Tell me about your mother....
I've been finding myself reading your blog with great interest over the last few days, but if I may make one request, would you please not use the term "leftist" when something more akin to "anti-Semites of the left" or "terrorism apologists on the left" would be more accurate?
There are many on the left who support a secure, democratic Israel, safe from religious and political extremists who use genocidal rhetoric and terrorism.
Actually, I think "leftist" fits perfectly for the people SC&A is describing. There's a difference between that and the more common "liberal," who usually want a safe Israel even though his political views may be left-wing.
In all fairness though, isn't the leftist who supports terrorism to advance a racist, or religiously fundamentalist agenda, a hypocrite at best? (Yes, I do realize that this means that there are many many hypocrites in the world.)
It just seems to me that type of leftist that SC&A is describing is ultimately an anti-Semite who happens to articulate his or her antisemitism in in the rhetoric of the left, much as the the Christian anti-Semite uses scripture and theological categories, and the Fascist anti-Semite speaks in terms of nationhood and xenophobia.
" She is the only democracy in the region"
Who cares?
Why is that significant?
Is there some sort of ideological block that all Americans should blindly support with their lives and money.
Israel is a big pain in the ass and they would be better off if we did not support them with money and weapons.
Let them support their own viability with less uncompromising exapnsionism and more diplomacy and self-determinism.
Israel has been a tick on the ass of America for too long.
"Democracy" or not.
"with less uncompromising expansionism"
What expansionism? What unwillingness to compromise? Have neighbors shown a willingness to compromise? Care to document this claim?
"all Americans should blindly support with their lives"
When has the United States sent anyone to lay down their life for Israel? Please substantiate.
Also keep in mind that the U.S. also supports, "with money and weapons", a number of regimes that are hostile to Israel.
Yes Buzz, you are right. We don't need Israel.
We need to associate more with the dysfunctional and murderous racist, genocidal, bigoted and other whack jobs that populate the region.
Good thinking, Buzz.
"We need to associate more with the dysfunctional and murderous racist, genocidal, bigoted and other whack jobs that populate the region."
You could call Israel all those things or the US for that matter. Perspective.
But I am asking a genuine and fair question: Why does the US need Israel? Why do we support this country beyond others in the region?
What value is derived for US citizens?
Suppose that I make the statement of foreign policy that we should spread US dollars and military aid (or none for all) around the region in equal parts, not by country but per capita and by need (build schools in poor regions where people will accept it beyond and above regular support). Win the hearts and minds...etc.
What would be wrong with that?
"You could call Israel all those things or the US for that matter. Perspective."
LOLOL- Thanks for the laugh!
You know, when it's all said and done, the only thing that the Arab world has achieved of note in the last millinia is Jew hatred.
Do you really want to play the comparison, Buzz? Really?
Now, as to why we need Israel, the answer is simple.
We need Israel for the same reason we need other civilized nations as allies.
As for foreign aid, let's be honest and tell the whole story- virtually all that money is actually SPENT here, injected into our economy.
In any event, you didn't choose to address the issue I raised- do "We need to associate more with the dysfunctional and murderous racist, genocidal, bigoted and other whack jobs that populate the region"?
I don't like your answer. It does not explain anything...we need a 'civilized' nation there...really? Why? What have they done to civilize the region? Nothing. They seem to be yet another firebrand among firebrands...and let's be generous and say they are JUST ANOTHER firebrand. Another problem....fine.
"In any event, you didn't choose to address the issue I raised- do "We need to associate more with the dysfunctional and murderous racist, genocidal, bigoted and other whack jobs that populate the region"?"
The answer is simple: we either have to kill them all or help them. They need MUCH more help than Israel. Poor people, Poor conditions. Poor education. Easy targets to create criminals or terrorists.
You argument seems to be kind of the same argument a racist in the south would have: Why should we associate with poor blacks? Why should we help?
Because, they have been abused and need help...that's why.
First things first, since you are bound and determined to play the comparison game. See this:
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.word...that-is-israel/
Onwards.
"The answer is simple: we either have to kill them all or help them. They need MUCH more help than Israel. Poor people, Poor conditions. Poor education. Easy targets to create criminals or terrorists."
We have tried- and they have rejected our help time after time. For some reason, they would rather kill Jews than actually work to civilize their own cultures.
Now, as for spending military aid by spreading it around the region, that idea is absurd.
Why would you endorse giving military aid to those nations who openly declare their genocidal tendencies?
I realize that this may come as a shock, but for most people, regimes that harbor media, educational curricula and religious teachings that promise to 'finish what Hitler started' are not civilized regimes- and that is yet another reason why support of Israel is a necessity.
Buzz, give it a rest.
To reiterate- poor blacks in the South aren't like much of the Arab world.
They never wanted to commit mass genocide.
We haven't tried at all. We steal their land and their resources and when they complain, we lock them up. And when they resist, we kill them in number so high we think it will break their spirit.
BUT IT DOESN'T break their spirit. It only encourages them to get tougher and meaner and more desperate.
You would deny poor arab children assistance? How heartless can you get?
There must be something seriously wrong with you, siggy.
"We haven't tried at all. "
Right- we got rid of that beast Saddam and the Arab world is up in arms.
Still, I'm glad to see you recognize the need to rid the Arab world of the genocidal and murderous lunatics that are poisoning their people.
Speaking of land, what stolen land are you referring to?
"You would deny poor arab children assistance? How heartless can you get?"
The only ones denying Arab children are the beasts amd animals that have denied their people for over a century.
Are you suggesting that we go in and forcibly remove those Arab leaders that have denied their own? I can understand how frustrating that must be for you.
As you know, the UN Human Development Report places the Arab world at pretty much the bottom of the heap.
The way I see it, the civilized world has two options. We can leave the Arab world to implode on it's own or actually intervene.
Which do you support, Buzz? By the way, you still haven't addressed the issue at hand- do "We need to associate more with the dysfunctional and murderous racist, genocidal, bigoted and other whack jobs that populate the region"? or do we need to rid ourselves and the world of them?
SC&A-
I understand the Nietzschean dictum "beware when fighting monsters, lest you become a monster," but isn't it somewhat self defeating to use beastial rhetoric when condemning those who use beastial rhetoric? The genocidal fantasies, racist agenda, violent politics that we rightfully decry in the Arab world, is a frightening aspect of humanity as your namesakes understood it-- these tendencies are only animalistic in the sense that humans are animals.
We have to acknowledge that the west, from the most hardline of communists, to the most hardline of conservatives, have all lent support for the very same regimes that are hostile to a democratic Israel-- so we do need to understand that when we are asked "what have we done for both the Arabs and Israel?"
"Isn't it somewhat self defeating to use bestial rhetoric when condemning those who use bestial rhetoric?"
Under normal circumstances, I'd agree. Buzz is a different creature- I'll leave it at that.
Now, as to your remark, "so we do need to understand that when we are asked "what have we done for both the Arabs and Israel?" is a bit of red herring.
Why on earth would we engage the Arabs as if they were moral equivalents to Israel? Would you advocate making the KKK moral equivalents to the rest of us?
The question addresses reality. There is no great outcry from the Arab world denouncing hate and bigotry- just the opposite, in fact. Rabid hate and bigotry are de facto realities in the Arab world. On the one hand, they claim to reject Arab leader and regime dysfunction and on the other, they embrace the most diseased part of that dysfunction with gusto.
As I noted earlier today, "We are not obligated to sit down and break bread with cannibals, racists and murderers, even if they take offense. They are elevated by our presence. We are denigrated. There is no equal exchange.
If we are to love our neighbors, we are to meant to love ourselves- and that means to defend and strive for the potential and possibilities of who we are capable of being. We cannot dilute the best of who we are to others so that others might love us.
We are meant to elevate them instead."
It really is that simple.
Why on earth would we engage the Arabs as if they were moral equivalents to Israel? Would you advocate making the KKK moral equivalents to the rest of us?
I think it's pretty clear given my other comments to this thread that that is exactly what I haven't advocated. I was addressing the issue of how the U.S. is also culpable for this situation.
American foreign policy has generally been to play both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict for its own strategic advantage-- proping up authoritarian regimes that finance terrorism against Israel, that call for Israel's destruction, and otherwise blame their problems on Israel-- even to the extend of arming and defending these regimes. Saudi Arabia is only the most obvious example.
Ian, you write, "propping up authoritarian regimes that finance terrorism against Israel..."
What is the alternative? With whom should we deal? Where are the voices of reason in the region that decry the racism and calls for genocide?
You play the hand you are dealt.
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