Read the commenting rules carefully because they will be enforced!
Susan - I think you are seeing SOME of the gay/lesbian community moving on. Sadly, whether it's true or not, I think this is the ONLY way many believe they can move forward. I think so many believe that everything has been tried and they still have not seen the result they're looking for. I don't know if it gets better or worse from here...
It has to be extremely frustrating and heartbreaking to know that so many other people don't believe you should be able to marry the person you love most in life. Especially when more than half of "traditional" marriages end in divorce.
To me, if this country truly believed in the "traditional" marriage then they're not doing very much to show it...
Ah, yes, what was that movie back years and years ago? "The shape of things to come?"
Unreal.
Where was the outrage for all the years of hate being directed at the gay community? Oh that's right, there was none.
Disgusting. They are not helping there "cause"....they are aligning themselves with criminals, domestic terrorists, and rapists. Yeah we all want to give em rights now. They have a right to go to prison for hate crimes just like everyone else.
more paintstrokes with a broad brush: we all want to give "'em" rights now.
i really wish people wouldn't group together entire segments of the population as if a few hooligans represented the entire segment.
seems like there's plenty of degrading behavior to go around these days.
The people have spoken. But those that think they can get what by violence and rioting think differently. The real question is, will Americans cave in to this lawlessness and give in?
"em" what should I call "em" that where out there committing violent acts? Some of us have the ability to stay focused on the issues and to differentiate between people in general. "em" that were violently and disgustingly and unlawfully demanding rights are "em" that do not deserve any. Pull you head out next time before you read and you might be able to comprehend the text but then again since you are obviously a bigot that lumps all people together for the behavior of a few, ya might not.
The judgement of their peers have spoken. Same sex marriage is not an acceptable union to the majority. I am pleased to know this part of the country has not forsaken its religious or moral beliefs completely!
When a crowd becomes violent, screaming profanity, placing their hands on others, it IS a CRIME that should be punished to the full extent of the law! Until they begin hauling them off to jail and pressing charges, I am sure it will continue until someone is killed. What a shame!
Just for the record. It is believed that the #1 cause of divorce for traditional marriages is financial. I guess it remains to be seen if the divorce rate declines or escalates in the next 4 yrs!
Hey Faith you know how I personally feel about polls. LOL. I think the decline in our morals as a society probably are the real reason. If people behave godless than they are not going to do well with Godly things. People in general do not respect marriage as they did. It is the constant wearing down of the moral code that has everybody so loony these days. (By the way I am not arguing your numbers....just the motive of those taking them. Maybe people are starting to see that this all is good if it feels good society ain't working out to well.
As to "rights," I'm going to point out something here that is being overlooked, the Constitution of the United States, which I have to confess, I'm not surprised, actually, as it seems to be ignored quite frequently these days.
The Constitution states that the powers not specifically given to the federal government belong to the states, it seems to me that the people of the state of California have spoken...
Well as I came to view... the video has been removed.
I am sickened by this outrageous and horrible event and all others associated with it.
All they're doing is proving that they don't have the right to marry... but they certainly think they have the right to hurt, molest and threaten to kill.
i hope you remember this experience next time you see a homeless person arrested for panhandling. what right is it exactly that you were exercising? have you never seen the free speech zones marked off in san francisco?
this used to be a free country. really, think hard about what's being said in the article linked beneath these comments:
"It seems to me that modern-day liberals want a cradle-to-grave big, socialistic, pro-activism, ever-expanding in size, scope and it
’s intrusiveness against civil and Constitutional rights federal government to take care of virtuously everything in their lives so that they have no worries about life, if God exists, or if certain library rights for terror suspects have been violated."
i am pro-activism. the more we fight each other, the more power the government has over individuals. if you don't value other's right to free exercise, why should i value yours?
we all hang together or we are doomed to hang separately. i have not forgotten what our country was founded on.
It is strange that I don't hear Christians (even the most anti-Gay) ministers calling for the deaths of Gays and Lesbians, or calling for violence to them (and if you mention Fred Phelps I remind you that in no way is he or his followers Christians). But I hear a call for violence from the Gay community.
The voters have made themselves heard and that is that. If the Gay doesn't like the result, then they should put it up on the next ballot.
Frankly, I don't really see how someone who just helped (through prayer or whatever) trample on a group's rights has any right to complain when that group gets unruly.
People just don't take that kind of crap from religious nuts anymore. And you can talk about freedom of speech all you want. If you use that freedom of speech to rid another person of constitutional rights, I don't personally have a problem with that person telling you off. I'm sorry, I don't care what happens to intolerant people. Stop being a jerk and stop using laws to hurt others, and I'll stop rooting for gay people to kick you in the face.
Show me where it's a constitutional right. Prove it. NOW. Violence doesn't prove a damn thing and telling someone off is different from a physical attack. If you can't tell the difference you need mental help.
In the meantime, show me where gay marriage is a constitutional right.
"It is strange that I don't hear Christians (even the most anti-Gay) ministers calling for the deaths of Gays and Lesbians, or calling for violence to them (and if you mention Fred Phelps I remind you that in no way is he or his followers Christians). But I hear a call for violence from the Gay community."
so... fred phelps can't speak for christians, but only the most unruly gay people speak for that "community".
do you not see how ridiculous that is? why don't we all just get to be "people" and leave it at that?
and i'll demonstrate how marriage is a constitutional right. you have the right to free association, don't you? you have the right to free religious exercise and free speech, right?
so why can you ban others from saying "i do" with the person they want to associate with? how can you ban the faithful from performing marriage ceremonies?
checkmate. your right to vote doesn't trump everyone else's civil rights. how would that begin to work?
i mean, can we vote to legalize slavery again? i do not think you guys have thought this through.
Cite article and section. No spin, just the facts. Show me where the founding fathers specifically wrote gay marriage is a civil right. Show me where voting is a right--there are amendments to an assumed right, but show me the actual amendment giving us the right to vote on anything higher than a senator.
Then show me the article that says it's a civil right to violently impose your will on someone else.
Checkmate my ass.
"i'll demonstrate how marriage is a constitutional right. you have the right to free association, don't you? you have the right to free religious exercise and free speech, right?"
That is total spin and here is why:
Free association, free religious exercise and free speech ARE enshrined in your constitution. I dont remember reading that gay marriage is in there. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
IF gays don't agree with the CIVIL laws then they should work to change them. Beating people up and being generally obnoxious aint gonna get that change..Or are they thinking if they become violent enough Obama will magically give them that "change"?????
IF they disapprove of the Churches so much that they have to desecrate a religious place, then let the gays start their own religion, pay for their own churches etc... "Freedom of Religion". I dont care what your sexual preference is: YOUR freedom to express that STOPS the minute you make it a problem for me.. Period. Tolerance for thee but not for me????????? NOT!!!
These thugs are just bullies who haven't yet understood that the more violent they are, the more intransigent Americans will be. The recent bs will NEVER convince heterosexual, middle America to vote to overturn one of the cornerstones of American society: Marriage as being between one man and one woman.
Oh and the comment above was me..Sorry about that. You know how I get when faced with such specious nonsense aka stooopidity....
I corrected it brat--no problem. I'm personally sick to death of people claiming constitutional rights where there are none. Maybe they should take the time and READ the constitution for a change. Once read, maybe they should endeavor to COMPREHEND the ACTUAL meaning of the document instead of what they WISH it would say.
checkmate. your right to vote doesn't trump everyone else's civil rights. how would that begin to work?
----------
This statement makes no sense! Obviously a majority vote DOES "trump"! If it were a "civil right" to same sex marriage, there would be no voting issue!
In a more personal and religious view ... what does "trump" all is GOD's word! Thankfully this country has not completely lost all its religious values YET! When we loose this is when we start dragging out the "hand baskets"!
The behaviour of the few gays who are violent and ugly remind me of a kindergarten group who dont like the rules which have been agreed on by the majority. Temper tantrums dont work there and they sure won't work in this issue.
The hypocrisy drives me crazy. On the one hand they say they want inclusion and respect within the Constitution, yet their behaviour PROVES they have no respect for anyone else's Constitutional rights. NUTS! (And these opinions from someone who has NOT studied your Constitution in great depth! Me )
Right on Faith. People can argue the secular arguments all they like--however, this country was founded on CHRISTIAN principles and thankfully the majority still believe in those principles. Me included.
The family unit is the absolute oldest "unit" on the face of the earth, from time immemorial and prior to man even being aware of God. It is the one foundation upon which society and civilization sit, and the success or failure thereof sit. God didn't make man and woman by accident. It was purposeful. Even for couples who are incapable of conceiving their own children, the parts are made to fit. They are NOT made to fit in a m/m or f/f "unit", childbearing notwithstanding. The human race was not designed for m/m and f/f. No amount of argument or spin can change that fact or the fact we are made in His image or by His design.
And the inter-racial arguments don't wash either. You simply can't change your color. Nor did God forbid inter-racial. Again, the parts fit, color notwithstanding.
I will admit a very small percentage of the population MAY be born gay; I will maintain the majority who claim to be gay do so from a deliberate choice they made, simply because it's the "popular" thing at the moment. It's good for "shock" value and melodrama and those who claim "gayness" are often drama queens--in Vegas, they termed such "flamers" (and that was their own description for the extreme drama queens).
Take for example Anne Heche. She "thought" she was "gay" when she "thought" she would get lots of "work" in Hollywoood. She didn't count on the general public turning their backs on her. When she realized she had hastened her obscurity, she left Ellen and was "suddenly straight" again. And her obscurity is still firmly in place--how many blockbuster movies or successful series has she had since her "choice"? How many really give a damn about Lindsay Lohan now? It seems the most talentless are the ones who think this "choice" will get them the "notice" and "parts" they so covet.
Ergo, choice, not something unchangeable such as color or infertility. And when they don't get their way, when their "fortunes" don't buy them what they want, they stomp their feet and throw hissy fits that interfere with the true rights of others.
Exactly brat--and I tend to ground my children when they act like 2 year olds. I also find when people start getting in my face trying to impose their values on me, I tend to dig my heels in, jutt my chin out and say NUTS--MAKE ME. The more obstinate they get, the more immoveable I get. THAT is human nature and the backlash from the hetero community is not going to be pretty.
Agree on all your points. Temper tantrums just make ME dig my heels in.
Trying to molest someone is definitely violence, and intimidation and violence do not help the "cause" no matter what it is. Who is being intolerant of whom in this case?
Christians are being blamed for opposing the re-definition of marriage and having strong moral beliefs on the subject, but the people voted, and that’s the way it works in this country.
It also seems that this is no longer about tolerance and gay rights, but instead about moral affirmation. Organizations like the ACLU have tried to make gay rights a ”civil rights” issue, and are using discrimination “guilt” to try and force society to give moral affirmation to the gay/lesbian community.
One can not demand or force a moral affirmation from society as a whole no matter how many state Constitution’s are amended.
Gay people have the same privileges as straight people. I think the civil rights movement proves that. Do gay people get put in the back of the bus or forbiden from riding at all? Are they forbiden from attending schools because it's for straight people only? Gay people are senators! CEO's of companies. Singers and actors. They have tv shows. Adopt children to raise. Buy homes together. Live their life in the public and those who are different say it's your life and not mine. It was the very people who wanted rights and to be equal who voted against gay marriage. Why? It's not that they are trying to deny you any rights, you have rights. It's just not enough for the gay community because they want everyone's religion to agree also. You are trying to change everyone's religion to fit your beliefs. This whole thing is not about the right to marry the same sex. It's the other way around. Gay's are trying to use the state laws to change the books of religion around the world. Our creator meant for a union to be between a man and woman no matter what religion you believe in or don't believe at all. He made two animals of male and female....I have gay friends. What they do in their beds is their business. But I made it plan that I would not go along with a state law that try's to rewrite the Holy Bible. The church and state are suppose to be separate. In the church the union between one man and one women is marriage according to the Bible. So, why then should gays worry about marriage? If you want a union to be seen as partners, then call it what it is. But quit trying to use religion to further your cause. Gays are the ones that are not separating church and state. The state voted. The state said NO!!! As matter of fact, the people said no!....Black folks didn't use their movement for rights by attacking church folks, roiting in the streets, and assulting people. If anything that was what was done to them. Put a picture of blacks being hosed by water spray and the way gays are acting in the street and see who will stand beside their cause then! If this all the tolerance you will show to my family, then don't expect me to turn the other cheek!
I am amazed how casually people justify state-law discrimination in this religious-freedom country on religious grounds, and how they seemingly have no clue as to how much damage they are doing to people's perceptions of religion and faith by engaging God in the hatred to which their discrimination amounts. You so-called religious people are blaspheming the message Jesus gave us, and are going to be your own undoing.
the reliance on religious justification for state-law discrimination against people with different (or no) faith-beliefs is unconstitutional. simple.
If the ACLU is involved you can be pretty sure it is something to rip our constitution to shreds and ruin our country. The ACLU also represents child molesters and want to infiltrate that into our moral code as a society. Where does it stop? What about people that are hetro one day and homo the next? If they marry do they then get special divorce law rights because they did not mean to sleep with the opposite or same sex ....it is just part of their condition.....they can not help it...right? Well I guess we should change the constitution to allow multiple marriages that way a person that is hetrohomo can then marry a hetro and a homo. Oh but wait then that will allow for multiple wives which will lead to more domestic abuse and suppression of women. It will probably lead to more cases of child brides but then again that will not be a big deal because the ACLU is working on the rights of adults to molest children anyway. We have laws and rights already in place to protect intolerance. We can not act out in violence to one another because we do not agree on issues,politics,religion,what a person says,thinks,or feels,or the type of sex a person chooses to have. We also have the right to not agree at all and a right to not have to not give any moral affirmation what so ever to any group or individual! It is at this time the majority of Americans' postition that America should not morally affirm the homosexual life style in this way because it would be better for America. Contrary to the ACLU's belief that the MAJORITY should not have a voice or that we do not count,by DAMN we do!
Mark I have had enough of you twisting the Word of God to fit your needs. Give me chapter and verse from the Bible where it says Jesus said not to follow the Law of God or the commandments. Where does it say that Jesus instructed us to allow a constitutional amendment to blasphemy Gods Ordainment of marriage? Tell me how we are going against Christ by lovingly and non violently saying to gays it is your free will to live like you are but it is a sin and we can not tell you it is OK to live in unrepentant sin. Would it be better to lie and say they will never have to answer for that? Will it be better if we so twist the word to allow any sin we do not want to give up that eventually no one sees the need for what Christ did for sinners to be reconciled to and in relationship with God? So we should just completely forget all our Biblical teachings to suck the gays in and then whammy them with the truth or abandon our religous beliefs altogether? Is that not what we have all been saying here? They have rights but they want to take ours away and are doing so since Prop 8 was voted on!
"Free association, free religious exercise and free speech ARE enshrined in your constitution. I dont remember reading that gay marriage is in there. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong."
yes, that's what i was referring to. it's called the first amendment. can you show me where those rights can be withheld from certain people?
or explain why doesn't it include gay marriage? any marriage is simply two people associating with each other, with their union blessed by a religious person. free association + free exercise = marriage
please explain to me what "marriage" is, if that isn't it. the state didn't seem to care how we consummated anything when we got our paperwork. they didn't ask me and my husband if we'd cleared it with any god.
what has complicated things is the defense of marriage act, a bundle of federal legislation that gives special perks to married couples. that is why the word "marriage" is even in contention. marriage is now a legal term as well as a "religious" term. if you don't like that, maybe you should work to overturn the DOMA.
this is no longer just about tradition: it's about equal treatment under the law.
to faith:
"This statement makes no sense! Obviously a majority vote DOES "trump"! If it were a "civil right" to same sex marriage, there would be no voting issue!"
that isn't true. california has one of the most liberal constitutions in the country, and people are allowed to add amendments to the ballot if they reach a certain number of signatures.
i will not support restrictions on those propositions, because i value everyone's speech rights. if you're free to amend the constitution, you should be free to write the proposition you think would be best without worrying about being censored by some legislator before it goes to a vote. that's just my personal opinion.
this is why prop 22 passed in 2000, but was then overturned this year. the court prevented the majority from voting away the rights of the minority. their opinions specify where the conflicts in the law are.
that's why i asked if it should be possible to vote to reinstitute slavery. would you accept such an amendment to the federal constitution? i would hope no one would really support such an idea. and if it did actually pass, i would hope that the court would overturn it because of the equal rights amendment.
wouldn't you?
so i must ask, why are gay people different and not entitled to the same rights as the rest of us?
and why don't you realize how this erodes all our rights? women used to be sold as property. that's the origin of traditional marriage. i am happier with the modern version, thank you. we should get to choose our partners.
Wow, people are just seeing what they want to see at this point.
I address most of this in my post below "What About This Marriage Thing?"
Plain and simple, church and state separated. Marriage is a religious institution, Unions are a civil institution. If gays demanded to be able to have civil unions so they can set up house holds I don't think people would care. However they are trying to use a law to change a religious institution.
It is my belief that all people should get civil unions and only do a marraige ceremony if they truly want to have God be a binding force in their marriage. When I got married I had holy communion, took the vows very seriously as well as the symbology. To me it was a ritual that bound my marriage to the laws that God set forth. Those laws are not the laws of man, but I think the laws of man can include a civil union which extends to all secular unions of those wishing to for a household.
Furthermore, allow the churchs to decide who they will perform the ceremony for. Some will, Some won't, that is the right of the religion.
Have fun bitchin at each other, but really it is a very simple fix if people would quit being dumbasses. =)
"Have fun bitchin at each other, but really it is a very simple fix if people would quit being dumbasses. =)"
ha ha ha !!! funny!!
I think Nicole wants everybody in the country bound by her religious laws. Sorry, Nicole - you need to go to Iran if you want religion to dictate what the law is - here in the USA we have a Constitution that protects the minority from the dictatorship of the majority. We're (just about) the only country n the world that has this system of protections! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
That's fine Mark because I could care less what you think of me. The Point is that these gay activists are committing crimes against law abiding citizens and are trying to force themselves and their beliefs on everyone else and are trampling on the rights of others. The funny I see here is you have no answers for my questions or proof to support your statements. These people do not have a RIGHT to do what they did. Prove also where anyone, Christian or non, has done anything unconstitutional or illegal by participating in the elections? These are not acts of self defense.....so there is NO EXCUSE FOR THEM.
I agree call it civil union,call it a rainbow pact, or whatever I do not care but the marriage word ain't working and the violence is going to set it all back even further.
Mark just to be perfectly clear; I am far too complex for you to figure out and it would serve you better to let it go,stay on topic, and be able to prove what the heck you are saying.
Hey Mark I also do not worship the moon god of Iran. You are just guessing on all this religous stuff aren't ya?
Nicole.... Allah is just their name for God, ya know like JHVH is the name for God in the Hebrew language?
Christians and Muslims worship the same God, they just disagree on how to do it. AND the Muslims beleive that Jesus will come back and they have a folk hero that Jesus will ask to help lead the Armies of God when the end comes. Really interesting stuff. =)
But I digress. Nobody needs to go to Iran, our laws do have a religious foundation that was even put into the Constitution, something about not conducting government business on Sundays. That was in an effort to respect christian religious law about working on sundays.
I dare say the only church that hates gays is the Phelps church, and I am pretty sure they are going to hell or purgatory, or at least gonna get one heck of a stern talking to when they get up there.
No samantha it is not the same. Allah was the name of the moon god the Arabs worshiped long before the mulsim religon came about.....their leader combined the two religions and then put his spin on it. Not the same at all. But I was in agreement with you anyway so why ya pickin?
"Where does it say that Jesus instructed us to allow a constitutional amendment to blasphemy Gods Ordainment of marriage?"
it doesn't. you might have noticed the bible preceded the constitution by quite a few years.
i would ask you, how certain are you that your marriage is biblical?
for example, are you the jealous type?
"Nothing prevents a man from taking on concubines in addition to the wife or wives he may already have (Gen 25:6, Judges 8:31, 2 Sam 5:13, 1 Kings 11:3, 1 Chron 3:9, 2 Chron 11:21, Dan 5:2-3)."
were you "experienced"?
"If a woman cannot be proven to be a virgin at the time of marriage, she shall be stoned (Deut 22:13-21)."
how much exactly, were you worth? did you account for inflation?
"The value of a woman might be approximately seven years� work (Gen 29:14-30)."
while we're on the subject, have you thought about restricting the right of interfaith couples to marry? that actually is in the bible:
"Inter-faith marriages are prohibited (Gen 24:3, 28:1, 28:6, Num 25:1-9, Ezra 9:12, Neh 10:30, 2 Cor 6:14). "
yes, i am much happier with a less traditional and less biblical marriage. much thanks to vaugn roste for this research:
http://www.samesexmarriage.ca/
eq...al_marriage.htm
Moderator just out of curiosity was that last comment Samantha's or the imposter? 
That is all you have? A zero understanding of Christianity and your limited list of your obvious education? I think thou dost protest too much. I am sorry you think my life should reflect your sad little admission of life. You that support your positions with half truths, unsubstantiated facts,hate-filled statements,vile name calling,belittling of those you need to sway,violent acts,and criminal acts are truly in need of help and lack the ability to logic. This is not going to get you what you want it is just setting the gay movement back. It is strikingly similar to the KKK,Weather Underground,the crazy people that blow up abortion clinics,and all the other nut job extreme groups out there.Please know this is totally directed at ST and b and anyone else that supports the crap these freaks that are behaving this way. Do yourself a favor Samantha and do not correct me if you do not know what the hell you are talking about.....get back on the porch until you either educate yourself or see a highly qualified shrink.
Nicole, that particular Samantha has been deleted as an imposter, not the real Samantha. The real Samantha is actually quite a nice lady.
End of comment thread.
Once again, as stated in the other thread, the point here was to illustrate the obscene violence perpetrated against those who exercise their peaceful right to vote as they see fit.
Violence and intimidation are crimes. The gays in these articles are criminals. End of story, end of thread, I will delete further posts.
Wow, I got a doppleganger? Sweet... lol
Do I even want to know what "I" said?
Nicole I only pick on people I like. =P =)
I thought something was fishy. Sorry.Samantha (the real one) I am soooo sorry I did not know and I can not keep up with everybody on here.ARGG my gut was telling me something just was not right. Please forgive me Samantha and Miss Beth.
No problem here, Nicole. I had to double/triple check the IP numbers but got it sorted out. Don't feel bad--this imposter thinks his nonsense is "cute" when it's actually asinine.
it just proves how evil all these faggots and dikes are. They need to be stopped, they are ruining this world.
all gays are criminals btw. evil, dirty bastards that never fit in.
Commenting by HaloScan
