable anger, do so against the politicians and leftwingnut activists who claim to support us the whole time they're busy degrading the military. And last but not least: You cannot support the troops without also supporting the mission. The two are not mutually exclusive. We are in a fight for survival, and before this is over, you can expect it to expand. The jihadists won't quit until they're all dead. Which is fine my me.
Fine BY me, that is.. damn typos...
Anthony - there is quite a difference b/t war crimes and war itself.I am not naive to believe that there are some bad apples, take for instance those that participated in the rape and murder of Abeer and her family. But to imply or claim that war crimes are rampant is far beyond the pale.
As far as any so-called war crimes witnessed by you and your "comrades" you are just as complicit for not reporting them at the time as the alleged perpetrators. It shows a complete lack of character on your part to wait until you are stateside and then get in front of a bunch a people and spout your bullshit. Like I said before - offer up some proof of what you claim. Then we can continue this conversation.
Anthony:
Oh yeah, and your bit about war crimes: Why is it that the plethora of YouTube beheadings, bombings, stoning of women, and incessant foaming at the mouth by Muslims gets a pass while the RARE crime committed by Soldiers is covered like stink on shit. You'll notice that when Murtha trumped up the Haditha story, the investigators dropped most of the charges due to lack of proof. Those that are found guilty, pay a heavy price. Not so the little jihadists in GITMO. They get three hots, a cot, bowing to Mecca six times a day, and fretting by the ACLU, to boot.
In this old former Soldier's opinion, we should'nt be taking ANY prisoners.
BTW: remember that Islamic puke by the name of SGT Hasan Akbar? He joined the U.S. Army only to end up murdering some of our fellow Soldiers at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait. I was just down the road at Camp Udari. One of the people he murdered was a young Captain in one of our subordinate brigades at Ft, Campbell: Captain Christopher Seifert. It's bad enough we have to fight the muslim fucksticks in the Middle East, but some of them pop up in our ranks to enact their own 'jihad'? Now, THAT was a war crime. The day they carry out the death sentance for that piece of shit, I'm gonna celebrate.
I think that we fundamentally do not agree on one main point and that is this: I dont not believe that Saddam Hussein is part of the Islamic/Fascist - want a caliphate - organization that you believe. I know it exists....but it did not in Iraq pre-invasion. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, northern Africa, even the phillipines.... -- these are all places where the problem exists. That being said, I dont think toppling the governements of very one of these countries solves the complicated issue of international relations. As we can see in iraq, no matter how strong and powerful the U.S military is, it will never be easy to invade a country and try to rebuild it. The reason why Gulf War 1 was so successful was that Bush Sr. got out immediately.
And on the supporting the troops and/or the mission....when I was in Iraq I did not take offense when people protested the war or administration. I look at it the same way I look at criticism of Enron or Walmart....people talk about these companies but no one is actually degrading the receptionist at the front desk or the janitor sweeping the floor...they are attacking the policies and law-breaking by the CEO's and executives. So, I think it is mutually exclusive. The troops dont make the decisions but they do have to carry out the orders and they can't be held responsible for the foreign policy of any administration. Ok....lets see what response this gets!
Robin...I neverf claimed to have witnessed anything...thanks for the misquote
I want to make one more comment about what Robin said above about war crimes and reporting them ---
War is hell, and thats why we shouldnt go to it unless its absolutely necessary. Men will die, homes will be destroyed, families ruined, crimes committed...its inevitable. When a country goes to war it should be the last option.
Ok now for the crimes...I dont know Robin's bio but I am willing to bet he hasnt been in a life and death situation where everyone around him had lots of guns and lots of ammo. Sometimes you have to wait for a safe environment before you open your mouth. You dont want to be the next victim....or make your wife a widow and children fatherless
Hussein WAS part of the threat, as was Zarqawi, al Masri, Uday and Qusay. I wouldn't bother to "topple", I'd just simply level them. Here's the simple reasons and solutions to your "complictaed international problem": The muslims 'hearts and minds' are stuck in a 7th Century philosophy and hellbent on making it a way of life for everyone.
Hell, we've even got them here in the U.S. Have you read the comments from CAIR or some of the Islamic elected officials? Our policy should be straightforward and direct: You attack us, we destroy you and your supporters. How complicated can that be?
The aftermath of the first Gulf War was far from successful. Hussein laughed all the way to the bank thanks to Russia, Germany, France, and Koffi Anan's "Oil for Food" scam.
When I was in Iraq, I took GREAT offense to the anti-war asshats who have no idea what it means to live under the totalitarian systems they admire so much.
By "not mutually exclusive", I mean the misson is as important as supporting those who carry it out. Make sense?
I know about decision making and following orders. I did it for over 30 combined years. (22 active 10 Reserve)
As for the foreign policy, the only problem I have with the current one is that it doesn't go far enough. Clinton's "foreign policy" was a huge debacle; Somalia, Bosnia, and the lackadaisical attitude toward the terrorist threat.
One more thing about you buddy Hicks: The kid is a copycat Beauchamp, without the editorial backup of a screed like the New Republic. Instead he's left to flounder on the IVAW site, with the rest of the disgruntled "my-First-Sergeant-didn't-like-me" crowd.
Anthony:
Your're quote: "War is hell, and thats why we shouldnt go to it unless its absolutely necessary. Men will die, homes will be destroyed, families ruined, crimes committed...its inevitable. When a country goes to war it should be the last option."
Well shit, doncha think we waited long enough? Clinton had beaucoup chances to kick off the GWOT, but the Chinese campaign contributors and Monika's blow jobs took priority.
Good gawd, 9/11 provided the LAST OPTION. We had no choice. What would you have done? You've read my solution, what's yours? Attack only one of the Islamofascist states and pray the rest don't get involved? Or go all out and kick ass? In case you still don't get it, they are all over the ME, Africa, and parts of Asia. It takes more than just a piecemeal response to make a dent. We're being successful, much to the chagrin of Harry Reid and company, but there's still more ground to cover and Islamic zealots to kill. We can stablize Iraq and Afghanistan; even turn over the control of their infrastructure when they're ready, but the threat will not go away until they're all dead, or they realize that messing with the "Great Satan" isn't worth it, and worshiping peacefully would be a good idea.
hey man,
I dont think we will ever agree because I still see that you are counting Iraq as a country that attacked us. They never attacked us.
Hey man,
I'm a female, but be that as it may: Japan attacked us in WWII, not Germany or Italy, but we went to war with all three. Guess why? Because all three of them were aligned... just like many of the Islamic nations in the ME.
Wow, you people are far gone, I wish you all the best.
FTA
Hey Cliff,
GFY.
Buh bye, loser.
Tell you what, Anthony:
You seem like a nice kid, but a little weak on history and the overall picture of the Islamic threat, both 'militarily' and geopolitically. It's ok to have differing opinions, but the common denominator between you and all the other "anti-war", oops, I mean "anti- Iraq War, (omitting Afghanistan) advocates, is the total absence of a strong response and or retaliatory measure to erradicate the enemy and eliminate future threats. You have none. Period. When some of you are painted into a verbal corner with the fact that the terrorist threat is not just contained to one particular country in a particular region, you're at a loss to explain how you think we should handle that. Outside of more ineffectual 'diplomacy', that is.
When you come up with something that's
realistic and feasable, feel free to visit my website:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.org
And do yourself a favor: Don't listen to Cliff. He's a loser.
Good luck,
SFC MAC
Correction:
It's http://www.sfcmac.wordpress.com
This is my last post since I think we've all been beating a dead horse.....
1) No other states were aligned with Iraq...not even Syria which has/had the same political party (Bath)
2)There was not terrorism in Iraq before the war. Attacking Iraq beacuse of 911 makes as much sense as attacking Jordan or the UAE. They had nothing to do with it.
3) A strong response for attacking terrorism would have been to stay in Afghanistand until the job was done. If we would have done that then maybe all the soldiers and marines over there would be home now with their families, safe and sound. Unfortunately we wanted to "defend ourselves" from Iraq which posed no threat and had no real allies.
Ok as for that, I am done with this post..I wish you all the best as well...
--Anthony
Anthony you wrote...
Ok now for the crimes...I dont know Robin's bio but I am willing to bet he hasnt been in a life and death situation where everyone around him had lots of guns and lots of ammo. Sometimes you have to wait for a safe environment before you open your mouth. You dont want to be the next victim....or make your wife a widow and children fatherless
First of all, Robin is a she not a he. Whether or not I served in the military is irrelevant to this discussion. But your point is extrememly interesting... Are you saying that if you reported war crimes other members of the US Military would harm or kill you?
BTW when I wrote about "you" witnessing war crimes I was speaking of your cohorts in IVAW and your bud Clifton.
Hey Clifton - Your "FTA" comment shows that you have your head fully shoved up the Vietnam Winter Soldiers' asses. GFY
HAHA. You tell Cliff to prove he is telling the truth, when your "truth" is so formed by your preconcieved notions that you never allow anything except what you agree with to pass as truth?
Keep blogging about IVAW. You are driving our stats up.
Some of us joined to fight for ideals we stand for, not to be ordered around to do some old farts dirty work.
Maybe we should have known what the military is really all about. Since so many of us didn't realize that we would be used up and forgotten about when we got home IVAW is making sure to let other young people know.
These comments just prove our points about Truth in Recruiting. If someone wants to join the military to "protect freedom" I'll send them over to this site to read the comments so they can see how far from freedom the military teaches us to be. Like threating you'll shoot someone just because you don't agree with them. scrapiron really does/did serve to protect freedom.... Is this how you define personal courage or integrity? Sounds like more like blitzkreig. Is it even possible for any of you to sit back and look at what you are saying. This country wasn't founded on shutting people up just becasue they don't think the same way you do. Do you even see how much you sound like muslim fundamentalists who were offended by Mohhamed cartoons?
Too easy, too easy.
This ArmySGT is the same clown who posted at my blog one day. Hope it is that asshat Kokesh. Are you sure you want all the attention?
Show me some IVAW guys who aren't guilty of atleast one infraction in the military, and who have stories that can be verified. I've been exhaustively searching. At one point I found one dude at IVAW who admitted that some guys slipped by and were faking stories. Naturally, that guy has now been expunged.
Not a one of you clowns is honest. I don't like the VoteVets guys either, but atleast they have one foot in reality, unlike you clowns.
If you haven't seen the video of Kokesh getting schooled by Mattoon, you should. Kokesh has the intellectual capabilities of a warm lump of dog crap.
Wow, I just made the mistake of rereading what "ArmySGT" had to say, and it's clear there is no point debating these guys. They simply have no cognitive or reading comprehension abilities.
However, I would appreciate it you guys could tell me what happened to Richard Peters, who used to be here:
http://www.ivaw.org/user/370
I bet his absence has something to do with this comment:
Ok, yes it does seem to be "case closed" on this Scott Thomas fellow. People like him really get under my skin. The trouble with the antiwar movement is one of image, when losers like him spread elaborate lies it only weakens that image and the message is lost.
Army SGT - GFY. It's a good thing someone is driving the IVAW stats up since you only have 600 members out of 100's of thousands of Military Men and Women. You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up and bit you square in the ass. So keep proclaiming the pure reasons for IVAW's members faking claims of war crimes and the like. You are nothing more than a Winter Soldier Wannabee and will be laughed at when the history of the war in Iraq is written.
SFC Mac,
To verify my validity, you're more than welcome to look me up on AKO. It's not a common last name.
With all due respect, sergeant, I think that this entire thread, and your comments within it, do not suit with a professional bearing or the conduct expected from a noncommissioned officer.
Whatever your feelings about PFC Hicks and the organization he represents, there is no reason to vilify him and call him the names that you have done.
For you and others who are seizing on PFC Hick's statement about being 'retired', it is clear to me (and I would hope clear to anyone who has actually served), that PFC Hicks is joking-because there is no way anyone /can/ retire as a PFC. It is the same type of humor that has specialists referring to themselves as "Specialist Major of the Army" or Staff Sergeants to refer to themselves as a 'PV6'-because it is impossible and everyone who has raised their right hand and taken the oath knows it is impossible. All of my soldiers do stuff like that all the time. It's just kids clowning around.
I don't know if PFC Hicks is one hundred percent accurate about his service or not-I didn't serve with him. He was not my troop. But as a member of the Army, a fellow member of the Army, I think it is our duty to give him the benefit of the doubt until we can prove otherwise. SFC Mac, if you are still in, you have the ability to check that unit and find some people who have served with PFC Hicks. Ask them if he's telling the truth-and if he is in fact lying, please, for your fellow NCOs at /least/, express that statement more respectfully than you have. Show these people the bearing a noncommissioned officer is expected to uphold. Don't give these people more information to use against the Army, Sergeant First Class!
-SGT Coppa
Well Sgt Coppa, I am amazed that you can be so sedate and respectful on this blog after the attmpted slandering of the integrity of combat veterans and the issuing of edicts that you did on our blog here: https://www.blogger.com/
comment.g...828509990467381
When discussing bearing and fact finding, perhaps you should bear in mind the following idiom: Physician, heal thyself.
Sgt Coppa - with all due respect, you are completely and totally off base here. Not one person is ragging on Hicks' because of his service. What we are commenting on is his failure to tell the truth about the very men and women who are now fighting in Iraq and elsewhere. His comments denigrate their service and integrity and frankly I'm embarrassed that you would defend something like that.
As far as his "retired" quip - whether or not it was tongue in cheek is irrelevant. This man volunteered for service, decided it wasn't his cup of tea and took the CO route AFTER committing some infractions that could have led to a court-martial. Then he joined an organization whose sole purpose is to undermine the soldiers by way of encouraging resistance, shirking duties and going AWOL all under the mantle of "supporting the troops". So get off your high horse of indignation at the comments here and direct them at a man who takes a crap on everything you claim to support. And I mean that with all due respect for your service.
And let us by all means not forget that HE STARTED THIS. Holy crap people. HE IS THE ONE WHO FIRST WROTE A LETTER TO ME. So, Sgt, when a combat veterans slimes another combat veteran, why is it you jump in to support the one who got out on a Conscientous Objector status instead of the one who served 12 years before getting out dude to injury? That's what I would like answered. The fact that he is blatently lying apparently doesn't phase her even a little bit.
Thus Spake Ortner:
He sent that letter to you, or posted it on his website and then you started flaming him all over the blogosphere? Maybe I'm missing some intel that you and your buddies seem to have here, but it looks to me like some PFC wrote an article on his own website, which admittedly is a little out there. While he's definitely on point on LTs getting Bronze Stars just for showing up, he seems to have extended it to the enlisted ranks as well, as well as adding some invective which is certainly not deserved by the entire spectrum of NCOs. However, something to remember is that junior enlisted judge all of us by the few examples they see. He may well have had some truly bad NCOs, and thus extends it to the rest of us. It's not right, but neither is it right to be firing at a PFC for it.
I will also state here, though hopefully it was not your intent to make a blanket statement regarding COs, that I have met many fine people and soldiers who have taken the CO route. Some have gone into combat to help their buddies, simply refusing to fire their own weapon. Two of my buddies, medics, are COs. They perform their mission well, and may have saved many lives. (I'm not going to categorically state they have or haven't, because it's hard to say who would have died without treatment or who wouldn't, and I really don't want that nitpicked) They just don't fire their weapon at other human beings. I can respect those people, and I do respect those people. I personally am not a CO-I believe that sometimes it is necessary to bring death to other individuals. But that doesn't mean that those guys are any less because they disagree with me. Again, hopefully it was not your intent to disparage all COs.
I just don't think PFC Hicks is blatantly or intentionally lying. I don't even think he's lying at all. I think he's fuzzy on some stuff, and not very detail-oriented-but does that really matter? I believe that people he knew died, people who were in many ways his friends and that his service has turned him against war. Those are the salient points-you or I might disagree with him on some of them, but I don't think he deserves to be vilified for his position. I can understand the desire to do so, I just don't think it's called for.
And yes, since you've self-identified as NCOs, I am going to call you to a higher standard than someone who's self-identified as a PFC. It's just how it works.
Sgt Coppa - it would be in your best interest to do a little reading and research on a subject before you start defending them... Google Clifton Hicks and read what he's had to say about all the military and (gasp) that includes you. If you still defend him, then you are not what you claim to be.
I give up. There's no point discussing this with Sgt Coppa. I'm apparently engaged in a lynch mob, while he quietly posted a letter. And he's not lying but fuzzy on details. Comfusing a Drill Sergeant for your Best Friend seems a bit more than just fuzzy memory to me.
Pretty obviously you're going to defend him regardless and you've made up your mind, so I won't waste time responding to it anymore.
Whether it be demolishing their homes with our tanks, handcuffing and publicly beating them in front of their families, destroying their livestock and burning down their places of business, kid-napping entire male populations of villages to be tortured in secret prisons, refusing basic medical care to mothers with dying children, cheering from roof-tops while entire apartment complexes were leveled by C-130 gun ships, or even covering up the wrongful deaths of local civilians. I speak not of rumors or of hear-say, I speak of what I have seen with my own eyes, and what I have done with my own hands.
---Clifton Hicks, soldier exemplar who shouldn't be picked on.
"I speak not of rumors or of hear-say, I speak of what I have seen with my own eyes, and what I have done with my own hands."
Well in that case, you should be speaking to a judge at your court martial for what you have described are indeed war crimes and your lack of effor to stop them and/or your participation in them is enough to send you to Leavenworth for a long, long time. Oh, and "I was just following orders" and "I was afraid to rock the boat" didn't work at Neuremburg so don't expect it to hold any water with us either.
Ramey also accused Hicks' son, Clifton Hicks, 24, of brandishing a gun and threatening to kill him - a claim that Robert and Clifton Hicks ``adamantly deny,'' said the Hicks' attorney, Jon M. Babineau.
Ahhhh. So threatening Iraqs: bad. Brandishing a gun at and threatening a fellow American: good.
Mmmmm. Oh, and just for the record Hicks: You tried to paint us as "National Guard lifers". I had ten years in on active before you even walked into the recruiter's office. After I went Guard, I had another four years on active duty. In fact, I have taken craps that had more time in service than you. And I've been in more combat zones than you and most of your IVAW cohorts, so pretty much anything you say other than a clarification of which contradicting statements that you made are true is just prattle.
cock
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