I guess I fully agree with you. What should be done is the question?
some people just do not remember that despite the constitution America is still a Chritian country and the jews are there freely due to the benevolence of the goyim. That is not our home! We should refrain from starting up with the goyim. Enough of these stories and there will be a major backlash....
so I take it you are just Anti-Lubavitch no matter how much they have done to help world Jewry. So this time their plan to "light" up the world back fired, that doesn't mean there intentions were bad. They were only trying to have jews remember who they are and where we come from. Kol HaKavod to Lubavitch.
so I take it you are just Anti-Lubavitch no matter how much they have done to help world Jewry. So this time their plan to "light" up the world back fired, that doesn't mean there intentions were bad. They were only trying to have jews remember who they are and where we come from. Kol HaKavod to Lubavitch.
Come again? How exactly do you infer that?
As far as I know, this is about one individual. But if there is a greater Lubavitch movement to FILE LAWSUITS to place Menorahs wherever there are Christmas trees, then yes, I am strongly opposed to that.
I agree with you 1000%. This "Rabbi" is undeserving of that title.
I have nothing against Chabad per se, but these huge public Menorah displays cause more harm than good IMHO
Rabbi Bogomilsky, as well as most of Chabad's obsession with lighting huge menorahs everywhere is especially ironic considering that most Jews outside of Israel light the Menorah inside their homes and not outside their door which is the preferred manner, because we consider it a sakanah to light outdoors.
While I personally am not in favor of these public displays of the menorah, to be fair, the media gave it a very anti-jewish spin (what else is new). The headlines sounded like he was against the tree. When you read the story it's clear all he wanted was the menorah and when they kept on stonewalling him, he threatened the lawsuit. Rather than have both, they took down the tree.
Now whether or not the Lubavitchers should do this every year is a whole separate conversation.
aaron, with all due respect, this man threatened a lawsuit. Of course it will get anti-Jewish spin, he was basically begging for it.
I'm sorry but this story has been adopted to fit today's "War on Xmas" news storyline.
This exact exchange happens every year probably ten times a year and for the last 20 years.
The Supreme Court has ruled (a few times) on this issue and sided with Chabad on every account. It's a game, the Shliach see's a public display and wants to have a Menorah there as well so that Yidden can be proud of their holiday and heritage as well. It's also a matter of persumei nissah. In most cases, be it a mall, an airport, a city council building or a hospital, the people who make these decisions almost always allow the Menorah to be added.
In some cases if they don't allow it the Shliach will just let them know that they do have legal backing to demand this request as per the Supreme Court decision. I promise you this happens every year. It's just that this year, some snobs in Seattle decided to make hay out of nothing and instead of just saying, you know what, if we have Xmas trees then there is no reason we can't have a Jewish symbol also. Instead they told the Rabbi no. Then the Rabbi said, if we can't come to an agreement I will sue. Which in most cases, knowing the supreme court decision is a no brainer.
What's sad is how the media has bent this story to make it like the Rabbi was going out of his rabbi to find Xmas trees and make sure they came down. That wasn't the intention and the media knows it. They are hungry for "WAR ON XMAS" stories so this sounded close enough.
Whats sadder is how Frum yidden have taken the story and ran with it to one more time stick their fingers at Chabad and denoucne them for something. Nowhere at any point to this Rabbi say he spoke for Jews everywhere. When it comes to Chabad the frum world isn't looking to be dan lekav zchus. If the Media said it, it MUST be true. There isn't any media bias for the sake of a story right?
So yes, he threatened a lawsuit, big deal, he only has the United States Supreme Court's decision to back him up. Which fool wouldn't threaten to use the law when the highest court in the land has backed this decision repeatedly over the last 20 years?
So some losers on an airport committee somewhere decidesthat they don't want a JEWISH display and instead of asking why they are so against the menorah, we all jump on the blame chabad bandwagon.
Chaim, firstly there was nothing anti-chabad about my post. I did not intentionally use this to point fingers at Chabad.
Secondly, it really doesn't matter to me if the supreme court agrees with it or not. When a rabbi threatens to sue to have a menorah display, that is outrageous to me. This is not Israel. Us Jews have not had a country treat us so well in many centuries. Do we really have to provoke them at every opportunity? We are here by their good graces, we should shut up, sit down and be grateful unless something actually contradicts our faith and presents a real problem. The lack of a public menorah display does not qualify.
In addition, halacha tells us how to achieve persumei nissa, not what we think on our own. Sure, we can hand out latkes to the homeless and we can spin draidels in Times Square, but that is not persumei nissa.
Shtend, you sound like the typical post holocaust american Jew.
Let's just be good quiet Jews, not make a fuss and maybe they wont turn on us ...
by the way, before you guys get your pitchforks to go up to Seattle and sting up this guy, you should read this article which will help you to understand the REAL STORY not the manufactured biased Media version of it.
Chaim, not at all. On the contrary, I said that they already hate us. But I see no reason to further provoke them over ridiculous things. And painting me in that light in no way diminishes the points I made.
I wasn't trying to paint you in a negative light. I'm just shocked at how quickly you and other J-Bloggers have jumped all over this story and denoucned the Rabbi. Since when are we embrased to be Jewish or of Chanukah? for crying outloud, the Kremilin allows a Menorah in Moscow but the airport in Seattle can't have a menorah that would have been supplied and maintained by the Rabbi? Especially after the Rabbi had begun the process of asking two months in advance!?
Why arent we asking what these people have against Judaism and a Menorah?
I just think you should read the article and maybe just give this guy a bit of a break before so harshly denoucning him and seperatating yourself from him. You don't know him, and all you do know about him you got threw some biased and harsh news reports.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Unfortunately, as we become more and more comfortable in this wonderful country, we tend to increasingly forget the age-old Jewish way of keeping a low profile.
I am not ant-Lubavitch. I feel this way across the board. I don’t think we should be blocking off streets and inconveniencing non-Jews for our Hachnosos Sifrei Torah either.
It seems Hashem is sending us messages, through increased anti-Semitism, that we may be going to far. I actually discussd this on my blog not long ago.
http://independentfrumthinker.bl...-
reminders.html
I wasn't trying to paint you in a negative light. I'm just shocked at how quickly you and other J-Bloggers have jumped all over this story and denoucned the Rabbi. Since when are we embrased to be Jewish or of Chanukah? for crying outloud, the Kremilin allows a Menorah in Moscow but the airport in Seattle can't have a menorah that would have been supplied and maintained by the Rabbi? Especially after the Rabbi had begun the process of asking two months in advance!
Is a menorah in the Kremlin supposed to make me feel good? Do I now feel that the Kremlin has nothing against Jews? I denounced this rabbi and I continue to, because he THREATENED TO FILE A LAWSUIT OVER A MENORAH IN THE AIRPORT FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!!!!! That is a ridiculous provocation, it is unecessary and causes more friction than there already is. I'm not embarresed to be Jewish in any shape or form, but you will never see me filing suit to have Santa wear tzitzis!
Why arent we asking what these people have against Judaism and a Menorah?
Why in the world should we? This is not Israel, this is not our country and we shouldn't act like it is. There is absolutely no reason why they SHOULD put up a menorah. What might they have against it? I know, they don't like us. That's nothing new. Is it really necessary to force the issue?
I just think you should read the article and maybe just give this guy a bit of a break before so harshly denoucning him and seperatating yourself from him. You don't know him, and all you do know about him you got threw some biased and harsh news reports.
I did read it, and it changed my opinion very slightly. I'm happy he has nothing against the trees, but I still think he's a flaming idiot for threatening a lawsuit. That's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that you have nothing against the Airport for over reacting and ignoring the Rabbi's request for two months is very upsetting.
Of course, more information has come out today.
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"The situation began rather quietly back in late October or early November when Mitchell Stein, a construction consultant for the Port, contacted a Port staffer saying he'd like to put up a large menorah near the Christmas tree at the international arrival hall.
Stein, who is Jewish and is friends with Bogomilsky, said he thought it would be a "great opportunity for the Port to show their joy and commitment to diversity."
Over the next several weeks, though, he said, he was referred to several different people on staff, who told him different things about whether a menorah would be allowed.
Stein said Harvey Grad, the rabbi's attorney, contacted the Port last week and sent officials there a legal brief as a way of spurring action, given that Hanukkah was coming up, and to let the Port know the legal precedents involved in the issue.
It was not intended to be threatening, Stein said. When Port commissioners "told us just before Shabbat that they were taking down all the Christmas trees, we were totally aghast."
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Like I said, this is the same thing that anyone who wants to put up a Menorah in any public place does every year. This was S.O.P. (standard operating procedure) for the last who knows how many years, since the Supreme Court sided with Chabad.
All he did was send him the info saying that there is a legal precedent for allowing the Menorah to go up. He didn't even THREATEN a suit. He just let them know that there was legal precedence to support his request.
These guys went bonkers and thought the sky was falling and in the middle of the night removed the trees and then purposely set out through the media to make the Rabbi look like the bad guy.
... and you ate it up ...
Shtend, IMHO low profile or not it wouldnt hurt them to put up his stupid menora ......but they chose not to and to shut down the entire display to make a very public case about it and to make him look like a fool.
I would say their attitude sux, they sound like a bunch of KKK
I have no problem with a public menora display - in a place that wants it.
To force the goyim to take down a Christmas tree because they won't put up a menore is overboard.
Jeff and Chaim:
There is no doubt in my mind that the Seattle airport people are no tzaddikim. But you know what? That's nothing new. My problem with this man is that he tried to force them to put up a menorah against their will, justified or not. That's just beyond crazy in my book. A public menorah is not yihareg v'al ya'avor, in fact many people would argue that it shouldn't be there altogether. To make a fuss about it and try to force the issue through legal channels is inconcievable.
My question is...In Czarist Russia were they also demanding a Menorah in Palace Square?
Shtender,
Not everything that the media says is true.
I'm sure Rabbi Bogomilsky wasn't offended by the trees.
He just wanted to have a Chanuka menorah to pubblicize the miracle of Chanuka.
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