The earliest mention of football hooliganism references some apprentices being on the sauce in Cheapside and rioting at football, I believe, some time in the 16th century.

Also, I seem to recall that the earliest incarnations of football were usually giant team games of "smear the queer" between rival villages. Nature of the game, actually. And also, how many people use the World Cup as a proxy for subdued nationalistic feelings?

Lots of people use cricket as a proxy for nationalistic feelings, subdued or otherwise. In fact, in many parts of the world, the whole point of cricket is for the natives to beat the British Empire at their own game. Yet they don't get violent.

The earliest incarnations of football are also the forerunners of rugby and American football and Australian football and Gaelic football, none of which have the violence problems.

Don't forget the howls of outrage when one tanked up Basque fella gave Lance Armstrong the finger! The beast!

Could be that the English like to fight when they get drunk, too.

But the problem isn't the English. The problem is football fans. English fans of every other sport get drunk and don't start riots.

Apples & Pears.

The way the games move round means that fans tend to base themselves in one city then travel to their teams games. There'll be fans from all over the place everywhere. So, no it isn't just England fans (which is what the police said anyway).

We're not talking just about a sporting event either. Fans aren't turning up and going home. They're there for the duration. So what we have is a large number of young men from across the world, on holiday, watching football and drinking until they're out of their minds. Hey, as the saying goes, you never get a fight in church.

All true, Jon, yes. However, two things: the same can be said of other events such as the cricket or rugby world cups or, of course, the Olympics, but they don't have the thuggery problem. Secondly, football still has the hooliganism when it's a local match that lasts one afternoon only.

DIfferent demographic though, init ? Sure, young men go bananas where football is involved, but I'm not convinced most of them spend Friday night in with a good book anyway. They're horrible in Germany,. they're horrible back home, and - to listen to the average teacher - they're even horrible when they're 14 and sober.

Come to think of it, the exception could prove the rule here - the western terrace at Headingley is consitently the craziest in British cricket, and the one with the most footballey demographic.

OT, but since you mentioned it Mark, the problem with the Tour D'France wasn't the hollies, it was the role of those who should know better in stoking them up. Footy commentators are often mocked for their 'he'll be very disappointed when he sees that on the video later' style of speaking, but at least it's understandable that they eschew blood and thunder rhetoric

...although none of that last paragraph should be taken to mean that listening to Motson isn't like hearing nails dragged down a blackboard.