Joshua,
It seems you and your timid readers have little understanding of the spirituality behind the externals of Catholic doctrine you are spoonfed.
Don't any of your understand the deep meanings implicit behind your faith?
I mean, it seems you are Catholics mostly for obtaining an identity within a community, rather than an understanding of Catholic doctrine.
As if you finally found a club who will take you in: it's like you are excited about being solicited by a credit card company for a credit card promising you can be a special VIP card holder -- for only 21% interest.
For example, when I challenge you about the Catholicism's silence in the face of overt superstition and credulity -- condoned by the Pope.
You wax as silent as the Pope.
I challenge you: Can't anyone of you tell me the reason state-ordained homosexual marriages cannot have it's own unique "complementary synergy" that benefits society?
Homosexuals have contributed immense cultural contributions since time memorial.
Doesn't marriage still retain its dignity and integrity -- even if sanctifying the unique complementarity of same-sex unions?
Tell me: what is so detrimental to society about homosexual marriage
Sally,
We must first acknowedge that homosexual acts, not inclininations, are sinful. The homosexual is to be helped, not hated.
Homosexuality is profoundly and objectively disordered. The natural moral order tells us this. That is why it is condemned by all religions worthy of the name.
My dictionary defines "marriage" as the "relation between husband and wife." This is the natural definiton of marriage, as understood by people the world over for millenia. Thus, it is impossible for to people of the same sex to be "married."
Our Lord elevated natural marriage to the sacramental level, which makes the mockery of gay "marriage" all the worse.
The family, the basic unit of society, is founded on marriage. Any attempt to erode marriage erodes family and society.
Ake Green, the Swedish Pentacotalist pastor is now facing jail time for speaking the truth: "Homosexuality is a cancer that leads to the death of a society."
It is no coincidence that societies in decline are most inclined toward homosexuality. Acceptance of homosexuality is the death-knell of a civilization.
Look at Western Europe and parts of North America. They are out to sterilize, euthanize, or homosexualize themselves out of existence. They're can't be bothered to reproduce. They'll be gone in a century.
It's horrific to see the greatest civilization the world has produced go out with such a pathetic whimper.
Postmodernism teaches that truth is defined by those in power. In contrast, we believe in objective truth. When Christians (and others) are driven underground by the "gay brownshirts," the truth will remain the same.
How is homosexuality a cancer? Demonstrate how acceptance of homosexuality and societal collapse have historically causally linked (as opposed to correlated).
How does someone else's marriage rot away the meaning of marriage according to your faith?
How would homosexual marriage rot that "original meaning" away more than, say, divorce-infested, cynical Hollywood marriage; or for that matter, the adulterous marriages of a huge number of Western people?
And finally, why should we live in a theocracy? Gays have no more obligation to follow your religion's rules than you have obligation to follow the laws of, say, Mormons or Hasidic Jews. Democracy, freedom, and so on mean freedom from theocrats like the Pope dictating how we may live. This is, believe it or not, a good thing.
What is horrific, actually, is seeing a religion that is supposedly centered on love being used to spew vitriolic bigotry and vying for theocratic power (again!).
And... I wish this Silly Sally person would shut the hell up as her arguments are just stupid.
And by the way, who are these "gay brownshirts"? As far as I've seen, lots of gay people get beaten up for who they are, but I have never heard of a Right Wing Bigot being beaten up for being the nasty bit of work that he is.
The "brownshirt" metaphor is far more apt for the people who, like the originals, are dead set against homosexuality. In fact, the promulgation of fear and hatred towards those whose sexuality was primarily not reproductive has, historically, been symptomatic of historical Dark Ages. Socrates gave us the Cave; when was the last time you read, say, Boethius?
It may be that when societies reach a certain degree of liberality, they cannot hold together easily; humans are hateful, spiteful creatures, after all. Perhaps tolerance of homosexuality is merely a symptom of a kind of decency and tolerance that societies can develop but sustain only for a short time? Perhaps liberal societies eventually collapse under the weight of their many distributed forces at work? But oh, what wonders they produce! And the rank ferment of them has kept us from being just rows of peasants in Cathedrals, begging some escape from our filthy-rich, foul -souled kings and popes.
Gord,
Acceptance of homosexuality and societal collapse are linked causally in that homosexual unions are unable to produce children. Societies need children or they die. Marriages among those who mutilate themselves through sterilization or who practice contraception are equally disordered, as are the "divorce-infested, cynical Hollywood marriage, [and] the adulterous marriages" you mentioned, which are just as bad.
This had nothing to do with a theocracy, but following natural law, which healthy societies of diverse religions have been doing for millenia.
To promote homosexuality, much less "sanctify" it with the name "marriage," would be to encourage people to accept an unhealthy, disordered, and, pardon the expression, sinful, lifestyle. Hate the sin; love the sinner.
Finally, the "brownshirt" metaphor, stolen from Mr. Mark Shea of Catholic and Enjoying It!, refers to those who would take away the freedom of others to question homosexuality. Pastor Ake Green is a victim of theirs in Sweden. In Ireland, priests were threatened with jail-time if they read the Papal Encyclical linked above. Canadians and American academics are under a similar threat.
Gordhead,
For an atheist your perspective is strongly Biblical. You harbor the belief in the innate corruption in mankind.
You correctly diagnose societies in perpetual cylcles of self-correction indicating an innate lack of balance in the human soul.
Such a perspective is at odds with the Catholic view that the creature is capable of perfection without the atoning death of Christ: as symbolized by Mary's eternal sinless nature -- revealing the belief in the innate goodness of the creature if fully submitted to God.
Joshua, reveals his ignorance of the pernicious influence behind homosexuality.
Thus,he merely appeals to natural law: eg. "homosexuals don't reproduce and ,therefore, lead to a population decline."
Is Joshua's Popish wisdom infallibly true?
The truth is homosexuals marry women and procreate abundantly - then furtively fuck in gay bars; furthermore, homosexuality does not mass convert hetero-sexuals into non-breeders; homosexuality is not blocking the family and procreation.
Jesus of Nazareth declared the last days they will be of drinking, eating, and marrying. The fear of potential mass conversion to homosexuality reducing population seems to be only Joshua's special paranoia -- probably due to Catholicism generating the inner spiritual dynamics of homosexuality leaving him feeling vulnerable.
As I have said, homosexuality is gender narcissism -- the inversion of libido toward self -- the erotic attraction to the likeness of self.
It's like masturbating to one's image in a mirror.
Homosexuality's greatest threat to Western civilization is it's spiritual influence: the supremacy of the will implicit in homosexuality -- the self celebrated as God; and thus, self-loved with all one's heart, soul, and body.
Mass narcissism legitimized by culture and left unchecked by a higher restraint.
Marian doctrine is the celebration of the creature being assumpted into heaven as sinless and full of grace: a prerogative of the divinity-- no matter how much Catholic theologians insist otherwise.
This glorification of mankind is also our dream of instituting a world-wide religion of pantheistic humanism -- where all humans are eternal witches working their will for self-pleasure.
That is why we Wiccans celebrate Catholicism as a sister religion and promoter of the cause.
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