Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
This is wonderful news! I only hope they don't have any commentators during the live celebration, as they normally do for the papal Masses.
Good! This will be a good thing because EWTN had been losing my interest as a Catholic network...
Hearty agreement about commentators. Before and after Mass, OK, but they should no more speak during Mass than anyone else in attendance. Nothing worse than to have a commentator telling us about what we're hearing rather than letting us hear it.
Agreed, let the Mass speak for Itself. But, what about this: later rebroadcasts with catechetical commentary.
Deo Gratias!
That is my one complaint about Archbishop Foley when he comments on Papal Masses. he does NOT restrain himself (or shut up :)
How I miss Bishop Agnellus Andrew OFM!!
This is pretty exciting for a couple reasons, not the least of which is that I'm from Nebraska. Great to hear of the pending travel of Cornhusker State priests and seminarians for participation in this special event.
Blessings,
Jeff Baker
DefendUsInBattle.org
EXCELLENT!!! What a history making event! Mother would be pleased indeed and I hope she will be in attendance. Now! If His Holiness would also celebrate according to the extradordinary form.....publically!
May God and all of heaven be praised by this action!
bjr
Wow. Given the prohibition to ad orientem Masses in their diocese all I can say is that was quick.
JPG
(great news as well)
Please do not be picky everybody, progress not perfection!
It is going to be a slow process
bringing people back.
EWTN hopefully broadcasts this mass at 12pm, 7pm and midnight, too, as it does with its dignified masses.
Wonderful news! I see this announcement and Bishop Baker's appointment two days ago as more than mere coincidence though...and I hope that their televised Masses of the ordinary form from the monastery also soon changes "direction!"
Deo gratias, Deo gratias ! On September the 14th, we will RESUME offering the Mass in ADORATION, CONTRITION, THANKSGIVING and SUPPLICATION.
Deo gratias ! FRED
I am simply amazed. Praise God!
I am amazed too! Pleasantly amazed. I had read somewhere, that most of the staff affiliated/employed at EWTN were very much Novus Ordo cheerleaders, with many being actually (ugh) Charismatics.
Now I'm happy to see that by this High Mass schedueled, this markes a change of direction, tone and outlook at EWTN.
And it is a remarkable turnaround from the anti-TLM, anti-ad orientam Masses which were the hallmark of the former Birmingham bishop, David Foley. The new Bishop has a reputation for being very much in favor of the TLM and Catholic tradition.
It seems the older group of Bishops are for the most part anti-TLM and anti-Motu Proprio, while the younger group of Bishops are instead very favorable to it, as are the younger priests.
As for the Pope celebrating the TLM at St. Peter's Basilica, I think it most defintly WILL happen, but only after Sept. 14th. Look for people like Archbishop Marini, Cardinal Arinze, Re, and afew others to turn in their resignations or be re-assigned when it does.
Well, this is one way to get around the chilly reception of Summorum Pontificum in a number of places. There's not much one can do to keep people from turning on their televisions, or from watching the Mass on the internet.
Rome wasn't built [or rebuilt] in a day. We should pray that the priests and layfolk return to tradition, and that the men of tradition retake the apostolic throne, sacred college and episcopate.
Mother Angelica was always said to have a fondness for the TLM. It would suprise very much if they have commentary during it. They will probably present it like they present their daily masses.
Excellent news, I'll definitely be watching.
Instead of commentary, maybe they can have the propers/prayers subtitled during Mass as a kind of TV missal. =^)
I think Raymond Arroyo talks too much during televised Papal and other events. He's a good reporter and anchorman, but He and his co-anchors for events don't know when to be silent.
Has anyone else ever noticed (I did 1-2x) that some of the commentators from Vatican TV/Radio when a papal piece is broadcast by EWTN sometimes they launch into a not-to-subtle pro-Vatican II diatribe. I caught one priest and nun co-anchors doing such during a papal Mass, when the priest said in reference to papal vestments " Some people would like this back again in the Church, but as Vatican II stated..blah, blah ,blah."
And the nun piped in agreeing. That's more annoying than any chatting by EWTN co-anchors, or Archbishop Foley.
Subtitles?
I agree about no commentators but maybe subtitles wouldn't be a bad thing.
Friends,
I think we misplace our hopes thinking/ hoping that there might little commentary at this mass. Realize that that this will be an educational tool for an entire generation who missed out on the Extraordinary Rite. That same generation also is very used to super short attention span TV viewing and entrainment. In the world of broadcast media, long stretches of silence equals thumbs on the remote changing the channel.
"Instead of commentary, maybe they can have the propers/prayers subtitled during Mass as a kind of TV missal"
Excellent idea!
(Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
any ideas on who will do the music?
Don Roy - while I don't know the answer to your question for sure, what I do know is that the nuns there are perfectly capable of singing the gregorian chants of the propers and the ordinary, as well as motets for Communion in chant or polyphony. Who better to sing than the hostesses themselves? In any case this is certainly an event to give thanks for and to look forward to.
Being a Orthodox Christian why do current roman catholic masses face the people at all. This seems like a new idea to us. Thanks
If any of you guys are interested in chant here is some of ours on http://www.nikolaresanovic.com/A...hant-
index.html I like to hear the gregorian chants when I am not in the mood to listen to ours God Bless
EJ
while I havent been particularly impressed with the music comming out of Mother Angelicas studio Im sure your right...the nuns can probably do a great job. I was just thinking hor great it would be if Jeffries schola could somehow be involved.
Al in all, though, This is spectacular news and God bless Mother Angelica.
Oh, all you EWTN naysayers, take an aspirin or something harder. You obviously don't watch the network. Mass is on everyday and no one talks over it so stop creating controversy where it does not exist. Papal Mass from Rome is the feed of CTV and not EWTN so enough already.
And as for the rest of you EWTN critics, think for a moment how much their presentation of the Mass and devotions has done to help with the "restoration".
God bless Mother Angelica and all the lay leaders of EWTN!
'nuff said?
...and more;
Instead of what you "heard" about EWTN and Mother Angelica why don't you "watch" it and "read" Raymond Arroyo's biography on Mother.
Given the prohibition to ad orientem Masses in their diocese all I can say is that was quick.
There is no prohibition on ad orientem in the diocese -- that would be unlawful -- my understanding is that the prohibition was only on televised Masses. I have heard that there is a priest or two in the diocese who celebrates ad orientem on occasion, just not on television.
David Anthony: Raymond Arroyo et al. have been known on occasion to do their own commentary over whatever Vatican feed or otherwise they are airing. During the papal funeral, as the casket was being processed in and the Requiem (or something) being sung, Raymond Arroyo and Fr. Neuhaus were busy commenting on the style of the altar frontal. Tacky. There are other examples.
In any case, I doubt very much that there would be commentary provided over the Mass on September 14. It is taking the place of the daily Mass broadcast, and the daily Mass is provided by them as a service particularly for those who are homebound or cannot otherwise attend Mass -- it is meant to give such folks some way in which they can unite themselves to the Eucharistic sacrifice on a daily basis even when they cannot get to church -- thus commentary would be inappropriate and I think they know that.
The Shrine in Hanceville has a truly stunning collection of vestments and sacred vessels. It will be interesting to see what they use for this occasion.
David
put away the boxing gloves already! From what Ive read on this combox there is universal praise for what Mother Angelica has chosen to do. It is perfectly withen the relm of this dialogue for people to offer respectful criticism. We all wish to improve dont we?
Can we expect some bishops to release statements saying that you can only watch the mass on tv if there is no less than 50 people present in the room and that they should all have a familiarity with the Latin language.Also you can only watch it once.
Father McAfee,
You have a great sense of humor. These folks railing against the Extraordinary Rite readily bring to mind the old saying: there is no one more illiberal than a liberal. I'll go one further with these "bishops" and "priests". Although they are Catholic in the technical sense, they are very "Un-Catholic" in their very narrow and stunted (puerile) view of what is Catholic. I pray for them. Tom
Don Roy,
I suspect the schola from the FSSP seminary will sing.
TJM,
Why the scare quotes around priests and bishops? Do you realize what that implies?
As a former resident of the Birmingham diocese and a former employee of the EWTN chapel, I can assure you that Bishop Foley's prohibition of ad orientem Masses was intended for ALL celebrations of the Mass in the modern rite. Rome several years later overturned Foley's decree, saying he didn't have the authority to issue it, forbidding what the universal law of the church allows.
The USCCB issued norms for televised Masses shortly afterward. Televised ad orientem Masses are discouraged. This, however, is only a guideline, not a law. It's worth noting that after Bishop Foley issued his directive, one older priest who then had the indult to celebrate according to the old rite continued to celebrate the new "with his back to the people" (as Bishop Foley translated the phrase) as well. No one seemed to be bothered by this, since the Mass there wasn't televised! This happens to have been the same priest who had a communion rail put in after his predecessor had the old one removed. I believe it was used for the novus ordo Masses as well.
It's also correct that EWTN is full of charismatics. The mindset there tends to be much more along the lines of Steubenville rather than the FSSP. Other changes in the liturgy under Bishop Foley included prohibition of using a separate lectern for the gospel than the one used for the other readings and a requirement that all of the Eucharistic Prayer from after the preface to the minor elevation be in the same language. Somewhat inconsistent with this, the Sanctus in Latin is permitted, but the memorial acclamation must be in the vernacular if the EP is.
I'm glad they're bringing Fraternity priests down for the Mass. I'm not sure how a do-it-yourself attempt would turn out, since most of the priests and severs have known nothing but the new rite.
Fr. Goodwin use to be our priest in Portland, Maine. He is here visiting and told us that he will be giving the sermon! Be sure to tune in! :)
Our schola sang in a Tridentine Mass with FSSP priests down in Corpus Christi Texas. They really had their act together.
Fr. Goodwin is awesome!
I'm not so put off by the possibility of commentators. I think that this will for many be their first exposure to the TLM. As such, it is important that they know what is happening. It would be terrible for people to be turned off merely because of a bad initial reaction caused by a lack of understanding that can be remedied with nothing more than (tasteful) commentary.
The opera-prompter idea is a great one.
I think the main problem with commentators is talking while something we want to hear is going on. They're fine if they wait to comment until an opportune moment. And there's the idea that we TV viewers would like to have something of a similar experience to those who are there in person, and the silence (and lack of commentary) is part of that. Best would be to have some introductory commentary, then "And now, the Holy Mass..." and then no commentary until Mass has ended. Perhaps a few words during Communion, but only if necessary and appropriate.
If this is still a live thread, could someone tell me if the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament is the big church with the white and gold all over that they use for benediction, or the little church that is mainly wooden that they use for daily mass?
The Big one
I chanced upon a highly odd example of authorial self-indulgence on this topic, while I was using the amazon.com "Inside this Book" feature to browse definitions of Latin phrases in the book _Consecrated Phrases_, by Jesuit James Bretzke. Modern moral theologian and in this book Latin dictionary writer, Fr. Bretzke, defines "ad orientem" as "Expression used primarily in a recent liturgical dispute . . .." [How weird is that definition, just for starters?]
He wrote, "Certain 'traditionalists' allied with Mother Angelica's Eternal Word Television Network, based in the diocese of Birmingham, Alabama, claimed that the only 'true' tradition in the Church was for both the presider and the people alike to face toward the east in celebrating the Eucharist."
The way Father Bretzke spins it in his "definition," Bishop Foley won a judgement against the EWTN "traditionalists." from the Congregation for Divine WOrship. The Congregation "rejected the traditionalists' claims . . . The Congregatipn's Prefect, Cardinal Jorge Medina Estevez wrote that it is 'incorrect and indeed quite unacceptable' that anyone should claim that to celebrate toward the apse is the more orthodox choice for the presider."
Fr. Bretzke ommitted the fact that the Congregation also said that it was incorrect to prohibit the use of the ad orientem posture or for anyone to claim that ad populum was the more orthodox choice.
And he also neglected to mention that EWTN was not trying to prohibit the Mass being said "ad populum," but only trying to celebrate in the "ad orientem" posture, which was never disallowed.
Bishop Foley responded to the Congregation's decision by withdrawing his blanket prohibition, which was clearly illegal. But he then took an action that was apparently within his rights as a bishop, to prohibit the televising of Masses during which the priest took the ad orientem position.
The way Arroyo's bio of Mother Angelica tells the story, the EWTN friars started using Latin because Mother Angelica was alarmed at the inclusive language that was being inserted into the English translations of the Mass. She set her nuns to studying the Vatican II documents and found that Latin and saying the Mass ad orientem had never been forbidden. So she changed the way the Masses were being said.
Arroyo's story gave me the impression that Bishop Foley lost face -- he had forbidden ad orientem Masses completely, but he had to withdraw that prohibition after the Vatican firmly made it clear that he was not allowed to do that. So he did what was in his power, with a Vatican representative's permission (if not approval) prohibited the ad orientem Masses on TV.
After the prohibition (or as some say is more true to the case, discouragement) of televised ad orientem Masses, beautiful reverent ad orientem Novus Ordo Masses in Latin continued to be said routinely at the Shrine of the Blessed Sacrament. I've been there for a few.
While
I go to the masses at the chapel and shrine from time to time and I am very much looking forward to this celbration. I hope the move the daily mass to Hanceville with regular celebration of the classic liturgy. My wife and I are also members of a Third Order Franciscan group associated with EWTN (most of the members are employees). I have found them to be solid and well formed in the faith. Many of them have pined for ad orientum posture, chaplets, full genoflection and other classic elements in the liturgy. There may be some charismatic Catholics but I haven't met them. Even if there were isn't that acceptable?
Charismatic means "filled with the Holy Spirit." Which we al should be.
Mother Angelica, according to the Arroyo bio again, was into the charismatic Catholic movement until she saw that certain excesses were being practiced.
I had the same experience.
Good to know about the 3rd order Franciscans. Mother Angelica chose to found her order of friars of Missionary Franciscans of the Eternal Word separately from the world wide order of Franciscans. To put it mildly, the main branch is pretty liberal. I bet the associated with EWTN 3rd order group is good, solid, well-grounded.
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