Big Blue Wave's Comments
"...I read up on the scientific racialism that fuelled the Nazis’ killing spree."
First thing you need to do is get rid of that term, "scientific," as you have used it here. There was, is, and never will be anything "scientific" about racism or racialism.
"You never read of a feminist claiming that a mother has a responsibility towards a fetus."
Unless a woman has already given birth, she is not yet a mother. And why should she feel "responsible" for something she does not want? If a woman wants to birth a child, that's another thing altogether -- that is a responsibility to which she agrees. But you cannot and will never be allowed to force anyone to assume a responsibility she does not feel and that she does not want.
"...have no interest in that debate about the fetus."
Of course not. Why would we? It's people like you who try to place a value on something that holds no value for people like me. It's like trying to convince me that the queen of spades is worth ten dollars. Maybe to you, it's worth that, but not to me. Not even close.
What a fetus is to me is nothing. What it is to a woman who intends to birth it and raise a child is another thing entirely. It's personal. It's private. It's individual. And it's not up to you or anyone else to make that decision on my behalf!
"That sense of responsibility comes from the belief that human beings deserve respect..."
And there is one of the sticking points in your argument. You like to maintain that "respect" must be given without hesitation and without qualification. But most people do not give respect without it's being earned. It is not automatic; it is a gift. You may not demand it of me; only I can choose to give it, and to whom, and when, and for what reason.
"We have completely lost the sense that human nature is intrinsically valuable."
I think I need for you to clarify that. Do you really mean "human nature?" Or do you mean "human life?" Or do you mean "human existence?" Or something else?
And are you using "value" as a synonym for "dignity?" Because they really are quite different things, you know.
"But this involves such a major challenge to everyday ideas that that it’d be hard to imagine anyone doing this spontaneously."
Oh, don't be such a snob. Abstract thought is pretty much endemic to the human experience. Some people are just slicker at expressing their thoughts, is all.
"...the whole purpose of thinking is to know the truth about reality, whatever that reality happens to be..."
Well, if that's the only reason you think, that's your problem, isn't it? Personally, I have lots of other reasons for thinking. And most of those reasons have nothing to do with deciding who is "moral" and who is "worthy of consideration" and who is not.
"But we’re not programmed to remain in ignorance. That’s human nature."
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. But I will say that on a personal level, I have fought "being progammed" all my life, beginning when I was learning to talk and run (before walking, note), continuing to when I learned to read before I started school of any kind, and right up to today and beyond, when I look at something presented to me as a finished product and say to myself, "Why?"
The Nazis so-called "scientific" racialism was not scientific at all. There is no superiority of one race over another. That must be unequivically stated. No, superiority doesn't give the right to kill, but there isn't racial superiority anyway.
Suzanne, if you don't stand up for racial equality, the pro-aborts will use the stigma of racism to tar the whole pro-life movement. Please be a hero and stand up for racial equality.
Thank you.
CeeCee I'm a little hurt that you would assume that I oppose racial equality.
"Scientific racism" is the historical term applied to the academic effort to prove that whites are superior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Sci...ientific_racism
The whole post is a defense of reason and presumes that all people are equal.
"'Scientific racism' is the historical term applied to the academic effort to prove that whites are superior."
"Applied" by whom? Nobody with any real credentials.
Scrap it. You're only aiding and abetting.
The Retreat of Scientific Racism
Changing Concepts of Race in Britain and the United States between the World Wars
Elazar Barkan
Claremont Graduate School, California
http://www.cambridge.org/us/
cata...isbn=0521458757
OMG! Cambridge University Press used the term scientific racism! They're aiding and abetting!
I won't "scrap" a term that's used by people who oppose the term to discuss it.
Fine. The fallout is all yours, then.
I think Suzanne did mean well. She assumed that everyone would know she wasn't supporting racism. But I've seen too much of the world to assume everyone knows that or even wants to know that.
If you don't make a strong stand against racism, there are those (not necessarily me, but lots of people) who will read a racist message into it. I was trying to warn her of that. Sorry Suzanne if I hurt your feelings. It wasn't intended.
But there are others who will intend it if you don't watch out. I know, I've seen this stuff. If they don't like you, for whatever reason, that's one thing they'll do, falsely accuse you of racism. If you quote a racist idea, you have to state loudly that you disagree with it. If you don't, someone will accidentaly-on purpose misinterpret it as you approving of racism. This is especially so if they have some interest in stigmatizing you, which they will if you're a pro-lifer. It's unfair, I know, but that's the way the world is out there.
Janus says: Unless a woman has already given birth, she is not yet a mother.
Sorry Janus, but I beg to differ with you. Pregnant women are mothers, even if they haven't given birth yet. This is biological fact. Someone is the mom of that young one in the womb.
You must have a hard life if it ticks you off to hear of pregnant women refered to as mothers. People call them mothers all the time. Do you go through life being angry because the rest of the world defines words differently than you do?
What will you do when you get in power? Jail people who call pregnant women mothers? You better not, as it would show how undemocratic and anti-free speech you are.
Ceecee
I refuse to act all apologetically like that.
Because accusing people of racism the way some do is a dishonest tactic.
It should be allowed to happen to show who is being dishonest.
I've denounced white supremacy *countless times* on this blog, implicitly in my comparing it to feminist supremacy.
So anyone who reads my words knows I'm not a racist.
But there's always that crowd of people looking for that "gotcha" moment.
They're the ones being dishonest.
So I say let them make the accusation, then show how dishonest THEY are being.
If they'll stigmatize you for that, they'll stigmatize you for anything. Can't be helped. You simply have to go on. I will not bend in the face of stupidity.
"Sorry Janus, but I beg to differ with you."
You're allowed. And so am I. You see it one way and I see it another, and if a pregnant woman wants to call herself a mother before she's actually given birth, that's up to her.
But I won't call her that, because that's not how I define a mother (noun: a woman who has given birth to a child). The same way I don't call an engaged-to-be-married woman a wife. Because she's not. Yet.
A mother is a woman who is raising a child. This can be done in the womb, her body caring for the child, if you will. A mother can also be an adoptive mother who is raising an adopted child. In that case the mother might not ever have given birth either. If fact, many infertile women are mothers because they adopted children. Although these women never gave birth, they are mothers none the less.
Ceecee, if a woman only has a fetus in her womb, and no other children, she is not yet a mother. That which is in her uterus is being incubated, not raised.
Terminology is becoming more and more sloppy all the time. No wonder people cannot communicate with one another. They insist on making stuff up as they go, and expect everyone else to read their intentions without explanation.
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