THis bishop is a wonderful man. Very traditionalist and orthodox. A good pick to replace Cardinals Maida or Egan now, or Rigali or Mahoney in 2-3 years.
Also, I have not seen a Bishop wear the mantelleta and rochette as bishop's vesture since the close of Vatican II. This is a great development.....because Paul VI actually abolished it.
It's fantastic to see young Bishops discarding the misguided restrictions/abolishment of liturgical dress issued by a Pope who seemed intent on tearing down the entire tradition and culture of the Church during those first 5 years after Vatican II.
Here we go again bashing Pope Paul. Will you knock it off already? We are all well acquainted with your opinions by now.
I noted some Greek or Russian Fathers present in the 2nd photo...how wonderful!
The Vestments are also very rich; hard to believe that this was the "norm" back when I was ordained, 50 years ago.
Pax Christi
The bishop, however nice he looks, and I do like traditional dress of auxiliary bishops or territorial bishops outside their jurisdiction, is acting disobediently. IT was supressed, continues to be supressed, and therefore should not wear it. Shoda, if we pick and chose what we are obedient to, then we have adopted Protestantism, pure and simple. That, along with the attack on Paul VI is neither Christian nor charitable.
Encouraging disobedience is Protestantism, and in fact, morally sinful.
Sorry, that should read "choose"
Fr Hugh Barrett-Lennard was a lovely priest and a very good and kind confessor. Requiescat in Pace.
What was his connection to San Diego?
J. Basil
Maybe you should contact the good bishop or better arrange a meeting with him and tell him to his face that he's a Protestant and that he's disobedient. Jeez...there are worse things and you're quibbling about what the poor guy is wearing...amazing.
regards,
Father G.
A couple of clarifications, Bishop Cordileone is not a "traditionalist" per se, he simply has no axe to grind against "...all that the tradition of the Church allows." He is willing and able to serve either the Novus Ordo in English, Spanish or Latin, or the Extraordinary form, and in a variety of different ways, including N.O. ad Orientem. He is indeed a great man, and a unique talent in the church. We in Chorus Breviarii are blessed to work with him.
In answer to the question about Fr. Hugh's connection to Chorus Breviarii, five of our members are fratellini of the London Oratory, which is to say, seculars of the Little Oratory, having been to London and become formally associated. I myself lived there for ten years in the '90's, and learned liturgy and chant through working with the LMS of England and Wales, and later through serving at the Oratory. Ashley Paver who served as Ceremonieri 1 in the pontifical "recruited" me into the Brothers, and I came to know Fr. Hugh through him.
When I returned to San Diego, my home, in the '90's, and Chorus Breviarii began to develop at the request of local Catholic men interested in learning Gregorian Chant, the Oratorian and Philippian influence was immediately felt in the group, and St. Philip was taken as our Spiritual Patron. As one can see, it remains very strong indeed, and it was as a gesture of love and respect for the London Fathers that we sought to solemnly commemorate Fr. Hugh at such a great distance.
But distance is no barrier to affection and attachment. We are both grateful to, and inspired by the example of the London Oratory, and are blessed to be attached to it.
Lastly, the eastern fathers present in choir are of the Holy Resurrection Byzantine Monastery near Barstow. One of our members has been on retreat with them, and informing them of this solemn celebration, they graciously distinguished us by their presence in choir. I personally hope to visit them in the new year. After the process of putting this event together, I can use some seclusion. But it was a grand spiritual exercize, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Michael,
The connection is that there are five brothers of the London Oratory in San Diego.
Bishop Salvatore! Archmandrite Nicholas! Fr. Maximos! An all-star lineup!
Wish I were there
Sigh
Regarding the comment about the Bishop being disobedient for wearing the Mantelleta as it was surpressed by Paul VI. Would that still apply as the Bishop is celebrating according to the custom of the 1962 Missal? The Institute of Christ the King wear buckled shoes for the EF and those were also supressed by the same Pope. Just a thought?
Exactly, I think that everything that was suppressed has no merit during an EF celebration.
I wish I was there, to bad I was busy otherwise I would have gone.
Michael wrote of Kenjiro:
Here we go again bashing Pope Paul. Will you knock it off already? We are all well acquainted with your opinions by now.
Here, here Michael and Basil, from the computer of another Michael.
For me, a bishop wearing a mantalletta instead of the post-1968 Episcopal choir dress is not the issue. The issue is the mentality that these reforms can be rejected unilaterally for the celebration of the Usus Antiquior. These reforms (and other reforms, such as the abolitions of buckled shoes, lace surplices being worn over the top of lace rochets, purple-tufted birettas, etc. etc.) apply to the Ordinary and Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite. The Institute of the Christ the Sovereign Priest seems to reject this view.
I doubt Rome cares too much about these matters (yes, there are more important things to worry about). But should this Re-Creationist approach to the Old Liturgy really be what we are about? To speak openly, some of it is a bit silly, like children having broken into a hitherto forbidden lolly shop and gorging themselves.
Michael
http://saintbedestudio.blogspot.com
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The mantelleta hasn't been completely abolished - it is still prescribed for the Protonotaries Apostolic de numero and the canons of the Papal basilicas, I think.
Also, I believe many canonries in the old world retain it as a legitimate local custom.
Can we please keep the comments on topic and refrain from criticizing other people who share on this combox. The attacks on Kenjiro lately have been mean spirited, personal, and entirely inappropriate. He has just as much right to his opinions as any one else.
Disobedience is obviously not to be encouraged. However, it seems to me a legitimate question whether the episcopal choir dress from before the Pauline reforms may/should be used in celebrations of the old liturgical books, which presume such dress.
On the one hand, if a form of the Mass that was almost suppressed can be revived, why not an older form of choir dress? On the other hand, St. Bede studio is right to point out that the goal of the Extraordinary Form is not to put us in a time warp where everything goes back to 1962 and never changes. It seems reasonable that bishops' choir dress should be eventually be relatively uniform. This, I think, is a matter for the Ecclesia Dei commission.
If I may point out that Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of Saint Pius X adopted and continue to observe those reforms to prelatical dress introduced by Pope Paul. It is only through the Institute of Christ the Sovereign Priest and others post-Summorum Pontificum that the adoption of the pre-1968 forms have been observed.
I myself LOVE the mantaletta and have always been very regretful that it was restricted to a very few. It is a beautiful garment. However, Michael J Houser, I think that a dubium to the Ecclesia Dei Commission on these matters would not give great comfort to those who believe the pre-1968 usages are reinstated.
So, would the 'Dies irae', which was suppressed, get some people's ire?
At this Mass, the 'Dies irae' was sung, of course, and most beautifully.
It is all too easy to sniff around for disobedience if one is inclined, but I can vouch that Bishop Cordileone does NOT have a pattern of disobedience whatsoever. He is loyal to Rome, a lover of tradition and presents great hope for those of us interested in liturgical renewal.
BTW, the lower photo shows Fr. Victor Szczurek, O. Praem, to the bishop's right. He is the translator for a book featured on this website, should be good.
Don -
I repect Kenjiro, and appreciate his enthusiasm for, and knowledge of church traditions. I do not, however, think it is appropriate to continually heap abuse on departed Popes on a Catholic forum. It is direspectful in the extreme, and completley oblivious to the many sacrifices that these Popes have made, and the heavy burden that the office carries, even in the best of times.
- Michael
Fr Finigan has a good and amusing post from a while back about the issue of buckled shoes. http://the-hermeneutic-of-contin...s-on-
trial.html
If I've got things right, the main point of this that the present Pope wears shoes which are forbidden by Paul VI PP's 1969 document, so there are at least questions about the current authority of this document. Of course the Pope has also been wearing a fur-lined mozzetta, which was also prohibited by the same document.
michael
fair enough, but i didnt really get much of that respect in your post to kenjiro. If youve read other comboxes, you'll see hes taken a quite a beating lately and its not right.
The "Dies Irae" has NOT been suppressed.
The first words I learned in my first canon law course was, "read the law, only the law, no less, no more, no other."
WHile I am not a canonist. It seems quite clear until the dubia are settled, that the MP addresses only the liturgy. It does not address the simplification of choir dress which was done in 1969. Don't get me wrong, LOVE the mantelletta, and don't much like the reforms of 1969, but obedience is obedience, plain and simple, whether you are a layman, bishop, priest, vestment designer. Right now, I don't see how a mantelletta affects the nature of the Old Mass, since it is only worn by someone "in choro", and unnecessary for the celebration of the Mass.
The choir dress of religious communities is quite different, since they regulate themselves and do not have the symbolism attached to a bishop's vesture (particularly as to jurisdiction, etc....). The Insitute of Christ the King has a very odd choir dress, but that is up to them.
I agree with my eminent colleague Michael!
And by the way, Kenjiro Shoda can hold any opinion he wants (and I agree with many of them), but the lack of charity in his opinions and how he expresses them somehow lacks Christian charity, a universal vocation for all of us.
While you are not a canonist, Bishop Cordileone holds a doctorate in Canon Law plus he worked at the Apostolic Signatura. Could it be that he knows it more than you do?
Absolutely. Not my point though, is it? The snide comment lacks charity. How sad. I quickly stated mine was only an observation with little or no qualifications save common sense and basic canon law. And NO ONE is infallible on every issue, my dear sir/madam regardless of position or erudition.
You accused others of lacking charity and a bishop of being disobedient.
For somebody with no qualifications you are pretty quick at jumping to conclusions.
Folks. I think you know what I'm going to say...
As a classmate and friend of Bishop Cordileone, after reading this entire dialogue, I promise to give Bishop Cordileone a phone call and ask about the manteletta and report back... It seems obvious to me, however, that Pope Benedict, by his gracious Motu Proprio, reversed many of the surpressions of Pope Paul VI when the 1962 Missal is utilized. Take note, for example, in all of the photos of the celebrations of the traditional Latin featured on this website, all priests are wearing the maniple... the maniple was surpressed by Pope Paul VI and, in many places, clergy were told to turn the old maniples into the chancery! Besides, the question of obedience may I dare sugggest is not so absolute as to include such small matters as shoe buckles!
After speaking to Bishop Cordileone, I can report tht he makes the following points:
1) the Pontifical Mass of the traditional rite requires the solemn vesting of the bishop before the altar as part of the pre-ceremonies of the liturgy, to which the bishop arrives at the church or chapel in proper choir dress...
2) the proper choir dress for an auxilary bishop (1962 rubrics) -- Bishop Cordileone's present status -- includes the manteletta rather than the mozetta, which was considered to indicate the jurisdiction of an ordinary.
Obviously, we do not have here an instance of disobedience to current rules of eccl. vesture. Rather, until and if, the Commission of Eccl. Dei makes comment on the question, we have perfect adherence to a principle of the Motu Propio of the Holy Father, tht the old and present rites are not to be mixed...
Most importantly, the Mass was a beautiful example of the liturgical restoration underway... with Gregorian chant that bespoke of the glory of God and the legacy of the Roman tradition.
The Mantelleta, except for the seven vatican proto notaries, has been entirely surpressed, even for canons. Many chapter keep there vesture under the wrong idea that they do not have to comform. Even in the colors black and grey they are suppressed. And even those using the 1962 liturgy in regard to the Mass, have to comply with the new regulations, which are entirely under the Secratery of State of VC
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