Read the commenting rules carefully because they will be enforced!
They look like a bunch of Islamic terrorists, only wearing pink rather than black/white. You are right, they would fit in perfectly with Westboro Church.
Yup, they could then tear each other up. They want to see hatred against Gays, they are looking in the wrong place for sure.
I don't get it, why do conservatives oppose gay marriage??
AD, truly that has nothing to do with it, at all. Religious folks have their ideals and morals and beliefs in what they think is right or wrong, but they will also state they do not hate people who are gay.
Whether I, you or anyone agrees with that, doesn't matter, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.
No one, such as Bash Back, has the right to disrupt, vandalize and torment churchgoers because of their beliefs.
In doing so, they are guilty of the exact same thing they accuse others of being guilty of.
Fact is these liberals have no right whatsoever to torment people trying to pray to their God.
Do you see the churchgoes going into Bash Back meetings? Dressed as terrorists? Getting in their faces and vandalizing their places?
No.
Last point, it is very telling that that is the question you ask instead of condemning this type of behavior on the part of the Back Bash group.
Certainly this activity is ridiculous. I never support any actions by these fringe groups. Liberal fringe groups certainly appear to be a bit more willing to engage in radical activity that does little to further their cause.
However, this type of activity likely would not occur if gays/lesbians simply had the same rights as the rest of us. Maybe that conversation is best saved for another blog...
Yeah it is because I seldom judge those that live a different lifestyle OR those that believe it is morally wrong.
That is not a topic I engage in at all. Ever.
I don't know about the rest of you! But I grew up in a church where the Rev. could be heard all the way to the cemetery without the use of a microphone and speakers. The bathroom was located outside in the outhouse with a moon shape design cut in the door for light! The door to the church was always unlocked and open to sinners! We didn't judge people! We read our Bibles and that told us what was right and wrong, not the government or state! And sure not the likes of this group! Too bad they will not ever come to my church! I've a feeling this bunch picked a church in which they knew the folks would not do anything to keep them from abusing the house of God!....
What a bunch of crap these people went into a peaceful church and tried to force their beliefs on these Christians. That is why people are so against the marriage thing. They have equal rights but that is not enough for them. They will not be happy until every one believes what they do. The Christians have not done anything wrong or bad to them. Angry I can not understand why people like you insist on living life with your head up your butt!
these people should not have invaded and disrupted the church services. there is really no excuse for it. the marriage issue won't go away but this is certainly not the way to go about dealing with it. shame on the disrupters.
Nicole - so if gays/lesbians have equal rights then that means a man and a man or a woman and a woman can marry each other??
"Angry I can not understand why people like you insist on living life with your head up your butt! Nicole"
of course, this is not helpful either ...
Angry Dem - don't hold your breath waiting for people here to engage in discussion on this. there are more productive uses of your energy - drop me a note at my site and i'll send you some info.
re "equal rights" - opponents of same-sex marriage will just say "straight men can marry women and gay men can do the same thing" - what they DON'T address is this "straight people can marry whom they love, but gay people cannot". it comes down to the opponents' thinking that individual people should only be given a limited choice in who they marry and they want the government to interfere to prevent m/m and f/f marriages - contrary to their professed loyalty to small government - they profess to love small government until it comes to other people doing something inconsistent with what their religion of choice purports to forbid - then they want theocratic government and laws. hypocrisy of course, but they'll never fess up to it.
Bash Back STILL should not have invaded and disrupted the church services.
For me, this is about disrespecting others' ways of worship. THAT is the issue here - nothing else....using this church to make a political statement in such a disgusting way is just plain WRONG!
I'd like to see these folks try that stunt in an Islamic country..They can do that here BECAUSE they have freedom of expression blah blah blah.
Freedom of religion for me, but not for thee...
Yes, this "direct action" is disrespecting others' ways of worship. Yet, the right to equality under law is denied to gays and lesbians every day. So you have one instance of one church service being disrupted and that is disrespectful, and you also have constant disrespect and infringement of Constitutionally-guaranteed equality under the law.
Clearly the second of these is incomparably worse.
And, the denial of rights to gays and lesbians is accompanied by vicious and hurtful political campaigns, whether for a federal marriage amendment or state or local initiatves, and of course the pervasiveness of homophobia and homophobic social environments.
It may not be as bad as Iran, but that's no excuse for the legal subordination of gays and lesbians. It causes material, social and psychological harm to many individuals. And when it comes to equality under the law, your religious tradition should not come before justice.
I don't think anyone except the most extreme liberal fringe supports this kind of outburst. It's wrong, obviously. I'm not sure how productive it is to post the news on this blog though. Readers should be made to understand that this behavior does not represent the left any more than Westboro represents the right. Maybe that was your point, but I just feel like you're trying to stir up anger here. Please don't attack me for saying this. I'm not interested in being attacked.
I condemn violence BUT Republicans should support gay marriage
http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.c...upport-
gay.html
The majority of Californians are democrats and still they voted Yes on Prop 8. Joe Biden said he apposes gay marriage. So don’t blame it on conservative.
I do believe that gays should have the same rights as straight people. I understand their frustration, but the attack on the church is absolutely barbarian and uncalled for.
Sorry apposes = opposes
Disrespecting others' way of worshipping vs. Disrespecting gays rights as human beings.
"The majority of Californians are democrats and still they voted Yes on Prop 8. Joe Biden said he apposes gay marriage. So don’t blame it on conservative."
yes - you don't have to be a Republican/conservative to be a bigoted hateful person ...
Disrespecting others' way of worshipping = Disrespecting rights as human beings
Mark my comment to Angry was called for. He and anyone else that uses this illegal act by this group to blame it on "Christians" who have done nothing to gays is exactly how I have described them. Gays new when they choose that life style they could not have traditional marriages.They need to come up with alternative unions for their alternative life styles. Christians are not the ones forcing their beliefs down the gays throats or committing crimes against them. G50 there is no such thing as a homophobia unless there is such a thing as a hetrophobia. If it were not for straight people the human race would have gone extinct.
Nicole - wow! interesting comments! appears to me that your CHRISTIAN beliefs are the reason why you oppose gay marriage...am i correct or no?
So Mark are you against abortion?
" If it were not for straight people the human race would have gone extinct."
actually, if it were not for straight people there would be no gay people ... every gay person is the product of male sperm and female ovum ...
as far as one's sexuality being a choice, science is finding that it is not exactly so ... sure there are choices we can make, but i'm betting, nicole, that you no more chose to be straight than i did ... i think nicole is oversimplifying things ...
gays pay taxes and obey laws etc - who has the right to deny them the "pursuit of happiness"? go ahead and point to the bible if you want, but then you're talking about religious-based law which is substantively the same as sharia (even if the specifics are different)
i am against abortion - life begins at conception as far as i'm concerned - i'm also for totally unrestricted sex education and availability of contraception for all persons
You know what Angry I really do not give gay marriage much thought. I do not live any where that gay marriage is allowed. I know and love gay people and frankly the subject has never come up. What I have given some thought to is the bizarre attack in these comments.... that silent peaceful beliefs (persons thought which are also human rights)by a group of people .....are being attacked unprovoked in an illegal manner.....and some how you all think the victims are at fault.
There is no scientific proof of that Mark. Also years ago the only way to reproduce was the good old fashioned way ..... a man and a woman.....and there were laws that had to be followed for them to be married. Truly human race would have died out completely without heterosexual activity.
some of us get upset when religion is used as a basis/excuse for discrimination against minority groups - there is a long tradition in the human race for justifying prejudice, abuse, torture and killing by pointing to religious texts. i don't know what, if anything, Lansing's Mount Hope Church did to these gay people or to gay people in general, and i am disgusted that Bash Back did what it did.
on the other hand, if Lansing's Mount Hope Church DID do something, the better way will depend on what the church did. if it physically harmed someone, then the thing to do would be to make a police report; if it gave some ind of material support for, for example, the California Prop 8 effort to revise the California Constitution to take away the right of gay people to marry and be as miserable as are the rest of us who are married [just kidding - 27 years of wedded bliss for the missus and me last month], then the thing to do is to submit an objection on IRS form 13909 to the IRS complaining that the church is engaging in unlawful political activity and ask to have its tax exemption taken away.
...and by the way the Lansing's Mount Hope Church should file a complaint with their local PD and bring criminal and/or civil charges against the trespassers ...
careful nicole - there is also no scientific proof that God exists either - i have no trouble believing that god exists, but it's not scientifically provable ...
and also, it is mostly straight infertile couples who use in vitro etc in their effort to get pregnant.
personally, i think people should either have kids the normal way [insert part a into part b, remove and replace with increasing speed until everybody's happy] or adopt if they can't have kids that way
as far as the way laws used to be, it used to be illegal for blacks and whites to marry (and for hispanics and whites, and for asians and whites) - those laws were based on religion and prejudice and hate and they have been declared illegal ...
Nicole - I never supported what this group did or said that it was warranted. My first post on this blog was that I never could understand why conservatives oppose gay marriage.
And BTW, there's more to do with marriage than just sex and reproduction. It's also about something called LOVE. And love exists between men and women, men and men and women and women. LOVE is another very big part of marriage - it's not just sex and reproduction.
Nicole, there is such a thing as homophobia. I've seen it, I've heard it. You're not calling me a liar, are you? :P
But Mark as long as the church its self did not put its name on a dotted line any where it is ok. Christians can not separate their Christianity from any part of their lives (if they are truly practicing)and the laws they are making constantly for the muslims give Christians the grounds to get around even the IRS crap (if they sign the dotted line). As individual people with beliefs Christians are legally within the law to go out and support or vote in mass, for or against anything.
there have been gay people on earth as long as there have been people on earth - all the really old literature talks about it - gay people are as natural a phenomenon as straight people - there just are fewer of them - but i believe god loves them as much as anybody else
[sorry about lower-case God - it's just faster to type without worrying about capital letters]
we let infertile people marry ... and people who are beyond childbearing age ... and we don't require married people to reproduce ... why?
because individuals and society benefit from the support individuals give each other in marriage
Bash Back STILL should have left the church alone ...
nicole - i think you're being naive about the extent to which religion has been the basis for some of these discriminatory laws.
i don't know what you're referring to when you mention "laws they are making constantly for the muslims"
i totally agree that individuals are free to get involved in politics ...
i also agree that churches are free to get involved in politics too [the LDS Church and the Catholic Church were very involved in promoting Prop 8 in California, where I live]
churches can only have the tax exemption if they stay out of politics ...
Angry Dem said "I never could understand why conservatives oppose gay marriage"
it's basically the "ick" factor - they feel grossed out by what they imagine gay people do when they're "doing it" ... they don't admit it's the "ick" - they point to the bible or the koran or something "outside themselves" to justify the discrimination - but it's the "ick factor"
I will not be careful. I never got into if one should believe in God. So mute point. I also made my remarks concerning marriage and the laws in the past to support my comment about science was not used years ago to populate the world. I would think you suffered from ADD if I did not already know you suffered from HUYBD...Angry. You did say it was wrong and then followed up with a but they would not act crazy and violent and illegal if...... which is blaming the victim.
That's funny Mark you think I am naive. And with all due respect I think you are ignorant. Thinking about what anyone does in private is an "ick" to me. Way to personal and none of my business. What bothered me about the comment you quoted from Angry is how he always believes any conceived injustice in the world on the conservatives. Which is hysterical considering the Dems have been historically the oppressive party.
All of you get back on topic--if you want to discuss gay marriage, go to that thread. This line of comments is becoming absurd--the fact is people were worshipping in their house of worship and they were disrupted and attacked--on any level--while exercising their CONSTITUTIONALLY AND GOD GIVEN right to worship as they chose. They are not the VICTIMS--got it? They were victimized by a bunch of nitwits who will scream "the people spoke--get over it" when discussing stinky, but can't seem to hear the same thing regarding their own agenda.
The people spoke--get over it.
No not calling you a liar G50 just pointing out that if you are going to call people Homophobic you have to call others on the opposing side Hetrophobic (like the group described in the posted article above). Frankly, I think the whole labeling thing is crap. Just a new way of being mean,divisive,oppressive,and stupid. We are all human and should look at each other as such. If this country worked the way it was intended....the government would not be involved in Marriage at all in any way. Then people would be free to practice what ever religion they wanted and have whatever ceremonies they wanted to mark whatever union they wanted. People would just say hi and bye fellow human and not get into who they are sleeping with and how. By the way Mark I was talking about the rights that muslims are being given to practice their religion by making everyone else listen to their call to prayer and special consideration at work to pray at certain times of the day and so on. It is crap but they are getting the laws passed.
"All of you get back on topic--if you want to discuss gay marriage, go to that thread."
Yes, Miss Beth ...
Miss Beth I am sorry. I was really trying to stay on topic. I let them get me off task defending my comments.
You guys are providing a good discourse and you're all trying to be somewhat respectful--which is totally cool. Just wrong topic thread!
Godless!
Just another little gift from Obama and how things will go with the likes of this guy hiring gays, and trashy pals of his. Can you believe the first meeting with President Bush, Obama goes back and tells what all was said in private! Are we all NOT surprised. Obama is so NOT Presidential material, he is a joke, a liar, and was born in Kenya. Before Obama really puts us in harms way and (Lord only knows what that American hater MO has planned?)Obama must return to Kenya, now. Obama needs to take those gay pink 'rag heads' with him. They are not welcome in our country, neither is Obama.
Obama is so NOT protocol. I believe Obama's exact words were while on the stump, "We sure can't screw up as bad as 'they' did!" Your first pop out of the box, you just did worse, Mr. Obama!
Just cling to your guns and God, we'll win. If God be for us who can be against us? Rom.8:31
NO WAY NO HOW can Obama ever succeed, he has too much personal and excess baggage, and is a Form of Insanity.
i'm sorry that i said i thought you were being naive, nicole ...
Interesting comments.
I accept your apology Mark and I am sorry for calling you ignorant. Also me and Angry have been going at this for a couple months now. Angry loves and admires me I know.....or else Angry would not keep trying to push my buttons.
Ya know I do find it curious that this Bash group choose to dress in islamic like garb. That is not going to go well for them I would think.
Nicole you are right with your stand with God's Word. Gays, are without natural affection and are living in sin. Sin is Sin, and God has given them over to a reprobate mind, so they can not see that they are living against God's Word of Truth. It is their choice and our call to confront them. God has given freedom of will, but they carried their beliefs to a criminal level. They are to stay in their bounds, and not try to force their ideas on us. No gays don't just want their own rights, they want to impose their rights on others and behave unseemly. Sin begets sin, and is of a mean spirit. Take it or leave it, and voice your complaint to God not us, AD and Mark or whoever.
You see, God's Word is not FOR you and that is why you can't understand. We are sorry for that, it must be a miserable HUA existence, always warring against yourself. You have changed the truth of God into a LIE.
Rom.1- starting with verse 18 - continue through verse 32. IT IS WRITTEN, John 10:10 clearly states the theif, comes not but to steel, kill and destroy. Hint: (the theif is Satan) Jesus Christ has come that you may have life, and that you (believers only) may have it more abundantly. Think I'll choose that more abundant life, just sounds better. You go Nicole, if they choose Satan's way, then judgement day it is! It is what it is.
[pssst! hey everybody - watch out for carolyne - i think she forgot to take her medication again today]
Sorry, I am not talking about gay marriage, I am saying what is the fruit of this kind of bad behavior. Rom.1
Yes they must respect others rights and we can let them have their choice, it is free choice. But no way do they show up meanly abusing the lives of others, of whom are not bothering them. However gay marriage is out, that's where we need to draw the line in the sand, if we are to uphold the Word of Truth. Sorry.
It begins with sorry, and ends with sorry.
Why? Because this is sorry behavior against mankind.
Mark when you point fingers, it's you that may need meds, as the sarcasm shows, but my heart is always to forgive. God's Word is profitable for doctrine, and correction in the things of God. I do take God's Word as medicine, and my flesh will always sin, but God's love constrains us to not hate, and act mean as these 'rag heads.' Very sad, and sinister.
No profit in any of this bad behavior.
I wasn't sure how your first batch of comments were relevant to the discussion here; you started in on these things
- Obama
- this guy hiring gays, and trashy pals
- Obama is so NOT Presidential material
- he is a joke, a liar
- he was born in Kenya
- Lord only knows what that American hater MO has planned?
- Obama must return to Kenya, now. - those gay pink 'rag heads'
- They are not welcome in our country,
- neither is Obama
- cling to your guns
- NO WAY NO HOW can Obama ever succeed, he has too much personal and excess baggage, and is a Form of Insanity.
and none of what you said has anything to do with the thread that the rest of us were commenting on.
"and my flesh will always sin"
remember - God created your flesh ... why don't you accept your flesh and thank God for his gift?
Thaks for the post Susan,
It is amazing to me that anyone would try to rationalize this kind of intimidating and fanatical behavior. It is wrong period. The battle over gay marriage is already being fought at the ballot box and through the legal system. This is nothing less than intimidation by fanatics. Anyone that is sympathetic to this kind of behavior for any reason has an agenda.
And Mark, If Carolyn forgot to take her medication, maybe you took too much? eh?
wow, I need medicine to keep up with all the hooh-hah!....Mark, I thought you couldn't prove God existed but now your labeling God as a he!....From what basis do you quote from that gay people have existed for all time?....I'm not even aware of a religion that has existed through a long period of time that states that a man & man or woman & woman should be joined together. The Church and state are separate. The state told these folks no way! Not the Church!...And the majority vote against this same sex marriage was cast by blacks and hispanics. These folks refuse to have their religion and faith altered by others that want it to fit their needs. Good for them! Not everyone lives in Dorkywood and wants to start up their own churchs and religion like Tom Cruise and company! Next thing you know this bunch of idoits will be attending Tom's church!....If this whole thing is only about the same rights as a regular married couple, then why do we always see these people wearing the traditional wedding gown or suit? They want to change traditional marriage to fit them and be seen in the eyes of God as legitimate. This whole thing is not based on same rights but about making themselves feel they are in the right. That's is exactly why they targeted a church! Spin it all you want! These folks are out to redo and undo!
Jodie thanks, and Obama is very relevant, as this would happen if Obama would have had morals, kept his word, not lied, and stood for what is right, so his cult followers think they can get by with anything now, without consequence. These are bitter angry people, and have gotten worse since the election progressed. Spin the tail on the Donkey, it fits. Elephants never forget.
no no no no no - it's about keeping religion out of the laws, people - if you have to talk about marriage law and god in the same breath, you're proving my point - religion-based law is OK in Iran or Saudi Arabia but not in the USA. read the US Constitution and the constitutional jurisprudence on church and state.
sorry god - i forgot that we agreed that this week i was going to refer to you using the feminine pronoun.
Mark,
Separation of church and state has been taken to the extreme by people with agendas like the ACLU, trying to push their agenda on others and seeking to ammend the constitution to fit their agenda.
I don't want to get into a discussion about gay rights, abortion, or any other issue with you. I just want to suggest that you go back and research each of our founding fathers. Research why the Constituion was written, learn about our founding fathers beliefs, their desires for our country. There are many letters that each one wrote to help you understand how they felt and what they were thinking. It is very interesting.
Thank you. That is all.
I came across this blog in the efforts to read about the horror that took place last Sunday. It has been quite interesting reading all of the posts and feeling the passion from all of you (and all of you are). I believe that people have the right to Freedom and Expression as long as it does not fringe on others' rights. What happened at the Mt Hope Church was dreadfully sinful, we all agree. What bothers me is that Carolyne (and I am sure others feel this way) is blaming the course of what happened on someone who was not even there. How is what happened to those innocent people Obama's fault? I am pretty sure that he did not force them into their beliefs or plan this action in any way. Let's place the blame on who is actually responsible-- the Bash group itself.
I believe that these individuals will have to answer for their sins one day. If we are against hate, how can we hate others? It's very contradictory and hypocritical.
One last thing....
I hear this alot, "I will hold onto my guns and the Bible/God." I guess I am looking for a perspective on how guns, God, and the Bible actually go together. Seems to be, again, contradictory.
All take care and much respect.
Sorry, but if you call me a racist, sexist or bigot because you want me to believe in your "marriage" thing, then you will never earn my vote. REMEMBER EARN.
Trying to intimidate me with weapons and threats (gays threatening "breeders" with violence) will only get you hurt by people who don't want to be bothered.
I really wish these clowns would just start their own church and sanctify their own marriages. Then they could baptize one another...
"the clowns" don't want your church - many of them already have their own - they just don't want the state or people enacting (or purporting to enact) religious-based laws that discriminate against citizens on impermissible bases - like religion (or lack thereof) or sexual orientation ... it's actually pretty simple.
But the Bash Back people were wrong to do what they did and can probably be held liable under civil and maybe criminal law ...
Mark, so if we eliminate the "state or people enacting (or purporting to enact) religious-based laws that discriminate against citizens on impermissible bases." and pass all the gay-rights laws possible, can I still believe that homosexuality is wrong if my Bible says so? Or should I let gays come over my house and rip that page out? My point here is this, I don't hate gays. What I hate is that they want to force it down my throat. Equal rights are not enough. In addition to wanting equal rights, they are angry with me because of my religion. They want me to not believe it or want to silence me. But in all actuality, they are not angry with me, they are angry with God. It's not a new phenomenon, angry people crucified Christ because they didn’t like what he said or believed.
If the Bash Back people truly want equal rights only, they would do it peacefully.
Also, if you do think they have the right to rip that page out of my Bible, have them rip out the one on covetousness too. My neighbor just got a new car and I really want it.
Well Shelia this dirty election has had an effect on people, after two years of Obama greedy thugs acting out, and if you can't understand that who people look to is how they behave, it's called a paradigm. Example in other words has a lot to do with how people act.
So just like the lady said when going to vote, now when Obama wins, I won't have to pay my house note. Well need I say more. So now that Obama has won??? look at how his cult followers are acting, and that should give you a clue. No he doesn't have to be there, but his message is there, so there! Obama lied straight faced receiving $650 million from public financing, saying he would not take public financing, so that makes it right? WRONG! None of this is right: that is what it is.
Bill in Detroit: You can certainly believe that homosexuality is wrong if your Bible says so. But nobody gets to come in your house and rip anything out of any of your books. In a sense it is irrelevant whether or not you hate gays (though presumably Christ’s admonition to love your neighbor might have some bearing on this question). Nobody’s trying to force anything down your throat, except, maybe the idea that you cannot use law to impose (or deny) anything to people based on their religion or sexual preference. Nobody’s trying to force your church to marry people your church doesn’t want to marry; they’re just trying to make sure that your church (or anyone else’s) convinces the State to grant or deny civil marriage to people based on some criteria that, while recognized and required for a long time, really don’t have anything to do with the social benefits of marriage. Infertile people and people who choose not to reproduce (older people, people who’ve already had and raised their kids, people whose other circumstances weigh against reproduction ~ e.g., women with other medical issues ~ and selfish, arrogant, egomaniac yuppies) are permitted to marry, so the ability to reproduce is an invalid requirement for civil marriage. As for people being angry with you because of your religion, it is not possible to legislate someone else’s attitudes toward your beliefs (just as nobody can legislate YOUR attitudes toward their beliefs) – somebody’s always angry about something and we just all have to deal with it.
correction:
"... they’re just trying to make sure that your church (or anyone else’s) DOES NOT GET the State to grant or deny ..."
The worst thing about this event is that NO ONE WAS ARRESTED.
No one is defending the right of Christians (and it is in fact a right, unlike the ability to marry whomever you choose-you may not marry your brother, or mother, or father, or so on) to worship in a peaceful manner the same way they have for more than a century. Christians will need to wake up and realize that we are daily losing our rights to believe the Bible. Be prepared for the Gospel and the rest of the Bible to be labeled as hate speech. It's going to get VERY hot in here. Be careful and be on guard.
I know what ya mean Things. They need to find this group and charge them with a hate crime. To be fair and equal. Mark can you tell me where in the constitution it states separation of church and state? Can you like wise tell me where it says we have rights based on sexual preference or life style? These Bashers trampled all over this church's right to practice their religion. We the people do have a right to vote and we can choose to vote for or against what ever we want for what ever reason we want. NO one can give you an explanation to why they are against gay marriage that you will except. A big part of the reason is because it is so crazy and unnatural (an abomination Biblically and Christians are not hurting them which puts them well within the teachings of Christ). You can not offer logical explanation to such illogical way of living, other than saying it is wrong.
"US Constitution, [...] Amendment I
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."
We don't have "rights based on sexual preference or life style", but we are to be free of "law[s] respecting an establishment of religion". The effort to prohibit m/m and f/f marriage is an effort which rises out of religion, something like this:
"The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination, therefore we want to ban m/m and f/f marriage".
The Prop 8 proponents would deny a right under civil law (marriage between people who want to marry) based on the religious "prohibition" against same-sex relationships. Take away the religious "prohibition" and there is no basis for denying m/m and f/f marriage. Nobody is trying to force your church to marry m/m or f/f couples; they are just trying to remove prohibitions based on religion.
The Bash Back people should be criminally prosecuted for trespass (not blasphemy, please) but that does not give anyone the right to deny people the right to marry. The Prop 8 mentality is very much the same as the mentality that formerly succeeded in passing laws against the "mixing of the races". The vote of a majority of the people does NOT make something, by itself, legal or illegal. Slavery (along with other race-based discrimination) was legal, and was supported by the majorities in certain Southern States. The existence of a law passed by the majority is not enough to make the law legal.
Why are you (seemingly) so opposed to m/m and f/f marriage? How does it do anything to you? Are you ready to excuse m/m and f/f couples (to whom you would deny marriage) from having to pay taxes? They do everything else exactly the same as you; why shouldn't they have exactly the same rights as you: to marry the person they love.
Simple, actually.
Here are a few things you can read on the idea of separation of church and state: it is based on the text of the constitution and has evolved through trial and error over the course of the nation's history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Sep...hurch_and_state
http://candst.tripod.com/
http://books.google.com/books?id...num=5&
ct=result
http://www.amazon.com/Separation...r/dp/
0674007344
http://www.adl.org/
issue_religio...n_cs_primer.asp
http://www.adl.org/
issue_religio..._violations.asp
http://rationalrevolution.net/
ar...tion_of_chu.htm
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806...06/
danbury.html
TOTTC says : "... unlike the ability to marry whomever you choose-you may not marry your brother, or mother, or father, or so on)".
I presume that there will always be [weird] people who want to "marry ... [their] brother, or mother, or father, or so on). But this is not about that.
Nor is this about slavery, which I can tell you that no one on this blog regular would have been for at any time they were living. Your above quote means ( and Jefferson clarified this in a letter to a minister where everyone gets this whole separation of church and state from) is that the government can not dictate to the people one any specific denomination or way of worship as a church nor can it tell churches how to conduct their worships or beliefs. It does not say or mean that Christians have to leave their beliefs at the door before they go in to vote. Which is what these Bashers are criminally saying. Nor does the constitution say that these Bashers can force others to say in any way that their life style is OK or acceptable or moral in any way. I also do not read anything in your quote that says Christianity is forbidden from influencing our government.
Certainly the actions of this group in a church is not appropriate. At the same time, Christians have to learn to deal with this and find a way accept equal rights for all of God's people (http://blogs.pioneerlocal.com/relgion)
Gay marriage is not a right. The point of the post was the violence and criminal activity by the gays. Period.
If this crap keeps up, I will close this comment thread as well.
All I know is this would never have happened in our little country Mississippi church. Our leaders would have restrained the disruptors until the law arrived and they would spend no less than 30 days in jail. I do not believe in gay marriage becaus you are married before God and He will not bless an abomination. Yet, I would never bust in on one of their little meetings to throw Christian tracks and anointing oil and hymn books or anything else. I pray. That is how this will be solved. But it won't get any better because we are living in the last day. When we (the Christians) are taken out of here evil will reign. There will be no peace.
A church of that size should have had a security team that would have gain control of that crowd and escorted them out of the bulding. The mega church I come from has a security team and local police in the building to keep that kind of stuff from happening. Many of which are armed. I can not believe that this kind of behavior is going on. I know as a Pastor myself I would not tolerate that kind of display to take place in the house of God. I don't have enouch people to take control of that many people just yet, but when I do that kind of thing would not be tolerated in my house! The church needs to protect the house of GOD by any and all means necessary. God has given us dominion and authority over every WICKED thing. TAKE AUTHORITY AND DOMINION! THE CHURCH NEEDS TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND HANDLE GOD'S HOUSE WITH SOME RESPECT. THE KINGDOM OF GOD SUFFERTH VIOLENCE AND THE VIOLENT TAKE IT BY FORCE!
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