Warning, Haloscan has a 2,967 character limit after which comments are cut off
I know Canada is a wonderful country to live in, but we cannot supplant entire family trees from India to Canada in the name of compassionate immigration.
Why not. Canada was populated by supplanting entire family trees from Europe.
Historical relativism? What do you want me to do, Robert, bend time and space?
I don't know.
From an economic standpoint I'd agree with you that the family members tend to be an extra drag on our social net. With an aging population we should, from an economic standpoint, only be accepting younger workers and refusing to allow their elderly parents entry.
At the same time however, doing so puts added stress onto the young workers and makes it more difficult for them to smoothly transition into Canadian culture. In some cultures its unthinkable for the parents to live in one continent and the children in another.
Perhaps there could be a way of limiting which family members would be allowed to sponsor? Say direct blood relatives? Parents, children, brothers/sisters? Or only you are only allowed to sponsor so many?
But something needs to be done at least, with a backlog of a million and many waiting on the lists for literally years, its unfair. (I know a quadrilingual -including French and English- college professor who has been waiting for more than 3 years on the list).
The family reunification part of the Canadian immigration policy is ridiculous. It should apply to adult children (as minors get to accompany you automatically)and parents only. Any brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc should have to apply as any other immigrant would. Yes you can give them extra weighting because they have a family support structure already in place here... but they shouldn't be rubber stamped in just because.
Stop subscribing to the 'I gots mine, sucks to be you' brand of conservatism.
By the way, this isn't even the most odious part of the Clownservative's plan.
The changes would:
* Allow the immigration minister to reject an applicant already deemed admissible by immigration officers.
* Allow the minister to set limits on what types of immigrants — "by category or otherwise" — can have their applications processed each year.
* Require an otherwise ineligible person who wants to immigrate on humanitarian grounds to already be in Canada for their application to be processed.
And so, the real battle for the future begins.
I am involved in the health care system, and I can tell you that in Toronto, the number of nonspeaking elderly parents of recent immigrants to Canada (who barely speak english themselves) is incredible. They are not taking a percent or two of resources in the health care system, but MUCH more.
I think that bringing in parents should be markedly restricted to people who have been here a long time, and are willing to pay for the parental expenses.
Further, any person who came here by sponorship should not be permitted to sponsor anyone.
Aunts, uncles and cousins? Totally out of the question!
At the same time however, doing so puts added stress onto the young workers and makes it more difficult for them to smoothly transition into Canadian culture.
I think it's a little ridiculous to suggest we need to move entire villages to Canada. I have known first-hand how difficult it is just to move to different cities in Canada without family and friends. That doesn't mean I want to uproot my whole family because I'm lonely. As for transition into Canadian culture, it seems counter-productive to transplant India to Canada to make them feel more at home. In fact, total immersion is probably better. Brampton has become a kind of Indian state inside of Canada, instead of just an immigrant community.
And then there are immigrants backlogged behind all those people who shouldn't be.
Robert, I don't know what you're talking about with your sarcastic remark about "gots mine". The truth is that the problems facing immigrants are the problems facing millions of Canadians who relocate all the time.
They are not taking a percent or two of resources in the health care system, but MUCH more.
Of course they are. And it's worse in Brampton, particularly the elderly Sikh parents. I think we could make some drastic changes to social security to protect ourselves during this transition time. We are too liberal with our socialized system.
Robert..how terrible that there should be some restrictions on immigration!
I mean, if there was not massive unrestricted immigration , where would the left find all the votes that keeps its 'populist' brand of idiocy afloat in Canada?
Surely not from the more clear thinking among us here, that is for certain..
Your typical leftist type always wants the immigrants to buy into their schemes, but they want us to pay for it.
Care to comment on the small villages in India and Pakistan which have virtually been denuded of people, all who have immigrated to Canada, claiming to be from the same family?
Those of my ancestors who were immigrants came here solo, and took partners from each other or the local indigenous population. They didn't bring their parents, their grandparents, their brothers, their sisters, their cousins, aunts, uncles, next-door neighbors, their puppies and the babysitter.
Immigration makes sense for young people looking to build a life for themselves and their descendants. It does not make sense for entire villages to relocate to anywhere, not just here (in case that comment was for real, whish I suspect it was not).
Chimera, exactly.
Raphael, I don't want to sound condescending so I apologize if I do (sometimes typing words gives the wrong impression).
You may have moved from city to city in Canada alone, but let me assure you that it is nothing compared to being uprooted and moving across oceans to a country where you must struggle with a second language every minute of every day. Even if you speak it well, depending on the speed someone speaks or the tone of voice or even the background noise level you may become lost and then simply smile glumly and nod because you're too ashamed or afraid to admit that you can't follow the conversation.
Total immersion is stressful. It grinds at you every day unless you have strong support from friends/family. Living in a foreign country is no easy matter.
Besides that, I can understand why many people want to be close to their parents in the later stages of their parent's lives. Flying 13-14 hours to try to see your father before he dies is rough. Deciding between flying out to see a family member who may (or may not) be on their death bed and saving that money is heart-wrenching.
That's why I can understand bringing in very close relatives. I'm not advocating uprooting villages, I'm advocating having a heart when dealing with these people, but not going overboard with our sympathies.
Well, I can understand what you're saying S.O. But, like Chimera said, we should be allowing immediate family members, not the whole village. I think the Conservatives are cognizant of humane immigration with perhaps parents and children. But the whole extended family is what gets me.
I don't want to sound nasty or anything, but I once met a Chinese man who told me straight out that he was the "chosen one" to get Canadian citizenship and start trying to bring over his whole family, of whom he listed off about 20. I've met others like him, only less overt about their reason for being in Canada.
Yes, and you find chinese girls who will have 'fake' marriages to obtain citizenship as well. I'm not saying that abuses don't exist, but they will exist no matter what system we put in place.
But I think we are essentially agreeing in that only close relatives should be allowed to be sponsored. I just think we are phrasing our concerns in two different ways.
Immigration is not only meant for the benefit of the individual immigrant, but also for the benefit of the host country. If not, then all of us existing taxpayers can just be labeled 'sucker' if we only consider the needs of the immigrant and not our own.
With such a long line of people wanting to get in, Canada has the luxury to pick and choose the people we want--skilled trades, specific professions currently in demand, people with money to invest, etc. We should take advantage of that. That's not being heartless, that's doing what makes sense for Canada, the country that is agreeing to accept these people.
Accepting one skilled immigrant is great for Canada. Accepting one skilled immigrant, along with 2 or 3 of his immediate family, is also great for the immigrant as well as Canada. Accepting one skilled immigrant, along with 15 to 20 other family members who will contribute little (or negative) to society just makes us all suckers.
I would agree there should be restrictions on who can enter under the family class. I would also agree that only the skilled immigrant that qualifies on his own should be able to sponsor others.
I don't want my excessive tax dollars wasted paying for the health care of millions of elderly people who just showed up under some extended family plan and who never have or will contribute anything significant to the Canadian tax system themselves.
Call that heartless if you want, I don't really care. I call it common sense.
Accepting one skilled immigrant, along with 15 to 20 other family members who will contribute little (or negative) to society just makes us all suckers.
You have to love the inconsistencies of conservatives. First they complain that immigrants are stealing their jobs. Then they complain that immigrants aren't stealing their jobs.
but I once met a Chinese man who told me straight out that he was the "chosen one" to get Canadian citizenship and start trying to bring over his whole family, of whom he listed off about 20.
So what's wrong with that. Family is obviously very important to this man. I would have thought that someone who subscribes to an ideology that purportedly thinks family is extremely important would applaud his determined efforts to build a strong family unit in this country.
You should read this, Raffie. While it's about America, much of it applies to the urban legends surrounding Canadian immigrants as well.
"Family is obviously very important to this man."
So why doesn't he stay with his family, then?
Dave Hodson is right -- immigration is supposed to benefit both the immigrant and his new country. The purpose of immigration is to start a new life. Not bring the old one (and its attendant problems) with you.
Immigrants should be allowed to bring their spouses (if they have them) and their minor children. All other relatives need to apply for immigration status on their own ticket. That includes parents, adult children, and all satellite relatives. And puppies. And babysitters.
Robert said... You have to love the inconsistencies of conservatives. First they complain that immigrants are stealing their jobs. Then they complain that immigrants aren't stealing their jobs.
You have to love how Liberals completely miss the point. It's not about anybody stealing anybody's job. It's about boatloads of people coming here and sucking on our social services and infrastructure while never contributing to the services they're using. With an aging population as it is, the last thing Canada needs is to import our immigrants' parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents.
Commenting by HaloScan
