Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
www.chartreux.org contains a lot of information about the Carthusians, including pictures of the charterhouses and their statutes, which includes some detail on their liturgy. I noted a new CD of music from the Grand Chartreux.
Is the film slated for release in American movie theaters?
Thank you and God bless you.
Sorry to disappoint you: almost no liturgy...
Shawn,
I couldn't wait and bought it on Amazon Germany. Now I am waiting on it to arrive home.
I'd like to purchase a DVD when available on the US or Canadian market, or even on e-Bay.
I have always admired the Carthusians. Unfortunatly they like all Orders have had to accept Vatican II, and like all Orders have declined significantly since the Council, but they still remain one of the oldest and most respected (certainly the most austere and disiplined) Orders in the Church, and except for the liturgy, among the most traditional in lifestyle.
I was surprised to read that the Order has founded a few new houses in recent years (Brazil,Argentina,S.Korea) somewhat in compensation for closing 2 houses in Europe (1 France, 1 Spain).
The Order is doing surprisingly well in some countries, and it looks like a house of monks might be in the works for Poland.
There is even a small (less than 20 monks) Carthusian foundation in France which celebrated the Tridentine Latin Mass, but is affiliated to the SSPX. Not surprisingly, they have more novices (5), that all the other "Vatican II" Carthusian houses of monks(4) in France.
Likewise, I hate to disappoint. In 1995, I wa privileged to spend a week in Parkminster, England, and was eager to see the Carthusian Missal in use. It was indeed used but the beautiful (but understandably small) ad orientem altar was left unused, and instead a 'butcher's block' style replacement was stood on the floor between the choir stalls at one end. The priests concelebrated facing the brothers. Communion was distributed under both kinds using a three-handled trophy-like chalice for the Precious Blood. They did however retain the prostration of all present on the floor after the consecration. There appeared to me to be no atmosphere of 'what can we try next week?' more an air of 'this is what we do now; let us adore God.'
Understandably, I didn't get an opportunity to find out the views of the community on the changes, having been permitted to speak only to the Prior, the infirmarian and the refectorian's assistant.
I saw this film on screen last week in Montreal, and it was a bit of a disappointment. I found the film maker's own poetic expressions too distracting, as I was never sure what they were about. Also, I did not get the impression that, although the monks are there speaking to God in the silence, God is actually speaking back to them. I suspect that a practising Catholic would have filmed differently. There was also too little liturgy shown in community; near the end was a very short clip of the Mass celebrated ad orientem on a simple free standing altar.
However, it was nice to get a glimpse of a week at the monastery, and to see some of the breathtaking scenery there.
Another interesting site that includes music CDs for sale, by the way, is www.musee-grande-chartreuse.fr
Also, I did not get the impression that, although the monks are there speaking to God in the silence, God is actually speaking back to them.
That strikes me as a rather odd comment... perhaps readers of the NLM might be interested in the somewhat more positive review I wrote of this wonderful documentary which has been posted to Godzdogz .
That's not what we're waiting for.
I amazed that people can find it in them to criticize the Carthusians. What difference does it make to us if they choose not to celebrate ad orientam. They are cloistered after all, it's their own affair. Instead of nit picking, we should admire the example they give us of a life devoted to the Lord. Are we at NLM a bit cranky or what?
(Since they are growing in other countries, perhaps the decline in Europe has more to do with Europe than the Carthusians)
Ted,
With all due respect, that just seems to be a silly comment to make. (The comment Fra Lawrence pointed out).
What is your reasoning for saying such a thing?
Fra Lawrence's review sold me. I do have one question, though. Both the Dominicans and Carthusians (among others) are orders that have a rich liturgical life based on a divine office.
Yet, if memory serves, St Ignatius broke from this tradition in founding the Jesuits. In other places I've read that the "old school" Jesuits (let's say prior to the 1950's) did have a liturgical life in common.
Could someone clarify this for me?
Raving Papist,
As one younger (i.e. in his early 50s) Jesuit put it to me, "St. Ignatius got the Pope to say that we don't have to pray in common, but many Jesuits act as if we're not allowed to pray in common."
There have been periods in the Society's history, however, (e.g. the 17th century) when praying the office in choir was actually a Jesuit practice (I think O'Malley has a bit on this in The First Jesuits).
I do not regard my own comment about Parkminster not celebrating ad orientem as nit-picking. Had they been setting up a new chapel in new setting then, maybe, just maybe, given the spirit of the age such a decision would have been more easily understood. For a cloistered community which does not admit members of the public to its Masses to turn away from an established altar and immemorial practice, represents a deliberate and conscious decision, and is quite another matter. Nor can it be argued that a versus populum orientation would help the well-formed and devoted brothers 'understand the Mass better'.
There is even a small (less than 20 monks) Carthusian foundation in France which celebrated the Tridentine Latin Mass, but is affiliated to the SSPX.
Real authentic there...
My interpretation of Ted's comment is that his impression that God isn't speaking back has to do with the director and not the brothers. He says: "I suspect that a practising Catholic would have filmed differently."
Except for the dying and the blind monks, it was difficult to see the joy on the other monk's faces when God's presence was made manifest to them whether in prayer or at work. For much of the film one could see and feel how uncomfortable the monks were with a camera (and crew) bearing down on them, and how distracting it was to them from their prayer in solitude. I think the film maker could have done things differently in order to capture that joy of God speaking to the monks: he should have been looking specifically for those moments of joy and working hard to capture them, but that seems not to have been his concern, and he may have even been oblivious to it.
I may be sounding over critical, but most of us have seen that joy in people's faces when in the presence of God, whether in or out of monasteries, but which the film fails to capture.
Ted,
It might be better if we read Groening's own words on his experience of filming the monks.
Notably, just on points of information, you would learn there was no crew - just Groening - and he lived the monastic round, which left him just 3-4 hours a day to film.
This is not so much a "reality show" or "documentary" as a lived experience of Carthusian life in the 21st century.
For allowing us this rare glimpse, we ought to be thankful and rejoice that God calls some to such a beautiful vocation.
I bought the DVD in Rome a couple of months ago.
I needed to see it twice before appreciating it. I found that I got the best out of it, when I watched it last week. I watched it late at night in a darkened room. That was when I was able to block out all distracting noises and sights and let the monks speak for themselves.
The thing that grabbed me about the Carthusians was their ordinariness. They were just doing their "stuff".
Whilst working in my garden on the weekend I realised that I was just doing the same things that they were doing. The biggest difference was the level of prayer life that they have - a bit different from me reciting the daily office before leaving for work in the city!
As for liturgy, I think at that level of communion with Christ they had moved on from the discussions we have here. The Mass is communion with Christ no matter how it is celebrated. When the Mass and the Office is celebrated in silence, humility and solitude, arguments about the direction of the priest and the language fade away.
I think that what you see the Carthusians doing is what all communities should be aiming for in terms of peace and recollection in their liturgy.
PS I must confess I was impressed by the Latin chant tho.
I purchased the DVD from Germany back in November from Amazon.de. Please note, that if you purchase this version from Germany (or any other Region 2 country) you will need a "region-free" DVD player to play the disc in the US or Canada (Region 1). You may have better luck on your computer DVD player.
In any event, just being able to get a glimpse into the Carthusian Way of Life for me was truly amazing. Again, this is not a "reality show" type of production but rather more like a "visual prayer". An honest glimpse into the contemplative way of life. The recitation of the "Benedicite Dominum" is absolutely magnificent and truly inspirational. Be all means, go see this movie!!
"BENEDICITE, omnia opera Domini, Domino; laudate et superexaltate eum in saecula."
Hi Fra' Lawrence:
Please do not misunderstand. The film is worth seeing, as very few have seen the inside of a Carthusian monastery. It is just that I find the film is about a monastery and the monks inside and little more. The film maker and I obviously have different cinematographic/ theological "tastes". For me, it is not the silence that should be important in the film, but hearing the voice of God in that silence; it is not time and seasons that should be important, but the timelessness of a loving God filling the monks' souls and radiating through their faces throughout the monastery. In other words, trying to convey the presence of God would have been my first priority, even though a difficult one at that to capture. Groening himself pointed out (as transmitted in last week's Catholic Herald piece) that after shooting the film he spent two years editing trying to figure out what to do with the footage, and was never quite sure about it.
By the way, before I saw the film I had thought that Groening was alone filming, but the credits misled me. Nevertheless, a camera with mike boom and cameraman bearing down on someone is difficult to ignore. Also, Groening must have returned another time at least since seasons do not change from winter to summer in 4 weeks.
But again, please, the film is still worth seeing despite my critical rambling.
Ted:
Thanks for your clarification. In the interview Groening gave on the film's webpage, which I have linked to, he explains that he visited the monastery and lived there several times over the course of the year - not continuously - but for a total period of several months.
He mentions that he alone carried 20kg of equipment and had to be helped on occasion by the monks: "I did everything on my own: operated the camera, recorded the sound, carried 20 kilograms of equipment."
As for the film experience, I felt very much in watching it that I was able to enter the great silence, and there in a cinema, hear God speaking to me. It was striking that the cinema I was in was in silence and people left in silence afterwards. Sometimes it took longer for the meditative beauty of the film to sink in.
Incidentally, I watched it with Fr Aidan Nichols OP and he told me that later that night the images from the film kept returning to him and he realised only then how hauntingly beautiful it was.
Ultimately, no film can capture the diverse ways in which God speaks to a person's soul, but this cinematic experience certainly can help us listen for His voice and I suppose it touches each person differently, according to how He disposes them...
I think Groening's choice of Scriptural and Christian texts that intersperse the film makes this more than "just that I find the film is about a monastery and the monks inside and little more."
Anyway, I'm glad we agree that this film is well worth watching.
Kenjiro shoda ,
Why have I never hear of these SSPX carthusians before? I am very curious. Do you have any more details?
I too have purchased the dvd from amazon.de and have watched it several times with quite a few of my friends. To the extent there are complaints about it, they usually lump together around the filming of individual monks gazing into the camera lens for about 10 seconds each. Some of my friends considered that an invasion of privacy, however, it seemed to me to be a kind of moving (in more than one sense) portrait--something like the portraits of yore that took several minutes of immobility on the part of the subject--but nothing at all wooden about them. And I agree with the other commenters that the choice of texts and prayer helped evoke the spiritually pregnant silence these monks enjoy daily.
By the way, I've translated the German subtitles and if you can't wait to see the English version, just email me and I'll pass them on to you.
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