Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
Magnificent! To be ordained to the priesthood amidst such heavenly splendor, is a great grace and a forestaste of the interior reality of the priestly life.
Btw, is Cardinal George wearing a pontifical dalmatic?
unfortunately it does not seem so. Look at picture 8 and 12 on cantius.org
Am I right or wrong in thinking that the pain of glass on the high altar of St John Cantius which caused such excitement among commentators not long ago has been removed?
Indeed, Fr Symondson, I think you are right. Another - small, but not insignificant - positive element in this altogether praiseworthy celebration.
I just want to point out that this is not the first time that Card. George ordained Canons in an ordinary form Latin-Mass offered ad orientem. I was present at an ordination in 2005 and recall two auxiliairies being present in choir dress then as well.
David
I have a question about something I've noticed while attending the extraordinary form but have never seen done in the ordinary form until now. Why does the deacon hold the back of the chasuble up at the elevation? Does it make the elevation of the host easier for the celebrant, or is there some other reason that it is done?
Anonymous
I believe that holding up the chasuble at elevations dates from a time when vestments were so heavy that help was needed to free the celebrant's arms. What started practically became formalized.
Gregor,
May I have your email address, please, I have some news or, if you prefer, drop me a note at symondson@googlemail.com.
For some reason I had heard hat one ordinand celebrated their first mass in the Novus Ordo/latin/ad apsidem, and the other ordinand used the EF.
Who can confirm?
Papabile,
The SJC website indicates that both new priests celebrated with the Extraordinary Form.
Of course, in their ministry as priests with SJC, they will regularly say both forms including English and Latin.
For their first Masses, both Father Anthony and Father Bart celebrated Solemn High Masses according to the Traditional Missal last Sunday. I was present for both.
I don't understand why the back of the chasuble is being held since this is a novus ordo mass. IT'S NOT A RUBRIC IN THE NOVUS ORDO. Why do people insist that mixing rubrics advances liturgical reform? It doesn't!
I think it is wonderful that the Canons offer the Mass in both the EF and the OF. That is the way things should be!
God bless and congratulations to the two new priests and the SSJC. I thought Fr. Bart was a permanent deacon. Was there any canonical process he had to go through or are all permant deacons transitional deacons in potentia?
dc
how do you think any real reform of the reform of the OF will take place if elements of the EF are not allowed to be re-introduced to it.
Unlike the EF the OF allows for "choices" and unless its specifically abrograted in girm I dont see a problem.
I believe it is precisely this reason why the Pope issued his moto proprio.
DC,
I'd like to direct you (if you haven't read it yet, or else again) to Fr Finigan's excellent post Is your alb back to front?.
Fr Symondson,
I'm not sure whether you got my note, so here is my email address again: gregor.kollmorgen [at] t-online.de
Regarding holding the chausible, I'd say it makes sense to do so in the new rite simply for practical reasons as it is a rather elaborate Gothic chasuble, the same way you hold a priest's chausuble when he is censing lest he set himself on fire. I think the "rubric" in the EF for this was originally pragmatic in character (ie, only done if necessary) and may well still be, at least in theory.
I am not debating the beauty of such rubrics in the EF, I just can't see the logic behind "adding" rubrics from one rite to another, because it creates the slippery slope to allowing a liturgical relativism. Just because we think it's beautiful and noble, does not give us the right to add things to the rite, just as we all decry the liberties that are taken when priests add things to mass that we don't like. Let us carry our reasoning through logically to advance to work of reform.
DC,
if you follow the link I have given you, you will see where such logical reasoning without common sense will lead. The 1962 missal expressly tells the deacon to lift the hem of the chasuble. The 1969 missal does not, but neither does it tell him not to lift the chasuble. Why does it follow that the lifting is prohibited in the ordinary form, when, as Matthew has pointed out, it makes sense for practical reasons?
In my opinion the best guide to ceremonial and the application of Novus Ordo rubrics is 'Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite; the Eucharist and the Liturgy of the Hours: a Manual for Clergy and All Involved in Liturgical Ministries', by Peter Elliott, Ignatius Press, 1994.
I think DC has expressed the case well and clearly and this book, known to many who read the NLM website and who probably use Bishop Elliott's book anyway, will achieve what he desires. There is a natural tendency among some of the younger clergy to elaborate the liturgical restraint of the Ordinary Form. They see one cense the elements in the old form at the offertory, or another make the sign of the cross with the chalice before receiving Holy Communion, or a server will insist on ringing the bell three times at each elevation, for instance, copy and encourage them, think they are being traditional, and so bad habits creep in. And I fear that many of the older 'say the black and do the red' brigade are equally idiosyncratic. It is, I suggest, all to do with deprivation, but it is best to get both the OF and EF right on their own terms as Mgr Marini does in Rome.
Does anyone know if the ordinands offered their respective Masses of Thanksgiving on Sunday using the Mass of the Third Sunday after Pentecost... or of the "external solemnity" of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus?
Remember the military proverb...
"ONE CAN ADD TOO BUT NOT TAKE AWAY FROM"
I was not at Fr. Rice's Mass in the morning. As I recall at 12:30 Fr. Juncer offered Mass using "external solemnity" of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus.
They both celebrated the external solemnity.
"The Junc" was ordained a priest ... fabulous! I will have to send my congrats. I too am curious how this happened because I know he was a Permanent Deacon. I also know that to move from that state to the priestly state takes some work. I would like to hear that story.
I was present for Fr. Al Tamari's Ordination and at that Mass Cardinal George also celebrated ad orientem in latin OF under the Mozart's Coronation Mass. I think that this is the norm for their ordinations.
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