Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
I am happy for the diocese of Norwich. I live in a much larger diocese in the southeastern corner of Pennsylvania. When I made requests that one of the 15 masses in the 3 churches within several blocks of me be said in the old rite or at least ad orientem and with chant in english i was told the following things:
"Are you really in the boundaries of this parish?"
"The majority of people are happy with mass the way it is"
"Do you have a persecution complex?"
"Jesus doesn't care what language we use or what way we worship"
"You sound like a spoiled child who can't get his own way"
"I don't know how to say it"
Summorum Pontificum is a mousetrap for people with 'aspirations' to worship according to the old rite. Once you get caught in it there is nowhere else for you to go.
I wonder if, in a little way, the hustings for the next Archbishop of Westminster have opened?
Andrew,
What are you implying? The worthy cleric being written about here is american, and not likely to be considered for Westminster. The catholic bishop in Norwich, Norfolk, is called "The Bishop of East Anglia."
This is NOT a good letter. it still says that a priest has to ask before he can say the Old Rite. That is not the case. It sould therefore be ignored.
[NLM: Establishing a diocesan office for the EF with an EF-friendly and practicing cleric at its helm to help provide help and guidance is not quite the same thing as requiring permission a la the old indult. That is not a bad thing in and of itself; it would only be a bad thing if it were abused and made into an inhibiting force. But given who is at the head of it, Fr. Fluet, there is much hope and promise indeed. I see this as a resource for people who may not have the EF at their parish, or for priests who, as it says, may have questions.]
Dear Fred,
Thanks for your comment. I trust there is no 'hidden meaning' in what I said. It has not even entered my head that the 'worthy cleric' here is in any way looking for the red hat of Westminster.
I am sure that the Bishop in question well deserves his title 'Bishop of East Anglia'.
Further to that, I do not see what more I can say to illuminate.
Father Fluet has done a great job out in Moodus. We attended his Sunday traditional (low) Mass for many years. Indeed, Father Fluet restored the original parish church from the 1860's in part to be able to celebrate this mass (it would be very difficult in the restored parish church). But his bishop's permission is not that generous at all - that old church or rather chapel hardly accomodates more than 50 people. that's not much for even a small diocese.
I wonder if he drinks port...
"Summorum Pontificum is a mousetrap for people with 'aspirations' to worship according to the old rite. Once you get caught in it there is nowhere else for you to go."
This is a rather strange statement to say the least; it is also not true.
Someone had criticized the Bishop's sense of the Eastern and Western rites; feel free to raise the point, but without the polemic directed toward the bishop in question. For my own part, I am simply glad to hear a bishop aware and recognizing the multiplicity of rites, even within the Western liturgical tradition.
Fr. Fluet is the perfect choice for this ministry. As a friend and fellow traveler in the traditionalist ranks for almost 20 years, I can attest to his love for the ancient worship of the church. Fr. Fluet's staunch defense of the ancient rites has a pastoral dimension not exhibited by many. He wants his people to understand the need for this rite at this time in history and the blessings it will bring to the church. His views are much like those of the Holy Father. This foundation of Western culture will have a "gravitational pull" not only on the new rite, but on other practices in the church. Congratulations, Fr. Fluet, your work and devotion will now be seen on a broader scale.
Is Fr. Fluet also going to be made responsible for the training of priests who want to learn the Old Rite? Is he to report to the bishop, problems or concerns that he is not in a position to handle?
How far does his authority go? Just asking. It seems a lot for one person to be made responsible for. Will he have any help?
bjr
Thank you for your generous comments, which I hope I am deserving of. As a follow up to Mr. Chessman, (and I miss you and your good family now that you have relocated!!) I have, in fact, restored the new Church (which was built in 1958.) The Blessed Sacrament is now in the center of the Sanctuary, where it was, and the marble Altar is now fully accessible for ad orientem celebration. I actually did so for the first time in the "new" church in May when I celebrated a Solemn High Mass in the rite of 1962 for my 25th anniversary of priestly ordination. The Saint Gregory sang and well over 350 attended. As of December 9 the Sunday Mass (12 noon) will be celebrated in the new Church, at least for the winter. (Holydays are at 10 AM) I know the frustration here, but remember it took forty years to get to Summorum Pontificum. Now a little more patience and prayer are called for, and a willingness to let the Grace of God work, which is clearly happening. God bless you all.
And, allow me one more comment: Bishop Cote has been very supportive in this, very. Before this letter I was already helping seminarians learn the Mass and Rites of 1962. And as for authority, the only authority in this whole matter is Summorum Pontificum and the Holy Father to whom we need to obey.
The one question that I had when I read the statement,and perhaps Fr. Fluet can answer this, is what was meant by this statement:
"It will implement the guidelines to be offered by the Bishops' Liturgy Committee."
We want to avoid guidelines that would in any way restrict the MP itself -- the sort of thing Ranjith has criticized. Does Fr. Fluet or anyone else have any insight into what this refers to?
Shawn, it is necessary for me to add another comment that was made to me after i requested the old rite last July, in writing and accompanied by a petition with 30 names:
"We do not have a stable community here"
In other words, even the 30 people who signed my stupid petition did not count as a 'stable community' even though most of them are daily communicants at the parish in question. It is for this reason that i referred to Summorum Pontificum as a 'mousetrap'... If you carry more weight than the mouse writing this message then please contact some priest you may know who lives in southeastern pennsylvania and tell him to come to one of these parishes, or some suitable location to celebrate mass in the old rite for us. There is nothing else i can do. EcclesiaDei did not respond to me. My comment was based on my own experience, which is very true for me.
Notimpressed, did you refer the matter to the Ordinary (whom I assume is Card. Rigali since Philadelphia is the only diocese in southeastern Pennsylvania -- unless one counts Allentown which is small).
yes, dcs, i did write a letter to the ordinary in which i requested that he appoint a priest to come to the parish in question (this parish was once the cathedral church of the diocese in the time of bishop Neumann) and say the mass in the old rite. This request was not even addressed in the response which came in a letter the cardinal's office sent in september. The letter made no promises about anything. It simply said that the 'Council of Priests' would decide how to deal with the implementation of the motu proprio. It is my understanding that if a priest of a parish where a group of people requests the old mass ignores the request then the bishop must find a priest to say it there. THAT was my reason for writing to the Cardinal. When this request was not even acknowledged in the response nor any promise of the old rite being made available at the cathedral church (which i also requested since most of the petitioners also attend mass there) then i wrote to EcclesiaDei. I expected something to happen. But nothing happened.
None of that makes Summorum Pontificum the problem of course. But there will be places where things will take time.
Laws have changed, but hearts and minds can take time.
So what will happen to us in the meantime, until that magical moment when hearts and minds change? That moment may never come and that was the purpose of Summorum Pontificum in the first place...to provide for people when clergy refuse to acknowledge their needs. Where is the priest going to come from to celebrate mass in the old rite for us?
notimpressed,
Forget about going through your diocese now.
What I did was take things into my own hands since we don't need diocesan permission but only a willing priest or a priest who will allow another to celebrate the TLM in their parish.
Here's what I recommend:
1)Call the nearest FSSP or ICKSP and ask if they would be willing to come to your diocese/area if there are not any priests capable/willing to celebrate the TLM for a group of the faithful who are requesting it.
2) Call as many priests, personally, as you can in your diocese and ask them if they are able to celebrate the TLM already and if not are they open to allowing a priest and faithful use his parish for a traditional Latin Mass when there is a time available. (At least if you find out there are no qualified or willing priests it can then be justified to look outside of the diocese.)
3) If a priest is found within the diocese then there is no need to discuss it any futher with anyone in the liturgy office or whatever. Just get to it amongst yourselves.
4) If a FSSP or ICKSP priest is willing to come in to the diocese,since there is no one else, then the bishop usually needs to give him permission to regularly celebrate Mass publicly in the diocese. (Not sure whether this is canonical necessity or simply cordial.)
4b)Find priest willing to open their parish to the TLM priest and faithful requesting the TLM.
5) If all goes well and a FSSP or ICKSP priest is available and a there is a parish or chapel available then, and only then call the diocese (don't leave messages and wait around for a week..keep calling..you know the saying..."the squeeky wheel gets the grease".)
This is what gets results in a diocese. In my diocese, where there is opposition to traditional Catholicism, we would simply end up sitting in our tears for a long, long, time if we didn't take action to obtain what is our rightful inheritance.
And I forgot to mention one thing. Always try to be respectful and kind while remaining firm in your position and rights as a faithful Catholic. (It's difficult sometimes, I know.)
Memorize this line, "I know that the chancery/liturgy offices are very busy so I'm simply trying to be helpful in setting things up and making the phone calls."
thank you Deborah, the last parish i attended before this was of the fssp. When i came to this parish people i knew said that i should just go to it even though they didn't have the old rite mass anymore because it would somehow prove that i was a "mainstream" catholic. i felt sort of hurt by that remark, but when i was younger i wanted to please people. so for over ten years i have attended daily mass in a place where i have an unpeaceful feeling. "You should be grateful to have access to the daily mass" people tell me. But what if the daily mass makes you feel protestant every day for ten years?
For anyone who is interested, we have created an "unofficial" website for the Ecclesia Dei Ministry of the Diocese of Norwich. Among other things, Fr. Fluet's background, the background of the Ministry (formerly know as the Latin Mass Apostolate of the Diocese of Norwich), photos, Mass schedules, maps and directions are all included. We will be adding to it as time goes on. The URL is www.mooduslatinmass.org.
Atty. Tom Johnson
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