Or is it just a case of the media *gasp* calling it like it is?
Bush was the first to say no photos of the caskets arriving home.
Harper was the second.
If this policy was SOP worldwide, and they mentioned Bush, then you'd have a point regarding the media, but Bush was the first to establish this policy, and Harper the second. The connection is obvious. And it's also part of the story.
You don't like your guy getting lumped in with Bush? The solution is simple. Tell Fearless Leader to stop acting like Bush.
Actually it was Bill Clinton who enforced the protocol of allowing the returning casket ceremony as being a private event for the mourning families.
The media have always been ghouls, their dictum is:
"If it bleeds, it leads."
Why not do something creative and interview those serving in Afghanistan, who are sucking it up and soldiering on in spite of the losses.
How about in depth analysis of why Canada sent forces there in the first place?
Soldiers die in war, no shit shinola! This is one of few professions that potentially require one to sacrifice one's life in the line of duty.
Policeman/fireman would be another example.
When bullets, rockets or IEDs go off the reality is that someone may be, despite all normal human and military caution, still be in harms way. It is the nature of managing risk in a hostile environment. Most normal people "get it" when viewing the news. What they don't get is a reasoned historical rationale presented in an intelligent manner.
But if one is the media, looking for ratings and advertising dollars, the drive is for the 15 second sound bite and no analysis. They have to do a little better than a video version of 'drive by shooting' to engage the intelligent viewer. If they are going to start calling it "Canada's Iraq" maybe they should have been paying more attention when the Parliamentary debates were on when the LIEBerals were debating sending them there in the first place.
Oh and while the media is at it, how about scrutinizing the absolute wall of money the LIEberals were sending our CF, so they had top notch equipment, like the fabled Iltis jeep, whom Gen. Mackenzie (ret) referred to as a "piece of shit". Or 40 year old helicopters, or 40 year old Hercules ready to fall out of the sky?
What is it in the anthem to "stand on guard for thee"? Yeah well the media and the populace went to sleep. The Libs didn't spend where they should have, and now instead of a robust well outfitted CF, we have some near metal fatigued rubbish ready for the scrap yard, still clinging to the odd updraft.
It got me pissed off enough to email the ex-Prime Minister Paul Martin and demand that they at least get some equipment that deflects mine blasts properly instead of having extra body bags coming home.
As far as I am concerned it is pretty piss poor that you have to shame the CFs political masters into buying equipment. If a few of your soldiers have to die, then never let it be for lack of proper equipment.
If the media had any brains, they would have been hounding the LIEberals on their equipment replacement cycle years ago.
Instead you get vacant videos, when the pulse is gone. Ostensibly the media still has a pulse, but the brainwave activity seems to be flatlining. But boy did we get a lot of media coverage of "soldiers with guns, in your streets, in Canada" bullshit during the election.
We saw precious little media scrutiny of CF funding levels, troop numbers, equipment purchases. Nah, don't scrutinize policy, get the sound bite; that's reporting the news.
Oh spare me!
Perhaps jdave34 can explain whether h
I've been watching this debate on a number of different blogs and it is guys like jdave who piss me off royally. How about this jdave. If you happen to be so unlucky as to have someone from your family killed in an accident, why don't you run to the nearest media outlet and let them stick a mike in your face. Nothing like seeing the crying faces of the dead soldiers kids on TV, or a grieving wife.
I am in the military, blogging from Kandahar. My comment to you is f---off. The last thing that I'd want is my wife and kids seen across the country if I am unfortunate enough to run into harm's way. This is not a media event, but a very private time for the friends and family of those who have died while serving their country.
Each of us has voluntarily signed on the line, even to put ourselves in harm's way. But I sure in the hell didn't sign up to give the Liberals or anti-Bushites some type of propaganda item as the result of my death. And trust me every soldier that I've spoken to over here feels exactly the same.
You type of people make me sick.
Ed the Hun
There is no need for the media to be there.
The soldiers died. We know they died. It is all anyone has been talking about for the last few days (and praying for the families I hope as well).
We do not need to put the grieving family on display. The media are only pissed because they've lost a ghoulish photo-op.
I cannot hold the opposition parties in lower esteem...to politicize these soldiers' deaths for their own gain is inhuman. Their actions of the past few days shows us what they truly think of our soldiers and their families...political pawns.
Ed:
Thanks for putting yourself on the line for me. Seriously, it's much appreciated.
Having said that, nobody's talking about putting a mike in the face of a grieving widow. We're talking about a photo of the coffin being carried from the plane. I don't think it's wrong for people to be reminded of the ultimate cost of war.
As far as providing material for the anti-Bushites, don't worry about it. Bush does a fine job of that on his own. What you fail to understand is that those of us on the left support you. We don't want any of our or our allies' soldiers to die needlessly. That is why we oppose the war.
you can tell me to fuck off, and I may well make you sick, but you sir, continue to make me proud. I admire and respect every last one of our men in uniform. You do a difficult (nearly impossible) job, and you do it with diligence, grace and class. keep up the great work.
And by the way, fuck off yourself!
I hope you know I'm kidding.
jdave,
Here is the problem with your position (what you would describe as the left). Whose sacrifice is it? Yours? Nope. It is mine and those that are closest to me. Tell me what does seeing the coffin tell you? That war is dangerous? That the sacrifice isn't worth it? That is a political decision whether we should be here or not. And we follow our political leaders, even when they do not act in what I would describe as our (military's) best interest. Do you want to know what is funny? We do not have helicopters that we can bring to this country to transport our soldiers (as well as our wounded)? But the Dutch do. In fact they are flying the Chinooks that we sold them back during the days of our political masters, downsizing our force. Kind of ironic.
On a personal note, do I think that the sacrifice is worth it. Up. Why? Because all that you have to do is go to Kabul and see the squalor. We are sending troops everyday into mountainous villages where the illiteracy rate approaches 100%. Little food, no medicine and not even the opportunity to improve their lot in life (and if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be a female, no right to be educated or to work or to be seen in public (without a bkurka(sp)). All that you have to do is look in the faces of the kids when you can give them a pencil and a colouring book to see their gratitude and the well-wishes of the elders when we help to dig them a well (nope, we don't dig them, we protect the NGO's from Taliban attacks -- the Taliban will kill anyone who tries and helps the Afghans since they don't want to lose their hold on the power that they have over the peasants, since they are like the 'godfather'. Do as you are told and you will be allowed to live. Disobey and you or someone from your family will disappear).
Nope jdave, when I leave this country a number of months from now, I will know that I made a difference. And almost every soldier here will agree. We are doing this because our government told us and because we know that we are helping to change the future of this country. Would my family see my death to this as a 'reasonable' tradeoff? Of course not.
But please, do not tell me that seeing coffins brings the war home. NOT EVEN CLOSE. You want to bring the war home, try to help these people or help my family or my fellow soldiers' families to get by while we are over here taking care of business.
There is only one reason to want to see coffins on TV. And that is for political or ideological reasons. None other.
EdtheHun
The media is what it is: they are looking for a way to whack PM Harper over recent PMO-PPG battles.
Having said that, I find the Harper PMO's capacity to turn what should be a positive media story into a total disaster absolutely amazing.
Consider the following way this could have been handled:
1. Harper orders a dawn-to-dusk lowering of the Peace Tower flag immediately on hearing of the deaths.
2. Harper visits Trenton to meet the caskets when they return home. The media is not allowed, but with the families' permission, DND releases still photographs of the airport ceremony.
3. Harper makes a brief sombre statement in the House, or at DND HQ.
Instead, we now have a 2-3 day story that is only going to get worse. In one swoop, the Harper PMO has succeeded in uniting the Liberals, NDP, and perhaps even the Bloc, besides providing tonnes of material for editorial writers and press mavens.
The response to the death of soldiers cannot be the stale, sterile language of process and procedures.
It has to be emotion and empathy.
If Harper wants a majority government in the future, he needs to understand that. Soon.
Ed:
I'm a little confused, because you seem to think that I don't support our troops being in Afghanistan. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know what a great job you guys are all doing, and I it's all the more impressive considering the piss-poor equipment you've been provided.
It's like I've always said: pound for pound, the best trained hardest working soldiers in the world wear the maple leaf.
As far as the coffins go, you're 100% right. It doesn't bring it any closer to home. But speaking only for myself, I want my future children to see those coffins coming off the plane. I want them to ask me about them so that I can say "Those are the greatest heroes this country has, and that coffin is a symbol of how much they love our country, and how far they're willing to go to protect it, and us.
cb - here's the problem - none of that has anything to do with how best to treat the deaths of our soldiers overseas.
I look at this not as a political issue at all, because it shouldn't be one. But the media sees it only as political, because the yahoos from the last 13 years did exactly that. They politicized the issue of the deaths of our soldiers, and they should be ashamed of that fact.
I'm proud of our current government for having the respect for our soldiers to not politicize this situation. The people who disagree with how the government is handling their deaths are wrong. No ifs, ands or buts. They're just wrong.
jdave,
Then you would do everyone of us the greatest service come Nov 11 to take yourself and your family to the nearest Remembrance Day ceremony and pay respect to all those that have died in the service of our country. And after the ceremony take some time and go to the nearest Legion and by a vet a drink and listen to his stories about the war(s). If you did that then I would suggest that you will be paying the utmost and highest respect to those people who have died in that service. The coffins contain bodies. The cenitaph will have a nominal roll of all of those who have died in service to the country throughout all of the wars that we have sent troops.
Because what I have seen happen in Canada is that Nov 11 is just another 'day off' and the lowering of the flag now is supposed to make up that. I'm in the military and let me tell you it is at the point that we don't even know why the flag is at half mast anymore.
It is my opinion and most of those that I know that serve that we should follow our traditions (being that the military is a HUGE proponent of traditions). That is what we would like.
EdtheHun
Ed, please send me an email:
email@stephentaylor.ca
First of all, I would like the thank EdtheHun. Thank you very much for what you are doing.
Now what I would like to point out what 'jdave' said: "what you fail to understand is that those of us on the left support you. We don't want any of our or our allies' soldiers to die needlessly. That is why we oppose the war."
Later 'jdave' said: "I'm a little confused, because you seem to think that I don't support our troops being in Afghanistan. Nothing could be further from the truth."
Hmmm, I wonder why Ed or anyone else would believe you do not support the troops being in Afghanistan.
Sorry Downey, but there's no contradiction.
Neither I, nor anyone I have spoken to personally has any problems with our troops trying to bring peace and order to Afghanistan.
When I spoke of opposing the war, I meant Iraq, or any war that is started for no good reason.
I won't support sending our troops to die needlessly, but if my country is threatened or if innocent and helpless people are threatened abroad, and military intervention is required, well then there's no better team on Earth than Canada's military and I'll cheer them on every step of the way.
Funny how all the television news stories about being shut out of Trenton feature footage of the "ramp ceremony" in Kandahar yesterday.
Do you think they get the irony in the newsrooms?
This is a great idea, Stephen. It'll make a handy reference to track the bushification of Harper.
The Bushification of Harper...what a ludicrous statement...
It shows the shallowness of the the Left's ammunition...
Find a bogeyman and try to pair it with the PM they fear...
Luckily most Canadian voters are coming out of their slumber and recognising the Left for what they are...
Bereft of ideas and integrity...
Stephen, your final question hits the nail right on the head.
It's become obvious that likening Harper to Bush at every possible opportunity will be one of the media's tacks in their playbook in the "war" with the Harper PMO.
And don't for one minute think that the comparisons will be limited to military policy. Any conservative policy that bears any resemblance to American policy (especially if Bush is the author of said policy) will be trumpeted as such by our media. It's already happening with the idea of 10 year passports and "God Bless Canada".
cb
thanks for the political lesson. But did you ever consider that harper does not want to play politics with these deaths? you gave a great political apporach...but is it the right one? why?
Ed:
Its interesting, I come from a military family, my husband is military and his family is military. The concensus among the family and here on base is that the non-lowering of the flag, and a media ban is a way to help people forget the real sacrifice that you are currently trying to make. That makes a mockery of your mission and your life. Its sad to say, but seeing a body coming home and seeing the grief of the family brings home the fact that these are real dangers, and real sacrifices being made for our country and our freedom.
I agree that the media is too busy focusing on the "death" aspect, when perhaps they should be investigating why we are there, reporting on the good we are doing, the missions being accomplished and what needs to change.
THe public MUST be made aware of deaths, must be made aware about equipment malfunctions, supply fubars and other issues that make your jobs more difficult than it has to be.
I also want to say that I hope your family is holding up well and that you come home safe.
eastern Capitalist/Mat Siscoe: I have considered that Mr. Harper may not wish to play politics with the deaths of the four soldiers in Afghanistan, and I have rejected it.
Every decision of the PM is political - it has to be, by definition, and more importantly, it almost always will be perceived (and packaged by the media/opposition) as such.
I do not know if my suggestions above represent a "great political approach". They do attempt to achieve three things: first, the lowering of the flag for half a day represents a nation's solidarity with the fallen. Second, the PM's personal touch at Trenton shows that he is not afraid to be with the soldiers, regardless of the circumstances. Third, the proposed sequencing turns a tragic event into a reasonably powerful visual affirmation of the humanity, empathy, and sensitivity of the PM (and his government).
Politics is not just about process and policies. It is about making a personal connection with the voters, and sustaining it over the course of a mandate.
"I do not know if my suggestions above represent a "great political approach". They do attempt to achieve three things: first, the lowering of the flag for half a day represents a nation's solidarity with the fallen. Second, the PM's personal touch at Trenton shows that he is not afraid to be with the soldiers, regardless of the circumstances. Third, the proposed sequencing turns a tragic event into a reasonably powerful visual affirmation of the humanity, empathy, and sensitivity of the PM (and his government)."
Fair enough. So long as we use that reasoning to apply it to other war chapters in our history. Therefore, King had no solidarity for the dead troops in Europe in the 40's, the country did'nt show "solidarity" during the Korean War, Trudeau, Pearson and Diefenbaker were insensitive twoards the deaths of Canadian troops under UN control in the 60's 70 and 80's. Mulroney and Chretien can also be added to that list in the 90's. As none of these men took the decision to "lower the flag" whenever a death in the military occured up until a few years ago.
I'm sorry, but that line of reasoning falls wayyyyy to short.
EdtheHun
Thanks for putting yourself in harms way for me and my family.
My brother was killed in the service during peace time 25 years ago. I agree with your words here.
Ed the Hun, thanks so much for your sacrifice, and for sharing your story. You've really opened my eyes.
I will definitely be attending the next Remembrance Day ceremony. God bless you in Kandahar.
What we are witnessing from the Liberals and NDP is:
NECRO-POLITICS
.. all to gain political advantage over the fallen Canadian soldiers.
To all people who send their best wishes (regardless of political or ideological background), thanks. I'm not blogging to get a pat on the back, but thanks anyway. In my opinion if anyone deserves a pat on the back it is my wife and two kids. My wife for agreeing (again) to live her life without me there to help out (I do all of the cooking by the way), while trying to have a career of her own and my two kids, one who will graduate this year without me being able to attend and the other who just misses her dad.
My wife once told me that it wasn't the soldiers who deserved a medal, but the family. I couldn't and can't argue. So again thanks.
We soldiers, generally, believe that the average person who buys a double-double every day on the way to work, does support us as we try to do our job. The decisions as to why we are here are outside of us. All that we ask is that when we get sent here, is not to have our hands tied behind our backs (Rwanda) and to have the right kind of and enough equipment to do that job. None of us have death wishes and we all want to live through these experiences to get home again. But we do understand there are risks and will accept reasonable risk. But risk that arises because of budgetary problems or personal pressures that arise from having to go again and again we resent (I know a guy who was in Bosnia 4 times in 7 years. Believe it or not he is still married. To the same woman).
We are not the Americans or the British or the French or the Chinese with enough money and/or equipment to be able to fight the fight anywhere around the globe. While every one of us wishes that we had access to all of that equipment we know that isn't reasonable or possible. Give us enough good equipment so that the risk are minimized as much as possible. If we have that then most of us serving will fade into the background not to be seen or heard from. Which is where we are supposed to be. In life and in death, except for Remembrance Day, when in every soldier's mind, there can be no excuse for the public and nation's citizenery for not attending the ceremonies which do recognize the sacrifices of those who have died supporting the causes that our government has sent us to deal with.
Then, ladies and gentlemen, us soldiers expect you to take the day to remember those Canadians who died in service. No matter which war or peacekeeping mission they died on. There is no reason that Remembrance Day ceremonies across Canada shouldn't be bigger than any Santa's Day parade.
EdtheHun
Did anyone watch the National on CBC this evening (the 25th) where they had an item in which the reporter said that at previous repatriations the press was allowed to set up at a "respectful distance"? Did anyone notice that as the reporter said "respectful" the image turned to show that of grieving families? They either have no sense of irony or no shame or neither. It's exactly that kind of disrespectful coverage that probably brought about this new policy in the first place. I happen to think an outright ban is overkill. The cameras could be placed so as to afford them a view of the coffins exiting the plane but an honour guard could be used to screen the view of the families by the hearse(s).
I'm in full agreement with everything that EdtheHun has stated above. In addition to doing Canadians and the entire world a genuinely fantastic service by assisting in the reconstruction and democratization of Afghanistan, he has taken the time to illustrate the more personal, human, side of what it means to be a soldier fighting for a cause that is greater than any one person. It is commendable in the highest order, and I share his sentiments wholeheartedly.
I find it absolutely shameful the manner in which the media and opposition parties are behaving in this manner. It started with Jane Taber on Question Period on Sunday scolding the Conservatives, saying, "It doesn't take that much effort to lower a flag," and it has mushroomed from there. It is not a case of failed "effort" or disrespect or any of the other absurd and inappropriate charges being lobbed at the Prime Minister for his decision. Is it a tragedy that we have lost four young men in the midst of combat? Absolutely. But to suggest that Canadians aren't really getting the full impact of their deaths because we don't get to the see the repatriation ceremony, after the actual fact has been replayed endlessly for days by every media outlet in the country, is nothing short of blatant stupidity and an insult to every Canadian and every Canadian soldier. We know what has happened, we feel it in our hearts; having the flags at half-mast and seeing flag-draped coffins, in my opinion, only contributes to the depressing feeling and damages the overall national will to fight.
This conflict in Afghanistan is going to flare up, the experts have been predicting a spring offensive by the Taliban insurgency for months. Now it's happening, and we're only seeing the opening salvos. I, and I'm sure most Canadians, don't want to have to walk past half-drawn flags every day and be bombarded with images of grieving families at what really should be a private ceremony on a regular basis. These things have an effect on our psyches, and support for this conflict is soft enough as it is. Having so many visceral images, piled on top of the sad reality that Canadians are losing their lives in this right and just cause, will only contribute to Canada's own version of the Vietnam Syndrome, and could result in many opposition groups demanding a preciptious withdrawal from Afghanistan before the end of our mandate and before the mission has been completed.
I'm personally embarrassed to see Canadian politicians using soldiers' lives and deaths as instruments to score political points against the Prime Minister. I take issue with what was said above; not all of the Prime Minister's actions are political. Being the head of government, most actions are an act of statecraft. They should be, anyways, but we've gotten far too comfortable with Liberal leaders who turn every single issue into a matter of political gamesmanship. Harper is setting out a government policy, not Conservative policy; th
I think most people are missing the point. If your adversarys can turn on Aljazeera and see the Canadian flag at half mast in the nations capital, what are they to think? Obviously, they would believe themselves to be winning the struggle. --- Why should we give aid and comfort to the enemy? Canada got through the darkest days of the second world war by "carrying on regardless" not by endless hand-wringing and second guessing. Canadians showed a steely resolve back then. We should show the same now.
John, right on! If we have that flag at half-mast all the time, the enemy will be encouraged to continue all the harder.
We need to help our soldiers like EdtheHun by demanding proper equipment for our guys and gals who are not just risking their lives, but also putting their own family's welfare at risk. We need to be supportive of them financially and emotionally. Let the media have their pity-party. We don't have to attend.
Ed, I will not just pray for you and your comrades, but also for all the affected families. God bless you all and keep you safe.
The media is just upset that they are being left out of something that they deem sexy... How does this story still have any legs?
Excellent move by Harper, by giving one less shell of ammo to twist public opinion. Shame on the left.
cb...your idea of what Harper 'should have done'describes none other than Paul Martin...he loved the camera,loved the sombre looks for the impact and didn't give a darn about the living soldiers.He didn't even want our soldiers in our streets..in Canada...I'm not making this up.
so much for the story behind the four fallen soldiers...
Truth is the media couldn't be bothered covering the war in Afganistan up until Harper had the courage to go in there himself.
Vicki - You miss the point.
Statecraft is about soulcraft. It is not a graduate seminar, with a bunch of grad students chewing the cud over some esoteric new policy they have just discovered.
PM Harper needs to understand - as I am quite sure he is capable of doing - that he cannot be perceived as a calculating automaton who is devoid of feeling and emotion. The "fallen-soldiers" decision has to be among the most detached decisions that I have watched a politican make in the past 20 years. (Aside: Blaming the Comms. Dir. for this screw-up has to rank as the stupidest pass-the-buck move by senior PMO staff in recent memory.)
Mr. Harper needs to spend the summer thinking about his PMO staff.
He needs to decide whether he wants toadies and sycophants around him who will jump up and down and wave pom-poms everytime he steps into the room, or persons of stature who will have the fortitude to tell him: "Mr. Prime Minister, I have listened to your plan for [....], and I believe that is the dumbest idea I have heard all day. This is what I would recommend instead ...".
And then he has to decide whether he feels secure enough to accept such criticism.
I am not sure he is there yet, but I hope he gets there before it is too late.
