Big Blue Wave's Comments
You seem very angry today Suzanne.
I know that it can be hurtful when pro-choicers mock your arguments. But it would behoove you to acknowledge that most people who are passionate about the abortion issue - on both sides of the fence - have given a lot of thought to their decisions. I am pro-choice as are all the people I work with and I don't know one of them who hasn't struggled with the morality of the issue.
Personally I love babies and I would love to have one. It hurts me to see these pictures, whether or not they are accurate. But when I look at the bigger picture I know that I'm on the right side, with the same certainty that you know you're on the right side. In the end, a woman has to be able to choose. And while I don't know if I would choose abortion should I get pregnant right now, I want it to be one of my choices. I don't want to be trapped.
The other thing I wanted to comment about was your crack about lefties and vandalism. While I don't condone what this person did to the sign, pro-choicers are not the only unthinking vandals in this debate. I work in a clinic and I have seen a lot of vandalism from the other side, a lot more costly than this one sign. Broken locks, broken windows, spraypainting all over the building, etc. None of it is a good thing - not from pro-lifers or pro-choicers - but to imply that this is only a problem coming from our side of the debate is just incorrect.
In the end, a woman has to be able to choose.
Is the price of that baby's life worth it?
I can get that people don't value a 6-week embryo: they do not consider life to be intrinsically value and worthy of protection. But 27-week-old baby is another story. I'm sure the mom was told all kinds of horrible things that made her think she'd "have" to abort because doctors sometimes overdramatize: they have the "clinical" information to go by, not necessarily the real world experience of loving a disabled child. What kind of choice is that?
That baby turned out to have minor malformations that could have probably been corrected, and even if they couldn't so what? Look at that face. When I look at that face, I want to pick up that baby and give him a hug. There's something about having had a baby that makes you connect to other babies. You want to pick them up and tell them everything is okay.
He died for the sake of the mom's choice. Was it worth it? Was his life worth the fact the mom was spared the inconvenience of taking care of him? Because really, that's the real justification for abortion, not the "my body, my choice" mantra-- she carried him for 27 weeks,and I suspect she would have carried him to 38 weeks. It's really about the power to kill people you don't want in your life because they keep you down. After all, past 25 weeks, you can just have an induction and not bother to go about making sure the baby has the potassium chloride injection. There are people willing to adopt that baby. But abortionists make sure the baby is dead. Once the baby is outside the mom's womb, it's not about her "body" any more, right? If it were *only* about her body, she wouldn't care one way or the other about the baby being alive or dead. He's gone from her body, end of discussion. But the mom cares very much about the baby being dead because she doesn't want to deal with him. She doesn't want to have to do the whole medical thing, the doctor's visits, the surgeries, the therapists, etc. She thinks being disabled means having no quality of life. She thinks it's "cruel" to bring such a child into the world. A nice pretext to not have to confront the challenge of raising a kid who's imperfect.
The other thing I wanted to comment about was your crack about lefties and vandalism. While I don't condone what this person did to the sign, pro-choicers are not the only unthinking vandals in this debate.
You're right. But it's only natural that we right-wingers do it, because we're the fascists with no respect for anyone's rights. Left-wingers are supposed to be tolerant, open-minded and respectful. (Said tongue in cheek).
"The baby's mouth was open.
That suggests to me that the baby suffered anguish..."
Interesting. It suggests to me that the baby died with it's mouth open - I can't imagine how you'd get more from it than that.
"I'm sure the mom was told all kinds of horrible things that made her think she'd 'have' to abort because doctors sometimes overdramatize"
You are completely guessing here. You have no idea what the doctors told her.
"But the mom cares very much about the baby being dead because she doesn't want to deal with him. She doesn't want to have to do the whole medical thing, the doctor's visits, the surgeries, the therapists, etc. She thinks being disabled means having no quality of life. She thinks it's 'cruel' to bring such a child into the world."
You don't know anything about what this woman wants. You put forth all of these "she wants" statements, but really - you don't know. You are just guessing...
"Was his life worth the fact the mom was spared the inconvenience of taking care of him?"
Absolutely. Given the alternative, I think abortion is a justified decision.
I know a couple that, now into their 60's, still have to care for their severely disabled son. He's now 34 and wasn't supposed to live past 10. This couple have had to wipe their son's bum for 34 years. They literally do everything for him.
Their lives were forever changed - and while they might be happy to care for their son this way I wouldn't want to force that life on anyone. Instead of 3 lives being ruined if they would have aborted the child they could have enjoyed life much more - and that is MORE than worth it in my mind.
Oh, and by the way - I have 2 young kids (3 and 4) and the pictures of the aborted 27 week old fetus is VERY disturbing to me.
I ~do~ have a heart and can see your point - I just happen to think the life of the woman carrying the fetus is MUCH more important than the ~potential~ life of the fetus.
Interesting. It suggests to me that the baby died with it's mouth open - I can't imagine how you'd get more from it than that.
Why would this baby have his mouth open? He does need it to breathe? Plus he had an injection of potassium chloride driven into heart. Don't you think that hurts?
You are completely guessing here. You have no idea what the doctors told her.
Through my readings, I know what often happens.
You don't know anything about what this woman wants. You put forth all of these "she wants" statements, but really - you don't know. You are just guessing...
She didn't want her baby. She did not want to be inconvenienced by her baby.
I know that.
"Was his life worth the fact the mom was spared the inconvenience of taking care of him?"
Absolutely. Given the alternative, I think abortion is a justified decision.
So human life has a price? If a baby is inconvenient, we can kill him? Who else's life is worth eliminating?
I know a couple that, now into their 60's, still have to care for their severely disabled son. He's now 34 and wasn't supposed to live past 10. This couple have had to wipe their son's bum for 34 years. They literally do everything for him.
Their lives were forever changed - and while they might be happy to care for their son this way I wouldn't want to force that life on anyone. Instead of 3 lives being ruined if they would have aborted the child they could have enjoyed life much more - and that is MORE than worth it in my mind.
Thank you for making my point. The fact they have to wipe this person's butt means that his life is not worth preserving. The inconvenience justifies killing. If the baby loses his life, too effing bad.
Joe, that is absoltuely cruel. You have no compassion for the unborn child.
I ~do~ have a heart and can see your point - I just happen to think the life of the woman carrying the fetus is MUCH more important than the ~potential~ life of the fetus.
"Potential" life? Please Joe. Get intellectually honest. That baby died. Everyone knows that. Confront the issue. If you do not admit that baby died, you are in denial.
"Why would this baby have his mouth open?"
Neither you nor I know... Who knows what a 27 month fetus feels (if anything at all)?
"So human life has a price? If a baby is inconvenient, we can kill him?"
Exactly.
"Who else's life is worth eliminating?"
The unborn for now... that will likely be it but who knows in the future.
"Joe, that is absoltuely cruel."
Not as cruel as subjecting a woman/family to a lifetime of taking care of a disabled child. That is far crueler.
"You have no compassion for the unborn child."
You're right, I have very little compassion for the unborn child.
Now will you admit that you have no compassion for the living woman/man who has to spend the rest of their lives tending for their disabled child?? Where is your compassion for them?
"'Potential' life? Please Joe"
I am not pretending the fetus isn't alive, I'm refering to the human existence... Like saying that 'my life didn't start until I met my wife' - I was alive before I met her but didn't have a 'life'.
"Joe, that is absoltuely cruel. You have no compassion for the unborn child."
Both "cruel" and "compassion" are subjective subjects.
Compassion is often applied in different ways.
Now, I realize that a human is not the same as a horse - but I wonder - what, Suzanne, is your opinion of putting a horse down for "compassionate" purposes?
I'm not impressed by accusations of "cruel" or lauditories of "compassion" in a debate that should be about objectivity.
The PETA crowd call me "cruel" because I like to fish.
By the way, the picture of the fetus with it's mouth open - if you look at the picture above, it appears the lips, at least at the edges, are closed.
Perhaps the photographer wanted a picture of the tongue and the mouth was opened?
I know you and I have had some "interesting" discussions via our blogs in the past - and often you do try to be quite objective - but this post seemed to me to be more about appealing to emotion.
Of course, I still disagree with you, objectively. But regardless, often, I do find that you motivate me to think in ways I wouldn't have thought if not for some of your material.
Your reply to your commenter above re compassion and cruelty got my attention - and I'm quite curious as to whether you really believe that just because someone has a different perspective than you, they lack compassion or are "cruel."
You do realize that subjectively, one could apply the same to you.
When I was born, I didn't breathe for some "long" period of time - long enough that there was some major medical concern.
What got me breathing was the Doctor at the hospital in Enniskillen, N. Ireland, pouring Irish Whiskey onto a spoon and putting that in my mouth.
Nothing else worked.
Until the moment I breathed, I doubt that I had any sort of "consiousness" about me at all. If I had not breathed, and ceased to have any "functionns," I know my mom would have been very very sad. But I'm not certain that her sadness and feelings about me made me a "living human" just as her sadness and compassion toward the dog we had that died didn't make the dog a human.
I tend to agree with Joe's comments above - please don't call me "cruel" or lacking in compassion - you might have my four sons to contend with if you do.
Anyhow, just some random, not well thought out comments in response to your "cruel" assertion above.
Oh, by the way - saw your picture on your political party's website. Thought I'd let you know that I thought you appear to be quite pretty!
Hopefully you'll take that as the sincere compliment it is meant without any other projections 
Neither you nor I know... Who knows what a 27 month fetus feels (if anything at all)?
The world's foremost researcher on fetal pain says fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks and probably earlier.
I am not pretending the fetus isn't alive, I'm refering to the human existence...
That's not what's under debate. The issue is whether it's okay to take human life, biologically.
So human life has a price? If a baby is inconvenient, we can kill him?"
Exactly.
Okay, so why not extend that rule to newborns?
"Who else's life is worth eliminating?"
The unborn for now... that will likely be it but who knows in the future.
And you're okay with that?
You're right, I have very little compassion for the unborn child.
Now will you admit that you have no compassion for the living woman/man who has to spend the rest of their lives tending for their disabled child?? Where is your compassion for them?
I have an autistic daughter. I feel sympathy for them, but my sympathy doesn'textend to killing people for being inconvenient.
By the way, the picture of the fetus with it's mouth open - if you look at the picture above, it appears the lips, at least at the edges, are closed.
Hard to fake the eyes and the mouth. Besides, the baby was subject to multiple malformations that might make his face look that way. The mouth isn't exactly closed on the side.
If you're trying to insinuate this is some pro-life trick, it's not, because the pictures were for a master's thesis.
I tend to agree with Joe's comments above - please don't call me "cruel" or lacking in compassion - you might have my four sons to contend with if you do.
Not caring that another human being has an injection of acid shot into his heart is lacking in compassion for that baby. Joe has shown an utter lack of concern for this innocent creature.
Hopefully you'll take that as the sincere compliment it is meant without any other projections
Thanks. I need to get a new picture. I get too much attention from strange men on facebook.
your opinions, are just that: your opinions. to preach on the internet about another womans right to choose is, in itself, despicable. abortion is just one of those things that is disputed, and will always be disputed. you got your voice out there- you posted pictures of SOMEONE ELSES UNBORN CHILD on the internet. just who the hell do you think you are? honestly?
bullying people into agreeing with your position on this issue is not only immature, its ignorant. the next time you decide to put your opinion out there, dont act so shocked when people out there dont agree.
free speech for me and not for thee...
sound familiar??
You're not offended by abortion...
But you're offended by the fact that I posted pictures of someone else's unborn child....
Do you see the disconnect here?
You're not angry that unborn child was killed.
But you're angry that I showed his picture?
"bullying people into agreeing with your position on this issue is not only immature,"
Who's bullying? Nobody is forced to read my blog.
joe you saying that it is cruel to put a family throgh a liftime of lookin after a disabled child is really disgusting. my friend just had a baby and it has down sindrome but she doesnt care one little bit she loves that baby and she knows it will be hard but she will get ver it because she loves her child!!! and another thing before my grandma died she used to tell use that no matter what disease your baby might have you should still love it with all your heart because it is your flesh and blood, no one elses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
in a way i agree with Amy its not your place to be posting pictures of your friends unborn baby! But in a way i agreewith you suzanne its gettng the point across that so many babies are killed and left like this and i think that it is wrong! but i still think it is not your place to post a picture of your friends unborn baby! i would hate myself if i did that and i certanly would not be friends with that person ever again
Listen. This is a defective unit. Humanity is much better off without it. It would be a drain on the system, and who the fuck really cares anyway? It would just be laughed at. It's better off dead.
Administrative purposes:
http://bluewavecanada.blogspot.c...-of-
choice.html
Listen. This is a defective unit. Humanity is much better off without it. It would be a drain on the system, and who the fuck really cares anyway? It would just be laughed at. It's better off dead.
Ah, ignorance and intolerance at it's best.
Rachael C.
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