Read the commenting rules carefully because they will be enforced!
I hearbye issue the following charge of the Democratic Party: Change your name, you disgrace the Democratic Party of days gone by. Call yourselves the Yellow Party, it fits you better.
Can we question the Democrats' patriotism yet? Then again, can we question something that clearly doesn't exist?
I agree Hawk and RS, I have questioned their patriotism since they started doing everything in their power to demoralize our troops and to embolden our enemies.
They have no patriotism, the only thing they are loyal to is their next election.
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Hiya spree. Needed some positive news today and found a video in my inbox that I'm pretty sure you'll like. You may have seen it before (I don't watch ABC so I never saw it), but if not you won't want to miss it.
I have it linked in my most recent post: "a very special movie night"
Spree:
Do I understand you correctly that you think Reid is guilty of treason because he says the war is lost?
George Bush lost the war.
Harry Reid just stated reality.
And you blame Harry Reid?
Y'all need to do some introspectin'.
If demoralizing the troops is a treasonous offense, what about extending their tours from 12 to 15 months the day after attempting to blame the extension on Democrats? Really - in my opinion, criticizing this war isn't an attack on Conservatism, or an attack on the troops - it is an attack on a policy that plainly hasn't worked, and isn't working. I have been told that 'it is working' and 'progress is being made' for so long, why should I possibly believe this statement now?
As an actual supporter of an actual soldier, I think those of you who stay and home and speak as if you know anything about the situation in Iraq are not being honest.
Reid is wrong to say the we "lost" the war, but it is not unpatriotic, just foolish and typical of politicians on either side of the aisle. It was more unpatriotic of Bush and Cheney to tell lies that has lead to the needless deaths of so many Americans.
Our men and women who serve accomplish their assigned missions within the parameters defined by the politicos in the Bush Administration: having to call and beg for permission to return fire; having to stand by and watch as they are fired upon. This is the Republican idea of patriotism: "to seem rather than to be" supportive of our troops.
I am not wise enough to be able to say how to "win" a civil war that really is not our doing. I can say that it is not patriotic to send troops to stand around in the middle of that violence with their hands tied waiting on some schmuck in the rear with the gear to decide if the bullets whizzing by their heads are being fired by hostile forces.
Time to stop calling people unpatriotic whilst supporting politicians of either side that don't really care about us or our soldiers, just which fatcat corporation can pay for their next round of golf.
First, the war hasn't been lost. I'll let spree go in depth on exactly why, she's been following this in a lot more depth than I have and has the things she needs to back up what she says.
Secondly, we are JUST NOW seeing Iraqi's en masse coming up to bat to take care of things themselves and to fight the terrorists waiting for us to leave.
Third, and this is KEY. World War II saw no "rotation of troops" after so many months overseas. Troops were sent in to battle and stayed there. Period.
When I was a soldier I perfectly expected the same if deployed. Doesn't mean I would have liked it, but I would have understood and done what I volunteered for. Same as the troops we have today.
OH, and my other point: I totally and completely agree that "non-engagement" orders are the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of to be issued to combat arms troops.
Just want to make sure I have this right.
If you say the War is lost, you're rooting for the enemy.
Following that (il)logic, if you say terrorists are out to kill innocent Americans, how is that not rooting for innocent Americans to be killed by terrorists?
let's see...which is worse...harry reid saying something that al queda also happened to say and is pretty much up for debate at this point...or george bush doing exactly what al queda wanted him to do?
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, not following you here, jay k. What did al-Qaeda want Bush to do? Set up operations in Afghanistan? Set up operations in Iraq?
OH I know, they wanted the baseball teams and Harry Potter books for the detainess in Gitmo, that's the one, gotcha.
We're on the same page here now.
Hawk:
I'm curious- under what circumstances would you agree that the war is not winnable?
If we were facing heavy engagements, suffering nothing but staggering losses, being pushed back, not holding ground, not holding the support and gaining the support of the Iraqi people, then I would say we were in deep kemchi.
In the time we've been in Iraq, we've lost a little over what, 3,000 lives? Compare that the Normandy. Compare that to Iwo Jima. Compare that to Shiloh. Those are single battles, not an accumulation over a period of years. Limited engagements, sporadic fire fights with hostile squads, are not major battles that we are losing. One can only expect to engage in hostile fire when one goes LOOKING for an enemy force that is suspected to be and known to be operating in an area.
We suffer from attacks by terrorists there, ergo, the enemy will use terrorist tactics in their engagements of our troops: bombs, ambushes, land mines, suicide bombers. These don't win battles, they are weapons of instilling fear.
What we are not facing is an organized, overwhelming enemy force who has us engaged in heated, pitched combat. What we ARE facing is an enemy who can do nothing more than badger us with random acts of senseless violence.
Walter Cronkite, great warrior that he was, declared after the Tet Offensive that America "could not win the war in Vietnam." If you'll look at the interviews with military officers on both sides of the war nearly 40 years later, the Vietnamese themselves admitted that Tet only turned the war because of the American media and weak-willed American politicians.
Amazing how we never learn from the lessons of history.
The war in Iraq is lost beyond any hope. The war was probably lost even before it started when the Pentagon senior leadership (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith) refused any attempt to plan for post-war Iraq, actively shutting out any advice from State Department experts whose efforts were scornfully regarded as "Nation Building" and not in line with their plan to install the charlatan Ahmed Chalabi as president. The war was definitely lost in the first year when, contrary to all advice from the generals, State Department experts, and intelligence community officials, L. Paul Bremer implemented the de-Baathification order and the disbanding of the Iraqi army. These two decisions doomed the US in Iraq by directly creating the insurgency and giving it fuel in the form of former soldiers sent home in disgrace (with their weapons) and nothing to lose. We have been playing catch-up ever since. And any hope of turning around these mistakes was dashed by the Administration's intentional mis-reading of the situation for political purposes. Bush frames Iraq as part of the war on terrorism, chanting that we have to fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them here. He has claimed that as the Iraqi forces trained by the US increases, we will be able to stand down. But Iraq is imbroiled in a multi-dimensional civil war between Sunni and Shiite for control of the country and its biggest resource: oil. There may be local troublemakers calling themselves Al-Qaeda fighters, but they are by no means at the heart of the situation (killing Zarqawi made not a bit of difference in the fighting). And those legions of Iraqi troups that the U.S. is producing have loyalties which are at odds with peace and may be turning their weapons and training back against us.
Even in spite of all of this, it would be possible to retain some hope for the terrible situation if the president showed some signs of realistically evaluating the situation. But he continues to delude himself and the American people. Although he is on record admitting that al-Qaeda is not the problem in Iraq, he continues to drop comments making the terrorism connection. For instance, he claims that any attempts of Congress to tie funding to redeployment timetables will give the terrorists an incentive to wait it out. This is absurd---it's been more than four years (longer than the U.S. fought in World War II) and if the Iraqis cannot manage their country by now there is no reason to believe that more time will help. Meanwhile Americans are dying in a war that was originally started as a lie (remember yellow cake uranium and alumium tubes?). And, despite the administration's nonsensical claims that the "surge" is working, the violence has steadily increased---each the last 3 months have shown the highest number of attacks since Bush declared the fighting over in the "Mission Accomplished" photo event.
In World War II, the German generals realized that the war was l
Dear Hawk.
Do not compare this war to conventional wars. This is assymetrical warfare.
The Russians unquestionably lost in Afghanistan. It didn't resemble Normandy or Iwo Jima there either.
Assume that our goal is to promote a stable government in Iraq. A government, by definition, holds a monopoly on violence.
Not only does the Iraqi government and the US military NOT hold a monopoly on violence, it doesn't even own a 1/10th share in it. We can't even control the Green Zone....
We have indeed lost in Iraq.
Not militarily, but it is our political leadership which has lost this war...in fact it was lost before it even began. There is some legitimate debate as to whether it could have been won with 400,000 troops, as Shinseki et. al suggested. But clearly, in a million years this ship of fools we call the Bush administration could never acheive its goals in Iraq.
hawk...
i don't have a lot of time but here's the short version...bin ladens playbook has never been about big symbolic targets...but 9.11 did do what he wanted...it got bush to over-extend himself. another 9.11 now would be totally counter-productive for al queda as they are already winning the pr war in the middle-east - al queda is seen as taking on the crusaders and doing a pretty good job (please think about that next time the rnc talking points say he haven't been attacked here since 9.11.) as far back as 2001 bin laden was saying that the way to beat a super-power is to incapacitate them economically. he spent what...100k on 9.11? we have commited over two trillion dollars on this mis- adventure when you extend costs out, and today there is no viable exit strategy in sight. pretty good return for his money eh? y'all look at the stock markets and listen to the white house and think the economy is booming, but when you look at the big picture it's a lot more dicey. this little war of bushs has some major economic implications that have not even begun to show themselves. heck, bush won't even own up to the costs in the current budget, much less think about the long term implications of it. bin laden also has talked about $20 dollar barrels of oil being akin to stealing. he thinks it should be more like $200. bush has created enough instability in the middle-east that $100 barrels are predicted, and while $200 is probably silly, it's not totally out of the realm of possibility.
if i had been born in new haven with a silver spoon in my mouth i would have gone big and gone hard in afghanistan, finished that job, and launched an apollo-style initiative to get us off oil with the two trillion i didn't spend. but i wasn't...bush was...and he did exactly what bin laden wanted...and bin laden is still out there somewhere...smiling.
Greg no. See, again you just aren't "getting it", I think Reid is guilty of treason for the exact reason the soldier in the letter said.
Not because of Reid's opinion, but because he would go out and publicly state, that it is lost, demoralizing our troops and emboldening the enemy.
There is a huge difference between what a person thinks and how they go about putting that into bills and legislation and getting your mug in front of TV cameras, KNOWING our soldiers will see it, and declaring you believe the enemy will win over our troops.
You would expect this kind of sickness from al-Qaeda and our enemies, NOT from the majority leader in the Senate.
One day you might "get it" but from your question to me here, it is obvious you just aren't getting it yet.
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I can see the retreat in defeat crowd is out in full.
All I have to say is thank GOD these aren't the people we depend on to protect us as a country, otherwise at the first sign of hard work, we would be left protecting ourselves while these brave souls, who COMPLETELY IGNORE the soldiers on the ground and what they say, these commenters would be running the opposite way with their tails between their legs, their balls having already been removed, IF they ever had any.
Our soldiers have a first hand knowledge of what they are doing and why and they have fought bravely and lost less military lives than in ANY PREVIOUS WARS ever.... we have a great military.
Too bad we have so many in our country that are not worthy of them.
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spree...
it's not about hard work...it's about making smart decisions. let's start there.
Spree:
So if I just think we're losing that's ok, but if I say it it's treason? By your definition there's a lot of Americans who should be jailed.
And BTW- what's up with the 'Retreat in Defeat' line? Did the RNC phase out 'Cut & Run'? And why didn't I get that memo?
Once again Greg.... thinking and saying are your rights... but Reid is in a position where making PUBLIC STATEMENTS that demoralizes OUR TROOPS and EMBOLDENS OUR ENEMIES, is a very good case of treason.
I cannot state it any better than this vet has:
As a retired Marine officer, I am shocked at the blatant treasonous statement made by an elected "leader" of this country.
The definition of treason is:
1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.
His words can have a very harmful affect on the troop's morale in the field and clearly will embolden the enemy.
Can anyone imagine if a "leader" gave the signal to the world that the United States is giving up during any engagement in WWII and endorsed a surrender strategy even before a plan was allowed to be executed?
It is not only unpatriotic, and cowardly, but it is treasonous! He may be directing his hatred at the President but clearly his words aid the enemy.
God help this country!
OR THIS ACTIVE MILITARY SOLDIERS:
I am an active duty Army National Guard officer serving with the 55th Civil Support Team, Minnesota’s WMD response team. I have not deployed to OIF/OEF yet but spent two tours in Croatia and Bosnia with Operation Joint Forge. Here is my short, concise email to Senator Reid:
USC Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115 § 2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
What more is needed to be said?
Since YOU are not an active military soldier Greg, you cannot speak to how Reids public words, being the majority leader in the senate, is making them feel....only THEY can.
And they are.
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I see the "demoralize the troops and embolden the enemy" trolls are about. Imagine that!
no, silly Leftinistra, the war is NOT lost unless you are of the mind-set of the Code Pink socialists and their ilk as puppeted by the Leftinistra pukes of the pelosi worm and the reid moron.
I have been "over yonder" and if Big B falls to the terrorists, so goes Iraq.
From the reports we get that the Lame Stream Media is NOT allowed to print, progress is being made by leaps and bounds. But the terrorists know to play to the emotions of the emotionally charged and weak-kneed Leftinistra, such as the Cut and Run baffoons.
We are in Iraq. It doesn't matter The Why. Either support the troops or STFU.
YEAHHHHHHHH Snooooper.
To all those that wish to run, crying like babies with your tails between your legs.
I have reposted something I wrote back in Novemebr of 2006.
This is my response to you:
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....-
reposting.html
YOU ARE THE TOKYO ROSE'S OF OUR TIME.
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"it doesn't matter the Why"
oh yes it does. It sure as hell does.
Do you really believe the nonsense you spew? Do you really believe that Al Qaida was on the verge of surrender seconds before Harry Reid spoke the obvious? Do you think that saying they should be brought home could demoralize the troops any worse than they are? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, could you then explain how the military could 'win' now? What would 'winning' in Iraq consist of? Why is suggesting diplomacy and economic solution somehow 'treasonous'? I'm really curious as to whether you've thought any of this out or if you're just vomiting your impotent rage at people you percieve as your persecutors. Have a nice day.
-Winston Delgado
Spree:
You could no more charge Reid with Treason than you could Warner, Snowe, Hagel etc. etc. Come to think of it, probably half the country would be in jail under your definition.
I certainly think our soldiers are strong enough to deal with expressions of free speech here in America. After all, isn't that part of what they're fighting for?
Tokyo Rose was charged with Treason Greg, so yes, I believe they could and should be.
We will have to agree to disagree, but I will be pushing this course of action as long as these people are deliberately trying to hurt our soldiers in the field, playing footsie with the enemy, using al-Qeada's words from their videos and are actively HELPING THE ENEMY.
it is what it is and all the excuses and explanations in the world will not change these basics.
I just think it is a pity that you folks cannot see the harm you cause our troops.
Back to work with me!!
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it's almost funny...y'all have been wrong about everything from the very start. and still you thump your chests and call others un-patriotic and treasonous. i admire the arrogance. but i think someday perhaps, you will realize that in fact your inability to grasp the reality of the situation was a hinderance to the effort. until then the soldiers you think you are supporting will continue to die needlessly.
jay, that is a good starting point, but who is in a better position to KNOW the facts, not the hype, about the conditions on the ground in Iraq?
You? the Media? the politicians? Or the soldiers that are there, right now, fighting, building, training and helping?
That should be a no brainer, but of course many here in America think THEY are more knowledgable about the conditions on the gound in Iraq because they are "capable" of sitting on their asses watching the news.
My position is and will continue to be: OUR SOLDIERS who are there are the ones that know the truth.
They tell us in their blogs, their letters, their emails and their interviews.... yet people continue to ignore them because they think they have more knowlegde by watching the news.
Sickening.
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The cowards on the left are just that...cowards. They think talking to those that consider talking as weak is the RIGHT thing to do. Morons all. Code Pink should be renamed as Yellow Streak.
The boots on the ground are winning. I am in touch with folks that are still there after I left. The morons like Reid and the pelosi worm are dumber than a box of rocks.
As a friend of mine said in an email today, "They had better hurry up. The Sunni Sheiks are coming to our side and we just may have to come home because we won."
Reid is a moron and ANYONE that agrees with Reid and ITS ilk are morons in worse shape than the coward Reid is.
HOOAH!
spree,
Can you confirm my reasoning uppost?
To repeat:
Isn't saying that terrorists want to kill Americans really rooting for terrorists to kill Americans?
Why are Cheney, W, the MSM, you, et al rooting for terrorists to kill Americans?
Traitors. All of them.
"Tokyo Rose was charged with Treason Greg, so yes, I believe they could and should be."
Just a few differences: Japan was a declared enemy, Tokyo Rose was a paid employee of them and she broadcast propaganda from that country.
Spree, et.al...
I'm curious as to why you think the soldiers' opinions are so important to the debate? Yes, soldiers can know SOME facts on the ground, but only generally the "facts on the ground" near to them. I'm pretty sure, most of these soldiers, being grunts, aren't kept aware of the "big picture" situation as if they were a CO.
Also, you seem (at least) generally aware of our military and the basic training process. If so, you must be aware that the training has been honed over time to become the most well-functioning "deprogramming" process ever documented. Designed to "break" a man down to his base, animalistic tendencies, turn him into someone who, given seconds to respond to threats, will kill immeadiately without mulling over fancy, non-soldier things like morals and ethics. The process also works as a bonding agent with your fellow soldiers and, most importantly, makes you FAR LESS LIKELY to question authority or think for yourself. They're not called "grunts" because of their ability to articulate well reasoned debate...
These are not bad things, inherently, when trying to create a unquestioning killing machine (although being able to turn off "the switch" is as well-documented problem as PTSD when troops get back to "the world") but they do lead someone to the conclusion that most troops would parrot their leaders' opinions on how well a war is going, no matter what the big picture actually was. Also, psychologically, when you're in the "sh*t", the last thing your brain needs is doubt. Save doubt for when you're sitting at home on your porch.
So, I have to ask again. Why should what the troops think have any bearing on whether or not we're "winning" in Iraq given they're unlikely to give an honest or realistic assessment of the situation (on the ground)?
We can debate what "winning" means later. I tend to think that we've already won, given that we've achieved the 2 goals set by Congress' authority to go to war:
1- Removal of Saddam Hussein
2- Determining whether there were WMDs and confiscating them
It's the Bush Administration who kept moving the goalposts with this "spreading freedom" (as hard to accomplish as "ending terror") cr*p that they started peddling right after the war started. It's not our job to babysit the world, especially if we bankrupt our own country in the process.
Robert, the terrorists themselves have issued dozens of videos stating they wish to kill Americans.. that made no sense whatsoever...whatever you are drinking, can I have some please?
LOL
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Greg, then Reid has done worse, HE is spreading enemy propaganda from OUR COUNTRY.
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Chemist, soldiers are speaking that are stationed THROUGHOUT Iraq, and all of them are saying the same things... put all together, they ARE covering all the pertinent areas and yes they are the ones that KNOW what is happening on the ground, instead of being arm chair generals that think because you watch the news YOU are more informed than them.
To try to deny that one that is there knows more than one that is not, is a completely false premise to start with.
Our soldiers do not have political agendas, they tell us what they are seeing and either you believe them or you don't...I happen to believe our troops and their commanders FAR more than I believe our politicians or our media sources that sit comfylike in the green zone and use stringers for their information.
How difficult is the concept for you people to grasp.
Either you believe what our soldiers are telling us, or you do not.
So, if you don't...then SAY SO and quit trying to distort and distract.
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Chemist: well put. Soldiers opinions are no more or less valuable than any others.
Spree: Reid is spreading propaganda by saying the war is lost? That's kind of ...looney.
Anyway have a good evening.
Actually, to me, trying to deny it is looney.
But to each his/her own I guess.
This blog stands behind our troops and their words, actions and statements.
Too bad a few of you cannot say the same thing.
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PS.
If you really think YOUR knowledge of the conditions on the ground matches in any way, shape or form, our troops that are THERE and their knowledge, you are indeed suffering from delusions of grandeur.
How can one KNOW something they have no information on except what the media TELLS them to think and say.
It is ridiculous to think that you can be as informed as those that are there, but it is the PERFECT example of people claiming to know more than the experts do.
Thanks for showing us that example.
Fine. I don't believe what are soldiers are saying, Spree. They are only human, after all. I'm not saying I'm more informed, I'm just saying that they've been declaring "we're winning" where its later turned out that its obviously not the case so many times - so the burden of proof is now on you (and them) - to PROVE TO ME that this is worth it. Yeah, you've got an uphill battle on that one, but its your own damn fault for crying "victory" so often.
You didn't address any of my other points, but that's to be expected on sites like this. You find one point in a forest of points, refute it and think you've won the debate. Obviously you've never really debated.
You say our soldiers have no POLITICAL agenda. That may be true, but they do have an agenda: win. Because if they don't YOU Spree, and all of your "rah-rah" ilk, will be let down. Why don't you just let them come home? Or at least advocate a draft so they have some help?
Or is it not THAT important?
How has it been "proven" to you Chemist? Because you watch the news????
How gullible can you get?
Actually Chemist I am also working while trying to deal with "trolls".
YOU are the one trying to bring up points other than what is in the original post, I suggest you try to "distract and distort" on your own blog if you have one.
Here, we discuss the actual posts.
What is imp-ortant to ME Chemist, unlike you, is keeping America safe, and since YOU choose not to believe our soldiers, then it is your loss.
They have told us MULTIPLE times that they have not lost one single toe to toe battle, but do you care about that? NO
They have also told us MULTIPLE times that they see progress and successes that ISN'T BEING REPORTED TO YOU, but do you give a damn? NO
We see from our past that in the last 4 yrs we have lost LESS military men and women than in ANY other war in the same timeframe, our military is THAT good, but do you acknowledge these truths? NO.
Your arguments are nothing more than what your television tells you to think and say.
I pity you.
Back to work with me again.
For others that may comment, if my answers are slow, I apologize, I am jumping back and forth between 3 computers, setting up for my sale on tuesday, and packing for the flight I take on monday, but please feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
I will try to address what I can, when I can, if I miss a comment, again, my apologies.
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From American Ranger.
http://americanranger.blogspot.c...nt-
colonel.html
"I'm Tired"
Two weeks ago, as I was starting my sixth month of duty in Iraq, I was forced to return to the USA for surgery for an injury I sustained prior to my deployment. With luck, I'll return to Iraq to finish my tour.
I left Baghdad and a war that has every indication that we are winning, to return to a demoralized country much like the one I returned to in 1971 after my tour in Vietnam. Maybe it's because I'll turn 60 years old in just four months, but I'm tired:
I'm tired of spineless politicians, both Democrat and Republican who lack the courage, fortitude, and character to see these difficult tasks through.
I'm tired of the hypocrisy of politicians who want to rewrite history when the going gets tough.
I'm tired of the disingenuous clamor from those that claim they 'Support the Troops' by wanting them to 'Cut and Run' before victory is achieved.
I'm tired of a mainstream media that can only focus on car bombs and casualty reports because they are too afraid to leave the safety of their hotels to report on the courage and success our brave men and women are having on the battlefield.
I'm tired that so many Americans think you can rebuild a dictatorship into a democracy over night.
I'm tired that so many ignore the bravery of the Iraqi people to go to the voting booth and freely elect a Constitution and soon a permanent Parliament.
I'm tired of the so called 'Elite Left' that prolongs this war by giving aid and comfort to our enemy, just as they did during the Vietnam War.
I'm tired of antiwar protesters showing up at the funerals of our fallen soldiers. A family who's loved ones gave their life in a just and noble cause, only to be cruelly tormented on the funeral day by cowardly protesters is beyond shameful.
I'm tired that my generation, the Baby Boom -- Vietnam generation, who have such a weak backbone that they can't stomach seeing the difficult tasks through to victory.
I'm tired that some are more concerned about the treatment of captives than they are the slaughter and beheading of our citizens and allies.
I'm tired that when we find mass graves it is seldom reported by the press, but mistreat a prisoner and it is front page news.
Mostly, I'm tired that the people of this great nation didn't learn from history that there is no substitute for Victory.
Sincerely,
Joe Repya,
Lieutenant Colonel, U. S. Army
101st Airborne Division
AMEN Joe!!!!!!!!!!
Spree:
It's been proven to me because we are still in Iraq. If we had won, our troop presence would be nominal. Hence, all the claims that we were winning - as early as 2003 (don't make me mention the aircraft carrier incident) - were false. Has nothing to do with the media. Stop with your scapegoating.
And I don't need your pity or your scorn, sweetheart. I got more important things to worry about than whether some rah-rah, head in the sand, support the troop by killing or maiming him and then giving his family $20,000 for their trouble neo-con.
I'm also tired, Joe Col. I'm tired of all these b.s. points as if it had anything to do with 9/11 or the War on Terra! Stop complaining soldier and do your job or quit.
Seriously, these people are just men. Not Gods. They kill for a living. That's nothing to aspire to, despite your wish to canonize everyone who serves. They are not any better or worse than me, and my opinion counts just as much as theirs. I could pick apart that factually incorrect letter point by point (Now I see the direct effect of only broadcasting FOX news) but it seems like a waste of time. Your opinion is not going to change. Even if I held up the proof to your face.
Maybe one day soldiers will actually protect my freedoms, and when that day comes, I'll be grateful. Until then, keep in mind that I pay your salary and you're about to get fired.
We're trained to kill for an underpaid wage, this is true. We're trained to kill for a living so that your spiteful ass can sit here and snottily tell us how you won't be grateful until one of us actually does something to save your smarmy ass to live another day and draw another breath.
We are not gods, none of us who have served or any of those who serve now. But I will tell you this, "Chemist," better men than you have died for a greater cause, what have you done for your fellow man?
"I'm tired of the so called 'Elite Left' that prolongs this war by giving aid and comfort to our enemy, just as they did during the Vietnam War."
Elite Left? What does that mean, someone who learned to look and read and think for themselves?
Here's another opinion by someone who is not the Elite Left, a whining hippy,or an Al-Qaeda apologist or a coward. I suggest you put down your tin-foil hats and listen to someone who can look fearlessly, and think clearly about what he sees.
http://www.ivaw.org/node/568
Jack, here are 2166 Iraq active military and Iraq war veterans that disagree with that man.
http://www.appealforcourage.org/...rg/
Default.aspx
I respect his opinion, but he is definitely in the minority when it comes to this issue.
Why would I consider one when 2100+ (just on THAT site)are telling us differently.
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That doesn't take into account the countless other veterans who did our time prior to Iraq who disagree as well.
Oh Spree! you've got quite the houseful of company!
All I can say is it just proves you can't teach the unteachable. I say this because it doesn't matter what one says in rebuttal through facts and boots on the ground first hand knowledge, those who want to believe we're losing aren't going to change their minds, as proven here.
Chemist said ~ "Seriously, these people are just men. Not Gods. They kill for a living. That's nothing to aspire to, despite your wish to canonize everyone who serves. They are not any better or worse than me, and my opinion counts just as much as theirs."
As the mother of a soldier, I take offense to those words. But you will never understand why. You will never understand the beliefs and thought that goes into the decision to become a soldier and raise your right hand and swear to protect the Constitution and defend this country. If you did you would never have thought the words "theat's nothing to aspire to" nevermind using them in an argument against this war. Just shows that you have no idea what makes a soldier tick or why they do what they do.
You will never understand why, as the mother of a soldier who raised her right hand and is willing to do her duty no matter where it takes her, the actions of those such as Reid, Pelosi, Murtha and Kerry raise our hackles. Plus, the fact that we know that the enemy is watching these actions and seeing weakness in our leaders and that this will bring about more attacks on our soldiers and the people they are trying to protect. Anything that does not help our troops, we're rather prickly about and Harry Reid saying for all the world to hear that we have lost this war does not, in any way shape or form, help our troops.
The soldiers I've talked to are not too happy with this either. Not at all, in fact.
Hawk:
The snottiness was not started by me, but by Spree (literally saying she pitys me). Sorry if it offends you but its my nature to give what I get.
I'm all for you getting paid more (that would probably help the recruitment problem) but remember it wasn't me who decided how much you get paid, it was the "Support the Troops" people. They decided that billion-dollar weapons systems are more important than you making a living wage. I think that if you look at the actions of so-called "supporters" instead of their words (which is really what this entire thread is about: how much manly soldiers are hurt by words) honestly, I'll think you'll come to the same conclusion I have: a yellow ribbon magnet ain't gonna do you or your family much good when you're leg is blown off.
Yes, better men than me have died for great causes (I, unlike the military people on this site, don't think I'm better than others who haven't served). Who are we talking about ? Ghandi? MLK? The last soldiers that I can tell died for a greater cause fought in WWII.
As far as what I owe you for my freedom, I think we're square. You ought to try stepping out of your cloistered military world once in the while. You've apparently been so inundated with abject praise during your term as a soldier you've probably never actually wondered why you think you're better than me. Or why, despite higher rates of divorce and spouse abuse, somehow you've cornered the market on bettering humanity (through killing, how different).
Your thinly veiled attempts at questioning my manhood are just ridiculous. When and if the foreign invaders come to our shore I'll be first to take up arms to defend my family and country. I would gladly give my life in defense of them. But you're deluding yourself if the think Iraq has anything to do with American freedom.
How about thirty-three years of military experience, retiring after 25 years' active at O-6? One who has lived during the terms of 15 presidents? One who has known and followed wars? One who still spends time with the families of the enlisted because he knows how difficult this all is? One who has signed off on enough death notices and held more wives than most of you can count?
War sucks. It always has and it always will. Want to honor our servicemen and women? Get them out of a situation in which they never should have been in the first place. And then do something legislatively to ensure that no president can ever use our people as pawns in his game, e.g., conscription for all those able for two years with a small core standing force?
This war was lost before it began because the mission was unclear (no end goal and too many smaller tasks for which the military is not built).
Don't like the truth? Suck it up, tune out, and let the adults take charge of this country. We'll all be better off.
As long as we have a CinC who doesn't know how to manage, lead, or take responsibility in any area under his command, we're all screwed... yet another reason to get our sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, husbands and wives, sisters and brothers out of Iraq.
Bush was, is and always will be unable to face the consequences of his actions because he was never taught what his balls were for. Now, he has none having handed them off to that chicken-shit warmonger Cheney who is more responsible than anyone for stupid conflicts.
If you want to disparage your fellow citizens for not understanding because they haven't served. Then you also need to lambaste our President and VP for ducking out when they had a chance. This is all being done in the name of all of us which means anyone who is an American has a say and as long as this is still America, they can call the situation whatever they want without repercussion. That's what I fought for all those years!
Wow, so many experts!!
Here's an idea, if you think we're losing the war get a degree and help win it!! I'm sure the Administration could do with such great advice.
Just do us all a favour and don't let the people brave enough to fight know we're losing. It might come as such a suprise that they may lose their incentive to fight.
Hawk and Spree...Great Job!!
With all due respect, Colonel, wouldn't you agree that the President needs to be the CinC instead of the Congress or the Senate trying to take that role, as well?
I agree war sucks, it always has, it always will. There is nothing pleasant or desirable about the business of killing.
And as to a clear cut "end goal," this conflict is the first one that I've ever heard of us going into and planning on it being long term where an "end goal" was mentioned. I don't recollect Eisenhower having to give Roosevelt a plan for an "end goal."
Someone once said earlier "don't compare this with WWII." I see no reason not to do so, any more than I see no reason not to compare it with Vietnam or Korea.
We enter to win.
That is the "end goal."
The reason people have turned against the war is because of how it was portrayed by Bush and the members of his administration. From the very beginning, we were told it was going to be a cake walk, we'd be greeted with flowers, Iraqi oil would pay for everything, etc.
As things got worse, the story remained the same. From Bush landing on an aircraft carrier to Cheney's last throes comment, every word that came from the White House was about how great everything was going.
There was a failure of leadership from the President to properly define the terms of the conflict, what our goals were, and the length of time it would take.
There was a failure in leadership when it was decided to conduct the war on "the cheap" with the fewest possible soldiers. If this war is "lost", that is ultimately the decision that lost it.
I love your site!
And to all the nay sayers...
Please tell my son and the rest of the Warriors in the 4-9 Cav that they are losing. For some reason what the men are witnessing is not what Harry Reid keeps telling the world the Warriors are witnessing.
And Chemist, I just saw your reply.
I've been out of uniform for over 20 years, hombre. That doesn't mean that I don't take offense at our military being berated in such ways. We had enough of that bull during the Vietnam era. As to what was thought of me for my own service? My family was against it from the time I first showed an interest to enlisting until the time I was out of service, and it's still a wedge between us today. No "attaboys" from those who should have been the most supportive for me. I was the pariah.
There are things that go on in our world that the average citizen has no idea ever happens because there are those out there willing today to put their lives on the line to keep American families free. Many of these things have nothing to do with Iraq, some of them do.
I'm the first to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the Bush administration. There are things, many things, that I disagree with them on, including in regards to the handling of the war as a whole.
That being said.
How is it safer for us if the troops leave the region and don't keep the terrorist organizations under the gun and on the move? How is it safer for us to leave the Middle East so that these groups can recoordinate and reorganize?
It isn't.
I can fully see that it's going to take another incident on the scale of 9/11 for Americans to fully understand that the threat is not over by any means.
God help us all.
Aussie Chick, thankeee, yankeemom, well said and thank YOU for backing your son and his desire to win and thank you too PCMom.
night all.
So all these "experts" say "bring the troops home NOW", and that we are "losing the war"....
You all are a bunch of wankers. Really ya are. MY sources tell a very different story to what Reid says, and MY sources have facts and boots-on the-ground, look-the-enemy-in-the-eye first hand knowledge. And yes - history WILL prove them right...
Oh and yes - let's tell the Iraqi people who ARE stepping up and rebuilding their country as a democracy that we are losing the war for their future.
So we have lost 3000+ troops? Try telling it to their families that their loved ones died fighting a losing war. None of you have the balls to look any of these families in the eye as they tell YOU that their loved ones believed in this mission. And you certainly are not fit to lick the boots of any one of those families. Oh and a little historical note for ya wankers here. In Vimy Ridge the Canadians lost 3000+ soldiers in mere hours (I believe from 5.30am to 11.30am) BUT no one said we had lost THAT battle or that war. Nobody said we need to cut the funding now cos we have lost the war.. Oh and WW2? I don't remember reading ANYWHERE in British military history that ANY politician stood up half way through and said "we have lost the war". That IS treason now (aiding and abetting the enemy..the Iranians are just loving Harry these days.lol) as it would have been treason then.
Oh and someone mentioned a recruitment 'problem'? Not from where I sit. BUT wait - I see the statistics. IF we are losing, why is the US military consistently meeting or exceeding their enlistment goals? Hmmmmm...Maybe the ones enlisting are the same ones who pleaded with John Kerry to "Halp us....we are stuk in Irak"????? You know - the poor, uneducated kids with no other options in life..the ones who didn't study hard???
You wankers really are a waste of oxygen. YOU are the uneducated morons. As has been said by others far more eloquent than I, you all need to STFU and let OUR troops do the job they volunteered to do...Keep your asses out of trouble, safe here in America, AND give the Iraqis back a safe country to live and raise their kids.
"Bring the troops home"???????? By supporting the underfunding - the effects of which are immenently about to be felt across the board btw - you guarantee that we WILL be fighting this war on our own shores. But hey, don't be calling on any of our troops to save your sorry asses then. Too late - and nobody will answer your calls for "halp".
God bless our troops!
For the record Chemist, my pitying you has nothing to do with snottiness.
I pity "anyone" that cannot understand the meaning of honor, nor honoring our commitment to 12 million Iraqi people that voted for freedom.
I pity anyone that does not "believe" our troops when they give firsthand eyewitness accounts of the actualities on the ground in Iraq because they are there and you are not.
I pity anyone that feels that they know more than our troops about Iraq from watching the "news".
I pity anyone that cannot understand that keeping our promises used to mean something.
I pity anyone that cannot acknowledge our troops sacrifices and feels the need to degrade them by doubting what they say becuse it does not match the ideology you live by.
If you interpret that pity as snottiness, that is YOUR personal view based on YOUR own feelings.
Never assume to know what I am thinking because I will state clearly what I think anytime of the year.
Hawk:
You had me for awhile, and then you got all condescending (sigh) again.
Count me with your family in not being able to understand someone's decision to become a professional soldier. Sorry, just can't understand saving the world with the barrel of a gun. It makes about as much sense as religious conversion at the point of a gun. Looks convincing at the beginning, but if you think its going to last once you leave, you're not going to be satisfied with the end result.
Another poster commented about how we (the civilians) can never understand the mentality, let alone the sacrifices, that soldiers and their families make.
The implication is that those of us who choose to not enter in the military are lesser Americans, and by your estimation, less of a human being. This is a type of bigotry that I DON'T understand.
If our founding fathers thought so much of the military than why is the Constitution full of checks and balances on the military? They made a civilian Commander in Chief and gave the ability to declare war only to Congress. They didn't make military service a requirement for citizenship. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about that. You wouldn't listen to mine anyway.
As far as your desire for another 9/11 in order to set us straight, well... that really kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it.
Hawk,
"We enter to win.
That is the "end goal.""
That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard but is very indicative of this WH and its supporters. Obviously, you know little about planning. Win what? That's the problem.
As for you wusses who think fighting a losing war is demoralizing, it is. You know what's worse? When you're fighting a losing war and the dipshits at the top can't figure out a way to put an end to it because they never figured out why we were there.
Give the US military a goal and the mission will be accomplished... and not in some lame ass political, crotch stuffing event by a wimp exec. It will be won on the ground where it counts. You want to ensure that the sacrifices already given in this losing effort have a meaning? Get on your knees and pray that they are held up as heroes for our country while ensuring they are also held up as examples of what should never be again.
Stop clinging to hope because we all know the old Corps saying about hope... get them home, thank them, and then ensure our kids, grandkids, and theirs never again experience it.
Dear Home Page.
Why don't you "support our troops" indeed and ask Mr. Bush to stop sending back our troops for third and fourth deployments?
Why don't you "Support our troops" by demanding some accountanility for all the mistakes in the conduct for the war in Iraq???
Why don't you support our troops by asking the President to win or get out?
Why don't you support our troops by demanding that the Iraqi Government get their act together?
Why don't you support our troops by calling for a review of our Veteran benefits and why they have gone down under the Bush Administration?
Why don't you support our troops by demanding that our Army get's a larger share of the Pentagon's budget??
Reason I ask is because the only way I see you "supporting our troops" is by attacking Democrats that are trying to help them.
If empty slogans make you feel like you are "supporting our troops" fine.... Just let's not pretend that you Republicans actually "Support" any troops..... No dear Republicans, what you do is you USE OUR TROOPS as cover for a failed policy.
Please do the descent thing and defend your ideas without hiding behind the troops. Please stop pretending that to disagree with Bush's failures in Iraq is some how not supporting the troops. We are all adults here, so let's start acting like we are OK?
Obviously we are going to disagree and convince each other of nothing. As to the "dumbest thing you've ever heard," I'm sure in your years of service you've heard much worse, but thanks anyway.
Planning and strategy? That all came after the military during college, during the military history course, the civil war course, so on and so forth, so yes, I do have some understanding of long term planning and strategies, as well as a good solid grip on covert ops and intelligence, having studied both history and political science courses under a retired mil intel officer. Through religious studies and philosophy into the mix through the years, you come up with quite a hodgepodge of things going on in the mind.
The bottom line with the Middle East in general is this: our enemy is a tenacious, zealous, fervent one. Conflicts have been waging in the Middle East since there has BEEN a Middle East.
Know what?
This is ludicrous and too involved simply for a reply. This is going to take much more in depth analysis than simply bantering back and forth. It's been a long day, a long week, part of which was spent ill, and I'm going to bed.
Have a good evening.
Oh, and Chemist, our ballance sheet is clear, amigo. You may have pity from spree, I'm not so yeilding.
Rest well.
Spree:
I pity anyone that thinks honor can only come from taking another human beings life.
I pity anyone who thinks a so-called commitment to citizens of another country trump those of your own countrymen.
I pity anyone who only takes SOME troops version of reality into consideration because THEIR IDEOLOGY needs validation.
I pity those who cannot make the simple connection between our military meddling in the past to our military meddling in the present or how it will effect what we'll have to meddle with in the future.
I pity someone who thinks that a weblog from someone they don't know is somehow more factually reliable than any other media given what we've read on the internet before.
I pity anyone who thinks that in addition to giving their lives, soldiers also need to be dirt poor so that some people can make billions on the product of war.
Pity lists are fun. Wheeee!
Once again: The burden of proof is not on me. On one hand, you've got hudreds of letters from soldiers. Someone else posted links to websites where thousands of soldiers think differently. Then there are the Iraqis whom, all recent data suggests, are eager for us to leave (and its not because we are doing a good job). It is their country. Or is part of your "promise" (I didn't promise them anything, BTW) keeping a military presence in an Arab country indefinitely, inciting Muslims around the world to hate us for generations?
Please move to Iraq. They are more important to you than your fellow Americans. I'm sure they'll appreciate your delicious, sarcastic, back-handed pity. I mean its definitely just only me getting that vibe.
I'm waiting for you to state anything clearly that's not veiled in self-sanctimony or fake pity.
Brat:
Yes its sad when our soldiers die needlessly in wars of choice. Yes its hard on the family. But we can't kill more soldiers so that the families of the dead ones won't feel worse. Worse than what? Losing a son or daughter... I'm pretty sure you couldn't make it worse: they buried THEIR CHILD.
Soldiers are also adults. They made a choice. Their parents, children and spouses will have to live with that - I'm pretty sure the actual death of their loved one is more saddening than the reasons for his death.
Answer to Spree.
Frankly Spree I pity you.
I pity you for confusing a quagmire from hell with no end in sight with something noble.
I pity you for your ignorance in believing that some how you can change a thousand years of hatred between Sunni and Shiite just because Bush believes it can be done. You know Bush? Is the same man that went to the U.N. to declare that Iraq was full of WMD's , and is the same man that stood with a "Mission Accomplished" banner, and is the same man that was turning the corner 3 years ago, and standing behind Rumsfeld as our best Secretary of Defense, and is the same man that said that he was following the advice of his Generals in the field.... Until his Generals started telling him things that he did not want to hear. Bush has lost his right to be our leader, Bush in fact has no shame indeed. If ours was a Parlamentary Democracy he would be long gone in disgrace. As it is we have to stand the idiot for two more years and pretend that he has any "plans" or answers.
I know that there is nothing Bush can say or do that will make you Republicans loose faith in him.... But for the rest of us Americans, and for the entire world... That point was reached a long time ago and for darn good reasons. If you want to continue to support an moron is your right, just don't be surprised if in the next elections your party is sent into a dead spiral.
God knows you Republicans are asking for it.... And you know what they say... Be careful what you ask because you might get it. You want this war to continue? OK !! give your support to Bush right up to election time in 08 ... Let's find out if the people considered you supported Bush or the troops. Let's see how much the American people appreciates the fact that in "supporting our troops" you Republicans put our Army on the ropes,and spent hundreds of billions of Dollars to "buy" us a Civil War at best and a quagmire from hell at worst.
Way to go, gil.
Pity party for GW!!! He's gonna need it real soon - fake or no.
Well, the cut-n-run talking points have all been covered here, I do believe.
Keep on believing it all, even though there is evidence to the contrary - do some research in places other than the Netroots blogs and the media. You might be surprised at what you find. But then again...you've already surrendered so why waste your time. And it's apparent that you can't see past the so called quagmire that you hold so fast to anyway.
Recent correspondence from a Marine who has served in Afghanistan and Iraq: "Unless you want the bad guys in your neighborhood, let your service members do their job, train the Iraqis, and come home. Until then, support them like they were your own, because they are."
Look, I'm not a member of ANY political party. I am an AMERICAN. It is so beyond me how this great nation has come to this point - to where so many are blinded by reality. We can argue truth and fiction all day long - everyone will have an opinion. The bottom line is that the reality is we MUST WIN the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or this great nation will no longer be in any form that our Founding Fathers left it to us nor will the generations to come know or be able to enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of choice...
Partisanship and self serving politicians are sending us to hell. How is that so impossible to see?
Answer to Yanjemom.
OH yes mom, I can see past the quagmire. In fact I could see past the quagmire from the start, and so did the Arab neighbors of Iraq, and the Europeans, and millions of Americans, and billions of people around the world.
In fact we could see so clearly that we told you so BEFORE the invasion.... Now please spare me with your "can't see" thing will you? If any one could not see is the likes of you, and the Republicans that arrogantly called the people that warned you of the consecuences of invading Iraq "Appeasers".
Today, I can see this mom. We stay we loose, and we live we loose. Now congratulations Republicans !!! What a great way of conducting foreign policy!! We stay until "victory" goes the party line.... What victory? The Shiite victory? So that the Shiite in Iraq can ally themselves to Iran??? Is that your victory Republicans??? OH but as long as we have a talking point, and a slogan we "win" is that it Republicans? I don't know at what point you Republicans left hearth and went to live in the twilight zone, but this "Republican patriotic party" thing does not work any more. Look at the polls and tell me if you see any one other that the usual 30% buying your B.S. anymore.
Republicans are basically telling Americans that they don't support the troops because we are against a policy that ask us to spend hundreds of billioms of Dollars more, with no strings attached on top of the hundreds of billions already spent because a "Leader" that has not been correct about anithing once, ask us to?
What on hearth do you people take us for, fools?
Cachick.
One of the most incredibly idiotic lines from the Republicans is the "We fight them there so that we don't fight them here" .
Is there a terrorist contract I don't know about? Did Osama sign a contract limiting himself to fight us in Iraq and Afghanistan I missed?
Is there a logical reason why can't terrorist fight us there and here?
In short Republicans please stop insulting our intelligence will you?
As for the training of Iraqi troops ... Dear, I hate to brake the news to you but 350,000 Iraqi troops are already trained, and "ready" to fight... Too bad is not for us, or for their "Democracy".
And even if by some miracle they were, the Shiite are the ones that win, the Iranians are the ones that win, not us.... Bush made sure with his incredible stupidity that we had no way of winning period.
To all you Republicans on this blog I challenge you to tell me how do we win, if the ultimate consecuence of the "victory" is to give the Shiite absolute power of Iraq so that they can ally themselves to Iran? You know Al Sadr that Shiite? or Al Sistani that Shiite?. In your "victory" they will be in power....
WOW!!! Now that's what I call progress... We would change a maniac despot dictator for two maniac despot dictators allied to Iran to top it off!! ANd we spend hundreds of billions and thousands of lives of our best to accomplish this incredible .... help me here people I am at a loss for words ... OH yes, this incredible sorry ass mess.
Dear Republicans after this debacle in Iraq, we Americans would not even dream of putting you in charge of cutting the grass at the White House, let alone run the Government as the majority party. You can kiss that good bye for a long long time, mark my words. Is back to Governing 101 for you guys. Chapter one; Never follow a fool to a fool's errand.
Boy, Spree, the nutters are out in force and it's not even a full moon!
I guess chemist doesn't believe in police or law enforcement either, since law is enforced while armed. Must be an anarchist in disguise--probably puffing on his bong while coming up with more designer drugs to test for his delusions.
I've seen enlistment quotas met and exceeded. And, yes, I've seen divorce and spousal abuse from service men and women--it's about on average for the rest of the high risk professions, such as law enforcement.
My adopted soldier in Afghanistan (trains the new police forces there) reports major success and welcoming locals.
We have excellent news all the way around from the people who count--the troops and boots on the ground. The defeatists just can't stand the idea of VICTORY because they're so invested in defeat. I truly think their heads will spin and blow up (ala the fembots in Austin Powers)WHEN we DO WIN. And we will.
I keep hearing all the talking points of oil (only 5% of our oil comes from Iraq, 12% from the Middle East overall; 48% from Canada yet we're not at war with Canada) and all the "mistakes" made during the war. Well, my challenge is--and no one has been able to accept it--show me a perfectly prosecuted war that DIDN'T contain numerous mistakes? The military analyzes the mistakes, learns from them and proceeds with the strategy. And with an enemy such as this one, there WILL be mistakes and constant re-adjustments. That's the nature of the beast we're fighting this time around.
As for the allegation someone made above (either gil or chemist) about WANTING another 9/11? Would LOVE to have some of what you're smoking! NO ONE WANTS another 9/11, but that's flat out what it's gonna take to wake up the defeatists. That's simply reality. 9/11 taught them NOTHING and they've LEARNED NOTHING, so, it WILL keep happening until they DO learn something--and it will be accelerated if reid and pukoski get their wish.
Notice how these defeatists are more worried about the murderers in Gitmo getting special privileges than they are about our troops getting what they NEED? Oh, and only 3% of the national budget has been spent on defense---the majority of the rest of the national budget has been spent on pork and welfare projects that haven't worked for decades, becoming generational systems instead of helping people get back on their feet. But they don't talk about the real budgetary problems or they're contribution to them by electing the same people into office year after year.
It is perfectly possible to 1) WIN THIS WAR 2) FUND THE TROOPS, THEIR FAMILIES AND THE VETERANS PROPERLY 3) PASS A CLEAN BILL FOR THE TROOPS WITHOUT ALL THE PORK. Eliminate the pork and pass the bills the right way, get off the soap box of billions wasted--the defense budget and billions paid is precisely WHY this war has had as few casualties as it has. The troops are trained in the technology to keep deaths down
The very fact that we are having this argument at this late date is proof that we have lost.
All you war supporters...tell me with a straight face that back in 2003 you expected that we'd still be fighting 4 years later.
I didn't think so....
Part of an email I just received from a COL at CentCom:
Just wanted to pass some info from one of our Marine Colonel's in Iraq
concerning the Secretary of Defense, Mr. Gates, the Chairman, Joint
Chief of Staff, Gen Peter Pace and MNF-I Commanding General U.S.
CENTCOM, Admiral Fallon. His his comments, word for word...
- Good visit with SecDef, CJCS, and CG USCENTCOM
- During overflight of Baghdad last night with a Washington Post
reporter, Baghdad showed signs of recovery with large amusement parks
open, restaurants open, shops open, gas stations open with short lines,
hundreds of soccer games being played, and security present throughout
the city.
Now, lets see if the Washington Post and others print this stuff!!!!
Answer to Beth.
You know Beth since you pay so much attention to the soldiers on the grownd let me remind you of what the soldiers on the grownd were saying before they got fired by the "Decider" for saying the wrong thing.
Gen. Shenseky. We will need over 200,000 troops and years to secure Iraq. Dismissed.
Gen. Abizaid. We need more troops and new strategies. Wrong timing. Dismissed.
Gen. Casey and Obierno. We need more troops, Iraq is moving to a Civil War statement. Dismissed.
Your new hero Gen. Petraeus. Lost command of the training of Iraqi security forces when he voiced his frustration with operational matters.
So dear Beth the last thing you are going to make me buy, is your theory that the boots on the grownd are telling us anithing other than what this administration whant us to hear. To do otherwise is to invite immediate dismissal. Bush and Rumsfeld were for less troops not more and several Generals lost their jobs over that.... And now the "Desider" has had a change of hearth three years too late and we have ourslves a "surge" . Go figure ... the guy is slow I guess... 4 years ago Shenseky was telling him just that.
Now the surge dear Beth is designed to buy time for political progress... You see any political progress in Iraq????? Or do you think we need not put to much preassure on Mr. Al Malaki to PRODUCE... Hey, let's not bother the man, we can keep on spending hundreds of billions that we never planned to spend, and continue to send back our troops for fourth and fifth tours (You really support the troops indeed... To get killed that is)into eternity .
The "defeatists" are telling you dear Beth that your victory parade needs to start producing something other than saliva, and empty adjetives. As I pointed out already .... The "defeatist" around the world warned you people of what mess you were about to start.... You know Beth you are like the crazy man that continues to reject help while drowning in a pool because " The people trowing me the life saver don't believe I can swim ... Bunch of defeatist"
Fact is Beth you don't know how to swim, and you are going to drown in the pool calling your would be saviors "defeatists". Your side already ignored the same "defeatist" telling you not to invade Iraq in the first place .... And look where you are!!! But some people just never learn.
I challenged the likes of you already to tell me how do you win in Iraq Beth. If the Shiite take unchallenged control they will ally themselves to Iran ... THAT IS A FACT. How is that victory Beth??? Care to explain that one to us "defeatists"?
spree at 5:03,
I think you missed my point.
If "saying" we are losing the war is wanting (or rooting) for us to lose the war, how is "saying" that they want to kill us not wanting (or rooting) for them to kill us?
Thanks for letting me know that you take the terrorists word as gospel though.
Robert, saying they "want" to kill us is simply stating their previusly publicized stated opinions.
For the majority Senator leader to "claim" that wehave already lost when there is amazing success at the time, is simply an uneducated dishonest "opinion" of a Democrat that has already stated publicy , and I quote "We are going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.”
To Reid, the politics are dictating his actions even if they cause more death for our soldiers.
Here is a quick example of what I see when ya'll make utter fools of yourselves this way:
When conservatives saw the emails that Mark Foley sent to the page, we immediately called for his dismissal, quickly, unconditionally and not one conservative tried to "excuse" or "explain" or lie and distort his intentions, EVEN THOUGH, no criminal charges have been filed to this day, because WE ARE CAPABLE OF ADMITTING WHEN ONE OF OUR OWN DOES WRONG.
From all the comments here, it simply proves what we have been saying this whole time about Democrats, they are unwilling and unabale to admit when one of THEIRS screws up.
You folks do not have the intellectual honesty to be capable of looking at Reids actions and simply saying "he screwed up".
Instead you have to distract by bring up "other" things, go on the attack because you cannot stand to see the truth printed and published and basically have a cow because on of your own was caught saying something incredibly stupid, something that our troops are saying repeatedly is demoralizing them and our enemies are stating publicly are emboldening them.
This is the perfect example of why the Democrats have had the stigma of being weak on National Security and why they will continue to keep that stigma.
For further comments, if my answers are slow, I am packing, and getting ready for my trip, so my responses might be slow.
.
There are several fallacies in your argument gil, along with several grammatical and spelling mistakes--thereby making you look even sillier and more wild eyed than usual. Most people that think intelligently bother to use proper grammar in stating an argument and try to catch their spelling errors. Otherwise they appear as rabid as they sound.
I noticed you blatantly ignored the challenge I threw down--show me a perfectly prosecuted war with no mistakes. You have, once again, failed to do so, as have all the defeatists--and I reiterate ALL--since I began throwing that challenge down.
I also suppose more of your "inconvenient truth" revolves around you defeatists have forgotten your leaders--Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Pelosi and Bubba--were fully supportive of the war effort when it started and have forgotten the truth of the video running around youtube showing their support. So your strawman argument about the warnings not to go in are not relevant. New media keeps things like that around forever.
Why don't you and others of your ilk admit that in your blindy rabid BDS, none of you can face the fact that Bush has kept his promises--he said the war would not be short-term and we had to plan for the long-term. He didn't say it once, but several times. The ultimate fact is those who suffer from BDS don't have the guts to do what needs to be done, take the time to do it properly (had the UN not tied Bush I's hands, it would have been finished in 1991--tied his hands like y'all are trying to do again thereby insuring we will have to go back yet again if we don't finish this here and now and do it properly), you are all a bunch of spineless, gutless, yellow-bellied wimps, and Bush is the only one with the cajones to stand firm and get the job done. Because he's not saying what you want to hear in your "rosie" colored world, you tune out.
So, ultimately, it comes down to spinelessness on the part of the defeatists, distraction attempts from things actually said and by whom, blind BDS because you can't control Bush, and the fact you want nothing more than to be the weaklings of the world rather than the strong nation we are.
If you're so enamored with being spineless, gutless, yellow-bellied wimps, go to France.
Oh and let's see--you also forgot to address the oil issue (why we aren't at war with Canada when they are the major importers of our foreign oil)as well as the fact the billions spent on defense are only 3% of the national budget while the majority of the rest of the spending is for defeatists pet pork projects such as welfare and affirmative action (allegedly humanitarian projects but simply racism in disguise) and the fact that those billions spent are on the technology that has contributed the greatly reduced troop casualties. I'll see if you'll dodge this question as well--would you rather not spend those billions on technology that significantly cuts troop casualties and go back to the way the casualty rosters used to read? Technology is expensive and I'm happy to pay for that technology for the lives it has and continues to save.
The assumptions so blindly accepted that our troops are mere grunts is an insult to any true patriot. We have the smartest, best trained, most versatile military there is, but people such as yourself and Kerry seem intractable in putting out there our troops are nothing more than dumb people too stupid to do anything more than be trained to blindly kill.
You assume each and every soldier kills, in fact, gleefully and joyfully and for that you are indeed very sick. Not one of the men and women I've met that has had to kill has been joyful or gleeful about it--they mourn those they are forced to kill.
You also avoided the issue of differentiating between those trained to kill as soldiers and those trained to kill as law enforcement officers. Tell me, what is the difference? BOTH the soldier and the officer is there to protect YOU--but you'd rather spit on them and call them names. Do you think, deep down, after all the hate you and those of your ilk have thrown at them, they wouldn't rather just turn their backs on you? But they DON'T--not like you and your ilk REPEATEDLY turn YOUR backs on those that protect you.
And tell me how pulling out now and surrendering makes us safer from Iran--go ahead, this should be great comedy!
Well said Miss Beth, I couldn't have stated it any better myself.
Thank you and of course no one is going to answer your challenge because there is no answer.
All one has to do is a quick easy search on mistakes made for previous wars to get a LONG list of mistakes and re-adjustments in EVERY one of them.
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Thanks Spree--I'm so tired of their pseudo-intelligence, they're hate spewing at our troops, calling them dumb, insulting them, calling them children...so patronizing and yet it's their party of defeat that refuses to pass a clean funding bill for the troops THEY say WE only support with lip service.
They freely admit they haven't even pondered the extensive soul searching a man or woman goes through before deciding to volunteer their very lives to this country, but boy they can sure throw hatred and lies at them.
Nor do they even analyze why, with all the hatred thrown at the troops from the defeatists and the attempts to cut them off at the knees (metaphorically speaking, of course, there are truly courageous men and women who STILL volunteer to protect these slime bags rights by serving.
They certainly dropped the Walter Reed issue quickly when even the Victory proponents pointed out it was a failure on ALL fronts, not just Bush's fault. They don't like being included as those that dropped the ball. But they'll certainly throw up the permanently maimed heroes we have in their pseudo support. Heroes that volunteered and fought instead of sitting comfortably in their armchairs Monday morning quarterbacking.
They make me sick.
Little note to you Miss Beth on my latest post, after the poll.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....america-
to.html
Thanks SO much!!!!
I just posted a little story there--I think I'll post it here as well. Sorry if I'm hijacking your comments, Spree, but I think this illustrates what the trolls refuse to see (you know, if those that can see refuse to see, if those that can hear refuse to hear, shake the dust of them off your shoes and move on).
We lost a young man on Palm Sunday. By all accounts, he was truly an exceptional young man, a true loss as all our losses and the civilian losses are.
Yet, this young man was not yet a US citizen. Even not being a citizen, he CHOSE to serve his adopted country, he CHOSE to volunteer and ultimately give his life for US, because he loved this country and all it stood for so much. He wasn't born into all the freedoms we take for granted, but he knew just what he was doing and supported those freedoms the only way he knew how.
All of those studying for their citizenship and taking the tests--I applaud them. However, this young man took it a step further. Rather than just studying, he GAVE HIS LIFE for his adopted country. He GAVE HIS LIFE for his fellow citizens, for the ones who sit on their keesters and spew filth at him and his fellow soldiers and defenders just as much as for those of us who support these men and women. He GAVE HIS LIFE for people like chemist and gil who smugly sit back and declare the heroes like him to be mere, ignorant grunts and killing machines.
He GAVE HIS LIFE for the country he loved and wanted to be a citizen of one day. He PASSED his citizenship studies in spades--bypassing all the books and going straight for the action.
While it will never lessen the pain and anguish his family and friends suffer over his death, he was awarded the one thing that meant so much to him. He received his citizenship posthumously. He put his money where his mouth was. He let his actions speak to his love of the United States. And ultimately, he was given his fondest wish--his citizenship into the country he loved so much.
HIJACK away anytime you want.
What a great example Beth and thank you very much for posting that here.
Answer to Betsy.
Betsy, I could care less if Clinton supported the war.... I am not a Democrat dear, and you are wrong the war is a mistake it always was..... And the Democrats unlike people like you, are recognizing they made a mistake in supporting the war (does that did). Specking of mistakes Beth I would much rather make grammatical mistakes than make the tragic mistake to follow an idiot that has cost thousands of lives and huindreds of Billions of Dollars.... Any "victory" in the horizon Beth???? OH, Don't tell me.... Is coming right??? Is just us the "defeatist" that are stopping you... If we only would stop you heroes will have this mess already solved!! I am holding you Beth!!! Is me that keeps this war going !!! OH and the soldiers on their third tour, are not demoralised by their repeated tours but by people like me trying to keep them home.. Because you see we don't support the troops, you do!! by sending them back again, and again, and again and giving Iraq corrupt politicians every brake as the years go by and none to our soldiers. I just have a question Beth.... What's your adress in the twilight Zone?
By the way Beth, since you are telling me that I loose credibility because of my Grammer .... Have you checked your God Bush's "Bushisms"? ... The man has created a multi million Dollar industry dedicated entirely to call on his incoherence's, distortion of the English language, and creation of new words. Oddly enoug that does not affect Bush's credibility in your eyes... Only mine. How nice Beth.
Beth please educate yourself in more than Grammer.BUSH NEVER SAID THE WAR IN IRAK WAS GOING TO LAST A LONG TIME. He said the War on terrorism was going to last a long time. No one dear Beth even remotely planned for this war in Iraq.... Please stop LYING BETH will you?
Another thing Beth... Who the hell is assuming that our soldiers are not smart or mere grunts as you put it???? I gave you a list of Generals that disagreed with Bush and lost their jobs... So stop hiding behind our troops to justify your policies Beth. You can understand the difference of not supporting a policy and not supporting the troops can you???? .... Or can't you? Because if you can't you are not an American any longer Beth... You are a Republican partisan Hack.
I assume that "soldiers kill in fact gleefully and joyfully and for that I m very sick" ... Beth maibe you know how to spell but I recomend you learn how to read... Or consult a DOctor... When did I ever said that? or assumed that? What in hell are you talking about?
Finally let me repeat my challange Beth.... How agin do we "win" Beth? If the Shiite is the product of our "Victory" how is that a victory Beth... Do you even know what I am talking about dear? No war is perfect you said... No and this one specially is not... In fact is so imperfect that we can't win even if we win .. How is that for imprefect?
Like I said Beth... You don't know how to swim and think yo
gil, all I had to read was that first line. the Dems ONLY decided they made a "mistake" after the polls told them too.
My god, how blind are you?
One other thing.... WE do not send our troops back gil, THEY choose to re-enlist and go back.
Stop acting like these brave men and women are children, they are old enough to make their decisions and they are asking NOTHING of you, they are not asking YOU to speak for them, they are not asking YOU to bring them anywhere like they are 2 years old, the ONLY thing they have publicly asked people like you for, gil, is SUPPORT and I am glad they ask nothing else from you because the one simple thing they have asked for, YOU WON'T GIVE THEM.
Way to support the troops gil, IGNORE everything THEY want, and insist YOU know what is best for THEM and treat them like they haven't got a voice and like thier eyewitness accounts of the conditions on the ground are irrelevant.
Yes, with 'friends" like you, we see why our troops don't need enemies.
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gil ~ yes, in fact President Bush has stated in speeches that this will take a long time: for one example:
http://www.time.com/time/
columni...,176290,00.html
Also, in regard to your question on how we win, you might also go to this link for the "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq", set up in 2003 and updated in 2005:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
infocu...gy_nov2005.html
Saying we've lost before the mission is even half started is not a way to win, unless your a Democrat and have everything invested in losing this war, like seats in Congress and a chance at the presidency.
You might also check out the news and find the articles that are reporting the successes that are happening right now.
Yes, mistakes were made, as in every war that has been fought, but I'm for rooting for the home team. I don't stop cheering my team on and give up on them just because the coach made some bad calls. I may yell at the coach but I continue to support the team. And telling them they have lost before the games over is not supporting the team.
Especially when the stakes are this high.
Well said, Spree. As for you gil, picturing you as you're writing your filth is absolutely hilarious--what comes across is a wild-eyed moron with his tongue hanging out, drooling and slavering while making absolutely no sense in your delusional world. Truly comical--who writes your material, David Letterman?
You betcha I'm a lot better educated than you in several areas--critical thinking, rational debate, research, God, country and family--oh, and my wall of medals and trophies belies your fantasy I can't swim (I participated in Montreal 1976 at 15, although I didn't win anything) and was quite a proficient water polo player on a men's team.
You see, my parents, horrid Republicans that they were, saw the educational wasteland of the public school system and made sure I had one of those exclusive parochial school educations where the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic were taught, not divergent multi-culturalism, homosexual agendas, troop hating, you know, the typical liberal public school education you are so obviously a product of. My exclusive education also taught me you may disagree with a person and his or her policies but to buy into blind hatred of something and thereby endanger an entire country through close-mindedness was absolutely wrong; further to disrespect those who support our freedoms is nothing short of treason and the person spewing same is a traitor. So you have branded yourself in your blind BDS.
I'm sure you understand "disrespect"--your ebonics are showing.
We, I and those such as myself (you know, patriots), have shown you cretins more than once exactly how VICTORY will be achieved. You have steadfastly refused to listen--why should I waste my breath repeating the same things over to someone who amounts to nothing more than a wall--perhaps the same wall you should be lined up against and shot for your treason?
You have yet to show any guts and answer MY challenges and until you can and do, with some semblance of coherence, I have no further use for you. Go chase your tail some more until you're too dizzy and fall into your troll corner.
God Beth, you crack me up.... HOOOOOOOOOOWAHHHH!!!
Yankeemom, I appreciate your imput here more than I can say, but expecting gil, or anyone else that suffers from Bush Derangement syndrome to actually see through their own blindness is a waste of time.
Your comment wasn't a waste though because those URLS need to be seen because they show the lies from the left for what they are when they claim anyone said this war on terror would be a cakewalk.
Reconstruction of a country is time consuming and our OWN reconstruction has been called "the bloddiest time in our history", but Dems seem to think Iraqi's should be able to accomplish what we could not in record time.
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No KIDDING Spree...they've suffered under CENTURIES of tyranny and civil division and these clowns think reconstruction can be accomplished in a nanosecond??? Truly, what idiots they are--not only do they suffer from BDS, but also, apparently, rampant ADHD.
Yankeemom, we've had the discussion regarding your daughter, just as Snooper's son is also serving--you also know what I'm facing in less than 3 years with my own son. And yet, I have nothing but total admiration and gratitude for the decisions your daughter, Snooper's son and all the sons, daughters, husbands, wives, et.al, have made to protect ME and MY family with their very lives if need be. Thank you from the bottom of my ever thankful heart.
Answer to Spree.
"We don't send our troops back ... They chose to re-enlist"
Excuse me? You are actually telling me that troops in their third or fourth tour of duty actually would like to be in Iraq patrolling the same street for the hundred time than being with their families?
Are you guys that delusional ? Where do you people live ??? The troops re-enlist... My friend No one in his / her right mind would rather be in Iraq than at home.... And every time you heroes of the key boards say that we are defeatist because we care for our troops being in harms way, you just make me sick to the stomach.
Every time your policies ask for the same "adults that re-enlist" to be send back it is you and people like you that show your "support" by telling them in so many words " Go back and defend our policies, and if the policies do not work then go back again, and again, and again until you are killed or our policies succeed because we are too arrogant to concede we were wrong"... But hey!! You are the soldiers and we support you because we fly little flags in our trucks you see!!
Is funny the way you guys think. You send them to war and keep them there as the years go by and then pretend that the soldiers want to be there!!!
I can see the soldiers now... "Man there is nothing like the smell of an IED in the morning what a rush!!! This is living !!!.... People back at home with their families and normal lives don't know what they are missing.... Please keep me here forever I don't ever want to be back at home with my wife and kids who needs that".
OH and the Iraqi politicians that are supposed to .... you know .. like come together and behave like the Democracy they are supposed to have? OH we Americans just need to be understanding.. You see it takes time our Revolution took time, and hell we have our re-enlisted men that don't complain so let's not bother the men!! Let's instead put pressure in the Democrats to support our troops by sending them back with no plan, or the latest plan that will not work... But not ever bother the Iraqi Government to get their act together.... No Sir!!
Hey Beth and Spree are you by any chance from Iraq? Reason I ask is because you ask more from our soldiers than from the Iraqi Government. And in our country Democracy did take a long time to get hold, but then again I don't remember the soldiers of any country staying for years to help us get it or do you?
Again, My challenge to tell me how we win is still un-answered... I wander why?
Spree ~ I like to back up my statements with the resource, unlike other *ahem* commenters we all know. I do not take anyone's words at face value and I don't expect others to take mine as well, esp on the internet. ;o)
Giving up on the Afghanistanis and Iraqis just because they have lived a certain way for a long time, is like giving up on the folks who started using fire because others had been without it since time began. Those others saw how good fire was and they got over there fear and it caught on.
Our founding fathers jumped off a very high cliff with the great experiment that is this Republic - it took quite a few years and a long dreadful war, and there were dissenters, but they didn't turn tail and head for home because it wasn't perfect or done up all pretty with a bow on top in a couple of years.
And thank god for that!
gil, try doing a little RESEARCH cause you are ignoring the FACTS, which I know thse are pesky little things for you but they are out there.
* Every one of the Army's 10 divisions — its key combat organizations — has exceeded its re-enlistment goal for the year to date. Those with the most intense experience in Iraq have the best rates. The 1st Cavalry Division is at 136 percent of its target, the 3rd Infantry Division at 117 percent.
Among separate combat brigades, the figures are even more startling, with the 2nd Brigade of the 2nd Infantry Division at 178 percent of its goal and the 3rd Brigade of the 4th Mech right behind at 174 percent of its re-enlistment target.
This is unprecedented in wartime. Even in World War II, we needed the draft. Where are the headlines?
* What about first-time enlistment rates, since that was the issue last spring? The Army is running at 108 percent of its needs. Guess not every young American despises his or her country and our president.
* The Army Reserve is a tougher sell, given that it takes men and women away from their families and careers on short notice. Well, Reserve recruitment stands at 102 percent of requirements.
* And then there's the Army National Guard. We've been told for two years that the Guard was in free-fall. Really? Guard recruitment and retention comes out to 106 percent of its requirements as of June 30.
Guess we have to face it: Patriotism is alive and well. Soldiers believe in the Army, and they believe in their missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. They love their comrades, too. And yes, the word is "love." They would die for the man or woman serving beside them. They're risking their lives to save a broken state, to give tens of millions of human beings a chance at decent lives, to do the grim work that no one else in the world is willing to do.
Their reward? The Cindy Sheehan Extravaganza. Predictions of disaster. The depiction of Michael Moore as a hero and our soldiers as dupes. And a ceaseless attempt to convince the American people that there's no hope in Iraq.
The ugly truth is that much of the media only cares about our soldiers when they're dead or crippled. That's a story.
As you read this, 500,000 soldiers are on active duty because they chose to serve their country. Additionally, hundreds of thousands of Reservists and Guard members have been called into uniform. And they're all behaving as true soldiers do: Running toward the sound of the guns, not away from them.
We should be humbled by their choices, honored by their sacrifices, and proud of what they're fighting to achieve. Instead of the jerk's refrain "Support our troops, bring them home," the line should run "Support our troops, make their home worthy of them."
Our young men and women in uniform — in every service — deserve far better than we've given them.
Try actually using facts instead of what you "want" the facts to be gil and you wont sound so ignorant.
We "win" gil, when the Iraqi's are able to defend and sustain themselves.
That has been answered time and time again, why not try to answer the challenge that Beth has issued to you instead of tying to "distract" with lies about the re enlisment rates.
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http://www.defenselink.mil/
relea...releaseid=10283
http://www.military.com/
features...,118112,00.html
Facts are not subjective gil, so try using them instead of the talking points you are told to spew.
Added more up to date re-enlistment numbers.
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Edited By Siteowner
Beth.
I am a clown for assuming that re-construction can be acomplished in a nano second? You know Beth in my world the clowns are the ignorant, arrogant fools that pretend that they can change centuries of hatred in a reasonable amount of time.
A long, long time ago Beth, General Sun Tzu one of the greatest military geniouses in history had this words for your Republican "plan"
" When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men weapon's will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strenght and again if the campaign is protracted the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now when your ardor is damped, your weapons dulled, your strenght exhausted, and your treasure spent other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no men however wise, will be able to avert the consecuences that most ensue. Thus, tough we have heard of stupid haste in starting a war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays in ending it. For at the end of this long war even if you win you loose.
Wise words from a wise man Beth... You should read his book is required reading for a lot of Military Academies around the world.
Answer to Spree.
Fact are facts spree... Maibe you can tell me what facts presented by me are incorrect?
And while you are at it maibe you can at last answer my question: How do you "win" in a Shiite dominated Iraq allied to Iran?
Thats easy gil... all one has to do is look at your last comments.... Your comments about re-enlistment has been debunked by the FACTS and the numbers which are all ABOVE 100%.
Obviously, you once again, commented before looking over the url and the actual truth.
Can't handle the truth?
I already did answer you gil, you just didn't like the answer.
Petraeus has implemented his new strategy, it is working, and if you are not capable of reading the answers already given to you then that is not MY problem, it is yours.
Now try answering BETH instead of ignoring the facts you cannot debate.
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Answer to Spree
"We win when the Iraqie's are able to defend and sustain themselves".
You know Spree I tought you were smarter than to give me a talking point litteraly.
Let me repeat the question slowly. HOW DO WE WIN IF THE SHIITE TAKE CONTROL OF IRAQ???? THE SHIITE, SPREE WILL ALLY THEMSELVES TO IRAN.... SO HOW DO WE WIN ???
DID YOU GET IT ??? Or do I need get an automatic pre-recorded entry here?
Told ya already, you must be slow if you cannot understand english.
You will get further answers when and IF you have the ability to read and answer Beths questions to you.
No ignoring questions you cannot answer gil, YOU started this, you be a man now and try to comprehend her questions and answer them, and pleaase make sure you give URLS to back up your talking points or you will be ignored.
Time for blind rants from you to be challenged and until you meet the challenge, you are not worth more time.
Here is my latest for you to choke on gil.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....america-
to.html
Enjoy and have a nice day.
We have all answered your ridiculous questions and until you start answering ours in a comprehensive way, you will be treated like the child you are acting like.... IGNORED.
Spree, I gave him the information on the sheiks as well. It's simply a fact they don't like so they ignore it.
He is a child--see him standing there with his face all red, his hair sticking out in all directions, stomping his little foot while the tears roll down his face and he screams incoherently? He's not getting his way, poor baby. And he's being beat up on by women! Shudder, horrors..I suppose he'll throw himself on the floor next and start thrashing his arms and legs!
Silly little child trying to play with the grown ups. Children are to be seen and not heard (so the saying goes) and in this case, for good reason. Trouble is, liberal mommy and daddy didn't want to damage his fragile ego (I know, an oxymoron with "fake", metrosexual men) so he's never been subjected to irrefutable facts he doesn't like. It's always been tailored to fit what he wants to hear.
Silly little child.
If I didn't like men SOOOOOOO much Beth, I would marry you!!!!
But you have just said something I often say, liberals are like children, it is up to the "adults" to keep em safe and handle the difficult stuff, and like children, they often piss and moan, throw fits and have temper tantrums because they do not understand the methods we use to "take care of them".
It is like a child saying, "I HATE MOMMY" because mommy won't let him go play in the rain while he is sick.
You see my point?
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Interesting...one of my comments didn't post.
So I'll try again.
I have read many military books, often passed on by my cousin. You know my cousin I'm sure, gil--Brig. Gen. (Ret) Amos Jordan, professor at Georgetown and one of the undersecretaries of state and member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. That cousin. The one who would roast you and those like you over a fire for your anti-Americanism. What I didn't read in books, I learned at his knee.
One thing foremost in academy reading is the fact that Tzu is NOT the hero you make him out to be--his reading is required to acquaint the cadets with psychological propaganda spewed by the enemy designed to demoralize them--to show them the male version of Tokyo Rose. Not for any wisdom the man thought he was spewing. Psychological propaganda designed to weaken us--how to recognize, confront and ignore it.
Statistically we shouldn't have won against the British due to our lack of numbers. It didn't stop us, a people who wanted to be free of oppression. You, however, depend on polls and statistics rather than what is in the hearts of the Iraqi people.
And I guess you don't have time to read the facts regarding the sheiks banding together to help the IRAQIS fight the insurgents. There's the answer to your question. Unfortunately, it doesn't fit into your "Rosie" colored world filled with purple skies and pink clouds.
I'll tell you why you haven't answered my challenges. You can't. Completely unable to. Because those challenges are based on facts and you can't stand facts, much less logic.
And yes, you are a clown. Trying to divert with the travel-worn excuses of defeat, incapable of handling anything good so you ignore it. Careful now, your makeup is smearing from your tears.
LOL Spree....I love men way tooooooooo much for my own good, too!
You are absolutely spot on with your analogy. These children certainly have no concept of doing things to protect, even when it hurts--brings to mind when I had my children vaccinated through their lives...and having to hold them while that needle jabbed them. Mommy let them be hurt! And it tugged at my heartstrings to where I was in tears. But I had to let them be hurt so they wouldn't die of horrible diseases.
Is there a vaccination for BDS and defeatism out there? Where do we get it and how do we round them up for the shot clinic?
Beth.
Dear like I said the loosers here so far is your kind.
You lost Congress did you not?
Bush sits today as one of the worst presidents in history. Polls don't lie dear.
70% of Americans believe the war is going badly.
67% of Americans want to end the war.
Every poll comes out with Iraq beeing a big problem for the Republican party and will cause them to loose big in 08.
You see Beth at the end of the day you guys are the real loosers for your ideas Iraq in particular will not ever be the victory you claim it to be. The war in the end will be finished by an exhausted country while you loosers continue to waste saliva and insults in rage at the defeatists that did not let you win.
Problem with you Beth is that you and the Republicans are all talk and no results. You think you fool any one with your "we are just getting started in Iraq" thing, or the "nano- second" B.S. ? Please Lady !!! Grow up that's why your party lost in 06 and will loose even more in 08. NO ONE BUYS YOUR BULL ANY MORE OTHER THAN YOU AND YOUR KIND 30% OF POLITICAL MANIACS.
Since this is a Democracy Beth you loose, and we "defeatists" get to tell you loosers to go fly a kite. One way or another the war ends after 08 Beth mark my words. What can I say, we defeatists get to end a war you only won in the saliva industrial contest.
And Beth... Again so that you understand ; A person is "defeated" is he/she partisipates in a decision, a game, or in general comits to defend something. I and millions like me NEVER agreed to your idiotic policies in the Middle East so I don't see how can I be "defeated" or be a "defeatist" No dear the only one defeated is you, your kind, and the poor Iraqies that will suffer the consecuences of your invasion for generations to come. Your kind Beth, are the ones that invested in this idea that went wrong not me. So as defeated people go Beth... Look at yourself in the mirror darling.
Me... I am like millions of Americans, I see you with amusement and feel sorrow for the pain you caused to my country.
Spree.
First you hide behind the troops and now you hide behind Beth's non existent "questions".
Hey "man" speacking of manhood can you show yours and answer my question or not?
Here it goes again.
If we win in Iraq the Shiite will take absolute control of the "Democracy". The Shiite leaders al Sadr and Al Sistani not to mention al Malaki are Iranian surrogates. They will be forced by the Shiite people to ally themselves to Iran.... Our worst enemy.
SO how do we win even if by your definition "We win when the Iraqi's are able to defend and sustain themselves" the Shiite turn to Iran?
" we win when the Iraqi's are able to defend and sustain themselves and turn to Iran???? That's the follow up consecuence of the Iraqi people beeing able to deside for themselves but you forgot that inconvinient part did you not?
gil, as anyone that is reading this comment section will see clearly, YOU are the one hiding.
Answer her questions or quit commenting because pretending you didn't see them when all you have to do is LOOK, is really a pathetic attempt at distraction.
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OMG, gil actually called us a DEMOCRACY???????
GIL, my god, did you even GO TO SCHOOL????
America is NOT a democracy, it is and has always been a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.
If you cannot even get THAT right, how on earth do you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously.
I cannot belive you actually called this a democracy!!!!
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....-
democracy.html
Try learning a little history gil, the links are at that post... the founding fathers NEVER tried to make America a democracy, they DELIBERATELY created a Constitutional Republic.
OMG, how funny!!!!!!!!!
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Oh goody..reverting back to talking points from the heads at MoveOn.org!
Every single one of your allegations has been slapped down, HARD, with facts and proof so you revert to polls. What a wimp! You amuse me beyond words as I see you flailing in that swamp where you were infected with your BDS!
You are a coward who thinks skewed polls, worded in a way guaranteed to give you the answers you so desparately want to hear, are going to impress ME? Fact is, you don't impress me--neither do the rest of you cowards. And, at the end of the day, that is all you truly are. It would be worth the price of admission to sit and watch a 2 hour movie of every single last one of you cowards in shock when the silent majority turns out in 08 and smacks you all in the chops!
Do you honestly think the American public is happy with the way your beloved democrats have turned congress into the circus it is today? Do you honestly think a difference of only 100,000 votes was a major win for you? Do you honestly think the majority of TRUE Americans want to see the images from the 60's repeated with your so-called peace protests in which you support Nazi-ism, Communism, Fascism, Socialism, burning troops in effigy and supporting those who slice off innocents heads for sport and disagreement (think Nick Berg if your brain cells aren't too fried from the drugs you're obviously on)? And are you so filled with overconfidence and self importance you KNOW you're going to win in 08 after the democrats have made a complete mockery of this country? Where'd you get your crystal ball--I'd love to have one myself.
And, once again, if you had paid attention in school, not been quite so lazy or infected with liberalism, you would know we are actually a republic not a democracy.
You are so sad--you still haven't answered even one of my challenges, just reverted to talking points. Glad you're comfortable in your delusional world. But don't get too comfortable. 08 is still a long time away and a lot can happen in that time.
Now, back to your dungeon with you and your dragonmasters. I'm sure they believe your bile. In the meantime, freedom of speech is not your exclusive domain--it means freedom for all, and that also means not having to listen to your freedom of speech and turning you off, tuning your whining filth out. And, when you burn your next flag? Make sure you wrap yourself in it first.
OKAY , History lesson for gil, everyone already knows this so please bear with me while teaching gil what he SHOULD have learned in gradeschool:
The United States of America is one of the oldest constitutional republics in the world.
The fact that a constitution exists that limits the government's power, makes the state constitutional. That the heads of state and other officials are chosen by election, rather than inheriting their positions, and that their decisions are subject to judicial review makes a state republican.
The constitutional republic with its limitations on popular government is clearly involved in the Constitution, as seen in the election of the President, the election of the Senate and the appointment of the Supreme Court." That is, the ability of the people to choose officials in government is checked by not allowing them to elect Supreme Court justices. A republic, as distinguished from a democracy, the people are not only checked in choosing officials but also in making laws.
A Bill of Rights exists in the U.S. Constitution which protects certain individual rights. The individual rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights cannot be voted away by the majority of citizens if they wished to oppress a minority who does not agree the restrictions on liberty that they wish to impose. To eliminate these rights would require government officials overcoming constitutional checks as well as a two-thirds majority vote of Congress and ratification by three-fourths of the States in order to amend the Constitution.
John Adams defined a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men.
In historical usages and especially when considering the works of the Founding Fathers of the United States, the word "democracy" refers solely to direct democracy, while a representative democracy where representatives of the people are elected and whose power to govern is limited by laws enshrined in a constitution is referred to as a constitutional republic.
Our founding fathers understood that the "majority" is not always right and could and often does allow their passions to overcome their common sense, so they built in protections with the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
http://
www.stopthenorthamericanu...tDemocracy.html
Maybe after you learn the meaning of the words you spew forth gil, you will understand how your left leaning sites have misled you on more than one count. I will not hold my breath though because I am not sure you will understand some of the words used.
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Excellent lesson, Spree! Ah, the wonders of liberalism at work in our schools!
Beth.
First of all I am quoting Sun Tzu as a wise man and a Military genious. That does not makes him a hero just a good General. As for my statement "One of the greatest military geniouses in history" if you read military books, then lady you know that HE IS regarded by many military historians as such.... Your opinion is your opinion, and you lady frankly are no military historian. Therefore I could care less how you interpret Sun Tzu words... Some how I fail to see where is the " Pshychological propaganda spewed by the enemy to show them the male version of the Tokio rose".What is incorrect in Sun Tzu saying that a long war taxes the treasure of the state, or dulls the men spirit to fight, or opens opportunities for other chiftains to exploit our weak points exposed by a quagmire " ? His words are there forever to be appreciated by those with the brains to use his wisdom... Take it or live it. Male version of the Tokio Rose !!... Dear God lady you do live in the twilight zone.
So now (of course) Gen. Sun Tzu is also a clown . You know Beth, I see the trend here you are smarter than Sun Tzu, Gen. Shenseky, Gen, Casey, Gen, Abizaid, etc, etc.
Only, not you or Bush, or a single loud mouth Republican can produce even one day of peace in Iraq after four years.... Dear when you call a clown a clown is because he is dressed as a clown not because you say so. SO far the ones that went to the dressing room to get their costumes were you and the Republicans. After all this is your policy not Sun Tzu's or mine. The poor old General was only trying to give you clowns some basic common sence... Or what is it that is so extraordinary Lady.... OH MY GOD!!! What a revelation "Long wars are not good because they drain you of trasure, strenght, and commitment"
That makes sense and rings true.... Unless of course you are a clown right Beth?
Thanks Beth, it amazes me how many people are so brainwashed they spew the "democracy" party line without even knowing that we have NEVER been a democracy... it actually goes to show how "well educated" these people are, doesn't it?
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Beth.
"Excellent lesson Spree"
Please lecture me (again) in answering my question about how you win... After all you have been TALKING about winning for four years Beth... OH and in your eyes we are getting started, and yes Bush said this was going to be a long war and you give me web sites that Bush saying that way after he started the war and when it was OBVIOUS to even a two year old that the war was going to last longer than they tought.
Gen. Shenseky wanted 250,000 troops PRECISELY because he never bought the quick war that was put forward at the get go. Last I checked member after member of the administration declared that the lenght of the war was to last months or at most maibe a year... Did they not worked for Bush.. Was this war not going to be paid by Iraq's oil? Do you Beth and SPree have selective Amnesia?
Your "lessons" Beth go like this;
"Bush said the war was going to last a long time/// Yes, in 2004 when even my dog knew that.... See Gil? He did say it!! You are a clown!!! You know Beth you need to get a hold of yourself and stop pretending that we are all idiots here.
You know Beth, I think you people just don't have the intellectual honesty to axcept even what was said, and when it was said. No it turns out that some how before the war started we Americans got a speach from Bush stating that " THis war we are about to embark will last possibly decades, will cost possibly a trillion Dollars, will tax our Army to the limit and will make the prospect of a Regional war ever more real.... But since Sadam has WMD's and we don't have a choice.
Research that Spree will you? I'll Like you to tell me where the speach is .
Men what lessons you people are giving me I am impressed.
Interesting gil how you go on and on about Tzu--who was used extensively by Stalin and Mao. Careful, your anti-Americanism is showing!
As if there were any doubt to this ancient warrior's use in today's world, not the era of 544BC, you have just shown how damaging his teachings truly are.
And, while you're spewing your nonsense, why don't you address the issue of why it's taught in the academies? Could it be, oh, FEAR on your part and the fact that you DON'T KNOW MORE THAN THE TEACHERS, undersecretaries or joint chiefs?
You only address the issue of how brilliant he allegedly was. Well, when it comes to oppression, I suppose he was effective--just ask your heros, Stalin and Mao.
No, I'm no military historian--nor have I ever claimed to be. My cousin, however, IS, and far more capable than you in knowing the true facts.
What you fail to accept is we have fought long wars and our committment, rather than dimishing, has only set our jaws and made us more determined. That is one thing that makes America different from the rest of the world, something that made this underdog nation (at the outset) a force to contend with. We don't give up, we don't lose our nerve, we DO accomplish the mission (when we're not undercut by cowards and white flaggers), and we determine nothing less than victory is the end game, regardless of how long it takes us.
That concept is completely foreign to you and all you lily-livered chickens wallowing in your yellow pools of cowardice.
The only reason we have ever left before a war was won was because the fainthearted losers in congress cut off funding--not because we ever lost a battle. And they're trying it again.
Now, are you ever going to grow a set and answer the many questions posed to you or are you going to continue to scurry around in your basement and try to hide from the light being shone upon you?
I told ya gil, lets say it a little slower for you... ANSWER. stop. BETH's. stop. QUESTIONS. stop. THEN. stop. YOU. stop. CAN. stop. PLAY. stop.
Clear enough?
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Beth, he is annoyed that the liberal game of distort and distract isn't working here and we are demanding he either answer the MULTIPLE questions posed to him (since we answered many of his after he ignored all yours) or be ignored.
One can only assume that he CANNOT answer your questons and that is why he keeps trying to ask more that have nothing to do with the original post anyway.
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Have you noticed Spree, he can't even answer the ones about the silent majority and does he and his ilk really think true Americans are going to continue to give his party the majority after they've turned congress into a circus, complete with their own retinue of clowns? He's so sure of his cracked crystal ball, but can't answer even the simple questions...dance and hide and scurry and run. Just like they want the TRUE patriots to do!
They do the same thing over at MIT central...and it sends them into howling rages, completely, barking mad. Yet for some reason, they call this intelligent discourse. They need a new dictionary!
Spree.
"We have never been a Democracy"
OK. It's the let's all go nuts hour folks.... Free tickets are at the door. I am not even going to honor this "remark" with an answer.
On this hour, Beth and Spree will present to you the "victory" in Iraq that will have the Shiite dominate Iraq, ally themselves to Iran and control the Middle East and the oil reserves. All this while Iran gets a nuclear bomb in front of the nose of the "decider", that decided to pre-empt in Iraq what he know has "decided" NOT to pre-empt in Iran. Confused? That is just because you have not heard enough about Spree and Beth's ideas here.
You see according to our heroic figures, and supporters of the troops Beth and Spree; We have to liberate Iraq to make them free to turn to Iran and threaten us with nuclear weapons and in doing that we win !!! But Beth here is worried about my spelling not the nuclear weapons that Iran will get (Remember Sun Tzu 's words Beth) Other Chieftains will take advantage of your weakness?
So are you guys now really confused? NOw comes the clincher.... Any one that calls on this contradictoy incoherent "policy" madness.... Is called a defeatist and a non supporter of the troops!!!!
Hell the Tokio Rose would have been proud with these guys spin, and Sun Tzu never ever immagined there could be people that would present such idiotic spin as a "Policy".
And, once again you dodge and dance around all questions asked of you, while continuing to quote an alleged military genius used by Stalin and Mao to oppress billions of people.
I know Beth, isn't it amazing what they consider intelligent? They cannot even get the information they should have learned in gradeschool correct and yet they think we should take them seriously...
If it wasn't SOOO sad and if it didn't say so little about our educational system that people can graduate (assuming here that he did) without knowing the basics of what principles our country was founded on.
I would also lean towards the implication that until we told him, he probably never even heard of Constitutional Republic.
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Oh I wouldn't lean on it, Spree, I'd jump up and down on it! And, you're right--assuming he graduated. It doesn't sound like he did, although he seems to have the capacity to memorize talking points and to have learned how to dodge hard questions, while supporting Stalinist Russia and Communist China--and yet we're supposed to believe he has a patriotic bone in his body!
Keep spinning lil gil, it is a GREAT example of everything we have been saying here the whole time.
The learnings of those liberal websites have really made lil gil look foolish huh Beth?
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Him and all the other idiots out there. Thinks he can play with educated grown ups that actually take the time to research their stands on things so we can speak intelligently on real issues.
And he doesn't seem to have ever heard or learned about the indomitable American spirit!
Had it been up to him and his ilk, there'd still be no settled land west of the Mississippi because it would have been too hard to homestead and pioneer.
The yellow-swamp crowd never learned that spirit of true Americanism, fighting towards new horizons and helping the little guy along--they've obviously never learned the lesson of you can only move forward as fast as your slowest member, something TRUE AMERICANS learned a long time ago, in settlement and in war,
Beth.
A question about the silent majority?.... Hey Beth how do you know what they say if they are silent?
You guys want to avoid questions by saying that I don't answer yours?
Are you still in Kinder garden? The way I see it Beth... You answer the question about Iraq and the Shiite because you know tha answer... Or you don't ... All the rest of "I don't answer if you don't answer" is idiotic little games that you people play when you simply don't have an answer.
Bottom line Beth and Spree again.... You loosers are the ones with the "win" that never came. The rest os us not-so silent majority are telling you in no uncertain terms 'PULL UP OR SHUT UP " Come 08 let's see how far you go with your "victory" thing down the road some day, some how.
As for my "liberal game not working here" Please people you are beginners with no answer just talking points... I asked you something not covered in the talking points and you run to the childish "I will not answer your question because you don't answer ours"
So much for you "Lessons" people.
So answer the questions and quit dodging them like the dark loving cockroach you are. We have answered your questions ad nauseum--you simply don't like the answers and aren't man enough to admit it.
Grow a set, dude--grow a set.
Ok, Beth, in lil gil's defense, I have to say this:
How can he grow a set when you have CUT THEM OFF?
(Throw that knife away, I will buy you a new one, blood is getting everywhere!!!!)
More popcorn?
Please,Spree--extra butter? How about you get the popcorn, I'll grab the sodas?
You're gonna take away my favorite knife? LOL! Okay, here it is--hopefully, the new one is MUCH sharper!
Been watching this attempt to debate the FACTS with the uneducated. Like Beth and Spree, I also tend to disregard people who can't even articulate a coherent argument, using correct grammar and spelling 
I also read independantly, and yes, I AM in a foreign country Gil. From where I sit, and all I have learned, it is the likes of you and your pal Reid, who are determined to see the US and the Coalition partners cut and run from Iraq. You keep asking what is victory? I suggest you ask the millions of Iraqis who now live in a peace fought for by the troops. On a daily basis I find stories, with direct Iraqi quotes btw, of how life is more peaceful now. I hear, again on a daily basis, of many areas of Iraq, where families now are able to focus on raising their kids, sending them to school (re-opened and equipped oftentimes by us), and if they need medical attetnion? Why, they go to one of the hospitals they have now up and running (again re-opened and equipped by us). And yes, I read daily of Iraqi construction crews eager and willing to rebuild their own country, helped along by OUR troops. I read just a few weeks back of the many miles of roads that are now in fine shape across Iraq, courtesy of our troops providing equipment, expertise and, if and when needed, protection from the small percentage of terrorists, who would loosen their grasp on freedom. I also read of many towns who have elected their own "city councils", and who now control their own affairs.
But you can't possibly know this, because you choose to swallow the msm and dem line. Oh and by the way? To adapt the analogy of silly children? Having worked with children for a loooooong time, I can tell you that the reason the terrorists are killing more of their OWN? They know we are winning, and they can't stand it, so killing their own is their way of saying "we'll show you". But the Iraqis are refusing to be intimidated and killed into submission ever again. It is well documented that many of the tribal leaders (not to mention the 'regular' Iraqis - I hate to call them regular since to me their bravery and tenacity is waaaay beyond regular....however...)are now aligning themselves firmly with the coalition troops. Ya think they know something Reid and his sorry bunch don't know? Maybe to them, the prospect of losing and turning back the clock to the pre-Coalition days, has far harsher consequences to them than for Reid and those of you who would just abandon them.
Another 'kid' analogy. I wonder if - as you watch a very young child learn to walk, you would also walk away from them as they get up on their wobbly legs and learn to take their first steps on their own? I suggest to you - altho I dont know why I waste my breath - that if we leave Iraq before they have stood on their own, We - and not just the Iraqis - will pay a heavy price. One that I am SURE you would not be willing to pay. The days of being able to sneer that what happens in
Honestly Spree--can you see him trying to negotiate with the Apaches about how he's really not associated with the covered wagon he's travelling in and spare his life because he's such a good liberal? Just like he plans to do with the islamofascists if these guys follow Reid and Pelosi in the surrender game? Laughable, really!
Way to go brat! Well said--thank you!
Actually lil gil isn't alone, only 83% of the people that took the "Is America a Democracy poll" actually got the answer right.
For the record, that isn't opinion, for anyone that went to school and took history, the FACT that America was founded as, has always been and always will be a constitutional Republic was taught IN school.
Which really makes me wonder how people DO graduate without understanding the classes they were taught.
That brings up a whole other set of issues about our educational system.
But THAT I will save for another post, which I now have all these comments from gil to use IN that post.
It is one reason I allow trolls to comment here, they make EXCELLENT examples that I use often in my future posts.
Feel free to use gil as an example in YOUR posts too Beth!!!!!
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Beth.
The indomitable American spirit is the one telling you Beth that WE DON'T FOLLOW IDIOTS. Get it? That is why today 70% of the idomitable Americans are telling you to stop or be fired GET IT? ...... You did not get it after 06 right? .... I promise you this, come November of 08 the indomitable American spirit Beth will be spelled loud and clear for you and Spree.
By 08 this war would have been going on for 6 years.... You don't win with an indomitable spirit Beth you win with a plan and you morons never had one. You forgot another thing that good old Sun Tzu said .... If you go into a long war make sure you have the support of the people. You Republicnas think you can win insulting 70% of Americans ? Resentment, and contempt is what you people have come to inspire. In loosing the people you should blame only yourselves ... But you don't have any shame so you just blame the Democrats, the Liberals, the "defeatists", the media, the terrorists, the French..
Dear God what a bunch of cowards you people are!!!
Thanks, Spree--I most definitely will...trying to formulate one now on the swamp fever infecting our schools and he is such a great example!
Welp, I see the peanut gallery is still rampaging today.
WOW brat, nicely said and great points.
We have been so busy laughing and playing with trolls that we forgot to make those points.
Welcome to Wake up America and thank you for commenting.
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Hi Hawk--yes, we have a true peanut who so far has danced around every single question posed to him and exposed his Stalinistic and Communistic leanings, but states he's a true American--and that 100,000 votes should be enough to slap us Patriots into surrender and submission or we'll be sorry in 08--you know, a true swamp dweller!
Oh yeah, I forgot...we're also cowards because we support, 1000% OUR HEROES IN ACTION who protect us from the actions of idiots like him!
This here is proof positive that the Leftinistra trolls are losing their ground and losing it quickly!!
reid (I refuse to capitalize ITS name) has so stepped into it and has so exposed how he and the rest of the moron Leftinistra troll mongers truly feel towards our Constitution, National Security and most of all towards our troops that are fighting for the Leftinistra rights to be as dumb as they can get without fear of being beheaded.
Freedom of Speech has its price and consequences. Surely there is a move to prosecute these trolls for subversion, sedition and treason. They certainly meet the criteria, n'est pas?
yankeemom...YOU GO GIRL!!
Hey Snooper! Good to see you here!
Miss Beth...another YOU GO GIRL!!
gil...loser maximus...LOL!!!!
go find the coward reid and console it...also scrape the poo from between its toes...LOL!!!
NOW NOW, DO NOT SPAM MY SITE. bye bye.
Edited By Siteowner
gil, eh Beth? Isn't this the same gil who thinks we're a democracy and not a republic? Peanut butter would be better description here, methinks.
Yes they do Snooper and that link to Old Crotchedy Bastards site shows that he and others fully intend to sue Reid in a civil suit... THAT will be great.
http://crotchetyoldbastard.com/
b...nator_reid.html
Found there at that link!!!
Bet that guy already has a dozen lawyers that are offering to take the case pro-bono.
Spree-THANK YOU for letting us take on this swamp dwelling troll! NONE of our troops should EVER be subjected to this nonsense, yet they fight for the rights of everyone, not just a select few. I'd still like to see them all ensconced on their own island, "Survivor" style and time them to see how long it takes them to call the REAL Patriots in to save them from themselves!
Some folks get our form of government all wanker-jawed.
I have a post at my blog that explains it in layman's terms:
http://takeourcountryback.townha...d7-
b167626a3178
http://takeourcountryback.townha...de-
594bbaa037b1
Seeing that my degree is in American Studies and American Government I do believe that I have a firm grasp as to what we were founded on and how the socialist left AND right has morphed it into what it is today...on the verge of civil war.
Kind of scary actually. We haven't been this politically split since 1861 and we all know what happened there, yes?
So would I, it would make a very popular show Beth. No thanks needed but you are welcome.
It is better WE fight here for our troops so they do not have to listen to the nonsense.
Never again will our troops be degraded without us POUNDING those that degrade and ignore their words.
NEVER AGAIN.
SPOT ON HAWK!!
GREAT posts Snooper, mind if I use parts of them, linking trackbacking and credit given to you of course?
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Putting them on an island would be fun to watch. Talk about eating their own!
Hey Spree.
We are a Democracy stop trying to pretend you are some how"getting me" will you? We are a Constitutional Republic... So we are not a Democracy Spree? Funny the extent you people go delusional.... Bush constantly saying "We are the greatest Democracy in the world" and "We need to export our Democracy" So indeed you can put Bush in the 83% of the people that does not get it.. But on this one I have to defend the President... The poor man has trouble pronouncing Democracy correctly so to ask him to now change to "Constitutional Republic" is asking for too much.... By the time you know Bush is goingto be saying Constiputional Democracy Republic... Or wherever. And the Bushism books will go wild... That's not to good for our Democracy you know.... God knows our "President" is discredited enough.
I don't own the ideas!! Use whatever you see that you like at any time...GO FOR IT!!
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those will get my posts for tomorrow morning started.
You're exactly right, Snooper, we haven't been this polarized in a LONG time. Unfortunately, this time there aren't the regional boundaries to deliniate things. Although I do have to say, as a Southerner living in the Southeast, I'm seeing a LOT more Rebel flags coming out of mothballs down here...
gil the troll...thanks for making our point(s)...troll.
A Federal Republic is NOT a Democracy yet a Federal Republic operates with democratic principles.
Please study some more and come back when you indeed know what it is you are babbling about.
Trolls. GREAT for the entertainment value!!
To the peanut gallery. Our elections are a "democratic process", but only the very ignorant would mistake that for our country being a democracy.
Jeeez, did you EVER go to school?
What a joke and a GREAT GREAT example for my posts tomorrow about how our schools are not fully educating the masses.
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HAWK...buy the book:
The Politically Incorrect Guide to The South (and Why It Will Rise Again)
Thanks for the link, Spree--I went and signed Crotchety's comments for him.
Hilarious Snooper, the guy can't even acknowledge he's way off base in what our country actually is--has to revert right back into the BDS because HE HIMSELF (gil) is the true idiot!
I'm up, who wants more soda?
me me me Beth!!!! I finished mine and am having WAY too much fun to get up for more.
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You've got it, Snooper, I'll pick it up tomorrow.
Thanks 
EAGLES UP!!
RUCK UP!!
KEEP FIVE!!
HEY BETH
Let's do this pose your questions clearly and I answer them how is that?
Let's stop pretending that you have anithing on me will you?
Now after I do answer your so called questions.... I do expect you cowards do answer my only one question you keep on dancing around
You stick to the subject, you don't use talking points (defeatists, supporting the troops, etc, etc) and you don't invent, or use personal opinions (like with Sun Tzu). You want a debate dear? Then let's debate, but stop dancing because you don't do it very well.
DEAL??
The trolls over at MIT blog at the RNC blog are eerily silent. Have they migrated here? LOL!!!
Haven't you heard, gil? We don't make deals with...
I think they have Snooper--this one sounds suspiciously like LtRP.
UHOH!!! The Troll used "dancing" in ITS verbiage. Sounds like the ZERO troll to me!! LOL!! What a LOSER!!
Hey snooper
I am making your point? No Snoop in order for me to do that you first have to have a point.
Snoop if we don't live in a Democracy why does Bush keeps on saying that we do?
OH I forgot you morons can't answer questions.
Trolls ALL use the SAME source...moveOnDotOrgasm...LOL!!!
...trolls...
(you thought I was going to say something else, didn't you? never pays to try to guess the hand of a Paladin)
It's also showing ITS inherent laziness in not wanting to read back over the posts to find the questions asked of IT, wants us to do the research IT'S too lazy to do. Plus, IT can't seem to find the repeated answer to ITS own question!
Just like trolls that expect everyone to do the work for them while denigrating and insulting them for doing it.
Not this time--gil, go find the questions yourself, do your own work. You can also find the answer yourself. I'm not doing your legwork for you because you're too lazy to do anything except spout nonsense.
Moron gil troll...consult with ZERO!! LOL!!!
Democracy is the concept...again, study more and learn more...your ignorance is amazingly hilarious!! LOL!!!
Bring em on over Snooper, Beth has the knife today and she is hacking off troll balls famously.
I have the bucket the nails and hammer and they are going into my troll ball wall of fame.
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Oh and Snoop? IT'S referred to Bush as the "decider" at least twice so far--dead giveaway.
trolls always run away from questions asked of them by asking other questions...it is called the distraction and diversion tactics...useless when one knows the stunt.
Holding troll feet to the fire is fun to watch!!
Oh Spree, I have GOT to get one of those walls! May I "borrow" your idea?
Still waiting for lil gil to scroll like a big boy Snooper and show the common courtesy of answering Beth's questions as we answered so many of his before we decided that we were not going to let lil gil distract and distort anymore.
So far all he can do is keep repeating himself and continue making our points FOR us.
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Troll Ball Wall of Shame or Fame?
distraction and diverion, isn't that what we old timers used to call smoke and mirrors?
Take it Beth!!! It is yours.
Sure is Hawk! Thanks Spree--I like the combination of the "Troll Ball Wall of the Shamefully Famous"...how's that?
I like Shame better Snooper, THANKS.
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LOLOL Beth, much better.
correct Hawk!!
For far too long, we on the RIGHT have just shaken our heads in disgust and said and did NOTHING to reel in the Leftinistra.
Now that this MO has begun to cease, the trolls are in full panic mode.
We in the New Media are having an affect and the proof is this troll at this site and others.
Why are they here if we are not a threat to their grip?
Let's add Reid's and Nancy's, as well as Billary's, Kerry's and Edwards' to the wall--I can see it now, little (minisicule) plaques holding the trophies with name plaques under each one...
The more the trolls yap the better we are at getting our influence recognized!
Keep up the good work!
trolls have even entered Cyber Pastor's blog!
I like that "Leftinistra" term. Reminds me a lot of Liddy's "Clintonista." And both are damned hard straight on target.
Add a bunch of serial killers in effigy--since they all, by surrendering fit the serial killer profile with their cut and run surrender...for that is what they truly are, serial killers of our troops, the innocent civilians fighting and dying along with us--I truly don't see a difference between say the sneaky, sliminess of a predator serial killer and our current congress.
Spree.
Only the very ignorant call our country a Democracy.... Really?
And Bush ???? and all our Republican politicians???
Spree you are really trying too hard, and frankly you sound like you live your life in a blog.... Me I do go out for some fresh air and stumbled in a nut cage with chimps talking to each other.
OK Spree please tell Bush your ideas OK ... Be preapred to be kicked out of the WHite House tough. Like I said Bush has his mouth full with the word "Democracy" for you now to ask him to be "Correct" and say Constitutional Republic, or Federal Republic or why not Constitutional Federal Republic... Even snooper now changed from Constitutional Republic to Federal Republic so if he can so can I .... Now since Snoop here thinks he is right and Spree here thinks he is right then it most be a Constitutional Federal Republic .... So who is right people??
I am starting to sound like you... This is bad news ... So I'll just say......
As far as I am concerned I could care less how you people dedide to call it here at the twilight zone.
NO SPAMMING ADVERTISEMENTS HERE... bye bye
Edited By Siteowner
Hawk...the Leftinistra is as follows: the Armies of the Socialist Liberals.
I did some time fighting the Sandinistas and that term Clintonistas came from that.
I extrapolated the two into the Leftinistra term.
Use it as you see fit.
UHOH!! Enter Another Troll!!!
TROLL ALERT!!! LOL!!!
Snooper, I am gonna cook right quick and then brb, BUT, I haven't been able to GET to Cyber Pastors blog, can you list the URL and we can all go play there too?
We are adults and we can multitask between lil gil and the Pastors site.
Although, Hawk, be prepared to be called a sock puppet version of Snooper, incapable of being your own person--it's amazing how the trolls attribute so much power to one person on these blogs! Hey y'all, did you see my pictures of Reid in my post on him--particularly his "message to the troops"?
Knew the Sandinistas a bit myself back in the day, Snooper, even wore the green chord bracelet for a bit.
gil has a problem with semantics...proof positive that IT has very little going for IT in the education realm...LOL!!! I see them ALL the time in my classes!!
Please, Snoop--I haven't been able to get on today, either--is TH having trouble again? We'll clear out CP's infestation and sing while we're doing it!
Townhall is having troll palsies from what I can gather. I have been having problems posting on my blog over there as well.
Heh, people say that about me having "mini-me's" already, Beth, this should be a fun ride.
Oh Snooper, you should have seen him dance when I brought up my cousin--he chose to attack me for not falling down in adoration of Tzu rather than question what really goes on in the academies and why Tzu is taught! It was hilarious!
UHOH!!! A jihadist's FAVORITE meal is ready...pork chops on the grill! Smells great!
In the words of my FAVORITE General, "I shall return!".
Miss Beth...I saw it prattling along...what a moron IT is...
BRB...gotta eat!
Enjoy, Snooper.
Sun Tzu was a very wise philosopher and strategist, Beth, but I much prefer to study Forrest and Patton, myself.
And we look forward to your return! Hmmm...maybe dinner tonight here will be BACON and eggs or PORK chorizo and eggs...something lite, but filled with PORK.
Ya'll evidently didn't read my posting yesterday. We're banning pork now, and eggs, and forks...
I will admit to Tzu's approach in many ways--however, I just couldn't resist pointing out the obvious--that Tzu's teachings were perverted by Stalin and Mao for methods of oppression and to stop opposition to that oppression.
I also prefer Patton--he certainly didn't mince words, nor did McCarthy. True Americans, all.
LOL! I did see it Hawk and loved it! The ultimate of liberals trying to be soooooooooooo accepting of those that want to kill us, and thinking we need protection from literally everything, like the children THEY are...it was an excellent post!
THANKEE
I was highly hacked off when I wrote it, could you tell?
Um, for that matter, I was hacked off when I started comments on this thread, too, if I recollect...
ooops?
Still say "Yellow Party" has a ring to it.
Brat .
I am asking you what is victory not the Iraqy people. They are too busy killing themselves, or running away to other countries as refugees, or hiding in their homes.
Cut the bull shit and the self-righteous remarks. If you are so concerned about the people of Iraq then why don't you demand for a political solution by it's Government? Don't they have a Democracy acording to you delusional idiots? So let's see the Democracy at work then!!!
Stop pretending that after four years of mistakes you people have the credibility or standing to tell us what to do or what to believe in.
I ask you a question that simply is not covered by talking points that's whay you people want me to talk to the Iraqi or to the troops or to the Martians.... But not to you because you have no answer pal.
Like Beth and Spree also yu tend to disregard un-educated people (according to you) only to the extent that does not apply to Bush and his Bushisms right? That will make you a hypocrite and your "opinion" have the value of cow manure .
You know it is people like you that can simply come here to lie about conditions in Iraq that do need to go there on your summer vacation. So be a pal and tell us if you bought a ticket for July. It is litteraly impossible to debate with people that will simply take a pass on reality and create a world of their liking.... Iraq is fine, but never fine enough not to merit surges of course, and we are winning only never clearly enough to get out.
Yeah right. I am sorry guys but I came from the real world. You are very educated people indeed in fact so well educated that you buy the Irak is fine B.S. and the Victory is Irak and Iran together with Nuclear Weapons .
You know I might not know how to spell.... But at least I am not an idiot that believes in Santa ... Or do we have a victory now ? Nope... JUST SALIVA IN INDUSTRIAL AMOUNTS.
Ever heard of PULL UP OR SHUT UP PEOPLE?
After four years is high time you do.
Gonna take a lot longer than four years to make it work in Iraq, gil, or anywhere else in the Middle East. Anyone who has studied the region knows that there are things going on there that have been brewing since, recently, the end of WWII, and further back than that, back to Biblical times. You think 4 years of trying to turn it around is going to work?
LOLOLOLOL! Now he's attacking Brat for her very salient points! He compares his sadly lacking education to Bush's Ivy League education? Hell, even Moses stuttered! And, of course, our beloved favorite, Yogi Berra--both men FAR better than this troll!
STILL haven't seen IT get off ITS keester and go find the questions to answer--talk about LAZY!!!! TALK ABOUT DANCING AROUND THE ISSUES!!! Or is IT simply frightened out of ITS mind at having to answer something for a change without the talking points prepared by Soros and traitor central?
Methinks it's both!
Snooper.
You do really need to get out of your hole more often.... There's about 70% of Americans by last count that are "trolls" according to your definition. With so many out there there is a high provability that some might find your hole (this blog).
No need to panic, we trolls have no interest in finding out how you things say, or do in the undergrownd. I am just bored and having a lot of fun trashing the hell out of the likes of you all.
Now it's babytalking, how quaint
Spot ON, Hawk! IT denies it wants things solved in a nanosecond and suffers from rampant ADHD, but that's exactly what IT suffers from when IT and ITS ilk want things accomplished IMMEDIATELY or it's all lost.
But ITS not a defeatist and seems to think IT'S a realist?
You simply don't solve centuries old problems in a blink of an eye and 4 years is NOTHING but a blink of an eye in the culture of the Middle East.
The Iraqis are doing their absolute best to step up to the plate, and doing a remarkable job of it, as well--and they're accepting our help eagerly and whole-heartedly. They have more courage in their pinkie toes than this swamp creature! I applaud them for their courage and THEIR spirits breaking free, them taking their first fledgling steps and taking control away from those that want to continue to oppress them!
Hawk
No Hawk you just don't have the... to confront your challengers.
Why is IT so afraid to ask the Iraqi people what VICTORY is? Is IT that cowardly? The Iraqi people are the very people that SHOULD be asked!
I don't SEE any challengers, gil
undergrownd? WTF is THAT? Omg he cannot even use real words now.... gil, in case you haven't noticed, your balls were ripped off in an intellectual discussion by Beth.
You do not know how to research, your only ability so far has been to spew your party's talking points instead of actually trying to find your brain and use it.
You have not been able to rationally debate ANY point that has been brought up and you are using words that do not exist in ANY dictionary.
God my next post is going to have so many of your screwups in it, even the liberals won't want you speaking on their behalf.
Grow up gil and try doing a little research instead of repeating OLD talking points from those liberal sites you must so enjoy.
I would suggest going back to school also, I may be able to handle a misspelled word here and there, but when you start creating your own language, to boot, then it is time take some night classes.
Make sure they include history also since you didn't learn the basics in gradeschool.
see ya troll!!!!
.
Nor do I Hawk..what I DO see is someone who is terrified to answer ITS challengers very valid questions and too lazy to go find them for himself, while attempting (key word here) to attack the board here.
And NOT Revisionist history written by the multi-cultural diversifiers who don't want the facts known!
Beth? Do you know Cyber Pastors URL? We would love to go join THAT fun also.
.
So is he taking so long to reply because he's waiting for instructions from the mother ship or what?
Here it is Spree--I managed to get on and have left a comment for his troll as well:
http://dotherightthing.townhall....f5-
c33fc91f01a8
I think so, Hawk--either that or he's having to change his pants from wetting himself so often OR having to change the bandages from me ripping his balls off!
Thanks Beth, and Hawk, you have just won the "shit stirring golden spoon" since YOU had the first comment that started this...LOL
You certainly brought the turds out in full force.
Well, spree always has been good at neutering the needy.
I do what I can. I'm a humble man, actually, quite unassuming, quite modest.
I'm just glad to be of some help in any insignifant way whatsoever...
LOL! Putting these trolls back into the swamp and stomping them down is certainly not insignificant...particularly when our TRUE Patriots are being insulted by the head trolls in congress!
Not to mention these trolls painting targets on them and the people who are wanting our help in getting started--that simply makes my blood boil and they don't deserve to breathe the air of freedom!
Those have actually graduated to Ogre status, haven't they? I mean, look at Nancy Pelosi...if that's not an ogre...
Enough to give you the heebie jeebies in a dark alley! I mean, I have thyroid disease, but at least I don't look like THAT with the scary looking eyes!
I think that the face lifts to try to appear human play into that look, too.
Hawk.
You know my friend you are right. IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LOT LONGER THAN FOUR YEARS to make it work... Only we don't have a lot longer than four years to make it work. And it made never work.
Regardless of what you people keep on insisting Iraq will be decided by the Republican party before the elections in 08. We are a Democracy, the American people gave you guys your chance and expected results not "Is going to take longer than long". That's what happens when a President "markets" the war with a bunch of lies and rosy scenarios and "turn the corner" only to find a "surge" at the other side of the corner that was turned for the hundred time.
Americans are not fools people. You guys are running on fumes pretending that if you insult enough, and if you act tough enough some how you will intimidate your detractors. WRONG. We are fed up with the likes of you and your ideas. We already showed you in 06 and by God we will again in 08 if you continue.
Sun Tzu was a wise man please read his book. In the end it is upon the Leader to unite the people in a long war ... Or loose the war. Don't blame the people, don't blame your enemy... Blame your leader for he and only he has the power to unite and win or divide and loose.
You Republicans tought (and still do)you could win a war and elections at home by dividing us? ..... OK you have succeeded. We are divided and about to put you in the right place.... A permanent minority with no voice or responsibility.
OH but you get to call us defeatists... I am hearth broken.
Nancy Pelosi is an embarrasment to women, just as Reid is an embarrassment to men.
2008 is going to show these people why you do not bet AGAINST America and why you do NOT do anything to harm our troops as Reid just did.
This says it all:
An Open Letter to Senator Reid on His Declaration of Defeat.
The following letter was written by Lt. Jason Nichols, a Naval officer who is currently serving in Baghdad. He is also the head of Appeal for Courage, a group of American active duty and reserve service personnel who are appealing to Congress to stay and finish the war.
Senator Reid:
When you say we’ve lost in Iraq, I don’t think you understand the effect of your words. The Iraqis I speak with are the good guys here, fighting to build a stable government. They hear what you say, but they don’t understand it. They don’t know about the political game, they don’t know about a Presidential veto, and they don’t know about party politics.
But they do know that if they help us, they are noticed by terrorists and extremists. They decide to help us if they think we can protect them from those terrorists. They tell us where caches of weapons are hidden. They call and report small groups of men who are strangers to the neighborhood, men that look the same to us, but are obvious to them as a foreign suicide cell.
To be brief, your words are killing us. Your statements make the Iraqis afraid to help us for fear we’ll leave them unprotected in the future. They don’t report a cache, and its weapons blow up my friends in a convoy. They don’t report a foreign fighter, and that fighter sends a mortar onto my base. Your statements are noticed, and they have an effect.
Finally, you are mistaken when you say we are losing. We are winning, I see it every day. However, we will win with fewer casualties if you help us. Will you?
Respectfully,
LT Jason Nichols, USN
MNF-I, Baghdad
Reids words are KILLING our troops.
Way to go Reid!!!!!!! What is the encore? Stabbing them directly in the back?
.
I've read Sun Tzu, gil, and it's still not a democracy, it's a representative republic.
Hawk, gil has a learning disability or he never passed 6th grade. I have figured out which yet?
Dinner time, be right back.
.
enjoy
By learning disability do you mean head up his ass?
Just curious.
Not only that, Hawk, but he STILL hasn't answered any questions and STILL thinks a margin of 100,000 votes in a country of 298,444,215 is something to crow about? And, of course, sticking to IT'S talking points while making absolutely NO SENSE at all.
Mother ship must be lagging
Yes, Hawk, I think you've got it...now the liberals need to come up with a telethon for it, raise all kinds of funds to find a cure for it (even though there will never be a cure, ala embryonic stem cell research), and can't figure out this isn't Snooper's blog, but Spree's.
Oh yeah, he really impresses me---NOT!
A little difficult for the mothership to make contact when his brain is firmly entrenched in his alimentary canal!
It thinks this is Snoopers blog?
LOLOLOLOL
Snooper wasn't the one who asked me to come write here, although with the right legs, if asked nicely...
AHEM
Nope, not Snoopers site.
Beth.
Are we still dancing here.... You kept on saying that I was not answering your questions. I answered you fine, give me your questions and I will answer them.... With the condition that you answer mine with no talking points and troll B.S.
SILENCE.
And then Hawk tells me we don't do deals with...
Beth if you were a man you know what I would be thinking right? And Hawk Let's not get too personal here will you... Did you see my answer? did you like it ? Is that debate? NO right ? So let's just come down will you.
Only good for insults? I can give them back and then some... But this is getting too boring you guys really have nothing but the usual "troll" "victory", "defeatist", "idiot Liberals" "Defeactorats", "support the troops" and so on.
I was looking for a nice debate about Iraq and the merits of your policies not the merits of your policies while hiding behind the troops.
But you see Beth and Spree? I call you on your bluff about the questions I supposedly don't answer and you run.
Here's ITS comment from above:
Snooper.
You do really need to get out of your hole more often.... There's about 70% of Americans by last count that are "trolls" according to your definition. With so many out there there is a high provability that some might find your hole (this blog).
But we're supposed to be impressed with it's drooling, slavering blathering and nonsense?
Beth told you she wasn't doing your legwork, you could look for them yourself.
Me, I don't personally see anything debatable with you, from what you've been saying.
So I peeked before my noodles were done. My Mistake, but I do not have time to handle the trolls on this post either:
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....america-
to.html
Have fun and will eat QUICK so I can come play too.
.
Anyone can see you are simply hiding from answering questions and are incapable or incapacitated by your laziness to find the questions asked of you.
You have no concept of rational thinking or debate and think your talking points are truth. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit your head off.
You are simply like all the other defeatists and lazy liberals who want everyone else to do your work for you while you sit on your fat ass and dance.
Why should I find the questions I asked you and you were too lazy, too scared and too stupid to answer? Do your own work. And if I were a man, you wouldn't be standing--you don't even have the balls (of course not since they were sliced off and now hang on the wall of shame) to do your own research, whatever would make me think you'd get off your lazy butt and stand toe to toe in a fight?
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence that can read this section can see how you have refused to answer any questions while yours have been answered innumerable times and how you continue to dance around the issue because you are simply lazy. You? A man? What kind? Homo or metro? Certainly not "real".
Got it Spree--have already fired across the bow. Is my new knife ready yet?
That is why today 70% of the idomitable Americans are telling you to stop
CORRECTION, gil. that is "70% of those SURVEYED" Your polls are sorely lacking.
As to your "November 06" comment, don't think for a minute you got a mandate. Although Democrats did pick up seats, many were just barely won by small margins. In fact, if the country is so "anti-war" as you lefty's think, how do you account for Lieberman?
Once you figure out Lieberman winning against a staunch anti-war Democrat, then see if you can fathom the following video;
Iraqi Boy Scouts prepare for Jamboree
Spree.
I read your open letter to the Democratic leadership.... Very, very touching how we are trying to help the Iraqi Government stay on its feet and how our soldiers are gettin killed by his and her words!!! OH my God I almost cried....
Here's Reid answers if he could answer .
Dear Sir.
As the Leader of the Senate it is my resonsibilty to give the American people a voice. The President of our great Nation is not a king or a Dictator. The President has the responsibility to account for progress in order to validate his policies. For too long this President answered to no one as if he was a King. That stops now.
Progess not words will be demanded. We can not continue to ask our brave soldiers to sacrifice for much longer. At some point in time the Iraqi people and it's elected Government has to stend up to the plate and take control of their country. That time is fast approaching.
If I have my opinion about Iraq, so does Bush and he and I have every right to express it. If you don't like my opinion that is your right, but really Sir, stop pretending that I am harming the troops that your side keeps on sending back again and again in deed not in words like mine.
After all Sir words in this case will not kill our troops, but our troops beeing there for the fourth tour with hardly any rest will.
In the end Sir, you and I as good Americans will have the time and place to decide with our votes if and when we live Iraq. At such time I will expect you accept the will of the people and cooperate in healing the great divide that our Leaders created among our people.
Once that everithing is said and done we in Congress and the President in the White House, had the responsibility to keep us united and on that we failed misserably. Four years of insults and recreminations, and failure, and rubber stamping failure, has come to this.
Made God forgive us for so many lives have been lost.
Beth.
You are getting on my nerves.
I ask you to give me your questions and I answer them.... Are you a getting this or are you dumb????
In turn I ask you to answer mine .
Still dancing.... Beth you jut don't have it OK?
Here it is again simple.
Give me your questions ..I'll answer them. I give you my questions (now there is more than one) and you do the same.
Stop running Beth it looks bad. You look like.... "You are cutting and running" like the talking point ? You are an expert at them so maibe that will work.
Forget it Beth YOU ARE A COWARD.
When confronted with pull up or shut up.... You ran... Why should I answer your questions you ask? and why should I confront you on a debate you say.... Because you were asking for one last I checked so I accept. So you run.
Simple because you were demanding me to do it...until I called your bluff.
You are an ignorant individual that hides behind talking points Beth.
So much for your ideas Lady to this day I don't even know what were your stupid questions.
I have better thing s to do that continue to be with you people. Beth you are the worst of all a coward with no convictions.
You have nerves? Didn't think amoebas had nerves, being the one-celled creatures they are. And if I am getting on your nerves, GOOD.
You are an ignorant, backwater, piece of filth that refuses to do anything but talk on point from the mothership. You have no education, you have no skills and you have no capability of answering anything intelligently because you have no intelligence. You obviously cannot read, and the fact you started in with the "if you were a man" garbage shows just how lacking you are in all areas. You are not a man, you don't even qualify as a mouse. You are the ultimate coward, pissing yourself in the face of reality.
First of all, Beth is no coward, from what I've seen. She's plenty capable of handling herself, and from the looks of things, riling the hell out of you.
Secondly, you presume to speak for another (i.e. Harry Reid)? That's classy. Not.
Thirdly, since it didn't soak in any other time that it's been said to you: you want the questions, GO BACK AND GET THEM YOURSELF. I believe I speak for all of us when I say that that is the last time ANYTHING will be repeated to you tonight.
Thank you Hawk.
My pleasure.
Reposting this from the other thread Beth:
Let's see if I get answers here, or if I just get talking points from the mothership:
1). Only 5% of our oil comes from Iraq, 0% from Iran; 12% from the Middle East overall; 48% from Canada yet we're not at war with Canada so how is this a war for oil?
2). Show me a perfectly prosecuted war that DIDN'T contain numerous mistakes
3). Why don't you and others of your ilk admit that in your blindy rabid BDS, none of you can face the fact that Bush has kept his promises--he said the war would not be short-term and we had to plan for the long-term. He didn't say it once, but several times. The ultimate fact is those who suffer from BDS don't have the guts to do what needs to be done, take the time to do it properly (had the UN not tied Bush I's hands, it would have been finished in 1991--tied his hands like y'all are trying to do again thereby insuring we will have to go back yet again if we don't finish this here and now and do it properly), you are all a bunch of spineless, gutless, yellow-bellied wimps, and Bush is the only one with the cajones to stand firm and get the job done. Because he's not saying what you want to hear in your "Rosie" colored world, you tune out.
4). You cowards who think skewed polls, worded in a way guaranteed to give you the answers you so desparately want to hear, are going to impress ME?
5). Do you honestly think the American public is happy with the way your beloved democrats have turned congress into the circus it is today?
6). Do you honestly think a difference of only 100,000 votes was a major win for you? (in a country of 298,444,215?)
7). Do you honestly think the majority of TRUE Americans want to see the images from the 60's repeated with your so-called peace protests in which you support Nazi-ism, Communism, Fascism, Socialism, burning troops in effigy and supporting those who slice off innocents heads for sport and disagreement (think Nick Berg if your brain cells aren't too fried from the drugs you're obviously on)?
. And are you so filled with overconfidence and self importance you KNOW you're going to win in 08 after the democrats have made a complete mockery of this country?
Miss Beth | 04.21.07 - 10:01 pm | #
I can hardly wait until he shows up on my page..will you come obver there if he ever pulls his head out and finds my spot?
ooops, sorry Hawk, but I saw Beth had already done the work for lil gil, and I didn't want it wasted.
.
Not a problem for me, Spree--just wanted it on record in the other post there are questions these numnuts refuse to answer and get it on the record early!
In a second FLAT Beth, damn staright we will.
Any ttroll for that matter.
no worries, mi amore
LOLOLOL Beth. Greg over there isn't really a troll, he agrees with us on ANY subject other than Iraq, I just don't have time for his nonsense tonight.
Thanks guys! I haven't yet been "privileged" to have the trolls on my page, but I will definitely call for backup if I ever am.
Wonder where this one went? He's awfully quiet all of a sudden...
back to the mothership?
Your blog is good Beth, I have no doubt the trolls will find you fast.
,
Wonder if the mothership can give him the answers....doubt it though, and those little amoebas have a hard time swimming through anything factual!
Or upstream...
LOL! True!
Guys this has been a blast. Beth, I am going to email you tomorrow, I have some awesome ideas that will have 10 times the amount of traffic hitting your site within a week.
For now, I MUST rest a little bit.
Thanks SO much and feel free to keep ripping balls off the trolls if you want.
bbs
I confess, I must rest too...Hawk, are you okay with me bailing for a bit?
While doing this hammering, I've been working on some stuff for my legal organization and my head is POUNDING.
Rest well, both of you. Been a fun evening.
I'm heading out myself for the night, see ya'll tomorrow.
OK. I have read every post on here and have concluded that gil the troll is an idiot.
IT is a typical troll...will NOT naswer questions, repeats the SAME Leftinistra BS and defeatist crap.
IT has a mental problem and should be located, neutered and placed in a home for the stupid.
Yes Snooper - gil keeps proving that over and over again. Seems he gets all his info at Daily Kos and has read few if any history books.
Spree.
Here are your answers.
1) First of all I did not say this war was over oil ... But if you ask me this war has become over oil. You know Geography Spree? Iraq is right in the middle of the largest reserves of oil in the world. What happens in Iraq affects the world economy and the world economy affects us. In invading Iraq we went to war in the oil fields of the Middle East Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irak Kuwait, etc. You want to play with matches in a powder cage people ? You got your wish. You have us suffering the consecuences. Truth is we can't get out of Iraq now nut we can "win" aither. We are in fact trapped thnaks to your idiotic policies.
2) There are no perfect wars ... But then again the most imperfect ones are the ones we or others loose.... Show me a war that some one has not lost Spree. And why do you think that staying will make us "win" ... If it was a contest of who can stay the longest we would still be fighting the British in America pal.
3) Because in fact he never said prior to selling the war that the invasion and subsecuent occupation was going to be long. Show me a speach BEFORE THE WAR where he stated that we were going to stay in Iraq for years, spend hundred of billions of Dollars, and strand our Militatu for years .... Or please shut up and stop making things up will you? As for the "cajones" thing pal, fact is that if Bush had any he would send his daughters and put his blood where his mouth is.. Is easy to have cajones when THEY ARE NOT YOURS.... That is for cowards... You like Patton right?... The guy was at the front with his troops, and even then he got the now infamous quote from one of his soldiers "There goes old guts and blood"... "Yes, His guts, our blood" responded the other soldier. You people RENT the balls you say you have, and then act like you have done something. Pathetic.
4) I don't give a rat's ass if you are impressed or not. Polls are there to educate you moron. Is kind of a window of where we are. You don't like the answers you are getting from the polls you can always come hide in blogs like this and make pretend with your fellow idiots. You can create a world all of your own here.
5) OH, I don't know why don't we say that Democrats will get better and that they are "turning the corner"... I am sure you will understand. Patience people after all we have to have patience with the Iraqi Government ... And with Bush's so called surge so why not with the Democratic Congress? Ot is the patience flowing one way in your eyes. Is it do as I say buy not as I do with you hipocrites?
6) Your ass hole President won by a few votes in Florida so I say a win has consecuences if is 1 vote or 1 million votes. Bush is living proof of it. So yes pal 100,000 votes represent your defeat, and in 08 even by one vote your party is going down. We Americans are too tired of loosers pretending they can lead.
7) Yu know spree you are out of it. No one is protesting for the simple
Spree.
Continue. simple reason that we have ourselves an rent-a- balls program so that rich republican kids can be heroes from the comfort of their homes. A voluntary Army fits perfect on your crowd... You "support" them by sending them back again, and again. And you borrow from the Chinese to finance the war so that the war does not cut in your manicure budget. Lovely.
So there Spree. I answered your questions... And that makes Beth a BULL SHITTER by saing I ignore questions... ANd you.... Where is your answer to my question??????
Again. If we give Iraq to the Shiite then al Sistani and al Malaki get the power . They are fully allied to Iran. In fact al Sadar is reported to be living in Iran. So that's how you "win"? By handing Iraq to Iran in a silver platter while the Iranians are embarqued with a REAL nuclear program in fron of your "tough guy" noses?
Is that your victory... Or do you think you give Iraq the means to protect and defend themselves in a vacum?
Where are Bush's "cajones" with the Iranians pal? Where is Bush's pre-emptive policies now? For how long can any one resonably ask the voluntary Army to return to Iraq Spree?... How many tours of duty is enough for you? How many billions before America says ENOUGH.?
Simple questions care to answer?
Snooper .
I answered your questions and that ,ahes you a B.S er.
I noticed that on your posts you hardly ever write more than a few lines..... Is like trolls and gil is an idiot.
You know ass hole, it would be nice if you grow a brain.
yankemom.
I do know where you get your information Rush's radio program and Fox nes.
Sorry I busted into your little sorry ass world people and start actually contradicting your long held ideas. But some one had to tell you that you loosers lost control of Congress because the American people send you a message... Only you are slow, so we'll just have to send you another one.
And after that you guys of course can call us all kinds of names.... Americans have heard your noice for years and no ones gives a darn about what you say, think, or do any more.
Enough. Bantering back and forth is one thing, getting nasty and hateful will not be tolerated.
Edited By Siteowner
OH and Beth...
If you see Spree's post with his questions to me... That's how you ask questions moron.
I am no mind reader to answer your questions when none was ever asked, and then have to suffer your incremental insults about something I did not even do.
You wanted an insult canrnaval you got one.
Yor lack of answers to my simple question of how do you win in Iraq with a Shiite majority shows me clearly you don't even know what in hell you are talking about. You are in this blog to fraternize with your fellow nuts and their little club.
I can hear you know.
"OH Spree you will not believe what the trolls are saying ... Have you been out of your hole lately?" I have (of mine of course let's not start any rumors)and OH my GOOOOOOD !!! They are actually attacking Bush because he made another mistake and is running around trying to find a Czar to coordinate the coordinators of Iraq Coordinated new and improved policy!!! Can you believe it!!!
Hyyyy Snooper did you find your brain ? I think you left it in my bedroom somewhere".
You know Beth... I will not ask you to answer the question any more.... Frankly you or this blog are not worth one more second of my time.
I live you with this tought Beth. When you say you are going to do something you do it or you become a clown and loose credibilty. You and your fellow nuts are at that point wheter you accept it or not. In fact I am making you all a favor even to talk to you because when I do my IQ goes down... So i'll just have to stop before I end up a babbling idiot like you Beth.
Siteowner.
I do agree with you.
Please stop me if I go over the line... But I just ask you to be fair and do the same to the people that are doing the same to me.
By the way I congratulate you in your freedom as a blog. These days more and more blogs are becoming clubs. I tought that good or bad blogs were made for debate... And hopefully honest civilized debate. More and more blogs forget their mission and cut disent immediately .
I noticed from the start that I made points that were simply ignored, I repeated the points and they were ignored again, and again. And then the insults started flying, and I for one apologize. Debate among us is what Democracy is all about. This war deserves to be debated like adults but some how debate and questions always rurn into insults of defeatist, cowards, not supporting the troops, etc. That is dishonest and low and if you guys start like that kind of trash talk, then be prepared to be insulted back is as simple as that.
So again I agree regulate the debate ... Just be fair.
The illiterate gil troll dufusite...behold...LOL!!!
"Snooper .
I answered your questions and that ,ahes you a B.S er.
I noticed that on your posts you hardly ever write more than a few lines..... Is like trolls and gil is an idiot.
You know ass hole, it would be nice if you grow a brain.
gil | Homepage | 04.22.07 - 12:06 am | # "
WHAT?
gil...rambling on and on and on and on using multi paragraphs and lines spouting retarded Leftinistra dribble does not constitute anything but a waste of finger movements.
Sorry to burst your sad, ignorant and uneducated mannerisms.
Have fun, fool.
Snooper, don't you love when they're reduced to abject, gibbering incoherence?
You should have seen the filth he wrote before it was censored--can't get his facts straight over whose questions are whose, thinks Spree is a man...he's totally lost it! But this is what passes for "reasoned debate" with the trolls! LOLOLOLOLOL!
Oh, and Snoop, Spree, and others: take a look at his oh so coherent answers to the questions I asked him several times--he has no answers, not real answers, so he degenerates with each subsequent point I make and he's not capable of countering--degenerates into complete blathering...what a maroon!
Methinks this troll from Canada is a plant for his islamofascist friends--his syntax and sentence structure fit when he "loses it"--any why would a Canadian care about our politics if this wasn't the case? It certainly answers why he refused to provide and answer as to why we're not at war with Canada if, as the talking points state, this war is all about the oil (since our major importer of foreign oil is Canada at 48%).
Perhaps Canada is next?
My time is limited today, I have to pack for my trip among other things and I will be gone monday and tuesday.
So this will be quick,
gil, one thing you better learn VERY quickly here at this blog, you can disagree with the President, you can disagree with his decisions, but if you EVER call a "sitting president", whther it is BUSH now, or any future president, Democratic or Republican, EVER call a sitting president an "asshole", our fun with the lil troll gil will be over because you will be banned fro,m commenting, without further warning.
There used to be a day when the office, itself, whether one liked who was sitting in it or not, was respected, and that day is still alive here at Wake up America.
I will be checking, and I will be leaving someone able to access and ban you while I am gone.
For the record gil, I AM the site owner.
Morning Snooper and Beth, I will be here to join in as soon as I know I haven't forgotten anything major for my business trip!!! LOL
.
Did I miss something? This "gil" is really from Canada?????? Say it isn't so - gasp! I promise you, the education system here really DOES teach our children how to read and write, even using correct grammar.
And, horror of horrors, we even teach our students to think (and research....lol) BEFORE they open their mouths and PROVE they are morons.
And yes - I DO have the credentials, academic background AND firsthand KNOWLEDGE to back those statements. Honest I do.
Well if gil IS from Canada, he could learn a thing or two from THIS Canadian:
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree....e-
american.html
Scroll to the end where the Canadian basically steps up to the plate for America in one of the best pieces ever written!!!!
.
Wait, hold up, STOP THE PRESS!
gil thinks spree is a MAN?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
I CAN'T BREATH!!!!!!!
Well I HAVE been accused of having a lot of balls before!!!
LOL.
.
Yeah, but I'd hardly call you a man.
A walking talking barbie doll maybe, but never a man...
Yep, Hawk...here's a little quote from his "reasoned discussion" above:
"If you see Spree's post with his questions to me... That's how you ask questions moron."
Go check out his "answers" too...they're so very well thought out...NOT!
It's not as if her PICTURE isn't on the blogsite, for crying out loud.
Sheesh, what a nimrod.
I don't publish my real picture because I'm just not that photogenic...but Spree's adorable--and sooooooooo misleading (in a nice way)...People think she's all look and no substance and then WHAM, she hits them with that incredible brain! I LOVE IT!
Snooper's re-posted his jihadist trolls post and I bring that up in light of what I said about gil being one of those, his syntax and sentence structure. Also, he became EXTREMELY flustered each time I jabbed at his alleged masculinity(which, in a male dominated world such as islam is an ultimate insult).
Here's some choice tidbits of his from above to illustrate my thinking here, so y'all don't have to retch re-reading his stuff.
"Beth if you were a man you know what I would be thinking right?"
"Blame your leader..."
"spent hundreds of billions of Dollars to "buy" us a Civil War at best and a quagmire from hell at worst."
"Is there a logical reason why can't terrorist fight us there and here?"
"Your new hero Gen. Petraeus. Lost command of the training of Iraqi security forces when he voiced his frustration with operational matters" (This one is really crazy--where do they get this stuff?)
"Is funny the way you guys think"
"No and this one specially is not"
"You should read his book is required reading for a lot of Military Academies around the world."
"I see you with amusement and feel sorrow for the pain you caused to my country"
Just a few choice renderings--there are many, many more.
Hey all you troop supporters:
Put your money where your mouth is.
Fund the war by "pay as you go"
This means raising taxes to support the funding of the war effort.
Let's see who here is brave enough to call for taxes to support the troops.
Now, let the cowardly back-pedaling begin.
Robert,
You just won the "lamest comment of the day award". Congrats!!!
I happily donate, contribute and "pay as we go" on a regular basis.
Do you support the troops that volunteer to keep you safe Robert?
Do you ever even say "thanks".
Do you pay any attention to them when they ask for, not your money,(which is all you seem to care about) but your support?
Do you pay any attention when they tell you the truth about the conditions on the ground or do you wave it off and keep spouting your liberal "line"?
Do you write to the soldiers or send them care packages to let them know you care?
What exactly do YOU do, other than ridicule those that DOOOOOOO listen to the soldiers owrds, letters, emails and blogs?
What use are YOU to this country Robert?
Last little note to Robert before others come and make mincemeat out of you:
See Robert, WE support our troops unconditionally, You do nothing but whine, complain, surrender, demoralize them and basically take up air on this earth.... weak and yellow bellied, you are asked for NOTHING, you sacrifice NOTHING, and the ONLY thing our troops ask for, "support" you deny them.... you are worthless to this discussion, simply a talking robot for the Democratic party and you cannot even admit when one of your own does wrong.
Our soldiers are more men than you will ever dream of being.
Pitiful.
.
Oh good grief...probably didn't like it that I publicized his friend gil all over my blog with the drivel for all the world to see.
No kidding, Robert, what use are YOU to this country other than being a backstabbing, traitor who will be the first to scream for the military to rescue him when these islamofascists are at your door? You know, the military you'd like to cut off at the knees? We already pay taxes and your arguements are disengenuous. Only 3% of the budget is spent on defense and the majority of that on technology to keep our casualty count the lowest it's EVER been. STFU and go home, back to your cave.
WOOOOOHOOOOOO Beth!!!!!!!!
The cowardly Leftinistra, the Armies of the Socialist Liberals, are less useless than a box of used condoms.
All they do is whine and yip and NEVER offer a solution to that which they jibber-jabber about.
Not one single one of them has an original thought synapse and they parrot their talking dulls from their parent diatribal bafoonery from moveondotwasteofmytime.
If they are EVER confronted by true Patriots, their socks turn yellow.
The Code Pink A.N.S.W.E.R. puppets are hereby renamed Yellow Streak.
This is what I was going to leave before my computer froze up...and I had to go get the girls...
These drones are ridiculous...they never say anything original, think they can come into a 2 day conversation, throw up something covered a day and a half ago and expect not to get bombed off the face of the earth? All they're good for is fertilizer. But oh no, they'll bad mouth the troops, cut their funding, support the reids, pelosis and fellow white flaggers, and never to stop to even think what those troops are doing for THEM and their fat, happy asses sitting in front of screens badmouthing them. And you know, Spree, and I know, they'll be the FIRST screaming for protection from that very military they have nothing but contempt for. Trouble is, if they get their way, THERE WON'T BE A MILITARY to protect their greasy haired, wild-eyed, drooling, fat asses. AAARGH!
They'd whine then because no one was there to protect them, Beth.
EXACTLY Hawk...just before their little piggy throats were slashed and their heads removed by butter knives!
They are the most selfish, senseless excuses for humans I've ever had the misfortune of running across--they want total protection of their freedoms, be it speech or the kind of car they drive, or crap they believe, but they darn sure aren't going to conceded the same freedoms to their fellow countrymen and most especially NOT to those who protect those freedoms for them. All they can do is wake up angry, grow more enraged throughout the day, then spew all the filth and hatred back at the real patriots.
They produce nothing, they contribute nothing, they ARE nothing, and that includes the cretinous clowns in DC. The depths of my contempt for them are unending.
Gee! And on it goes...
They are unteachable. We give them sources and resources and links to factual reports and independent analysis and still the same TPs keep being written over and over and over again ~ all over blogland.
It just boils down to the fact that their pissy people and can't keep a good thought in their heads. They can turn a success into a "Bad Thing" before you can blink.
It must be hard to live so doom and gloomy.
Let's see who here is brave enough to call for taxes to support the troops.
I'll go you one better, Robert. I'll gladly agree to pay more taxes, provided you agree that those tax dollars go only to the troops and that other tax dollars wasted on illegal immigrants, the endowment of the arts, ridiculous hearings on legal attorney firings, congressional pork projects and such be forever banned.
Not to mention, Lew, trips to terrorist states at taxpayer expense, weeks going over non-binding resolutions that waste our money, no more "generational" welfare--limit it to 1 1/2 years to get back on your feet and then you're gone (I would excuse medical from that but only for verifiable reasons such as ongoing and chronic illness that would make it impossible to obtain private health insurance), start revamping the educational system and leave the unions out, make teachers teach real subjects not multi-cultural crap or soft sciences such as evolution and global warming...and HUGELY increase the troop's wages,living allowances, VA benefits--put the money where it matters, for people doing something instead of sitting around on their a**** doing nothing but popping out baby after baby, dealing drugs on the side, and blaming US for their irresponsible laziness. CUT OFF ENDOWMENT OF THE ARTS that offends ANY religion and not just muslims and on and on. Sorry, jumped up on my soapbox there.
Okay, where's Robert? Did he have to run back to moonbat central for the next talking point?
MissBeth, I agree wholeheartidly. Our Troops and Veterans are much more deserving than so many lapping at the public trough today. While some do need help and should be, many others aren't.
We can add any taxpayer support of "Public Broadcasting" to that list.
If 99.99% of my taxes went for the troops and national defense, plus REAL programs, I wouldn't howl so much over my taxes. Instead, having to subsidize so much crap--well, it's just ridiculous. PBS & NPR need to fund themselves as well instead of going on the dole because people don't want to watch them. Instead, they gripe about the Fairness Doctrine. Unfortunately, like all libs, they don't like it that they plain can't compete in a real world marketplace and people just don't want their product.
As for Robert? He apparently left after Spree and I launched into him...what a wuss!
To Robert and other trolls. If you want to show some support for our troops, besides lip service, just walk up and extend your hand and say 'thank you,' when you see one.
Even better, as I have done, if you see a Soldier in a resturant, anonymously pick up his tab.
I always said I would do that and my wife didn't believe me, until I got the first chance to. I had to do it by gift certificate, so I just signed it 'from a grateful Viet Nam Vet, thank you.'
Lew...I have done that as well.
Also, there was 4 soldiers at DFW that were counting their money for a cab and they didn't look all that happy. I offered them a ride but they declined.
I asked the cabbie how much the fare was going to be and I paid the fare.
I got 4 real loud HOOAHs.
Awesome. That is how we support our troops. Not like this child and punk robert and gil.
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