Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
Gorgeous and I love their choir stalls!
Unless I'm mistaken, it apears the tabernacle is located to the right of the apse, in about the same spot it is at San Clemente in Rome - Just right of the apse on the same wall when viewed from the nave, it appears to sit on a little pedastal, is veiled in the color of the day, with the tabernacle lamp hanging directly over it. The dove would appear to be merely decorative. Not a bad thing though - a little unorthodox from the post-Tridentine perspective, yet dignified when done respectfully.
They are a little peculiar I would say.
I admire their Order, which has about 450 sisters and about 50 monks, but I wish that the sisters branch, which models itself off of the Carthusian tradition (and thus the Carthusian nuns) would actually wear the habit of the Carthusian nun...or something similar (instead of wearing monks cowls!) That's odd enough.
Crawling on the floor to the Crucifix to venerate it on Good Friday is ok I suppose. After all, some of the more extreme forms of piety in the Church have been popular for centuries (walking on ones knees across the plaza to Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine in Mexico) ,and the same at Fatima.
But these nuns not having a choir stall in the sens of having a chair to sit on is odd. Extremely peculiar to see them all crouching on the floor etc.
I understand that some of their tradition is from the Orthodox/Byzantine style..and the choir stalls are in the tradition of the Greek Orthodox...but still better for them to have real choir stalls in the Latin traditon....like the choir stalls in the picture on the NLM webpage.
They attract a lot of vocations, and are traditional to be sure...but some of their adaptations are peculiar (not in a bad sense...as in the Neocatecumenical Way sect/cult) but just in the sense of the unexpected.
How deeply beautiful. I relished looking over these dignified, though austere photographs. I also noted the beautiful effect of shafts of light entering the building in one of the sets of photographs. The vestments used by the monks are quite plain, but very ample: almost like the Benedictine cowl in shape.
Looking at this church (not ancient I suspect), one gains an insight into the ancient form of our Churches. The chancel is greatly elevated; a small altar is covered with a civory of equally modest proportions (and materials). The throne of the Bishop or Abbot at the centre of the apse (but not prominent, because it it concealed by the altar) with benches for the presbyters around it.
To those who find this too plain a model for a Catholic church, note that the structure of the building allows for enrichment with wall decoration, drapes etc. The altar would also benefit from antependia.
Vis-a-vis the place of Eucharist Reservation, if it is on the Epistle side of the Chancel, then it is in an identical position to the famed Church of S. Clement in Rome.
Thank you for posting these for us Shawn. Michael.
Keep in mind as well that the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem is the last Bishop in the entire Latin Rite still authorized to wear the winter Cappa Magna, which he takes full advantage of. Apparantly the only reason it isn't prohibited for him is b/c of the sensitivity of changing anything in that conflict-ridden part of the world.
sorry, English is my second language..
yes the pics are great..the Sisters are not crawling, but walking, then prostrating, walking then prostrating, etc..like in the Eastern Church..they do have little fold down 'chairs',bits of wood, inside each choir stall..and they ,usually' have no front piece Latin type stalls, because , during Great lent and Fridays they make many prostrations/kneelings (Rule of the Master),in their places, as well as that little Carthusian, lying on your right elbow before the liturgy thingy..the name i forget.
actually as far as i understand and things i saw in Egypt,though the Sisters under the cowl dress like.well, Sisters, the keep the hooded cowl for 'solitude, and in the in Egypt/Palestine Cenbium that develpoed out of the desert, even thewomen wore hooded cowl-like clothing, only.and many had a difficult time distinguishing the desert fathers from mothers..i noticed on my visits with them, they never had cowl up around visitors..i think its good as well it distinguishes them FROM the Carthusian nuns, while still hav9ng the Paternity of St. Bruno..
regarding the dove tabernacle..i dont know about in Israel, but when i was at the Brothers Monastery in Italy, the dove was the only and actual tabernacle, as it is in many Melkite,for example, Churches.
----Pax..E-J
for more about the Community with images
http://ejvideo-place.blogspot.co...-
bethlehem.html
and a couple of photos of the Sisters new place still being built in Quebec, canada, during a big gathering
http://thumbsnap.com/v/RJEEm3r6.jpg
http://thumbsnap.com/v/eEBNZg1r.jpg
just a small comment about the "cowl".
the hooded outer garment is the carthusian scapular. it is worn over the tunic like other monastic habits. the carthusian scapular only differs in the pieces of cloth that connects the two halves of the scapular.
Kenjiro Shoda,
'creeping to the cross' is a very ancient liturgical tradition of the church, which has been discussed very recently on this website.
Similarly, the choir stalls are quite traditional. No stalls specifically have a 'kneeler,' and this is not a 'Latin'tradition. What exists in many places is simply the fact that the row of stalls in front acts as a kneeler. in fact, I see no difference between the choir stalls that the nuns have and those on the NLM website are identical in principle.
People need to start looking beyond the 1950's for what is authentic church tradition.
I visited the community of Sisters near Le Thoronet in France last year. Their newly built church was larger but almost exactly the same in design as the Israeli example. The sisters were very welcoming - allowing our group to celebrate Mass in a crypt chapel and providing refreshments for us afterwards.
I'm not being critical, just that I thought it perculiar to see nuns dressed rather like monks.
I understand them to be a very traditional, flourishing Order which borrows a great deal from the Greek Orthodox/Byzantine tradition. This is perfectly laudable. The Greek tradition is magnificent.
In style and, apparently, in structure (i.e. separate men's and women's communities that worship together?) they remind me a lot of the Monastic Fraternities of Jerusalem. Both communities seem to make excellent use of the flexibility of the Novus Ordo Missae to celebrate a liturgy that breathes with both lungs of the Church.
Dear F. C. Bauerschmidt,
"... structure (i.e. separate men's and women's communities that worship together?) they remind..",
actually they are totally seperate, and do not have worship/Liturgy together at all, unlike the 'Mon.Frat. of Jerusalem',
only in Israel, and in one place in France, beceause in those 2 places the Monks are very close by, do a couple 'Bethlehem' priests and a Brother assist, and Celebrate for the Nuns. Other than that, its a local diocesan Priest(s) or local hermit Priest that Celebrate/Assist for the Sisters
.
Pax
Emile-James,
Thanks for the info.
I must say that one thing I like about the "Mon.Frat of Jerusalem" is that the men and women worshiping together allows them to sing everything in four parts.
On the other hand, I can certainly understand monastics wanting to keep the spearation of the sexes in worship.
Yes, i agree, the Jerusalem Comunity sounsd very nice, i stayed with them in Paris and Vezelay..
you can watch them sing here>
http://kto.fr/video.php3?numero=2
or here>
http://kto.fr/offices.php3
Pax
Sorry to disagree with you, but I believe the dimensions of the altar are perfect. The long narrow altars which we were used to are the fruit of an age which also saw them attached to a reredos. The original smaller altars would have been disproportionate and asymetrical. But when altars were restored to their original free-standing state, and PARTICULARLY if a celebant is standing behind them, a cube is preferrable. Longer altars in that case resemble nothing so much as a desk between the CEO and his staff.
And I join you in enthusing over the hanging pyx from the centre of the ciborium above the altar. BEAUTIFUL. I just wish they`d vested the altar itself.
f. Martin Farrell,op
I have visited these sisters both in Livingston Manor, NY and Les Montsvoirons, France.
They are incredible!
Yes, when they are not in choir, they usually have their cowls down, like in these pictures: http://catholicmemories.blogspot...-
bethlehem.html
I love their beautiful blue veils, in honor of Our Lady! They are definitely distinct from the Carthusian Nuns, with a different charism and spirit, and much more Eastern.
They are a Religious Institute of Pontifical Rite, as of 1998. Here are a couple pages from an old pamphlet of their's.
http://img339.imageshack.us/
img3...msourcesbv7.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img1...999/
lifena7.jpg
I often get the feeling that many traditionalists in the West forget that Christianity came from the East, and forget all the Eastern traditions, in favor of only the Western ones. I'm not saying here, but just in general from those who love the Traditional Latin rite exclusively. The Church has many rites and traditions and originated in the East.
Most of the cloistered orders of nuns focus on the Western saints. But it is for the Monastic Family of Bethlehem to really live this spirit of the Eastern Fathers. I think they are such a wonderful gift to the Church. Their foundress, Sr. Marie, who was a Dominican cloistered nun, was truly inspired by God in this work. I think it's definitely the work of the Holy Spirit that they have both Western & Eastern traditions. They are truly unique and wonderful.
a Religious Institute of Pontifical Right*
I definitely love the Traditional Latin rite though, and all the Western traditions, like Gregorian chant, so I don't mean in any way to say anything against this at all - definitely not.
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