Amen, Bishop. Amen.
The minister of my independent liberal church has decided to stop signing marriage licenses after performing ceremonies. If the state won't recognize all marriages, he's not willing to be an agent of the state.
When I read the first line -- "in the past four years, I have married six people" -- I thought this was going to be a post about Big Love.
I was ordained last year to marry my brother and his wife, who wanted a God-free ceremony.
I was surprised by the negative reactions of some people to the idea of me being a minister and the lack of religion at the wedding.
But more than anyone, our Grandma had a very hard time with this.
My brother and sister-in-law compromised by allowing her to give a "non-religious blessing" to them and their son, who was 6 months at the time.
Grandma walks up, takes out a vial of holy water (where had she been hiding it?) and basically baptizes the kid.
There's a great picture of my shocked face and my brother laughing.
I’ve been following your blog since I saw your lovely home on Design*Sponge. I am a fellow Detroiter, and am very jealous that you live in those fabulous Mies Van der Rohe town-homes. Anyway, you are absolutely correct. I have always been a bit miffed that in the U.S. we continue to tie the legal state of marriage to the religious state of marriage. They should be separate. Any couple in a relationship of care and economic interdependence should have the opportunity for legal recognition. The church ceremony should be performed separately, and have nothing to do with that legal recognition. This is how they do it in France, and it makes perfect sense. Leave it to the churches to decide if they think that gay marriage is morally correct; the state should not get mixed up in religious questions of marriage.
Here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, any fool can be granted the authority to perform marriages for a single day, so I had a law school classmate perform the honors on my big day. He did a fine job, and to date, my wedding is the only one I've attended in which feoffment with livery of seisin has been mentioned.
On the other hand, in Massachusetts, we also let the gays get hitched so, you know, the whole institution is in tatters and we're all going to hell.
I, too, thought this was going to be a post about polygamy and incest.
you can imagine my disappointment.
I'm such a tease.
Wow. I thought we were talking polygamy too. I wish we'd known you were in the sideline business of marrying people, Dutch; you would have been a vast improvement on the Lutheran minister who gave a lengthy and impassioned sermon about the man being the head of the woman as God is the head of the church during my wedding.
Half a BOX of Chablis. Bumwines: They just taste better.
My husband and I (also Detroiters!) were married in November by a friend of ours, who happens to be a Buddhist priest.
After I walked up the aisle, accompanied by my father, the priest said to me, "You didn't happen to bring a copy of your vows, did you?"
Of course I wasn't carrying an extra copy of the vows (which we had spent MONTHS writing ourselves, just so that we could say exactly what we wanted to say). So he just said he would "wing it", and not very well, mind you.
He must have been nervous...but still...a huge disappointment for us.
It isn't God who calls that love a sin, it is the narrow-minded people who claim to speak in God's name that call that love a sin.
Forgive me. I'm feeling cynical today. My denomination, which I thought was fairly progressive among Christian denominations, just removed a pastor (who, by all accounts is an excellent pastor) from its roster because he is in a committed, monogamous relationship with another man.
I can't wrap my mind around God being OK with that.
Okay, I was going to say what Sheryl said, but she did. We Catholics believe the Bible was written not by God but by men under the hand of God, and like any other human they let their own biases and issues creep in. The passage in Ephesians referred to by Molly Wade Chase above is a good example.
Straight people have done enough to demean marriage and by that I certainly don't mean keeping God out of their ceremonies (I'd certainly rather see someone who isn't religious have a nonreligious ceremony than profess a faith they do not have to please someone else or because they wanted to use a church as their "stage set"). I don't understand families who think it's their place to get upset about how a couple chooses to mark their committment to each other. Faith, or lack thereof, is enormously personal and a matter of conscience. I chose a Catholic wedding because of growing up in the church and finding meaning in their sense of ritual. Had my Catholic family tried to pressure me into one I would have bolted.
Amyinmotown somehow posted my comment before I could, particularly the bit about what straight couple have done to demean marriage for ages. True marriage (the union of souls) is an incredible thing and the ability to bring religious faith and Catholic awe into the start of ours was very important to my husband me and the model we grew u in and respect. It makes me sad that others who don't fit the image of "man&wife" but feel the same union don't have the option -everywhere - of making this union happen however they choose. However, I have to say that to dismiss religous faith with "And to this day I don't understand why anyone would worship a God who would decree [homosexual]love a sin" seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Am I dismissing religious faith altogether or simply dismissing worship of a god-figure who reflects mankind's own prejudices?
As a ULC minister, my motto is "will perform your wedding for food."
Cool. Since my daughter got the wrong type of marriage license and the non-denominational officiant at her wedding wasn't qualified to actually do more than preside over what's essentially a Quaker ceremony where the couple marries one another themselves, as a ULC-ordained person I had to marry my daughter.
Still wrapping my head around that one.
Wow, that is taking Ephesians 5 out of context. Which I find most people that openly condemn those that do believe and live it, do to most passages of scripture.
I love your blog, your photos AND your taste in beer! And, by the way, my husband and I were married by a gay judge.
I agree! I agree! My husband and I were married in California by a good friend, who became 'deputy for the day' to do so. We were most concerned about how my man's Grandma and family would accept the outdoors ceremony. Although our service didn't mention god, we invited his Grandma to come to the 'alter' and give us a blessing, as our nod of respect to all of our friend's varied faiths. His complete and LARGE Catholic Michigan family were in attendance, and although surprised by the ceremony, they were fully supportive, and we got more compliments for the brevity and meaning behind our wedding than we'd ever expected. It was the best decision we made!
I am so joining your church - we just drank Anchor Steam this weekend and I'm all about godless ceremonies, so I'm pretty much in already, right? Too bad I'm already married or I'd be tempted to go to Detroit for my wedding. My wedding was a pretty boring, basic non-religious ceremony, but the JP officiating wore a black robe and this wild huge black straw hat, so she looked like some sort of pint-sized witch (she was very short). The hat and robe combo made the whole thing much, much cooler than it might have been.
If Bell's Ale is sacremental, then I just had communion. Delicious communion.
Good post. It's hard to be a post-Calvinist.
I so thought you were opening this post to talk about all the people that you actually married, like, YOU getting married.
Wonderful post. AMEN!
If I were single and gay and engaged I would totally let you marry me and my partner.
I guess I wouldn't even have to be gay.
I already have the Bells. But since I am already married I am just going to drink it instead.
Gosh, I wish I was a Super Christian like Greenpaper. Guess I'll just have to take my chances among the "God is Love" lefties.
One thing the anti-gay "Christian" right will tell you is that oppostiion to homosexuality is iblically based. But Christ himself never said a word about homosexuality as depicted in the Gospels. Hmmmm...
Were I not already married, I'd totally hire you and pay you double your asking price.
Dude, here's one for you:
"Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for valuable cash prizes"
That was from my goofball nerdy undergrad.
That said, I wholeheartedly loved this post. I'm afraid to be full on atheist (see jana's "It's hard to be post-Calvinist" reply) but agree that there's way too much religious fundamentalism for my tastes these days. We've heterosexuals have been screwing marriage up long enough...why not allow gays and lesbians the same joy?
Wow. This proves your arrogance knows no bounds.
Come on Amy... God calls us to be Christ followers and wants us to be bible believing. That is the way I am trying to live. And if that makes you call me names then a Super Christian is exactly what I want to be.
How can you argue with "1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
Dutch, you're just so YOU. If I were your grandmother I'd never stop pinching your cheeks.
I have been drafting an editorial in my head for months about this debate over gay marriage in my state. It counters the "argument" that marriage has always been between a man and a woman.
The nutshell of it is this: find a better stance, as this one simply does not hold up.
Once, voting was only for white men. People with dark skin were not counted as people, much less citizens.
'Blacks' and 'whites' were not allowed to marry.
I could go on and on. Thanks Dutch for allowing me to vent. I say marry anyone who presents to your church-good for you!
First, Tori Spelling. Now, you. Awesome.
i loved this post. thanks be to sweet juniper.
my husband and i got married by a friend we had deputized by the county of san mateo. it meant more to us than any other kind of ceremony could have.
my sister and her husband got married by her former roommate (a ULC ordained minister), who happened to be gay. when he attended the rehearsal dinner with his partner, most of my brother-in-law's heavily catholic family thought the partner's nametag, which read "Michael, officiant's partner", meant fellow reverend or co-priest. we STILL laugh about that to this day.
I spend most of my time being a snarky, jokey, gay Brooklynite with friends of all persuasions, sexual and otherwise. I don't talk much about the other stuff - about how isolating it feels to fervently disagree with the evangelical interpretation of the Bible, but to nonetheless be a 20-something gay Christian. Dutch, thanks for this post. I feel a little less lonely.
MetroDad beat me to it. I open my paper this morning to find Tori Spelling's now a minister and you too? What a cosmic (and/or comic)juxtaposition.
a to the men. also, you are killing two birds with one stone by chasing off all the readers who refuse to question their own beliefs. very clever, dutch, very clever.
Echoing others that it's not God who takes a position on gay marriage (though the Westboro Baptist Church seems to have gotten a direct message...or else they're libeling God), it's the Fundys who think they have all the answers.
I go to a liberal Episcopalian church, and the rector once ended a sermon (about Jesus' disciples chastising an anonymous man who was healing in Jesus' name and then Jesus chastising the disciples for being so presumptious) with this closing line: 'Anytime, and in any aspect of our lives, if we are ever tempted to draw lines regarding who is in and who is out – it is fairly safe to assume that Jesus is standing on the other side of the line.' I very much like to picture Jesus riding atop a giant rainbow float in a Pride Parade, marrying people left and right with the flick of his wrist.
Me neither.
It scares me very much that the people who make the decisions in this country are so close-minded and ill-informed.
Do you do christenings?
In the past four years, I have married six people, including my sister".. what?
You are a bigamist and from Roman Egypt?
I guess we're lucky that the law isn't totally dictated by the bible and still allows fornicators to marry. The wedding industry would disappear.
My problem is with fundamentalists, whether they be on the right, left, Christians, or atheists. Folks so certain they are right are dangerous. That said, I most often hear the label flung from the political left to right, and that's not quite fair.
I've gone to school at BYU and NYU and have met fundamentalists at both institutions intolerant of any point of view other than their own. I can't help but hear some of that fundamentalism in a few of these comments.
I like to think I'm Christian - in the honest sense of the word. A tenebrous Mormon, no less. I personally think Christ was pretty great and think it is a good idea to be like him. The issue of marriage is hard; I am confused by it and don't want to make a statement on it here. But reasonable people must be able to express their disagreement in order to have a discussion.
Dutch, I think a variety of folks are drawn to your blog because they sense honesty. It would be a shame if seekers of honesty become former readers because they feel marginalized. I don't get that from your post, but more from some of the comments. My 2 cents.
Amen!
I just don't understand, when two people love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives caring for each other, how people can't support that.
I also don't understand how the marriage of OTHERS (gay, straight, goat, whatever) could possibly erode my own marriage. It makes no sense.
Greenpaper - you're totally right! You just cannot argue with that.
Just like you can't argue with the logic of “And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation, he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife: her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.”
Cause we should all be sure that when we sell our daughters into slavery, that all is done properly.
Come on. What you're saying is that to be believers, we must accept that the authors of the Bible had not only the inspiration of God but also were perfect themselves - with full foreknowledge of how humanity would evolve over thousands of years. That's bullshit. And it's bullshit that too many people use as a cover for their unkindness and uncharitableness, when kindness and charity are supposed to be the pillars of Christianity. At least that's how I read Jesus' life. Kindness.
Sorry for the long remark Dutch but I hate when people pull out that 1 Cor.
And that was me. I didn't intend to be anonymous.
When my husband and I were married it was just after our province allowed gay marriage. Our marriage license was the new one, not the one where it said "wife" and "husband" but simply "person to be married" (or some such thing, I can't remember the exact wording now). Our marriage commissioner was surprised to see it, ours was the first of the new kind he had seen. It felt exciting and revolutionary and made me happy to think that that year so many more people would be married because now they finally could. Love is grand.
Just to put a capper on the 1 Corinthians thing, my Bible, which is a scholarly study Bible, phrases that verse differently. Instead of "male prostitute" it uses "boy prostitute". It also has a footnote that this referred to young boys who were kept by older men and sold into prostitution, a reprehensible act in any age. It also has a note on "sodomite" that says that this referred to men who had sex with these boys - in other words, pedophiles.
It does not say anything about consensual sex between two adults of the same sex.
And before anyone claims this is a liberal interpretation, this is from a version of the Bible given a Nihil Obstat (free from any doctrinal errors) and Imprimatur (permission to publish) from the Roman Catholic church, where they aren't exactly crazy about homosexual relationships.
And yes, some of their priest and bishops should have paid more attention to that verse.
we too were married by an eminence of the the PULC. the right reverend rabbi billy roberts, now practicing out of asheville, nc. although at the time he was mohawked, tongue-ringed, and don't tell my parents that the marriage he performed actually wasn't recognized as binding by the state of virginia (on the grounds of the boyhood home of thomas jefferson, no less). he was hot off giving his license a test run at the McWedding Chapel he conducted at burning man the week before our nuptials.
so we got married by a JOP in our girlfriend's living room to the delightful sounds of "Nookie." Yep, fred durst walked me down the legal aisle.
dutch, i used to think wood was the most beautiful one in your family. that polaroid? um. y.u.m.
The bible was written thousands of years ago by people who carried the stories thru oral re-telling for thousands of years before even thinking of writing them down. It also was probably written in Aramaic or Hebrew, languages which don't translate well. Who knows what they originally said? Maybe it's like that old joke, when one monk comes across another monk weeping. "What's wrong?" he asks. The first monk just points to the original copy of scripture that they'd been copying off of for centuries. "The word is celebrate", he weeps.
I am a long-time reader but this is my first comment. I have been grappling with what to say since I read your post yesterday. And all I keep coming back to is that God is love and his son Jesus is love. Jesus was the incarnation of love on earth. He spent his life as told through the Bible loving people. He didn't judge or condemn. So, when we look at present day Christianity, instead of getting caught up in the political crap that surrounds us, I think if we want the heart of "religion" or Christianity, we have to look at the gospels, specifically Christ's life. And what I personally take from Jesus' life is that He loved without boundries.
As one-half of the couple that was married by Dutch in New York, I must say that everything went better than great, despite the scrutiny he placed himself under..
Fortunately neither of our families had bible-thumpers (some mormons, but surely there expectations were low), so no stories to share there..
I hope that those of you who read this blog regularly have picked up at least the slightest hint of what we who knew and lived with him in college learned early on: Dutch is the quintessential dramatist. And perfectionist. etc., etc.
That said, we were lucky to get the opportunity to meet and fall in love with this unique man- I'd take him up on his offer to marry you. Relatively speaking, a case of Bells is pretty cheap (we had a keg).
I think one of the hardest things about religion is accepting that because it is a human creation, it will always be flawed. What does it mean to belong to an imperfect faith? That question is one I've grappled with for a long time and I'm comfortable with the fact that I will never have a good answer. I'd rather be part of an imperfect community than try to go it alone religion-wise. But that's just me....
As for marriage, there are good reasons that all marriages should be civil unions and religious weddings should be the perview of churches. But I think that's a long way off - and frankly, as long as people vote for republicans that promise to keep taxes low, gay marriage is dead. In California, we care about the environment but buy SUVs. We say we support gay marriage and then elect Arnold. Talk about an imperfect community.
i have performed two weddings. the last one was last month. i went back and forth a lot about mentioning gay marriage in my "sermon", but decided that i really maybe didn't need to be making possibly controversial political statements in a backyard in virginia, after the wedding march (performed on theremin), and before the pulled pork and beer.
i was ultimately glad about my choice, as the bride's mother told me that the bride's father had been expressly forbidden to talk about politics with anyone or at any time during the festivities, and because the bride's father was clearly taken aback when i mentioned breastfeeding -- i kind of jokingly said, "sorry if that was too much information, sir," and was kind of surprised to discover that it was. (and it's not like i don't know this guy. i've been friends with his daughter forever.) anyway, i guessed, perhaps unfairly, that a man who isn't ready for breastfeeding isn't ready for gay marriage.
i also excised the part of my little speech about britney spears, and focused mainly on the idea that anyone who says that marriage is "just a piece of paper" doesn't know what she's talking about. i also quietly said "shit" when i started to cry, but it was ok because swears are allowed in my church. it went over well, i think, but i still felt kind of bad about participating in a straight ceremony without at least giving a shout-out to my disenfranchised friends.
your sister in the ulc,
My husband's brother married us by way of the ULC ordination. When I told my Grandma (who wasn't invited to the wedding) that Al would be marrying us, she said, "Oh, where does he preach?" I replied, "Well, he works for Suntrust." And she said, "Is that one of those contemporary congregations?"
First of all, I love your site. It's very entertaining and interesting.
Second, I just have to comment on this subject. In 1999, my pastor (Baptist church in MS) refused to marry my fiance and me because of our different "colors" - he is brown (African-American) and I am white. It's funny, as children we sang the song, "Jesus Loves the Little Children," but the church's standpoint (that I grew up in, was a member of) is that we can't love unconditionally, as well. Every person should be allowed to love and marry whomever he/she/gender non-specific chooses.
We married in Florida later that year. We will celebrate our 8th anniversary in November. Oh yeah, and I do not attend church. 
You have your own church? That's so cool. You never cease to amaze me.
And I feel your pain about puking. I used to play in weddings and would puke prior to every single one.
Yeah, hi. Long time listener here (hehe, I mean reader). I was just wondering HOW you got ordained? Reading your post made me realize that's the route we want to take for our wedding. AND since you are just a little too far away for us to rent you I think we may need to make us a minister for our own personal use.
'preciate any info
I thought I would un-lurk and post a quick comment. I love this blog, it's a must read for me twice a week.
darcy, you can go to http://www.ulc.net/ I got myself ordained for fun a few years ago. The certificate hangs proudly next to my husband's "real" university degrees.
Public weddings are generally verboten unless you are both Muslims here, so we were married at British Embassy for the sake of paperwork.
A few months ago we had a "proper wedding" with guests, brides maids, food, etc... Our officiant was our daughters god father, a brilliant omani guy with dreadlocks down to his waist. It was a pretty multicultural and secular affair, with lots of words said about love instead of God. We got around the rules forbidding public weddings by calling it a celebration of marrage. Best of all, our gorgeous infant daughter was able to attend, wearing a gown that matched mine.
Keep up the great blog. We love it over here!
Using some downtime at work to catch up on the blogs I missed on my vacation, I had to comment. This was such a lovely post, it made me cry a bit here at my desk. I'm in the middle of planning my own wedding, where I'm going to marry the love of my life, who happens to be another woman. If Chicago were a little closer to Detroit we'd hire you in a heartbeat.
There are many things that God does or asks of us that we don't understand or even comprehend. That's why he's God and we are his creation. His love is perfect and it's too bad that you question that.
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