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Spree -- All I can say is Wow! These videos are so damn honest, so moving, so free from stupid political propaganda. I only wonder how a Let's-Surrender-America defeatist liberal could watch these incredibly powerful videos and come away feeling good about themselves.
These wonderful people gave so much of themselves -- so many literaly gave themselves -- to defend our Liberties.
As they themselves said -- how can anyone be some damn cynical and ambitious that they would use this War on Terror for their own selfish political purposes?
Oh, I know what they'll say. They'll say that we Conservatives are using this war for our own selfish political purposes. And they'd be absolutely right. Only our selfish political purposes are to wage a war against terror, not retreat into some hallucinatory world of denial and appeasement.
I'm a proud veteran and my son was an Army Ranger who fought behind enemy lines in the First Gulf War. I desperately followed the newscasts almost 24 hours a day, but I could never find out where he was or what he was doing. So I was worried the whole time he was deployed.
It wasn't until months after he got home that I finally found out what his unit was doing; after that, I was grateful that I hadn't known where they were or what they were doing, or I really would have been worried.
I am tremendously proud of my son, and I am tremendously proud of all of our fine soldiers who are fighting this war to keep us safe.
I am writing these comments for those who might think that I am needlessly advocating an unnecessary war, that I am thoughtlessly trying to put our young people's lives in jeopardy.
Cicero said: "I don't reject peace. But I reject war disguised as peace."
I don't like it. None of those fine people on the videos like it. But damn it all, whether we like it or not we're in a battle for our very existence. And we've to "Wake up America" and cut out all the stupid political BS.
Wow Roger, well said. Thank you and your son for everything you gave for us and thanks for sharing your insight to war, the costs and the triumphs.
I would much rather BE political in a fight to win and help the Iraqi's as well as keep us safe here than to be political to advocate surrendering.
I hate to keep repeating myself, but -- Right on, Spree!
(grins) Thanks Roger!!
I'd just like someone to define what victory in Iraq is.
Victory in Iraq:
Iraqi self government free from a repressive dictatorial regime, free from Sharia law, free from al Queda and Iranian attacks.
An Iraqi government by the people, of the people, for the people of Iraq. An Iraq where people are not afraid to express their views of politics or religion for fear of their heads being removed or their children baked in ovens and served to the families as dinner...
Are these not the same things we have been saying all along? Are these not the things that have been expressed to us as the desires of the majority of Iraqis who thank our troops for our help? Are these not the same things that all men and women who would desire to live in peace and live freely would fight for?
Freedom is a right and a responsibility. It is thus the responsibility of a free people to help other peoples who wish to be free in their fight for THEIR rights to be free.
THAT is victory in Iraq, in my mind.
Thanks for answering that. I had taken a break to stretch.
Always better to have a veteran, like Hawk, answer than anyone. One that HAS put themselves on the line for those very reasons.
Kaye -- I certainly don't want to be rude, but did you actually watch these videos? And if you did, did you somehow miss the part where that wounded Marine very clearly answered that question?
I'll try to make the same point even stronger.
According to recently captured documents, which included messages and letters from senior leaders of Al-Qaeda -- including Ayman Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden and others, the war in Iraq is the central battleground in their efforts to establish a Caliphate in the Middle East.
They intend to work with both Iran and Syria to establish an Islamist Taliban-like state in Iraq, and subsequently in the entire region. They expect that the Democrats will win this battle for the hearts and minds of the American people and that we will, once again, retreat from the field of battle.
Forget about whether WE think the war in Iraq is important to win, just listen to what our sworn enemies have to say about it.
Remember -- they are counting on our pulling our troops out. They are counting on the Democrats winning. They our counting on our lack of will to stick it out.
Kaye, please -- forget for a moment about George Bush and Hillary Clinton and think about this -- Do you really want AL-Qaeda to win?
My pleasure.
Good luck with that, then. According to the troops I've talked to who have been there, including my husband, that's not gonna happen in the Iraq that the lack of planning has created
Both Vets kaye, both have answered in a very specific way.
That is victory and we happen to believe the people of Iraq deserve that.
I fully respect your husbands opinion Kay, but the troops that email me, the interviews I have published, the last of which was Pete Hegseth, as well as the Iraq veterans in those videos, feel differently.
thanks for your pollyanna views of how we WANT freedom to be there. Look at the history of the area, their tribal systems, the impossibly unworkable situation they were put in after ww1, and finally the conditions that we created that are ripe for continuing civil war and the growth of terroism. We would have been safer to keep saddam in place and finish with Afghanastan
We have no pollyanna views of the situation, kaye. You asked for a definition, two were given.
Did anyone say that it would not take hard work? Did anyone say that it would not take a lot of sweat and blood? Did anyone say that it would be easy? Did anyone say that it would be QUICK?
Our convenience store mindset that we have developed in this country, our ATM way of thinking, has led us to have lost one of the greatest of virtues: patience.
Victory, AND freedom, are two obtainable and real concepts for the people of Iraq, as well as the rest of the Middle East (Again, our enemies care nothing for borders, that is something our western minds are limited by) as long as we are willing to help those there who want it.
And they are there.
And before you ask, kaye, yes, if I can get myself back into a condition where I am physically able to reenlist and do so, I fully intend to be my ass right over there helping.
Until then, I help from here.
Look Kaye, everyone has been nice to you and answered your questions honestly and openly, so drop the tude.
First off you cannot expect us to take what you say your husband says any more with any MORE credence than what the dozens of active and former military men, quite a few who have also fought in Iraq.. each opinion is valid but when one says what you say your husband does we also must compare it the dozens we hear from that say differently.
Simple common courtesy.
We have done extensive research into the "area", especially myself who descends from those IN THAT area.
Your opinion is yours and valid as is everyone elses that comments here.
perhaps you should take a look at what they are saying and treat it with the respect they have shown you in answering your question.
Thanks for your help. I'm actually doing some research for my dissertation on tolerance and dissent in the public forum. You've all been very interesting.
So have you and good luck with your dissertation.
Might want to remember for that dissertation that tolerance of dissent is much different than intolerance of basic rudeness.
Hope you do well in your dissertation.
Doesn't it bother any of you that one of the videos says "they attacked us" while talking about Iraq?
Another says that we shouldn't "surrender" in Iraq because "we don't need another 9/11."
Getting out of a country you've invaded after not finding what you were looking for is NOT surrendering.
Even Bush has said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Even Dick Cheney said in '94 that invading Baghdad "would create a quagmire", and that it wouldn't be worth the loss of American life. There are videos online of both statements.
What bothers us the most is that al-qaeda has determined that THEY are going to hold Iraq as their "central point" in the battle... al-Qeada is there and THAT is who we are fighting.
What bothers ME, is that people like YOU completely ignore th logic of that to spew nonsense.
They spoke what THEY know from being there, they were fighting, lets say it in chorus now...AL-QAEDA.
Sorry for being impatient but that game is old.
Dear Spree --
I'm afraid I'm going to have to officially turn in my resignation for this conversation.
You have much more patience than I.
Somehow those wonderful videos have been all but forgotten in this barrage of liberal nonsense, and what started out as an interesting conversation has begun to spin out of the realm of logic.
I'll be back to visit later, after anonymous and Kaye go to bed.
See ya later, Hawk. Don't bother trying to win the argument, it's a lost cause.
Luvya, Spree
Later,
Roger
I understand Roger. Anonymous is gone because we do not ALLOW anonymous postings.
I do understand how frustrating it is to keep having nonsense spewed,but the videos in this post shouldn't be forgotten.
People HAVE to get it through their heads that this is a fight that needs winning.
I would pose a question to the liberals out there:
What "political gain" do the people in these video, get?
2 men who were wounded, 1 woman that lost a child and 1 who lost her husband.
What is THEIR political gain for trying to make the American people see that the risk is worth it to these fine people?
Nothing that I stated was untrue. You called it "spewing nonsense." Nice blog.
Go on, bark "liberals" like a trained dog.
Try searching for "Edward Bernays". That's what I think of these videos.
You haven't answered the question at hand Cecil, WHAT do those men and women in the videos have to gain"politically"?
You cannot answer so you attack.
It IS nonsense because whether you agree with us going to Iraq or not, al-Qaeda is THERE... do you deny that?
Do you deny that al-qaeda is killing people in iraq?
Talk about trained dogs, at least a dog understands right from wrong.
You simply haven't a clue.
Everything you "spewed" was untrue... we ARE fighting al-Qaeda in Iraq right now, al-Qaeda is who hijacked our planes?
Were they the same exact people, NO because those on the planes are DEAD with 3,000 of our citizens.
For that matter, Bin Laden ALSO wasn't on those planes so by your warped logic, HE is unimportant also?
NONSENSE.
These men and women CARE about Iraq and our mission there, they have NOTHING to gain by making those statements.
They have no "political agenda", but you folks cannot handle that they are speaking out, they who have the ABSOLUTE MORAL AUTHORITY on this subject....they have earned it.
For the record, Cecil, I'm not a dog, I go by the name Hawk for many reasons. One of them is "silent swift death from above."
You figure it out...
They're not politicians. They don't have anything to gain politically.
Google: hijackers still alive
Can't stand that those with that gave, lost and suffered are coming out so forcefully, can you Cecil?
They have every right in the world to be heard and have given more than most of us ever can.
You are right though in your answer, they do not have a damn thing to gain politically, they speak from the heart, they understand because they were there, they know who they were fighting every single day while in Iraq.
Tell me Cecil, where do you get YOUR information from?
The TV? The newspapers? Those that "report" from the green zone?
Well, two things I noticed here..."Kaye" is writing a dissertation, huh? Guess who "she" really is...leaves too many clues and is too easy to read.
Also, "Kaye", how 'bout you answer your own question and define Victory in Iraq? For far too long, that has been the 'demand du jour" from the leftist/defeat/Hate America crowd, the gauntlet to be thrown down--and we've answered so often, every single time we've answered.
"They" have not. Not once. Simply because of THEIR lack of having an answer, they feel they can trip "US" up as they have been tripped up repeatedly. WE have done our homework and debated the issues ad nauseum from all sides of the coin so we CAN answer the question. THEY have not.
Well, "Kaye" answer the damned question, answer your own challenge.
As to moral authority, the people in the videos have just as much "moral authority" as your husband...it's NOT just those like your husband and a broken--minded Cindy Sheehan who have moral authority in an issue such as this, but those who have served, lost and still love their country ALSO have moral authority.
Frankly, after Cindy lost her mind over her son's death, it was not the right that exploited that very public breakdown for OUR uses, but the left--and when she was no longer useful, left her out to dry. Do I like her? Not just no, but HELL NO. But she IS a gold star mother. She DID lose a son. Those that exploited her for their OWN political gain need to be criminally prosecuted for what they did to her--those not in their right minds do have legal protection under the law and are not capable of making decisions as to whether or not they wish to be exploited.
To that end, Roger, I thank you and your son. Just as I thank Cindy's son for his service and Kaye's husband for his. However, Roger, you seem to have retained your morals, and your basic core values--something the libs just don't have because they never had a base to build on within themselves to begin with. The way a person is raised is very telling. I've enjoyed reading your posts.
Cecil, go to your research, without your BDS and KOSmonoff points showing, try to learn what objectivity are and then come back to play with the "big boys".
Did GWB let the troll monkeys collecting turtle turds out tonight or what?
I don't know how many times I have told him about that.
Us Texicans need to talk more better.
Just the other night I said that if he commences to trounce trolls to let usn's know first so we can get those turtle turd nets rigged up an all.
Yep. These here vids sure got the mighty fallen moonbats all riled up.
Too bad it won't do them no damn good.
Ok, I'll bite.
Who is kaye?
Same as VAT...raoula
Or, "she" could be snoop's Karen who hates politics but is doing a dissertation...same thought line for all three with the innuendo of public disgrace through their publishing our thoughts and writings--not realizing or failing to recognize not everyone thinks as they do and they're little "cherry crackers" just don't scare us
least it's not wee willie winkie...
And because I was at work, behaving myself (ROTFLMAO) I didn't get to see any of his little gems...lol
Excellent Criminal Minds tonight..jihadi caught by the FBI spells it out--just like we've heard from the real thing. Wonder if the defeat crowd "gets it" any better from "entertainment" than from the real thing?
"Google: hijackers still alive"
"Cecil Green | 08.22.07 - 10:12 pm | # "
WTF is this Cecil? Google: hijackers still alive.
Please don't tell us you are one of those "truther morons".
Which link would you like us to follow?
This one; http://www.whatreallyhappened.co.../
hijackers.html
or perhaps this one; http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/
...373_comment.php
maybe this one; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H...related&
search= -
Say it ain't so Cecil......
Yeah, Dean, I just ignored that one...won't even give the "truthers" (more like liars) any credence at all...their tin foil hats are too tight
I wish I hadn't seen that either.
My big words about civility are lost at the moment.
What's that Snooper says? Git the rope?
May you have a long fall there moron. Just remember Cecil, it isn't the fall that kills ya... it's that sudden stop at the end that will do ya in.
Now before somebody decides to "git the rope" why don't you just slither on back to Moonbat Central Command and tell your handlers you need mo betta talkin' points.
Tell Rosie to get her head out of the food trough long enough to do some real research instead of just getting seditious rants and her talking points ("tp" here) from the KOSmonoffs and the mother ship...in the meantime, where the heck did I put that rope?
I was going to call it quits tonight, but I just can't do it. It's just too much! I can't let you guys have all the fun.
Spree, you already know what I think about you. Miss Beth, thanks so much for your nice words. Believe it or not I was just on your site. And snooper -- snooper just cracks me up!
Where do these people come from? I looked back over the comments and this whole conversation took a very strange left turn at precisely 5:55 P.M. After that I don't know where it went.
Do you really think the elusive Raoul is behind all of those comments, using all of those different aliases?
If I was going to use an alias I don't think I'd pick "Kaye" and be talking about my hubby. But then, I may not be as clever as the elusive Raoul.
Who knows where he'll strike next? Maybe the Pentagon.
We'll see what name he uses next.
Personally, I kind of liked Cecil Green.
Later,
Raoul -- I mean, Roger
Thanks Roger for visiting my site.
You have NO IDEA how many aliases and how many ways he's tried to "suck us in"--yet his writing and his inevitable breakdowns always give him away. If nothing else, it's certainly taught us to be even more sharp eyed than usual.
He's impersonated all of us at some point as well--or attempted to--and we just keep copies of all of it and send it on to law enforcement/cyber crimes. I have a few "killer" agents here where I am and they have a full record.
When we don't acquiesce to his vainglorious demands (ever watch the "Squire of Goth" episode of the original Star Trek series--similar mode of grandiose thinking) he becomes extremely vile and degenerates to threats.
It's amazing just how low he's gone and we have no doubt he'll continue on that downward spiral.
Welcome Roger (although I know this is Spree's blog...lol) but I've enjoyed your thoughts!
Troll Trouncing.
THAT is EXACTLY what GWB did today on TOP of Spanking ReidCo!!
Can you say....
BUSH SLAPPED??
LOL!!
I saw it snoop...can I get the link to the actual speech add it to my speech section? "Harry's" in a whole wad of trouble with his aunt and uncle and I'm having a hard time pulling away...lol
Thanks again, Miss Beth. I read on an earlier posting by spree about Raoul attacking you personally. What a jerk!
This conversation tonight started out discussing those perfectly done videos. There was not one tiny portion of them that was in any way self-serving or political -- unless you consider being patriotic being political. Then all of a sudden the conversation started going sideways and before I knew what was happening we were in Mexico. Jeez!
Unfortunately for them, from what I've seen, these people always come out on the losing side of the argument. Especially when taking on people like spree and you and snooper and Dean and Hawk and the rest.
The trouble is, they just won't admit it when they've lost. Kind of like the Arabs with the Israelis.
Anyway, it's always nice talking to you even if it on somebody else's site. But I don't think spree minds.
Take care,
Roger
Spree: Thanks for posting the videos. I'll be passing them along.
We're constantly told by the left that unless you've served in the military you have no right to comment on Iraq.
So why is it that these same Chicken Doves want to shut up the voices of those who have sacrificed so much for our freedom?
P.S. Is Cecil Green an American? After reading "Getting out of a country you've invaded" I thought he is either a foreigner or doesn't consider himself an American.
"You've invaded"???
"Is Cecil Green an American?"
Who knows. He is a "truther-moron" which makes him a sub-species of global-citizen that has yet to be definitively classified. Whether or not he's American matters little, for he is a card carrying member of the "Tin Foil Hat" brigades.
Those clowns remind me of bad reruns of the "Twilight Zone" and "X Files".....the truth is out there.....where you say?....out t-h-e-r-e...
My apology to fans of the above mentioned tv programs.
To everyone. Thanks or the comments. Roger, whenever we post about the good news, progress or videos like this, we get inundated with those that cannot stand hearing it. Like Nancy Boyda getting up and leaving the room when Gen. Keane was talking, they cannot "hear" the good news, it makes them crazy.
Mike, Your welcome, please pass them along to everyone, I am already seeing them on television here in AZ.
Dean, the truthers were reamed on the HISTORY CHANNEL the other night, if you didn't hear about it, you MUST:
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/arc...istory-channel/
Beth, feel free to always welcome people here, you contribute greatly and have every right :o)
Snoop, you and those turtle turds are going to be the death of me yet.
Thanks again everyone.
I have been enjoying the Moonbat death Throes Dance since GWB SPANKED an d Bush Slapped the likes of ReidCo.
I wish he would do it more often.
So do I Snooper!
Thanks Spree. I have two televisions in my house but seldom turn them on anymore. It's not to save electricity, there just isn't much worth watching in my opinion.
I like to feed my brain versus causing it to shrivel and die.
The History Channel may be worth another look.
I mentioned the "hijackers still alive" bit since the 19 hijackers were brought up -- that they were surely Al Qaeda. The BBC article from late September '01 is important in showing how the media manipulates the public -- that is, that while at least 7 of the hijackers were definitely fake IDs, and we've known that since 2001, we're STILL to this day being shown the same 19 photos and names, and the same ones were used in the Commission Report. Anyone who doesn't have a problem with that cannot be helped.
And, yes, the people in the videos have nothing to gain politically as individuals, other than possibly helping to get people they support elected (i.e. Fred "I missed most of the debates, but if you liked Bush II, you'll love me" Thompson.
The people who have the most to gain are the ones who have fronted the 15 mil for the ads -- these four people didn't do that. Their hearts are in the right place, and I sympathize with them, but they're flat-out wrong.
I don't claim that 911 was an inside job -- I do know that many questions aren't being answered, and many families are upset by this. Also, William Rodriguez, who saved the lives of dozens of people that day, has an intriguing account of things he witnessed which have yet to be investigated officially.
BTW, I'm not a liberal. I support states rights and a small federal government.
Easy for YOU to claim they are wrong, THEY have fought and lost much more than many of us and they think they are right.
I generally give more credence to the opinions of those that were THERE and know what they are talking about, instead of folks that simply get their news online or in the papers.
That is why I publish my interviews with Iraq veterans, emails from active Iraq military, miliblogs from those IN Iraq.
They know what is happening on the ground so I will repeat my question again...
Where do YOU get your information if you do not listen to those on the ground and "in the know"?
Another thought here:
What makes you think your opinion holds any more weight then ALL of these opinions:
Move America Forward, vets For Freedom, all of which are Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans, Gathering of Eagles, all veterans, Families United for the troops and their mission, all with members of their family fighting, Eagles up, Protest warriors, to just name a few that are partnering in the convergence on Capitol Hill in September to support General Petraeus and the troops AND the mission.
Links can be found here:
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....-
defeat_22.html
THEY have earned the right to be heard and to affect the debate.
They will be heard, they will be repeated, they will be quoted and they WILL affect the debate in Washington.
September will be an interesting month.
For others reading this....these commercials are all over television, I am seeing them!!!!
WOOOOOOOHHHHOOOOOOOO!!!!!
.
The definitions of Victory given sound great, but they are not the reasons we were given for why we went in Iraq in the first place.
There were no WMD, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, a vast majority of the attacks are from Iraqis themselves against each other and on our people.
This entire war in Iraq is a diversion from the war on terror. The real war was in Afghanistan and we left that unfinished.
Um, we're still IN Afghanistan, fighting, Bill...
Ya'll can't get past this concept of lines on a map, can you?
Unreal.
Hawk...these pathetic AmbASSadors of the Leftinistra Fruit Loop Brigades are REALLY that dumb.
And, yet, NOT ONE has answered their own challenge..DEFINE VICTORY IN IRAQ BILL...WE'VE ANSWERED THE CHALLENGE, YOU DO THE SAME--and get off the idiotic talking dulls that have been repeatedly debunked, here and elsewhere. At least TRY to say something ORIGINAL for a change!
And, btw--we're not only STILL in Afghanistan--we're ALSO still in Kosovo (how long IS a year in the Clinton dictionary Bill), Korea, Germany, Japan--microwave attention span and same old idiotic bumper sticker screechings
Bill, have you even READ the joint resolution stating the reasons we went?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20021002-
2.html
Thats the resolution itself and if you do not want to read the 23 reasons we were given for yourself, here is just 7 of them other than the WMD's.
1. Iraq's harboring of Al-Queda terrorists
2. Iraq's support for International Terrorism
3. Iraq's "brutal repression" of its citizens
4. Iraq's failure to repatriate or give information on non-Iraqi citizens detained and captured during Gulf War I, including an American serviceman;
5. Failing to properly return property wrongfully seized during the Kuwait invasion
6. The attempted assassination of former President Bush in 1991
7. America's national security interests in restoring peace and stability to the Persian Gulf
Maybe instead of repeating the tired lines of there was no WMD's, you should read the bill for yourself and see that it was only ONE of the reasons given and it wasn't even the most important, but liberals don't mention the others because they know people like you will go around repeating what they say and not bother to actually read the resolution.
Try it, you might actually learn something.
Trolls are retarded from eating all those turtle turds they thought were cheerios.
Miss Beth--
Sometimes people ask a question because they don't know the answer, which is why I think the original question regarding victory in Iraq was posed.
Hotfoot, good point and thank you for making it.
The problem I think Beth is referring to stems from the fact that the question was answered, twice, then the person that originally posed the question decided they didn't like the answer.
We are always willing to give our opinion on what Victory would be, but we expect that when given the courtesy of an answer, to have it acknowledged as politely as it was given, not to be attacked for that same answer.
See Snooper, I learned. I see your name in comments and put my drink and food away until AFTER I have read it.
Wise
Hotfoot, yes, sometimes people don't know the answer to a question and that's why they ask it.
However...that being said--I have YET, at least in the past YEAR--to hear that self-same questioned by anyone on the left with any measure of a viable plan.
Frankly, I'm tired of the question--and I stated this above as well--being used as a gauntlet or challenge thrown down from the left to the right. We answer, the left doesn't. We at least give the courtesy of a reply. We are not given reciprocity in that courtesy and I'm tired of it.
Further, we aren't hearing anything original from the left, the talking points are old, stale, worn out and flat out lies and I'm tired of that as well.
My patience is gone and I'm tired of repetitively explaining things to so-called adults as I have to do with my 2 year old grandson.
So, if the left has an answer, I'd love to hear their viable plan. Otherwise, I don't want to hear the question directed anywhere near me again, because my personal response will be, you'll get an answer when you damn well come up with an idea of your own.
If you want a really good place to see how Victory is defined, and has been defined since January, 2007, I suggest you go here: www.VictoryCaucus.com.
And, when the right asks for the left's definition, we don't mean the standard canned answer of cut and run, surrender, get out now talking dulls. We mean get down to brass tacks and how would that withdrawal and success be achieved--the logistics, the extrapolated consequences of a premature withdrawal, all of it. It sounds "great" as campaign speak rhetoric--now let's see the meat on the bones. And THAT is precisely what we have NOT seen coming from the left, to the point HRC has to ask the Pentagon for THEIR plan and she's slapped down for it--and rightfully so. Let her come up with her own ideas instead of plagiarizing the Pentagon's--not to mention releasing that info to embolden our enemies with our plans to keep our casualties at the all time low they are at and have been.
What? A VIABLE Plan from the Losers?
Please. Miss Beth. You do know better than that, yes?
Of course, snooper--like I said...they throw it down like a gauntlet thinking we're as obtuse as they and thinking we haven't done our homework...and I'm just not in a very good mood today, just not feeling like putting up with the nonsense
Join the crowd.
These idiots KNOW they have lost and STILL repeat the SAME crap like it was new material.
Must be sad to be such losers.
Got your shipping plant ready to start shipping those gift boxes of turtle turds? I've actually lost my voice yelling at my boss today....
BETH, we knew it would happen. The Dems are NOW trying to claim some sort of credit for the surge working at the same time they are trying to deny any progress... omg. Its up in a new post.
Cross post please? Still at work, although mercifully silent...no choice...lol!
doing it now.
Did I get this wrong, or did somebody actually accuse me of "emboldening the enemy"?
I am a patriotic American with a right to express my opinions. I am NOT necessarily for withdrawing our troops out of Iraq, I just don't feel like fighting right now.
Let's not purposely distort my words!
Kaye Cecily Greenpeace
Roger...I don't see anywhere on here where that took place.
??????
Did we call that right or what?
The Leftinistra have started laying claim to PROGRESS in the War In Iraq.
Imagine that.
My son is in Iraq I don't think he is ready to cut and run
We listened to the "cut and run"
Congress in Vietnam. What did that gain the S Vietnimese & Cambodeans
in Lives lost?
President Bush lays it on the line in a speech to the VFW a few day ago Lets admit it Dems all you want
is more power thru Socialism!
We appreciate your son's service, Basil. Our thoughts and prayers are with your family and all those others out there with family members in harms way.
You're absolutely right, Bigger More Stronger Government. That's exactly what they want, and that's exactly what we don't need.
Roger? I CERTAINLY didn't mean you--it was me talking about emboldening the enemy and it was in reference to Kaye's rabid "define victory" crap. I apologize if it seemed I was coming one strong with you.
I'm sorry everybody, that was supposed to be a joke. Didn't anybody see the name I used --
I guess I'm going to have to be more careful with my little ironies.
I don't know -- I still think it was pretty funny. But now poor Miss Beth thinks she hurt my feelings and Snooper just thinks I'm nuts.
Kaye and Cecil Green are the only ones who will agree with me now!
LOL..Roger you DO have a very dry sense of humor...lol...I LOVED what you wrote over at my site (like Spree, I'm learning to see who is commenting and putting my food down BEFORE I read..)..I'm glad it was just in fun--I DID see the name you used...lol
The thunder roared!
The lightning flashed!
A tree fell.
A frog got smashed.
That being so stated and understood by all, if a chicken and a half, can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how long will it take a grasshopper with one wooden leg, to kick all of the seeds out of a dill pickle?
When the riddle is solved, then and only then will there be a full understanding as to what drives ReidCo.
Thank you so much, Miss Beth. I felt terrible about upseting you! Now all we have to do is convice Snooper that I didn't suddenly go off my rocker and start getting paranoid delusions. I better not use anybody's names anymore, not even fake ones. You can get yourself in a lot of trouble around here.
Love to you all,
Kaye
Well, now I really feel better! Miss Beth's not upset anymore, and after reading Snooper's latest posting I'm not going to be too worried about his thinking that I'M THE ONE whose going off my rocker!
And now Kaye and Cecil can go back to hating me again for wanting to win the war.
For a minute there I was afraid things had gotten out of hand.
The world's at peace and all is well and now I can go to bed and sleep peacefully.
Night everbody.
lol Kaye
Hawk originally posted this definition of freedom as:
Victory in Iraq:
Iraqi self government free from a repressive dictatorial regime, free from Sharia law, free from al Queda and Iranian attacks.
An Iraqi government by the people, of the people, for the people of Iraq. An Iraq where people are not afraid to express their views of politics or religion for fear of their heads being removed or their children baked in ovens and served to the families as dinner...
This has, for the most part, happened. They are a free people. They are able to speak their views and elect a government and not have their children served for dinner.
They are not yet free from al-qaeda, but neither is any country. This region has a history defined by war and unrest, so what is our end game? If it is to do the things that Hawk mentioned, then we've done them. We've achieved victory in Iraq. We can go home. If it is more, than what more is that. Again, no country is free from attacks from al-qaeda or other terrorist groups.
Even politicians--the republicans included--talk about redefining our definition of victory.
Okay, hotfoot...you are correct to an extent.
The PEOPLE of Iraq have to be able to sustain their growth and solidify what they have worked so hard to achieve.
AQ SEEMS to have overplayed their hand in the region and the people themselves have begun to revolt and fight against the sheer brutality. They have to be able to sustain that 'tude of "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".
We ARE handing off provinces to them, slowly but surely, as they themselves are gaining their own strength against their enemies.
Think of it sort of like childbirth--by your nic I can't tell if you're male or female so don't know if you've experienced childbirth--but childbirth is violent. It's called LABOR for a reason. It's not only violent, it's dangerous for both mother and child.
Now, once you're holding that beautiful child, you CERTAINLY DON'T ABANDON IT to it's own resources--that child has to be nurtured, taught, nourished and given the time to grow and flourish.
Iraq is still, I would say, in the toddler stages. Are you advocating leaving it, abandoning it? Simply because the initial objectives are met?
Yes..they can speak their views--but not in total safety and you know it. Yes they have an elected government...that's still trying to get the basics down (we've been going for 230+ years and look at OUR government)...and YES they still face the brutality of aq trying to brutalize them and extort them at every turn while imposing sharia law onto them.
You are correct in your final statement that no country is free from attacks from terrorists..whether home grown or imported.
Now, how about using a definition of your own to build on instead of Hawk's and the one the conservatives have been talking all this time?
How about YOU tell us whay YOU think will happen if we pull out NOW, and HOW we're supposed to pull off an immediate draw down? Surely you're not so naive you think nothing will happen to the populace of Iraq as retribution for them DARING to want and work for their own independent government, regardless of the "history" of the region? Are they on a level with Israel, who can achieve a successful government AND kick ass at the same time? Because they most certainly are NOT at that level yet.
What's YOUR answer, hotfoot?
Amen Beth, they don't answer question though, they simply ask them. They have no answers, just talking points.
They do not reason and research like you do, they just "repeat what they hear".
Hey darlin' I'm just an infant myself when it comes to research--you of the "fast and furious" flying fingers on your keyboard (I still see it smoking from all that work, all the way over here!)--YOU'RE the queen of research...lol
I try to at least keep it on the common sense level and I've found trying to use examples--such as the childbirth analogy--can often be helpful.
I do that a lot when trying to explain why Catholics do a lot of what Catholics do (i.e., "networking" regarding praying for a Saint's intervention in our needs, that kind of thing). Sometimes, if the defeatists can get off their self-righteous soapboxes of defeat long enough to listen to the comparison, it can help them understand a little better without all the political speak in there.
However, I STILL defer to you on the research front...you da bomb!
WE both do our homework, UNLIKE idiots.
Here is an example of an idiot:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...01522363/
#82059
Come make mincemeat out of him, it is fun.
Yes, that one is TRUE idiot...at least hotfoot is making an effort to understand and that makes all the difference in the world.
Aminedjad of Iran comes to address the UN in a few days. The Idiot President of Columbia University has invited this terrorist to address the students while he is here. NO WAY SHOULD THE U.S. OR NYC ALLOW THIS. Macmood also wants to lay a wreath at the World Trade Center site. NO WAY SHOULD THIS S.O.B. BE ALLOWED NEAR THIS HALLOWED GROUND.
GET WITH IT, EVERYONE. RAISE HELL.
We totally agree Colorado. 100&
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