It's about time people wake up and see that religion does more harm than good. Maybe the youth of america will wake up and realize that there is no god and that religion stirs more hatred than any other reason I can think of.
Thank you so much for this. I think a big reason that most people have a more negative view of Christianity is that we have been under attack from religious fundamentalists on all levels.
The perception is that they don't want to coexist, they want to conquer and convert. It is only a natural response that more people would dislike them.
Anyway, this is a piece of good news in the face of a seeming onslaught of attempts to force religion on the american populace.
Hopefully Ron Paul will get elected President, so we can finally establish the "robustly Christian, yet religiously tolerant America" the founding fathers intended.
We also need to pass Ron Paul's "We The People" act so that we can stop Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, and false-Christians (Papists) from occupying positions of power in our state legislatures. Only then will our nation be safe from the pepole who hate God.
I am a Christian but I have to concur that I believe the church has done a bit of disservice to itsself by becoming overly engaged in political activity.
Studying the actions of Jesus, he seemed to care very little about the politics of Rome or who the leaders of the nations were. Jesus only seemed to be interested in the individual and not the organizations, so we as Christians should probably try to do a better job of following our lord's example and leave politics to you worldly people.
Thank God we live in a country that was founded on Christian beliefs, it is the only reason we have the freedoms we do, but the funny thing about Christianity is that it tends to thrive and grow better under persecution and under ground. For example one of the biggest revivals of Christianity in recent history has happened in communist controlled China, not to mention that they tried crushing Christianity at it's root by crucifying Christ, but that only served to grow it.
So if you are really opposed to Christianity, you may want to be careful about pushing us down and hating on us, it will probably only serve in helping us thrive.
Lobstertopia: I assume you are being sarcastic and merely pointing out one of the flaws in Mr. Paul. He does want to cater to the fundamentalists and has gone so far as joining one of the churches after leaving his own more sensible church that he grew up with -- that was in the last few years. I suspect it was a political move to try to win over vote and was not sincere at all. But that also bothers me. If he did it because he wants votes he isn't principled. If he did it because he really believes that's worse.
I am most certainly NOT being sarcastic. Ron Paul is a warrior for Jesus and so am I. We will prevail over the forces of evil (those who reject The Lord Jesus Christ).
God bless you.
Then you need some theraphy and Ron Paul needs better supporters. It is precisely your kind of antiAmerican, religious fanaticism that is destroying the US. Ron Paul says he believes in evolution! Is he still a warrior for Jesus if he believes in evolution? However, since Ron Paul isn't going anywhere near the White House I'm not worried. You are free to believe what you want, pity you don't think the same way for others. And I will point out that none of the major Founding Fathers was an orthodox Christian. None.
Oh, Mr. Lobstertopia -- the Lew Rockewell site you linked to is run by ultra fundamentalists Papists, as you mental cases like to call them. Second the silly law Ron Paul wants to introduce actually doesn't do what you say it does. No doubt your brain was working overtime since it petered out on you there. It says nothing about preventing nonChristians from serving in government. Paul has not gone that daffy and I suspect if you asked him he'd say that idea was antiAmnerican and contrary to what he believes in. However, I don't really support Paul so your cheerleading for him doesn't bother me. It might bother him since you are misrepresenting him grossly. But that is his problem not mine. He wanted a campaign that appealed to extreme nuts like yourself so he has to live with it when it happens.
In šaʾ Allāh (إن شاء الله
"God willing"
*Snark*
The amazing law that Dr Paul wants to pass would stop anti-Christians from appealing to the Supreme Court on matters of religion and "sexual orientation".
We could ban anti-Christians from holding office, or put a 10% extra tax on Jews, for just two examples, and the Federal Government could not interfere. We could ban abortion on religious grounds, and criminalize sodomy, and there would be nothing you heathens could do about it! Praise Jesus!
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Thankfully Lobstertopia`s are an endangered species and will fade away as the young overtake the old .Sadly the young will have the devision and war that the Lobstertopians left behind , to clean up .Still they will have learnt a good lesson , dont be like our nasty forfathers ! their path leads to distruction .
The United States is most definitely NOT a Christian nation and it was never intended to be by the founding fathers. Most of them were Deists. The Declaration of Independence only mentions God once and refers to "Nature's God". The US Constitution does not mention God or Jesus AT ALL. The First Amendment guarantees fredom of religion for EVERYONE. When are you going to get it through your heads that if you succeed at taking away everyone elses religious freedoms (and all other freedoms as well) then YOUR'S will be in jeopardy as well.
Try reading something besides the bible once in a while. Like the letters and journals of the founding fathers.
CL, keep up the good work.
btaylor52,
Keep in mind non-believers are not necessarily opposed to Christianity. Many of us, in fact, take it no more seriously than we do Judaism or Sikhism, or Wiccan, and hardly spend time thinking about it. We'd rather use our time in other pursuits.
By the way folks I’m convinced that Lobstertopia is an anti-Paul person. That’s okay with me, I don’t support him myself. But I think his tactics stink are are utterly dishonest. Paul’s law is stupid enough as it is and Lobstertopia doesn’t have to lie about it to make it worse. The 14th amendment would still apply and that guarantees equal rights under the law in all the states. His moronic examples wouldn’t work and neither would Paul’s equally moronic law.
Davey: Don’t assume that this is a battle only for the young. Most the true advocates of liberty I know are not young people -- perhaps unfortunate for me. I would love to see more. But you are right. Unfortunately the young see the problems but aren’t yet comprehending the principles of freedom. So they are contradictory on it. They want people to be free from one set of imposed religious values while promoting state imposed values of another kind. Instead of leaving people equally free to pursue their own values too many are calling for govt. to force their values on others.
Anonymous-- I basically agree with you. The only reason christianity gets discussed because it is the religion that is attempting to impose its values on people by govt. force. Next, would be Islam. (In other parts of the world that order would be reversed.) So they are legitimate points of concern for that reason. You see virtually no “attacks” on the Amish since the Amish aren’t forcing their religion on anyone but themselves, if you can call that force.
"When terror comes to America, it will be wrapped in the Quran and carrying a crescent moon." - Truth
I see the Dominionists have crawled out of their hole and discovered your 'blog. Does RJ Rushdoony like lobster?
I didn't know that McVeigh wrapp'd himself in the Koran, Mr Truth.
if you guys haven't noticed masonry - perhaps you should. it has created the mormons, jehovas witnesses, christian science, scientology, theosophy*, commercialized satanism, commercialized witchcraft (wicca).. the kkk...
and is running 'mainstream' christianity... though one following scripture CANNOT JOIN masonry.
Is. 14:12-16, Is 54:16, Enoch 14:4,
Rev 3:9 (families & lynn spyworld), Rev 17:2+5 (see origional 'Wicker Man' movie)
o.. and take a look at how the 'SLS laser' works... and think again about space..... and.. www.fotki.com/honorablepassion
ZEITGEISTmovie.com. All I have to say. Jesus is a FAKE. The Christains are worshipping the SUN on SUNday!!!!!!!!
I find your comparison of attitudes towards christianity and Islam by its own adherents misleading and irrelevant. Christians are now critical of christianity because of the fundamentalism. Muslims are and have been critical of terrorists and their extremist agendas NOT of Islam. Infact the westren media onslaught against Islam increased solidarity among Muslims and not dissent. Part of which is the promotion of so called ex-muslims get from the media. And how their outright lies are passed as academic findings. Example is when Parvin Darabi claimed on fox talk show that islam teaches women that they should commit suicide if they get raped.
Another thing you seem to ignore about Muslim countries is that the majority of them them ARE ALREADY SECULAR. You are oblivious to the reality that Muslims are now becoming more religious as a reaction to the war against terrorism, which many Muslims consider it a war against Islam.
I find your views ethnocentric and ill informed. You should read about Islam because lemme tell u one thing Islam does not equal christianity.
Religion is a tool used to exploit people.
They target the young, the grieving, the alienated and the poor.
And who benefits?
The old, the self-satisfied, the insiders and the rich.
Did Osama blow himself up? Of course not! He convinced younger people to die for him. If it was really instant paradise, he would have been first in line - but he wasn't.
Does the Pope give away his money? Of course not! He convinces poorer people to give away theirs!
It's a scam people - always has been.
Only after the last tree has been cut down
Only after the last river has been poisoned
Only after the last fish has been caught
Only then will you find you cannot eat money
-- Cree prophecy
We can try and blame Islam for the war if we like , but who do we fool but ourselves .We can read the bible and any words of any book but they mean nothing if our actions defeat the purpose .
Maybe one day (humans) will just concentrate on trying to be just that , first ! before they bother trying to climb any ladder to any higher level .
Then our children might have a future , and we can die with some real respect ! instead of blaming the young for anything they lack.
What use or need is there to convert anyone to anything , when first we really need to honestly covert ourselves to being human.
Truth: Terror comes in many guises, almost all of them fanatical. So far no one religion has a monopoly on terror.
BenK: I don’t think Rushdoony likes anything -- he’s dead. But I’m not sure how he felt about lobster. It is a shellfish forbidden under Levitical law in the Old Testament.
White Hat: Take your meds and get lots of rest. You need it.
FascistsUSA: I’ve seen Zeitgeist. It has small kernels of facts wrapped in layers of distortions. Even when there are conclusions I agree with the evidence they use is distorted or invented or dishonest.
Somemuslimguy: Every hard core religionist is just like you, blind to their own realities because their faith demands it. That is, in my view, the danger of faith. I actually lived in countries with large numbers of Muslims and a huge percentage of them were very secular and non-religious, like most Christians. Most Muslim countries are not secular. The closest is Dubai and there they still enforce a lot of Islamic morality. No other Muslim country even comes that close. And since I have said the war on terror is fueling Muslim extremism repeatedly on this blog your saying that I’m oblvious to that is rather silly.
Islam doesn’t equal Christianity. It is, in my opinion, even more absurd. But I defend the right of people to hold absurd beliefs and only ask that they respect the equal liberty of others. Unfortunately very large percentages of the faithful, of all faiths, don’t want to respect the rights of others.
Very good article! I say this as a Buddhist who has a college degree in Church Careers from a Methodist school.
The seeming takeover of Christianity by politicized and judgemental people has been a sickening thing to behold over the decades since 1977, when I got the degree.
Now the young people are turned off by the destructive effects of such thinking, as it has come to full fruition in the policies of the Bushies.
America is disgraced by the neocon ideology which has redefined torture to the point where Dubya says, "We don't torture, period," and it is the moral equivalent of Bill Clinton saying,"I did not have sex with that woman..."
Decent people are not fooled, so America is no longer held in the same high regard in the world that we once enjoyed, and Christianity has fallen from grace, too.
Maybe this is the beginning of a needed change for Christianity. I hope so. As a Buddhist, I want the world's religions to be all about compassion, not power struggles and smug superiority.
Terror comes in many guises, almost all of them fanatical. So far no one religion has a monopoly on terror.
CLS i think i can agree wholeheartedly with you on this ! ,and when we try to judge the measure with any exaltation of one above the other it is then that we lower ourselves .Personally i think it would be much better for all to aim for middle ground ! with wisdom that we all make mistakes .
I just wanted to add that incase i came across as being pro anything , and to also say like Reeking Havoc i found this a very good artical !.Id like to think this artical shows good reason for hope that some day common sense will prevail .
I don't believe you're correct in your hypothesis that Western nations other than the US turned away from religion because of its close connection with (much despised) politics. I have read that New Zealand is one of the most secular countries in the world and yet politicians are not universally reviled as they are in, say, the US or UK.
I believe that the European nations are, in general, very different from one another. It's not easy to lump them all together and say there is one reason why they're all non-religious. Perhaps it would be better to look at the US and ask why it is (was?) religious.
I think the answer is in the mythology and ideology of the US. The US is a culture of myths and ideology. European culture I find to be much more skeptical and cynical. I'm not talking about individuals here but rather the culture or society. You just have to look at the respective TV programs to see what I mean. US TV programs often have a moral lesson that is completely absent in, say, UK TV (eg I can't imagine a program like preachy "Law & Order" ever being made in the UK). Religion is just another ideology.
Of course, this begs the question: Why are the Americans more idealistic than the Europeans? I suspect it is because the nation was founded by idealists. The Declaration of Independence, anyone?
I would be interested to find out how religious the French are. Of all the Europeans, they seem to be the only ones with a nation based on myth and ideology (Liberty, Equality, Fraternity). Are they as religious as the Americans? Or did the Terror beat the idealism out of them?
Simon: A few points about NZ. First, remember that NZ was a British colony and the actual head of state is the Queen who is also the head of the church -- the Anglican Church. So the colony did evolve with a state church system. If you don’t think politicians are as reviled there I suggest you see how many people dislike people like Helen Clark and Winston Peters, two rather disliked politicians who have earned ever nasty comment they get. They are both very nasty pieces of work.
You say it would be better to ask why is the US religious. But you seem to forget that all those other Western nations were deeply religious. Most the religious lunacy that infests the US was brought over to the country by English settlers or evangelists. The people who got fundamentalism going in the US were almost all British. Nor should we forget that first attempts at Christian theocracy were in Europe. You had the millenarian anabaptists who set up coercive theocratic states on two occasions. And don’t forget Calvin’s horrid example of Geneva. Nor can you ignore that Europeans were slaughtering one another in the name of god for centuries.
Now you can’t imagine a “preachy” show being made in the UK. I don’t know about that since I’m not sure what that necessarily means. But I can assure you that you can watch Law and Order on British television quite literally every night of the week.
Nor do I think idealism is necessarily wrong. It really depends on the idealism. Certainly an idealist who strives for human cooperation, peaceful coexistence and individual rights is vastly different from the idealist who wants racial cleansing and cookie-cutter citizens.
Nor do I think Americans are necessarily more idealistic than Europeans. Europeans still have this undying faith in the omnipotent, benevolent state that will take care of them. They are still serfs relying on the kindness of the local princes and lords. That is very idealistic -- maybe not realistic but definitely idealistic.
Religion can be idealistic. But it is idealism without a connection to reality. And the French are not particularly religious. They don’t particularly go for god but they do believe in the Devil -- I think they call it America.
Maybe once you people have all given up your hateful and violent religons you will see the one peaceful one...Pastafarianism. thats right not one war has ever been fought in the name of Flying Spaghetti Monster, He does not want anyone to be killed in his name. We Pastsfarians never try to push our religon on to others we only say the word and help you learn more, for thoses who want to learn more about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and I recommend you do please visit venganza.org
I saw this article in the Baptist messanger that comes out weekly. My husband and I have seen this first hand how very few young people are still in churches like the baptist. We have recently switched and are attending a Unitarian Church and were pleasantly surprised to see how many young people were attending.
Excellent blog by the way. I have you bookmarked and wil keep checking back to read more.
Thanks!!
Oklahomabooklady
Thanks Kathy: An old friend of mine who was trained at Moody Bible Institute recently told me he now considers himself a unitarian/universalist as well. And, of course, I made the move even a little further -- from Bible college to atheism and have never looked back.
Excellent post CLS, well-expressed and linked. As an ex-conservative Christian I find your thesis - that the United States is about to enter the post-Christian phrase of intellectual development - valid, even poignant. I can only hope it proves true. I'm adding you to my political blogroll - keep up the good posts!
jesus loves you.
thats right jesus loves all of you! (: there is really no reason for us to be in a post-christian era at all! if humanism was not here and we were not all so vain and self-absorbed we would realize how much we are hardening others hearts especially our own. i am only 15 and i know more truth than many adults. i dont mean to come off as righteous or better than anyone but if you can put so much faith in science and believe the words of evolutionists than how hard is it to trust that there is a higher power. GOD. he loves you and wants to help you. its not that hard to understand. of course we are only human and there is no way our mind can understand everything about god and what he has planned for us. but what do you have to lose? even if you are a strong aethiest...what are you accomplishing by causing friction or arguements? cant we all just...try?
Anonymous: At 15 I too believed in god but i grew up. The arguments for god are irrational and, in the Christian case, contradictory. But I assume you have no idea what the debate is. After all at 15 years old one tends to know everything. Most of the rest of your life is then spent figuring out precisely how much you don't know.
For the record I should note that both of the last two posting from "anonymous" were from the same person from the same IP address.
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