Big Blue Wave's Comments
What is a crisis pregnancy?
S.Q., a "crisis pregnancy" is any pregnancy wherein wingnuts can direct you to a special "crisis pregnancy center" to yell at you for being such a dirty slut for giving your hymen to someone other than your designated owner..er..husband.
Oh, OK that seems reasonable...
Every life does indeed count, as the woman from Feminists for Life discovered. I pray her bold witness continues on... As I pray the spirit of the March for Life continues on and is taken to the streets of our towns daily after it ends in D.C. To end abortion, we have to create the same kind of social unrest that was created to end Segregation in the South. That simple. And that hard... Incidentally, if anyone out there is looking for a Campaign 2012 -- already declared -- presidential candidate with a Consistent Life Ethic, then look no further than www.voteforjoe.com Also, the time to get behind the campaign is: now.
At crisis pregnancy centres, a pregnant woman can receive something that the culture of death won't give her: a caring person willing to listen, willing to help you through this difficult situation to preserve life, not kill it.
The message of the culture of death is to kill. The message of the crisis pregnancy centre is to respect life.
The message of the "crisis pregnancy center" is to lie to women and yell at them for having sex.
What with this "culture of death" crap?
Can you back your assertions about pregnancy resource centers. Have you ever visited on of these centers as a pregnant woman? Do you have anything beyond ancedotes from political websites or biased reports disguised as consumer reports?
Have you ever visited one of these centers or have you read any of the articles on these centers from more neutral sources such as Time Magazine or do you only believe what pro-choice organizations tell you?
"The message of the "crisis pregnancy center" is to lie to women and yell at them for having sex."
That abortion kills a human being is not a lie. It is an empirical fact.
They don't get that information at the abortion clinic.
"They don't get that information at the abortion clinic."
Of course they don't because it's not true.
Gorgan, I have already shown you in a prior post that science and embryology tells us that a new human life begins at conception, you can not choose to ignore this. The issue isn't "Is it human?" the issue is, "Is it a person and entitled to legal rights?"
"science and embryology tells us that a new human life begins at conception, you can not choose to ignore this."
I am not ignoring it I am disagreeing with it.
And the real issue is: Is it an individual being? and the answer is NO.
"I am not ignoring it I am disagreeing with it. "
That's like disagreeing with the law of gravity.
It's not something you disagree with.
You're denying it.
"It's not something you disagree with."
You're trying to tell me what I'm allowed to agree with or not?
Gorgon
I'm telling you what is and is not logical to disagree with.
Like if you said: "I disagree with the law of gravity."
Well tough! The law of gravity is the truth whether you agree with it or not.
It's the same thing with the statement that the fetus is a human being.
There's nothing to disagree with. It's a biological fact. It's a proven truth.
You don't get it or you don't want to get it, I don't know which.
I decide for myself what it logical to me, not you. And to me, "fetus as human being" is NOT LOGICAL.
You think what you want. I don't care. I think what I want. You do care.
Why?
How have we as a society become so nonsensical. That is, we now define whether it is a person, or not, by a location. That is, when it's in the mother's womb it is not. But when it's outside the womb, it is... Incidentally, if any of you out there is looking for a Campaign 2012 presidentical candidate who not only thinks it's a person, but has a Consistent Life Ethic across the board -- look no further than www.voteforjoe.com
"I decide for myself what it logical to me,"
Logic and reality don't work that way.
Reality exists and operates on certain premises whether you agree with it or not.
You can't argue with it.
"I think what I want. You do care."
Because you're here on my blog making statements that are erroneous, and so I correct them.
If you don't want to debate or have people contradict you, this is not the right place for you.
Joe
When I consider the very basic things I have to explain on this blog, it boggles the mind.
"we now define whether it is a person, or not, by a location."
It's actually not about defining it as anything, it's about whether or not it is wanted. And it has nothing to do with location it has everything to do with an unwanted imposition on the personal property of the woman whose body it has invaded.
Get it outside her body and have it develop someplace else and I'll bet no woman would object, even the ones who would have an abortion.
It's not about the fetus, it's about imposing on someone without permission.
"Logic and reality don't work that way."
When it's YOU defining them to me, it does. Your definitions are not my definitions, so you cannot tell me that I am wrong and your are right because we are not talking about the same thing.
"When it's YOU defining them to me, it does. Your definitions are not my definitions, "
Gorgon, they're not "my definitions". There's no "my" here.
Just reality. Which you're denying.
"My" definition of gravity, if it corresponds to reality, is THE definition. You can't argue with it. If I say "Gravity is the force of attraction that makes objects fall to the ground on Earth". That's not "my" definition.
That's reality.
If you don't want to back up your assertions, that is your affair. But we're talking about public policy, law, culture-- things we have in common.
These are not entirely *individual* things.
That's why we have to use *common* language and ideas. If you happen to not agree that the fetus is NOT a human being, that is certainly your affair, but you can't argue my thesis-- based on common ideas-- with your *personal* definitions.
I'm not interested in your personal opinions that you don't want to argue.
You don't want to argue about the fetus? Fine.
But in the face of my assertion-- that the fetus is a human being-- that it's a reality-- your "it's my opinion" argument doesn't apply.
It's completely irrelevant.
I don't care about your opinion. I care about the truth. The truth is the fetus is a human being.
If you don't want to argue truth, then don't.
I don't care about your opinion. Your "it's my opinion" stance doesn't make public policy.
Facts and reality do.
I want to talk facts and reality.
Not make-believe opinions about the fetus.
"It's not about the fetus, "
We're making it about the fetus.
Ignore the debate if you will.
The fetus is a human being. That's a biological fact.
All human beings have rights.
The law should recognize the rights of human beings.
"I don't think so" is not a counter-argument. It's simply copping out of the debate. You almost never want to back up what you say. Probably because you can't.
Suzanne,
That's the bottom line point: It's a human being. That simple.
I know. Sometimes it needs to be said simply. Sometimes in a more elaborate fashion.
We need both kinds of statements.
"Gorgon, they're not "my definitions". There's no "my" here."
I have no difficulty with your definition of what gravity is but I do have a problem when you define a fetus as a human being and stop trying to focaing confuse the focaing issue.
"Fetus as human being" is YOUR definition it is not mine and your assertion that it is the truth is just a matter of your OPINION not mine. Stick to that and leave bloody gravity out of it.
"If you don't want to argue truth, then don't."
First we would have to agree on a definition of what truth is which in the matter of a fetus we clearly don't.
"Your "it's my opinion" stance doesn't make public policy."
I'm not interested in making public policy I'm only interested in being left alone to live my own life in whatever fashion I want without being interfered with every step of the way by people like you who think they have a god given mandate to tell everyone else how to live.
"All human beings have rights."
Is a woman a human being? What rights does she have over her own body?
"We're making it about the fetus."
But you can't do that without the willing cooperation from those of us who are making it about the personal and private owndership of your own body. Your fetus in your body? Enjoy. In MY body? Get it the hell out of here.
"The law should recognize the rights of human beings."
The law DOES. It recognizes that a woman cannot be forced to give control of her body over to anyone else for any purpose whatsoever.
Once again I am confused by these "rights".
Until they are agreed upon by some governing body and written into law, no one has rights.
These are not magical things floating about the universe, if they were, there wouldn't be any cause for "Declarations" thereof.
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