Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
Shawn, do you know who's organizing this (especially the "High Mass"). Do you know if that will be a Solemn Mass and/or who is celebrating it?
Seton Hall isn't that far away from St. Agnes, Our Savior, and the FSSP chapel in Pequannock. I wouldn't be surprised if the celebrant is a priest from one of those communities.
Maybe it will be Fr. John Grimm, who spent many months at Old St. Mary's in Washington, DC. Fr. Grimm is on the faculty there.
He is a fine preacher and does the Extraordinary Form (aka, TLM) beautifully.
I took a few pictures in that venerable church and one of my favorites is of Fr. Grimm serving communion at the rail at Old St. Mary's.
Thank you Seton Hall for taking such this strong leadership role in the reform of the reform.
The Latin Masses at Seton Hall University are being organized by the Campus Ministry at the school.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the members of the priest community celebrated the Mass. SHU has both a college seminary (St. Andrew's) and a major seminary (Immmaculate Conception), and is in fact owned by the Archdiocese of Newark. There are some very fine and capable priests who could celebrate the Mass _usus antiquor_ (Fr. James Spera, the head of campus ministry and vice-rector of the college seminary comes to mind).
I always thought that the Mass of Vatican II was the TLM and the Novus Ordo, the Bugnini Committee special, created in 1968 or 3 years following the conclusion of the Council was not the Mass of Vatican II. Am I missing something? Tom
Michael, "Seton Hall isn't that far away from St. Agnes, Our Savior, and the FSSP chapel in Pequannock."
All of those parishes are outside of the Archdiocese of Newark. The Archdiocese has regular TLM's in five locations and it would make more sense for one of the priests who regularly celebrate the TLM in the archdiocese to be the celebrant.
For the benefit of readers who are not familiar with the situation in the Arch. of Newark, there is St. Anthony of Padua Chapel, a fully traditional community, in West Orange which is administered by the Institute of Christ the King; Holy Rosary Church in Jersey City; St. Lucy Church in Newark which is only a block or two away from the cathedral (a neo-gothic gem); Our Lady of Victories in Harrington Park; and Holy Redeemer Parish in West New York. Fr. Grimm celebrates the TLM for at least two of these parishes that I know of - a sung Mass at Holy Rosary and a low Mass at OLV.
I wonder if the famous (and orthodox Catholic) philosopher of science Fr. Stanley Jaki will be a celebrant at any of these. I believe he is still at Seton Hall.
Or Monsignor Turro who is a scripture scholar at Seton Hall, what a wonderful Priest
TJM-you are absolutely correct.The only Roman rite,outside the Ambrosian ,celebrated at VII was the Tridentine rite according to the 62 missal and later somewhat according to the 65 one.
These Masses never seem to be on Sundays. Does anyone know why?
Sunday Mass schedules are usually "too full" to accomodate the TLM. Monday at 6pm isn't the greatest time for this Mass, but hopefully it will be well attended.
Fr. McAfee, I think you probably meant to say, "the only Latin rite..." rather than Roman rite since the Ambrosian rite is distinct from the Roman rite.
I hate to be cynical, but I believe the TLM is often relegated to an inconvenient slot in the afternoon to make sure regular parishioners don't get the idea the 1962 Missal is becoming a part of mainstream Catholicism. When I first started to ask questions about the TLM as a kid, our "pastoral associate" explained to my mother that bishops intentionally permitted these masses to be said only at inconvenient times and places to discourage newcomers and keep the old missal on the fringes of the Catholic world. Not saying that's the case here, but I think this explains why a lot of TLMs out there are said on a Sunday afternoon in a slum no one wants to go to. Evening Masses are problematic. For centuries, and up to the present day in the East, Masses couldn't be said after noon (with very few exceptions), and everyone who planned to receive had to fast from the midnight before. How is possible to maintain this traditional practice when your Mass starts at 3pm?
Michael, I agree. I think for the immediate future the Novus Ordo in English should be relegated to these odd times and the TLM scheduled for the convenient times on Sunday. I suspect the TLM would flourish and there would be hardly anyone but the celebrant at the Novus Ordo. Tom
Fr. John Grimm, JD, STL (Diocese of Wilmington, DE) will be celebrating the Solemn High Mass according to the Extraordinary Rite and Fr. Douglas Milewski, STD (Archdiocese of Newark) will be celebrating the Latin Mass according to the Novus Ordo Missal.
The Seton Hall Chapel built in the late 1800's is being restored and will include a new High Altar and Side Altars that will accommodate both Masses nicely. It will be finished in November 2008.
I have been waiting for this moment for 3 years.
Believe you me, knowing Fr. Jim Spera (I'm a member of the college seminary of which he is vice-rector), having these Masses in the evening has nothing to do with any agenda against these traditional liturgies. Fr. Spera has expressed that he is open to these traditional forms and seems to me to appreciate their beauty.
The reason for holding these masses in the time slot that they are, I believe, is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that some are still put off by the idea of Latin Masses, and should still be given the option to attend the college's daily masses in English. Also, as the campus chapel is being restored to something of its former glory, masses are held in the campus auditorium - not the best place for a Mass in the extraordinary use. The temporary chapel in the campus ministry lounge is actually quite nice. That being said, I really do believe that the best possible time and place has been chosen.
Joe, they're "put off" by the Mass being celebrated in the Church's mother tongue, preserved by the mandate of Vatican II? That's stunning and puerile. I'd expect better in a college community of supposedly highly educated individuals. Tom
athansius1998, Msgr. Turro regularly celebrates the TLM at Our Lady of Victories in Harrington Park.
I agree with your observation, Tom, and I do indeed agree with Michael C.'s misgivings about the sluggish changes of most diocese in response to the Motu Porprio. But, the fact simply remains that most Catholics have only just recently encounter the old mass, and being used to the current ways the liturgy is celebrated, it seems quite alien to them. Given time, I'm sure that the majority will come to embrace the beauty and grandeur of the Traditional Liturgies (both Tridentine and properly celebrated Novus Ordo).
Also, Tom, I hardly think it fair to call such people childish. We need to be as patient and understanding as we can with those who do not fully appreciate their heritage as Catholics A lack of this pastoral understanding can be counter-productive and will not have the desired effect of spreading interest in properly celebrated, Traditional Liturgies. Instead, those that love these liturgies (myself included) will continue to be seen (as has so often happened in the past) as bigoted elitists with no concern for the background and intellectual/spiritual formation of others. I'm not saying that any of us here are, but that we must be careful of what we say and how we act, and how these can be interpreted. Now, we all know how widespread Liturgical abuses were in the past, and how vigorously suppressed the Tridentine Missal has been until recently. People's lack of understanding in regards to these Liturgical issues is just a symptom of the problem we're trying to fix. Let's be patient and understanding that we might educate with our example as many as we can.
I think Fr. Spera's decision in regard to time and place for these Masses was prudent and well thought out. He has given many opportunities throughout the month to attend one of these Liturgies, and has well publicized the event. Furthermore, it is a known fact among many groups on campus that there is a Tradition Latin Rite parish not ten minutes down the road, so the Tridentine Mass is always accessible at a convenient time.
You are very fortunate to have Father Grimm up there. He was in-residence at Saint Mary's in D.C. while studying for his degree and worked very hard to learn how to say Mass, eventually saying it on a regular, rotating basis. We miss him!
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