Post intelligent and civil comments. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the NLM
There are a lot of us out there. Most of us have been in hiding for years, waiting for the right time to bring back the ancient tradition. I believe the movement will continue to grow, thanks to the welcome mat the Holy Father has laid out for us.
Notre Dame has become a very friendly place in recent years for Latin and Gregorian chant which are being incorporated into their liturgies with greater frequency. . ND is pretty mainstream Catholicism. If Latin and Gregorian chant are being used there it will surely spread throughout the nation. Tom
Shawn,
Are you aware of a FAQ that could fit on A4 for people new to the Classical Rite? I am currently trying to think of ways to make our local Indult Mass more user-friendly.
Thanks!
It should be understood that what I wrote above presupposes the fact that any and all good done by ourselves has been possible only by the grace of God.
[The previous message was deleted. Eric, if you can't control your anger, you need to at least control your tongue here. - NLM]
Eric,
To support what you are saying here's a conversation I had with a liberal priest - who has served as director of the Archbishop’s Office of Worship and as liturgical consultant for the building and renovation of churches in western Washington the Archdiocese of Seattle. He’s the parish priest in a small town just outside of Seattle.
I won't name him outright, but he was quoted a pooh-poohing the "Latin Mass" in an Eastern Washington newspaper and then later taken to task by the Latin Mass Magazine a few months back.
I woke up a later this morning and decided to attend the closest parish to save some time. I've avoided this parish for reasons that will be apparent in a moment.
If you will indulge me, I will chronicle my Mass experience below as well.
After being disappointed with Mass, I decided to discuss today’s "celebration" with the priest. I asked him first about why there was no kneeling and he blew it off as what they have being doing for as long as he can remember.
Then I asked him if he had read Sacramentum Caritatis and he responded that he did. My follow-up question was straightforward enough. I asked him whether he was planning to implement any of the simple Latin Prayers and a little Chant anytime soon.
His response was flippant. No one cares out Latin. This is nothing new. Many of the Church documents have said this before. None of the seminaries are going to teach Latin - it will be ignored as it always has since Vatican II. I countered with, but Latin is the official language of the Church. He retorted that it’s not the official language - no one understands it and no one wants to understand it nor cares! I said, that's not true - I care and there are many traditional Catholics who would beg to differ. Then he said, well it is people like you who will preserve it then won't you...
I asked him if the Arch Bishop has made any mention of the Apostolic Exhortation to fellow priest in meetings or through any communications. He said no and he didn't expect him to do so.
Instead, of showing my anger, I knew this wasn't the time to get into a full debate regarding the issue. So, I smiled and bid him a nice day.
Now, if you will all indulge me a few more minutes, I would like to share with you my experience today at the NO Mass I attended today. I've wanted to share this with someone all day. And I feel this is my only opportunity. Perhaps I'll start my own blog or something... We'll see. :-)
At today's Mass, there was a baptism and so there was a lot of commotion when I arrived early to pray with my 10 year old daughter. People were talking loudly as if arriving for rock concert. Two guitarists started warming up. My guess is that it was a mother-daughter tandem. They began warming up about 20 minutes early right when I was in the middle of my pre-mass prayer ritual - a selection of St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas prayers in Latin plus the Universal Prayer in La
(Continued)
Latin since I had my Daily NO Missal with me.
They asked everyone to pay attention to them since they wanted to go over a new song with the congregation (I use the word sarcastically) - since I felt as if I was at a Christian Revival Service with Joan Baez.
The Mass started out with the entrance guitar ensemble - forgoing the customary reverence, kissing the altar. He stopped to the side of the altar a few feet away and joined in the singing. Then the priest recited some prayers regarding the baptism at the side of the altar.
The opening prayer was said "normally" then the Readings, Responsorial Psalms (nicely done, actually - no accompaniment) and the Gospel. I like following along in my missal since I don't go to NO masses any longer since I sing in our Choir (Gregorian Chant only). I used to go back and forth between NO and the Old Latin Right, as I was experimenting between the two for a few months. I am a revert after being agnostic for 30 years - I haven't missed a Mass since having an amazing conversion of my heart, mind and spirit last May.
No Credo was said as we moved into the sacrament of baptism "rite", if that is what one refers to it - forgive my ignorance. After the baptism and the load applause - I always refrain from clapping - it just doesn't seem right to me. I crossed myself in Latin and prayed for the newly anointed baby instead.
Afterwards, general intercessions were said - standard fair. Shortly thereafter, the Offertory set to the strumming mother and daughter group and a procession of gifts and the preparation of the later.
Here I couldn't believe my eyes. As the priest remained seated in his "chair" a young girl about the age of 12 or 13 perhaps, began preparing the altar. She brought up the chalice covered it and laid out the linens (sorry I don't know the formal term). The Priest received the "gifts" including the Hosts. At least there were no liturgical dancers - I shouldn’t complain too much.
I watched the priest closely and didn't notice him reciting: "Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation..." I was watching his lips so I could come in as recite with the rest of the congregation - "Blessed be God for ever." It never came! This didn't occur with the Chalice either with no slight bowing or any cues to repeat: "Blessed be God for ever." However, the congregation responded to the priest, after washing his hands and saying, "Pray, brethren..." with "May the Lord accept this sacrifice..."
Then the priest started the Eucharist Prayer - surprise - EP-2. The congregation remained standing throughout the entire EP. I couldn't believe it - NO KNEELING at all!!
(To be Continued)
(Continued)
During communion, everyone stood the entire time. Again, no kneeling whatsoever - even after the last person received the Eucharist. Everyone sat down after the priest sat down and another song was played by our resident musical entertainment for the day.
After the concluding rite - blessing and dismissal our entertainment for the day played another Joan Baez tune so we got our monies worth, I suppose.
I left the Mass feeling very disappointed and will try to avoid at all costs another visit to this particular parish again... I rather go to any of the other parishes’ 6pm masses, if necessary! Even if I were to have the misfortune of having to attend a "Life-Teen" Mass; it would be less painful than today’s experience – well maybe not.
Before leaving I wanted to ask the priest a few questions which were covered in the beginning of my post.
Thank you for indulging me... I felt like I needed to get my frustration with today's Mass off my chest and bury this before going to bed this evening.
Con Fides,
Mark
Lastly, forgive my typos and other mistakes here and there... I'm tired and didn't proof-read before sending.
Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.
Con Fides,
Mark
Mark,
Are you from the diocese of Rochester? That sounds like the kind of nonsense that I grew up with!
I guess the moral of the story is: don't oversleep :-)
Seattle, WA - a rather liberal Catholic community, unfortunately.
Thank our Lord and Savior for the Indult we do have here. Without it, it's enough to consider the Greek Orthodox Church - I'm not being fecetious.
Con Fides,
Mark
Shawn:
Nothing I said wasn't objectively true, and you had no moral right to delete it.
You've done nothing more than demonstrate just how right I am, and how unable you are to offer an honest rebuttal.
Pope Benedict XVI needs to what JP2 shoulda done: resign; he's shown himself incompetent, and otherwise unwilling to do what it takes to get his job done.
Mark, my sympathies, this is what many parishes in W.Wa. are like--including my own. Where do you usually go that is different? I could guess the parish you visited, but it would take too long since there are so many like it.
There are others though, that are feeling more free to be traditional/orthodox: St. Philomena in Federal Way, St. Mark in Shoreline, OLPH/IC in Everett, Holy Rosary & Holy Family in West Seattle, of course Blessed Sacrament in the University District. There are more, but maybe one of these would work for you next time.
LeeAnn,
I have divided my time between a parish in Issaquah, St. Joseph's and the Indult Mass in Downtown Seattle, St. Joseph's Chapel. The Later is a small chapel in the Hotel Josephina which is where the Seattle Diocese Housing Authority is located. The former is a parish that has a fine priest who is fighting against the relativist mentality infecting many Catholic Churches. He is quite opposed by the liberals in the parish. But as he has mentioned to me many times that it is the Liberal members that hold the real power.
In contrast to the Parish in Snoqualmie, near where I live in North Bend - St. Joseph's is considerably more palatable.
The daily masses are solemn and the priest alternates between chanting the Sanctus and Agnus Dei in English and Latin, roughly every other day.
I really love this priest. He respects my favoring of tradition and we have wonderful conversations quite often. I volunteer as the director of The Dead Theologian's Society. Every three weeks I minister/direct/lecture a group of high school kids after their Life-Teen Mass at 6:30 pm for two hours. The focus of the program, which I direct, is a focus on the Saints and how we are all called to be Saints in the Church.
Since joining the choir at the indult Mass in Seattle, I only attend daily Mass at St. Joseph's Church. I really can't handle the Life-Teen masses. Therefore, when I run the Dead Theologian's Society after their Mass, I don't attend.
I was confirmed this past April 14th at St. Joseph's in Issaquah by auxiliary bishop Eusebio Elizondo.
Unfortunately, we traditionalists don't have the the option of being confirmed in the traditional manner (at least in Seattle) but are forced to have our confirmations in Novus Ordo Churches.
Do you know any other Eastside Churches that I should visit if I find myself sleeping in again?
Con Fides,
Mark
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