Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
Any word on if Bishop Baker is going to lift the proscription against ad apsidum celebrations?
I'll bet the old Bishop Foley is reacting to all this, especially the Pope celebrating ad orientam yesterday in the same manner as Piero Marini and all the liberals are.
I've investigated other websites, and apparently all the Vatican II liberals (bishops, priests, "sisters", and liturgical experts) are working themselves up into complete meltdowns!!! LOL
Kenjiro,
You could not be further off-base with regard to Bishop Foley. You would do better to leave some of your thoughts unpublished.
This is a good example of the value of patience, as against the futility of getting worked up about things because they they won't change when and how we want.
Kenjiro, Bishop Foley has celebrated the TLM recently. I think he's seen the light. Tom
Glad to see another of the local faithful reads this blog! More (and better, in my opinion) photos can be seen at http://www.unavocenorthernalabam...a.blogspot.com/
Ole Doc Farmer: Bishop Baker doesn't have to lift any proscription; Rome has already judged that Bishop Foley didn't have the authority to issue it in the first place. After all, the rubrics of the new Missal assume the priest is facing the altar and always specify when he is to face the people.
Kenjiro: I don't think it's accurate to categorize Bishop Foley as a liberal. Yes, he approved female altar servers for this diocese, and he issued that now-infamous decree supposedly forbidding ad orientem celebration of the ordinary form of the Mass, but these weren't typical for him. The latter was more of a power struggle with EWTN than anything else. He got his way, but they eventually got theirs too! They continue to have their televised Masses celebrated versus populum out of respect for the preferences of Bp. Foley and the USCCB, not because they are in any way bound to do so.
Incidentally, at the time that Bp. Foley allegedly forbade ad orientem Masses, an elderly (now dead) priest of this diocese continued to celebrate all his Masses ad orientem without interference from the bishop, his MC, the judicial vicar, or any diocesan official. This same good pastor had a Communion rail built for his church to replace the one that had been removed by one of his predecessors. He did more than anyone else to save the sanctuary of the church seen in this blog post from destruction.
I hope that such progress may soon be seen the Archdiocese of Mobile.
Really? Then I was wrong. All I remember is the huge issues He was having with EWTN, and his own clergy even about celebrating Mass in the NO "ad orientam". That's what lead to the feud between him and EWTN....or was part of it.
Thanks for the correction.
Kenjiro, you are half right. After Rome corrected him, he modified his order to all televised Masses, which I believe you referred to. This is why the Daily Mass broadcast from Irondale is versus populum, and the Mass from Hanceville forbidden.
All of this good news (elderly pastor's work, the new TLM's etc. and even Bishop Foley's offering the usus antiquior) is no doubt due, at least in part, to good Mother Angelica.
So now that Foley's out, when will we see televised ad orientem Novus Ordo Masses from EWTN?
Veritas...your name is well-chosen. The issue was always the televised Masses, and Foley won on that one. I've always thought his heart was in the right place (he was auxiliary here in the bereft Diocese of Richmond and tried...in vain...to correct things). But he was almost certainly under a great deal of external pressure to stifle ad orientem Masses on EWTN. And he won on that point.
So the point remains...will Bishop Baker permit ad orientem televised Masses. I'm thinking he will.
I agree with the first anonymous.
One should always view a bishop in charity, as we would hope any bishop would view any soul. I seem to recall the words of the Saviour Himself: "Do unto others..."
Bishop Foley was and is a good man and was a supporter AND defender of EWTN, before and after the ad orientem situation. That whole debate of circa 98-99 was little when one considers how Foley really watched Mother Angelica and the EWTN's backside during darker battles.
Foley was a good Bishop other than the whole Ad Orientem fiasco. I am in hopes that Bishop Baker will allow the AO NO again :)
The disorientation of the celebrant was only the most easily-noticeable change mandated by the bishop. Viewers of EWTN in the late 90s will recall the use of two lecterns (one for the Gospel and one for the other readings), genuflexion by anyone who passed the tabernacle at any time during Mass, the exclusive use of the Roman Canon (EP I) in English, but with the Memorial Acclamation in Latin, and the purification of the sacred vessels at the center of the altar.
EWTN has the relevant documents on their website: http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISH...PS/
TVMASBHM.HTM and http://www.ewtn.com/library/Medi...dia/
TVNORMS.HTM
It's worth noting that Bishop Foley didn't always follow his own norms! For example, on several occasions I've heard him conclude the Prayer of the Faithful with the Hail Mary. I know these are minor matters, but it seems like one should be consistent after making such a fuss about what's broadcast on television.
Is this father Lee FSSP on the picture? By the way, nice church, one of the rare modern ones I like.
That does appear to be Fr. Lee in the photograph, one of the assistant priests at my own parish, St. Clement's in Ottawa, Ontario.
love the liturgie style sanctuary
Kenjiro Shoda. Regardless of what you think about bishops, nuns or priests,they are still in Holy Orders and deserve our respect. Why don't you just remember them in your prayers.
Why oh why would any permission at all be required from the Bishop a la televising ad orientem Masses - unless one has a crazed sense of 'obedience' in relation to an issue that simply does NOT require it?! The only thing I can think of is that Bishop Foley must have been a member of the EWTN board and that he had some sway in the say by virtue of that fact...but that is a merely a question of political muscle and has nothing to do with ecclesial reality; after all, the GIRM assumes that the Mass IS celebrated ad orientem!
I agree with Grandma. Maybe some work with the St Vincent de Paul Society may deepen our charity, and our love of the Sacred Liturgy.
Patrick Williams:
Thanks for the links. These norms ought to be repealed ASAP. Part of them is ultra vires anyway and therefore null. E.g. "If the tabernacle is located in the sanctuary, the priest and ministers are to reverence the reposed sacrament with a genuflection at the beginning and the end of Mass and when they approach it to remove or reserve the reserved sacrament at communion. No other reverence of the reserved blessed sacrament is called for in the course of the Mass." No. 233 of the old GIRM, which is cited, expressly says "If there is a tabernacle with the blessed sacrament in the sanctuary, a genuflection is made before and after Mass and whenever anyone passes in front of the blessed sacrament."
There is no basis for mandating that the Roman Canon (EP1) cannot be used in all Masses.
The purification of paten and chalice is indeed foreseen at the side or the credence. However, I am quite happy to report that in Germany this is generally disregarded and the purification takes place at the centre of the altar in most parishes I know.
Loved the crosskeys diapered on the wall surfaces.
People, charity doesnt mean refraining from criticism and, by the way, we need to show some to each other. I too had a negative view of Bishop Foley based on that one ad orientem issue (Im not from Alkabama so why shouyld I know more?) Thanks for the corrections but could they be done in a manner that doesnt attack one of our own?
Kinjiro............I always appreciate your input
Greg
My parents were married in Blessed Sacrament back in 1974, shortly after the most hideous of the liturgical wreckovations had occurred. In their wedding photo, one can see the newly cut carpet that was just put in the sanctuary and the original gaudy table altar, with the glorious high altar hidden behind it. How wonderful that this glorious church, one of Alabama's oldest (built 1910), has finally seen the Mass for which it was built.
Just an FYI. I noticed a comment by another "Veritas" on this post. It is a fine post, but not mine, so I don't want to take any credit for it. Perhaps the other Veritas could modify his name so I am not wrongly given credit for his insight. :)
/s/ Veritas (the other one)
I was at this Mass. Yes, that was Fr. Lee of the FSSP. This Mass took place about a week before the "Rorate" Mass that was on EWTN. Fr. Lee was in town early, and Una Voce got him to offer a Low Mass for us on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. It is a beautiful Church, that is not at all modern, and has two beautiful side altars. Archbishop Fulton Sheen once offered a High Mass here, I believe back in the fifties. Here are some better pictures of the Church and the TLM:
http://unavocenorthernalabama.bl...a.blogspot.com/
God Bless!
I also just noticed there is a great video on the website of the second Mass Una Voce had in Birmingham. There have been four TLM's said in Birmingham. The first had about 15 in attendance, the second - about 30, the third - about 60, and the last one was reported to have close to 100. Deo Gratias!
the other photos suggest that the baldachino is liturgie into egyptian to really experience this style visit the chamber of horrors that is the crypt of Monte Cassino its not exactly devotional
Fr Symondson, if you are reading:
You have referred to "diapering" in reference to decoration both of fabric and now painted walls in a few of your comments recently. What does it mean?
I miss my Bishop. Alabama is lucky. Sigh...
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