Blogotional
Here is an interesting scripture:
"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, and idolator or slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it mine to judge those outside the church: Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked from among you."
1 Cor. 5: 11-13
Surely it must be considered in this debate somehow or other??
And there is the long discourse in Romans 1: 18-31, too.
"I remain amazed every time I read the gospels. Christ reserved His harshest criticisms not for publicans and sinners, but for scribes and Pharisees. I think there is a lesson in that - don't you?"
Amen and amen!
Mark
John:
I, too, took issue with Tim (and Joe) but I don't think we need to be too quick to rake Tim over the coals. His body of work is gracious and inclusive, not mean-spirited and exclusive. So we should be careful not to caricaturize him unfairly.
You correctly call for some room to be wrong: is Tim entitled to the same without being castigated rather than rebuked? Besides, who hasn't written a bad post from time to time? Tim had a bad day. Period. That post is not representative of the Tim I have come to know from his other writings and emails.
FWIW, I don't think the purpose of excommunication is to allow someone to "wallow" in their error. It is to hand them over to Satan to learn a hard, even fatal, lesson. It's not just a physical, social act; it is a spiritual act with severe spiritual consequences.
Addendum:
I should have added to my last statement, "but you know that." Because you do.
So...are you suggesting we SHOULDN'T pull the weeds?
e
Look, there is a lot in the church I would not let Sullivan do - preach, teach - any leadership position.
But that does not mean I won't accept him as a "brother-in-Christ" if he claims Christ.
I don't know, John: when there's that big a disconnect between what a person says and what a person lives, I have to wonder.
I'm reading through Morris' NICNT commentary on John and just looked at Jn 14.21. Morris writes,
"Once again love to Christ is expressed in ethical terms (see v. 15). The man who loves Christ is the one who 'has' his commands and 'obeys' them . . . This means that it is more important to obey them in daily life than to have a firm intellectual grasp of their content. This does not mean that the Father's love is merited by the obedience: in the first place Jesus is saying that love for him is not only a matter of words; if it is real it is shown by deeds. The lover does what the loved one asks. In the second place he is saying that the Father is not indifferent to the attitude people take toward the Son." - pp. 579-80
Of course, Morris is not infallible but I think he makes some points that are applicable to the situation with Sullivan, Borg, or even Phelps.
I won't argue with that Mike, but where is the line here? Which unrepentant sin says "I don't love Christ" and which says I do?
One other thing - I absolutely refuse to stand in this kind of judgement on a man I have never met!
That is the job of his local spirtual authority.
Is discernment the same thing as judgment?
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