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The Holy Father is wearing amazingly amazing red vestments today.
AS |
03.21.08 | #
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Yes we associate red with Pentecost and the martyrs. It would seem that the red used for the Passion should be darker, more the color of blood rather than fire. Black ophreys on the red red would underline the point.
Michael |
03.21.08 | #
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Of course, in the EF, black is worn only for the first parts of the Good Friday solemn liturgy - since the reforms of Pius XII, the sacred ministers change into purple for the last part, the administration of Holy Communion.
Joshua |
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03.21.08 | #
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I would very much like to see black vestments used on days when you can. I think people of today, have no idea that black is a color that can be used during Mass. I also looked forward to funerals when I serve with a friend of mine who is a priest. He uses black vestments and it brings out the ritual of the funeral. Hopefully, in the years to come, we may see a change!
Matthaei |
03.21.08 | #
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Joshua,
Good point. My thinking of purple was in relation to requiems as a substitute for black.
Shawn |
03.21.08 | #
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Michael wrote:
"Yes we associate red with Pentecost and the martyrs. It would seem that the red used for the Passion should be darker, more the color of blood rather than fire. Black ophreys on the red would underline the point."
Exactly. A deep blood red with black orphreys is, I think, appropriate. It would serve well for both Palm Sunday and Good Friday. It could also be used for votives of the Passion or the Precious Blood and Holy Cross Day.
Fr. Scott Bailey, C.Ss.R. |
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03.21.08 | #
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But would black be an option for the Pope in the EF, according to the norms in force in pre-Vatican II times?
I tought that the pope's colour of mourning was red, and that in the "old days" the pope either wore white/gold (for festive occasions) or red (for mourning and penitential occasions), instead of following the colour scheme set for the rest of the Roman rite.
Prof. Basto |
03.21.08 | #
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Prof. Basto,
My argument doesn't relate to the papal liturgy, which has unique considerations and traditions all on its own.
I am thinking of general parish practice.
Shawn |
03.21.08 | #
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Yes, Shawn, I understood that.
But I was just searching for confirmation that red was the papal colour for Good Friday. I'm curious about the practice of the papal court in the old days.
Prof. Basto |
03.21.08 | #
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Prof. Basto,
So far as I know, red is the papal colour of mourning.
I believe as well that in formal papal ceremonial, the Pope would only ever wear red or gold/white vestments, but you would not see him in the other colours.
I am by no means an expert on the ceremonial of the papal liturgy, so perhaps someone else can confirm these details.
Shawn |
03.21.08 | #
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Practically, to seek an introduction of the use of black vestments for Good Friday, how might we proceed? Would a respectful request to the Congregation of Divine Worship signed by significant numbers be appropriate? What could be done?
Father Gregoire J Fluet |
03.21.08 | #
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Well, the Pope was not usually the Celebrant of the Holy Week Ceremonies, so...
latinmass1983 |
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03.21.08 | #
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LM1983,
I think Prof. Basto is wondering as well how my call for black would work in relation to the modern form, would apply to a papal liturgy in the modern form, given that red was the papal colour of mourning.
Shawn |
03.21.08 | #
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According to Mgr. Baggs (1854), on Good Friday (this most likely applies to the post 1956 Holy Week):
1) The color of the Candles and the Torches are yellow.
2) The Pope's Throne (and other seats) are "naked" - just like the Altar - to denote the desolation of the Church at the Death of Her Divine Founder.
3) The Cardinals and the Bishops do not wear their Rings.
4) The Cardinals and Bishops make use of their mourning colors for their stockings (purple and black, respectively). (My guess is that they would do the same for their cassocks).
5) The Pope does not wear his Ring and wears a RED Cope.
6) The Passion was chanted by three cantors wearing Alb and (black) Maniple and Stole.
7) The Pope was not the Celebrant of these ceremonies; He only assisted.
latinmass1983 |
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03.21.08 | #
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Well, the Pope was wearing RED today because he was the Celebrant (N.O.). But he wore purple/violet during Advent.
My guess is that he will wear whatever color is the color of the day in the Novus Ordo.
I do not think that he will try to re-introduce a "special" color that only the Pope made use of during days of penance/mourning.
latinmass1983 |
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03.21.08 | #
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How about having the ministers come in vested in red and then change during the silence after Christ dies in the Passion wearing black for the rest of the service.
mourner |
03.21.08 | #
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"Exactly. A deep blood red with black orphreys is, I think, appropriate."
Something like this was used in the Sarum Use ("oxblood red") and possibly other medieval uses, though, of course, the whole medieval notion of color sequences can sometimes be a bit vague. I also have a vague recollection of red being used in the Milanese rite on this day but I may be imagining things.
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
03.21.08 | #
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I agree that black should be restored as an option. there is plenty of precedent for it among historical liturgical usage, as there is for red for Good Friday (as Matthew of Holy Whapping mentions). There is no reason that both should not be options, especialy in places where one or the other WAS the tradition.
Michael |
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03.21.08 | #
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How might we proceed?
I note that the official version of the current Instaurationes Generales Missale Romanum (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, or "GIRM") gives as the final sentence in article 346:
Conferentiae tamen Episcoporum possunt definire, ad colores liturgicos quod attinet, et proponere Apostolicae Sedi aptationes, quae necessitatibus et ingenio populorum respondeant.
One's episcopal conference may propose to Rome such a modification. Not that I expect the USCCB would ever do such a thing in my lifetime, mind you. But one can always hope.
Fr Arsenius |
03.22.08 | #
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Just FYI: In Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic usage, black is the colour appointed for Great and Holy Friday. Indeed, in Russian custom, black is used daily throughout Great Lent. For the feast of Pascha (Easter) itself, Russian use is to wear white or gold for the second half of the baptismal Divine Liturgy on Holy Saturday and for Paschal Matins (which starts at midnight), then change to red for the Divine Liturgy which immediately follows, and to wear red until the leave-taking of Pascha (the day before Ascension). Others wear white throughout the season. Red in this context is a substitute for the ancient imperial purple, which seemed quite appropriate to celebrate the Resurrection of the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Fr. Philip
Igumen Philip (Speranza) |
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03.22.08 | #
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... But he wore purple/violet during Advent.
My guess is that he will wear whatever color is the color of the day in the Novus Ordo.
Yes, but in ordinary form funerals Pope Benedict has been seen wearing red. Not violet, not black.
So there is a partial restoration of the ancient custom of red as colour of mourning for the Pope.
Prof. Basto |
03.22.08 | #
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Prof. Basto,
He also wore red as a Cardinal. If we remember correctly, Card. Ratzinger wore RED for the funeral of the late Pope.
He did not wear violet nor purple... and he had not been elected Pope yet.
Are Cardinals required to wear red for funerals in the Novus Ordo?
latinmass1983 |
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03.22.08 | #
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Interesting comments above, thank you.
I am wondering about the kinds of vestments used perhaps, in addition to the color scheme.
For example, the vesting of all those, including the Priest, who chant the Passion wearing Dalmatics; or on Holy SAT Easter Vigil, beginning with purple for the lesson of Readings prior to the singing of the Gloria; except where the Deacon or Priest is vested in a white Dalmatic for the chanting of the Easter Praeconium?
The usus antiquior had these differences in apparel, too...
Any thoughts on this?
Fr. Timothy Johnson |
03.22.08 | #
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The special liturgical book governing the funeral rites of a Roman Pontiff (Ordo Exsequiarum Romani Pontificis) require that red be used as liturgical colour for the Pope's Funeral Mass, and also for all Requiem Masses of the Novemdiales.
This rule is rooted in ancient tradition.
Perhaps it has to do with red being the colour of mourning worn by the Popes when they are alive, and an ancient colour of mourning (black and violet as liturgical colours developed at a later stage, and the Pope remained wearing red, so perhaps the Pope's funeral also remained untouched by the developement of new colours in the Roman Rite), or perhaps (as some commentators suggested on TV during the late Pontiff's funeral), it has to do with the fact that red is the colour for the liturgical commemoration of an Apostle, and the Pope, as successor to St. Peter, is considered a special partaker in the Apostolic dignity (I see a connection here with expressions such as Apostolic Palace, Apostolic Penitentiary, Apostolic Letter, with the adjective Apostolic applied only to the Pope, but not to other Bishops, although those are also Successors to the Apostles).
So, that is the reason why Cardinal Ratzinger, as principal concelebrant, and the other concelebrants, wore red for the Pope's funeral.
The body of the deceased Pope is also clothed in red Mass vestments, and that happened in John Paul II's case as well, as we all remember. That is also rooted in ancient custom.
Prof. Basto |
03.22.08 | #
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I guess that to find out for certain, we will have to wait for a day when the Pope will only attend Mass said by a Cardinal on a day of penance or a funeral.
Then, we will see whether the Pope decides to continue that tradition that the Pope wears red, even when the Celebrant of the Mass wears purple or black.
Part of the "difficulty" now is that the Pope celebrates Mass publicly much more frequently than before.
latinmass1983 |
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03.22.08 | #
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Black vestments may be appropriate for a requiem mass, but not for Good Friday since: a. only the Lord's human nature died, His divine nature tasted death, but could not die; b. we know the Lord's death, the death of His human nature, lasted only three days, and was followed by a far more glorious Resurrection. c. Red focuses our thoughts on the Precious Blood shed for us and reaffirms the connection between the Divine Martyr and the human martyrs who imitated His sacrifice.
John M. |
03.23.08 | #
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T. Pope, Holy Week in the Vatican (1874) confirms everything latinmassa983 reported from Mgr. Baggs, except that he doesn't mention the color of the Pope's cope. But he does add: "The priest and ministers wore black vestments." (p. 202)
I found interesting the following description: "The dragoons, in place of carrying their swords erect as usual, carried them suspended from the right arm, from the leathern loop of the hilts, with the points downwards--the infantry carried their rifles reversed, in token of mourning--and the rumbling drums, being unbraced, had a flat, unearthly sound. ... The guard of nobles, like the other military, held their drawn swords with points inverted." (p. 201)
And the following, which occurs when the Pope adores the Cross: "A knight attended the Pope, and carried a crimson purse, embroidered with gold, filled with money, and cast it into silver basin, as commemorative of the sale of Christ by Judas' treason for thirty pieces of silver. The cardinals and generals of religious orders advanced two and two in like manner, without their shoes, made their adorations, each cast a handful of silver crowns into the silver dish. After the ceremonies, this money becomes the perquisite of the sacristan." (p. 204)
Greg Smisek |
03.25.08 | #
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