Good post, Spunky. I just posted a little more on the political aspects of this case, from what I could gather. My Dutch isn't good enough to offer a real translation of what is being said...I can only the gist of the articles I cited, but they have some pretty strong accusations against the Belien's.
"Freedom of speech" isn't dealt with the same in Europe as it is here. Here we tend to believe that we should tolerate speech we don't like, even that which is inflammatory and just plain wrong, in order to protect the freedoms of us all. It isn't like that over there. This speaks more directly to Germany, but I had numerous discussions about free speech over there in light of the US allowance of the KKK to make its case in the public square, along with other clearly radical groups.
oh...one of the string of insults that I thought interesting is that the Belien's are "anti-Islam, pro-Israel, deeply Christian Neo-Cons." I'm not sure where that leads to arrest, but the fact seems self-explanatory to the author of the Knack article.
I'm so disappointed by Daryl Cobranchi's take on this issue that I've decided his blog has been taken over by his evil twin, Darren. I think he's so anti-HSLDA these days he can't see a real threat to freedom.
What I think is odd about this poor family's case is that it appears the dad's private schooling choice is in the penalty box, so to speak, due to the mom's public political position. That's creepy and should be challenged by principled human rights advocates.
I can understand the point of not wanting to comment, or warning about making too many comments about something we really know little about...but saying it is all some sort of artificial, trumped up case to strike fear into the hearts of homeschoolers is in itself an opinion expressed without knowledge of all the facts in the case.
We don't know anyone's motivations. We only know what is reported to have happened.
Mr. Belien said:
"Europeans have foolishly replaced God by the State as the one on whom they rely to take care of all their needs from cradle to grave. The religious vacuum has led to a demographic vacuum, because those who lose faith in God lose faith in the future as well. A civilization that has created a religious and a demographic vacuum is bound to perish."
Absolutely true and a warning to those in the States. We are not too far behind in this philosophy ourselves.
Fascinating. Truly. And here I stopped in just to say "hi" to another Michigan homeschooler!
I don't believe I ever said that the Belien's situation was trumped up by Farris. They just are playing the same song (i.e., the UN is a threat to homeschooling.) It may be in Belgium for all any of us knows. It's not here in the U.S. (Farris' fearmongering notwithstanding).
I stand by my conviction that until the HE community (not a single blogger) in Belgium requests our assistance, we should, to use Valerie's phrase, BUTT OUT.
Daryl, Is what happens in the international community worth our attention?
Honestly? Not really. Do we not have enough trouble fighting our own battles with educrats here? Why would you want to go getting involved in a situation about which you know almost nothing save one blogger's opinion?
If the Belgian HE community needs our help, I'm sure they can find us to ask.
So why are you blogging about it but telling others not to?
Just a point of clarification...I have no delusions that my blog assists Belgian homeschoolers in the least. My audience is not Belgian homeschoolers. My blog is largely my space to share my opinion on any matter I find interesting with anyone who cares to read it. I would hope some would find it interesting or thought provoking, but my blog would be pretty much the same without an audience.
Second, I don't know that we can judge Belgian reaction by looking at Technorati or blogs in general. Blogging (and public dissent) is a far different thing there than it is here.
Third, it is an illustration of what could potentially happen here if we were to follow certain trends in our culture. I do believe the homeschool movement is too organized for it to take the full effect in this country, but I am not so naive as to say "never."
Also, as a general principle, I would think that a person remains innocent until proven guilty. As a general principle, the whole notion of a division of government devoted to "the suppression of racism" is a bit strange. As a general principle, I favor limited government involvement in a parent's right to educate.
The problem is that the UN comes up with all sorts of nice sounding resolutions that nobody really understands and that a nation will look bad about if they don't sign. How can a nation say no to signing a resolution about the rights of children? And probably most countries have little intention of actually following through on the resolutions. But eventually someone demands the resolution be followed, and a wacky interpretation of the resolution be obeyed, and activist judges enraptured with their own power decide a UN resolution takes precedence over national laws, constitutions and God's law.
(Please ignore the URL. It is obsolete, but I can't figure out how to turn it off...)
Mr. Cobranchi, why must any principled human being wait until a community requests assistance? If -you- publicly cried out for help, should we all wait until your bridge club (or whatever) made a request?
Injustice is injustice, regardless of to whom or to how many it happens. And help is owed where help is needed, regardless of to whom or to how many need it. Or do we give justice only to the group and not to its members?
Another reason: have you ever noticed that these battles first happen in the socialist nations in Europe, and then somehow find their way overseas to America and Canada? The Supreme Court is very much "getting into" citing international law. What happens if socialist Europe, nation by nation, begins to surrender its sovereignty to the U.N.? (Given the globalist tendencies demonstrated by our federal government of late, I should think this would be of at least mild concern for you.)
Meanwhile, we should all be praying for the Beliens!
Very good points, Minky : )
And I really don't know how one can measure what Belgians think of this. Where do we find information? There is almost nothing on the topic other than occasional calls from a variety of online journals for the prosecution of the Belien's for their politically controversial views. We cannot very well judge by the number of Belgian bloggers...where are they on any topic? Blogging is very new there, and political topics aren't the "in" thing they are here.
And the government censors them. There is increasing talk in European nations as a whole about how to gain better control of the content of blogs...a situation not terribly conducive to ideals of free speech.
So why are you blogging about it but telling others not to?
I'm pointing out how it might be imprudent to embrace the Beliens without knowing the whole story. It would be rather difficult to do that without, you know, quoting what they write.
Ah. It wouild also be equally imprudent to totally "dis" the Beliens without knowing the whole story either, isn't it? So why should conservative bloggers be forced to "butt out" but "libertarians" are allowed freedom of speech?
I don't think this is a "libertarian" issue. The libertarians I know are in support of the Belien's, even those who are decidedly non-Christian. The fact that it appears to have more to do with the Belien's political affiliations than their homeschooling abilities makes it particularly unpalatable. Not that my little circle is representative of libertarian thought, but it was a libertarian journal that I got most of my info from to begin with : )
When I used the term libertarian, I was referring to Dary'ls blog. It is his postion that conservative homeschool bloggers should not be offering thoughts or opinions. His blog states it is a 'libertarian leaning edu-blog'.
Dana, I just posted from about the UK's Libertarian Alliance Report on this situation. You and others may find it helpful.
Sorry, Spunky...I don't think I was very clear. I gathered that was your point. I was just agreeing, I think. Actually, I don't remember what I was thinking, other than that I personally think this is a Daryl issue and not a libertarian one. I'll go check out your post now. I read the report prior to my post...it is kind of what prompted me to go ahead and throw my two cents in to begin with.
(maybe not what you are posting on, but something from them...it is linked in and at the bottom of my post : )
Actually, this report links to it, too:
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lap...cn/
educn038.pdf
oy, I wish I could edit my comments and you wouldn't get so many from me...my brain is not working at the moment, I meant the report you quote from links to the article I used in preparation for my post and that link goes to the article I used.
I like you Dana. Don't worry about anything!
Y'all are so funny. Have I taken ANY position on the Beliens case other than noting that the whole right side of the blogosphere (homeschool edition) seemed to be embracing them and accusing the Belgian authorities of being Nazis, getting ready to gas Jews, etc.?
I believe my position has been consistent. I personally don't know anything about HE in Belgium. I don't know their laws, their customs, history, or the people involved. I continue to believe it would be the height of arrogance to initiate some kind of letter-writing campaign. And, so far, HSLDA seems to agree.
Have you seen any eLerts from them? So, a question for Dana, Spunky, et al. Is this about homeschooling? Or is it about religion?
Your last post had a tone that seemed to indicate that these folks are not worth defending. That they are wackos that we all should be wary of.
My posting on this started with American bloggers accusing the Belgian government of being Nazis and ready to gas Jews (in our lifetime). I thought that just a bit over the top. And then the Beliens went and echoed (inadvertantly?) the sentiment.
So, yeah, they came across as cranks in that post. But even if they hadn't, my position would still be the same-- we don't know what we don't know. And since the HE community in Belgium doesn't seem to have a problem with the regulations, I don't see how it should be of any concern to American homeschoolers.
The U.N. is not going to take away our freedom to home educate. Heck, the U.N. can't even get America to pay its bills on time.
You see it your way. I see it mine. Time will tell. I'm patient.
I can't and don't speak for everyone. I have never drawn a comparison between anyone and Nazis or gassing Jews. Is it about homeschooling? Politics? Religion? The ability to speak freely? Does it matter? Supposedly, Belgian citizens have the right to all of those things. Traditionally, we assume a person is innocent until proven guilty. It seems, from causual observation, that the Belien's homeschooling is being drawn into question due to their political beliefs, not their ability to homeschool their children.
I understand that they are members of a banned party, but to me, that makes the whole thing a little more interesting. The concept of a banned party in a so-called liberal democracy is a little strange to Americans. I'm not seeking to reform Belgian politics, but that doesn't make the situation any less worthy of following.
Comment 1:
This is an interesting quote from the UN's Convention on the Rights of the Child.
"States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that the child is protected against all forms of discrimination or punishment on the basis of the status, activities, expressed opinions, or beliefs of the child's parents, legal guardians, or family members. "
Comment 2:
Prof. Kersey makes some clear statements about the connection between neo-Marxism on the European continent, parental rights, and home schooling.
Comment 3:
I wish that certain egalitarian feminist Christians would 1.) not be so naive or 2.) not act so naive about where their ideas are comeing from. 
That's all for now...
Donna L. Carlaw, the anti-radical
Let's see if my brand, new blog shows up in this post. Sorry, Spunky, to load you up with posts.
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