Thank you for publishing some of the pictures I´ve send you. The Cross is very beautiful, and the procession was a great moment, even if clergy are modernist and the local liturgy is always by the ordinary rite.
gdr,
How do you know the clergy is "modernist"?
Great pictures...what a marvelous sanctuary! The entire thing is like the ark of the covenant. It truly marks the Holy of Holies.
Patrick,
The marvelous cathedral is a 13century original building, and have a great portuguese work in golden wood, and many styles mixted.
The clergy is modernist, I know. We don´t have tradicionalist liturgy in Portugal. FSSPX only have two priests here... In Setúbal, the clergy is famous for his extreme modernism, especially young priests. Only two or three are more traditionalists...
"Traditionalist" vs "modernist" seems a rather severe distinction to make between every single priest...
"Modernist" as a term is so overused and abused that it's hardly descriptive anymore..
Artifex,
I say "modernist" for a priest that defends the concilium revolution and all his aspects. I can guarantee that, in this way, they are modernists...
Incredibly beautiful!
With all of this beating, surely there's a dead horse around here somewhere....
Beautiful pics, beautiful church.
The beauty and grandeur of the church in the last photo struck me, but it also got me thinking -- could I pray in a church like that? It has been my experience, for example when I visit some new churches, such as the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament that Mother Angelica built, that the church was exceedingly beautiful but also exceedingly distracting. On the few occasions that I have been able to travel to see Mother Angelica's church, I really have not been able to pray there.
Yet, in these old churches, that in some respects are even more awe-inspiring -- that have even more gold leaf and decoration -- it seems to me that it is not all that difficult to pray, after the initial look around to see all of the beauty.
And I wonder if the difference is the amount of light. Many of these older churches rely on a limited number of electric lights and whatever natural light may come in. They tend to be shadowy and even somewhat dark.
Many newer churches, but especially the one that I am using as an example here -- Mother Angelica's -- are absolutely awash with light. Not only do they have larger windows (and hers are the type that have a lot of lighter colors in them that let more light in), but there are a lot of overhead lights, spotlights, and so forth.
There is something about a church with a minimal amount of electric light, with just natural light and shadows. Perhaps it is more mysterious, perhaps it better disposes the soul to prayer.
All beauty in a church is for God. And in that beauty we must see his glory. I understand your point of view, "Transitional Deacon", and I do like some simplicity on a sacred place decoration, as some monastic orders like, for example. But the grandeur of a church (wen is a really beauty and not a modernist abstraction art, because God is not abstract or subjective but absolut) must be for us a sign of his great truth, love, and beauty it self... God is beauty. Put our artistic capabilities in the service to this absolut sense of beauty, is a very important way of show Faith.
About the light: in a church light have a very important role, also in the liturgy act, with oder as sonds and smells... in the easter vigil, for example, is the most important sign for the faithfuls. But a church without many light can be, in the same time, a good place do meditate in death, sin, etc...
I was in Budapest a fortnight ago and went to see the magnificent Basilica of St Stephen, a huge c19 neo-Classical church built on a Greek cross plan. It has recently emerged from an exemplary restoration and gleams with gold leaf on capitals, walls and enormous candle-brackets, and masses of polished marble. It is immaculate. I mention this because artificial light is kept to the minimum and the church was radiant with Spring sunlight. Natural light brought out the beauty of mouldings, maintained the scale, and gave the basilica a life unacheived by artificial light. The result was awe-inspiring and numinous and emphasized what I have long known: that over-lit churches are not only architecturally distorted and counter-productive in their results but inimical to form, atmosphere and devotion.
Interestingly however, Byzantine churches -- at least those I have been in -- are quite bright because they do not typically employ stained glass -- if they really follow their tradition.
And yet with that and the ornateness inside, they are incredibly condusive to prayer through the iconography.
Some people will go to heaven and still find something to whine about.
Dear GdR, my congratulations for the publication of these beautiful pictures in the excellent blog that is "NLM".
To the readers of "NLM", being myself a portuguese traditional catholic like GdR, I can also confirm that the main portuguese clergy is currently from a extreme progressist type, thinking and acting in the radical way proper of the late 60's, early 70's. Liturgical abuses are quite common in Portugal; Motu Proprio "Eclesia Dei", from Pope John Paul II, was completely despised in Portugal, like Motu Proprio "Summorum Pontificum", from Pope Benedict XVI, is now being totally ignored by portuguese bishops. So, don't be misguided by the beautiful church and traditional vestments you are seeing in the picture, because this is not common in Portugal.
When I see the overall pictures published by "NLM" publishs, I even wonder if they are portraying the same Church we have in Portugal, the difference between both realities being so abyssal.
"The beauty and grandeur of the church in the last photo struck me, but it also got me thinking -- could I pray in a church like that?..."
It is already a form of prayer and contemplation to gaze with reverent awe at the icons and statues in a Church, and thus to be lifted to holy thoughts and pious resolutions.
In a world with very little beauty, simply being moved by the holy beauty of a church can be an aid to prayer. I often find myself "distracted" by the beauty of churches when at prayer and feel bad about it but then I realize I am perpetuating a false dichotomy, and that God is glad for my joy, I think.
I'm from Setúbal and I often go to Mass at S. Julião's church and to the Cathedral. I personally know the pastors of these churches (one of them has a doctorate in Liturgy from one of the Pontifical Universities in Rome and what you see in the pictures is an expression of what he has been acomplishing in Setúbal).
I also know a few of the younger Priests in the Diocese. We have several young and hard-working Priests now ('John Paul II' Priests). I also know quite a few of the older ones.
They are orthodox and faithful to the Pope (i.e. they are neither modernists, nor lefebvrists).
There have been in the past 2 (two) priests who have publically stated that they were marxists and who suported far left political parties after our 1974 'revolution' (they have very limited pastoral duties, now ...). There were a couple of other priests which I know of who used to defend dissident views concerning doctrine, liturgy, authority, etc... (one of them passed away). And I'm sure that there were in past and probably even now other situations which I am not aware of (Thank God !).
But to say that all or even the majority of the City Priests are modernists is simply false slanderous.
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