document.write("

The main problem with \"eleph\" as a troop is that it cannot be used consistently as such. For example, if you drop the 1000's in the counting of the shvatim, it does not add up to 603 (elephs). One would have to posit that the totals were added later. And that seems to be much more problematic from a hashkafic pov.

(BTW, the best treatment that I've seen explaining eleph as a troop is in The Miracles of Exodus by Colin Humphreys.)
zach | 09.06.07 - 1:08 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ There is a pretty extensive conversation in Vetus Testamentum over a few issues in 1999 about whether and how to reinterpret the word eleph. Your concern is addressed there.

(And one of the major articles on the subject in Vetus Testamentum is by Humphreys.)
Skeptodox | Homepage | 09.06.07 - 6:37 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ As is common in much ancient literature, the Tanach is full of number inflation. A good example is the war of the the 11 tribes vs. Benyanin in Shoftim 20: the text says that the Israelite army was 400,000 strong. That would make it more than twice as big as both opposed armies combined at Gettysburg, and more than twice as big as both sides at Waterloo. Yet it appears that the likely entire population of Israel was probably under 400,000 males.
Resh Lakish | 09.07.07 - 7:31 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ One could argue that 600,000 is chosen for historical significance: it is shishim ribo. 60 is an historical number, denoting magnitude; 10,000 also so.
Resh Lakish | 09.07.07 - 7:32 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Good point. From a traditional perspective is it possible to believe that the numbers were intentionally inflated because that was the norm at the time?
Skeptodox | Homepage | 09.07.07 - 7:50 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ >Good point. From a traditional perspective is it possible to believe that the numbers were intentionally inflated because that was the norm at the time?

Which is something I have always said. As RK said 60, or 6000 or 60,000 were numbers used to mean \"alot\" . Ofcourse, then how do you solve the dilema withthe census.
holy hyrax | 09.07.07 - 12:22 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Why would God need to inflate the numbers in his book? Whom was he trying to impress? Or was he just trying to boost sales?
Whatever you do, don't tell Oprah, she may take the Bible off her recommended list (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0104061jamesfrey1.html)...
Nate | 09.07.07 - 12:32 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Well, its not God inflating the numbers, but more of that is how an army was described in those days.
holy hyrax | 09.07.07 - 12:41 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ just wondering! if my motivation were to seek the truth (most would agree that it is a so-called \"Good\" motivation). Would i be allowed to conclude that probably the exodus did not occur at all? Or at least that the way it is described in the Torah is not true?
Most probably your friend Daniel would have a problem with that.
chasid kofer | 09.16.07 - 3:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ According to some estimates, the construction of the Great Pyramid alone requires three million laborers. So maybe the figure of 600,000 isn't so rediculous after all.
Anonymous | 09.18.07 - 11:40 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Wikipedia has a pretty thorough article on pyramid construction. The highest estimates actually seem to be 300,000-400,000, while \"a construction management study (testing) carried out by the firm Daniel, Mann, Johnson, & Mendenhall in association with Mark Lehner and other Egyptologists, estimates that the total project required an average workforce of 14,567 people and a peak workforce of 40,000. Without the use of pulleys, wheels, or iron tools, they surmise the Great Pyramid was completed from start to finish in approximately 10 years.\"

600,000 is completely rediculous, for a multitude of reasons.
Skeptodox | Homepage | 09.18.07 - 3:02 pm | #

Commenting by HaloScan

$\"\"$ ");