Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
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This sounds great, and it would be wonderful if Sacred Music would consider looking for more pieces that arose from the Latin American culture. The heritage there has been almost completely lost -- when you go to many places in Mexico today it appears as if nobody remembers anything before 1970. But I am sure that, insofar as they had a beautiful Catholic culture that produced so many beautiful churches and works of art, so they must have produced some wonderful music as well. This would be a service to the cause of hispanic ministry in our country, in the "post Motu Proprio" age, if Sacred Music or another organization would dig up these old treasures and begin promoting them again.
Transitional Deacon |
04.25.08 | #
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I completely agree of course. There is so much to do!
This piece was so incredible. It really makes you marvel that such a treasure would languish in some dusty folio for hundreds of years. Who knows? Maybe it will now become a standard motet for parish choirs? Wouldn't that be great?
jeffrey |
04.25.08 | #
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This is marvelous. I like Hernando Franco tremendously (who, incidentally, may have been an Aztec aristocrat) and am glad to see some of the wonderful heritage of Mexican and Latin American early music get its due in this forum; I strongly encourage anyone connected with the Tridentine mass or well-done Novus Ordos to look into this heritage and restore it to active use rather than simply in the repertoire of CDs and concerts. (I have heard lots and lots of Hispanic polyphony on CD, seldom in church). So often we lack the resources to do anything but fall back on old standards and neglect such wonderful sidelights of Catholic music, especially this, which certainly is significant not only as good liturgical music but as something distinctly American (in the sense of the Americas) and Catholic at the same time.
(It is interesting to note, by the way, that much Mexican polyphony and later church music seems to have been sung with instrumentation, often with delightful results, an indication that historic precedent in this manner is far more complex than some might think, as similar practices were common in Spain and even Rome. One particular practice is worthy of comment--sometimes consorts of recorder-players substituted for organs in small parishes without the resources to have a real instrument.)
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.25.08 | #
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Indeed, on page 117 of the 1974 Graduale Romanum, the introit for the Saturday in Week IV of Lent is Circumdederunt me.
This text is also set wonderfully by the Spanish composer Cristobal de Morales. I think the same words used by Jeffrey to describe the Franco can be applied to Morales' setting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R...h?
v=R6nJ6jiT3eQ
Aristotle A. Esguerra |
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04.25.08 | #
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(Correction: Morales sets only a portion of the text. Also, the liturgical use was different, if I recall correctly.)
Aristotle A. Esguerra |
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04.25.08 | #
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I'm very edified, as a hispanic traditional Catholic, that this work has been found and is being discussed here. There must be hundreds of buried pieces like this all over Latin America - and Transitional Deacon is right, a culture once capable of producing great sacred architectural and artistic beauty by logic also had to have produced great music-and you are not mistaken in this assumption. Consider the rich history of the episcopal sees of Havana, Mexico, Santo Domingo, Guatemala, Lima, Panama, Cartagena...among many others established since the 16th century (Santo Domingo since the 15th!). Consider for a moment the Churrigueresque baroque style which once flourished in Mexico, and the Altiplano baroque of the Andean countries, or the beauty and uniqueness of the Jesuit missions of Paraguay, W.Brazil and N.Argentina. This honestly just being the tip of the iceberg. The tragedy of Latin America, however, unlike Europe and North America, is the effect which colonialism had on culture. Only a small cross section of society was educated enough to appreciate and be aware of the finer elements within their culture. It was popular in the past, as it is still now, for the laity to want to avoid sung masses at all costs - they wanted the quickest and most convenient low masses, and those were very well attended, while the high mass typically was not. To this factor in the devastating cultural trends which came in the wake of the Council, and the even more devastating effects of liberation theology in latin america, which was a misguided attempt to bring God so close to man, that one lost sight of who God was all together. You can be sure that the first victim of this theology was naturally the Sacred Liturgy - and now the Church in Latin America is left still recovering from all this. I shutter at a typical Spanish-language Novus Ordo in the USA when i see the folk guitars or the other banalities - as in so many places of the Catholic world, I consider the magnitude of what was lost and can only hope of recovering at least some of it.
Emilio |
04.25.08 | #
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I was just in a play where we used a lot of Latin American polyphony as incidental music (between scene changes and as underscoring). As a classical singer, I was aware that this music existed but I'd never heard any of it until I started working on this show. I was captivated from the first note. I am a Hispanic and I have traditional leanings when it comes to worshipping God. I would love to hear these pieces in their proper context. It is a shame that Hispanics are ignorant of the entirety of their heritage, as this is as much a part of it as mariachi bands and Andean music are. And it kills me that most Hispanics don't care for it at all. Even if a good number of it was written in the indigenous languages. How's that for authentic inculturation?
Jeffrey, perhaps after you explore the riches of Mexican polyphony you can explore what was written for the sees at Lima and Cartagena? I say that because that's my father's and my mother's countries respectively.
Lirioroja |
04.25.08 | #
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I would love to but let me emphasize again that this discovery wasn't my doing. Not much is actually! This great material just lands in my in box, so I'm just delivering the mail, that's all.
jeffrey |
04.25.08 | #
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there is a wonderful recording of mexican and peruvian polyphony sung by the westminster choir. chanticleer has come out with a cd as well.
don roy |
04.25.08 | #
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This is an example of why we should look to Catholic composers for our liturgical music. There are countless pieces that languish in dusty unopened tomes for centuries in this case, and we never have the chance to hear them. If we were forced to look to only Catholic works just think of all the treasures that would come to light. I know that my opinion has caused contention here before, some even called me a "puritan", there are so many works like this that are long forgotten, but they are part of the golry of the Church, give them a chance and we will have no need for music of non catholic composers.
Anonymous |
04.25.08 | #
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That was supposed to be "glory" of the church, sorry. :-)
Anonymous |
04.25.08 | #
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You know, its not really the guitars themselves so much, but rather the kind of music they are playing that's so dreadful. As a continuo instrument, the guitar can really be quite wonderful, and as an accompaniment to classical Hispanic church music, oh my what a blessing. Why isn't this stuff being celebrated and sold as authentic multi-cultural music? This would be of inestimable value to my congregation, esp. if I were to do some of this music during Holy Week or on other Holy Days when both the Hispanic and Anglo congregations are at the same mass.
clint |
04.25.08 | #
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clint - that's precisely the problem -the guitar is a folk instrument in Latin America, the traditional liturgical instrument, like here and elsewhere, is the organ, though other instruments were included in polyphonic works. But yes, bowing my head to Sacrosanctum Concilium, it is possible to produce something worthy of the liturgy for guitar, though it is seldom done. I will say, for the benefit of those here interested in a "reform of the reform" among latin americans in the US and elsewhere - that there is a relatively new relgious community of priests and nuns (only about 20 or so years old) - the Institute of the Incarnate Word (the "IVE's") has made inroads in several American dioceses. The sisters wear a distinct royal blue and grey habit, and I saw many of them in the television coverage for the Papal visit. They are very much committed to a "reform of the reform" in the Novus Ordo, and they're a breath of fresh air in hispanic ministry in the US. If anyone googles them, you will find their website.
Emilio |
04.25.08 | #
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Check out the catalogue of Juan Pedro Gaffney and Coro de Hispano de San Francisco (Mission Dolores.)Google him, worth it.
Charles in CenCA |
04.25.08 | #
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Re Guitars:
In Latin America, guitars often accompanied sackbutts, shawms, recorders and organs (Mexico has a marvelous tradition of organ music, incidentally) as accompaniment for many polyphonic pieces, as well as more vernacular pieces such as villancicos that were occasionally incorporated into celebrations of matins and the like, just as lutes, theorbos and the like were incorporated into much Italian church music. (Indeed, I believe in Europe strings were considered more suitable than wind instruments for church compositions).
(Let us also not forget the Seises, the special group of choirboys who played castanets on high feast-days in renaissance Spain and America.)
The difference between now and then was the guitar and other such instruments were not obtrusively scored and only served as accompaniment much like we would use "high" secular instruments as violins or brass during mass, not used for their own sake and not necessarily in a folksy manner, though there was plenty of religious-inspired folk music (as well as "classical" compositions inspired by them, 300 years before Aaron Copeland!) played during para-liturgies and outside mass on festal occasions. (The recording to start off with is Boston Camerata's Nueva Espana, http://www.bostoncamerata.com/cd...s/revnueva.htm)
The guitar is perfectly suitable as an accompanying instrument for liturgical music...so long as the music is at least 300 years old and you have a few shawms to balance things out.
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.25.08 | #
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(FYI, that last recording includes sacred, secular, and extraliturgical religious compositions, and the instrumentation presumably varies slightly depending on the type.)
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.25.08 | #
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Also look into the music of Esteban Salas, a baroque Cuban composer whose works are simply charming. He had a suitably miserable composer's life, but you'd never know it from his villancicos.
Of course, there are also the recordings done by Andrew Lawrence-King. The arpa de dos ordones was often used to accompany liturgical music, as was the violin. While there were organs in many places in the New World, we all know how treacherous they are to maintain. Additionally, one of the first tasks of the missionaries was to teach the newly-converted how to sing chant and polyphony, build instruments, and start playing.
So let's have some real history and real diversity. And we'll do some beautiful music along the way.
Mary Jane |
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04.25.08 | #
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I'd also like to point out that Jeffrey is teasing us with the Summer issue.
Mary Jane |
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04.25.08 | #
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I've programmed the Easter motet/sequence 'Alleluia, dic nobis, Maria' of the Mexican composer Francisco Lopez Capillas a number of times, all very satisfying and more than worth the effort. I first heard it on the Westminster Cathedral recording referenced above and tracked down a score with great difficulty.
The shocking condition of almost all church organs in Latin America also speaks plainly of the debasement of the liturgical arts there.
The music at all Spanish-language Masses I've attended or assisted as a musician in the Archdiocese of Washington has been an endless succession of secular/social/dance forms rewritten with texts of the Mass and of various hymns of dubious theological content (Liberation Theology is alive and well at OCP.) It's the lowest common denominator principle at work and ultimately a great injustice.
Daniel |
04.25.08 | #
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Morales used the text for Matins Office of the Dead. See Grayson Wagstaff's excellent dissertation (UTexas) on this subject.
Franco an Aztec? That would have been difficult since he was born in Spain (Extremadura).
We should be careful in suggesting that guitars were used with liturgical polyphony (villancicos, sure) but sackbuts, shawms, cornettos, and viols did often alternate verses with the choir and organ on big feast days. There is no hard evidence that instruments played WITH the singers, but then again, it's hard to imagine that they did not.
Michael O'Connor |
04.25.08 | #
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RE: the seises. Their principal occupation was singing the cantus line in polyphony in those places that did not have falsettists. I've tried this texture before and it works great. Put six boys on the cantus and 2 men each on altus, tenor and bassus. The balance is fabulous.
Michael O'Connor |
04.25.08 | #
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I have not yet gotten these 2 cds, but I have been impressed by most of the samples:
http://www.californiamissions.co...shop/
index.html
tedschan |
04.25.08 | #
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Michael--
re Hernando as an Aztec. You probably know more about this than I do but let me repeat what I've been told: the liner notes to one recording of Dios itlazo suggested it was written under the pen-name of Hernando Franco by an anonymous Aztec aristocrat; I assumed they were the same person, wrongly. Another thing I read suggested the Spanish Franco had one Aztec protege whose name escapes me.
So perhaps there are two Francos running around here.
re polyphony and instrumentation:
I don't know what the hard evidence is as I am not a musical scholar but someone who just likes to listen to early music CDs, but several very fine recordings by very reputable groups have reconstructed instrumental accompanyment (guitars or no) to polyphonic pieces sung in Spain and Mexico (Ensemble Elyma, the Boston Camerata, and the Gabrieli Consort come to mind); the effect is rather "Gabrielian" and seems to me believable, though, like you said, perhaps a more conservative approach might also be valid. I have read though that even in Rome at the period instrumentated masses were not as rare as one might think. But I defer to the music scholars on this point.
As to guitars, I know in the 19th century travelers to Mexico record high mass as being sung to the accompanyment of two guitars; and I think lutes were used in Italy in a similar capacity at some point in the 17th c., not that that proves anything. Mostly I'm just going off the instrument list on the Nueva Espana recording by the Camerata and while I assume they were being accurate (they don't seem inclined to historical fantasy on their recordings) they could well be wrong or just indulging in a bit of whimsy.
(There are other recordings of such pieces that seem to me to introduce all manner of wild instruments such as rattles and the like, and in those cases I definitely think it's a bit of a stretch!)
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.25.08 | #
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Matthew,
Yes, the guitars are most definitely used from about the late 17th century, on. I was referring to 16th-century polyphony. I have been researching this for some time now and the maddening thing is that instruments are mentioned (in Spain) frequently, but the primary sources never come out say exactly what they do! Existing mss certainly point to instruments taking verses of the Magnificat, Salve, and other alternatim pieces (along with the organ or even in alternation with it), but no documents say anything about colla parte playing. The evidence in Venice (Gabrieli's scoring of his larger, early 17th-c works) certainly indicates that it was done there, but using Venice as model has its problems since they were so unique in their practices -- they were probably the most excommunicated city in history! That said, my hunch is that instruments did double voices quite often. The group, Orchestra of the Renaissance, records Spanish polyphony this way and I quite like it.
Regarding Franco, I don't have anything in print that suggests that he or anyone taking his name was a Nahuatl speaker, but he certainly set a few Nahuatl texts to polyphony, probably for teaching purposes. Who knows on that one, but I would need some good evidence since his music seems pretty consistent. I looked over a lot of his Marian antiphons for my dissertation, and those at least are pretty consistent. I think he wrote something like four Salve settings -- which btw was the only Marian antiphon sung in Spain and the New World until after the 1570s or so.
In the end, this is all great stuff and I'm glad Jeffery brought this setting to our attention. For more Franco check out Robert Snow's (yes, the same one who set the modern Lord's Prayer chant) A New-World Collection of Polyphony for Holy Week and the Salve Service. You can see some of this on a Google Book search, btw. The edition has all of Franco's Salves and a number of other works.
One more thing, I had the privilege of doing a recording (I play sackbut) of Colombian Renaissance music (in Colombia) back in 1997. There are some beautiful churches in Bogota.
Michael O'Connor |
04.25.08 | #
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Dear Michael,
Thanks for the more solid information. My knowledge in this area is very uncertain and anecdotal so I appreciate a scholar's perspective in this matter, who has actually looked into the matter far further than I have; I am glad to hear our readership includes professionals of your caliber, as for so long the liturgical movement and early music circles have overlapped far less than one might think... And hooray for sackbutts!
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.26.08 | #
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(when I say the liturgical movement I don't mean the website, but the situation in general; it seems like most motet programming tends to draw from a fairly small pool of 16th or occasionally 19thc. composers whenever I go to a big mass in either form of the rite.)
Matthew of the Holy Whapping |
04.26.08 | #
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Yes, who can't love a sacbut?
Michael O'Connor |
04.26.08 | #
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This is great news, as I'm trying to work in a more Tradiionally minded Youth Ministry, and showing the greatness of the Latin American polyphony would be great in this grand endevor that is planned.
Joe of St. Thérèse |
Homepage |
04.26.08 | #
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Don't forget St. Francisco Solano (the namesake of our Ven. Solanus Casey) down in South America. He played violin!
Maureen |
04.28.08 | #
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Michael,
Where can I purchase that recording you made of Colombian polyphony? I would love to hear it!
Lirioroja |
04.28.08 | #
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