Two short points:

>> We already pay for our water supply; it's included in the council tax.

I don't believe for a minute that by introducing some kind of standalone water levy that your Council Tax bills will come down. So, what'll happen is that your Council Tax bills will become even more vague (if that's possible) but stay at the same level.

My other point doesn't make any sense now that I've re-thought it so I'll just go with this one.

> I don't believe for a minute that by introducing some kind of standalone water levy that your Council Tax bills will come down.

Oh, absolutely. And, if those were the grounds upon which the protestors were protesting, I'd've joined them by now. But they're not: their complaint is that water metering is simply inherently wrong for some reason. Plus, of course, the dreadlocked activist crowd aren't the kind of people to campaign for tax reductions — they want more stuff provided through the public purse, not less.


> So, what'll happen is that your Council Tax bills will become even more vague (if that's possible) but stay at the same level.

Don't be ridiculous. They'll go up.

> My other point doesn't make any sense now that I've re-thought it

I know that feeling. It's never stopped me hitting 'Submit'.

We already pay for our water supply; it's included in the council tax.

Believe it or not, we pay private water companies - not the state - for our water and sewage services, which have nothing to do with the council tax. Margaret Thatcher (pbuh) privatised the water boards in the 1980's. Do keep up....

Hi, Paul.

I live in Northern Ireland. Do keep up.

Not only does your water post not say that you were commenting solely on NI, but also your reference to the poll tax (which was never levied in NI) suggests that your post is a (confused) reference to the UK-wide water situation.

Btw, when your posts are NI-specific (or not, if you prefer), I suggest you flag that up.

pip, pip!!

Paul,

If there's anything you don't understand in one of my posts — such as what I mean when I say "over here" — you can always read the FAQ. That's what they're there for. At the very top of this site's front page, it says that I live "somewhere on the East coast of Northern Ireland". And, assuming you live in Britain, I have to ask you whether there's a big we-won't-pay anti-water-metering campaign making the headlines overe there at the moment, because I've not noticed it. If not, then why would you read my post, which says that there is such a campaign going on "over here", and assume that I must be talking ahout the place where you live, where there isn't? When I read a blog post which talks about how badly the blogger has been affected by the current forest fires, and there are no forest fires going on in the UK, I use a tiny bit of elementary thinking to conclude that he doesn't live here.

I am well aware that the Poll Tax was never levied in NI. However, what I was talking about was the attidudes of Socialists towards certain types of tax policy, and Socialists (and other flavours of politicos, come to that) don't feel that they need to live in a country and be affected by its government's policies in order to express an opinion about them. May I observe that British Socialists oppose Bush's tax cuts, or would that indicate to you that I'm confused about whether those tax cuts were introduced in the UK or the USA?

Finally, "the usual shouty bedreadlocked people with trestle tables in the street" roam around the country looking for left-wing causes to fight. Most of them have Southern English accents, yet here they are, campaigning in NI. They were campaigning against the closure of a local swimming pool round the corner from me when I lived in Glasgow, too. If English Socialists can campaign in Scotland and NI, I don't see why Northern Irish ones couldn't protest against the Poll Tax, as I'm sure they did.

Anyone else as confused as Paul by my post, or is it just him?

No, I wasn't confused by your post, as I knew you live in NI. However it was news to me that NI's water supply is still state-run, I always assumed that the privatisation was UK-wide. Obviously not so. (Why was NI excluded from Thatcher's privatisation in the 80's, I wonder?)
Perhaps Paul read the first few lines of your post, and got the issue confused with another issue, you see, coincidentally, there is also a similar scandal brewing over HERE (England) where two of the private water companies are going to (or trying to) introduce compulsory metering. Maybe Paul thought that that was what you were talking about, and hence he assumed you were from England.

> Why was NI excluded from Thatcher's privatisation in the 80's, I wonder?

Same reason NI was excluded from every other government scheme: pre-Major, British politicians just ignored NI in the hope that it would vanish.

And also, come to think of it, because it's difficult to sell shares in something that keeps getting blown up.


> there is also a similar scandal brewing over HERE (England) where two of the private water companies are going to (or trying to) introduce compulsory metering.

It's ridiculous, isn't it? Imagine a company trying the same thing with any substance other than water. Would a scandal brew?

Or, even better, imagine a company trying the opposite: say if Scottish Power were to propose replacing metering with a flat-rate charge. Since it would mean poor people's bills going up in order to subsidise the wealthier customers with the big houses and lots of lighting, which political group would be most likely to kick up a stink?

Scottish Water is also a state-run company. It's just the English and Welsh who have private-sector water provision, I think. They're not talking about metering it here - maybe because it's not as pressured a resource in Scotland as it is in England and Wales? I knew all that effing rain would have some use. But it rains all the time in NI too, no? And they're talking of introducing metering? Hmm.
Broadly in favour of metering, if that part of the rates (or whatever they call it now) is hived off and we just pay our water bills. But that's about as likely as finding a fish with nipples.
Regards
Mr Thingummy

> But it rains all the time in NI too, no?

May I just take this opportunity to mention how much I love this quote from Asterix In Britain:

— Does the fog often come down so quickly here?
— Good heavens, no. Only when it's not raining.

> government-provided water
What - they make it rain, do they?

Go read some Thomas Paine.

There's a difference between "provide" and "manufacture". If you come to my house and I give you a nice roast chicken dinner, I am providing you with chicken despite not being the inventor of the chicken. See how that works?

"It's ridiculous, isn't it? Imagine a company trying the same thing with any substance other than water. Would a scandal brew?"

Perhaps and perhaps not but I’m willing to give the breweries a try if they want to go to unmetered access.