Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
It is my hope that with an upcoming move, I will have access to a Mass offered by the FSSP. In that new place there is currently a monthly Mass but it is to be weekly by year's end and there are plans for a chapel and, God willing, a future parish. I pray I will be a part of this!
THANK YOU for this! Just what I have been waiting for - for YEARS!!!
Thank you for this - John (Ireland).
Great initiatives!
I am going to look them over more closely and consider promoting something similar for my area.
i am continually (and pleasantly) amazed at how young and numerous the the vocations to traditional orders are.
for good shepherd sunday, my parish priest spoke of the church's need of vocations (yet four of the five altar servers were girls) and his desire that the church will soon abandon priestly celibacy.
modernists don't lack vocations because of celibacy. they lack vocations because they lack doctrine.
restore the faith of the church and you'll restore the vocations, and not
just to the priesthood, but to women religious as well.
Mick, John:
Do please let us (i.e. me) know if there's content you feel is lacking. I want these to keep growing and meeting the needs of the audience.
Shawn: thank you so much for mentioning these. I am indebted. :)
God bless,
Mark
Voice in the Wilderness, actually I know of a few people (good honest Catholics) who have applied to various female religious orders which we might consider modernist (the Josephites in Australia for one) and were knocked back because they were thought to be lacking in "life experience." In one case, the person was apparently told to go out and have a few more boyfriends: It is not just their lack of doctrine that is killing vocations to modernist religious orders, but an almost suicidal tendency among certain religious.
Is there anybody in Ireland promoting traditional vocations?
The growth of vocations to traditional religious orders is wonderful, but it should be met with more seminary rooms and instructors. Please don't forget that there are times when some prospective vocations are turned away or made to wait because of the lack of available space for them in the few Traditional congregations that there are.
Mark,
Have for years been considering Priesthood. Trouble is, I wouldn't last a week in Maynooth! The only thing that seriously puts me off traditional vocation is that the chances are I would never minister in Ireland...
Any thoughts?
Mick
I plan to go to Maynooth this year. I hope I will last, but I know with my prayers to God, if it is my vocation I will. Unfort there is no traditional group in Ireland.
Great blogs but some of those groups listed on the "Trad Vocations" blog are bi-ritual. Is it really accurate to say that they are devoted entirely to the traditional liturgy of the church? Most men considering a traditional vocation perhaps want to say the old rites more often.
Otherwise - keep it up!
I'm afraid, all I hear from Maynooth these days is stories of liturgical experimentation, etc, etc, etc... Anyone with a traditional mindset, is simply, "not what we are looking for". Take for example the Masses broadcasted live on RTE on the first Sunday of every month. This month, Mass came live from Ballymun, Dublin. While I would NEVER doubt the sincerity of all involved, it was appaling. A gospel choir singing the now, cliched song, 'O happy day' is hardly fitting for the Roman Liturgy - the "source and summit" of the Church's life (JPII). Check out the video from the Mass at http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ...h?
v=jQ8CvN9PL1g. THIS and MORE - much MORE, is what is being unwittingly promoted from the top. One need only look at the music promoted by Maynooth at their Church Music Summer School (Liam Lawton, etc, etc, - TERRIBLE) - where is the Sacred Chant and polophony!!! I may come across as narrow-minded, and perhaps I am to a point - but I speak as a very disillusioned organist and choir director with many years experience. It is MOST encouraging to log onto this website daily and see the reform of the reform active - may God grant health and long life to the present Holy Father!
Mick
Folks,
I'm involved in the two blogs. The ICRSP is in Limerick once a month. The FSSP has been invited into Kildare and Leighlin and we're working on improving the conditions. I don't know how things stand in Limerick but in Kildare we have been working for this for 15 years and we're determined to keep working on it until a full apostolate is formed. In God's good time, that will mean a House of Formation for all those vocations being lost or ignored in Ireland at the moment.
To those of you considering Maynooth, I hope that God blesses you in your journey but, for those who realise that Maynooth (which is getting 'better', I hear) will not nourish a vocation to the Extraordinary Form, I can only beg you to consider the FSSP. Contact Fr. Emerson in Edinburgh. Speak to him.
As someone earlier said, seminary space is at a premium. Also, the SJYPS may not fund seminarians for the EF. Certainly, there is a question of exile for Christ.
The EF gives us the marvellous graces of suffering and loss. I often consider what a privilege it is to have Our Lord look down on 'trads' and to see them despised, rejected, persecuted, hampered, and all by their own Priests and their own community. How familiar it must all look to Him.
However, speaking as a layman who has been struggling to restore full Traditional Catholic life to Kildare for half my life (30 years of age), we need you! Things can get better. Things may even improve. We might even save Catholic Ireland but we need Priests. We need Holy Priests. We need courageous and Holy Priests.
The prospect that faces us is not a million miles from the days of persecution when young men had to go abroad to train to come home and work in secret or in persecution. More than ever, today, poor old Ireland needs you!
No cross, no crown!
God bless,
Thomas
lepanto@catholic.org
p.s.
You can see why Mark does the all the up-beat postings!!!
p.p.s.
Feel free to contact me. We may be able to help.
Re. bi-ritualism, we took a decision to be 'fairly' exclusive.
It's hard not to help someone who has a vocation to a 'trad-ish' congregation but not to 'trad-hating' or 'trad-only' congregations.
No intention to confuse people, just to get the information out there. You just can't imagine how many good vocations are lost in Ireland (I don't know about Scotland) each year.
Mark,
Great to hear and God bless you in your efforts to promote Traditional Vocations in Ireland - long time needed. At this stage, I believe God is not just calling me but shouting at me :) Will certainly look into FSSP as, I'm afraid, Maynooth would most certainly turn me away :) Mick
Mark/Thomas,
Well done on all your efforts to promote Traditional vocations in Ireland!
Mick - Limerick
Mark/Thomas - well done.
I agree that there is a need to promote vocations to traditional orders AND to reform of the reform orders (for example I would encouage anyone looking at the Oratorians - based on my experience of their Oxford house).
I have thought about and struggled with the thought of a vocation (I'm Irish) for some time. Like Mick - I would fear that Maynooth and subsequent service in an Irish diocese could be very, very testing for a man of traditional/trad-ish/reform of the reform views. I have a similar view of many "native" orders in Ireland. Although I know, of course that countless diocesan priests and religious brothers and sisters do God's work day in day out in Ireland.
My concern about a traditional order is, not so much having to travel for formation and perhaps service but rather the more vulgar subject of funding.
Does the FSSP, etc expect seminarians to fund the cost of their studies??
Santiago - I'm glad that you make the point about many excellent men in Dioceses and Orders. I agree.
I'm afraid that the FSSP and the other traditional congregations (as far as I know) do 'expect' that Seminarians will cover their own costs. However, I don't know how far 'expect' is from 'require'. $6,000 was the cost per year, last time I heard. (Thank God for the strong €!). This is a valid concern but several Irish young men have tried their vocation with the Fraternity before and I don't see why they couldn't in the future.
A few years ago, we (the trads in Kildare) wanted to establish a branch of the St. Joseph's Young Priests Society, which funds Irish Seminarians, and asked merely that an applicant for funding wouldn't be refused merely because he was attending a seminary using the Extraordinary Form. Sadly, the response was 'no room for the Latin Mass here'. This may have changed with the MP but we'll have to wait and see.
I can only repeat that you should give it a try. I can be contacted at lepanto@catholic.org, if anyone is interested in persuing this. For example, we're hoping to have an FSSP vocations retreat in Ireland soon.
Deus Providebit!
God bless you!
Thomas. Thanks for the information.
Establishing a link with the SJYPS strikes me as an excellent idea - it's a pity it wasn't looked on more favourably.
It's still quite shocking that fine religious orders (FSSP, ICRSP), doing God's work and in excellent standing with Rome are still considered, by some, to be anything other than a huge blessing for the Church.
To those who have commented from Ireland, keep praying and live in hope...even though from a human point of view Ireland is almost a lost cause, it will at some stage reach rock bottom where there will be few priests and candidates that are not traditional...
On a different note...does anyone know any traditional group of priests who will consider a 'very late' vocation...someone who spent 2-3 years in a NO seminary yaers ago, but who could stomach no more? Age is more my problem than funding
Maria, Ora pro nobis
I have a concern with referring to vocations to religious societies whose members celebrate the extraordinary form as "traditional vocations" as though a call of someone to be a diocesan priest is not "traditional", whatever that means.
Yes, vocations to all kinds of religious orders are good, but the church needs more vocations to the diocesan priesthood since that is the mainstream of Church life. We cannot forget the need for good diocesan priests and we must not think that somehow the FSSP and ICKSP are the saviours of the Church.
I agree Mark k, however, since Vatican II, the role of the priest has diminished. Lay people can pretty much say Mass now - except of course for the narrative, Eucharistic prayer. I cringe when I hear the priest being referred to as the 'presider' - or president of the assembly. Gives the impression that it can be anyone who presides. Anyhow, the sooner the heirarchy makes provisions for a traditional seminary in Ireland, the better. We live in hope.
Mark K - I agree, the diocesan priesthood is the mainstream of church life - no doubt. The problem in Ireland at this point in time is that the diocesan priesthood and the seminary forming those priests are not friendly to those men who are keen to follow a more traditional path (however you want to define that - regular use of EF, pre-VII vestment styles, church music, preaching, etc). That is just an unfortunate fact.
What the FSSP and ICRSP (and also reform of the reform communities such as the Oratorians) is an opportunity for vocation for men who are attracted to such a life.
But there is also a good argument for saying that the diocesan priesthood can be strenghtened and changed by such men.
I know that there are lots of trads in high places: Justice Scalia, Robert Novak, and Pat Buchanan to name a few. Perhaps they can be tapped to help fund traditional vocations.
It is, after all, tax deductible. I'm tempted to shift my donations from the Bishop's Appeal to traditional seminaries
Re. 'traditional vocations', I agree about the so many excellent Priests in Dioceses and other Orders, whether or not they say the EF. My phrase was merely shorthand. Re. funding for traditional seminaries (again, shorthand), I think it always has to be welcomed. So many good vocations may be lost for want of means. St. Clement Hofbauer and the Curé of Ars come to mind. If I had a few million, I'd build a wing in Denton.
If I knew a millionaire, I'd be on the 'phone before I stopped typing. Was it St. Theresa of Avila who said that I alone can do nothing, with God I can do almost anything, with God and money I can do everything.
Me again! I've just heard that a friend that the cost is €3,500 per annum in Wigratzbad and that nobody will be turned away for want of funds.
The spirit of St. Clement Hofbauer is alive and well in Wigratzbad, D.G!
First Irish applicant to let me know gets my full fund-raising attention!
God bless!
Anonymous:
You asked if there is anybody in Ireland promoting traditional vocations. To be honest, I don't know who else is, apart from Thomas and myself.
Mick:
I know what you mean. It is one of the things I have grappled with, myself. I love my homeland, Scotland, but I would likely not minister here either. In the end your needs in seminary formation, and what God is calling you to do will come to the fore. That will entail necessary sacrifices -- either being miserable at Maynooth, or likely not ministering in Ireland.
Hestor:
I appreciate your point and agree that some of them are not exclusive to the traditional form of the Mass. However, some of them are clearly gaining nourishment from that form, e.g. the Canons Regular of St John Cantius, and I would particularly like to include them.
J:
Most of them say they will consider everything on a case-by-case basis. Having previously attended seminary before is on your side. I would examine the various groups and ask the main ones. If you never ask, you never get... ;-)
Apologies for answering so late; I was away on business... I now see Thomas has stepped in and answered folks whilst I was away. Keep the comments and suggestions coming!
19 Visitors Online
Commenting by HaloScan
