Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
Coming soon. To a parish near you,
from the producers of Swiss Ninja Death Squad, Chanting with the Stars, and So You Wanna Be a Hermit.
-----------------------------
In a world that doesn't understand the mind of the Council Fathers...
[sad scenes of your favorite liturgical abuses]
When you need the Sacraments.
When you want the Extraordinary Form.
When no one has been trained.
When even your bishop won't help you.
Maybe you can call in --
Ecclesia Dei: Special Ops.
[quick cuts of priests on motorcycles, priests on skis in snowy barrens, priests crawling on their belly through underbrush, priests parachuting]
[Shot of priest at just opened door.]
"I'm from the Vatican, and I'm here to help you."
[quick cuts of various traditional forms of the Sacraments and other devotions, each led by a priest in full traditional array.]
Good guys wear black!
Ecclesia Dei: Special Ops.
Where will Ecclesia Dei get these priests?
Good Question, Fr. Blake. But I think there are a fair amount of traditionalist priests around who won't say the new mass and have no place to go because they don't want to belong to an institute; their vocations are secular. ED could help provide them with permanent diocesan cures.
I've always fantasized that if I were to win the lottery, I'd build a Collegiate Church with a large canonry for just such priests. (Yes, I know that only the Holy Father can establish collegiate churches, but you get my drift, I hope.)
What would Rome be without its rumours ?
However, I am inclined to believe the general substance of this one. Bruno Volpe is a most respected observer of the Roman scene.
As to the "stable group", we know what the word group means. The minium number of a group is three. If Summorum Pontificum meant something else, it should have used a different word. No, I don't think we will see any pronouncement on what is the minimum number.
The most pressing question concerns the shortage of priests who are idoneus, and what realistically Ecclesa Dei can do in an area where there is a genuine shortage. I think the idea will be to establish what it can do (not necessarily what it will do), to intervene. This will be very interesting. It (presumably) would give Ecclesia Dei greater powers or at least clarify its present powers, which are somewhat unclear.
We shall see !
A cassock would make a great parachute.
I will be retired from parish life in a few years and would be glad to be an Ecclesia Dei operative. I served in the US army so I can crawl on my belly under barbed wire with live ammunition being fired over me and do some other neat things. I think I could even disarm, or maybe even disable, a French bishop. Well..maybe not. Anyway,liturgically,so far,all I can do is a Low Mass, but I am still trainable and could surely manage the Missa Cantata someday even in greater old age.
Ever onward,Ecclesia Dei!
God Bless you, Padre. I can already see the PCED "extraordinary ops" forces coming together.
Maureen, brava! I can almost see the video!
Padre Vecchio, maybe a little Jedi thought manipulation?
Padre, that was good! Tom
I've got an 30-06 M1 Garand rifle in excellent condition, and I am a Ex Marine Corps sharpshooter and can join forces with Father Vecchio to safely bring him and the Ecclesia Dei to a parish near you.
OOO RAH!
"the Commission Ecclesia Dei will authoritatively ("di imperio") send a priest able to do so to that diocese."
If this statement turns out to be true would this mean that if the diocese already has a priest offering the TLM, then Ecclesia Dei would not step in?
In other words my diocese has several priests that offer the Gregorian Rite, but the nearest one is 75 miles away.
If I and two others ask for the Mass down the street, will Ecclesia Dei help.
Is it "parish" or "diocese" we are talking about here?
Some dioceses are enormous.
Still, encouraging though.
Maureen-
That's hilarious!You have a great sense of humour.
I feel like I am back in 2006. In any case, this omits one important question: will the Holy See ask for TLM training in seminaries?
This is almost implied in SP, "If he cannot arrange for such a celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission..."
Finally, I don't think it is because the minimum number is 3 that they wouldn't give a number. Rather, it is because parishes vary, and therefore what would be reasonable would vary regarding the addition of Masses. The pastor has to have a certain amount of space to make a prudential judgement. An overworked pastor in a large parish might not be able to adjust the parish schedule to accomodate three people (though I hope he could).
"...have no place to go because they don't want to belong to an institute; their vocations are secular."
The FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King are both secular.
Well, it will be interesting if the instruction finally tackles the issue of trination.
Without that issue being clearly addressed and loosened, it means that the minimum number of the group effectively needs to be a majority of the regularly attending number at the least-attended Sunday mass, as it were.
The minimum number idea was ditched in 2007 precisely because the circumstances will vary from place to place.
If someone imagines that three people is sufficient to try to force a pastor to convert a standing scheduled Sunday MAss from OF to EF, and expects Rome is somehow going to enforce that, well, I would like some of what he or she is smoking, because it's good stuff....
Also, if you read the story carefully, you will note that ED is not going to promise a priest for each parish. A priest per diocese is what seems to be the intended message.
Amen, Liam. A reasonable voice in the desert.
My pastor would like to have a validly ordained and vetted priest come to our parish the week after Easter, so he can take a vacation for the first time in a decade.
He can say the Mass in any language he likes.
Once again, we find absurdity and silliness reigning.
How is this alleged "solution" any different from that of the Anglicans with their "flying bishops"?
"Also, if you read the story carefully, you will note that ED is not going to promise a priest for each parish. A priest per diocese is what seems to be the intended message."
Liam,
Hopefully not, since that would leave hundreds of people out in the cold who want to assist at the TLM, unless they of course they live in a 10 acre diocese.
In most places this would change nothing.
It seems from what I have been observing here and elsewhere is that there are in fact seminaries in the US such as Kenrick-Glennon where training in the EF is being offered. In addition there are the FSSP, IRRC, and the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius which celebrate the EF as part of their apostolate. There are also workshops teaching the EF that appear to be fairly well attended by young diocesan and order priests generous in their desire to be priests for all Catholics, including those attached to the EF. It would seem then that over a period of time there will be a sufficient number of priests trained in the EF to serve the need. Quite, frankly, I worry that there will not be enough priests trained to celebrate the OF properly, a continuing problem these past 38 years in most places. All 3 priests in my parish are in dire need of remedial training in the OF . Is there a workshop they can go to? Tom
Uh...Dan, that's "former" Marine, Not EX. It's good to know you're a fellow devil dog.
A priest fo every diocese, that could still involve hundreds if not thousands of priests.
Bishops in S. America or Africa where one priest is serving tens of thousands of people who get Mass opnce a year will leap at this possibility.
I would imagine the reality is that ED will actually invite -or demand- diocesan bishops to send priests to training sessions organised by ED.
Father Blake,
It seems to me, should this rumor prove to be true, that the main significance of this "sending priests" business is one of 1. symbolism (most important) and 2. pressure being put on semi-schismatic bishops refusing to admit Tradition, the Pope´s will and Church law. No one would be able to claim all sorts of nonsense regarding SP and the traditonal liturgy. Obviously, very few bishops would let it go so far as having to look on in himiliation while the SP Clerical Squad takes over.
Accordinlgy, in order to be efficient, this measure doesn´t need the ED Commission to have at its disposal a reserve of thousands of priests ready to go.
Dan
Where do you think ED would come up with a priest for every parish? Necromancy?
How is this alleged "solution" any different from that of the Anglicans with their "flying bishops"?
How is it similar? Bishop says he cannot have a TLM in the diocese because he cannot spare a priest. PCED sends a priest. The similarities are superficial at best.
While it must be considered a rumor, the statement about the PCED intervening to send a priest seems to be consistent with already existing provisions in SP:
Art. 7. If a group of lay faithful, as mentioned in art. 5 ő 1, has not obtained satisfaction to their requests from the pastor, they should inform the diocesan bishop. The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei".
Art. 8. A bishop who, desirous of satisfying such requests, but who for various reasons is unable to do so, may refer the problem to the Commission "Ecclesia Dei" to obtain counsel and assistance.
___
wouldn't the "news" simply be that they are clarifying HOW PCED will assist the Bishops in fulfilling these requests? I understand that there is a certain threat to Bishops with this move, as it further takes it out of their hands. It was noted on another prominent blog that with the publication of SP, Bishops have finally begun to implement Ecclesia Dei Afflicta. Perhaps with these further escalations, Bishops will then implement SP to avoid having ALL of the power taken from them.
The stable group number of 3 should indeed be sufficient to start a TLM in any parish, big or small. The idea, I believe is for this form to grow and attract new followers. With the correct implementation and encouragement from Diocesean officials promulgation would not be difficult. The attitude should be the growth of the TLM and not to offer it for the 3 people who will die off and then to cancel it due to no interest. Engaging people and allowing the flexability of a parish to offer both forms side by side so people can freely drift from one to the other.
Donald -
Re: the week after Easter, you should ask around about retired priests. Even outside your diocese or in a religious order. One of these guys might very well enjoy taking a spring vacation out your way, and be willing to oblige with Mass also.
Obviously you'd have to pay him a stipend and maybe give him gas money (or maybe even his airfare, if you're somewhere really really remote). But honestly, it sounds like it would be possible, and a nice thing to do for your pastor.
It is encouraging to hear Section VI does not seem to be the main focus anymore for the clarification. What? People are actually interested in furthering the cause of the traditional LATIN Mass instead of creating a hybrid?
We have come a long way in a year.
the statement about the PCED intervening to send a priest seems to be consistent with already existing provisions in SP
Not to mention consistent with the Pope's universal and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church as defined by Vatican I. :-)
Fr. Blake and others have asked or addressed themselves to the question: "Where will Ecclesia Dei get these priests?"
Just after SP was released, a bishop whose advice on matters traditional has often been sought by Rome - I shall refer to him as "Deep Purple" - told me that that H.H. was very concerned about the situation of the traditionalist clerici vagi. "Deep Purple" believed that serious consideration was being given to creating some new entity *under the P.C.E.D.* that would permit the vagi to become incardinated under a sypathetic bishop and given appropriate assignments.
I also recall hearing that the P.C.E.D. was going to be "upgraded" to a Roman Congregation. "Deep Purple" thought that was likely as well, particularly in light of the aforementioned scheme.
We shall of course have to wait and see if it all comes to fruition...
There is another problem to clarify.
If there are faithfuls from different parishes? There are many dioceses with this situation in all Europe (perhaps not in France, but in the other states surely). We'll see if this point will be clarify or not. This is a strong argument for the bishops today.
Maureen: Ecclesia Dei: Special Ops.
Too funny! Obviously these priests will have to be in top form, so here're an updated US Army cadence song for our "Black Ops" priests to "chant" when marching or running in formation. Some of our veterans will recognize this Airborne "classic":
Apologies to: "C-130 Rolling Down the Strip,” a double-time (jogging) cadence; one version found at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=S...feature=related
P-C-E-D sanctioned a hit/
Airborne Padre gonna take a little trip/
Mission top-secret, destination unknown/
Don't even know when he's returning to Rome./
Genuflect, stand up, sign the Cross/
Times are tough, so you kneel to the “Boss”/
Choirmaster picks you up with care/
And directly points you “Over there!”/
One thousand, two thousand, three thousand, FOUR!
If Latin Mass don't open wide/
There'll be trouble in the country side./
If I die on LA's shore/
Don't bury me under their cathedral's floor/
If I die on the Russian Front/
Bury me and sing Gregorian Chant./
And if I die on a Greecian night/
Bury me in the Eastern Rite./
If I die in the mission zone/
Box me up and ship me home/
Pin angel's wings upon my chest/
Tell my Pope I did my best!/
When I get to Heaven
St. Peter's gonna say
How'd you earn your living
How'd you earn your pay
I'll reply somewhat humbly ....
Earned my pay as an Airborne Padre
Bells, Smells, & Latin's no stranger
That's the life ... of a TLM Ranger!
Hey-hey! How we pray: in Latin every day!/
Hoo-RAH!!!!
Wow. I didn't know what I was starting!
16 Visitors Online
Commenting by HaloScan
