littlefoxling has a post on this, a parody of them by emunahpshuta.

also, see my comment re theshmuz.com
this rabbi says the reason we wont be frummer even if we saw a miracle is because the egyptians saw 10 miracles before they let the jews go. no wait, those 10 werent just stam miracles. there was the FACT of the giant frog that split into many frogs, etc.

only problem with his logic is the assumption that there were 10 makkos.
what if there werent...?
happywithhislot | 11.19.07 - 10:15 pm | #

What do you mean what if there weren't? It's obvious they existed. The Torah says so!
Skeptodox | Homepage | 11.19.07 - 10:26 pm | #

i think the shmuz.com is proof the mesorah proof is bogus.

we can now clearly see people will accept and believe the stupidest things.
happywithhislot | 11.20.07 - 12:14 am | #

Happy, the rabbi is understating the case. 10 makkos were just in Egypt. At the Red Sea there were, depending on whom you believe, lots more. And still the Egyptians kept on coming.
Ichabod Chrain | 11.20.07 - 12:24 am | #

These folks aren't searching for "Truth" they're searching for confirmation of what they already believe.
LubabNoMore | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 12:51 am | #

Agreed, but their standards of proof are nonexistent when it comes to their search. They accept poshut faulty logic as the word of god, and believe that their rabbi holds the keys to refuting evolution, archeology, geology, biology, biblical criticism, and a myriad of other sciences.

I'll post synopses of these lectures in the next couple of days so you can see for yourself how nutty these people are.
Skeptodox | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 1:11 am | #

> These folks aren't searching for "Truth" they're searching for confirmation of what they already believe.

I think that is the core of the issue and why most skeptics get frustrated. Skeptics are NOT the audience of the kiruv speachs. The Kiruv speaches are aimed at people who are looking for a reason to believe and want some validation to those beliefs.

Most people woudl rather not grapple with these issues day in and day out so instead they find some kiruvy guy who will give them an answer and conclude it with "trust me I spent the time researching this so you don't have to". After this they can say to themselves "I talked to an expert and he is ok with this". They then move on with what they feel are more important parts of their lives
Orthomonkey | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 10:23 am | #

Right on the money, Orthomonkey.
Skeptodox | Homepage | 11.20.07 - 11:07 am | #

hah! orthomonkey. do you have a cute little top-hat? =D

oh oh! examples of "shameful logic" from the clowns, please! especially in the form of youtube videos.
dangerousmathematician | 11.21.07 - 4:39 pm | #