That last quote reads like a passage from an Americanized version of The Line of Beauty. As for the "foreign policy" excuse our "allies" are in the habit of executing gays and lesbians.
Especially teenagers.
As for Blacker, I have no doubt he's a pal of Patient Less Than Zero's.
Not that Condi is anything to look at, but with her tight butt I thought she would have someone a bit cuter to have pajama parties with.
What is so maddening about these wealthy Republican types is how casually they socialize and befriend the very people they would literally shackle and send to prison. Remember Condi was an intimate friend of Bush's when he was in Texas speaking out publicly in support of sodomy laws to arrest gays. There is something beyond disgusting and inconscienably immoral about someone who would clink champaign glasses with gay men and be front and center at a gay commitment ceremony, and then also stand side by side with someone who touts family-values hate speech and emboldens confederate-flag waiving scum to disembowel a young gay boy, or brutally rape an innocent dyke. The smiling silence and acquiescense of people like Condi as others are imprisoned, bashed, and murdered is unspeakable. She is a deeply evil witch who has sold her soul for an aura of rich 'respectability' among her white GOP masters. What a dirty, slimy, bitch!
Indeed, Ron.
No doubt a stainless steel butt:capable of repeling rockets! that her best "friends" are liberals suggests great suprizes about her private life: imagine they let thier hair down and have great laughs about her zany boss and the insane, witchy comments she makes to the world on a regular basis. Who are any of them really?? Next we'll discover that she's a drag queen. This is all very bizarre...at this point what could be suprizing.
No wonder she looks so exhausted at times, it is hard work to hide!
Gwen Ifill must be so jealous!
who's gonna enjoy her 'home-cookin'" now?
They will say and do anything to suck on the teet of money, power and privilege, Ron.
It doesn't affect them since they are in the tower. If it helps them have what they want, then they have no problems with little people that are crushed by the effects. If those people want to do whatever they please then they should find bootstraps, yank them and become one of the privileged.
Rights, liberties and power are not doled out. Condi can do what she wants. So can any Democrat that is willing to utter the phrase states rights in reponse to the debate over marriage equality.
Unfortunately, the slimy bitch is the prototype for a lot of disenfrachized, marginalized So Baptist bigots et.al. (a whole voting block of millions of people). She was on the Bush team to recreate the American dream (for people who didn't know they were being scamed) Strange but true the "genius" of the Rove strategy was built on such mythmaking. E.g.how to get KKK's on the wagon with Black women >hate fags, love Jesus.
I have heard that some years ago Condi was applying for jobs with left-wing national security jobs. She doesn't stand for anything except finding the best gig for Condi.
Wait! I thought Laura was upset - and living at Blair House - because Condi was "Stealing" her man!. That's what the GLOBE SEZ! You mean I can't believe the tabs?
Now let's all wait for the other shoe to drop.
(The other shoe being the Patrick McHenry connection.)
Remember this old story?
well said, ron.
The part that amazes me is her "liberal" friends. How can you remain close to someone who is doing such evil? A lot of what is wrong in the Democratic party is exposed by these comfortable liberals who apparently find class solidarity more important than basic decency.
George W. Bush and Victor Ashe. Get to work people.
Ron, more maddening than the Republicans that would befriend gay and lesbian people who they actively work against is that those gay and lesbian people will have anything to do with those who would actively work against their own civil rights.
If I was this Randy Bean (or even the male friend Blacker) I would be ashamed of myself.
I don't doubt for a second that Condi could be a lesbian, but to consort with a self-hating lesbian who would deny your civil rights is just criminal.
Condi, had an oil tanker
named after her, when she
was very young. the name
was changed after she went
with Bush.
Question, what does a young
lady have to do to get a
large named after her???
What I can't understand is the venom reserved for people that choose not to be defined completely by what they do in private? Isn't our rights to privacy what make us special as Americans? And all this crap about denying people their civil rights and hauling off to jail. Get a grip. Like me, these people live in California, and under our laws domestic partnerships (I'm in one) have the same rights as married couples. And I don't think gays should force everyone to embrace the way they choose to have sex or live their lives.
My partner and I count as our closest friends married "straight" couples, Republicans, Progressives, and just plain apathetic HUMANS. Enough with the labeling and stop wearing your politics and sex life on your sleeves.
Live and let live.
But she likes to play the piano!
That's not gay.
California DP, consider the venom reserved for WAR CRIMINALS, and recompute.
California DP, it's attitudes like yours that let those Republican "friends" vote against our rights... I guess money means more to you than your dignity... It obviously does to Condi and her partner and friends...
Self-hatred is SO pitiful
I'm sorry California DP, but devastating iraq, killing a hundred thousand people, and creating 2 million refugees is not private.
Why the fuck people think that they can be friends with someone who works in a murder factory and not share the taint, is beyond me.
When the day comes that my sexual identity isn't important to anyone in power, then I'll snuggle with my husband and our hetero friends in front of the television watching the latest update on Britney.
Until then, I owe it to myself and the community leaders of the past 50 years that helped provide me with my fat lazy ass to sit on while forgetting what they went through to get us as far as we are.
If that isn't enough, I also feel a pang of responsibility to my LGBT sisters and brothers that live in the 40 states that have been legislated and/or amended against for no reason. I may be able to enjoy the comfort of San Francisco, but there are millions others that don't live here and they deserve to be treated with respect - the same respect that you would allow Rice.
You don't understand! Condi isn't friends with the kind of gays who get executed or bashed. She's friends with other members of the privileged class. This isn't about straights vs. gays; it's about wealthy vs. poor, and downgrading the middle class to poor. If they can do it by withholding health care, or beating a gay guy, that has nothing to do with their deep and abiding friendships no matter how "progressive" they claim to be (which is just another way of sucking money out of middle class, REAL progressives to support their comfortable lifestyles).
California DP | Homepage | 09.14.07 - 7:16 pm
**************************************************
Hhhmm...interesting, the last time I looked, there isn't a state, including Mass, where marriages are legal, that affords gay couples the same rights as str8s on the federal level. Please tell me where my partner & I can file our federal income taxes, the same as str8 couples can?????
And as far as Condi & her closeted boss W are concerned, (don't forget Jeff Gannon had 12 WH sleepovers & he sure as shit wasn't sleeping with Laura!) they're both like Jews collaborating with the damn Nazis.
Scum is as scum stinks!
So, California DP, is your name Brad and is your lover's name David Dreier?
Because you sound just like someone who has something to hide.
You apparently feel like you have to hide your sexual orientation, why not just live in a cave.
Sunlight -- Best disinfectant.
" What I can't understand is the venom reserved for people that choose not to be defined completely by what they do in private? Isn't our rights to privacy what make us special as Americans?"
No.
The "right to privacy" is an illusion.
"Get a grip. "
Get a grip yourself, Miss Thing.
Condi is a conniving cunt (doncha just love illiteration?) who would squash you like a bug if she ddin't find you "important" to her "career."
Since I am gay I should only have friends that are poor, not in the military or associated with US policy (that baby killing nazi thingy), and all my friends should all have the exact same thoughts on all topics as myself (assuming i meet your criteria for correct think).. and if I don't I am selling out the gay rights movment and helping them round up my husband and I to the camps -- does that about sum up you're all toughts?
We are progressive thinkers!!
Paul S. Cliwa 'stuck the landing' with:
"...it's about wealthy vs. poor, and downgrading the middle class to poor..."
good eye
These days it seems like every GOP operative is actually a twisted, deviant homosexual, who also flaunts the law on the side... at the least, the GOP is twisted and deviant!
As a boring, straight professional woman, I can assure you that Condi's apparent "singlehood" doesn't add up. If she has good health, decent looks, fame, and loads of money, a woman will far too easily find a heterosexual romantic entanglement over the course of decades!
She sends the "not interested" vibe out and accordingly, she has NO man ever?...
Yeah, she's a whopping LESBO, and twisted and deviant along with all the others who work for BushCo.
Wow, that's quite a statement.
"people that choose not to be defined completely by what they do in private?"
What a mealy-mouthed way of saying "liars, spies, fools, and hypocrites".
Yeah, I have plenty of stuff in my private life that doesn't "define completely" who I am in other arenas of my life. The difference is that I don't spend my public life denying, denigrating, and disenfranchising who I am in private. If it's not relevant - I just don't bring it up. But I never, ever, ever stab a knife in my own back.
Now, if Condi hadn't been part of an administration gutting our individual rights to privacy, I might entertain your argument, for the sake of civility. But they have, and so fuck them, and fuck you.
Wow, that's quite a statement.
"people that choose not to be defined completely by what they do in private?"
What a mealy-mouthed way of saying "liars, spies, fools, and hypocrites".
Yeah, I have plenty of stuff in my private life that doesn't "define completely" who I am in other arenas of my life. The difference is that I don't spend my public life denying, denigrating, and disenfranchising who I am in private. If it's not relevant - I just don't bring it up. But I never, ever, ever stab a knife in my own back.
Now, if Condi hadn't been part of an administration gutting our individual rights to privacy, I might entertain your argument, for the sake of civility. But they have, and so fuck them, and fuck you.
So, when Giuliani is elected President next year, what the fuck are y'all gonna do?
Especially if he has a by-then outed Rice as his VP?
Suppose you actually wanted to put Rice on the ticket next year. How would you handle her private life?
You'd roll that out in 2007, a year before the Republican Convention, to keep Hillary's people from being able to come up with "October Surprises" about your candidate.
This so-called "scandal" will be Old News in six months. Before Rudy wraps up the nomination and is looking for a VP choice.
Stick to the gay stuff. Leave politics to the adults.
So let me see if I have this straight: the reThugs are all a bunch of queers who plan to take over the world by making themselves second-class citizens? This is some more of that nuance thing you all got working, huh?
But she likes to play the piano!
That's not gay.
Paul in LA | 09.14.07 - 7:36 pm | #
I'm glad no one told Liberace & Elton
Geez, I have a few casual, friendly acquaintances who are Republicans and they know exactly what I think of their politics and why. What they don't know is that I can't consider them friends because I find their values too screwed up in that their wealth and privilege is more important to them than common human decency and integrity.
I feel pretty much the same way about Hillary supporters and that particularly stupid breed of homo who would canonize her back-stabbing, sellout husband.
Kids? One of these days, Americans are going to realize that it was never about race, or gender or sexual orientation, it was always all about class. Privileged queers have never needed legal protection, they've always had contacts and money to protect them. It's us working folks who need a law.
Got that?
Male gays are bad! Female gays are HOT!
Hooray girl gays! As long as you're willing to share in repugnican threesomes! Yah, baby!
Who cares? It's trivial and meaningless. She was a disaster as national security adviser (among other things, ignoring multiple warnings of Bin Laden attacks and failing to organize the national security apparatus to ask the tough questions on WMD) and has been almost as bad as Secretary of State. Given her horrible six year record in her official capacities, I can''t get excited about these reports and the rumors. Weren't we all dubious about her sexuality anyway?
Is the heading of this post misspelled? Shouldn't it be Condi's 'closet' special friend? Just wondering.
So? Ms. Rice has not made disparaging remarks about gays (to my recollection) and referred Mark Dybul's partner's mother as his mother in law. Now she may be a neo-con (I hate having to defend frikkin' neocons) but I see no evidence of hypocrisy (or anything that is business other than her own).
Michael Grello: So, working for a regime that gives power to hatemongers is not reason enough?
I love thi standard: She never said anything antigay (she just worked for people who say things that are antigay and give power to people who are really antigay).
Wake up people.
I don't know... Some of you remind me of that movie "Invasion of The Body Snatchers" when the known ones would point and scream whenever they detected ones not already infected. Only you point and scream, "They're gay! They're gay"! I've always felt that C. Rice is gay, but that doesn't bother me. What bothers me about her is that I see too many Black women becoming to be just like her in their politics. And it's strange too that C. Rice was raised on what they called "Dynamite Hill" in Birmingham, Alabama... The same neighborhood and grade schools that Angela Davis went to. Now she's chummy with the same kind of people who set around and allowed those who were guilty of those bombings go free and continue to do those things. Sad.
Perhaps Condi and W have consciously cultivated the rumors and innuendo that they are secretly a "couple" to distract people from rumors of having the opposite sexual orientation. The apparent slip of Condiliar referring to W as her "husb..." was a pose.
Fascinated by the sympathy for Rice here. There seems to be disconnect. Let me throw out this question:
Do you not believe that it is relevant that every single high cabinet official in this particular administration who is closeted and gay be known, no matter what they've publicly stated about it?
They did not have to become cabinet members and could have waited for a less hostile administration. No one is assigned their jobs in this country. You choose whom you want to be associated with and whom you put your reputation with. So if they choose to work for this administration -- a viciously antigay one -- you're saying they get a pass?
Please explain this, because I think that is where the disconnect is. This isn't just "a government job," like someone working for the post office. This is, as the title of the book says, The Confidante to the president who has helped nurture the antigay movement and whose Rovebots have wreaked havoc in the states with their ballot measures. And this is a woman who they have in fact used for weigh in on domestic policies (like affirmative action) when they needed her. Every one of the cabinet officials is enabling this president, and responsible for this administration.
So, please explain.
Paul S. -- you're right. Just as the advent of racism was never truly about race but of wealth, the same goes for the game of politics. These people, including GW BUsh, could care less if you are gay or straight. I have seen firsthand Republican elites rubbing elbows with liberals, gays, drug addicts, and more of the people they are supposed to hate; and the same goes for vice-versa. The elite run our nation and the party that they happen to be in is the party that chooses them. The Democratic elite is no different from the Republican. What they are babbling about varies from side to the other, but their true commitments are the same -- to better their own kind. They just say what they think we want to hear. Whenever political parties get on anti-gay or anti-whomever/whatever bandwagons, it's simply to get votes from dumbass frustrated poor people who have to find some group or reason to blame for their lack of wealth. I'm rambling incoherently, I know. But hey, I guess that's why their rich and I'm poor. I'll have another beer to that.
"What does it say about them as well?"
Signorile, what are you questioning here? Condi's friend's gay creds? Or their crassness at having friends outside of your narrow definition of what is socially correct?
Just trying to understand...
So, when Giuliani is elected President next year, what the fuck are y'all gonna do?
Especially if he has a by-then outed Rice as his VP?
oh, that is rich.
i would truly love to live in a country where an out black lesbian woman can be nominated VP!
& i think thats really cute that you believe republicans would vote for her!
Yes, it's the class thing, the people who worship at the altar of their wealth and privilege, who pander to their own elite group and despise everyone they see as beneath them, gay or not. I'd say they are disgusting human beings, but by denying the humanity of those below their economic class they have forfeited much of their own humanity.
So I'd say they are disgusting humanoid beings.
Regarding the hypocrites who consider themselves friends with gay people (for instance) yet work daily for and consort closely with people who ratchet up hate and bias against gay people, they are amoral narcissists with asshole personality disorders that are the very essence of what turns a nation of people into Nazis and fascists in general.
Their loyalty is to self, not the greatest good of all. Maybe it takes all kinds, but I think the world would be better off without the ones who don't give a shit about everyone else.
So, I wonder what address is on Condi Rice's voter registration?
asshole personality disorders
APD. Making a living in "Hollywood", I'm familiar with this syndrome.
However. D.C. currently beats crap morally, stylistically, metaphorically, and whatever else phrase applies to a higher class status forever related to untaxed $$$, in comparison to a town in which most people would kill their mothers to get a 3-pac pic deal.
But - that 3-pac these days doesn't begin to touch the money to be made in 1 month or less of war profiteering, around these U.S. of A. parts, anymore, anyhow.
Rice and Bean? Anybody else notice this? Hoax?
Michelangelo,
Perhaps I am too far out of the mainstream gay world – my husband would agree with you. I work for the DoD, am a member of the NRA, and I believe that it is in the best interest of society that gays settle down into monogamous life. Does this make me a Republican, a Nazi, a baby killer, or just a bad gay? Am I no longer allowed to say that I am gay? I am out at work and with my family. I work along side a lot of people that are closeted and promote don’t ask don’t tell because they have internal fear. Should I denounce them? Or should I try my best to be an example of its ok to be gay. I am always glad when one of my co-workers tells me that he didn’t like gays but that’s cause he never knew them. But I AM alright.
I don’t know if Condi is gay or not. I am glad that she has gay friends and that she treats her gay co-workers as equals. I like to see everyone be nice to gays and the Republicans AND Democrats to pass laws and use the bully pulpit to help establish the “pursuit of happiness” for all Americans and end the demonizing of us.
But I live in the rest of American and we are making strides – slowly. Not with rainbow t-shirts and picket signs but with kind words and deeds. You might not like her for her Iraq policy – that’s fine but please try to separate out that from her association with her gay friends. Maybe its less support than we will get with a Hillary administration but I remember Bill tossing gays under the bus and yet we did not demand that all gays that were friends with his cabinet members toss drinks in their face. – hope this is not too rambling but its 3am for me and I was finishing up some work (not at a bar) while my husband is off visiting his parents this weekend.
Sean, thanks for the response.
Some gay people did quit the Clinton administration beause of his policies. But that is not what I'm talking about here. I'm not talking about a well-meaning, but weak man who caved in to zealots. And I'm not talking about low-level or mid-level people in the DOD working from one president to the other.
I'm talking about a president who courted zealots, empowered them, tried to construct a constitutional amendment against gays and who has done immeasurable damage in the states to peoples lives willfully. And I'm talking about someone who took the role of Secretary of State -- not someone in DOD or in the post office or wherever, as I said, in some low level job -- as one of the architects of his administration and his policies (yes all policies) and who supports his very relevancy. Surely, you, in your job, are not keeping the president in his job. Rice is, and I'm sorry, but there is a difference. Surely you see that.
To the others who asked about what I expect of her friends: Quite honestly, yes, they are gross. To watch your friend go off and work for a madman who became madder by the day and who is writing laws against you and your kind -- yes, a madman, and history will judge that, in every way -- and you just stay as friends? We're not talking about every day stuff here folks, and this is the disconect I'm seeing. We're not talking differences of opinion among people who have little impact one way or the other, as with most of us, when it comes to the what's going on. We're talking about the people directly involved and responsible for all of this at the very, very top, and we're talking about one of those times that comes along two or three times in a century -- death and destruction on a massive scale, arrogance and ignorance, writing laws against people -- when, for those people especially, all of your associations, all of your friendships, who you are, it all matters deeply. This is one of those times. And no, you don't tell me that you're Secretary of State to this man, but it's just a job, and hey, let's have coffee next week.
sean, your job description reminds me of the Jews who "helped" run the concentration camps for the Nazis. Many Germans hated Jews in general but had their "one good Jew" that they liked. Think about what you are doing.
That's not a woman!
That's a man, man!
He wouldn't dream of thinking about what he's doing.
Rice and Bean ? I see a mexican food chain in their future.
Rice? Gay ? Better check with Laura on this one--- she said Dubya was all over Condi, like white on... well you get the picture
WHEN WILL ANYONE PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CHEAP-LABOR, NO-TAXES REPUBLICANS AT THE TOP ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR $$$$$$$$$$$
THEY ARE NOT GOD-FEARING...
THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS...
THEY COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT IF YOU CORNHOLE SHEEP...
THEY DONT MIND IF YOU ARE GAY, NEUTERED, OR RED, WHITE OR BROWN...
WHAT THEY DO CARE ABOUT IS YOUR VOTE... YOU STUPID CHRISTIAN, PEACE-LOVING, GUN-TOTING, GAY-BASHING, MIDDLE AND LOWER CLASS PEOPLE
THEY WILL WEDGE-ISSUE THE HELL OUT OF YOU FOR A VOTE...
RIGHT? YOU SOCCER MOM SENDING YOUR CHRIST LOVING SON OFF TO AN UNNECESSARY WAR
RIGHT? YOU CHURCH-GOING WHITE COUPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR DAUGHTER HAS TO WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGES AT WALMART
RIGHT? YOU TAX-PAYING UPPER-MIDDLE-CLASS COMPUTER GUY WHO JUST SAW YOUR JOB SHIPPED TO INDIA
RIGHT? YOU AVERAGE FAMILY WHO JUST LEARNED THAT YOUR $300 TAX BREAK WAS WIPED OUT BY HIGHER FEES TO USE THE LOCAL PARKS
RIGHT? YOU CONSERVATIVE GOP GUY WHO DOESNT UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR KATRINA BLOWN HOUSE ISNT BEING FIXED
ALL that the republicans want is to keep the money where it is--- and those not at the top don't understand how bad that is for them
I guess you can always watch the way she walks: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20762841/
Now what do you think of that story... statistics or just plan old stereotype profiling?
Live and let live.
California DP | Homepage | 09.14.07 - 7:16 pm |
These so-called "liberals" cozying up with a mass murderer like Condi is like a Jewish family having that nice Mr. Eichmann over for Seder and ignoring what he's doing to other people. Incredible!
Condi is complicit in a pattern of lies and deception that has resulted in the deaths of an estimated one million Iraqis and 4,000 Americans, the maiming of another 30,000 Americans, and the destruction of the Iraqi infrastructure.
This isn't some simple "policy difference," such as whether massive tax cuts should go to the top one percent or top two percent.
Coit, interrupt us?
Come sit by me, nicho!
Condi is nothing more than Roy Cohn in a dress.
With nicer manners of course. And for her enablers that counts above all.
Remember that she once accidentally called George W her 'husband'.
If there is something more to Condi and Randy Bean, then what was that slip Condi made at a Washington party over a year ago about "my husband, George..."?
Kudos to Signorile, Newsnag, and Cunning Runt.
Listening to people in the 96th percentile of economic well-being rage on about those in the 99th percentile is just precious.
As is listening to people shrieking at the tops of their lungs on the public internet about loss of privacy.
You all seriously need some fresh air. Get over yourselves.
Carry on.
This really is another nail in the coffin of the gay community - a community that has no problem going as “far right†as necessary if and when it means getting "ahead," being part of something "big," or if they can (in turn), express bigotry against "others."
We've seen the same thing happen within the Jewish community – many now bent on adding intellectual weight to pure racism as the far right increasingly drop long held anti-Semitic baggage (the new Christian / Zionist ideological alliance presently running amok around the world). This phenomenon represents another cog in the mainstreaming of legitimized racism – not a good sign for blacks, immigrants, and Muslims.
Finally, that there are and always have been blacks (though to a far lesser extent) that, as Malcolm X reminded us, would sell their souls in exchange for “social climbing†and “status seeking.â€
The bottom line in this sellout free-for-all has led to a local, regional, and global rise is racism, if not legitimized fascism – particularly against people of color.
It’s all of sad, pathetic – and scary…
thank you for the GREAT MATERIAL!
i linked you back
post at http://joetohell.blogspot.com/20...ou-can-
eat.html
Mr.Signorile has got this right. It is difficult, sometimes, to be friends with those who are opposed to your basic being. At a national policy level it is intolerable. Hypocrisy and anti-gay stances are foundational to the Bush administration. Racism is also a cornerstone of the Republican party--just consider those loud statements embodied in the Dixie flags flying in red southern states as well as the softer comments that may be heard at suburban cookouts. Do not put too much stock in rich/poor issues--maybe if you are a gay of means you will get a good corner of the boxcar. Dr. Condoleezza is an integral part of this admnistration and if the chips are down, I would not look for her help if it would hurt either her or her boss's career. Also, a little more investigation will probably be revelatory: Ms. Bean pleads economic set backs as a reason for being a co-owner of expensive property with a home improvement line of credit. Both would have to be credible signatories. Therefore, I doubt that either of the two owners are penniless, and, at least one that I can think of, could afford it all on her own, permitting the "dear friend" to house sit while the other still has need for her Watergate condo. Just more cover-up to shield the office husband.
I recently wrote a short play about Condi's evolving sex life, entitled "El Secreto Pesarosa de Condeleezza Rice," which I think humanely deals with her (fictitious) burgeoning awareness as not so much a lesbian or bisexual person rather a kind of non-sexualized living icon, or fulcrum for Bush change. It was originally written for a theatre company in Madrid, hence the Spanish title but the production didn't fly (in 2006) perhaps because of Condi's rumored affair with that female Spanish government official. I make the claim that her 'outing' is of less interest to us, publically, than is her overall disconnect with intimate emotions in general (except perhaps with Mussorgsky.) She did seem predetermined for the Bush White House given, amongst other things, this incredible ability to de-emphasize her 'realness.' Anyway, if anyone wants to read the short piece I'd be happy to provide a link. It's still drafted in English.
Two further comments in response to MS's later posts.
First, it seems to me that your basic point is that (i) Cabinet or high level government position plus (ii) hypocrisy (in stated views or silence on gay issues) yields public exposure. Perhaps that is right, but do we stop there or do we modify (i) to encompass all government political appointees (there are thousands), all Republican members of Congress, and all those who have bankrolled the Bushies?
Second, my prior and overall point is simply that, as important as this issue is, history will record Rice as a disastrous National Security Adviser and Secretary of State. In this context, and given the damage she has done to the country, the gay issue is not as important -- which is certainly not to say that it is unimportant.
Kudos, Michaelangelo--in an administration baptized in hatred and deception, anyone too Machiavelian and cowardly to wear their colors needs to be smeared not only as to who they are but what they are. Strange that the very idea of honor anymore is obsolete; the dissociation that's so literally popular now is more than absentmindedness (ala Gonzo) it's just sociopathic, and turns my stomach.
I would agree, Ms. Rice's sexual orientation is secondary when contrasted against her unblemished record of complete failure in advancing American interests.
In fact, I sometimes wonder if there is anything to be gained in outing such losers. I sure as hell don't want to claim them.
Also, rather than comparing Bushie gays to the Jewish capos, a more apt comparison might be Hitler's brownshirts. To see what ultimately became of them, Google "Ernst Roehm" or "Night of the Long Knives."
Wow this is a hateful site.
If you weren't queer you wouldn't perhaps all this wouldn't be obvious but if you are then its obvious. She decided to hide everything in order to have the world -- I wonder if its worth it? Any the Good Book says:
"What profit a man if he loose her soul and gain the world?"
First, to Patrick & his comment. . .
"I owe it to myself and the community leaders of the past 50 years that helped provide me with my fat lazy ass to sit on while forgetting what they went through to get us as far as we are."
Thank you. As somebody on the front lines in the fight for equality for over 30 years, I really appreciate seeing a young person have some recognition of the price paid. It is rare, indeed.
It continues to absolutely amaze me, as evidenced in so many of these comments, how some gay people will rationalize their lack of character and courage as they lust after money, power, status, toleration, pleasantry, etc.
I recently went through a rough internal emotional battle that finally led me to disconnect with my oldest friend when I discovered from her myspace profile that her "ideal dinner guests" would be almost all of the most glaring homophobes in modern times. She had been my "close friend" , known me, my family and my partners very well for over 38 years.
Once I read her public proclamation, the right decision on my friendship with her was obvious, but it was gut-wrenching for me. Incredibly sad.
Her recent call was "Hope you are doing great. I'll be in town. Let's get together, catch up, have a fun time. I can't wait to see you."
Clearly the result of sharing decades of intimate knowledge of my life and activist work with her was NOT an impediment to her fear & hatred. In fact, one has to wonder if somehow it was an impetus. How very depressing.
Regardless of that cost, once her previously hidden thinking (she was being "kind" to me, you think?) was clear, there was no way I could ever continue the sham of a friendship.
Anybody who would suggest I should/could continue such a parody, would have such a different concept of character and mental health from me that I would have to wonder how we are the same species.
The Condi Rice "friendship" situation articulates the exact same issue with considerably greater force.
It’s not surprising that she isn
’t trying to run for president since she is a closeted lesbian. After all, she could have been the first lesbian president—bush was the second gay one, after Abe.
No we know another thing. Laura is living off-
campus
—so to speak—not because of Condi wanted her dubya, but because he’s getting mounted by Jeff Gannon, and doing icky 3-ways with Karla Rove.
I bet the Corp. of Engineers in N.O. are going to name a dyke after her.
Paul in LA --
Venom against war criminals? Really?
I've never seen much venom expressed against war criminal Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who authorized the explicit firebombing of civilians, in explicit and deliberate violation of the Geneva Conventions that were in force at the time. On top of authorizing the FBI to conduct warrantless domestic wiretaps, having the military execute U.S. citizens arrested on U.S. soil as enemy combatants without giving them a trial, and the rounding up and imprisonment of Americans of Japanese descent on the basis of race.
Obviously, the corporate media must just not be publicizing the efforts of the American left to get FDR off the dime and demolish the FDR Memorial in DC.
Gee, Warmonger, FDR was President over half a century ago. How did you get your assinine, logic-free post from the roller on your Royal to the internet, anyway?
And I don't think you'd get anyone in today's left to sign off on the Japanese-American interment - though your fascist Phillippina girlfriend Michele Malkin wrote a whole book about what a terrific idea she thinks it was.
Oh, and gee whiz, even though it was over a half-century ago, I seem to remember that Germany declared war on the U.S. Funny, but I don't recall any declarations of war coming from or going to Iraq.
Really, the difference between the two situations, including the time frame, are so vast, I'd need a blog just to explain it in language a simp like you could grasp.
But it wouldn't matter, so I won't waste my time; basic logic is clearly beyond your grasp.
I hope I see the day your heroes are put on trial as the War Criminals they are. Chances are, it will never happen though, because they've got so many saps like you snowed and ready to get other people to fight to the death for them.
I wonder how she can fit in that closet with that huge collection of shoes she owns.
Paul:
"Second, my prior and overall point is simply that, as important as this issue is, history will record Rice as a disastrous National Security Adviser and Secretary of State. In this context, and given the damage she has done to the country, the gay issue is not as important -- which is certainly not to say that it is unimportant."
The two issues are inseparable. We lost almost all of our Arabic/English translators to a military "gay purge" and every day we lose a few more soldiers, some of them invaluable and highly decorated officers, because they were once seen coming out of a known gay bar while stateside.
The homophobic stance of the Administration has had a direct and exclusively negative effect on our military in a time of war. They know this, and they keep the ban in place, because not a single one of them cares about the military or the troops; but they all care about whether "the base" will stay home for the next election if they allow gays to serve openly.
Priorities, priorities.
I agree with the point about 'what does it say about the friends.' I think a lot of people earnestly believe that you can separate a person from his or her "politics" or controversial views. How someone feels on a variety of topics makes up what he or she is like to be with, and who he or she is inside
—you can forget about the fact that your husband hates Hillary Clinton because she's a mouthy woman, but it's going to come up in your relationship in ways that have nothing to do with politics. I can not imagine being close with someone who was not only theoretically diametrically opposed to me, but who was actively a part of a political machine whose express goal is to bury me alive.
Thank you, California DP for resisting the urge to cast the first stone (you'd have to fight your way through this mob to cast any stone). What self righteous pompous jerks, who believe one cuts loose friendship with those who disagree politically, and have acheived a position of power that most of those behind these commentaries would probably abuse way more than she (by rewarding those of likemind and punish those who aren't). There are a few gay people, i was surprised to learn this, who actually supported the republican stand despite its known anti-gay rhetoric because they fear the fundamentalist Islamist stand on homosexuality even more, and have expressed the need to support thse with the strongest stand on terrorism. So if we are talking ideologies, let us examine those who are critical of our policies, but completely silent when it comes to condemning the mass slaughter done by those non-Christian religious fanatics, probably because they claim to be anti-US, anti-Zionist, anti-imperialist. Talk about self hatred! You all who are quick to condemn, open your own eyes and question your own collective blind loyalties.
This case is probably one of those that falls into the "maybe" category.
If anything, the big target for cases like this should be on the GOP elites' continued duplicity in knowing lots of gay people in private (but not "privately") yet having a public face set against them.
Just pointing out their hypocrisy *in general terms* might be sufficient. "We know you know gay people [without saying who], why do you find them unworthy of hate crimes protections and marriage?" It's a steady pressure campaign that will be harder for them to sidestep, right?
Some conservative commentators, post-Rove, are already in the camp of 'stop attacking the gays' and 'stop trying to win elections by vilifying gay life, gay people, and gay marriage'. Perhaps they just need to be pushed along, at this point. It's arguable that requesting the ouster of all gay people from the GOP's ranks bolsters the far-right, since it delivers to them exactly the kind of party they would like to see.
True, the commentators rationales I noted are revolting, like "they [the gays] are only hurting themselves", but at least it is a decisive step away from their needing to visibly embrace the religious-right on all issues.
If Condi is not gay, then she obviously falls into the camp of those with close gay associates. However, as far as a ranking of her *personally* among those with the most virulent anti-gay attitudes, publicly or privately, she doesn't seem to be at the top of the vitriol list, unlike her boss, perhaps.
Separately, there is plenty else to dislike politically about Dr. Rice, without emphasizing the gay/straight divide...
As to whether Condi herself is gay - well, we'd need more than gay-by-association. Also, has she done anything for gays and lesbians at the State Department (I don't know, except for the appointee to the Global AIDS fund, maybe)? And WHATEVER she has done, no one is going to pass out top honors to her as much as say, Fred, above, who has been working for 30 years, openly as part of a vanguard.
Remember, we're talking about someone who described war and bombings and the deaths of thousands as "the birth pangs of a new Middle East."
So Rice's decision to work for people who would imprison her friends for being gay isn't exactly a big stretch.
I completely agree with those critical of CR's "liberal" wealthy friends. How can any gay man or liberal woman in good conscience be a friend of someone so opposed to the rights of glbt people or to a legal medical procedure such as abortion. Dear god.
Class solidarity, as someone noted way up there in the comments, is more important than anything, I guess. Feh!
"Wow this is a hateful site."
Isn't it FABULOUS!!!
" This case is probably one of those that falls into the "maybe" category."
Maybe what?
Maybe she wouldn't kill you if given half the chance?
"As to whether Condi herself is gay - well, we'd need more than gay-by-association."
As the women who went to college with her.
Go ahead. I'll wait.
I'm just throwin' up other ways to react. Doesn't mean I'm any less angry and disappointed than anyone else.
I'm not for Republicans (probably less than some even here). Trying to saddle the gay rights movement with 'ending the Republican Party' is probably too big a stone to carry, though. I'd just assume use all the tools possible to get them to change - in the end, rather than disappear, they will most likely captitulate, just as they did with Civil Rights legislation in the 60s, for which many of them voted.
So 'all the tools' includes people fighting from the inside and people fighting from the outside, etc., etc. It's just a question of knowing how best to fit all the pieces.
What would be the best thing that you could hope for Dr. Rice, if you take a step back, in terms of the gay rights movement? At this point, for the mid-term, would it be to co-opt her for the gay-rights movement? It might be nice to have her roladex available, one way or the other, to the HRC and others, especially if solidarity with international gay rights movements continues to take a higher profile.
I just read Michael's piece of Michael Huffington - is there some way to ease people out of the closet into a constructive and contributory role, without turning them into a whipping post right off the bat? If someone has made poor choices in pursuit of "power" or "wealth" or "position", wouldn't it be wise to try to recycle whatever capabilities they may have developed, rather than just shove them under?
I don't have any illusions that such a 'nice guy' routine won't cut it for a lot of folks who are either just hard-hearted bastards or not interested in much besides themselves or just "being left alone". But, I'm not 100% sure that Dr. Rice is in that category. Maybe she is.
We are so immersed in corruption that we forget that fascism is made of a cluster of perverse traits: nationalism(the"Homeland"/Fatherland'), corporate priority, defiling of Human rights, scapegoating, militarism, etc. and that this is not new in history. Rice is a crony of Rove, Delay, Bush and all of the monsters in this cadre of criminals. There is no chance of disconnect(M.S.) Look at Gonzolas! he couldn't even do his job: As a part of the gang, hypocrisy is not the least of her faults but it bears being pointed out especially by the the victims of scapegoating(queers). It's easy these days to make poor choices in pursuit of "power" or "wealth" or "position". It always has been. For a "doctor" she's made some god-aweful choices. And she's had plenty of chances to change.
We could as well go in the prisons and pick the most talented murders and gansters to retrain. I'm sure they are as"talented"as Rice. And certainly they haven't commited the crimes that she has and has colluded in.
ps. Jane Smily just posted arelevant comment:
"The Republican Party now seems to work like a gang, in which the most valued qualities in members are loyalty to the gang and the leader, obedience to authority, and violence toward outsiders."
on Huffington
Jan, a few comments on your post:
There are a few gay people, i was surprised to learn this
[no doubt]
who actually supported the republican stand despite its known anti-gay rhetoric because they fear the fundamentalist Islamist stand on homosexuality even more, and have expressed the need to support thse with the strongest stand on terrorism.
[The rightwing and the corporate media has done a very good job of making it seem as if abuse by Christians or death by Islamists are the only choices. There are other, better choices, but you really have to work to find out what they are.]
So if we are talking ideologies, let us examine those who are critical of our policies, but completely silent when it comes to condemning the mass slaughter done by those non-Christian religious fanatics
[and where do you see any of "them" here?]
probably because they claim to be anti-US, anti-Zionist, anti-imperialist. Talk about self hatred!
[I didn't realize that being a good American automatically requires I be uncritically supportive of every U.S. policy, pro-Zionist, and pro-Imperialist. Maybe that's where we differ, Jan. I thought the original idea of America was to offer people an alternative to lockstep identities and ideologies.]
You all who are quick to condemn, open your own eyes and question your own collective blind loyalties.
[My collective blind loyalties? To whom or to what, Jan? Could you give me an example? Please, tell me what I'm thinking. Explain my positions to me. Hell, tell me what I'm wearing and what I had for breakfast today while you're at it. Tell me my favorite sexual position, too. You folks seem to know so much about me and how I think and live, I want to hear all about it.]
Now, a few questions for you, Jan:
What does your post have to do with Condi Rice's strange social life and the phenomenal and ethical issues surrounding those gay people who associate with her?
That aside, have you every argued a point strictly on its own merits, without creating fictional opposing points of view and fictional people who espouse them?
Can you grasp that some of us who are critical of U.S. foreign policy and "anti-terrorist" policy feel that for us to sink to the level of our enemies - i.e. torture, unlawful imprisonment, etc. etc. basically leaves us with nothing to fight for except the freedom to shop?
Additionally, many of us accept the fact-based conclusion that the more brutal tactics employed by our own government not only rob our country of the moral high ground in this battle, but they've also been proven ineffective in combating ideology-based violence - can you comprehend this as a point of view?
Is it possible for you to comprehend that people's viewpoints may differ from topic to topic and that lumping everyone who disagrees with you into one lockstep ideology is not only lazy, but inaccurate and unproductive?
This is an old story that's been kicked around for a while. The new revelations are interesting, but they only seem to prove as much as a person is willing to assume. They own a home together? Interesting. The bigger question is whether they live in it together or moreover use it for private romantic liaisons. Well nothing seems to suggest or prove that. They have a line of credit together. Well that is neat, but what does it prove? There is still far too much assumption and way too much schadenfreude. To someone on the left this must be even more delicious then the whole John Edwards fiasco over his comment about Americans getting rid of their SUV's at a speech where eh drove up in an SUV.
I once thought of going into the house flipping business with my best friend, but now that I know it means the assumption of homosexual activity I might have to reconsider. HA!
"Rice's "closest female friend" is a woman named Randy Bean (pictured here), who is unmarried and whose sexual orientation is not stated. She is described as a "liberal progressive..."
You could at least praise her for being open-minded enough to shack up with a progressive liberal. I mean come on.
> What is so maddening about these wealthy Republican types is how casually they socialize and befriend the very people they would literally shackle and send to prison
No, what's amazing is how so-called "Liberal types" think, somehow, there should be different standards for anyone who is Republican and gay vs. "liberal" and gay. It's OK to be a gay Democrat, but oh, dare anyone be a gay Republican, well, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!
If Condi was gay, WTF should you care? *I* damned sure as hell don't, nor does anyone I know who classifies themselves as "Republican" or "conservative" and not -most- of the ones who call themselves "religious".
SHE'S GETTING JUDGED BY THE QUALITY OF HER JOB, not her Blackness nor her Gayness. *You* don't approve? Tough sh**.
What a bunch of absolute hypocrites some people are!
I have news for you -- AMAZING though it no doubt is, MOST PEOPLE AREN'T THAT RELIGIOUS. There is a SPECTRUM of religious attitudes, and liberals DON'T have a lock on the middle ground. Not even close. Hell, they don't even manage to stand NEAR it.
Further, one can certainly FIND A DIFFERENCE between ACCEPTING a behavior and ENDORSING it.
There's a difference, and liberals need to grasp that, unlikely though I find that chance to be, them being utterly clueless and self-centered and all that.
One can ACCEPT people being gay without finding a need to encourage or support it. It's the difference which liberals miss, when they just instantly equate not supporting gay marriage and sending gays to the gas chamber.
The two behaviors MIGHT have a glaringly self-evident line between them to anyone who isn't a total whackjob. Hint: One does not encourage someone being gay ("I don't approve"), the other *exterminates*. A -small- difference to a liberal mind, I grant, but -- trust me -- a significant one to anyone else.
As far as someone not liking the fact that someone else might not approve of a choice they make, well, tough.
That's (oddly enough) part of living in a *free* society -- You make choices -- Those choices STILL HAVE CONSEQUENCES -- Some have big ones, some have little ones. The "Free" part comes from being able to MAKE those choices, not from them being "free of consequences".
Choosing to be gay (sorry, it's still a *choice* to ACT on your interests in that regard) is one of those things which have bigger consequences. At some point, that may change. I don't see it happening soon.
If someone chooses not to take baths more than once a month, they probably won't get to have a job which pays them $10,000 a month.
"Oh, but this is sex, you don't have control over that!" Really? I think if a male finds a female attractive -- sexually appealing -- and she does not reciprocate, and he decides NOT to control his expression... what then? It's called rape and he winds up in jail, that's what. Most men CHOOSE to rein in any such desires, thankfully.
A choice. A consequence. You make choices, you take the consequences of those choices with them. If you don't like the consequences, you can try and convince people that those consequences are wrong -- BUT YOU DON'T GET TO DICTATE TO OTHERS WHAT THOSE CONSEQUENCES SHOULD BE, EITHER. That's the "free" part.
You have to accept that society as a whole -- not some **limited group** of people (let's call them "gay-supporting liberals", or "The Aristocracy", or "Dictator Grundy's Entourage"... whatever) -- chooses what the consequences of many choices are.
"Well nothing seems to suggest or prove that. They have a line of credit together. Well that is neat, but what does it prove? "
Manifest proof of carpet munching.
If Condi was gay, WTF should you care? *I* damned sure as hell don't, nor does anyone I know who classifies themselves as "Republican" or "conservative" and not -most- of the ones who call themselves "religious".
It's that old Republican favorite "I Don't Care" -- which of course is right up there with "The check is in the mail" and I promise not to come in your mouth."
"SHE'S GETTING JUDGED BY THE QUALITY OF HER JOB"
And she's doing a Really Shitty Job!
What self righteous pompous jerks, who believe one cuts loose friendship with those who disagree politically
its called "integrity", give it a try.
by rewarding those of likemind and punish those who aren't
hm, that sounds familiar....
face it, jan, CONDI CRUNCHES COOTER.
Wow. Yuck. Listening to the self-righteous raw HATRED spewed here, and laughably called "integrity" by a commenter previous, sure as hell makes me glad I went conservo. You guys are just fucking sick, sick, sick. I tell ya: As a gay man I have found next to no intolerance from the righties I cavort with and seething, insane hatred from gays & lefties who find out I'm a rightwinger. Man...How can you not see how freakin' nuts you guys are?
I get confused by this stuff.
The term "radical Center" defined the small group of nut jobs who thought that their one issue should be absolutely definitive for everyone.
Really, I support gay marriage, if done legally, and in California that means by initiative. It is not as important as many other things to my mind, especially since the terrorists would murder homosexuals just on general principle.
It is not as important as winning the war, supporting our allies in Iraq and Afghanistan in that war, lowering taxes, preventing socialized medical monopoly, are depriving honest people of their civil rights to own firearms.
If Condi is black, white, red, brown, I don't care. If she is hetero, bi, homo, or asexual, I don't care.
And neither should you. Shame! How can you set an example of bringing back the witch hunt as a means to influence policy? Do you have any idea what kind of tool you are helping to legitimize?
Shame on you!
One idea you left wingers are way off on, conservatives and republicans would 100 to 1 vote for Condi against Hilary.
I agree with vetter, noone on the right has the kind of hatred the left shows.
i cant believe these nutcases who think that radical islamic law is about to be imposed on The United States Of America.
these people truly have a daddy fetish.
....& i love that "either-or"...either be killed by radical "Christians" or killed by radical "Muslims"...are your horizons so limited that that those are the only futures you can imagine?
...& i'm supposed to feel better that its the radical "Christians" who are killing me instead of the radical "Muslims"???
truly rooty tooty nutcakes.
You know, every time I lean away from outting on practical grounds because someone above uses it as an excuse to start calling all Republicans "Nazis" and whatever, someone like "Oh Bloody Hell" comes along and I think, gee, you know, there may be a lot of people who really - really - haven't taken the time to examine their own beliefs.
If Condi was gay, WTF should you care? *I* damned sure as hell don't, nor does anyone I know who classifies themselves as "Republican" or "conservative" and not -most- of the ones who call themselves "religious".
Yeah, if that were true in general, why do we have such a hard time in this country getting rights, including gay marriage - both regilious and civil, hate crimes legislation, employment non-discrimination, immigration rights, and equal opportunity?
More precisly put, it is BECUASE everyone else "cares", that we are forced to look around at things.
Clinton didn't have a problem appointing an openly gay ambassador. When is the GOP going to stop its duplicity of having gay people around, but just not saying so? We know they exit.
i cant believe these nutcases who think that radical islamic law is about to be imposed on The United States Of America
---------
you and me both.
every now and then I pop in to read some of the disgusting stuff at LittleGreenFootbals.com; yet it is the NYTimes they want to sue over the moveon.org ad.
nutcakes doesn't cover it.
Michelangelo and readers,
Let me start of by saying that I enjoy political dialog – yes there is some of it here amongst the fire bombing. I have the belief that any battle (military, social, political, business) one has to look at all sides and see where we are winning and losing and where we can make progress. That means taking the fight to different groups with different tactics and different metrics.
I would like to concentrate on the issue of should gays be friends, associates, co-workers, church members with those that do not agree with all of our LGBT "political positions". Not on Iraq or the war/economic policies of G. Bush.
I realize there is a difference between Sec of State and lowly (and lovely I might add) government employee. But, we all have our spheres of influence whether you are a gay radio host that makes his living by bringing in the ratings or a gay engineer that makes his living working for the Navy.
Who are those rich republicans? Check out the HRC’s list of 100% LGBT companies like American Express, Bain, Goldman. LGBT is making progress because we are a visible part of society and corporations. At the Reaching Out MBA conference and every year at MBA schools, corporations are tripping over each other to wine and dine LGBT students. Yet many of the CXO’s of these big companies are the ones that cut the checks to republicans. Why? Republicans have the lower tax, less regulation perception. They vote with their big issue - money. Yet many of these rich republicans are pro gay rights. Do we do better working beside them? Talking to them? Bringing our partner to the company retreat?
I see this as a multiple front battle for our rights. Wining over liberal democrats only gets us so far. Are we going to win over wingnuts on the right? Probably not in my lifetime. But I want to fight for that 60% in the middle. Those are the ones that we need to talk *and listen* about why ending Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, Immigration Equality, Marriage Equity are so important to us.
Look at Richardson, he probably has done more for LGBT rights than the other candidates yet when he said being gay was a choice we were looking for blood—I’m not too young to remember that we used to debate that issue – Kinsey scale.
If the Sect of State, in a Republican Administration that has been the poster child of the religious right. introduces one of her co-workers and his partner AND his parents-in-law at a searing in ceremony, I view that as good for us and yea for her! Those in the middle see that and it matters. And it sends a BIG FU to all the wingnuts out- there more than if Madeleine Albright would have done it.
They say only Nixon could go to China. Maybe its only when those on the right agree with our humanity and natural rights that we win. Look at the Jews in America – from not being allowed into schools or owning homes in certain neighborhoods to being a tremendous force in politics –with only about 2% of the
They built bridges with the middle ground and now none of the Republican candidates would dare talk about not allowing people of different faiths marry –yet that as the end of traditional marriage decades ago.
SO for all of you on this BLOG that has compared me to a Jew working for the Nazi’s. You need to take a hard look at the progress we are making because so many of us are out, go to work and live and laugh and cry with people outside the gay enclaves—its called system dynamics and reinforcing loops for the geeks out there.
I try everyday to do what a lowly guy can do to bring equity to me and my family. Wish I had a radio show to do it but since I don’t I will keep being working in a job that I think is important, serving my country, and go home every night to the man I love, and bitch about why he can’t put dishes away to all my co-workers when they talk about their crazy husbands and wives- even if they don’t fully support marriage equity or voted for Bush.
Hugs
Sean, I appreciate all that you do, and if even half of gay people were as loyal and committed as you we'd be light years ahead. Let me further say that the comparision of you to the Nazis was out of line and ridiculous.
I do believe you are very wrong, however, when you say that Rice's swearing in a gay man, or having gay friends means something significant. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what the president himself does and what his policies are. Everything else is stagecraft. Rice's actions are in fact meant to make people like yourself and so-called moderate Republicans believe that it's not so bad to support George W. Bush because even though he's passing that ammendment, well, look at Condi!
It's all part of the p.r. scheme and the dance, the delicate balance they feel they must strike that relies on people who are already pretty deluded, and then they delude them further.. They court the religious right but then need to telegraph to the fiscal Republicans, who might not want to see gays bashed or abortion banned, that, hey, we're really not like that. The Wall Street types don't mind sharing the party with vicious homophobes so long it doesn't look and feel so ugly and heavy-handed. So the administration tries to couch it in "sanctity': of marriage, and we don't disprespect anyone, and blah , blah and then look, our Secy of State swore in someone. Yes, some fundies will get pissed but the fundie leaders understand it and look the other way-- they're getting some real power.
It's a dangerous game because Bush and the Republcians wind up empowering the religious right, helping their movement to grow, even if they don't always get all what they want (they're played too). Then, they drag out moderate Republicans when it comes time for their convention -- Arnie and the gang -- but few of their policies are actually followed (certainly not by Bush), as the White House panders s great deal to the fundies, through every department in the goverment, from HHS to NASA, so we get abstinence only programs and a rejection of the Big Bang Theory, all in the name of God. Just pandering to these people negatively affects our goverment, alters our policies and makes these theocratic forces grow. Everyone who is a leader in the Republican Party is helping that movement to grow. And certainly every Cabinet official is doing so, by enabling Bush, who enables them.
In the face of all that, these good things you point to that some do now and then (a swearing in here or there, news getting out of someone's friend being gay) , they do not do much at all for uss; they actually work toward humanizing them for their own purposes. The only thing that can fundamentaliy change things for us is to get the fundies out of power. And that means not enabling them, from the top down. And this is precisely what Condi Rice is doing, enabling them. Even if it turns out that all of these people at the top are pro-gay from Cond to Cheney to Bush to whoever -- it means nothing unless they stop pandering and begin to drive fundamentals out of politics (literally chase them out and say good bye and that they're sorry they ever brought them in), and then go to rebuild a new party) rather than using them to win elections, and thus using homophobia and expanding the hatred. Yes, the Republican Party needs a major overhaul.
I find it interesting that we're only now finding out about Condi's gay friends. Look at how they kept it hidden for 7 years. Why? Because the base of their party is antigay, and they had to hide, though maybe now they need to show a bit of diversity or feel they can and can weather the attacks. More so, it's proably about the administration winding down and Condi wanting to be more honest so she can actually walk the streets when she leaves this hideous disaster, sort of trying to redo her history before she gets out.. I'm sorry, but until they stop courting these people and bringing them into politics -- at the height of the administrtion -- every one of these so-called pro-gay people is culpable. Condi is responsible for helping James Dobson and Pat Robertson and others to grow. There is no denying that. And they don't care if she swears in a gay guy now and then -- they have the president's policy to count on.
What a whiner. Signorile, no one endorses gay marriage in either party, but you've only throw a tizzy fit over George W. Bush.
You're a fraud, and a coward who believes righteous indignation is a type of virtue.
Matt Sanchez
did anyone in the Bush White House condemn Jerry Falwell's remarks when he said that 911 was brought on by Gays & Lesbians?
So KindaSleazy Rice is a double self hater.
That's news?
no one endorses gay marriage in either party
That's not true, is it?
What's more, the 2006 FMA vote was a deeply hostile action and you could make the case that it was also a matter of right-wing hijacking of the party, since it got out of committee for purely political reasons onto the floor, past a "moderate" GOP Senator who ended up voting against it.
So it does look a little bit more like you who have political blinders on, Matt.
You're a fraud, and a coward who believes righteous indignation is a type of virtue.
Yeah, well, now we know your opinion, but you know what they say about opinions ... Try bringing a little more to the party, next time, eh?
did anyone in the Bush White House condemn Jerry Falwell's remarks when he said that 911 was brought on by Gays & Lesbians?
My recollection is that, after a long period of waiting and perhaps even pressure to respond, they ended up with a statement from the Press Secretary (not even the President) that the remarks were either "inappropriate" or "not helpful" or some such.
So the short answer to your question is "no".
Sean, at the end of the day you're JUST A FUCKING KAPO!!!!!!!!
And Sanchez, you're just a tired old whore
And Sanchez, you're just a tired old whore
David Ehrenstein | Homepage | 09.17.07 - 10:04 am | #
I rest my case. Disgusting.
I recently lost 2 jobs (that I was very good at) consecutively specifically because I am gay to right wing career women who hold Rice (specifically) up as an ideal. They are So. Baptists who's last enclave(six million people) decided officially that it was ok to discriminate on the job against gay people and that gay peole could change if we wanted. It is what Rice represents and what flag she waves that counts; not what is buried in her closet. She's part of an insideous, selfish, death mongering team; don't be fooled. I don't think that anyone should be.
Rootless wrote"""The part that amazes me is her "liberal" friends. How can you remain close to someone who is doing such evil? A lot of what is wrong in the Democratic party is exposed by these comfortable liberals who apparently find class solidarity more important than basic decency.
rootless3019 | 09.14.07 - 6:35 pm | #"""
Typical. A liberal is supposedly open minded, so they can't just admit that they hate people that have different opinions as them, even though thats the truth. The way to do this is to do exactly what the NAzi's did in Germany to the Jews, dehumanize them, call them evil etc... THat way typical liberals like "Rootless" don't have to admit that they are a narrowminded bigot who hates everybody with a different mindset. Nice try.
Now comes cambel who says. . .
liberals "hate people that have DIFFERENT OPINIONS as them" and
"hates everybody with a different mindset"
Are you really so ignorant to think that having an "opinion" or "mindset" that deprives human beings of their very PERSON-HOOD as humans. . .
(gay people who are genetically created with that orientation)
is so freaking innocent ? Is such a trifle as "my 'opinion' is that universal health care is all too close to socialized medicine" OR
"my 'mindset' is that I would prefer to dine where the dress is less (or more) casual."
OR are you (and many others) being comprehensively intellectually dishonest as you hide behind your fear, your hatred, your greed, your attitude of superiority, your wish to continue a system of inhuman oppression?
And you have the unmitigated gall to suggest that liberals mirror Nazis?
I'll tell you this, cambel: gay folks have had enough of hateful mantras like yours being paraded around as respectable, sound, justifiable thinking.
The luxury many of you have enjoyed by residing in the "hate closet" is coming to an end.
hates everybody with a different mindset
ever heard the term "Loyal Bushies"?
Gee, I would think that you right wingers would be proud of the way people fight back. Isn't it part of your compassionate conservatism to attack and colonize and shove Christianity down the throats of the heathens? We want to be just like you, after all.
Oops...sorry Matt...didn't mean to get you excited by talking about things being shoved down throats. Please take a cold shower. It wasn't meant in a sexual way and there was no financial remuneration implied in my remark.
I know how sex and money are just part of the open market ideology of you conservative/sex worker types (speaking of disgusting...)
When it comes to politics, I guess I'd be classified as an Intolerant Liberal and I'm cool with that.
I think my ideas are superior to others' - unless someone can actually give me a good reason to change them. Doing that requires facts as well as logic and some basic compassion for other human beings.
I think David Ehrenstein is worlds smarter than Matt Sanchez, but many times, the two of them are opposite sides of the same coin - lots of name-calling and foot stomping that just looks kind of silly to me. Matt being a whore isn't the issue here, his flabby, self-serving logic is.
Sean wrote a very interesting, respectful and well-crafted explanation of his position. Michelangelo responded with a very respectful, well-crafted (and I think, correct) explanation of the inherent weaknesses in Sean's position.
I still think it's instructive to research the Night of the Long Knives, to understand the dynamics at work when the rightwing says they're okay with Gays. The rightwing is okay with anything and anyone who augments their power. If you look at most rightwing regimes, it really just comes down to a small group of people retaining outlandish amounts of material wealth and having the power of life and death over the majority of the population. The same thing happens in regimes which move too far left, though power is more important than material wealth and it's in service of a utopian ideal of enforced equality.
Myself, I just can't break bread with people who, given a choice between Human Rights for all Humans (including me, their putative "friend') or a few extra bucks in their pocket, opt for the extra bucks. That's just not a friend in my book.
Further, Republican pandering to religious zealots is what has made the choice between full Human Rights for all humans and fiscal "freedom" mutually exclusive.
The success of this tactic has also had the effect of further gelatinizing the Democratic spine, setting our cause back even more years.
It's hilarious how sodomites try to tease me by calling me a fag. It must be a flashback to when you gentlemen were bullied on the school blacktop.
Porn is the world gay men try to imitate in their own lives. For a group that doesn't like to be "judged" you are the most judgmental people around. So angry.
Ehrenstein? You were born in 47 and you're still alive?
Ehrenstein? You were born in 47 and you're still alive?
matt sanchez | Homepage | 09.17.07 - 4:21 pm | #
yeah, & none of his paychecks were signed by Chi Chi LaRue.
I'm not angry. You must be confusing me with your buddy Ann Colter.
Besides, I didn't call you a fag. I implied that you are a whore.
Again, the fag comment would be something you have picked up from your happy go lucky friend Ann. The gal that writes from the non-angry point of view that calls 9/11 widows names.
Speaking of sodomites....I wonder if the Secretary of State has ever had anything shoved in her ass.
Have you committed sodomy Matt? Once a sodomite, always a sodomite. No amount of renunciation will free you of that stain.
You do all realize that you appear to the casual observer to be utterly, offensively insane, right?
Matt,
My biggest problem with you isn't even your opinions - it's that you have no damn class. Whatever your sexual identity or choice of sexual activities are is no concern of mine. Nor am I against sex work of any sort as long as everyone concerned is an adult. And I think people who never go outside the bounds of propriety usually don't end up being very interesting or compassionate people.
My beef with you is that you "close" a chapter in your life, which is fine, and then proceed to crap all over everyone who was a player in that chapter, as well as, by association, lots of people who had nothing to do with your previous career. All of a sudden, a whole lot of people who put money in your pocket in return for services rendered as well as a whole lot of people who never bought a tape or an evening with you are slandered, crapped on, and dismissed.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you the difference between a hustler and an escort, but from the looks of things, I'd say you belong in the former category rather than the latter - that's really too bad, because an escort can stop selling sex and companionship and move onto a different line of work, but hustling is a mentality that I've not seen many outgrow. It's a pretty bleak way to live.
Yeah, I find my fellow gays who crap on you as a "whore" or a "closet case" (I don't see either term as an insult, but more a statement of fact) annoying, but I would have to say, you were the one who started flinging the insults around, and you're the one who thinks nothing of smearing us all and searching out venues in which to do that.
I'm not going to engage in any dime-story analysis regarding why you do what you do, but I think it's too bad.
I don't think there is anything wrong with my response to these remarks:
"It's hilarious how sodomites try to tease me by calling me a fag."
and
"Porn is the world gay men try to imitate in their own lives. For a group that doesn't like to be "judged" you are the most judgmental people around. So angry."
We know that this guy - no matter how he might identify himself - was happy to accept money from men that were sexually gratifying themselves while watching him perform sex acts with other men.
Your sensitivity to remarks that are made about you is brought on by your own actions. Why should you be given more benefit of the doubt than anyone else? Same for Condi. If she has a right to a private life, then she ought to defend my right to liberty as well. I didn't pick a fight with right wing knuckle dragging pseudo-religious corrupt morons, but they certainly like to pick them with me.
I see people like you as a threat. I don't "crap over" I learn evaluate and judge.
As for your ideas of "class" jeez, give me a break. You're infected with the typical leftist, victim "us" "we" and "community" BS when your primary motivation for being "gay" is to get your own personal rocks off.
"Have you committed sodomy Matt? Once a sodomite, always a sodomite. No amount of renunciation will free you of that stain."
I love the sense of "self-banishment" through the "stain" that can't be renounced. It's almost religious.
What a said world you inhabit that you feel you're chained to the opinions and perceptions of other men. No wonder the gay culture is a death cult, there's no hope if depravity is seen as liberation.
No wonder the gay culture is a death cult
matt sanchez | Homepage | 09.17.07 - 7:37 pm | #
oh, is *that* what was going on with Ralph Gonzalez, David Abramid & Robert Drake?
How about this... Maybe, just maybe, Ms. Rice is a realist. She knows that the only way to change anything so deeply entrenched and enshrined in society is to change it from within the halls of power. I'm gay and I like Bush. I don't think he walks on water, he's made lots of mistakes including his pandering to the unjust demands of the religious right, but for most part I like him anyway. I feel the same way about Condoleezza.
Matt, What would you know about gay life? You're not gay, you're not even homosexual, you say. The only experience you have of gay life is one that involved the exchange of money for homosexual sex.
That's like me chugging a sixpack of Mad Dog and proclaiming myself a wine expert. Gimme a break here, boy! You're not even getting a taste of gay life as our punching bag, because the only gays you're interacting with are us guys who've decided to take on the job of trying to push America into the late Twentieth Century - something you've decided you're opposed to, though I can't imagine why.
So now, you know the gay sexwork world, and a tiny bit of the gay activist world, though only in oppositional mode. Figure we're ten percent of the population according to Kinsey, with another percentage of that actually identifying as homosexual or lesbian.
That's an awful lot of people, pal. A lot of different backgrounds and interests. Hell, I've been gay-identified for 23 years, sexually active for 35, worked in mainstream and gay journalism for 20 years and I feel I've only just scratched the surface of what being a homosexual in a heterosexual world means. You've figured it all out based on a few Falcon videos (btw, generally recognized as the meanest company in the business) and a few thousand "dates" with clients?
Wow. You're quite a wizard there. You might want to consider broadening your research a bit before you comment on Gay men and the world we're trying to "imitate."
And yeah, I'm gay because after exploring intimacy with women and intimacy with men, intimacy with men feels like the right thing for me. It feels natural, and intimacy with women didn't. If that's "getting my rocks off" to you, then that's fine. I like getting my rocks off.
Once you learn to separate it from a bunch of ridiculous theorizing as well as from the requirements of commerce, you might find that you like it, too. You also might find that it's so great, you'll get more out of sharing it than selling it.
Christopher,
I think your friend Condi is a realist in that her priority is Condi. I mean, from the looks of things, Condi is exceptionally risk-averse when it comes to Condi's welfare. It looks to me like as long as things are okay for Condi, things are okay with Condi. Of course, I can't contain my curiosity over why you like Condi and W.
I mean, why in the world do you like someone who has lied to you repeatedly, squandered your money by diverting it to his friends, run up a huge debt in your name in the process, slaughtered over half a million innocent people in your name, jeopardized your safety under the guise of making you safer, and gone out of his way to make nice with people who want to see you dead?
I mean, maybe you think he's cute. Maybe you think Condi's funny or entertaining. Fine, but I think you might want to reconsider the wisdom of giving them that much say over your welfare and that of the world.
I mean gee, Chris, I think Lindsey Lohan is gorgeous and talented, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give her the keys to my Escalade.
My mom used to say about people like George and Condi that "they are pleasant, they are not nice." Because in my book, Chris, nice people don't send other people's kids off to die in fake wars. They don't give taxpayer's money away to their friends. They don't torture people. They don't invade countries who haven't done anything to us. They don't lie. Nice people just don't do things like that, creeps do. Of course, Creeps can be pleasant conversation. They can even be good for a few laughs. But no matter how much fun they are, they're still creeps...
I'm sure you can do better...
Fred said ""I'll tell you this, cambel: gay folks have had enough of hateful mantras like yours being paraded around as respectable, sound, justifiable thinking.
The luxury many of you have enjoyed by residing in the "hate closet" is coming to an end.
Fred | 09.17.07 - 2:29 pm | #
Fred, Considering I'm gay, my boyfriend owns a gay bar and he and I have danced together at every straight wedding and every company picnic at my job please deal with the real fact...that once again, you hate me because I have a different opinion than you since I'm obviously not in the "Hate Closet". Instead of spewing your vitrol at everybody with a different opinion than yours why don't you try accepting the fact that you are just as narrowminded as everybody else out there, you just try to paint your opinions as sainted therefore you can't be called narrowminded for hating everybody that dissagrees with you. So next time you see two guys walking through town holding hands it's probably my boyfriend and I, take a good look, thats what people you claim are in the closet look like. Sorry we don't fit into your narrow definition, you'll have to find another reason to excuse your hate for me now.
cambel: it's great that you live in this wonderland where gay couples can happily dance and do all the things that you do.
That is your "closet", simply because outside of it people suffer and go to jail and lose jobs and sure as hell can't hold hands without a gun for protection. Do you keep track of the death rate of the thousands of innocent civilians who die because of American oil interests in Iraq-no! they are outside your "closet". Do you even know if your phone is tapped or is it easier not to think of.
It requires the quality of mercy and empathy beyond your comfortable miasma of propaganda and your rare & mythical bubble to conceive of what it is really about.
Well, cambel, the plot thickens, huh?
Admittedly my responding to your post, responding to a post, responding to a post....stuff can get lost in the transactions, and perhaps has.
So you and your partner are proud gay men. Perhaps even earning a living from money spent by your fellow gay people. I'm glad to hear it. Is it safe for us to assume then that you are working hard in your life doing everything possible to beat back homophobia, fear, hate and oppression against yourselves and your fellow gay Americans?
If so, indeed it would not be fair to characterize you two as being in any closet of hate.
If not, regardless of your habit of walking hand in hand on the street, my conclusion would have to be that your hate closet comes equipped with mirrors on all sides to give you a really clear view of the object of your hate.
I'm hopeful that is not the case.
She values career over marriage, child-rearing, or dating. Inconceivable! Everyone knows that no woman can live happily without children, sex or romance occupying the center of her life. Therefore she must be a closeted dyke or sleeping with a married colleague. Just like Oprah, Martha Stewart, and every other ambitious female who makes her way to the top of her field. Great column. Very progressive. Thanks!
Cambel, I also travel in a world where I can be myself - I don't live in a gay ghetto, nor do I socialize in one. I'm very blessed in that way because just as I loathed growing up in white suburbia, I would loathe growing old in Gayland. But we're lucky, man. Our lives are partly the result of decisions we made and partly the result of sheer luck, which in my case translated into social mobility; despite all my best efforts, I remain "presentable."
But I know so many people who aren't "presentable" and never will be - because our definition of "presentable" is still so damn narrow and not everyone can pull it off, no matter how they dress or speak or move. I don't want the world to forever be a place where most people can't look beneath surface aspects to evaluate the quality of a person's heart, or at the very least, grant them the dignity to get through their lives with a minimum of unnecessary hassle.
To me, that's part of being a liberal. The reason I despise conservative opinions so deeply - besides the constant war, despoilation of the environment, auctioning off people's personal freedom, and the general waste - is that any non-conformity - even the kind that one has little or no control over - is seen as something to be punished. The people Condi aids and abets are those people...
I imagine she and her friends have a nice little intimate life, completely unconcerned about what her work is exacting from millions of other people who are not so educated and clever.
Condi and pals should be grateful. They are very lucky. It would be really cool if they realized that.
It is alway amazing to me how the very people who claim to be fighting for equal rights and liberal causes are actually the most blatantly homophobic, discriminatory, and mean people I have ever encountered. This article and these comments are further proof. It appears that Condi is something most of you will never ever be in your life--a decent human being.
Cry me a river, Todd.
In response to the person who said that left wingers were more vicious than right-wingers, I have a story to tell you.
I attend a Catholic university. It was my frehsman year, the 2004 election. I had not even considered my sexuality yet, but had a John Kerry sticker on my message board outside my room. The bumper sticker was ripped off, and things were written on my board like "dyke-kisser", "baby killer", and comments I wouldn't even repeat to a sailor. The girl was, and is, very conservative. It turns out, the writer of these comments was my roommate. I moved out a month later. My RA didn't do anything...She was the president of the Right to Life club on campus. Go figure. I guess a liberal's life isn't important, once they've been born.
What's worse is that now that I am out, she will not even acknowledge my presence, even when some of my more conservative friends are accepting and supportive.
Generalizations are easy, but discernment is a true gift. Work on it, everyone!
Peace Out
A JOKE
So in a rowboat there was Gandhi
And Condoleeza, known as Condi,
Yet, losing buoyancy, they think
Perhaps the boat´s about to sink.
"There is not room for both of us"
Says one; the other makes no fuss.
Says Condi: "You remain on board,
Great Saint, in Satyagraha moored."
Before he has the chance to thank her,
She says, "Here comes my oil tanker
(The one that was in all its pride
Named after me): I´ll hitch a ride!"
A Nov. 15 2007 AP story indicates Chevron was fined $30M by the SEC for bribing Saddams’s thugs in the “oil for food” deal and that Chevron may face tax evasion charges later. The bribes were in the millions so someone pretty high up at Chevron had to sign off on the payments. Unfortunately the AP story did not mention Dr. Condoleezza Rice the Chevron board member and the chairman of the “Public Policy Committee” which is responsible for making sure this kind of activity does not happen.
The Chevron website says the committee’s purposes include “identifying, evaluating and monitoring social, political and environmental trends, issues and concerns”, “analyzing how public policy trends could impact business activities and performance". Dr. Rice never discussed the Iraqi bribes on the record (not in the minutes) at company meetings. That should not surprise anyone who is familiar with her lack of response to 911 warnings.
President Clinton put sanctions on Iraq. Actions by Chevron and Rice clearly violated those sanctions and amount to treason. I urge our new Attorney General Michael Mukasey and California Attorney General Jerry Brown determine who at Chevron authorized the millions in bribes.
Ellis Goldberg
Danville CA
Here's my theory: Condi was pegging Gannon while Boy George watched.
Rove was the towel boy.
She's made a career of doing anything to align herself with the powerful. ANYTHING. So who can say where she draws the line? Is there even a line?
Ultimately the only question will be if she's a war criminal or only a collaborator with war criminals. Relative to that, her sexuality doesn't matter anymore than whether she's left- or right-handed.
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