This is a really premature thing to say. I think we should wait for all the facts before coming to any conclusions. With any claim, knowledge and understanding makes your argument better.
As for second degree murder, it's basically murder that is not premeditated. So an unplanned murder.
True re the first paragraph.
Second degree murder should apply if the decision to kill was spontaneous, if I understand it. If the murderer, on the other hand, was planning to kill in advance, no matter who the victim appeared to be, it should be different. But probably wouldn't...
When new information comes to light, the charge can change to first degree murder. At the moment, the police have to determine there is evidence that indeed Vince Li did set out to commit premeditated murder.
Your "Koran" quote sounds dubious to say the least.
The crime shows no signs or evidence of being premeditated which is why it is 2nd degree murder (and not 1st degree) which in Canadian law is 10 years before allegible for parole. If this murder was planned and deliberate from the beginning then it would be 1st degree murder.
This case is still in its early stages so I wouldn't become too keen to smear the Muslims just yet.
This killer acted like a robot where something "triggered" inside his mind at a particular time.
LI has not spoken you idiots! that is false
come on man, his name is no close to a muslim, what he did everyone has seen it,, but question is why he did it no one knows . he isnt even talking to anyone properly.. it doesnt mean that if anyone behead someone then quickly blame muslims or keep saying things like it is motivated through quran. lets wait and see what is actually the truth any thing before that will be act of foolishness and stupidity.
So if Li is a "muslim" why was he attending a baptist Church?
"Li and his wife Anna found a home near downtown Winnipeg shortly after coming to Canada. He was hired as a forklift driver, while she began working several waitressing jobs at Chinese food restaurants in the city.
The couple began occasionally attending church services at a Baptist church, which opened the door to other social opportunities.
Li worked at the church and its attached schoolhouse as a night custodian for a time, but left his job about four years ago."
Winnipeg Free Press:
http://www.canada.com/topics/new...ec-
50d4e11044ac
What I wonder is if Li is in fact a chinese national.If he is I think he should be deported to China, executed, and harvest for his organs.
I do think it was a big mistake for the Mounties not to Shoot his Ass DEAD on the scene while he was taunting police with the head of the victim.I personally believe that the (so-called) *insanity defense* should be inadmissible for defendants accused of murder.
It hasn't been mentioned much in the Press but the Chinese do have a Muslim minority and the government has been having problems with them (name a country with a Muslim minority who doesn't have problems with them).
In March one of those Chinese Muslims (Uighurs) tried to hijack a plane.
So, it just could be "the Religion of Peace" at work again.
Check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1...h?
v=1oetTmX_iLM
Jay, your post is laced with ignorance and bigotry--you should research the facts before making such wild and unfounded (and 100% incorrect) assumptions about Li's faith. Your hatred sickens me almost as much as this horrible beheading.
As to the unplanned nature of this murder, who JUST HAPPENS to have a knife, on his person, large enough to remove a human head? We're talking major surgery here---through lots of muscle and the spine.
I'm thinking this guy must have been planning to kill SOMEONE!
Shawn, thanks for the update, but the link you put here seems to be broken.
What, you don't believe that Chinese Muslims exist?
Beijing alone has 68 mosques.
Hey do you want the recipe for Infidel Cookies?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9...h?
v=9f7_O9x65E0
Good Cookies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4...h?
v=4H7UXLM74Uw
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/...destroy-
us.html
It's not only Canada, but look at what is happening in the UK!
http://tinyurl.com/
ukinvitingext...ingextremistism
Islam seems to be Uniting the World.
Uniting the world against Islam!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J...h?
v=JU5yozVaS5E
Here is another good video about the "Religion of Peace" (TM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6...h?
v=6o7HxhAc5Zs
Anonymous, thanks, but that would be enough.
Several news reports translated from Chinese indicate Li was a Chinese Muslim. Also the Chinese Army has deemed the Chinese Muslim minority the biggest threat to the Olympic Games.
This is an absolute premeditated murder. Why the hell he's carrying a butcher knife for ????
Muslim's beliefs are questionable..Aren't they ???
Being an atheist myself, Anon, I would say that to me any religious belief is questionable, but it's hardly relevant to the case in question.
As soon as I heard about the crime, I thought the 'extreme right' are going to brand this guy Muslim.
Sure enough it happened and everyone is happy to believe it.
not even the most extreme Muslim groups condone cannibalism. this would be a case study for wendigo psychosis
Chinese muslim have regular names like other Chinese, There is nothing in a name to tell a muslim chinese from the Wei group which are muslim, but RCMP privately released that he was muslim. And it was also said that he did because of the Koran told him to do it. Go to CBC forum third most is by a a person arabia saying and watching if a muslim is blamed, you tell he is muslim by his lack of debating skill and being brainwashed, if you ever debated a mulims about islam/koran, they all say the same stupid things they are told at Friday Prayers, like murder everyone, this is what self hating muslims do when sucide bomber comes along in the name of Islam, Koran should be banned under human rights law in Canada to see if it is hate literature, or murders ranting of a child molester Mohammend to raped a 9 year old girl he called his wife mohammand was 50 years old, his wife ashia say this in the haditha, Mohammand married 10 wifes all under the age of 10, this is from the koran
Edited By Siteowner
This is a really premature thing to say. I think we should wait for all the facts before coming to any conclusions. With any claim, knowledge and understanding makes your argument better.
As for second degree murder, it's basically murder that is not premeditated. So an unplanned murder.
JH | 02.08.08 - 1:59 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
n regards to the comment of SnoopyTheGoon
"You wroteL Second degree murder should apply if the decision to kill was spontaneous, if I understand it. If the murderer, on the other hand, was planning to kill in advance, no matter who the victim appeared to be, it should be different. But probably wouldn't..."
That is incorrect, but yours is a common misunderstanding. I write this to inform, not to criticize your comment.
In America, first degree murder is often also called premeditated murder. The term premeditated can easily make one conclude that the murder must have been planned out far in advance of the moment of killing, but that is untrue. All it means is that when the murdered attacked the victim, he or she had the intention of killing him or her. It does not seem difficult to argue that a person who stabbed and beheaded another person had the intention of killing them. I do now know what Canadian law mandates but I just wanted to comment on this common misunderstanding.
Li must be a paranoid. A few years ago, he started to feel that someone was following him.
When he starts to suspect something, he takes it as real, and can hardly be persuaded. That is common for a paranoid.
Li smoked and talked with the victim at a station, during the talk, he believes that the victim was the one who's following him.
He had prepared a knife to protect himself. Now, it's time to use it...tragety off course.
Li moved to Canada from China with hope, but he did not get what he hoped. He started to suspect his ability. To diverse this suspision, he started to imagine someone was doing harm to him...
Christine, thanks - it was helpful. You put this in terms I can grok.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news....html?
id=699558
there should be a working linking to him having attended and worked at a baptist church...
"A Chinese Muslim, Li expressed to investigators that his actions were motivated by the Koran." The fact that they removed this statement does not make it false. It's likely they removed it so as not to "offend" anyone, particularly Muslims.
How they concluded the murder was not premeditated is also lame. He brought a knife and scissors for a reason, not just in case. He planned to kill someone, he just wasn't sure who.
As for the dribble about his being paranoid, the passengers all said he was calm, even like a robot. Also, how would his being "paranoid" explain his displaying the head or eating bits of his victim?
It's obvious that there is an effort to suppress any information regarding his motives. The fact that the statements about his being a Muslim are being altered only reinforces the likelihood that the statements are true.
Vaughn, that reverse logic you employ at the end could have been true. However, a Muslim attending a baptist church is a bit hard to believe. Nah... doesn't work for me.
Snoopy, it's possible that he was not yet a Muslim. Perhaps he was trying to make a good impression by attending services or just trying Christianity out. He quit his job at the church in 2005 and moved to Edmonton. Incidentally, Edmonton is home to the first Mosque built in North America and has a Muslim population of roughly 30 thousand people. Despite the political correctness, due to the sensitive nature of the issue, it is still very possible that he was "influenced" by the Koran, as the RCMP stated.
We should note that they didn't correct themselves. They simply removed the statement which clearly indicates they did not want it to be made public and were erasing their tracks. It's interesting how such a peace loving people could illicit such fear that a government would go to such great lengths.
Everything is possible, Vaughn. Is it probable in this case, though?
Somehow I doubt it. Besides, no one needs another case of beheading to prove anything at this stage, I think.
I think the killer planned the murder, He just didnt know who to murder and (ugh!) eat.
Why else would he bring a huge Army/Bowie "Rambo" knife with him on a bus?!?!?
He was planning something allright.
Can't disagree with that, dude. Still, we should wait for a while.
I am a Chinese. Let me explain his name: of course Li is his surname; his given name has something to do with Chinese Communist Party and has a background of Cultural Revolutionary during 1966-1976.
Chinese Communist Party calls itself Great, Glorious and Correct. WeiGuang could mean Great and Glorious in Chinese language. During 1966-1976, many Chinese were given a name having RIGHT POLITIC meaning.
It is hard to judge him as a Muslim by his surname. But I am pretty sure Li is not a name for the minority.
Thank you, DZ, it was helpful.
dear god.. every time i think you ignorant lot can't stoop any lower, you prove me wrong.
he is a former church custodian. you are such a dumbwit.
Boonella, dear, whom exactly are you addressing in such an endearing fashion?
The link of this beheader to Islam or Koran is the work of a VERY MISCHIEVOUS AND MALEVOLENT CHARACTER, who himself will be publicly ashamed.
There are only two possibilities. Zionist or a Hindoo or a 911-inside job operator yank.
That makes three possibilities, Dispassionate. Believe me, I have counted.
Wow, many of you managed to take this tragedy and turn it into a religious debate where you've lumped every member of a group together and branded them evil. Nice job.
I don't know much about the Koran religion, I admit. Nor do I know what possibly could have motivated this man to make such a violent attack on someone who we can only presume at this point (unless somebody has info I don't have) he didn't know. However, I can say that I'm disgusted by the prejudice that has been displayed here.
You have managed to take this tragic event and turn it into a reason to bash certain religious groups. You went from discussing the basic topic to generalizing, making assumptions and calling down all memebers of a group based on this one man's act. Who, by the way, we have no "solid" evidence for of religious faith one way or the other. Even if he IS practicing the Koran faith, just because HE committed a horrifying act like this does not mean that the next Koran you meet will do the same or have the same intentions. There are several "Christians" and "Catholics" who have committed similarily horrifying crimes, but that certainly doesn't mean they are ALL bad.
Just my perspective, take it or leave it.
Commenting by HaloScan
