Talking True Crime
Kelly, Thank you for attempting to respond to my question about how you know whether Chris is the best in the nation at what he does. Your answer isn't what I was expecting. I was hoping that you had expertise in the field yourself. The statement that he turned someone's computer into a paperweight doesn't sound right to me. It sounds neat and cool and all that but does not sound like reality. It immediately raises several questions in my mind about the truth of that occurrence. I am not questioning your truthfulness. I am questioning whether he really did that. Even from an untechnical standpoint, the story raises an immediate question.
I am not an advanced geek. I am only an amateur geek. But I am around computers enough and I know enough to be able to see if someone is good at something or not as good as I expect them to be. From what I can see online, CV is not as good as I would expect someone to be who is the best in the nation at anything computer related.
Now if someone from Navigant wants to jump in here and sing CV's praises, I think we'd all love to hear from him or her.
tried posting this before crimeblog.us went down, so here goes again.
I wonder what KV's seatbelt will reveal? SunTimes photo appears to show her w/o her seatbelt on, consistent with CV's theory of KV as the shooter. However, if CV shot her (and it seems the simplest explanation so far) it's likely he would have had to unbuckle her belt afterward to make it look like she was the shooter, in which case there might likely be blood spatter and/or gunshot residue on her seatbelt that wouldn't fit CV's theory. It's hard to imagine CV taking the time to make KV take her seatbelt off before shooting her. Of course it's possible she wasn't wearing her seatbelt, but given the kids were apparently wearing theirs it seems likely she would have been wearing hers given what we know about her as being overcautious and likely wanting to set a good example for the kids. Also, this could have been a detail that CV overlooked in his planning and might trip him up even if he tried to wipe the belt down. Thoughts?
Will all of the posts come back?
I agree with Ginny. I posted a long post about the CV as "top in the field" of computer security but it may have been lost in the switchover. I work in the field and while I have nevery worked with CV I have associates who have. I am sure he is competent consultant that brings value to his employers customers, but that does not make him top in his field. I have not run accross him as a keynote speaker at industry events, of which I attend all the major ones, nor can I find evidence of scholarly writings or reseach attributed to him with a cursery search. All thses are things I would expect to find from somebody "top in his field". He mentions a couple of non-major event presentations on his website from two years ago. I can find no evidence if him holding any of the common computer security certifications nor any academic research or papers. His computer parlor tricks are not convencing at all. In fact to do such damage to another computer, if he even did, is a big no-no amoung professionals in the industy. Ingegrity is key if you want work. I am sure he is a bright guy who like I said provides a valuable service to his employers customers. Otherwise he would not be employed. But let's not overdo it.
Curious327: Do you mean all comments?
Not unless I can figure out a way to bring them over, and at the moment, I can't. Not many providers seem to like the idea of going FROM Wordpress to Blogspot.
Rats, sorry about that.
Can you bring them in as a string of text?
Not at the moment, and I apologize for that. I have been trying to figure out a way to essentially port all of CrimeBlog.US (comments included) to another independent blog URL. So far, I've been unsuccessful. If I do succeed, I'll let everyone know. It would still be wordpress, and therefore the comments would come along, too.
Steve
http://cbs2chicago.com/
westsubur..._170193202.html
some interesting info on this story from last night cbs news w/ associated videos
- this says CV flagged down the passerby and was muttering "shot my kids"
- story also said a recent "confession" by CV had angered his wife
NBC just reported that several items were just taken from the home after I.S.P obtained search warrant. Items included, fax machine, VHS tape, printer, I think 3 other computers and a cable box. Looks like they are definitely looking for the TV show connection from a few weeks okay that was a very similar story line. I forget the name of the show.
NBC also reports LE conducting toxicology reports on KV and kids to test for drugs or sedatives.
http://tinyurl.com/27tzyh
NBC5.com
More
Images: Husband: Wife Killed Their Kids, Self
BREAKING NEWS: Police Search Vaughn Home
POSTED: 4:37 pm CDT June 20, 2007
UPDATED: 5:11 pm CDT June 20, 2007
OSWEGO, Ill. -- Police have obtained a search warrant for the home of Christopher Vaughn, whose wife and three children were shot to death last week, NBC5's Amy Jacobson reported.
State police got the warrant to search the family's Oswego home as Vaughn was in the St. Louis area for his family's funeral.
Images: Police Search Vaughn Home
Kimberly Vaughn and her three children were found shot to death in a sport utility vehicle last week. Christopher Vaughn was shot in the leg but survived.
Four police investigators were in the home for several hours on Wednesday, Jacobson reported. They removed three computers, a keypad, three VHS tapes, a fax machine, a printer and what looked like a cable box. The items were placed in an unmarked police car that had been waiting outside the home and taken away.
Authorities were also running toxicology tests on Kimberly Vaughn and the three children to determine if they were given any sedatives or drugs prior to the shooting, Jacobson reported.
Police have said Christopher Vaughn is not a suspect in the deaths.
Watch NBC5 and refresh this page for updates on this developing story.
Previous Stories:
June 20, 2007: Oswego Man Goes To Missouri For Family's Funerals
June 18, 2007: Chris Vaughn Spends Father's Day With Police
Copyright 2007 by NBC5.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
I'm glad that the news coverage is ramping up. This is about to get real interesting.
Kim:
The TV show was Law and Order. Never have seen it though.
I don't recall seeing any of these pictures before. NBC5.com has a bunch more from the crime scene. Take a look. Obviously, they're taking the lead on this story, rather than ABC7 or CBS2
When I review recently posted pictures of the location where the murders occurred and the Google Earth images, the crime scene is a long way from the Bluff Rd exit. Check the link posted above - "They Pulled Off The Road". If you view the Satellite version you can see that south on Frantage Rd there is a Cell Phone tower casting a shadow. This is the same location I see in the MSNBC photos. It is a location hidden by tall bushes and would be quite secluded. It also is a 'dead-end' drive for the cell phone station. Just the kind of place someone would park that didnt want to be seen.
BTW - I hope your Crimeblog gets fixed.
Steve... I know you're upset about the CrimeBlog.us snafu, but really the posts go quiker here. Or, maybe because there aren't 900 posts yet....
I don't usually get into this true crime stuff but THIS one has caught my ear.
Police have said Christopher Vaughn is not a suspect in the deaths.
That sounds like it comes from a Monty Python skit. Every single action taken by the police, as described in the rest of the article, indicate he is a suspect.
Hard to believe CV would leave any evidence on the family computers given his job, but more interesting is whether they'll find anything "attributed" to KV...this is definitely heating up.
I also wanted to add that the location on Frontage is a long way from the re-entry to I-55. Why not stay on Bluff Rd. and pull into the nice looknig housing tract? Clearly, the driver of the vehicle was 'looking' for a remote place to stop and not a quick place to check the luggage rack.
Oh happy day, there are new people posting - hopefully with fresh ideas and realistic comments!
Also hard to believe it took LE this long to search the Vaughn house - though you need probable cause to do so, which makes me wonder if they haven't uncovered something compelling from forensics?
Any thoughts on my seatbelt comment (#2) above?
Re: took this long to search V house. I thought I had read before that shortly after the deaths, they took "a computer" from the house. Could this be a subsequent search?
JJ? Too complicated for me. The kids were drugged and then shot. Mom was shot and for whatever reason was discovered with no seatbelt on. Dad shot the whole crew. Something going on in Mexico is my guess. Chick, drugs, money.
JJ. Yes, I thought that your seatbelt comment was excellent. If KV had taken her seatbelt off to shoot the gun, then then blood spatter, especially from the shot up under her chin, could have been on the portions of the seatbelt that are the shiny links that are coupled when the belt is fastened. Those portions would be enclosed and protected from any spatter when fastened. So if there is no spatter on them, that would be interesting. Not proof but consistent with the belt being fastened when she allegedly shot anyone, especially herself.
NBC also reported CV had a gun wound that looked like it grazed his left hand. I haven't heard of this wound before, only the shot to the thigh. Wonder how this shot occured? Where would his hand have been to only have been grazed?
One thing I wondered is how CV could make it look like the wife had committed suicide. If she were awake at the time, then wouldn't it be apparent that she had been trying to avoid being shot? IF she had been sedated, then that would explain how CV might have attempted to make it look like a suicide.
JJ, your observations about blood spatter on KV's seat belt are good. It seems almost certain that KV would have been wearing hers for the reasons you stated. Will be interesting to learn whether the seat belt was something that tripped CV up.
ceedee, I missed that but yes you are correct that police searched the home the day of the shooting (http://tinyurl.com/2feulo
), but only carried out one computer (perhaps KV's?). This would be a subsequent search...each warrant requires probable cause about the specific evidence LE expects to find and bring out.
I've read speculation that LE will make an arrest but are waiting until after the funerals are over. Does that seem plausible to anyone? If enought evidence was in wouldn't they make their move immediately? Just not certain what the procedure on something like this is.
Re: Huff's hosting challenges. It sucks that the former host hasn't been able to handle visitor capacity. Being able to read and post is a relief, as I like many others am obsessed with this case. One thing I would wish for in comments is software that numbers the comments for referring back to. But hey, at least we can read and post!
svelte, the drug/sedative theory is hard for me to swallow...too easy for LE to detect and if we're operating under the assumption (as I am) that CV planned this to look like KV went bonkers and arranged it to look like she killed herself there's no way he'd risk sedatives. As for your theory about another chick, Mexico, money etc. definitely has to be one of those to trigger this kind of crime.
Defense types: what do you make of today's developments (search of Vaughn house with computers, fax, video, etc., removed)?
RE: Brian posted "the location on Frontage is a long way from the re-entry to I-55." Brian, it is 407 yards to get back on 55, hardly a "long way".
elfwitch: I thought the same this week. But then I got thinking that if LE had really strong evidence against CV that they would arrest him strategically BEFORE the funeral. For drama, perhaps. If it does happen in 1-2 days, then their evidence must be very strong in order to pull him away from the funerals.
I have a feeling we are going to find out that this lady just snapped.
I think we get that story on either Sunday or Monday after the funerals.
The police raiding the place is probably to analyze evidence to prove to the public and every one that is going to find it hard to believe some normal looking person could just whack out like that.
I personally (as a father of 2 kids) find the hardest thing to believe is that if your wife is holding a gun and aims it at you and fires, sure you would be scared and maybe run, but you mean he wouldn't at least attempt to punch her in the face to slow her down (if the story is he was sitting when he got shot)then he runs to get help with his kids getting shot! Shame on that guy. I am sure that guy heard the shots. I'd rather be dead than live with that.
Someone on CrimeBlog.US -- on the other server -- remarked that CV looked amazingly relaxed, considering what he has been through, in the photo taken on the driveway of his parent's home where he is standing beside a Jeep wearing shorts. I looked up the photo and sure enough, he looks remarkably cheerful, appears to be smiling, and looks like a guy who is just getting set to go on a beer run.
Due to his line of work what if someone was after him and his family and that is the reason for the change in plans? What if he pulled off trying to loose someone. It wasn't brought up by him or anyone else, but maybe he can't talk.
Just another theory no one has thought of, but I think he is guilty.
CV has a profile at http://www.linkedin.com .
Chris Vaughn
Associate Director at Navigant Consulting's Discovery Services, Forensic Practice
You need to create a linkedin account to see CV's full profile.
No one has mentioned this theory, and I feel he is guilty, but... what if someone was after the family. Maybe someone was after him due to his business and they wanted to get him. Maybe that is why the quick change in plans to include the kids and why he pulled off the road, he was trying to loose someone following him. What if he can't talk about what the company was investigating or what happened.
Steve? I tried adding a comment on the open thread and got a message saying that my comment wsa awaiting moderation.
I can't see any "luggage straps" on top of that vehicle - only the hard case storage container, which doesn't appeared to be secured with straps.
JJ:
I think HE did it but if she did she could have drugged the kids as well and he might have thought they were just sleeping. After all it was between 2:30 and 5:30 AM. Nobody, even a youngster would just sit there and calmly stay seatbelted and watch the person next to them get shot multiple times.
Comments on posts going back to this morning:
1. Wearing the same clothes as the night before- this was mentioned in a couple of posts this morning. Everything supposedly normal up till 9 p.m. Kids go to bed. CV, for unknown reasons, decides to make this alleged confession. Finances, affair, who knows. They get into a serious discussion/argument lasting several hours. Serious enough to last a long time, but not heated enough to wake kids or neighbors. Maybe they don't sleep that night and make a decision- again for unknown reasons- to go to Springfield.
2. assume that's true- go back to the allegation that the person who made the 911 call stating that CV sounded drunk. Would that be consistent with being in shock alone or had he really been drinking?
3. If he had been drinking, was it before or after leaving Oswego? And could he have put booze in the luggage carrier and thats why he pulls into an obscure place. Maybe instead of or in addition to adjusting the luggage rack, he pulled off to pull alcohol out of the luggage rack where he consumed it without being in sight of any onlookers.
westlock,
I had looked at his Linkedin as well, that is how I figured out I had common associates, and we had a former common employer. I notice on the Navigant site they do not seem to list professionals below the title Director, I could not find associate directors. CV is not listed when you search for computer forensic experts from their Chicago office. They could have removed him to avoid snoopers and callers, but it dose give three other names all with Director or Managing Director titles. Somebody from there would have to explain their titles, but my guess is a associate director is a mid to high level technologist, but not necessarilly one of their resident "experts". Comment anyone?
Did not see any comment till now re being drunk! This is a first!
A friendly suggestion for focusing our discussion: we should carefully honor a distinction between (a) what *might* make sense of this tragedy and (b) what we have *actual evidence* for in this case. So far we have not even a shred of evidence for a killer outside the family, and the IL State Police (with no reason whatever to dissemble) have said that the killer isn't outside the family. We should also disregard neighbors' and family members' inability to imagine CV or KV as the killer. If we have historical crime evidence for anything, it's that such inability is notoriously unreliable. Our real predicament now is that our actual evidence is virtually nil; we don't even have a firm outline of a timeline involving the shootings. So, let's not allow imagination to outrun our actual evidence.
nwlogic,
They may have woken the kids if they argued that night, who knows.
And I don't believe it was reported that anyone (including CV) "sounded" drunk, but the passerby thought CV was drunk based on how CV was walking up to the passerby's vehicle. The passerby stopped anyways and let him in, and then saw his wound. It was also allegedly reported that CV started mumbling "shot kids" or something similar. Again, this is not fact as far as I know, but rather info reported hearsay from people that allegedly know the passerby gentleman.
-ss
If CV has another romantic interest and she is in the U.S. and doesn't come forward, is there ANY possibility that she would be considered an accessory to murder if he was charged with murder? Under the circumstances of her (assuming she exists) says nothing and it is discovered that he has been having an affair?
westlock,
It is common practice in the consulting type companies to have levels like that. And level does not in any way dictate knowledge or expertise, in ANY industry. As it's a consulting company, I am confident that title boils down to seniority and how much revenue you are responsible for generating. Salary is obviously also affected by title.
Looking at the titles, I would guess the hierarchy would go managing director -> director -> associate director
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Man...naging_Director
-ss
Here's the Channel 2 Chicago video about the search:
http://cbs2chicago.com/video?
id=...bbm.dayport.com
Once you're on, it's in the right-hand column.
ss- the original report I read said he was mumbling "shot kids" then " my wife shot my kids" .. like the first statement was caught by the listener mid-sentence.
Ginny- of course not. You can't charge someone as an accessory who had no knowledge of the crime.
So many sad, horrendous incidents happen every day in the US. It's the media that picks and chooses what to keep in the spotlight. Currently we have the poor, pregnant woman from Ohio that was 9 months pregnant that has "disappeared" from her home, with the only witness being her 2 1/2 year old son. The coverage is played on tv virtually every hour. Yet this incredible story of the Vaughn family tells us nothing of what is going on with the case. IMO, I truly believe that they are going over everything with a fine-tooth comb, and I sincerely believe that what was told to the authorities, is NOT going to coincide with what the husband claimed happened. As hundreds have speculated on other blogs, I agree that this woman did not commit the horrendous crime that we're currently lead to believe. Take a look at Dateline NBC, where there was a man who was "happily" married, took his wife for a romantic stroll on a secluded beach. Along comes a "robber" who shoots the woman numerous times, yet just shoots him husband in the shoulder with a superficial wound. It took a few months to solve the case, but in the end, HE WAS the GUY who KILLED her.
I just finished reading the book, "The Secret," and one of many messages they write about is, to stop reading newspapers and watching tv about negative stories... but damn, this story has me riveted to the point that I need to check the internet daily to see if there's been any new "news" about the case. I pray that the woman that's pregnant ends up being alive, and I pray for the true conspirator/killer of the Vaughn family is held accountable.
It Was Not Kimberly Vaughn. Period.
This guy's story "smells" about as truthful as Phil Spectors. Sometimes you just know bullshit when you hear it.
Does anyone think it is odd that CV is adjusting a luggage carrier on top of the car when the family was described as taking a "day trip" to a water park. Bathing suits were reportedly in the back of the SUV. We know from KV's mother that the couple were going on a trip of their own the following day. I think of luggage containers as being for long trips.
I personally believe that CV stopped the SUV between the two trees so no one could see him get out of the car, put a mask over his head and shoot each kid one time. Then he held KV down, placed the gun in her hand and shot her. Then he shot the kids several more times with KV holding the gun. After the shootings he walked away and hid the mask and gloves in some area near the scene of the crime. This would explain why each child was shot more than once. He was smart enough to know the angel the gun needed to be for each shot to come from KV's seat. Does anyone know which leg was shot, right or left?
Oh no! nwlogic found us. For those of you who haven't been going thru the last several days on The Other Blog... Beware. Whacky ideas will surely be addresed with nwlogic in the house.
Lisa--I thought the same thing about the pregnant woman story, and think that it is getting so much attention because of the Laci Peterson case. God help me, I feel badly for the poor woman, but as of now there is no body or victim; the baby has turned up safely. But the Vaughn story has four victims, three of them children, killed under extremely suspicious circumstances--and a father who is giving police information that doesn't ring true. It is a shocking and compelling story.
-ss is right on with the heirarchy.
All of our available evidence indicates that either CV or KV murdered their children. As for "Why?" or "Exactly when?", we can only speculate, and we should distinguish speculation from something based on evidence. Here's a puzzler: how does today's report of CV's confession to KV fit with the alleged trip to the waterpark or the alleged need to secure the luggage (carrier)? Did the alleged confession emerge during the alleged luggage stopover? Or, is the story that just KV's response to the earlier confession emerged during the stopover? Again, we can only speculate. Clearly we can't say *beyond a reasonable doubt* that KV murdered the children. Likewise, for CV. This situation of inadequate evidence will doubtless change within the next week. When it does, we'll know whether CV murdered the children or KV murdered the children. Meanwhile, I won't add speculation to horrifying tragedy.
Paul... Point well taken.
Good comment Kim. That would also fall in line with what radio guy said about details that would be disturbing once released. But if they had found a mask or any of those items, wouldnt they have arrested CV already? Why dont they have enough evidence to arrest him? Anything other than DNA, gun residue or bullet angles, the things they are waiting to be processed? This case is so bizzare with oddities that only say that CV must be involved. If he were, you would think he would have left something behind at the scene to warrant an arrest week later. The timeline he gives wouldnt allow time to dispose andor clean. If shots were heard earlier, maybe thats a clue that it did happen earlier. If it happened earlier, say 2:30, wouldnt there be a witness who might have seen the SUV off road? My opnion is simple. He did it. Arrest him with something....there must be something.
If you go to myfoxchicago.com and watch a news program of today, the reporter at the end states that CV told KV that he had had an affair with another woman. You have to wait until the very end of the report to hear him say that, and the link is choppy and doesn't play too nicely the time around (at least for me it didn't).
curious 327..thanks for the "kind" regard. Not sure why you think your deductive reasoning is so superior to everyone else's..but oh well.
there were published reports this afternoon that toxicology reports were being conducted on KV and the kids to determine if they were any traces of drugs in their system. I doubt there would be for the kids. Interesting question in regard to KV though- if they find any trace of a sleep medication, for example, would they assume CV gave it to her or she took it on her own volition? If CV allegedly confessed something that upset her enough to get her in an agitated state before they hit the road, might she have taken sleep medication to calm herself down?
Two other random thoughts unrelated to the outcome:
1 "Commander Sander"- it was reported in one of the MO papers that it was the nickname given to Cassandra because she organized games in the backyard and plays in the basement for her friends. What a terrific nickname for a kid. When so many kids (including my own) spend so much time playing video games or organized sports, a kid like that really stands out. What a tragedy her family and friends didn't get to see her grow up.
2. " You were all so nice" -written by one of the neighbor children at the makeshift memorial at the Vaughn house. In our post 9/11 world where we are a bit on edge, always busy, and our culture celebrates bad behavior, it's a nice reminder that random acts of kindness- to our family, friends, neighbors, and strangers- get noticed and appreciated- especially by kids.
In response to my own post above, a confession of adultery certainly isn't enough to set off a family slaughter, otherwise, the U.S. population would certainly be dwindling in comparison to current statistics.
I also find it curious that 3-4 computers were taken from the home. It sounds like definitely they're checking out things the children have been doing on-line, too. That also brings up the possibility of really dark family secrets which I eluded to in the thread which went down earlier today.
nwlogic - I understand your question of the sleep medication and how could one assume that CV gave it to KV as opposed to KV taking it herself...but why on earth would KV go forward with a trip AFTER CV confessed an affair? I truly do not see her saying "Oh, my goodness, you did what?! Well, let's put that aside and get up early and drive to the water park anyways, you silly little cheater, you. But, first, just so you know, I am very, very upset at your confession. Now, where are those sleeping pills." My concern now is if CV confessed something BEFORE the trip, then why would KV even agree to go? And also, why again would that moment, away from the main road, at precisely that moment, did KV snap, pick up a gun that by most accounts, did not like, and commit hary-kary.
Fox did report on the affair. It will be interesting to see where this woman is from and when and if she will be questioned. Maybe he told her that Wednesday night and didn't want to go on the "romantic" trip because he was already so detached. When she felt his detachment, she snapped. It's a possibility, but I still think that he did it.
The killings were obviously not done anywhere but where the SUV was found, and I doubt he committed the murders and then drove home (as has been speculated) as there was obvious blood splatter (as witnessed first-hand by the passerby who made the cell phone call for CV. It would have been obvious to other surrounding vehicles on the freeway and roadways if an SUV goes by and there's blood splattered on the windows.
Link to tonight's cbs2chicago.com report:
http://tinyurl.com/2puzla
Two vehicles worth of material removed from the house.
CV reported to be shot in left thigh and same bullet grazed left wrist according to a "source".
And reported to have confessed a relationship to KV prior to shootings.
Well, why on earth would CV confess while driving down the road, with his three beloved children in the back? My experience has been that when confessing an affair, there are better times to do it rather than while driving down the road, early in the morning, with your children strapped into the back seats. OH, and without a loaded gun within reach of the wife. Goodness. CV thinks that LE is really gonna buy that he confessed and she snapped? That would mean that she either heard the confession BEFORE the trip, and inexplicably went on the trip with a newly discovered cheating husband...OR, she heard the confession while driving down the road in the SUV, within earshot of the children. Neither scenario makes sense. My feeling is that he is clearly making up this "confession" as a way to show motive on her part. Nice try.
Could someone post the link to the aerial photo that shows the position KV was holding the gun??
MSNBC and NBC have both blocked out that half of the window on their websites.
Thanks in advance.
I don't believe there is a photo showing anybody "holding" a gun. Whoever told you that is mistaken.
It was discussed at length on the now down thread. Something about her thumb on the trigger.
I was skimming and didn't click on the link when I was reading earlier.
Darla,
your points are well taken. But the trip to Springfield looks confusing if he confessed after they started out. An intervening event is the only explanation for the trip to Springfield, since no one was aware of it as late as 9 p.m. that nite when KV talked to her sister. How many moms with 3 kids want to be told by their husbands late at nite- "hey, lets go for a 3 hour drive tomorrow to Springfield to a waterpark for the kids" and leave not too many hours later? No mom is going to go for that absent some intervening event to make everything look alright.
I did read something earlier about the aerial picture taken through the windshield of the SUV possibly showing a gun in KV's hand, but, I haven't been able to detect a gun based on what I have seen. It was on the Chicago Tribune website several days ago, and I am unable to find it again. But, I do think that if there was a gun in KV's hand, CV put it there...
I am not switching my opinion on who did the shooting. But for this post I am going to play devil's advocate. It's been mentioned (but I haven't checked a map to see routes and distances) that KV's parents live in Missouri. And some have asked in the thread prior to the CPU problems and the switching of the blog location why didn't CV and KV plan to continue to the grandparent's home if they were going as far as Springfield. (Since the grandparents were going to come and be with the kids anyway over the weekend.)
It occurred to me (as devil's advocate) that if CV and KV were having a meltdown after a discussion that had occurred at home, that they might then have decided to drive to KV's parents' home that night. And cancel the romantic getaway completely.
However, I would argue against this scenario because KV would have called her mother and told her she was coming. They had such a close relationship that she would have done that. And this suggestion doesn't explain the trip to the shooting range a couple of weeks earlier.
To be clearer about which photo I am referring to, it is an aerial photo. The one closest to the SUV and in front.
Whether a gun is shown or not, the only links I can find now have the image blacked out.
Thanks Darla!!
How do you make up a confession, Darla? The police would obviously ask CV who his alleged lover was and would interview her to substantiate it or discredit it.
nwlogic - well, I think that what I am getting at is that there really was no planned or unplanned trip to the water park...I think that CV told LE that story as a way of explaining a car load of family members. I think that the water park is a red herring. Saying that they were heading somewhere for a day of fun makes it look like, well, that he is a great dad who planned a day of fun. But, again, KV's mom didn't know about a water park, and I would bet that KV didn't know about a water park. I actually am a mom of 3 kids and as it stands, it is almost 10:00 p.m. right now. If my husband came into my office right now and said "Honey...hey. Great idea. Water park. OH. And you have to be ready to go by about 5 in the morning" he'd be locked out of the house. I think that CV convinced KV that it would be great to start their romantic weekend early, by taking the kids to the parents house a day early. I truly believe that KV didn't have any idea that there was anything wrong. I don't think that there was ever a confession, of any sorts. I think that CV made that part of the story up to give LE a motive for KV to be the shooter.
Here is the link of KV in the passenger seat photohttp://www.suntimes.com/news/
428809,channahon061407gal.photogallery
Mandy,
The photo is still at the Chicago Sun Times: http://www.suntimes.com/news/-1,...gallery?
index=0
I have been lurking for a while. I like most have a hard time believeing KV did this. When I was younger, my mother committed suicide with a gun. Her friends thought she was happy and looking forward to my impending nuptuials. While to my grandmother and me she was quite honest about the problems in her life. Since KV was so close to mother and sister I have a hard time believing that they would not have some insight into KV's home life.
Another thing on NBC 5 Chicago news they stated that CV told LE that he had an affair while he was on one of his biz trips.
I know CV is innocent until proven other wise. All I can say is this is so sad.
Darla,
I could accept part of that idea, except for leaving at 5 a.m. or earlier (depending on what timeline you believe.) If the grandparents house is like 4 hours away for a 9 a.m. arrival, that seems awfully early to arrive, drop off the kids, and head out a day early on a honeymoon for which you already have prior reservations, couldn't check in until the afternoon anyway, and may or may not have been able to reserve another nite. All questions which a mom- detail oriented as they are- would ask. And no call to the grandparents, who may have planned to leave early that day themselves? Doesn't make sense.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/
428...al.photogallery
I think the affair confession sounds like timely bs also. But let's just say that he was "upfront" with her about his new love and the conversation took place at home before the crazy death trip... Wasn't one set of their parents supposed to come up there friday & sat to watch the kids while they were at the B&B in Hermann MO? If they were fighting and obviously neither of them would be expecting to go ahead with the "romantic weekend" - wouldn't one of them have called their parents to say "hey, we've called off the trip, stay home, save your gas, we don't need ya to watch the kids afterall."??? I'm pretty sure most couples wouldn't have even considered a trip to a B&B for romantic purposes if an affair, on either of their parts, had been announced. What woman is going to have sex with a husband who's sleeping around ? or vise versa? If she was going to kill him for that, like he wants us to think, then it's even crazier for anyone to believe they were taking the kids to a water park and she was going to kill him in front of the kids... or whatever. Surely the ISP will want the goods on the girlfriend to corraborate that story. YIKES!!!
this is newhttp://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?
storyid=122496
http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_ar...?
storyid=122496
nwlogic - I do understand what you are saying. I do think, though, that CV knew in advance that he certainly wouldn't have had to make advance reservations. I think that he had to say SOMETHING to get KV on the road, with the whole family, that early in the morning, a day before the original trip. And, the way to get KV into the SUV was not to confess an affair just hours before (remember, they also had dinner with friends, and then there was a phone call to the mom, so this "confession" couldn't have happened the night before) and I just have a hard time believing that KV would still go on ANY road trip with CV after a confession of an affair (I'm with you, George!) I also cannot believe that CV expects LE to believe, then, that right before he adjusted some luggage on a deserted cell phone tower road, he told his wife of an affair. Remember, CV gave the water park as an explanation of why on earth they were all in the SUV, that early in the morning. CV also gave the explanation of why they had stopped at that part of the trip, on that road. And, CV gave the explanation that he was subsequently shot after his "confession." If he says that he confessed BEFORE this day trip, then LE has to believe that KV got ready to go, yippity-skip, and totally put aside the confession in order to sit just a few inches away from this newly discovered cheating hubby. OR, he says that he confessed DURING the trip, LE has to believe that he confessed while driving down the road, on the way to a water park, with his three kids in earshot. So, I truly believe that there was no confession, and that CV is just saying that to give KV a motive for "going berserk." PS I am sorry if I am repeating myself...
It's still so hard to believe that CV has not obtained legal counsel. Multiple police questioning sessions...search warrants at the family residence...an obvious swirl of suspicion around him. He must think he has covered his tracks pretty well or that he is innocent and has nothing to hide.
Darla, I think you make some excellent points. Just because CV is telling everyone one story doesn't make it true ... for one, if he revealed an affair, would KV really be all that interested in going to a water park the very next morning? Another thing that strikes me is that the kids' swimsuits were tossed in the back of the SUV. Maybe my parents were weird, but we'd always wear our suits under our clothes if we were going to a water park --- the locker rooms were always kinda yukky and who wants to undress in front of strangers. So, your theory of a visit to mom and dad's makes sense in that respect.
I think CV told her of the affair on the way to Springfield. Afterall, she spoke to her sister at 9 pm that night with no hint of sadness or emotion. And by all accounts, she was really looking forward to her romantic getaway.
I don't believe CV ever told KV about the "relationship." He told LE he had told her, because they surely asked him why his wife would shoot him. His "confession" provides her with "motive." What allegedly loving father tells his wife of his extramarital activity while his 3 beloved children are in the car with them?
Claire, what makes you think he told her about the affair at all?
Just to put the timing in perspective...Channahon is only about 20 minutes from Oswego.
I am thinking that CV didn't expect anybody to be asking any questions. He thought that LE and KV's family would just accept that she went bonkers and killed the kids and herself. When pressed, he then had to come up with a good reason to even be on the road at that time. He then was probably asked "Okay, Chris...um, any reason why she may have snapped?" and all he thought he had to do was say "Oh, well, I told her that I had an affair and you know how women are..." but he probably didn't expect to have to explain WHEN he made this "confession." Because, either way, before the trip or during, it doesn't make sense. My best guess is that CV expected to get away with this without any questions and to actually be hailed as a survivor (of a superficial gunshot wound, and I'd bet my last dollar that the second wound on his left wrist came from him holding his thigh with his left hand while he shot at it with his right) and also to be sympathized with as a grieving widower.
Ginny, I am not in the camp that thinks he pre-planned this thing but rather that it was an act of last minute passion. My original theory (even before I heard of his alleged confession of an affair)was that he broke some sort of devestating news on the way to the waterpark and they began to argue. I don't find some of the things that many find suspicious as unusual. The last minute trip to the waterpark--could totally see my family doing this. And we frequently get up at very early hours to get to our destination in time for breakfast and prior to the venue opening. We prefer that our kids sleep on the way. I think I read somewhere too that the Vaughns carried a weapon in the car as a normal course of things. And pulling off on that road off the interstate--well, yeah, I could see them doing that too, not thinking clearly in the heat of the argument. I am not saying any of it happened as CV claims, just that some of what people find insane seems not impossible to me.
Shawn, your timing perspective is helpful and disturbing. In all of this mess, I like to think that the kids were fast asleep. It's too painful to think otherwise but twenty minutes isn't a lot of time.
He needed to provide KV a motive to support his claim that she was the shooter. He had to assume that LE would eventually uncover his affair and conclude that it was his motive. He has attempted shift the affair from his own motive to KV.
The only element of this incident that supports his claim based upon what we know so far.... Is the seemingly random nature of the timing, location, and circumstance (why in the SUV?).
Darla, interesting theory on the left wrist injury. I never thought about that but it sounds very plausible. The ballistics investigation will be very enlightening.
Well...20-30 minutes into the trip to the water park, CV decides to bum his wife out by telling her devastating, life-changing news? This, a week after she gets her degree, and one day before a planned romantic getaway? While on the road to a water park??
Hi, Darla, I know it sounds a little crazy but is there ever a "good time" to reveal an affair? I could just see the pressure on him growing as she talked about the romantic getaway, the plans, etc...and him just thinking I need to blurt this out. Or I suppose she could have confronted him about why he wasn't as excited as she was...and he finally decided to reveal the truth. Again, I am not saying that it happened this way just that I don't find it implausible that CV could have revealed this info on the way to the Waterpark.
I cannot image that there is ever a good time to confess an affair, but I am pretty sure that it is not on the way to the water park at 5:00 AM with your beloved children sitting in the second row.
And what of the earlier local's posting pointing out that CV was not driving toward Springfield, the way he was headed? Was he fleeing a BadGuy? Then why the lack of notifications to family about his waterpark trip.
And anyone notice the blood on the leaves beside the front passenger-side door? That wouldn't have been from taking kids out -- I doubt ballistics was finished at that point, and LE/ME folks are likely more careful and tidy than to make more mess. That blood is from KV and may have implications for the under-chin shot. The window must have been open, or shattered.
If LE made such a big deal about no danger to the public in the aftermath, and they've let CV walk, then he's truly not a suspect. Hundreds of posts ago people were pretty sure LE was questioning-questioning and that CV'd hang himself with inconsistencies. A week later, he's smiling in his shorts, no lawyer.
Well I am sticking with my feeling all along he did it but he is proving to be pretty damm good at setting her up for it- the gun range, the admitting an affair and so on.
How many here if you were KV father or brother would kick his ass at the memorial service though?? I sure as hell would if I knew in my heart he was the killer- no one woud hold me responsible and I would feel better knowing I got my licks in on this dirtbag!!! hell he even has admitted to cheating on her(even though he is lieing) and that alone deserves a ass kicking as far as I am concerned. I just dont know how anyone could sit politely near the murderer of their loved one.
Scott, I see your point about the kids and in my mind I see them sleeping or very disoriented from waking up in the middle of the night and being placed in the car. My husband and I often quietly chat in the front of our vehicle and our kids don't hear a word with the whir of the highway as background noise.
Hi Claire - well, I just can't see then that if he did confess on the way, that he would have to also conveniently adjust the luggage. On that sortof dead end cell tower road right under some trees. And remember, we are not saying that he pulled off to adjust the luggage...HE said that he pulled off to adjust the luggage. And that when he was done adjusting the luggage, that when he climbed back in to the SUV, that she began shooting. A lot. BUT, that she began shooting after a confession. So...again, I have to turn on my common sense o'meter and it just doesn't sound right.
Another question that has been stuck in my head- If say I was CV and was totally innocent but came back and found out that my wife had killed my 3 beloved children and herself- I think I would committ suicide also. I serioulsy dont believe I would be strong enough to see that and want to live, I would just want to end the pain as soon as possible.
when you look at it the only way KV lives is if he is the killer under every scenario.
hitman-drug deal gone bad etc- HE should have died
jealous angry wife- HE should have died
Crazy wife- HE should have died defending his kids or suicide over the trauma.
The L&O episode is being reshown Sunday night on NBC at 9pm central.
Claire,
I actually posted at the same time as you and didn't see your post. I don't disagree with you, I just don't see this as very likely timng for that type of confession.
If he did confess, it is plenty of motive for her to kill him, but certainly not herself or the kids. Why would she not get out of the car after the initial shots and keep firing at him? That is my question.
Darla,
I don't buy that CV could expect to be "get away with this without questions". LE isn't stupid. They see cases where people blame another party all the time- especially in a domestic case. In a domestic case, a spouse or ex-spouse is always under an umbrella of suspicion. CV may be a computer whiz, but we expect him to think he can outsmart ballistic and forensic experts in a bizarre shooting in a secluded place allegedly going to a destination that was never mentioned previously to anyone? Like everything else in this case, it doesn't make sense.
They are reshowing it?? boy way to cash in NBC!!
Isnt the shows motto- "ripped from the headlines"- now it may have to be "we give psychos the idea to create the headlines"
I wonder if any of the disturbing details some have hinted at come to light if they wont decide to show a deal or no deal repeat instead though.
I believe CV had an affair, wanted out of the marriage, planned the excursion and killings for weeks--hence the gun range visit, either to get her prints or to be able to say later that she had some familiarity with weapons. KV's mother orginally said she didn't think Kim would even know how to get the safety off a gun; this way CV could claim that she did. My sense is that he shot and killed her first, shot the kids once, and then did indeed put the gun in her hand and fired more shots at the kids, as gruesome and sickening as that seems. Then he shot himself. I believe his alibi for KV "going crazy" was that he confessed the affair; I don't believe he actually did because he wanted to have control of the killings. So LE could certainly verfify an affair, but of course they would have no proof that CV actually told this to his wife. I don't believe he ever did.
Darla, those things trouble me too. I can't make sense of the luggage rack excuse and to a lesser extent the secluded road. And I don't see a mom who everyone describes as protective, loving, etc. shooting multiples times into her beloved children (makes me ill to think of this). I suppose it's possible that she killed them to take them with her/couldn't bear to see them with her betrayer but it feels unlikely.
I absolutely believed from the beginning that it had to be CV, based on the story he was telling and the fact that he was the only one with a non-fatal wound. But now I am having my first doubts.
For one thing, when I look at all the other high-profile cases where the hubby is a potential suspect, the cops usually make it clear through their words and actions that the husband is being looked at. If all of us lay people are this convinced of CV's guilt, then the police would have felt the same way and presumably have been all over him. It stands to reason that they must have some extremely provacative evidence supporting CV's story for them to have so publicly backed away from him as a suspect.
The questions that I keep coming back to are: Who snapped?; Why did they snap?; and if they snapped could they have really done this?
When I think about those questions and juxtapose them with what has been written so far about these two people, I am now starting to see Kim as a mother who lived for her children (it's been reported she didn't let them out of her sight for more than 20 minutes and made them carry walkie talkies). CV is being portrayed as more removed from the family.
I realize that this is all speculation, but if it really comes down to someone snapping, I think KV snapping because her hubby was going to leave her and her perfect family was falling apart is at least a possibility. Especially if you believe someone snapped. If CV turns out to have done it, he didn't snap.
nwlogic - well, I didn't mean totally getting away with this, without any questions, but more that CV would expect to be sympathized with as the survivor of a terrible shooting situation...his wife goes nuts and commits a horrific murder-suicide and he of course would be too torn up to talk. I am wondering if he didn't mean to hurt himself more...the gunshot wound wasn't probably as bad as he hoped it would be, because he was released fairly quickly from the hospital. His scenario might have been that he would be laid up in the hospital longer, and that the police wouldn't really want to question this hurt and wounded and grieving man. He would be able to bury his family and move on with the case closed of the "mom who went nuts." I just think that he didn't expect THIS line of questioning, in regards to why the family was where it was, at that time of the morning, and WHY she may have snapped.
Scott said:
He needed to provide KV a motive to support his claim that she was the shooter. He had to assume that LE would eventually uncover his affair and conclude that it was his motive. He has attempted shift the affair from his own motive to KV.
******
Thank you Scott, that's exactly what I've been saying since the "confession" was first reported. Remember, he also needed to explain the GF that LE was going to find out about eventually.
Now about this girlfriend. The radio host claims something explosive will be revealed. Could it be "WHO" the GF is that will be explosive?
And to everyone else out there who thinks someone was after CV or his family. Why wouldn't he say so? Why would he point the finger at his wife? And his job is dangerous? Please. Do you know how many people do what CV CLAIMS he did? If it were that dangerous, we'd have dead people all over silicon valley.
TracyLeigh,
I beleive that that the single shot to KV is probably creating "reasonable doubt" (for lack of a better term)at this point. Until LE can prove or disprove suicide, this case will be in limbo. Circumstantial evidence does not appear to support CV, but forensics will probably make or break his defense.
Is anyone else not getting the last words of a line of these posts?
My missing words are:
Confession
LE was
will be
his family
And his job
CLAIMS he
Valley
Sheesh, Steve? lol
Scott: You hit the nail right on the head with the question of reasonable doubt. As far as forensics go... we can't forget CV is a forensics expert and if he really did it, which I think he did, you can bet that this little escapade was well planned and he has all his bases covered. It would be horrible if this guy gets away with murder!
SuziQ - I was having the same problem. If you look under the original blog - there is a link that list how may posts currently exist - right click and it will expand your view.
i meant left click
I know CV is a computer/fraud forensics expert. What does that mean exactly? Would it make him an expert at violent crime ballistics and such? Maybe he read a lot of KV's criminal justice books.
I am having the same problem with not viewing the last few words. Simply copy and paste into microsoft word or any document program, and the whole posting will be there...
Whew, now I don't have to play "fill in the blanks" with everyone's posts. lol
Here are things that I think about:
1. 5 a.m. with kids in the car sounds like a really strange time to tell someone about an affair. You load up the kids and are barely on the road and you blurt out "I had an affair" 20 minutes later?
2. Assume he did tell her in the car and she got furious and told him to get off the freeway and take her and the kids back home, but he decides to park the car to get her calmed down. Is that possible?
3. If there is some angry argument in the car, the kids would wake up. Wouldn't the kids have said something, unbuckled a seatbelt after they were parked, gotten involved in the altercation? Or attempted to duck, get out of the vehicle, etc. Yet the kids were shot multiple times and all belted in their seatbelts. The shooting happened so fast it defies description, seemingly giving no one time to react. Could KV, who hated guns and couldn't shoot very well if the target range is any indication, get off that many rounds in quick succession?
4. Why hasn't CV sought legal counsel, even if he is innocent. And the fact that the LE hasn't identified him as a suspect or under an umbrella of suspicion is unusual to say the least.
I'm kind of thinking that anyone who really thinks they were going to actually make it to a waterpark that morning is all wet. CV can SAY anything he wants to about what was going on - but you can bet if he had really told her BEFORE they left the house about an affair, (and I think that is just another LIE that no one can disprove now) they wouldn't be in the car going out of town at all - with or without the kids. But of course he can SAY anything that makes his story good.
And, okay, even if somehow their relationship was rocky or whatever, and he told her about "an affair" she sure as heck wouldn't have killed HERSELF and HER KIDS! That is just such a lie I can't believe he thinks anyone would even believe it. Maybe he's one of those geeky computer guys that is so far removed from reality that he really doesn't know what normal people think or do and just figured everyone would say oooh, ahhh, you're such a fabulous man I can see where your wife would just kill herself and your kids because she was so upset you were having an affair. Kill him? yeah, but even if he tries to set up the scenario that she "went along" with the idea to take the kids to a waterpark (ha) and she packed the piece in her ditty bag right up front, pulled it out and said okay buddy, pull over off the highway to someplace secluded where I can blow your brains out with our children in the back seat (because no one really believes he stopped to adjust the "luggage carrier") you can rest assured, if that was her intent, she'd have hit him a lot better than just in his thigh. But again, that's just impossible! No mom is going to do that to the dad in front of the kids.
I think he kind of blew his cover by coming up with the "I told her something that made her mad" excuse. I don't think he gets it.
MarkL. Scotts way works great! I love a mystery but I was really getting tired of guessing what the missing words were. lololol.
Someone this morning posted that by the way the radio host was talking, they were expecting to hear Obama did it. I think the GF is Hillary C. Ok, Ok, enough silliness tonight. No I haven't been sipping. Maybe its all the weed killer I sprayed today.
How often have we heard of a wife killing herself and her kids because a husband had an affair?
I am struggling to recall any...
Scott, I can't think of any.
Being a computer forensic expert has absolutely nothing to do with dealing with Criminalistics. Without giving too much away, I am very familiar with the criminal forensic field.
There are hundreds of documented cases where people try to outwit science based upon their knowledge learned by watching CSI or reading a few books. The fact is it's nearly impossible to defeat science.
The amount of trace evidence, ballistic evidence, latent evidence and the advancements in the field criminal pathology (autopsies) proves an uphill battle for anyone, even someone with a great deal of knowledge in the area to defeat science.
There is nothing a computer forensic director, nor is there anything in KV's criminal justice books that will help CV defeat science and therefore set up KV.
While I am posting, I will put my two cents in on this case. I can appreciate everyone's speculations. Please do not believe everything you hear on the news though. I know from experience that many of these police "sources" are news people making stories up. Remember if they have “exclusive†information about details of any information, they sell newspapers or they increase their website hits (more hits means more ad revenue dollars). I am not intimate with this particular case, but based upon what I see, (the very competent) Illinois State Police are taking every precaution in this case. They will analyze all of the evidence and then build a case either against CV or against KV.
Lest you think the ISP does not know where CV is at ALL times, I assure you he is being tailed to ensure he doesn't head down to Mexico.
Thank you Scott. That's my point. While I can think of a few things that must might depress a woman enough to wipe out herself and her kids, a cheatin' husband isn't one of them. A cheatin' husband is how you get the house, the car, child support, alimony and a new life without a husband who doesn't love you anymore and isn't even man enough to call off the marriage before he cheats.
Thank you, MarkL, that was very helpful to me.
I continue to be amazed that everyone considers if she shot at CV, she would have killed him easily. Did any of you read what she told her co-worker at the clubhouse regarding going to the shooting range? "She shot the gun with HER EYES CLOSED". Consider CV re-entering the vehicle, she points the gun in his direction with her eyes closed, he bumps her hand or the shot misfires or ricochets into the vehicle or hits one of the kids. If it hits one of the kids, how can you not say KV couldn't snap? I don't understand why we can't consider this a possibility.
An assumption that is being made on this board which is incorrect is that it takes someone twenty (20) minutes to get from Oswego, IL to Channahon, IL. It takes much longer... Google Maps shows is takes forty-two (42) minutes. I would even argue that it would take longer. The area where they live in Oswego is stop and go with lights to get to I-55 to begin with... even at 5a on a Thursday morning...
nwlogic, I just think you're missing the point. That's CHRIS who's saying she shot him! Really, do YOU think she'd start shooting at her husband with her kids in the car? He had her at the shooting range to start HIS alibi, not hers. Well, that's what I think anyway. I don't think ONE single thing the man is saying can be the truth. I mean, didn't he originally try to tell the police it was a drive by shooting and then he said his wife did it?
nwlogic, I still have the KW snapped option on my turntable of possibilities.
I think that the lack of counsel on CV's part is due to LE indicating that he is "free to go" and "not a suspect." Once somebody lawyers up, they look guilty. So, CV is trying to not look guilty. And, that's just the way LE likes it right now. If they lawyer up, they are harder to talk to because the lawyer tells them to be quiet. I think that the way LE handled this was actually strategic in that they got him to make all these strange claims that he now, in the light of day, has to explain. And not only to LE, but to KV's family. And the public, when it comes right down to it (I know that we are not supposed to judge and innocent until proven guilty, but, we can't help but react to this tragedy.)I also thought a little bit about an "argument" after a "confession" and that CV would say that he pulled over to tell everyone to simmer down, but, that's not what he told LE. CV could have just told LE, look, she started getting mad, so I pulled way, way off the road. But, he didn't say that. I can just hear Chris: "Why did I pull over, exactly? Well, the luggage carrier was acting up so I had to pull over to fix it. Why on a dead end cell tower road? Because. Just because. OH. Why were we out on the road so early? Heh. Water park! Why did she start shooting up the place? Well, you see, I had just confessed an affair that I was having. When did I confess? Um. Well, you first. Why does it really matter when I confessed. Oh. Right. Because why would she take a trip with me if I just confessed an affair. Well, I told her on the way to the Water Park. And then all hell broke loose. But, not until after I pulled over to fix the luggage carrier." I mean, really...but, nwlogic, I like that we are able to see eachother's points. And I like the way that it is being brought up that CV brought up the affair proactively rather than reactively. I agree that CV is most likely out of touch with reality and didn't expect so many inquiries.
any person who is not familiar with using a semi-automatic weapon, their natural instinct is to tip the muzzle down as you are pulling the trigger. It is very very common to have people miss low as a rookie... once people learn to keep their wrists tight is when they usually stop dropping their muzzle.
with that being said, I have to agree with nwlogic... she could have been aiming for his chest and missed, even at close range.
i do not think it is beyond implausibility that KV committed this, but again, the forensic science will either prove or disprove CV's assertions.
It makes no sense that CV would (1) plan a special getaway with his wife to celebrate their wedding anniversary and then (2) confess to her about an affair.
If he was planning the trip, then he would not have ruined it by admitting an affair. If he was planning to tell her about the affair, he wouldn't have arranged an anniversary getaway at the same time.
Nwlogic - I don't consider your theory impossible... just improbable. I don't think that it would have been easy for her to kill him at all, but I do believe that she wouldn't have turned on herself or the kids before she made more of an effort to take care of him.
I agree with your list of questions up above.
George,
He also took her to a gun range here in Washington state before they moved to IL. It wasn't the first time she had gone with him. I do not think KV just snapped over the affair. I'm just saying if he did confess in the car- hypothetically- do you discount that in a rage she might have picked up the readily available gun and shot at him? An angry spouse could readily do that. I'm not saying that happened, but its possible. And the absolutely only reason someone like KV would snap would not be over disclosure of an affair, but shooting the gun and hitting/killing a child by accident and her other children witnessed it.
Did CV say who brought the gun and where it was kept in the car?
I agree that IF SHE WAS the first one to pull out the gun, and she CLOSED HER EYES (yeah right) and just hit him in the thigh and he jumped out of the car and ran off - that could've happened. But even if she was a nut case by trying to shoot him in front of her kids, the fact that he ran off doesn't make sense that she would then think, oh, never mind, I missed him, so I'll let him go hide in the trees while I kill all the rest of us. I'll show him.
I believe that KVs mother indicated that the gun was kept in the vehicle on a regular basis.
I think Joel was pretty dead on with this post:
when you look at it the only way KV lives is if he is the killer under every scenario.
hitman-drug deal gone bad etc- HE should have died
jealous angry wife- HE should have died
Crazy wife- HE should have died defending his kids or suicide over the trauma.
joel rohrer | 06.21.07 - 1:20 am | #
George - you pretty much summed up my thoughts
nwlogic--The "snapping" theory posits that she would slaughter ALL THREE of her children because HE confessed to an affair? Or, even more unlikely, that she would accidentally hurt or even kill one of the kids with a bullet intended for him--and then say, what, "Oh, darn, I killed one kid, may as well kill them all. And then myself. But he can go free." NO WAY.
George,
That's not what I said. I said she only would have snapped if she accidentally fired the gun at CV and hit one of the kids. KV could not have lived with that memory. And if she hit one of the kids, chasing down CV is the last thing she is thinking about.
nwlogic, yeah, hypothetically, I think if the two of them were alone in the car, and he said, I had an affair, that whole thing could've gone down that way. But NO, no way the woman "snapped" in front of her kids with a gun pointed at their dad... not over an affair. I just don't think so. Maybe if it's happened in a rest stop or a McD's - or she was "playing around with the gun..." But I see the scenario a lot like Darla, with him coming up with excuses AFTER the fact...
But then I think we're speculating over things based on what Chris SUPPOSEDLY told the ISP, none of which we know to be true or not. I really don't believe he actually told her he was having an affair and that is what made her kill everyone but him. And to add to what MarkL and others have said about what we're hearing from the press - yes, not everything should be believed. But the ISP also can say anything they want about the case based on what CV said to them even if they don't believe it, they can say it. And that's part of what I think they're doing now is to just go along with whatever Chris says until they get all the balistics in, autopsies and check about a million other things.
I'll just never believe that between the house and the killing place he told her he was having an affair. No body talks about stuff like that in front of their kids even if they think the kids are asleep.
Marcia,
Why is that impossible? Would you want to be in the vicinity of someone in a confined space who didn't like guns and started firing in rage at her husband? I don't care where you are in the vehicle- you have the chance of getting hit. Anyone could snap if they killed one of their children accidently and the other children witnessed it? And since when do think people who "snap" and have a psychotic break have any logical thought process?
I do have to say that I have tried to consider that KV might have snapped. God knows, women do snap. My initial reaction was "Wow, that is horrible, that poor man..." But, it's just the statements that CV has made, and the events leading up to the shooting, that are holding me up from considering that she would snap. The leaving early for a water park, after or during a "confession," pulling way off the road to adjust the luggage carrier, and a sudden shooting from the mom who couldn't shoot a gun with her eyes open. And by a mom who was just on her way to a water park according to CV...I mean, we can't discount what her family (to include a very close twin sister) knows about her and what her friends have said about her. Yes, women snap, and had she shot them all in their beds, after a "confession" then I would probably not have questioned it. But, to me, it seems to me that it will have taken a considerable aligning of the planets to put together this scenario the way that CV has tried to explain it.
nwlogic, I think what Marcia and I are trying to say is that even if the mother ACCIDENTALLY hit and/or killed ONE of the kids (which wouldn't have probably killed them since they were all shot multiple times)in an attempt to shoot the husband, she wouldn't then kill the other two kids. She wouldn'd kill herself either. She'd call 911 on one of the cell phones in the car. Pull the kid out of the car, start cpr and all that stuff. She's no dummy. I don't know how good you have to be to graduate from Phoenix with the kind of degree she just got, but she's no dummy.
nwlogic-- My rage would be focused on him. NOT on my kids. And even if I had somehow shot a child, accidentally or otherwise, I wouldn't then go on a shooting spree then and take them all out. And then myself. I've talked to lots of women this week in Oswego and thereabouts, and to a woman they all say the same thing--If there was shooting, HE would be the one to get it.
(I'm with Steve, the 90's online were much better.)
Just a few thoughts:
First, I think he's guilty, but will probably walk. I wonder if the forensics will be mishandled (nothing against the State, the ISP is one of the best); for example, blood smears-was the vehicle moved after death; tire tracks; scent trail at scene, how soundproof is the garage? However, the tight lid on information is a good sign.
Check out the Camm case, very similar in messy details.
MOTIVE: Let's try something that would completely ruin you in the eyes of your society and families, but isn't public knowledge (yet): incest (sorry). Not too probable there was any conversation at this time of morning about divorce or bankruptcy.
SEQUENCE OF EVENTS: They may not have been all shot at once. Kids could have been in SUV asleep and shot first in garage or at site if you want to link shots heard. If KV gets in dark SUV and thinks kids are asleep, dozes off... The problem with shooting KV first is the possible reaction of the kids (defensive wounds) to the sound which wouldn't be as likely if she shot them 1,2,3. From the photo of the SUV, KV,s position looks as if she were shot in the right temple, but reports are that entry was under the chin.
BLOOD: Spatter is unusual unless a major artery is hit; you could shot someone 5 times at relatively close range and not get a drop on yourself, especially if using a small caliber (there's a reason why the mob used a .22). But makes good movies.
George,
That's what a logical person would do. We are talking about a women that, according to one news report, couldn't pull a sliver out of her kid's hand because she couldn't handle hearing them cry. I'm not certain someone with that kind of psyche would react the way you outlined.
Another nagging question is CV motive if he did it. Haven't heard anything about insurance money. Yes, if KV divorces him and he's already financially stressed, it gets him out of alimony, child support, etc. But is that enough reason to kill your family? If he wasn't happy, why didn't he just walk out the door and serve her with divorce papers. His standard of living would have taken a hit for awhile, but certainly not made him destitute. I just don't get it.
Incest -- even a child's pregnancy occurred to me days ago but I didn't want to go there. Since Jollie has, let me tweak one of his hypotheses: since CV had a woodshop in the garage, at least one carspace was consumed, and somewhere it was reported that the SUV lived outside, when it was at home. Also reported was that the rooftop carrier was on the car continually, for months. I doubt it would fit in the garage -- hard to clear the door and its manual-operation handle, perhaps? Esp if a two door garage (ck photos). So if CV is the badguy there's reason to doubt he did it in his garage.
Please please tell me we aren't going down this child abuse angle again?
By all reports that I have read, CV said specifically (and one report is at the very top of this blog) that KV shot him first, and he fled. Then, she allegedly shot the children, then herself. And then the report goes on to quote the mom as saying that HE had planned this romantic getaway for this weekend, for their anniversary. And now he has to try and explain why they were where they were and what happened...and that is the part that isn't adding up. I feel that KV was entirely logical up to the point where she was shot in the head by her self professed cheating hubby. I feel that KV was truly unaware of any difficulty, of any kind, other than a problem with the luggage carrier. I think that CV has the same motive as any other husband that kills his wife and family. He was traveling on business often, which means that he wasn't very interested in staying home with his family. He told the police that he confessed to an affair, and maybe he was having one, but I don't think that he told KV. I think that he SAID that he told her to offer up a motive on HER part. I think that CV might have had murder on his mind and just needed an opportunity. Law and Order might have provided that idea to him, and he had to get the family in the SUV and on the road to a remote spot to do so. But again, I am really going on what HE has provided in statements to LE.
Sorry nwlog -- that's called reconsidering old assumptions, sifting the data, re-sifting. There are new people in this forum who might have insights unheard before. Is it too much to allow them to get up to speed? Might learn something in this group exercise. Sometimes it's the holdout juror who cracks the case.
And in this forum, with the loss of 600 posts as Huff made his transition today, we should be especially patient with newcomers who're unaware of "discarded" theories.
It's not as if we're in a hurry, nor as if we'll crack the case and get a prize.
Darla,
Do we assume that then that CV missed the ending to the L & O episode where the husband is caught? Hmmm...
nwlogic - good point!! But, I am guessing that CV has decided that he is smarter than the husband in the L & O episode. I think that he thinks that he has all his ducks in a row...and truly hadn't expected to have to explain all of this.
I'd just like to make one more point about the mother and her relationship to her kids - which is speculation on my part of course - but here it is:
The mom spent a lot of time with her kids being in activities. That takes a lot of energy and effort and money and women I know who parent that way are used to a lot of stress and even anxiety. She was a brownie and GS leader. Her daughter was going to be on a traveling soccer team which is a LOT of commitment for the parent(s). Some people have got the idea that she was "Over Protective" of her kids, like she was kind of goofy about it and maybe a tad overboard. I don't think that just because she walked her kid to the bus stop she's overprotective. In this day and age with all the roadside abductions of boys and girls of all ages, I wouldn't let my kids out of my sight either. With her knowledge/recent criminal justice degree or whatever it was, she's probably way more in tune with child protection than the average person. I don't know what she felt about her children's safety, but she was out in the back yard playing vollyball with them and hauling them back and forth to camp, taking them to sunday school etc etc... My personal feelings are that this kind of mother #1 doesn't SNAP over something in front of her kids if she does at all, and #2 absolutely would not PURPOSELY kill any of her children no matter what reason. She might want to kill herself. She might want to get rid of her husband. But not her kids. uh uh.
And as far as the affair goes. It could have been like this. If he told the ISP he was having an affair he probably was because now he has to tell them who it was. But it's very possible that the wife knew about it a long time before this night and she was getting ready to DUMP HIS ASS. As soon as she got her degree and a J.O.B., a good lawyer etc etc, it would be all over for him except the crying and the check writing for child support, house payments for a house he didn't live in any more and all that good stuff. Just because she told her mom everything was wonderful doesn't mean it was. And just because the press reported how great her family thought he was as a husband doesn't mean that is how it really is.
Thanks for your patience with me. I just hope we, the interested public, will be able to get the results when the police have them. Good night.
Some posters have wondered why, *if* CV was the shooter, he would do it in the vehicle and not the house. The explanation seems obvious: if you want to start a new life by doing away with your current family, it'll be kinda hard to unload the house you have a nearly $400K mortgage on if the wife and kids are slaughtered IN the house. "Site of mass family homicide" isn't great for resale value.
If CV wanted out of the marriage, I do not have trouble seeing why he would choose to off his family vs. serving DV with divorce papers. Divorce in his case would have equaled alimony (at least until KV could have secured reasonably paying employment), child support x3...and possibly obligations for post-secondary education. CV would have been on the hook financially for quite some time. It probably would not have left him destitute, but it definitely would have cramped his style.
ceedee - I agree - for some people, families have become disposable (yeah, even to the point of killing) and that could be what happened here. He was away to Mexico, it seems, and when you read of the kids' activities, they are very kid and mom oriented, not dad oriented. It gave his interests as "avid hunter and camper..." and then...that's it. But the kids and mom had activity after activity going on. Maybe to him, they were a package deal that he didn't want to deal with anymore. They got married young and we are all different in our early 20's than we are in our 30's...she is now a mom with a degree and has raised the kids while he has been away on business, and he clearly has other interests courtesy of his confession to the police that he was having an affair...so I can see your point of why he would choose to do away with them this way rather than walk away in a divorce...because he knows that there is no walking away. He'd still have to deal with them as part of his family, but if they are dead in this way, he gets the sympathy AND the freedom. Almost!
ceedee - yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. I just can't figure out though, if he wanted to kill her, why he didn't take care of it on their trip to Herman.
Did you know there's a MYSpace for Chris Vaughn in Oswego IL and his age is 32 and the only comment is under "Children" and he says "I don't want any children.
I think the last time anything was posted on it was august 2006. That is one heck of a coincidence. There's not much on the site. Kind of like someone started it and just didn't get very far. Pretty freaky that is says what it does about the kids. But then there could be another Chris Vaughn in Oswego who's 32 and doesn't want any kids.
Darla, you know, you could be DEAD ON. He could've really wanted a nice quiet FAther's Day for once without those pesky kids around wanting to play volley ball and go to the pool. Who needs another crappy tie anyway?
Well, he didn't quite get the quiet Father's Day that he wanted...lots of hustle and bustle going on in those police precincts these days! PS Dead on...that is great!
There is also a Christopher Vaughn on MySpace.com who lived in Kennewick, Washington, age 32 with a last posting of 2/2007. One has Libra and other has Aries for zodiac sign... anyone know his birthday?
couple of ramblings
- I like how people think she could miss her husband who wasnt expecting anything but then dead eye the kids multiple times when likely they were moving all over the back trying to get away.
- I know nothing about guns and likely she didnt either. now if we expect she fired off 8-10 rounds and she killed kids, shot at hubby and then offed herself, how would she know how many bullets she had? if it was heat of moment she may not be counting. anyways if say it ends up the exact number of bullets fired that the gun holds or even lets say 1-2 more than(where someone had to reload) do you beleive that KV did it?
-to Kelly who lived next to him and supported him somewhat- now that we may know he is at the very least an adulterer and didnt love his wife and family 100%, has it changed your opinion of him at all?
-
New article on the Sun Times website:
"She Was Anti-Gun"
http://www.suntimes.com/news/
met...chann21.article
"But there was one thing Kimberly Vaughn insisted on: She wanted her husband, a licensed private investigator, to keep his handgun in his Jeep, not in their home, said a close friend from their time in Sammamish, Wash."
So KV insisted that he keep the weapon in his jeep? How would she have known it would be in the SUV that morning? I can't believe she'd suddenly decide it was a good idea to have a loaded weapon along on a "family" outing.
One last thing
If we beleive he told her of an affair and she shot at him out of rage about this incident.
If she had stopped there being a woman and a criminal justice major she would know that considering the circumstances and only grazing him, any lawyer could get her off with maybe 90 days max or time served- there would be no reason to blow away the kids and herself cause she was scared after allegedly shooting him.
The only way she kills the kids is what i posted before- a very very deep religous person taking them with her to heaven where they would be in a better place.
George . . . great post at 3:23. Re: myspace post at 3:36 . . . default on myspace is "doesn't want kids." He just never filled out the profile.
One of many nagging issues . . . starting from point A: why/how the "trip to the waterpark?" . . . I keep thinking about the dogs. KV very family-oriented, kind, etc. Would she leave the dogs alone all day to go on this trip? Wouldn't she ask someone to look in on them, etc.? How does CV get her to go anywhere in the first place? And with the kids (who are enrolled in various programs, no less)?
Then, later, CV has animal control pick up the dogs. Which I find very strange . . . like everything else about this case.
My family and I are relocating to Oswego from St. Louis, MO (actually the St. Charles County area), so I have been following this story. Nice PR. And have been reading this website daily. He so did it. The story does not make sense at all. He appears to be very stupid as well, as I cannot believe he has not gotten a lawyer. The police have to be loving that as the more he tells his story, the easier it will be for the police to nail him. Since I am new, what does LE stand for?
I don't think a "very very deep religious person" kills anyone, especially their children. I think a very sick person, possibly schizophrenic who hears voices telling them to do something would maybe do that. Andrea Yates and other poor souls who have killed their loving children in the name of Heaven, had substantiated mental illness, depression, and history of such. I just don't see it in this lady. Go to www.baue.com and read some of the items in the guest book. She was out in the world with these kids. Not a loose cannon type.
If just a couple of things in Chris' story and actions didn't make sense we'd still be suspicious of him, but I don't see anything in his story that holds water. I hated to see the picture of him walking out of his parent's home to an awaiting truck. The shorts, the hat, the casualness of it all made me sick.
If his story was really true, and I know people handle grief differently, but I think most guys (or gals) would have to be under doctors' care, sedated and much too miserable to trot off somewhere on the fly.
Also, does anyone know what subdivision the family lived in? Sure hope it is not the sudivision we are moving to in 2 more weeks!
I think it is safe to say that most married people who are having an affair are NOT going to confess out of the blue. Even when a spouse confronts them with suspicion, they tend to deny, deny, deny. Unless confronted with solid evidence, most people will not fess up.
Andie, I thought the same thing about Animal Control. Kind of nailed it down for me why the murders took place far from the house... as someone posted before, hard to sell house with bad juju. I would have called my next door neighbor to feed and water the dogs for a few days and stay in touch. He obviously doesn't plan to interact with the neighbors anymore. I wonder what he took out of the house when he went there with his parents.
Barb, LE is short for Law Inforcement. ISP is Illinois State Police.
Jane, I agree. PLUS a woman scorned wants DETAILS. She's going to want to make his life miserable while she grills him non-stop about the other woman. She'd never just think that shooting him in the leg was enough punishment. Like that old country & western song, No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. I think he came up with about the least believable lie when he told LE that was why she was mad at him and killed herself after blasting away her adored kids. sheesh. I'm guess they'll be picking him up at Baue Funeral home right after the memorial service.
Somewhat random question, is that his jeep in one of the recent pictures? The red and crazy one where it looks like he is heading off for a beer run in his shorts and sunglasses as opposed to lying prostrate with grief after the slaughter of his family?
Circumspect, a law enforcement friend of mine (totally unrelated to this case) predicts that he'll be arrested after the funerals.
**BREAKING NEWS ** 
At 7:30a on WLS Talk Radio (Don Wade & Roma show) a woman called in to say that her son was on that frontage road that night.
That there was a black truck (exactly like the one show that the passerby was driving) just past the cell tower, in the middle of the road. When he came up to the truck the person ran and got into the passenger side. They reported that info to the State Police.
Hmmm... remember KV's mom said KV told her he went out to get something around 9pm, meeting with the person he was having do the killing for him??
Another of the many things that sicken me about this case: the thought that Kimberly's family and friends are going to have to be in CV's presence for the funeral of her and her beautiful children.
Wow, Hope that is a very intesting development...and not a good one for CV.
George... I think you're dead-on with your theory that KV knew something was up before that night.
Circumspect--I thought the same thing when I saw CV in his shorts and shades at his parents'--just didn't look right to me.
As far as why murder in the car and not the home--I agree with the mass-murder-resale theory. Also, the dogs would have been going berserk, drawing attention from the neighbors and making CV's getaway impossible (unless he was going to kill them too, who knows). The car was a much more controllable and contained location--he determined what isolated spot to go to, and the crime scene and victims were in a small area. They probably had the child-safety locks on the back doors, so those poor kids couldn't escape even if they had had the time. The isolated, tree-shrouded road gave CV plenty of time to compose himself and do what he had to do to clean up the evidence, well out of the way of anyone's line of vision.
Also, last night on one of the local news stations--maybe WGN--a reporter asked a cop if there would be an arrest in the case. There was this interesting split-second pause where I held my breath for a moment -- and then the cop said he had no comment. But I got a definite vibe that there would be an arrest coming. Obviously, if KV had been responsible, the perpetrator would be dead and no need for an arrest.
What are the links to the Myspace pages?
That's interesting about the call in to the radio talk show about a black truck looking like the black truck of the passerby. But what I am remembering is that it was reported by another media person a few days ago who knew a friend of the passerby, that the passerby said that he didn't think that the angle of the wound in CV's leg fit with the story that CV told. If the passerby was someone who was involved, it's not logical that he would be expressing an observation like that. If he was involved, then he'd have been saying things to support CV's story.
So, he gets out of the car to "check" on luggage carrier, masked intruder (passerby) shoots KV and 1 bullet into each child.
Then they have to have her hand shoot more bullets into the children to get the GSR on her.
He walks down to the marina to wash up and passerby "happens by" and finds him.
Circumspect - good point about the house resale . . . hadn't thought about that.
I think they will arrest him before the funeral... because if the LE know he did it, I don't think they would want him anywhere near the ones he murdered!
More thoughts on why do the shootings in the SUV and not the home: If neighbors heard shots, they'd call police and there would be no time to clean up and hide evidence.
Hmmmmm. Which makes me wonder if gunshots heard earlier in the night were "test firings" to see if the sounds would attract the attention of anyone who would call police to the area. Since no police came to check anything out, the test would have provided important information.
Re: the call this morning to WLS radio. I think the same woman must have posted about this on the Court TV message board about this case. She said her son and a few of his friends passed a black pickup on the same road where KV and kids were found. Truck was kind of blocking road and as they passed, guy who'd been standing on the driver side ran over and jumped in passenger side? She reported it to ISP & they interviewed all the kids. Wish I could find that post on the Court TV boards, but there's like 27 pages of messages on the case by now. Anyone else see the post?
Yes, if KV divorces him and he's already financially stressed, it gets him out of alimony, child support, etc. But is that enough reason to kill your family? If he wasn't happy, why didn't he just walk out the door and serve her with divorce papers.
Why don't you ask Scott Peterson. Oh, wait...
Mark L. wrote: "any person who is not familiar with using a semi-automatic weapon, their natural instinct is to tip the muzzle down as you are pulling the trigger. It is very very common to have people miss low as a rookie... once people learn to keep their wrists tight is when they usually stop dropping their muzzle."
Interesting information. Is there something about the gun that makes you believe it is a semi-automatic weapon? Would that be unusual to carry a semi-automatic weapon in a family vehicle? And is the size of a s/a weapon consistent with what appears to be lying on her lap in the picture of the front of the SUV that appeared with one of the first news reports? How large is a semi-automatic?
Where is the photo of CV looking relaxed at his parents home?
I went to high school with Vaughn. He was a bit different. Came across ok, but always was a bit out there. Distant. Hard on the ladies too.
uh, I think the picture of him walking out of his parents house is at www.ksdk.com which is a St. Louis TV station. The caption said he got in the passenger side of a cream colored pickup (or some such color, metalic I think) but there's a goofy macho guy type jeep in the picture - in the driveway - that he is walking past. I couldn't make out if the license plate was Mo or IL on the jeep and they don't show the truck he got into.
I too keep thinking about those damned kid-proof back-seat door locks. I'd bet they were in place. I keep mine on so the grandkids don't unbuckle themselves and take a flying leap. I'm sure the crime scene was hellish as the ISP and others alluded to.
Shawn,
I would disagree that Oswego is only 20 mins from Channahon. I would say 30-40 without traffic. As long as 60+ mins with traffic. And if they left around 4 or 5 in the morning, there wouldn't be much traffic.
-ss
Dear Anon.,
You said "Hard on the ladies too." Please clarify. Thanks.
George posted something a long ways back about whether the "black truck passer-by" could have been an accomplice. #1 because it's just in a strange place on the road to have picked up chris and also the guy said he saw the blood spatters on the windows. Most people I think would have driven to the site, not walked. And in the arial photos it doesn't look that close to the site. and #2 if Chris was the one that shot the kids and he shot the mom first (maybe she was dozing or doped up who knows) wouldn't the kids have been at least unbuckled from their seats all over the car saying WTF Dad?
Or the kids whose mom called WLS, maybe, just wanted to get on the news.
If he had told her about an affair, maybe she tried to shoot him in the groin and missed. Remember Lorena Bobbitt cut off her husbands penis when she found out about his affair. He could have been trying to protect himself and that is when the wrist got shot.
He's having an affair, then decided to make his marriage work, it's possible that he had planned the romantic getaway in order to rekindled the romance with KV. However, he changes his mind at the last minute he would rather be with the GF.
He tells KV about the affair that night as they are getting ready to go to bed - midnight or so. They spend the entire time talking then decide to head down to St. Louis early to drop the kids off at MIL's. So they can talk about the state of their marriage. It's early in the morning when they make this decision so she hasn't called her family about it yet, but plans too once they are in Springfield.
The trip to the water park is a convenient way to assuage themselves of the guilt. Kind of a Good News, "we're taking you to a water park," Bad News, "Mommy and Daddy are getting a divorce," type thing.
After spending the day at the water park they plan to head to the B&B to talk and decide what to do next.
I've been in the situation of hearing that my fiance was having an affair and that the other woman was now pregnant. I've felt that SNAP. It's scary as you can imagine. And it takes everything you can muster to not act on it.
I'm also a mother and my daughters are 11 and 12. There is no way I would EVER turn a gun on my kids. EVER. In fact, in a situation like that I don't think I could turn a gun on myself because there is no way I would want a lying, cheating, no good SOB raising my kids. And it's that same reason why I wouldn't turn the gun on him either. I can't be a good Mom to my daughters if I'm in jail for murdering Dad.
Like KV, I'm all about my daughters and unfortunately, sometimes I neglect my relationship because I do put them first. I try not to, but it happens. It's been my experience that if you don't put the man in the relationship first, he goes looking elsewhere for attention. He usually finds it some other woman's bed.
Just my two cents.
IMO... he did it and I bet LE is working as hard as they can to break the case so there is a dramatic arrest right before the funeral.
If you look at this picture of Chris actually getting into the beige truck at his parents' house you can see he is actually smiling.
Doesn't look like he's dressed to go to the funeral home either.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/
met...chann21.article
Swim suits - I agree the kids would have them on underneath their clothes. Because of the community pool, they
may always keep the "pool" bag in
the car.
Mortgage underwater - possibly he kept
money hidden as he figure the house
would sell less then what it's worth and /or pay someone to do it. I believe he planned this for awhile.
From WBBM Newsradio 780
"Information from those interviews,
the results of blood and DNA tests just starting to come in and Vaughn's alleged confession about a relationship are all being
scrutinized by authorities like
pieces in a jig-saw puzzle, which, when complete, should yield the face of the killer."
I just looked at the picture...well CV is a piece of work! Is he crazy or stupid? There's also interesting story linked on that page about the house being mortgaged to the hilt.
If he did it, it should be pretty clear by the forensics. Gunpowder residue, fingerprints, body positions, blood, etc...
Right now I have an easier time believing she did it just as he said than I do believing he was stupid enough to think he could stage something like this and get away with it.
But, if he did it, I have faith LE will figure that out.
I am really playing devil's advocate here when I go back to speculating about KV snapping, because if I am being honest I guess I hope it IS CV as he is certainly the least likable character, but:
Motive: So far there hasn't seemed to be a strong enough motive to explain offing the entire family. Another woman or finances or any thing a la Scott Peterson doesn't seem to make sense when taking out three children.
That is what makes this whole thing so different. With some of those other cases (I know, not all, but most) it was directed toward the wife because even if she was pregnant there was no independent relationship with the child. Andrea Yates and the hangings in Texas (which were the third in that county in 2 years) point to moms killing their own kids.
So the heinous nature of killing your children like that seems indicative of someone just losing it.
Now, if that is the case, she would have looked hyper perfect prior to that but it would have been building up. Also, she would have had to feel backed into a corner in order to have snapped.
Maybe CV had already asked for a divorce and the romantic weekend was aborted at the last minute. They decided to take the kids away to discuss what was happening to the family. Up until the moment that KV snapped she might have been dealing OK with it, but then the realization that there was another woman, or whatever went on in the car was just the final straw.
Obviously just a theory.
Edgarpoe,
I hope so, but I doubt it. Gloves & overalls or change of clothes (gun
shot to pants, get rid of after by
burying, Marina, pond or was it
garbage night in the neighborhood?
Also could have hired someone.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/
met...chann21.article
"But investigators also are conducting toxicology tests to determine whether Kimberly Vaughn or the children were drugged or sedated at the time of the shootings, sources said."
********
I wonder if LE is going this route because of lack of defensive wounds or movement by the kids. Were they prone and still as if they were sleeping? There should have been evidence of mayhem and chaos in the backseat. Such as unbuckled seatbelts. One kid under the other. Maybe one kid would have made it to the back of the cargo area. The point is, guns aren't fast enough to kill all three without at least one or two of the kids moving and trying to get away. They would not be sitting there prone. I used to date a gun collector and my son inherited alot of knowledge. So I asked my son about all of this. He agreed with me. And also added that a silencer could have been used and could have been made in CV's workshop. But that there should be evidence on the gun of previous silencer attachment. Like a screw. However, my son says a coke bottle can be used as a silencer wedged onto the barrel. But it would have to be a long barrel. That's the only silencer he knows of that would not leave a mark on the gun. And would also trap gun residue inside the bottle.
Note to criminals, or anyone ready to commit murder, just use a coke bottle wedged onto the barrel, that will trap gun residue! If only it were that easy
I'm no forensics expert but I believe gun residue would also exit the rear of the gun, thus ending up on clothes and the hand firing it, so muzzling the barrel shouldn't affect that.
-ss
How much do you want to bet CV wil or already has given LE an explanation for the drugs (if there were any). I can hear it now! "Oh, detective, btw, my family wanted to be rested and alert for their day at the water park, so they all took sleeping pills"
Which will hang him as he claims KV shot everyone. Hard for a person sleeping to do.
NBC reports undercover investigators will be at the wake/funeral keeping a close eye on CV.
http://tinyurl.com/yt8wy3
SS, laugh all you want. But even potatoes have been used as silencers. I'm not an expert either on gun residue. But if there is a will there's a way and I have a feeling CV gave how he was going to kill his wife and kids plenty of thought. He's been pretty creative so far!
SuziQ, I see the beautiful kids in the back of an SUV, belted in, sleeping and totally trusting. For my kids, if they even had time to awaken before being hit, they would have crouched over and tried to protect themselves. I doubt they would have time to unbuckle or that unbuckling would be their first instinct in a dark car.
She spoke with a real confidence in herself and was a bit sassy at times. She was passionate when she spoke, and also spunky, like when a lady knew she's cute. She showed she had pride in herself as a woman. She "raised" her kids as she saw fit and was doing it well. She came off as a strong willed, driven, confident lady who knew what she wanted. No way in my mind she would kill herself. I will never believe she would harm any of her kids. NOT OVER A MAN... A man can be replaced, her kids could not.
Claire, your kids must be alot more reserved and more well behaved than my kids. When coming to our destination, my kids can unbuckled faster than the speed of sound! Thank god for child safety locks or they would be out of the car that fast too.
And I don't remember who posted that their kids never hear what is being discussed in the front seat. Unless the kids have headsets on, they hear you.
Suzi,
Sure I was poking fun, we need some himorbut I was serious too. I am aware of potatoes used as silencers. Potatoes are also used to stop natural gas leaks when someone cuts a line (seen it done 2x). That in addition to their contributions to society as potato chips and french fries.
But I still question the effectiveness of a coke bottle for trapping the residue.
The timeline is most important in my mind. I'd love to know when they left the house, when they pulled over, when CV was shot, when the kids were shot, when KV was shot, etc.
-ss
SS, I think my sons main point was a silencer can be made and not leave a mark on the gun. Not very useful and hard to do. But can be done.I highly doubt that CV used one. I'm more concerened on the postitions of the bodies and wether there are any defensive wounds or actions on the part of the kids. If there isn't, why?
Suzi, that was me who said that about my kids...and perhaps they are a well behaved bunch. KVs kids gave me that impression too. Also, I've sat in the back seat on occasion when driving on long trips and I can't hear a thing of what is being said up front, especially when on a highway.
Any forensics experts on here? Mark L? Can forensics determine the order in which bullets were fired from a gun? Perhaps based on the heat of the gun as each successive shot is fired? Would that make a discernible impression on the bullets that could shed light on whether the first bullet was the one that killed KV? It would certainly help to know who was shot first...I also wonder if LE could determine whether CV's wound was fresher than the others?
I thought I read where they left around 5:00 and pulled over around 5:20-5:25.
I imagine the kids were asleep when they pulled over. The first shot went into his leg. That would have sounded like a cannon going off inside the SUV. Then she started shooting the kids. 2 were probably shot before they were even awake enough to realize what was happening. Then she finally shot herself. A few minutes later the passerby comes by.
If he did it, and still got angles of fire, fingerprints, gunpowder residue, blood evidence, body positions, etc...all correct without a mistake...that would be pretty amazing.
Well I would hate to think my kids would act well behaved when someone is shooting at them.
Suzi, I am not saying my kids would act "well behaved"...just that their instinct would be disbelief, shock and then the instinct to crouch down and hide.
edgarpoe--There's a problem in that scenario--where is CV when KV is doing that shooting? Assuming he's the "good" guy in this, is he just sitting there watching her mow down three kids and then herself? If she wasn't such a great shot (hence his thigh wound) wouldn't she be flailing around and he would have ample opportunity to grab her arm, grab a kid, and even get more defensive wounds? He was far more experience with a gun. He was a big guy--he could have tried to slug her in the head to knock her out, or overpower her.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.....................
Marcia -- CV looks, etc. like a duck. BUT -- if he is such a callous and careless guy, why would LE allow him free? Imagine what he could do to other family members, esp ones who see ... a duck.
CourtTV site posting has him in an affair on a fishing trip -- leading to Brokeback speculations.
If you step into a car, and somebody opens up on you and hits you in the leg, the first reaction of 99% of the human species is going to be to jump out of that car and get out of gunshot range. Then think about what to do next. Most people aren't Rambo. I don't believe he ever thought she'd hurt those kids. Even at a relatively slow rate of fire (1 shot every 4 seconds) it would have been all over within 45 seconds.
Sorry to ruffle duck feathers, but KV's looking like a quack up to me.
WhatHappened--Whoa! Brokeback! Didn't think of that.
I can only think LE wants to keep him talking and wanted to have all the forensics back before they arrest him. They must have determined that the family is what he wanted to be free of, no on else. Now we know that he is being watched down in Missouri; I'm sure they put a Global positioning device on his car, a la Scott Peterson.
CourtTV site posting has him in an affair on a fishing trip -- leading to Brokeback speculations
Wow, I can't wait to see who this other person is.
I've been looking at Court TV message boards as well. They're attempts at solving this crime is almost as feverish as this group.
They're focusing on the left leg issue and how that could have happened instead of his right leg. CV said he was getting back into the car when she shot him, right? Hmmm...
They're also discussing the possibility that KV may have already had an attorney. Hmmm....
Also, NBC5 certainly zeroed in on the fact that his wrist was bandaged and that it was an interesting fact for LE.
Oh wait, that was CBS2
I posted this on the crimeblog.us open thread a few minutes ago:
AH! I realized something that is VERY INTERESTING and makes the wounds on CV's thigh and wrist significant! This is a lengthy explanation but you can demonstrate this on your own body and with your own car or vehicle. Initially I thought that his wounds didn't have much significance in trying to figure out who shot him. But I have changed my mind.
Our hands fall naturally when we are standing to no lower than just below our hips. If we are standing, we'd have to lean over for our wrists to be in front of a part of our thighs. If standing and getting in the car when shot, CV would have to be leaned over and approaching the seat with his LEFT SIDE. Which is not the way that we get into the driver's side of the car. We get in with our RIGHT SIDE entering the car on the driver's side. How would someone shooting at him as he gets in the car manage to hit him in the left side? My husband and I went outside to try to reenact the positions of CV and KV and it is not natural to stand inside of the driver's side door with your left side in a position where you can be shot in the left thigh. Go out to your car and stand as you naturally would to get in the driver's side.
If he is sitting down in the driver's seat when shot, then he'd have to have his left arm resting on the inner right side of his left thigh. If he has just gotten back into the car, he hasn't had time to relax. His wife, according to his story is shooting at him. The position of his left hand on the inner side of his left thigh doesn't seem natural for these circumstances. I can imagine his left hand up in the air or on the wheel or on top of his left thigh maybe but on the inner side of his left thigh seems less likely.
However, if someone wants to shoot themselves (or have someone else shoot them) in the left thigh, you would have to be leaning over while standing up to get a bullet to go through the thigh and graze the left wrist. Stand up and try to get your thigh and wrist to line up and you'll see what I mean. Not a likely position to use for shooting yourself in the left thigh. Possible but not likely.
If you are sitting down to shoot yourself in the thigh and you shoot from as far right as you can at your left thigh (to avoid leaving evidence of a closer position of the gun), your aim in the position might be not as accurate as if you are shooting from normal eye level at a target. If you are leaning forward, which makes it easier to get a bead on your thigh, it would be easy to have your left wrist on the top of your left thigh or slightly to the left side, meaning that if you are a little bit off in your aim, you will graze your wrist. In the heat of the moment, trying to remember everything, it would be easy not to take into account the position of your wrist in relation to the bullet entering the thigh and easy not to be able to aim as well as usual due to the unusual position of the gun
She didnt do it
I read everything. I know her, and I am completely consumed with trying to find out why. Just remeber that we're reading everything. When Sandy had her arm broken, everyone told her at the school. Nothing was wrong. But when she got home, she said that it just didnt seem right. So she took her to the drs just to make sure. Sure enough, her growth plate was brokem. I told her she should press charges. And she was also concerned for the kid who did it. She was a wonderful mother.
More info, please Anonymous. You could really give us some peace of mind. Plus, we might be able to return to normal lives rather than obessing about this. As you can see, we're all just a little bit consumed by the story.
Please help...
Ginny,
Do you know if he was actually shot by KV, was he shot when:
Standing outside of the SUV about to get in?
Trying to get in the SUV?
Sitting in the SUV?
Leaving the SUV because she started shooting?
I don't think it was released WHEN he was hit, so thanks for re-enacting this in your front yard and sharing your findings (hope your neighbors weren't watching or else you may be questioned soon ), but did you try any positions which show CV standing there or running out?
-ss
Hey if Court TV knows something substantial to make the "other woman" turn out to be the "other man" then my theory of the possibility of the "passerby" being somehow involved makes some sense.
QUESTION: When was it that I heard that his first claim was a drive-by shooting? Anybody else remember hearing that?
I can't say to much. But I read all of the things you guys have wrote. She was my friend. And our kids use to play together. I can't even tell my kids. They suspect something. But I havent been able to watch tv or anything when they're around. And we actually had to leave my house cause of reporters. Anyway, Kim was so nice. We struck it up right away. I had already seen Chris for a long time. But we never spoke. Maybe a random smile. But as soon as I met Kim and the kids. You could tell we talked alot. We both stayed home. I could kinda compare Chris to the quiet type. I asked her one time if he got annoyed cause we talked so much, (like us women do.) I just know that there was no way. That would be saying I could do something like that. And she just wouldnt. I have to stop now. But anyways thanks for the outlet. I've been advised to say no comment. But I guess I just needed a outlet.
This is easy. CV had an affair. Probably more than just on a bizness trip. He mentioned it because he did not wish to appear to be lying when the police found out, which they always do.
They went on the trip anyway because they were going to KV mom's right. Maybe she was going to stay there.
No seatbelt.
http://media.collegepublisher.co...ls/
956w8vh4.jpg
good point on defensive wounds- at the very least the last child shot should have turned away and had hands up if concious- also likely if concious would have benn moving around quite a bit after the first shots. If any of these kids are hit square in the head or chest from straight on then they were killed in their sleep.
jeez the old fishing trip excuse?? and the reason they are letting him walk around is that they for sure have multiple tail units on him at all times. they want this arrogant cocky guy to start believing more in his "genius" and keep hanging himself- either that or they literally are hoping he hangs himself and they can save the state some money!!!
I personally am hoping KV father puts a bullet in him.
ss. I don't think it's been reported exactly when CV alleged being shot by KV.
I had various scenarios in mind when trying a reenactment. Including thinking about him running away and being shot. That would make it really hard to be shot in the thigh with a graze to the wrist from one bullet from the angle of someone sitting in the passenger seat. (They said it was the same bullet.) Figure you have the steering wheel and the car door and frame and the limitations of sitting in the passenger seat.
We didn't use a gun. I have an antique one that is not functional but we made do with our hands.
Watti, I don't think they were going to Kim's mom's house. I remember hearing or reading that HIS mom and brother, I think, were coming to their house in Oswego to babysit. Which would be logical because the kids were in camp etc.
And it would have been one thing if CV said they were going to Kim's mom's house... it would sure have made much more sense than driving to springfield, then driving back to Chi, then driving back down to MO the next day.
If CV shot himself, then he would have done it while sitting in the SUV - to get the distance right and make it look like KV was the shooter he'd have to be arms-length away and that only works if he's inside the SUV.
I'm inclined to think that while seated CV rested his left arm over his privates (in the event his aim was off) and fired the gun from the passenger side toward his leg, causing the bullet to graze his wrist before hitting his thigh. This makes complete sense when you think about it b/c if you're trying to shoot yourself in the inner thigh you don't have much margin for error.
to the poster above who said your reaction should be to run away?? yes if your in south chicago and gang fire opens up- not when your 1 foot away from a weaker female who you know can barely hold up a gun and already missed you from point blank range and your kids are in the car.
he could have easily overpowered her before she got another shot off.
I agree he could have gotten the gun from her in 2 sec. flat.
Does anyone know the significance if
any to the black truck? Is this the
911 drivers's vehicle?
http://www.nbc5.com/slideshow/ne...736/
detail.html
Slide #40
Anonymous wrote: "She was my friend."
I hear you, Anonymous. I wish you could say more but I understand if you can't. I'm sorry that you've lost your friend and your kids' friends. If I had lost a friend in this manner, I'd want to talk about it too and I'd want her to be remembered the way that she was and I'd want the truth known. Anything else is not right.
I'm glad that you found us. I hope that you might be able to share more with us in the future.
joel--Absolutely. He could have wrestled the gun away from her--HE was bigger, HE had the experience with guns. We're supposed to believe he got grazed and then just sat there while four people died, or jumped out of the car after being shot and just stood there while all the commotion was going on? Or he went for a stroll while hearing multiple gunshots in the car?
Do we know for sure whether CV's thigh injury was to the INNER or OUTER thigh? The femoral arteries run through the inner third of the thighs, I believe. Gunshot to the femoral artery = probably fatal without medical attention within minutes. Obviously CV wasn't shot there. Did he research where to shoot?
On WBBM Newsradio's site, posted today:
http://tinyurl.com/2gxlu5
Has interesting statements about CV & firearms and about the address of his business in Illinois being a box at a UPS store. Nothing illegal or terribly weird about that other than it is consistent with his own business being done in a low profile minimal way. I would generally be less impressed by a business done from a UPS address.
ceedee--I thought I heard outer thigh (surprise!) but I can't remember where I heard or read it.
Chris went through the ladies in high school.
Remember the mother in Texas who hanged her 4 children in the closet before hanging herself, just a few weeks ago? They interviewed friends and family and everyone said she was an amazing mother and they just could not believe she would ever do something like this. That in no way means KV did this, but her being an amazing mom and people believing there is absolutely no way she could have done something like this also doesn't absolve her. What CV is saying all sounds hard to believe, but I think it is much harder for any of us to believe the alternative: that this loving mom could have done this and he is telling the truth.
ceedee, if it entry wound was in the left outer thigh, that would be really really tough to explain no matter how you look at it. I can't imagine that the entry wound is in the left outer thigh.
If KV shot at him as he alleges while he's in the car, the bullet cannot enter the left outer thigh unless he is in the driver's seat with his chest facing the back of the seat!
If he is outside the car, then he's standing facing towards the back of the car with his left side to the car. And leaning down so that the bullet can graze his wrist too. Not the position he'd be in if he's getting back in the car or exiting the car.
If CV shot himself, which is what I think he did, then he wouldn't be able to use his left hand to shoot himself since it is his left wrist that is grazed by a bullet. It would take an awkward angle to shoot himself in the left outer thigh with his right hand. Plus there is no good reason from what I know of the circumstances that he would have been shot in the left outer thigh as the entry point of the bullet.
If the bullet entered in the left outer thigh and grazed his left wrist too, then he would probably have been situated outside of the car and someone else would have been doing the shooting. And as I stated in a previous post, he should have been leaning/bending down to be hit in both the thigh and that portion of the wrist.
The mother in TX who hanged her 4 children before hanging herself recently was 1) a woman believed to be separated from her husband/partner who lived with her children in a mobile home, and 2) having extreme financial difficulty trying to support her family. She must have been under enormous stress and very depressed to have done what she did. Contrast KV: seemingly happy, forward-looking, married with an apparently comfortable financial life.
TracyLeigh: This link was posted earlier today to an article on a familicide in California and discusses reasons for parents committing familicide:
"Behind dad's slaying of family"
http://tinyurl.com/26wyej
Here is an interesting quote from the article:
"Levinson said a homicide-suicide scenario within a family is uncommon because most people who are capable of homicide won't kill themselves, and the majority of people who commit suicide are not homicidal. The possibilities as to what drove Morrissey, Levinson concluded, "could be all of the above or none. We just don't know.""
There is no evidence other than what CV alleges that KV knew of anything that would have caused her to snap. And if she did know of something, she had a supportive family whom she knew would take good care of her children in the event that she suddenly felt so upset that she was suicidal. If she felt homicidal, it would not have been towards her children.
Anon:
Perhaps he did but he has since hopped of the fashion train and lost his looks.
Anonymous, I know this must hurt deeply. I do and I didn't even know them. I hope you'll be able to love your family with all your heart, it can be hard to read messageboards about crime like this because you can get whacky opinions tossed out without any respect to the victims. It's just the nature of them and you have to be strong enough to not let it bother you or just step away and love your family. If it's any consolation, at least one daddy/husband far away has had a special appreciation for his own family lately.
svelte, I don't think looks or fashion matter to a lot of women. Some women are impressed by a guy who appears to be good at something. Even some guys are impressed by guys like that. There appear to be people who have been that kind of impressed with CV.
Ginny,
Some guys are??? Like, "Why can't I quit you?"
-ss
(still awaiting the forensics results and more facts on the case)
Ginny,
This is good information. Because actually, with Andrea Yates and the mom from "Small Sacrifices" they didn't kill themselves - only their kids - which fits the either/or for homocide/suicide. In light of that profile then it has to be CV as we know that at least 3 killings were homocides.
Other than the TX mom (and I also heard that she was having money and relationship problems)are there any other exceptions to this rule that you can think of? Just out of curiosity.
That smirk on CV's face reminds me of Scott Peterson. His "cleverness" didn't work out so well and it's only a matter of time before CV will be in an orange jumpsuit.
If you look at the satellite pics his choice of a spot to adjust the luggage doesn't make any sense. He got off the highway on to a frontage road, then took a right on Bluff, then a left on to the second frontage road, then drove down a block to the cell phone tower. Who finds a secluded spot to check the luggage with kids in the car?
This guy is so guilty it's not even funny. I bet he had an accomplice. But who would help this loser?
This person make a good point on the
seatbelt on the court tv board:
I clearly see a seatbelt way up high on her body under her left underarm going up towards the neck area on the right side. It's not across the boobs (as it would be for an upright person) but above the boobs.
And for those of you that can't see it...what's holding her body up at that angle if there isn't a seatbelt? The laws of gravity apply to dead bodies as well.
Last edited by twinkiesmom on 06-21-2007 at 09:24 PM
I can't wait to see his face on the Illinois State prison imate site!
If he "went through" the ladies in high school, odd he would he marry at 19 unless it was shotgun. The oldest girl was born December 15, 1994. Wonder what their wedding date was? I sense a guy who never got to party and sow wild oats when he should have.
I still don't see the seatbelt in that picture. And as discussed earlier, it wouldn't make any sense for her to do this (or to be set up to look like the shooter) with her seatbelt fastened. As for gravity, she is slumped over - to the side.
I wonder if when he got out to "check" to luggage carrier if he went around to her side opened the door shot her and then the children. Then the angle would be right for it to look like she had done it.
I couldn't see it either, but I can't see what would stop her totally being slumped over? And how convenient, looks like a towel on her lap, why would it still be on her lap around supposedly franticly shooting-up the back seat?
So a newbie with a semi-auto tends to drop the barrel huh? That explains it! KV shot CV in the thigh and as he ran toward the back of the vehicle, she shot at him 3 more times, tracking his movements in the dark! bBut her barrel was too low and each shot went into one of her children! Upon seeing her grievous mistake, she 'offed' herself!
Sick..... He's guilty.
Does Illinois still have a hiatus on the Death Penalty? I'll bet that factored into CV's risk mitigation plan...the one where he said, 'If I get caught...at least I won't fry'.
I zoomed way in on her lap, and it looks like that might be her purse or a bag on her left leg that she's clutching with her left hand? That wouldn't make much sense either as you'd think she'd either have moved her purse to turn and shoot up the car if she was the shooter or at the very least it would have fallen to the side - this makes it look like after firing at least 7 shots at her husband and kids, she turned back around in her seat, calmly picked up her purse put it back on her lap and killed herself...I don't think so.
I knew Kim for about a year, and live here in Oswego, IL. All I can say is that Kim was a wonderful mother, friend and would NEVER, ever think about hurting her children.
My husband and I were never introduced to Chris, but I can honestly say that in my heart of hearts, I cannot imagine Kim as the shooter. The story from Chris just does not add up.
Brian re: IL's possible hiatus on the death penalty. I thought of that today while having lunch with my hubby. Now on the other hand, if the Vs had lived in Texas, where I live, we could be quite sure CV would do the dead man's walk at some point within the next decade or so.
I'm sick thinking that KV's family is going to have to be in the same room with this piece of sh*t and watch some people comfort HIM about his loss.
Holy Cow... GREAT points about whatever the item is on her lap!
Illinois has suspended the death penalty for the time being.
People who say CV wouldn't kill because he would realize he couldn't get away with it--men like that are above all arrogant. They think a Scott Peterson or a Mark Hacking just didn't do it right--and that HE is the smart one who will think of all the angles and cover his tracks.
Dunno why I didn't pose this before: the passerby didn't say anything abt other blood on CV. IF (and a big if) I had stepped away to avoid shots from an angry/cracked wife, then heard the other shots, I'd be back in a flash and all over the victims for any sign of life, and bleeding that might be stanched. Four people shot -- must be some odds that one might survive, have a pulse. And that would be messy, checking. And how anyone could muster a smile after a familicide is beyond me.
Quack, quack...
Yes it could be a purse, but I lean towards towel for CV's convenience.
Since you have blown up the picture,
see there doesn't seem to be any reason
why Kim wouldn't have slumped over
further? Any thoughts here?
I downloaded that pic a few days ago and enlarged it. I thought that the object on her knee that is light was a pillow or a map. A pillow would be logical for a trip at night.
Dee -- I have driven a similar/identical SUV: the center console is quite high and bulky. And didn't an earlier poster say the belt is in fact still on her? Hence, little slump.
I really don't think she has a seatbelt on, and she is slumped back and to the side. The center console there will stop her from going all the way over, and it appears from the body angle that she is actually slumped backward slightly between the seats.
I'm the one from the CourtTV boards who saw the seatbelt...
Look directly above her left boob...there is a grey diagonal stripe where you don't see any white in the plaid on her shirt.
Now, if we agree she's in her belt, and there's no spatter visible on her front from supposedly blasting 6 bullets min into her loved ones ... I ask again, where'd the blood outside the passenger side front come from? Clearly visible in two pix I saw, one each from front & rear.
The no-blood-from-chin-shot I maybe understand, maybe, b/c if she died instantly, blood flow stopped as fast. And it's the top of her body, so less to drain. But still...
Sorry I never watched CSI, I guess.
I still don't think that's a seatbelt. The pic quality isn't very good, but her shirt does have dark stripes like this (see her stomach) and you can't see the belt on her arm at all. Given the direction she's leaning you should be able to see the tension in the belt near the door if she had it on. Also, no lap belt is visible.
Mary L: Where exactly is the CourtTV board? I went to message boards and didn't see it...
Also, the area you point out appears to be where the rear view mirror is.
Mary L. what are you using to blow the picture up? I copied it to word and it is too grainy for me.
I pray that seatbelt was on and that is a purse on her lap. Anyonomous or Kelly
did Kim have a white purse or beach bag do you know? But even if it was a pillow or map it should have fallen.
Court is at http://tinyurl.com/34wvkg , but TCB here is much better. Hard to say why. Some useful bits have migrated over from Court, though, for sure.
On WGN radio in Chicago this morning a lady called in and said that she lives right off that road, and her sons were driving home and saw a pickup truck in the middle of road blocking it. They drove around it but there was a guy outside of it and when he saw them he ran and got in the truck. They just pulled around it and went into their driveway but it seemed suspicious to them so they took a real good look at the truck and the guy. Then the next morning they called the police when they heard what happened and I guess they have been out to re-interview them twice. Seems pretty weird a pickup truck was lurking around the neighborhood at the same time it happened.
The mother who called in said that her sons said that it WAS the same pickup truck, but the timeline doesn't work out because her sons said it was blocking the street at around midnight. They also said that the man they saw was not driving, he jumped into the passenger seat. The police were asking very spcecific details about what the man looked like, what was he wearing,did they see who was driving, ect.
I see something just above her breasts in that picture rather than a seatbelt, I'm thinking it's shadow from the mirror, a branch or perhaps part of the chopper the image was taken from. To me, it looks somewhat translucent, and rather than continuing/starting on the side closest to the door, it looks like whatever it is blends in with one of the stripes on her shirt. It also looks to go too far back to be a belt, and if it were, under one armpit and over the other arm just above the elbow as I'm seeing it, makes no sense to me.
Dee, A "towel for CV's convenience"? Why would KV have a towel for CV's convenience on her lap?
I've been married a whole lot of years and I've never had a towel for my husband's convenience on my lap while he's driving. What would such a towel be used for?
Whathappened:
I am confused about the blood outside the car as well as the lack on the front of her shirt. Maybe the press report was wrong on "shot under the chin"?
Ginny, I meant for CV to use her hand to shoot (instead of gloves perhaps), but it would be odd for her to have a towel in the front seat. Studying the picture of what's on her lap, I now don't think it was a purse or pillow, because of the odd shape and am leaning towards a map, towel or beach bag.
I wonder if LE has checked the I-PASS account to see if there were any tolls gone though and at what time. I know there isn't any tollbooths from Oswego to the location where the SUV was found, but the I-Pass is visible in the window and it clearly might have clues that might mean something.
Dee, If CV did use something to cover his hand to shoot, I'm about as sure as I can be that he wouldn't leave it in the car. Because of forensics. That would be analyzed up,down and sideways by LE.
I do believe that he must have used something to cover his hand though. But not something that was still in the car when LE got there.
Or he found a way to clean his hand off of any gunpowder residue.
Long time lurker and faithful reader of this webblog.
Question: I have noticed in the aerial images/video of the crime scene some of the doors to the suv are open. If you notice the rear drivers side door is open and it appears that something is hanging out of the vehicle and visible from the video. Does anyone know what this may be? I may be wrong, but I think the doors to the vehicle were not touched by police on scene and left them as they found them. If that is the case why would that be? Any thoughts?
I'm wondering if he didn't hire a professional killer? It's almost like a gangland killing. That's the only thing that makes sense to me about the time & the secluded location. It was like they were set up for an ambush.
Has anyone else noticed the branches up against the driver side of the SUV? Would he have been able to exit from that side and adjusted the luggage carrier? Or, would he have to walk around the front to the passenger side? He obviously stood at the passenger side for some time because of the pool of blood showing up on the greenery on that side.
Can someone post the link to the aerial views again?
http://www.nbc5.com/slideshow/ne...736/
detail.html
New story is Chicago Tribune says immediately after CV picked up he told LE he couldn't remember what happened:
http://tinyurl.com/yotyc7
This is new:
He said he got out to adjust a luggage rack atop the SUV and, while getting back in the vehicle, noticed his leg was bleeding, the sources said. Vaughn said he told Kimberly he was going for help, the sources said. He flagged down a passerby in a black truck, and asked him to call 911, police said.
What happened to "...shot my wife.....somebody shot my wife?"
?
And he says "his wife felt sick" so he left the road, drove all the way down a frontage road, and onto a road leading to a cell phone tower--shrouded by trees.
What about taking her to, you know, a BATHROOM?
this story is getting stranger and stranger....his leg is bleeding and he walks away from the car to get help? Makes absolutely no sense at all.
Can anyone please post the story, says you need a paid subscription:
I'll post it....hold on.....
Father's reaction detailed
Survivor of SUV deaths reportedly couldn't recall what happened
By Hal Dardick
Tribune staff reporter
Published June 21, 2007, 8:47 PM CDT
In the hours immediately after his wife and children were found dead in their family sport-utility vehicle off Interstate Highway 55 in rural Will County, a wounded Chris Vaughn told police he could not remember what happened to him and his family, according to sources close to the investigation.
Vaughn, 32, of Oswego said he knew only that he had been wounded and had gone for help, the sources said. He asked if his wife, Kimberly, had been told what happened to him, the sources said.
The sources, all interviewed in recent days, painted the most detailed picture to date of Vaughn's initial account of what happened that day. Their account also provides greater detail as to Vaughn's wounds, and it differs from other media reports that Vaughn told police his wife shot him.
While at the Provena St. Joseph Medical Center emergency room in Joliet on June 14, where he was being treated for a gunshot wound in his left thigh and a graze wound in his left wrist, he told police that his wife felt sick, so he pulled onto a frontage road, then onto a tree-shaded cell-tower access road in Channahon Township, the sources said.
He said he got out to adjust a luggage rack atop the SUV and, while getting back in the vehicle, noticed his leg was bleeding, the sources said. Vaughn said he told Kimberly he was going for help, the sources said. He flagged down a passerby in a black truck, and asked him to call 911, police said.
When police arrived, they found a grisly scene in the SUV. Kimberly, 34, and their three children—Blake, 8, Cassandra, 11, and Abigayle, 12—were all dead. Each of the children, all in the back seat, had been shot multiple times, police said. Kimberly, in the passenger's seat, was shot once in the head, sources said.
While at the hospital, Vaughn asked whether someone had notified his wife, adding that she gets upset when she doesn't know where he is, the sources said. He told police his family left their Oswego home before 5 a.m., to go to a Springfield water park and return home in time for a soccer game one of his daughters was to play in that afternoon.
He also mentioned that he and his wife planned to go to Missouri for the weekend, to stay at the bed and breakfast where they honeymooned in their home state more than a decade ago.
Vaughn told police he could not remember what happened after he was wounded and did not hear any gunshots, the sources said. He also said he had not placed a handgun in the SUV, the sources said.
The handgun used in the incident was found in the SUV, as was at least one cell phone, the sources said.
The wound in his wrist was minor, while the bullet that entered the top of his thigh, from his right side, passed out the left side of the thigh, the sources said.
Vaughn was treated for his injuries at the ho
Well, this latest story is not from LE, it's from a "source close to the investigation". This may be true, it may not be, I will continue to await facts from LE.
-ss
........
Vaughn was treated for his injuries at the hospital and released. He then went to Illinois State Police District 5 headquarters, where he submitted to more than 12 hours of voluntary questioning that ended early on the morning of June 15. He returned later in the day for two more hours of questioning and again on Sunday for an undisclosed period of time.
Trooper Mark Dorencz, a spokesman for District 5, declined to comment on the sources' version of events or address what Vaughn told police during subsequent interviews, after he left the hospital. "I can't discuss the investigation," he said.
Police have declined to identify Vaughn as a suspect, and they also have declined to say whether they believe his wife was murdered. They have said the incident was confined to the family, raising the question of who pulled the trigger.
Chris liked to hunt and was familiar with firearms, according to friends and family. Kimberly, by contrast, had limited experience with weapons.
Kimberly recently told her neighbor, Tony Bridges, about one time when she went to a gun range with Chris. She said she struggled to control the weapon's recoil, only hitting the target's center when she closed her eyes.
"She said [Chris] kind of snickered and laughed," added Bridges, who said he had no idea when the couple went to the gun range. Friends of Kimberly who live near Seattle, where the Vaughns lived before moving to the area about two years ago, said she twice went with her husband to a gun range in that area.
Police on Wednesday made a second trip to Oswego to search the Vaughn home, carrying out computers, printers and cable boxes. A source said the search was done, in part, to determine if anyone in the family had seen the May 8 episode of "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit."
In that episode, a man leading a double life escapes with a minor wound to his scalp from a shooting incident that left his wife and children dead. He initially claims she did it, but police later charged him with the crime.
In the Vaughn case, police still await the results of some forensic tests, which they have said will be key to determine what happened to the Vaughn family on June 14.
Tests being conducted include efforts to link blood-spatter patterns with DNA analysis, as well as analyses of bullet trajectories and gunpowder residue.
Vaughn, police said, continues to cooperate with the investigation. He is in Missouri preparing for the family's funeral. Visitation is scheduled for Friday, and the funeral is set for Saturday.
there is also no way you are going to drive to springfield to a water park and be back for a game in the afternoon. I thought Scott P. was incredibly stupid in his arrogance, this man is actually ahead of Scott P. in the area of arrogance and stupidity. if... the story the Tribune is reporting is true.
I have played around with the photo in PaintShopPro with the original photo increased to 400% and noise removed, enhanced saturation and contrast. I still see an opaque shape breaking up the plaid on the shirt on her left side (right side as you look at her).
I do not see a lap belt, but if it could be tucked into the pelvis region (below the stomach) and would be largely obscured by what I believe is a large white purse on her lap.
If there is no seatbelt, I would like to know what is holding her up in that position...it looks like she would fall over onto the driver's side.
I know some of you can't see it, but try the experiment at home in the passenger side of your own car. If you slump down and towards the left, the seatbelt shoulder harnessshould catch you under the left underarm and wrap around your right neck (out of the frame of this photo).
Thanks Marcia...I think his mouth is going to hang him and sounds like he's covering his ass if he missed or misspoke on something as well as an insanity plead worse case. Good stuff thanks.
The Tribune story defies belief. Doesn't match up with anything we have been led to believe. And if you have a cellphone in the car, why would u go for help and flag someone down to call 911? Cmon. Is this event ever going to make sense?
Mary, I have an iMac. I enlarged the photo and rotated it 90 degrees. It appeared to me she was wearing a seat belt on 2 of the rotations. But, when I studied it from the front, it seemed like what I was looking at was a strong shadow.
Having gone and looked at other photos, I now realize there is walking space on the driver's side. The bright reddish-orange spot on the ground on the passenger side could be bark? I'm thinking blood would be a darker red.
Still, this story gets more and more bizaare. The I can't remember defense when questioned by the police. Asking for his wife at the hospital.
What did really happen in that car?
question for IL bloggers: do these FOID cards reference the serial number(s) for any and all guns the gunowner owns- well at least legally owned ones- so LE would know instantly whether the gun found in the car was registered to CV, since he claims in the Tribune story he didn't bring his gun?
Who used the I-can't-remember defense recently? Was it Mark Hacking?
nwlogic: great question, esp. since the ISP has taken the position out of Springfield that they will not reveal any FOID info in this case.
Those branches on the driver's side of the SUV are still bugging me. They cover the driver's side. You would have to push them off to the side in order to adjust the luggage carrier.
Mark Hacking created story after story after story. He killed his wife while she was sleeping. He went shopping for a new mattress before he called 911.
I wonder if the Vaughn family were murdered while sleeping?
where did you find the pics from the back, I know there is one where the officer is glancing into the back seat. I just cant find it again
New Info from the Chicago Tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/ne...ll=chi-news-
hed
His telling LE that KV got sick and he parked at the cellphone tower is ludicrous. I googled the satellite image today for the first time. Even assuming that KV got sick suddenly and he missed the prior exit with the McD's and took Bluff Rd.- the next exit- you'd take the offramp and turn right on Bluff and pull over immediately, not take the frontage road. This exit would be confusing for anyone not familiar with the area (CV had to know it) since you come off the offramp and it looks like there is an island at the intersection so you can't go straight back on the freeway onramp. You would have to turn right and make a partial U-turn to get the onramp. Strange configuration there. Turning right and then the first true left takes you on the frontage road. But it won't get you back on the freeway and just past the Bluff Rd. exit on I-55 is a large bridge. The frontage road goes way down to a marina and around the corner to a gravel yard or something. The only thing frontage rd gives you is a long straight stretch of road between Bluff and the Marina with no other visible driveways or buildings besides the celltower. No visibility from the freeway or the onramp because of the trees right there and plenty of opportunity to see any vehicles from either direction. No way is that coincidental in the least.
This detailed account makes no sense!!! I'm sorry, I've never been shot, but I think you'd feel it. You wouldn't just notice there was blood and say, hey honey, I'm gonna run off for help?? If he thought someone was shooting at him, wouldn't he jump in the car and grab his cell phone?? Sounds like now he's trying to take back his initial story of "she did it" by implying that perhaps there was a crazed gunman there ... arghh!!! I can't take it anymore. Will LE please just arrest him already???
HE DID IT. sheesh. Studies that have been posted here say for the most part women don't kill their families this way. Probably the only thing Mr. Vaughn didn't research. I want to know why. Other than nuttiness of course.
I have a friend that lives out that way and swung by the site. At 5:00 am the freeways are thick with traffic. He had to go where he went to HIDE. End of story. Why is what I want to know.
did cv marry the same year as the OJ murders??
I would like to add, that if you got injured or hurt, shot whatever the case with him, why did he run on foot and not drive away from there and get help with his family with him, instead of like he says he ran for help?????? and thus leaving them there in danger?? what a loser
"......the bullet that entered the top of his thigh, from his right side, passed out the left side of the thigh, the sources said."
Anybody got a theory?
vj--I was trying to find out when they got married. Abby born in December 1994. OJ murders were June 1994. Why?
vj:
Hundreds of people got married either the same year as OJ killed his wife or the same year as CV and KV did whether or not they are the same makes no difference and has no bearing on what happened.
KOOKIE.
What really happened in that car? Kids were drugged (unbeknowst to mom). Put asleep in the car to go to the water park. All is well. Dad drives off the highway with an excuse and shoots everybody. Makes up crazy story(ies)
CV's college career corrected in the St. Louis Dispatch Website:
Corrections:
— Christopher Vaughn, whose family was killed last week in the Chicago area, attended but did not graduate from the University of Missouri-Rolla. A report in Sunday's Metro section incorrectly reported his academic career.
Marcia: Just a wierd thought came to me re OJ.
Maybe CV said to KV at the time of marriage that he would do an OJ if she ever cheated on him.
Read people. OJ and this? A connection? Total paranoia. Get a life. Lot's of people of died, murdered and married since then. You folks are nuts.
IT WILL NEVER MAKE SENSE. HE IS NUTS. lol And I am starting to think some of you are too.
Svelte maybe we all are nuts But
then what's a sane person like you
doing here???
Hey folks don't type all the
way to the right margin.
The words on the right get cut
off.
Because this blog reads like a bad crime novel. We keep coming back to see what someone is going to come up with next- incest scenarios, brokeback scenarios, Mexican gf, OJ parallels. Its way too hard to resist. lol
Nothing in this most recent article about CV's first account of what happened has changed my mind.
But I am taken aback by the differing accounts by media & "sources" as to what was told to LE.
CV saying he didn't remember what happened versus CV blaming KV for shooting everyone are two different stories.
But anyway, I agree with others who have noted the discrepancies in this version of the story too. They couldn't have gone to Springfield and gotten back in time for an afternoon game. How could CV not have heard gunshots if there had been gunshots while he was out of the car and nearby or shooting the gun himself? How did they manage to go on this early morning drive to begin with? The trip that no one else knew about? LE has spent a lot of hours talking with him. He must have said something more than that he couldn't remember stuff.
As for where he was shot in the thigh, that is consistent with what I suggested earlier, that he was sitting in the driver's seat and shot himself by aiming the gun from his far right.
I hope that he is arrested soon and that media gets its sources whipped into shape!
vj,
To correct the words from being cut off on the right, go up to just above the first post in the thread where the number of comments are listed. Click on the number. The posts will then appear with all of the lines readable all the way across with nothing missing.
I was having the same problem earlier today and someone gave us the solution.
vj, (I am retyping and reposting
this so that you can read it all
the way across.)
To correct the words from being cut
off on the right, go up to just
above the first post in the thread
where the number of comments are
listed. Click on the number.
The posts will then appear with all
of the lines readable all the way
across with nothing missing.
I was having the same problem
earlier today and someone gave us
the solution.
Maybe I'm half-cracked here but when I look at the photo, I clearly see the seat belt "latch" directly across from her right elbow. The "dark spot" looks to me like the rear view mirror.
Ginny thanx I got it now!
I give up...at this point I don't trust any of these reports...though the one consistency seems to be this luggage rack story, but why if his wife is sick would he also need to adjust the luggage rack? No way do I buy the story of him casually realizing he was bleeding, looking up to KV, telling her calmly that he's going to go get help...help for what - if he didn't know he'd been shot...grrr. Besides, as mentioned above, if he didn't know how he'd been hurt, he'd just get in the car and drive for help. Also, if he really claims he didn't hear shots, perhaps we'll find out that the gun did have a silencer. This one gets weirder and scarier by the hour.
sessa, I agree that the dark spot is the rear view mirror.
Where is this seat belt photo?
Can someone give the thread?
Seatbelt shot from upthread:
http://media.collegepublisher.co...ls/
956w8vh4.jpg
Okay, sorry the link doesn't seem to work? It was originally posted in a post by watti at 3:15 PM on 6/21.
The guy drove at least 25 miles out of the way to end up in Channahon, on a trip to Springfield. Look at an Illinois map. You will see how far east he drove only head to southwest on I-55. The short route from Oswego is Illinois Route 47 out of neighboring Yorkville, IL to Dwight, IL to pick up I-55 for a trip to Springfield.
William, someone else mentioned that a couple days ago but a resident of that area said the way that would seem to be "direct" actually had many lights and maybe wouldn't necessarily be faster timewise even with shorter mileage. Just fyi.
I agree. I looked at the map too. But I would take a freeway over a 2 lane road at that time of day- 2 a.m. to 6 a.m.- when the percentage of accidents during the predawn hours is incredibly high- mostly due to drunk drivers. I'd feel safer on a freeway any day.
So I guess this latest news information from a "close source" pretty much takes all the wind out of the sails of all the theories about whether he told her he was having an affair and she killed him and the kids over it, and a whole bunch of other ideas we had about, well, everything he was supposedly happened including the "reported murmurings" about "she shot my kids" etc that he said to the passerby.
After this whole week of waiting and wondering what the heck happened, I don't have it in me now to try to figure out his "amnesia" alibi.
good luck to the rest of you!
FWIW, both Google & Mapquest directions match up to the route he was taking to get to Springfield. Perhaps he was unaware of any "shortcut".
CORRECTION: Mapquest DOES tell you to use Route 47 to get to 55. My bad! Apparently, he's a Googler.
NW, let's not forget about Obama and Hillary C! lol.
Circumspect, I can relate!
update:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/
met...chann22.article
From the updtae article, Joe Jacobson is the attorney for the family. He is a friend of mine and a great attorney. They are in good hands.
Sounds like the initial press reports may have confused what LE "believed" to have happened with what CV actually "told" LE. 2 different things. Until there's official statements take everything from the press with a grain of salt.
Also, his story and reaction is consistent with someone in shock. If he had been in the SUV and completely surprised by KV's actions he would have been a) in shock b) quite possibly deaf for a period of minutes.
People saying "CV did it because KV would NEVER have killed her kids" are missing the point. The kids being killed are precisely strongest evidence that KV did it. It would take a real sociopath do plan and do something like this in cold blood. No indication CV was a sociopath or had an prior indication of this. Killing his wife? Maybe. But planning and staging and killing the kids? What kind of monster would do that? And be able to hide that type of personality for all these years? That's what points to somebody snapping. And he doesn't seem to have snapped.
HOW MANY SHOTS FIRED?: Sounds like too many without reloading (typical 6 for revolver a few more for auto); most people I know don't carry extra ammo.
If I just told you I was going leave you for my lover, and you wouldn't be getting any child support because the kids you thought were sleeping are really dead and I gave you a gun....This is the only way I see KV shooting herself.
If there is blood on the window, why is the body so far to the left (assuming photo shows undisturbed scene) Regarding seatbelt, if it's not holding her up what is?; most of the weight is on her right cheek-the body looks as if it was shifted post rigor mortis. Why is the rear door open? Were the secondary shots fired at that point?
Yo, Chris you better be sure you have better stories to tell ISP.
I, for one, am NOT saying that KV didn't do it because she would never have killed the kids. (Although I agree that she never would have killed the kids.) I am saying that KV is not likely to have killed her kids because, from what we DO know, there are many odd things about the story that don't add up and CV only has a flesh wound of the thigh and a graze to his wrist. The odd things in the story are connected to CV's actions and decisions and to his having minor wounds and having survived a slaughter in the car.
In this morning's article linked above by Ace, it is reported that he has changed his story several times.
The position of the wound in his thigh and the graze to his wrist are consistent with him having shot himself while sitting in the car. Try different positions yourself and get your left thigh, your left wrist, and something to represent a gun (like your finger) to line up. It is unlikely that he was shot by someone shooting from the passenger seat. If you hadn't seen my earlier long post about his wounds, scroll up and you will find it.
There is still no one living other than CV who has reported hearing of the trip to Springfield. There is no way that they would have gone to a water park in Springfield and intended to come back for an afternoon soccer game. The place by the cell tower where he went either because KV was allegedly feeling sick and/or he allegedly needed to adjust the luggage rack was not an easy place to find and not the kind of place that is logical for that kind of stop.
Since his stories keep changing, I am thinking that whatever he might have done to try to deceive anyone forensically won't add up any better than his stories do.
His family said he was considering a divorce, but her family knew nothing about it. One doesn't rule out the other--maybe he told his family and not KV. It reminds me a lot of Scott Peterson's 'I told Laci about the affair and she was okay with it' lie.
Maybe he was using the lack of memory story so that he might be able to plead to a lesser charge if he made a mistake that was clear once they analyze the forensics.
Perhaps he may want LE to believe (as an alternate theory) that HE snapped and that it wasn't premeditated IF the forensics don't show that KV was the shooter. Some cons like to have an "ace in the hole". So that if one thing doesn't work out, then they'll use something else. In this case CV would want to have more than one avenue of escape from the consequences. A lack of memory can cover a lot of scenarios.
If he did say he had a lack of memory, then that doesn't explain at all the account of the passerby who called 911 and who is alleged to have said that CV was muttering "she killed my kids". But then I don't know if that's an accurate report or not. If accurate, it doesn't agree with his telling LE he didn't remember what happened.
Edgarpoe- I'm not a psychiatrist or expert on human behavior, but I disagree with your second to last paragraph. It sounds to me like he DID display a personality of the kind of guy who wants everything HIS way. Obviously everyword of everything everyone has written about him could be rumor, conjecture or just plain imaginative thinking - BUT no one has said anything about what a nice guy he was. Neighbors have said he was cold and aloof, controlling, OR said they knew her very well but had never met him. The remembrance of him from H.S. is that he was "different" "out there" and a young womanizer. In the family photo he's struck a pose of independence and I think he's kinda smirking. He is clearly smiling in the photo of him leaving his parents home a few days ago. He's one cold dude.
I do agree with your last sentence, "He doesn't seem to have snapped." Nope, he's cool as a cucumber - changed his story about it apparently - tried playing the amnesia card - but snapping isn't what happened with him. The SNAPPING was supposed to have been what everyone was attributing to the scenario of why his wife whould deliberately kill the kids and herself (while only inflicting a minor boo boo on him.)
edgarpoe:
I have to disagree stongly with your last paragraph, except "it would take a real sociopath to plan and do something like this." I read a scary statistic that said 2 out of 10 people are sociopaths, with varying degrees, but scary none the less and you usually cannot spot them for a long period of time (years I think was mentioned). In this case if it's true he told a relative he wanted a divorce, why the romantic weekend? Shows he hides his feelings. Also, his very brief conversation with Kim's Mom, note he didn't express any emotion and didn't say something like "no matter what you hear, I loved Kim & the kids and would never hurt them or..." The lack of expression to her Mom, leads me to believe he is a sociopath as well as this was planned, can't say well planned because of the waterpark, ridiculous story.
Marcia. Good point about what Scott Peterson said.
Yeah, CV told KV that he wanted a divorce and that is why she had been so happy about their upcoming romantic getaway? And she never told her sister or parents?
I wonder if the relative who said that CV told them he wanted a divorce are either of his parents and if they are the same relatives who were reported as being surprised and who thought CV and KV were very happy right up to when they talked to LE?
Edgar - I meant to say "second to last sentence, not paragraph". sorry, don't mean to be confusing, just haven't had coffee yet!
edgarpoe--Crime annals are replete with seemingly good, upstanding citizens who plotted, planned and carried out the most heinous crimes.
I'm suggesting he was a girl-chaser in high school who got KV pregnant (why I'm trying to find out their wedding date now that we know Abby's birth date). Too-early marriage. But things went seemingly well for them, they had three beautiful kids and outward material success for a relatively young couple. This could have contributed to a sense of cockiness and entitlement on his part because things came with ease--so now he wanted the things he missed, perhaps other women or just freedom to do what he wanted--without the financial price of a divorce.
I thought I saw the unlatched seatbelt, but actually it is daylight coming through the crack between the open rear door and the seat.
Also another reason why I think he is a sociopath is after "all" these visits with the police he hasn't lawyered up. If it were me and I was innocent, I would have gotten a lawyer after I told my story to my satisfaction and was getting no where, say on the 2nd visit. There comes a time, that you have to draw the line and get a lawyer to protect you. He obviously has intelligence by his experience in forensic accounting, so I feel he is arrogant and still believes he can talk his way out of this. On the bright side, I now think they will "NAIL HIM". I hate to think he will be at the funeral tomorrow...the height of added insult.
DUH! I'm so witless! Their wedding date was obviously June 17th--the "romantic getaway". Abby born less than six months later. There you have it.
edgarpoe wrote: "The kids being killed are precisely strongest evidence that KV did it. It would take a real sociopath do plan and do something like this in cold blood. No indication CV was a sociopath or had an prior indication of this. Killing his wife? Maybe. But planning and staging and killing the kids? What kind of monster would do that? And be able to hide that type of personality for all these years? That's what points to somebody snapping. And he doesn't seem to have snapped."
I am puzzled at anyone thinking that women just snap. As though it is a psychiatric diagnosis. People just snap and do inexplicable things? We all could do this? Anyone faced with divorce could grab a gun and shoot their whole family in the heat of emotion? Anyone? Yup, "snapping". People snap like branches? In this particular case of the Vaughns, this idea of "snapping" has been used a lot.
In cases in the past where someone has done something that we describe as snapping, there are warning signs. There are circumstances that explain it and personality types that result in impulsive behavior. Things like bipolar disorder or psychotic depression or complete emotional devastation that makes someone think they are doing everyone else a favor by killing them. But people don't just snap and do things that run completely opposite to their personality and history with no warning at all.
Someone with a history of using guns who is considering divorce whose inner thoughts are not well known to most who know him -- someone like that -- well for all we know such a man might be the monster that you mention. It is possible and when the unthinkable happens, it is much more likely that the monster in the car was the one sitting in the driver's seat (in more than one sense) rather than the woman in the passenger seat.
"CORRECTION: Mapquest DOES tell you to use Route 47 to get to 55. My bad! Apparently, he's a Googler.
Trixie B. | 06.22.07 - 2:05 am"
Trixie,
I wouldn't go as far as saying "he was a googler." He was a realist and probably was well familiar with Chicago traffic, and specifically, SW chicago burb traffic. The way he allegedly drove was the "quickest" way, not the "shortest". There are many routes I personally take around the Chicago area that take me, 5, 10, 20 sometimes 30 miles out of the way just because it actually is much "quicker", and time is one of the fewest commodities we have that we can't replace.
-ss
As far as which route they were taking: Don't forget that they both knew their way back and forth to St. Louis and Springfield is right on the way. I'm sure they both knew the quickest way back and forth from their house to all points south... depending on the time of day/traffic.
Marcia - It's funny when information is right in front of your face and you're looking for it. I think we all figured their first child wasn't conceived with the benefit of matrimony, but we didn't know her birthdate until we saw the obit. We just knew she was 12 and they were celebrating their 13th anniv.
I think he must have been mature for his age for a 21 year old girl to marry a 19 year old guy back then... It does happen, of course, but more commonly seen are 19 year old guys with younger teenage girls. I think he definitely knew a good thing when he saw it
The Springfield water park story sounds even more suspicious now that we hear they were supposedly going to be back in time for a soccer game. Last weekend was HOT here. Why would you drag three active pre-teens all the way to Springfield for a matter of hours--let alone arrive there before the place opened--and then tear back for a soccer game? The Oswego Park district has a beautiful, spacious aquatic park with slides, fountains, cabanas, food, sandboxes--you name it. Little kids go there, parents, older kids. Both my 8 year old daughter and 15 year old son go all the time. The Vaughn kids had their own subdivision pool, so if they wanted something more exciting they could go to THEIR OWN CIVIC CENTER just a few miles away.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that KV WOULD have killed herself if someone killed her kids. I think it's interesting that LE is focusing on them being drugged. IF CV somehow pulled off killing the kids and KV woke up and saw that... Well, I certainly know what I would do.
I live about 15 miles from the crime scene. Yesterday I took a drive re-tracing CV's route going southbound on 55. This guys story has absolutely no credibility to it. There is a very short distance between the well lit route 6 exit and the next exit after route 6. He could have pulled off at an exit with a BP station connected to a McDonald's. It is clearly visable from the highway. As I pulled off on the Bluff road exit and turned right and then made a left onto the frontage road I have to say I felt a bit uneasy. I went down as far as the Marina and then turned around. I'm not sure if I even saw the exact spot but there is nothing blocked off in that area. I'm still not sure if CV pulled off past the Marina or right before?
Curioser327 wrote: "IF CV somehow pulled off killing the kids and KV woke up and saw that... Well, I certainly know what I would do."
I know what I would do too and if I didn't have a gun I'd have done it with my bare hands. (Kill myself later? Doubtful. However, I don't know how I would deal in the longterm with that kind of loss. It's more likely I'd have gone to work to prevent tragedies like this from happening. Don't know if prevention is possible though.)
Oops. I meant curious327. Not curioser327.
Meanwhile, every 10 minutes on MSNBC they have missing pregnant woman updates, while a quadruple homicide and suspicious husband/father go under the radar.......
What about this theory?
KV has actually set up CV? Picture this scenario...
CV tells KV about the affair weeks ago (it is my understanding we do not have a time of this confession). KV is absolutely devastated, but thinks about what it would be like to tell her family and friends that this perfect family and life was actually a sham - a failure. After several days, she has a sit down with CV and tells him she forgives him and they will work through this - even planning the romatic get away in June. All the while keeping up the perfect family act with family and friends. All the while inside she realizes she does not want to go on and this is all due to CV ruining her perfect life. She has suicidal thoughts, but does not want to leave her kids behind. She also wants revenge agains CV.
- She planned the gun range visit and then proceeds to tell friends how she hates guns and could not "handle the recoil". Basically saying she could not shoot and CV just Snickered" at her.
- She also plans the trip to Springfield and CV although thinking it strange, goes along with it
- She tells CV she is not feeling well and she needs to pull over..."no, not here, right by the side of the road, I think I am going to be really sick, pull in here, by these trees. Oh, and I heard some rattling on my side of the luggage carrier, can you get out and look at what is loose"?
- CV Exits the car while KV gets the gun out of the glove box, one quick shot at him through the open passenger side door - stuns him..."WTF" he thinks.
- Then Bap bap, bap bap, bap bap...kids are gone...then one more bap up through her chin to her brain.
- CV is in absolute shock "What just happened? Could you imagine his shock? He blacks out.
KV got exactly what she wanted - perfect plan. The kids are happy together in heaven, with or without her depending on how forgiving her God is and CV is left holding the bag in a living hell - perfect revenge!
the L&O episode may be evidence agains KV!
DTM17: That's good. I'd never thought of that. But the pieces fit...
Ok, being in LE, what strikes me is the fact that I see no bullet holes in the windows, and all windows that are visible are intact. Mrs. Vaughn apparently was less than experienced with handguns, and was said to have fired with her "EYES CLOSED" Reports indicate multiple, lets say 3 shots to each child, (I cringe to even type that line folks) 1 to CV, and 1 to KV. We have a total of app 11 shots fired. NO HOLES, WINDOWS INTACT? I assure you she wasn't the shooter. I'm assuming an auto 9mm, although many popular 40cal will hold 10 + 1 in chamber.
Denise I did the same thing, my daughter has practice off of Rt 6 and I went to see where it happened. I saw the exact area, it was the only spot that had a gravel turn off between trees. The area was not marked off. The area is down from the Marina towards the BP and McDonalds.
"IF CV somehow pulled off killing the kids and KV woke up and saw that... Well, I certainly know what I would do."
Curious, if I saw anyone do that to my kids and was left with a weapon in reach, you'd better believe that before I took myself out I'd muster every bit of strength I had and hunt down the person who did it.
One item to remember about the night before: Neighbors were over for dinner and there was no mention of a trip to a water park. I think that's a key element. Who were the neighbors? Has their identity been revealed? If these people also had kids, then their conversations would surely involved what was going on the next day for the V family. At least for the moms. It's always a challenge in the summer to keep them busy. And, speaking of busy, wasn't one of the girls attending a camp? Once again, no mention to the instructors that she wouldn't be there the next day. Very strange.
DTM17, That scenario would be a first, I am sure, in the annals of familicide. However, if KV was interested in framing CV for familicide, there would have been far easier ways of doing that. The murders could have occurred at home in that case. There would be no need to drive somewhere. Plus if knowing he was going to divorce her, she'd be angry at HIM. Not the kids. There's no motive to kill the kids.
And additionally, the shot to the left thigh that grazed the left wrist could not have occurred while he was standing outside the passsenger side door. The bullet EXITED the left side of his left thigh. No way was he standing outside the passenger side window when he was shot. The bullet would have had to ENTER the left side of his left thigh if he was standing in that position.
DTM17---Sorry, I'm not buying it. IF there was "confession" (still doubtful) KV strikes me as the kind of person who would be devastated but get a good lawyer, assure that she and the kids were taken care of financially (she would have some leverage if he confessed to an affair, although I think IL has no-fault divorce), and get on with her life. She was still young and attractive, had a new career, lots of support from family, friends and neighbors. She strikes me as practical, energetic and forward looking, not a depressed person who would blame herself or take HIS nefarious behavior out on her or her kids.
CV reminds me of Scott Peterson. I think CV did have a woman and he wanted a fresh start. No wife, no kids no child support payments. Scott Peterson also claimed that he told Lacy about the affair he was having and that she was understanding about it. Yeah, right. I don't believe for a minute that CV told his wife about an affair.
Also, dosen't CV look like he's lost quite a bit of weight recently. Look at the published family picture and compare it to that picutre of him getting into the silver truck. He hardly looks the same.
You passed the cell tower as it is on the right 1/2 way between Bluff Rd and the Marina.
Because you did not even see the turnin at the Cell Tower, makes my point that one would have to know it was there!
Hope, Then the turn to the cell tower would be even harder to find at night than in the daytime. Is that correct?
I live in Minooka, half-way between Channahon and Hwy 47. I drive a lot at 5:00 a.m. For going south it would have saved them ~10-15 minutes to take 47 over I-55. Even so, If I'm not running behind I'll take I-55 just because it is easier. No traffic lights, not as rough a road. Hwy 47 has plenty of troopers looking to give out tickets as well. In short, it doesn't seem odd to me that they would stay on the Interstate.
Ginny - you are looking way to far into this...where he was standing bullet entry and exit woulds are really all speculation at this point, the police have not disclosed any official statement on this.
As far as this being a first? I highly doubt this would be a first time a sucidal mother killed her kids and self at the same time trying to frame her husband. You can also take the framing of the husband out of it. it could have been her plan for everything, the gun range, the waterpark trip, pulling over in that spot instead of the exit earlier. And the fact that CV looks guilty as hell may not have been in the plan. I find it quite amusing that you think CV could have planned all this, but KV could not have.
Bottom line is that is very feasible that KV's life was shattered after the confession (and this may have been weeks ago). And she did not see the point in going on. This would be the motive for killing the kids - Mother cant go on, but feels guilty for leaving them behind. They would be better off in heaven. Would certainly not be the first time!
You need to think outside of the box on this!
Just throwing this out there--my sister's friend is one of the photographers on the house pictures. Talked to him again. Said KV was very bubbly, friendly during the picture taking. CV not so much, acted like he just wanted to get it over with. They took several pictures with several different poses. One the photog chose was of the family on a couch all together; he wanted to use that one. CV didn't like it for whatever reaason, and they had to take another one, which is the one they used.
The problem I have with the KV set CV up theory is that if she is that nefarious and cunning, why not just kill CV, the object of her disdain, and make it look like suicide or murder by someone else?
DTM17, Well, so happy to have amused you. Hmmmmmmm. I was going to say that we are both amused by each other's scenarios but what happened is so cruel and horrifying that I can't find anything amusing about it. Not even your proposal for what happened. Your proposal sounds more like a story in one of those graphic comic strip novels. Nothing to do with real life or real people. Nothing to do with what people know about these people.
Not buying the wife did it theory DTM17.
According to the "wife did it to frame husband theory", she'd be especially devious and clever to have worked on her studies for her degree the evening before.
If he in fact (and I doubt)confessed to an affair and she thought she had a great marriage her head would be spinning and it would be very difficult to plan anything this elaborate. I have seen friends who have found out their spouse was cheating and it took a long time for the shock to wear off.
If my husband came home and announced to me that that he was having an affair and was planning on leaving me my first reaction would be that I'm finding myself a good lawyer so that I can take him for everything he's got not I'm going to kill my children and then commit suicide.
Michael - because she would have to live with herself then. And EVERYONE would know her life was a fraud. She could not live with this. As far as everyone here and their comments like "KV was not that type of person" and "this type of person would not think like that". I am curious how you think you know that. You think friends and nieghbors really know everything about each other. Let us not forget that early in the investigation KV's parents both said there was no way EITHER of them (KV or CV) could have done this! Now being faced with the reality that it was one of them, of course their going to take their daughters side. NOBODY has come out to say they think that CV was capable of doing this. I mean other than people on this blog who are looking at pictures and somehow think they can "feel" the emptiness inside Chris's soul by looking at the picture of him and his family. I mean that is absolutely absurd. I certainly hope nobody would look at pictures of my and my family and judge like that - and the fact that he was annoyed by the ST photog? big deal, I would be too if I had stuff to do and this photog was taking too long to get the shot right- just take the picture already would be my reaction.
BTW - Of course the most likely scenario is that CV is the shooter. But I will continue to look at all angles and until the truth comes out, none of us will know for sure what heppened that morning.
Cielia - of course that is what you would do. You are a sane, rational person. which is what EVERYBODY thought both CV and KV were before last Thursday. Obviously that was not the case with either one or both of the Vaughn parents. That is the point
Yes, Ceilia . . . exactly. However, for the sake of argument, if KV does decide to commit this crime, why the trip? Why not in the house that night, when everyone is asleep? When one would KNOW CV would die?
The trip is the main problem to any theory that KV did it, in my opinion. If she "snapped" then she would have simply . . . snapped. And if she planned this last minute trip without telling anyone, without worrying about leaving the dogs, etc., why wasn't SHE driving? Wouldn't SHE have had to convince HIM to go, if it was HER plan?
What is the point of leaving the home? Who gains from the vagueness of the whole situation?
DTM17,
Or should we call you "Christopher Vaughn". Floating new "memories" before you reveal them in your next big interview with the FBI??
Or are you just a friend who's helping him "remember".
PUH-leeze. You're not fooling anyone here with your crazy talk.
KV was no poor bedraggled Andrea Yates, burdened by homeschooling kids and a new baby. She was out and about, active, attractive. I sometimes find a tinge of sexism in the notion that women are so devastated by a divorce that they "snap" kill themselves. I doubt she would initiate a divorce herself, but who knows? But If he did want a divorce, she might have been happy to call it a day. She married young as well--she might have wanted a new life too.
Yes, Ginny, you would not have a clue you could turn-in at night.
I'd like to know from the bartenders at the Big Basin Marina, if he frequented the bar and thus would know that drive very well. Does he have a boat??
No doubt about it. This woman was looking toward the future. It has been said that she was just finishing her on-line degree. She was very attractive and her children were no longer babies so she had more freedom to come and go as she pleased.
Ceilia - "No Doubt About It". What? How can you seriously make a statement like that and then site your basis for thinking this is because whe was "goodlooking and finishing a degree". I am not going to write here that I know for sure CV did not do this. I have stated that over and over...but I think some of you are being too closed minded about this. I think this blog is great because it allows us to hear views and other possible scenarios that we may have not thought of...but some here just shoot these down because it seems nobody wants to even look at the possibility that KV could have done this.
Who has the signs of being a sociopath: CV.
Calling Animal Control to take away his only remaining "family members"??? Disposed of just like the rest of them -- only far more humanely. Must have had a soft spot for the pups, huh?
Guess who just graduated from college: KV. Guess who DIDN'T graduate from college: CV. Wonder who was losing "control" of that family after YEARS of "the upper hand"?
Who was liked: KV ... who was "quiet, distant, different": CV.
And I totally agree that the "woman snapped at the prospect of divorce" has VERY sexist overtones. Even the crazy loons who have snapped due to relationship problems didn't kill THEIR KIDS or USE GUNS ... that dentist lady ran over her cheating spouse with her CAR. Others offed their kids to be with a lover who didn't want kids ... NONE of this applies here. It simply doesn't add up to KV no matter WHAT kind of crazy scenario you cook up -- which is why CV is sunk.
DTM17 don't know if you have been reading this forum from the start, but I think everyone did start with an open mind. The problem is CV's story doesn't have make sense to average people (men & women), apparently including the police now having 40-50 investigators.
Marcia wrote: "I sometimes find a tinge of sexism in the notion that women are so devastated by a divorce that they "snap" kill themselves. "
I find more than a tinge of sexism in that idea. KV didn't sound like a needy dependent wimpy person. She loved her kids. She was working on a degree. Someone described her as "blossoming".
People who are very needy and who suffer from clinical depression do react to loss sometimes by suicide. KV wasn't described like that by anyone who knew her.
Some people seem to think of women as a gender as being subject to "hysterias" and irrational behavior and total devastation if they are without a husband. One thing I have noticed myself over a lot of years of observing friends and others is that guys react to divorce and separation with intense feelings and are quite often the most devastated.
I agree with DTM17 that some are taking this "too personal" in their opinions and comparing what they would do. I will be the first one to thank everyone for sharing what they would do, and their opinions as to how this whole mess unfolded, as that adds to the possible options.
However, the personal aspect taints the conversation. "KV would never do that because I would never do that.." or "CV is smirking in the picture so he's guilty.." Those are not valid in an investigation and don't really positively contribute to a constructive discussion.
You have to consider all of the options.. no matter how "out-there" they are.
Just my $0.02
-ss
(Still looking forward to more factual evidence!)
I did consider that she might have done it and then discarded it beccause not one shred of evidence points towards her except what he supposedly said. Everything else points towards him. I get no pleasure out of believing that a father might have slaughtered his wife and kids--the whole thing is nauseating.
With all due respect DTM17 your scenario is ridiculous. I stand by my point....even if you go with the theory that CV confessed to her that he was having an affair I don't believe killing her children and then taking her own life would have been the way KV would have handled it. I have also read that people who are capable of homicide rarely commit suicide and that people who commit suicide rarely commit homicide. According to her family neighbors and frinds KV did not have any personality disorders.
Annoyed,
Just so you know, it is my gut opinion that CV did this, but do remember, the reports haven't reported anything from CV's family, coworkers, friends, etc. If he worked a lot, the neighbors didn't see him much, they saw KV a lot cause she was the stay-at-home mom.
Just something to consider when you label people with characteristics like that.
The dog situation was weird. Why not give them to a neighbor or a family member to take care of? Sending them off to the pound is a weird move.
-ss
Celia,
You said rarely as opposed to never, just remember that leaves this as an option.
Neighbors and family may not see everything going on. On the flipside, did any family members or coworkers see any personality disorders with CV? CV surely spent as much time with coworkers, clients as KV did with neighbors.
Again, I'm just as guilty as most until I take a step back... this is basing decisions and opinions on very little factual evidence.
-ss
ss wrote: "You have to consider all of the options.. no matter how "out-there" they are."
What? And not use our common sense, experience, the facts as we know them so far, the family's statements?
If we were to think "out of the box" and "out there", then we could well come up with some darned wild scenarios. Like aliens from outer space or a serial killer who's been watching that cell phone tower driveway for years for a family to attack. What would be the point of that kind of discussion? It might be entertaining for some people who are into that sort of thing -- who like thinking of the most unlikely explanations. But what does it have to do with the truth of what happened?
I discuss these mysteries because I am interested in what really happened. I'm not interested in coming up with some fictional story to entertain myself or anyone else.
This will be a rant but it is needed..
unless there is overwhelming evidence that she had an emotonal disorder there is no reason that the man has not been arrested. I had a passing conversation with a friend who is a homicide detective in Chicago the other day. He was up in arms about this case. He wondered why CV was not held for the full 48 hours and suggested that they were waiting for him to break by making a mistake. The friend is not involved in the investigation but he's no dummy. He said the forensics would tell the true story as we all know. I do not buy into any theory that it takes more than a few days to discern the real events, this is a priority. I don't care what he says. He waited four hours to flag help and he knew there was a cell phone in the car. He didn't use it to call for help.
If I was a citizen of Will county I'd wonder who these schmucks are. Unforunately many of our government employees are not the brightest bunch, due to the pay and image attached. The kid is broke and I believe they should make him PROVE he didn't do it, no waiting around until it's a rock solid case. Maybe the mayor of Oswego should take a break from his duties as a finacnial advisor and get to knitting. What we have here is a cold blooded killer walking the streets. If he killed his kids he could kill again. His family should be ashamed, they should get him to turn himself in. The story does not add up and a fly on the wall could tell his innocence or guilt. He should be clinked before the wake today or when he shows his shameful face. Nothing has given any of us the impression his story holds any water.
A romantic getaway when considering divorce? ha, next. She shot the kids and you are a hunter who knows full and well gun safety? ha, next. 6,7,8 shots at your kids and you do nothing? I am not into guns but I will tell you I have been shot at and if it happens again, they better kill me or they will have the gun turned on them. I don't have kids but for certain if someone was shooting at any person in my family I'd switch my life for theirs. Water park? ha, again next. Who leaves in the middle of the night for an intrastate trip? When did the luggage rack become loose? ha, next. Not at the most convenient time ever. Why pull over there? Guns? she hated them he worshiped them. She doted on the kids, he was withdrawn. He confessed to the affair to cover his tracks. His mortgage was so underwater and his business was a sham. e.g.: the story about him making a big show out of catching a wireless intruder. Oh! I am the big expert look what I can do. ??? It actually shows how pathetic he is. A security consultant wouldn't waste his time or even care. It's not like he was being hacked, just piggybacked. Many people make a big show out of how succesful they are when in reality they are maxed out on credit. I will never believe he could afford the lifestyle much less the house on a buck twenty.
Marcia - "not one shred of evidence". How close are any of us to this investigation? The ONLY evidence we have is from the media...very and I mean very little has come from the investigators. You are going by circumstantial evidence. and, the circumstances surely make CV look guilty as heck. There is still ALOT of VERY IMPORTANT evidence that is unkown. I have read this blog from the very beginning and it is starting to feel like a vacuum. If there was really no shreds of evidence pointing to KV, then why would CV still be free? Everything so far that has been reported points to him as the killer. This certainly leads me to believe that there is evidence we in the public do not know of. The fact that there are 40-50 investigators on this does not in anyway make CV look more guilty, just that the police want to be as diligent as possible...if anything I think that points to Kim being looked at more closely as the possible shooter.
Ginny,
Thank you for bringing that up. There aren't many facts of the case at this point. 95% of what we "know" or have been fed are from media reports based on "sources close to the investigation" and 3rd party hearsay. Few facts from KV's family. More of what they didn't know than what they did. Friends of the bolingbrook passerbyer possibly relaying info he told them. Etc, etc.
Look at the report last night and how different it is from the reports we've been hearing about since this whole tragedy occurred.
Again, we know VERY LITTLE FACTUAL information about the situation.
-ss
Thank you, Brian in Chicago.
I wonder where that WA neighbor has been who told the story about the computer and CV being the "best in the nation"?
Brian,
A lot of information in your post is not proven. What time did the shootings occur? You said he was walking around for 4 hours.
Will county is not handling this investigation, the Illinois STATE Police are.
How do you know they were broke? The mortgage info that was released can't entirely dictate that.
How do you know his business was a sham? He worked for a prestigious consulting company and had a side business. "Alledgedly" KV was going to be a PI in that side business.
Just some questions I have for the information you are using. Hopefully you know something factual that hasn't been released publicly and will share with us
-ss
I don't believe KV could have done this not based on looks or achievement of degree, but based on who was controlling the situation they found themselves in that morning. HE drove, HE parked. HE did not attempt to subdue his crazed wife, HE (apparently) did not attempt any lifesaving measures for either his wife or kids, HE did not call 911, HE did not nor have someone else call either family. HE did not want to be bothered with family pets. Probably most incriminating, HE survived while they did not. All circumstantial pieces of evidence, but so is everything else that comes in.
See, it doesn't bother me that they haven't arrested him yet. That tells me that they are being very careful with the case and because he is probably under constant surveillance he is not going anywhere. Do we want another John Mark Karr where they arrest him before the forensics are back? The killings were only last week; let the family have the wakes and funerals.
All I know is that it would be great if they could arrest him before 3:00 pm today so Kim's parents don't have to look into his sneaky lying eyes. How heartbreaking that they have to be in the same room with him while mourning their child and grandchildren. Makes me sick!!!!
more-
if it smells like a rat is a rat. There are 99 out of a hundred times when your first impression is correct. On the other time it does cause us to reflect and you know there are some long term friends I have that I disliked upon meeting, however those are rare and the man stinks like a rat. Withdrawn, controlling, decieving, cheating, bs-ing...etc. I say make him prove he didn't do it and get the killer off the streets.
He's broke and he will not be able to get a good attorney. He will be able to find someone who wants some press. This will pile up on him like a mountain. I say for the sake of all things that are good in the world they have to arrest him before he shows up for any funerals, showings or wakes. By now the po should have a very good picuture of what happened and you know even if she did watch that tv show who cares? we're all accustomed to CSI but in reality it does not take long to paint the proper picture....L&O..he probably watched it too while he was planning this heinous crime. He took her to the gun range probably the same week he 'told' his family member he was thinking divorce? premeditated. lucky him, no death penalty. good luck in prison mister, I've been there (only to visit because of the sermon about where were you when I was broke, in prison or otherwise - via kairos ) and I can tell you that EVERY person I met reminded me of someone I knew on the outside and I was speechless when I left becuase I wonder how they went wrong.
Plese for the love of god or any other thing you do mister policeman, get this killer off the streets. His family should be ashamed they have not convinced him to tell the truth. All of the people on his side are to blame for him not coming clean.
THIS IS A ROCK SOLID CASE unless there is a HUGE amount of evidence she planned this.
Crimereporter and others have said ISP is very good. If this were the Chicago Police, there would be a lot more leaks. Reporters fraternize with cops and develop sources; they LIVE at 11th & State. But the ISP is a tighter-knit organization with a broader range. The press doesn't seem to have a lot of inside access.
Therefore, a great deal of what we're been theorizing about so far could be completely wrong.
To keep my sanity, I'm putting all my faith in ISP and the fact that they know what they're doing, unless someone can convince me otherwise with examples of their ineptitudes, etc., beyond just being "government employees."
Brian--I also would like to know how and if CV was "broke". I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested.
I think CV thought he had a great plan and when LE entered the picture he was faced with obvious questions. Cv has merely been adding and ammending his story to mirror what LE is presenting him. Kinda like a crystal ball or tarot car reader reacting to your reactions and basing their readings on that.
CV told LE they were all heading to the waterpark. When in reality CV was heading to the cell tower. The cell towers location shows that it was the only destination CV had planned that day. Only CV knew that. For all we know CV woke his family up in the middle of the night saying he got a call from his mom, his dad is in the hospital dying of a heart attack. Of course that's a big fat lie. In the frenzy to get to grandpa, who would have questioned that? And no one is alive to say they were tricked. CV conveniently throws a bag in the back with swimsuits cause he's going to tell LE that they were heading to the waterpark.
Ginny how can you compare KV possibly being the shooter (scorned wife, kilss kids and self to get back at cheating husband) to Aliens killing them? A little out there? maybe, but has it happened before? certainly! The alien story on the other hand - dont think that has ever been documented. All of the other evidence regarding the trip and where they pulled over can actually be explained. Has anybody ever watched one of those cold case detective stories with Bill Curtis? They usually use the first half hour of those shows to build a case against the most likely suspect - and they have the viewer believing beyond a doubt they are guilty....only to introduce some new evidence that proves one way or the other the initial suspects guilt. Many times the initial view turns out to be incorrect, with the viewer left with a thought of wow, did not see that coming. This is quite possibly on of those cases.
And to Brian from Chicago - I am glad we have due process in this country! I would certainly not want you and your cop buddy bringing justice using only the evidence the media has shown us!
While I've been harsh on LE in this case I now understand the position they are in. CV is sending them down this route and that. Le is going to have their hands full on these wild goose chases!
SuziQ wrote: "or all we know CV woke his family up in the middle of the night saying he got a call from his mom, his dad is in the hospital dying of a heart attack. Of course that's a big fat lie. In the frenzy to get to grandpa, who would have questioned that? And no one is alive to say they were tricked. CV conveniently throws a bag in the back with swimsuits cause he's going to tell LE that they were heading to the waterpark."
That would be a perfect way to get them all out in the car for a drive. Good thinking, SuziQ!
Of course, we may never hear what he said to them. But something along those lines would have worked.
I had been begging for information on this tragic crime and was out of my mind with the deficient coverage. You guys are engaged in a fascinating discourse and your discussions have raised some fine sleuthing points that I hadn't thought of. I am absolutely obsessed with the psychology of this as you all are. Let's hope that justice is swift--hopefully BEFORE visitation this afternoon.
I can't begin to tell you how fortunate I feel to have found this very thorough forum which is very intellectually stimulating and has provoked very intense thought. Thank you.
I agree--Greta discussed missing Ohio pregnant woman for 1 hour last night, while I am crazy for this puzzle's solution. It is (the coverage) ramping up now, though.
SuzieQ - Again (and I can't believe I have to continue to ask this), but how in the heck do you state that the LE is being sent down "this route and that route"? The last time CV was questioned was Sunday. And NONE of us know what CV said at that time - whether he changed his story, remembered anything new, etc...NOBODY knows.
Brian in Chicago: Ahhh, bless you, my friend. Your 'rant' was spot on and you took the thoughts and words right out of my head.
We DO need more hard information and it will be coming soon....but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the situation and find your focus on....(yes, the 'smirking') CV.
By the way....having animal control take the family pets away? Cold, very cold.
Impatience and speculation have come to dominate this thread, in ways that run rough shod over evidence (what little we have) and due caution (we seem to have very little of that, too). We should be grateful that the IL State Police aren't similarly dominated. They have no need to charge CV before their considered assessment of the evidence is finished, in the next few days. A bit of cautious patience now will save one from a lot of embarrassment later. Even more importantly, it will increase one's chances of getting the story right. That's what the ISP want, and we should too.
DT, point taken. That statement is based on conflicting media reports that are gettting more and more conflicting as time goes on. The statement I made was based on my opinion.
Now for the rest of my theory. Fact, the cellphone tower is where it is. Fact, the family up and left suddenly in the middle of the night. Fact, he is saying his wife killed herself and the kids. Fact, they are dead and can't defend themselves against a lie. That leaves CV alot of room to be creative.
I have not read all the posts, so forgive me if someone already put this out there, but another possibility is that when CV said “she killed my kids”, he was referring to his girlfriend and not his wife. The girlfriend was waiting at the meeting spot at the cell tower to shoot the wife a la Amy Fisher. I think he intended to pretend he tried to *save* his wife from an unknown shooter, but the girlfriend then proceeded to shoot the kids which was not part of the plan. CV was stunned and they had an altercation and that’s when he was shot. That’s why someone heard shots earlier in the day as the girlfriend may have been there to ‘practice’. The girlfriend wanted CV all to herself sans wife and kids. CV is protecting her by blaming his wife.
Ginny and SuziQ---I wouldn't put it past him to use the sick relatives ruse to get them all up and out. Also, it may explain why they ended up where they did--he could have told KV he wanted to call his family from the road, but needed peace and quiet--hey look, honey, a cell phone tower! Let me just pull off and call from there.
Very good thinking Marcia!
PB, that's a possibility. But I think CV would have hung his girlfriend out to dry before protecting her. God, I'm dying to know who this person, (he or she) is, that CV was having an affair with. Ie: the shocking news hinted by the radio dude.
PB, So in your theory CV is protecting the woman who shot his beautiful adorable kids? If that is what happened, he must not be missing the kids any more than he is missing the dogs.
You're right. I hadn't seen this particular theory before. I think it's a first for this thread.
Hollyjokers . . . my sentiments, exactly. From what limited info we've been given, we do know that CV was the one "in control" of the situation . . . as you eloquently detailed.
How did they get to the point of crime? Waterpark story makes no sense. If KV's intent is to kill family/self, there's absolutely no reason to go anywhere. None.
Ginny, I agree, I am having a hard time seeing a third party at the scene. Unless CV planned for them to be there that is.
And it would have had to be preplanned as how would the third party know where to be to begin with?
Here's today's cbs2chicago story:
"Vaughn Family Remembered As Police Probe Case"
http://tinyurl.com/2rb8j7
I don't see anything really new in the story. Some quotes about the investigation that I hadn't seen before but no new details to chew on.
Where are those prior "woman snaps & shoots kids as revenge on dad, plus frames dad for crime before shooting self in face" cases.
I'd really like to see them.
In the Spector case right now multiple experts have been testifying that women rarely if EVER shoot themselves in the face, especially beautiful women. It goes against every conceivable bit of human nature. DUH!
These threads should come with disclaimers like "Discussing true crime mysteries can be hazardous to the projects in the rest of your life. Time flies. The day will be gone before you know it."
DTM17 --- You are spot on with your comments. The only thing I differ with is your comment on the most likely scenario. I believe the most likely scenario is KV shot them all, then herself.
But I will admit it's possible CV did it and I will keep an open mind to all information coming in. For instance, this is the first I'd heard of CV sending the dogs to Animal Control. If that is true, which I will accept as fact for now, then I find that somewhat cold and disturbing.
But in return, I also find KV's family somewhat disturbing. They claim to be constantly informed and in the know of every little detail in the daughter's life and marriage, (that in itself would put a strain on the marriage), yet CV's relative knew he had thought about divorce and they did not. Initially they proclaimed loudly about what a wonderful husband and father CV was, now they're doing a 180 and accusing him of making up stories and lying.
A lot of people are trying to speculate based on the premise of rationalizing irrational behavior. You can't rationalize irrational behavior...it is by definition "ir"-"rational".
Ultimately forensics will decide this case. Not neighbors/family assessments of KV as being "forward looking", "bubbly", etc...nor of CV being "remote" or short with the photographer.
Ginny--Yes! I keep thinking I shouldn't refresh the page.....but I do. It's so compelling and I want to know what really happened.
I hope that later today LE arrests him. Preferably before the wake so that KV's relatives don't have to look at him.
I'll be back later. I have to go and do something else for a while. I'm too obsessed with this.
re "broke" comment
I do not have any inside information but I could if I wanted to but that is illegal - my gf works at the mortgage company where the loan is.
that being said let's do a little math:
125 AGI (estimate)
prob means 90 after tax
plus her four to eight working at the pool
the mortgage at 6 percent with taxes and insurance probably comes to 3500-4g month - could be resetting soon if not this month.
thats nearly half of his take home
add in camp furniture trips to Mexico soccer team clothes clothing 3 big screen tv's cable internet computers and two cars . please tell me this guy has cash.
And I will tell you that almost all of the mortgages taken out in the last year and a half for middle class suburb homes in Chicago are underwater. With a possible pending divorce this is a big problem. What happens is you go "wow" I made a hundred grand on the last house. You believe this will happen again. People act like they are riucher than they are, it's a fact of life. The story about the guy making a big show of his 'skills' reveals his penchant for exageration.
I'd be willing to bet my White Sox Cubs tickets for tommorow that loan is "stated income" as most people who are self employed and trying to keep up with the joneses go. He had a corporate job. he went to a krap college and did not graduate. Try and tell me he was bringing home 2 hundo. If he was - he'd have bought a million dollar prefab.
as for my conversation with a very talented Chicago detective...people do talk. He did not indicate this but I'd guess he knows more than he said. 30 year veterans don't get upset over 'nothin'. He made a very strong point in his distaste for what was happening/not happening.
Oswego Police did do the search warrant on the home so Oswego is involved...maybe not the lead but still involved. As for my sources being what is published and discussed. Yes, these are not all the way the facts, duh. However, I am one who believes that disinformation is a disservice to the public. Combine that with my conversation with mr. Detective we get a better idea of how someone is handling this case. I have tons of confidence in the ISP. I am concerned that this idea of waiting to be a perfect case is asking for more trouble.
Let's dig deeper into what some other person has mentioned:
late night trip
water park
soccer game???
what fool thinks his kid is going to play well after all that?
even if they were planning on dropping her off with the kids at the parents house it does not add up.
all of what we are hearing is nonsense...even if it is misinformation desingned to bring out the truth.
his family should tell him this is over, confess and we will support you. If not, they should abandon him.
edgarpoe--What I read was that someone in CV's family said he had been thinking about a divorce. Perhaps he told them and didn't tell KV, and then her family wouldn't know.
Marcia,
I agree completely with that assessment. I was just trying to point out that people can't go on what her family "thought" they knew about her life and their relationship. They didn't know as much as they thought they did. And, perhaps, neither did she.
Brian--I'm not sure I ever heard he made $125 K. Again, I'm not doubting you--I'm wondering where you got that figure. Also, I heard they got $118 k profit from the sale of the Washington house and didn't use that for DP on their house for various reasons.
My husband is an attorney and he said the IP probably already knows CV is guilty based on their visual findings at the scene. However, in order to put this guy away for a very long time, they need all the evidence they can to get the max sentencing. Since CV is not lawyering up, they figure as long as keeps chirping, they will continue to find holes in his story.
The fact that this guy had animal control remove the family pets is very significant. The people that I have known who lost children wanted to preserve every reminder of their lost kid. They wouldn't have casually had their kid's pet put down.
This suggests to me that he didn't want his family anymore.
I read somewhere last nite that their dogs had been turned over to KV's family from animal control. That little fact made me feel better. I know if anything this horrible happened to my sister's family I would want to have that little piece of her family with me.
WP said "Since CV is not lawyering up, they figure as long as keeps chirping, they will continue to find holes in his story."
I know this to be a fact for other LE. This was what they did with Scott Peterson as well. As long as they do not think he is likely to take hostages somewhere and they feel reasonably certain he is not a flight risk, then he is free to go. Then they can continue to track his movements in the hopes of finding 'the girlfriend', 'the bank account', etc. Plus, he will talk to friends and family. All of which become potential prosecution witnesses to unspool his story.
I'm sticking with my amphetamine and/or possible oxycontin cv theory/speculation and the b4/after pics of cv are bearing this scenario out.
Green Beret Family Murderer Jeffrey MacDonald was abusing when he slaughtered his family in some whacked copycat "Manson" crime scene staging that seemed like a foolproof idea in his sociopathic drug addled mind at the time.
Darlie Routier, who also murdered her children, was proven to be taking "diet pills" at the time.
I've always suspected Scott Petersen of doing more with his fertilizer than selling it - the contrasting pics of his drastically changing weight pointing toward drug abuse to me during Amber Affair.
sociopathic personality + drug abuse seems to = grandiose murderous plans that the killer believes they will never be questioned or suspected about. Feeling invincible and feeling like they've hatched the perfect plan and murder is a better idea than say, ummm a divorce?
Yes, it's sad that the families have to go thru these funerals with the murderer among them. ITA that LE is getting their ducks in a row. Let's just hope that he doesn't spray silly string on the graves.
One more thing, my hubby mentioned many people in and around this family probably all have gag orders and that is why the press is not able to report as much as we'd like them to.
Moxiemom --- then perhaps the whole "CV sent dogs to Animal Control" is out of line. Isn't it more likely the police took the dogs to AC during the initial search while CV was holed up with the police? And that KV's family went and got the dogs? If so, that puts it in a whole different light.
Dogs were in their backyard this morning.
And BTW - I'm not theorizing drug use as an "out" or excuse. Just my thoughts on how/why some of these bizarre and horrific family murders happen.
the animal control issue is easy, they didn't want him or any non-LE back in that house before they could investigate. Hell, evidence has even been found on, and in animals in past cases. Animal control is part of law enforcement, it was simply protocol.
Steve (Huff) . . . Just saw you on MSNBC . . . very cool. I was heading out to the beach (away from the computer!) and happened to catch you on the tube. You were great!
Kendall County Animal Control staff have been taking care of the Vaughns' dogs and preparing to turn them over to a member of Kimberly Vaughn's family, said Kendall County Board member Anne Vickery, who received a phone call from Christopher Vaughn authorizing the release of the animals.
"We found the dogs in an outside kennel, evidently dropped off by Oswego police," Vickery said of acquiring the dogs last week. "The dogs are fine, evidently in good shape. They're well taken care of."
from: http://tinyurl.com/2gxlu5
Audpaud - Good point...Then I guess the same would be true for the possibility that KV was on drugs and thought up this scheme? I have not heard one shred of evidence that KV or CV were on drugs. So if it is possible that CV was, I guess it would be just as possible that KV was. Maybe we can get some info from the posters that were able to tell CV is psychotic by looking at pictures of him with his family...maybe they can "feel" the drug abuse.
Brian,
I apologize if this comes across wrong, but your statements are heavily biased.
"And I will tell you that almost all of the mortgages taken out in the last year and a half for middle class suburb homes in Chicago are underwater. "
Really? Almost all? So if I find out who has moved into a new house last year, almost all of those occupants will tell me they are not paying their bills? I think you are way off.
"125 AGI (estimate)"
I know you said estimate, but your making a long convoluted point with a number you pulled out of thin air. What are you using to estimate to that figure? Why not 75 or 200?
Sadly, I find your posts, particularly, using opinions and hearsay as facts. Please do not confuse the two.
"Add in trips to mexico"
Wouldn't his work pay for the trips to Mexico if he was there on business? Do you know that they were non-business trips to Mexico?
"The story about the guy making a big show of his 'skills' reveals his penchant for exageration."
I don't know of any fact of CV making a big show of his skills. Can you please share that factual info? And aren't you making a big show of your crimesolving skills with all of the information you are turning into fact, and willing to bet your crosstown classic tickets on?
I have to agree with Paul's post about the lact of factual evidence and information, yet a lot of folks use hearsay, speculated, and "reported" information AS fact.
How do you know they left late in the night and not early in the morning? How do you know they were going to make it back to a soccer game that afternoon?
I am not saying you are wrong, because quite frankly you could be dead on. I agree 100% what we've been fed makes this all like a slamdunk case against CV. However, I am also pointing out that we the public (at least I) do not know this information as fact, only as reported using the safety words like "allegedly" and "is being reported" and "from sources close to the investigation." And don't forget, last nights report of CV's initial actions were completely different than initially "reported."
Let's keep it civil folks!
-ss
PB! Thanks for your comments about the possibility of the GF actually being the shooter. We know CV has to be lying about a ton of stuff (I try to go to sleep at night but all I can think of is that this should be called the "Luggage Rack Case") because that and their being at the location of the cell phone tower is so overwhelmingly W.R.O.N.G. in the Makes Sense category of alibis.
Now, I kept thinking the passerby might have been involved somehow. And I guess the main reason I think this is that he is cool because he really didn't do the shooting and there was no physical evidence that he did. No buried clothes with GSR on them for dogs to sniff out, no GSR anywhere on his skin or hair etc etc. Nothing physical at all in the car or anywhere. And I also thought that is made more sense because even if he was a Total CAD, it'd be hard to shoot your own kids. That's why hired gunmen are so popular. Whether or not he knew the accomplice was going to shoot the kids or not remains to be seen, but they're dead now, so why should he talk or implicate anyone else? He's not got a lawyer which tells me even though that'd be a bad move in my estimation, he really truly thinks the ISP and other LE won't be able to pin him on the murders. He MAY be directly responsible for the deaths, but if he didn't pull the trigger, then he may figure it's worth waiting out the cops to see if they come up with anything.
Meeting someone in a dark place to carry out a crime makes so much more sense than the different scenarios we've all been working on so diligently all week. (Yes Ginny, we should be turning in time sheets!) Except that we can't do anything but speculate. If the sports announcer who said the details were "lurid" made a factual statement, then I think that SOUNDS like someone else may have been in on it too and we'll be shocked to find out.
"Audpaud - Good point...Then I guess the same would be true for the possibility that KV was on drugs and thought up this scheme? I have not heard one shred of evidence that KV or CV were on drugs. So if it is possible that CV was, I guess it would be just as possible that KV was. Maybe we can get some info from the posters that were able to tell CV is psychotic by looking at pictures of him with his family...maybe they can "feel" the drug abuse."
Well, drug use might certainly explain a few of the theories around here...
velouria --- Second that motion!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,285919,00.html
MONTCLAIR, N.J. — A man drowned his two young daughters in a bathtub and hanged himself at his home, authorities said.
[...]
"This was so out of character," Giblin said. "He was a jovial type guy. All he ever did was work hard.
I'm waiting to here all the defenders of this man and how he couldn't possibly have done it because he was a "hard-working", "jovial" guy. Huh? huh? ....crickets chirping....
I'm waiting to here all the defenders of this man and how he couldn't possibly have done it because he was a "hard-working", "jovial" guy. Huh? huh? ....crickets chirping....
If I find out his ex-wife was shot at under unusual circumstances and was the only one who escaped the home unscathed, and that it's her word vs. no ones as to what actually happened in the home, then I'll reconsider whether or not this guy is guilty. Just sayin'.
edgarpoe - you mean he was not a quite person, maybe a little stern, who did not smile all of the time? oh yeah, but did he wear sunglasses in pictures taken of him outside? Because that is the tell tale sign of a psychotic that kills his family. Sorry for the sarcasm everyone, but I am starting to feel that with the lack of evidence, everyone is bending the little we do know to fit their theory...which I guess is fine, just seems to be a little one sided at this time.
"And I will tell you that almost all of the mortgages taken out in the last year and a half for middle class suburb homes in Chicago are underwater."
Almost all.....wow. From Mundelein to Lockprot to Crystal Lake to Naperville to Oak Park? That's a lot of homes. Even though your girlfriend works for a mortgage company, Brian, I think you kind of shot your credibility on that one.
Circumspect, I have rassled with that idea too. They questioned him twice I read from a newspaper and in the photos (nice truck by the way) it was in the cornered off area with detectives standing around looking at it. Now this theory is real speculation...but that's why we are all here.
GGH - I think edgarpoe's point was that this guys wa a happy, jovial person on the outside (think KV), but had major issues inside......just sayin'
I drove to St. Louis from the west yesterday to go to a swim meet. As I drove through O'Fallon (the Vaughn Family's home) I imagined him and possibly others reading all the entries under CrimeBlog and others like Court TV. Today just about everyone I know runs to the PC to google things they want to know more about from press sources etc. I get the willies thinking about it, but I know Christopher is reading this.
And the very next town I drove through was St. Peters (the Phillips' home) and I couldn't even conceive of what they were having to deal with including driving over to Illinois, on the same hiway as me, to talk to the Illinois State Police in Collinsville which is where my parents live.
It's difficult to imagine what's going on behind all the closed doors. Surely Chris's parents are going nuts too. For some reason I don't think, as others do, that there'll be an arrest before the wake. I also just have this freaky feeling that he's not going to be alive much longer either. (Chris, I know you're reading this, sorry, but I'm sure you're not really shocked that no one believes you.)
GGH - I think edgarpoe's point was that this guys wa a happy, jovial person on the outside (think KV), but had major issues inside......just sayin'
I understood the point he was trying to make, but was pointing out that he missed the mark. KV's demeanor before her death isn't the sole reason the majority of posters (and the ISP) are looking quite closely at CV. The circumstances of her death are paramount to most everyone's opinion that CV caused that event. I was pointing out that the circumstances, being different, made his point moot.
And I'll bet you that other friends/family/neighbors say that the guy had a hard time with the divorce. And that there was a pattern of behavior that lead to the event...the guy didn't just "snap".
Ok, just to add to all the speculation. I have a sign on my door that says, "To all reporters, No COMMENT!" However some of our neighbors are talking as if they knew them, when in fact they're gossiping. And the media are trying to get whatever they can to also help put this puzzling situation together. So just remeber that the people the police are talking to, cant speak about what we may or may not know. I dont even know, but they are really working hard. And I just want to know. But after knowing them. It's been so hard. I can't go to Mo. my kids don't know. But I can tell you this, I just dont understand why Chris, seems so nonchalant. I keep calling Kim hoping she picks up. Maybe just hearing her say,"Kimberly Vaughn." Comforts me. But he just seems so normal. I dont get it.
I live about 2 miles from where the SUV was found (as the crow flies) They stopped before the marina. Going that far down that road in the middle of the night is just unheard of, unless you are going to the subdivision back there or the bar attached to the marina. There are much better places to stop and adjust whatever needs adjusting, that is not the exit I would choose. I also double checked the map, but I think taking 126 into plainfield to 55 would have been the shortest route and no traffic at that time of night to contand with. You can see the cell phone tower from 55, it is south of the over pass on the west side of 55.
Chris if you need any help offing yourself, I can help.
Re: mortages being "underwater" ...
What the poster probably meant was that home values have dropped so dramatically in the last two years in certain markets (including Chicago) that a very high percentage of people may owe more on a house than the house can CURRENTLY BE SOLD FOR. Not that a house is in foreclosure. Most of the loans being taken out for those types of houses (young families) tend to be ones with low down payments & very little equity ... combine that with DECREASING VALUES and a STAGNANT MARKETPLACE ... voila: underwater. He didn't say most mortgages .. he said most that have been taken out in the last two years. A bit of an exaggeration but not as INCREDIBLE an exaggeration as you seem to think.
Well, we live here, about 2 miles from where the Vaughns lived.
My kids were in class with Blake & Amanda at their schools.
I too think LE is letting this spin out - the guy can't stop running his mouth.
Thoughts on the route they took to where the family was eventually shot - Channahon is out of the way by AT LEAST 20-30 minutes on the way to Springfield in the early am, with a significant number of stoplights between Oswego & IL 55. They would have had to drive several miles southeast on Rt. 30 (50mph, with no less than 6 stoplights and plenty of county speed traps), onto IL Rt. 126 through downtown Plainfield (25mph, plenty of Plainfield cops looking for an easy early am pick) with another 4-5 stoplights, then onto I-55, which, last time I was there, was under significant construction where they would've entered (construction speed limit 45mph, plenty of staties). In the alternative, Hwy. 47 is less than 10 minutes west of their home and an easy drive from there to I-55, avoiding all of the construction. Yes, plenty of Kendall County cops lurking on Hwy 47 in the early am, but the speed limit is 55 and there are no stoplights - only 3 or 4 4-way stops between where they would've got on and I-55.
I think this guy killed his family. I think, like Scott Petersen, now that he did that, he's not a significant danger to anyone else. He popped his wad, this was his great big aberrent act, and now the cops are just waiting for enough evidence to arrest him and make it stick.
We have a lovely community pool with multiple water slides less than 5 miles from their house. My child plays in their daughter's soccer league. Kim volunteered in my child's class and my son wants to know why she shot her children and then killed herself.
I hope nobody else in the world ever has to have this conversation with their child - "Mom? Can you look at the news online?" "Why hon?" "You know Blake from my class? Xxxx says his mom shot him. Would that be on the news? Can you check, he was my friend?"
I have nothing to say to him. Not one thing.
Its Abby
Correction, one of my sons was in class with Abigayle, I typed the name incorrectly and can't see any way to edit the post.
My apologies...
I was fortunate enough to have been suprised by a reporter thurs morning. So I went by the house. And thats when I pretty much, kinda confirmed it. But I've kept the kids away from all news. Thats why I put up the sign. Cause they've been coming out of the woodwork. So I just put the sign up. I didnt even stay home on Thurs. I'm sorry you had to tell your son. I just cant bear to tell my kids. Not yet.
I don't get all the speculation about the water park, family didn't know, friends didn't know etc....
That's all pointless. She knew they were going "somewhere" and agreed to it ahead of time. So whereever they were going it obviously was NOT some harebrained crazy idea as far as the rest of the family was concerned. And if it made sense to the family, there's no reason to tell LE a different story.
He did NOT roust them all out of bed at 4 am and order them into the car. If I did that to my family, I'd be shot alright...before I got out the door.
There is a heated little discussion about our topic here on WGN radio in Chicago.
anon, he heard from his friends at the park, and it was the talk of the (8 YEAR OLD) baseball game last night. You might want to break the news before someone's kid does it for you.
fair enough SS, that's why I called it a rant in the first place but I am certain my math is not that far off.
even the part about stated income
however....
we are all fooling ouselves if we think there's a hares breath chance he is not a suspect and that he will not be charged.....all suppostion heresay rumors and speculation aside.
this is a layup slamdunk swish whatever we want to call it.
done.
I am surprised they will let him attend the events. It makes me sad.
cv drug use was offered up as pure speculation on how this bizarre family murder may have "made sense" as the perfect way to leave a way of life behind. No need to accuse theorizers of drug use velouria - yes, of course its hard for you to theorize any explanation for kv being the shooter - but attacking adds little to the discussion. 
cv w/o drug use (illegal OR pharmaceutical) = sociopathic grandeur delusional family murderer
I dont live in the same area as you. So I'm not so concerned with that. But how do you say "the kids were harmed." And died. I dont know I just dont know how. I still see them in my home. I'm just hoping that it really isnt them and just some elaborate hoax. We all know how smart they all were.
Oswego neighbors, we know it's going to be hard for you to attend the wake and funeral with CV in the room. I'm sure you will looking at him to see if you can see his what his attitude will be. We can sit and chirp all we want but we are not in your shoes with media at your doorstep. We wish you and your families the best.
We would have to travel to St. Charles. One of our friends wanted to go, but didnt want to go alone. And I only met her parents once. And I can't go, because of the kids. So we called one of the teachers to see if she wanted to go. But the thing is, we didnt want to be down there alone. I mean what would we say, or act. I was friends with Kim and the kids. What do you do?
There having some sort of ceremony for them in Oswego tonight. But I don't want to be around people gossiping about there financial situation,etc. If I know Kim, She would NEVER speak to anyone about being broke. And I know she wouldnt want all of her business out there the way the papers have done
anon if you live in Oswego both schools the kids attended have social workers & counselors on staff dealing with calls & are available for kids/parents to speak to if needed. It would be nice if someone who knew them better (my kids were simply in school with theirs) would organize a memorial locally, but it would just turn into a media circus so that might be counter-productive.
I believe for the most part we are alone in our grief and that it's appropriate to leave the family to theirs come funeral-time.
This is all just so very sad.
I just wish the cops would either arrest him or exculpate him before the funeral. I suspect that if they had exculpatory evidence, it would leak so that there would be less of a cloud of suspicion hanging over Chris at the funeral.
I firmly believe he is guilty for these murders and it nauseates me that he will sit there with the poor woman's family as they suffer.
It is impossible to fathom the mentality of the person who would do this to his family and then attend the funeral like nothing happened.
Edgarpoe - Exactly -
1. My wife and I take day trips all of the time. And I know we do not call our parents to let them know.
2. taking a day trip to Springfield from the Southwest burbs of Chicago is not that crazy...even if you have to be home that evening.
3. Leaving at 4:45 in the am for a day trip a few hours away is not crazy either.
4. Ending up where they did - although seems very strange and suspicious at this point can be explained by many factors. He did not know where he was, may have pulled off of 55 fixed the luggage, then simply mistook the frontage rd for the entrance back on to 55. That cell driveway is the first place to turn around. And who knows what the conversation was in the car at that point? may have been an argument that escalated into rage (KV or CV).
Point is, alot of the points being made on this board as Absolute Evidence Against CV is actually explainable. The problem with this board and why I called it a vacuum earlier is that there is many with the same point of view, so it has been very easy for these factors to support your theory and your theory only...instead of keeping an open point of view.
Wow, and then there was silence.
Anonymous,
It would be totally appropriate for you to attend the wake but if you feel that you just can't do it I'm sure no one would hold it against you. This must be a very tough time for you and your family. Hopefully this will all be resolved soon.
Wow, and then there was silence. And for some reason why isn't it posting this sentence. Let see if it works now
"If I know Kim, She would NEVER speak to anyone about being broke. "
That's a very interesting comment. It indicates at least one person who knew her believes she would keep bad, or embarrassing, news very private.
Perhaps the comments from her family and neighbors about knowing everything about her and her outwardly bubbly demeanor don't necessarily mean so much.
I'm in Oswego but didn't know them. My 8 year old daughter went to different school; my son's at OHS. You just have to tell them as gently as you can. In the Ledger yesterday they said that anyone who called the school district and needed to talk with a counselor would be put in contact with one.
I was interested by the poster who knows them and said CV was acting nonchalant. I know all the arguments about different reactions to grief, etc etc etc. Your wife, presumably on a carefree trip with the kids, shoots you, blows away all three of your kids and shoots herself in the head. Everything that your life was about 10 days ago has changed forever. Nonchalant seems like an extremely suspicious response.
Sorry, nothing was showing up. I didnt see any comments or anything. I think I'm getti