Comments for Battle of Ontario....
Considering the DUI I think we should inform the Toronto area real estate agents to keep Mark Bell away from the Distillery District.
Wow. Another soft overpaid forward and goalie that is probably hopefully maybe going to be able to hold down the #1 job. Then again, San Jose ain't Toronto.
You guys did so well with Comrie and Gerber that we wanted to try it out.
I hope San Jose passes on the first rounder this year and holds it till next, because after the Leafs win the cup, our draft pick will be a lot lower.
This is the first and probably only time I can see myself typing this: good move by JF jr. Toskala isn't an overpaid, past-his-prime vet, and he isn't an unproven rookie. He's carried the load in a very competitive West for long stretches at a time. This will make Toronto a much more difficult team to beat. Picking up Bell is basically clearing cap room for San Jose, he won't really be a factor, but he provides depth.
Only thing mitigating total respect: three picks seems like a lot to give up for an un-signed goalie. Picture if he doesn't sign! Still, he protected himself well with all the clauses.
You guys did so well with Comrie and Gerber that we wanted to try it out.
Yeah. It sucked having to watch the Sens play in the Stanley Cup Finals.....
VESA FUCKING TOSKALA
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOO
GO LEAFS GO
Picture if he doesn't sign!
They have all this year to sign him if I understood his contract situation correctly. He signed a 2 year extension in the 2005-2006 season so he has one more year at $2.75.
I think that they can work it out. I wish we had a solid cap number instead of 48-50ish.
Yeah. It sucked having to watch the Sens play in the Stanley Cup Finals.....
Exactly. It DID work out so well and Toskala is miles better than Gerber.
Looks like we traded a goalie with a glovehand problem for one with a stick side weakness.
That'll throw teams off.....
OH GOD I THOUGHT THIS POST WAS A JOKE I'M SO FUCKING HAPPY
Ok, so who's your starter? Got one? Does this really answer any questions or is it Raycroft and one of the other clowns all over again?
The Leafs are already better than Last year, Toskala is a helluva lot better, even in just a backup roll, that Aubin could ever be, and he will play a much bigger roll than JS ever did, and Bell, at his worst will still contribute more than Green or Perrault did.
Toskala is miles better than Gerber
Looking at their career stats, neither have played all that much and their nunbers aren't that much different.
The real question is how Toskala will do when he has to play behind a mediocre defensive team instead of a strong one.
Wow. Another soft overpaid forward and goalie that is probably hopefully maybe going to be able to hold down the #1 job.
No one would consider Bell soft. He is 6'4" and 205lbs and plays a physical game and has had over 100PIM in 4 of his 5 seasons in the NHL. By Senators standards that would make him a tough guy. As for overpaid, it depends. If it is the 11 goal, 21 point guy from last season then yeah, if it is the 25 goal, 48 point player from the previous year, then no. Hartnell only got 22 goals and 39 points and he is making $4.2 million. Bell at under $2.2 million would be a relative bargain. Schaefer is making about the same and he only got 12 goals.
Yeah, and they were so much better last year at, umm 18th than the year before at, umm, 18th.
I'm not going to track down the posts, but they were there.
The Bruins wouldn't take him for 2.25 -- in fact it broke the deal.
A lot of money for an afterthought/liability.
And Schaefer might be one of the most underrated players left on the Sens.
Hartnell only got 22 goals and 39 points and he is making $4.2 million
The real question is how Toskala will do when he has to play behind a mediocre defensive team instead of a strong one.
The Leafs gave up 7th fewest shots. Their defence is strong. Their goaltending was crap.
Career numbers:
Toskala: age:30 115gp, 65-28-10, 2.34, .914, $1.375 million
Gerber: age:32 143gp, 70-46-16, 2.54, .912, $3.7 million
Sorry.....
Hartnell is way overpaid.
I knew you had something else to say DC 
The Bruins wouldn't take him for 2.25 -- in fact it broke the deal.
They also don't have the cap room that the Leafs have.
Like I said, fairly close. Except in salary but that will be rectified as soon as jfj overpays toskala in order to keep him.
And Schaefer might be one of the most underrated players left on the Sens.
He still only got 12 goals.
I knew you had something else to say DC
Ooof.
YEah. Watch what he costs you if he does anything . This looks like it answers questions but it doesn't really.
It's JFJ going through the motions, knowing the fan base will drink whatever kool aid he tells them to.
Looks like we traded a goalie with a glovehand problem for one with a stick side weakness.
That'll throw teams off.....
Most players shoot high glove so maybe it will
Shaeffer is underrated in the 'heart' and 'grit' department in which sens' fans put so much stock.
It's JFJ going through the motions, knowing the fan base will drink whatever kool aid he tells them to.
It's the summer and I am damn thirsty!
mmmm Cherry!
mmmm Cherry!
NO! GRAPE!
Grape is good too.
Sugar, water and purple!
Shaeffer is underrated in the 'heart' and 'grit' department in which sens' fans put so much stock.
That's the 'heart' and 'grit' that allowed him to accumulate one goal in 20 playoff games this past season and 5 goals in 56 career playoff games right?
That's the 'heart' and 'grit' that allowed him to accumulate one goal in 20 playoff games this past season and 5 goals in 56 career playoff games right?
So underrated! How can the Leafs trade for him? 8 Draft picks?
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID...211557&
hubname=
And Roberts is off the market
Shaeffer is underrated in the 'heart' and 'grit' department in which sens' fans put so much stock.
Yeah. Schaeffer's a machine in the third period (fully 75% of his goals came then). When he's not scoring, he's usually trying to beat somebody else on the all time assist and point leaders list.
But yeah, we'll take those kind of guys. You stick with louses like Bell (wait 'till Volchenkov rings him!).
They have all this year to sign him if I understood his contract situation correctly. He signed a 2 year extension in the 2005-2006 season so he has one more year at $2.75.
My mistake.
I'm happy the Leafs got Toskala. There were a few teams looking for a goalie, there was no way the Leafs were gonna toake Gerber, and now that they got one of only maybe two or three of the most attractive options, this increases the chances of Ottawa being able to trade Gerber to Phoenix or LA.
And Roberts is off the market
Thank God it was the pens. My heart stopped thinking it was going to be the Leafs.
I had nightmares the Leafs were going to sign Recci
fuck you haloscan
Booo Hooo. No ex-Leafs for you Ottawa! Roberts stays put. Now try and get yourself Quinn before you start next year just being Ottawa again.
Booo Hooo. No ex-Leafs for you Ottawa! Roberts stays put.
I hear Travis Green is available if Sens fans really want an ex-Leaf.
So when will Murray make some deals? Or does he think getting piss-pumped by the Ducks in five is exactly what you want to start 2007/2008 with?
I hear the draft pick the leafs gave up for Perreault is available.....
I hope Melnyk doesn't fire Murray for his failure to acquire Roberts...
I think the Leafs may have overpaid here and have little faith that Bell will live up to his potential.
If San Jose can't get the man they're after and end up with the Leafs' 2008 pick instead, the price will definitely have been too high.
I also hope any time JFJ talks about building from within everyone quickly and loudly points out that this is the second time in his tenure he's dealt the clubs first and second overall pick in his tenure as GM.
That's the 'heart' and 'grit' that allowed him to accumulate one goal in 20 playoff games this past season and 5 goals in 56 career playoff games right?
And they make fun of us for liking Antropov...
we make fun of you for liking the Leafs...
And they make fun of us for liking Antropov...
Sens fans would have way more fun if he actually played once in a while.....
...we make fun of you for living in TO
Sens fans would have way more fun if he actually played once in a while.....
You're in for a lot of fun this season.
If San Jose can't get the man they're after and end up with the Leafs' 2008 pick instead, the price will definitely have been too high.
I'm not sure I agree. If the Sharks decide against this draft and carry it over, the Leafs keep their 13th pick for 2007.
2008 we have top 10 protection, so the best the Sharks would get is our 11th pick. If Toronto have a great year, San Jose will have to take our 11-th to 30th pick.
Next year might be a better draft though, so maybe the 26th pick is better than this year's 13th.
You're in for a lot of fun this season.
We'll believe that when we see it. Has he reached 20-30-50 for his career yet?
...we make fun of you for living in TO
Ow. That hurts from somebody who lives in the city of fat chicks and tax forms.
Fuck you Chemmy for screwing up the comment window size.....
Wow.
One trade and now all this. I expected some excitement, but this is a little nuts.
Weren't some people excited with the Raycroft deal? I'd rather have Rask and the extra money at this point. Hind-sight is 20-20 or something, so enjoy this I guess.
Murray's first deal of importance probably won't happen until July 1st... unless they can fleece someone big time for Gerber today.
Don't worry gang. The Sens fans here just hate to see Toronto get better. Get used to the bitterness.
Bahahahhahaahahahhahaahha. MARK BELL can't even work (play) in Canada. He has a drunk driving charge that prohibits him from playing in Canada for one more year. Ever notice why all last year he got a groin injury during the Sharks Canadian away games. Bahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhah
One trade and now all this. I expected some excitement, but this is a little nuts.
We haven't had the team do anything for about 3 months. It's been building.
One trade and now all this. I expected some excitement, but this is a little nuts.
Hey, after the misery that was this forum during the Stanley Cup finals, we thought some energy was needed.
We haven't had the team do anything for about 3 months.
More like 3 years but who's counting.....
Notch, if that was true, you'd probably hear something about it.
Bitter? Yikes. It's a little easier to improve a team that didn't make the playoffs.
Just pour ketchup on Sundin's head and you guys would be planning a parade.
Don't get me wrong, I love the enthusiasm you show... and I love ketchup.
The Sens fans here find it amusing when leaf fans refer to their teams injuries as " man games".
...enjoy the parade!
"if that was true, you'd probably hear something about it."
Yeah, the Toronto Media is incompetant, but not that incompetant.
Career stats:
Nik Antropov: age 27 374gp, 78g, 189pts, +57
Mike Fisher: age 27 384gp, 92g, 192pts, +49
I used to be Mark Bell's friend (5 years ago), but still hang out with all his buddies. Just wait and see. Bahahhahahahahhahhahahhaha
Wow! That is my new favourite stat!
DJ: Crushing sens smugness since about 130pm today.
Wow. Another soft overpaid forward...
Gee, removeth footeth from moutheth.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/ne...tory?
id=2810633
No one has ever tried to pass off Fish as a first line player.
I used to be Mark Bell's friend (5 years ago), but still hang out with all his buddies. Just wait and see.
Seriously, if anyone would get a sniff of this it would be the Toronto Media or TSN/Sportsnet.
Nice stats DJ. Numbers don't tell the whole story. If you even hint at the possibility of Antropov being an equal or better player than Mike Fisher... all credibility out the window.
No one has ever tried to pass off Fish as a first line player.
Grasping.
Better yet, don't wait to see. Go back and see if he played one game in Canada (or even crossed the border). Bahahahahhahahahhahahahhahha
Grasping.
Reality.
He played a game in Calgary. Sorry Notch.
If Notch is right, JFJ should be fired for sheer incompetence. Again.
And if you're impresse dby that Muppet, well, that doesn't really surprise me I guess. I didn't realize you wanted a 2 and a half million dollar enforcer.
I have never even heard of someone getting barred entry to Canada because of a DUI, that doesn't even make sense, as long as he isn't driving
Let's do another shall we:
Stajan: age 23, 232gp, 40g, 94pts, +16
Vermette: age 24, 216gp, 47g, 86pts +20
As far as this draft being 'weak', we'll see a few years from now.
It still adds up to JFJ pissing away picks.
I'm just not that excited about this deal. I like the Toskala/Raycroft combo, but I don't like how the team will play in front of them. That is what really needs to be addressed here.
I'd rather see Peca re-signed than having Mark Bell!!!!
Think defence, folks!! DEFENCE!!! This team doesn't do it well, and not even Toskala can lead them to Lord Stanley with the current mess.
Sorry to piss on your parade.
Yeah, Probert was denied entry because of his coke problem but DUI? good luck. 80% of the Southern US wouldn't be able to enter Canada.
Zanstorm, see DJ's post on the Leafs defence. Their problem was goaltending.
When someone gets injured, it is called a criminal conviction. Bahhahahahahhahahahaha
Let's compare playoff numbers of vermette and stajan, shall we?
I didn't realize you wanted a 2 and a half million dollar enforcer.
A 20 goal scorer who breaks people's faces is just a tough hockey player.
I would have preferred you just thanked me for correcting you...
Actually, if I recall correctly, Probert wasn't denied access into Canada, but he would have been denied access back into the U.S. if he left the country. That is why he didn't play in Canada.
Just to be fair.
Playoff stats:
Antropov: 28gp, 2g, 3a, 5pts (career)
Fisher: 20gp, 5g, 5a, 10pts (this year)
69gp, 12g, 11a, 23pts (career)
For those grasping at straws. They are both +1 in their playoff careers.
"Their problem was goaltending."
Wahahaha! TEll me you are being sarcastic!
They are both +1 in their playoff careers.
So they are even.
You can have him Muppet. Boston passed on a steal for a goalie because of it and so would I.
Wahahaha! TEll me you are being sarcastic!
I forgot how awesome Raycroft was in the face of a barrage of shots.
Vermette: 4 playoff goals and 8 playoff points in 34 games in nothing to be excited about.
What's 4 divided by 0 again?
Oh, you were serious.
Yeah, the barrage of shots. THAT is the problem. Good team don't give up those!
You can have him Muppet. Boston passed on a steal for a goalie because of it and so would I.
Where did you get that info from? Hint: Duff doesn't count.
They are both 3rd line centres who spend most their time killing penalties. If Stajan makes the playoffs again, I'm sure those numbers would be comparable too.
Yeah, the barrage of shots. THAT is the problem. Good team don't give up those!
The Leafs don't give up a lot of shots, or were you talking about the Senators?
Trying to compare Vermette and stajan in the only ways that matter breaks mathematics as we know it!
Muppet: did you read the Sportsnet story, or just blow your load when you saw JFJ did something--anything?
TGIF.
Oh, you were serious.
Yeah, the barrage of shots. THAT is the problem. Good team don't give up those!
The second one was sarcastic. Raycroft had the 7th easiest load to handle and he gave up the 25th most goals. Did he have anything to do with that?
Well those stats are indicitive somewhat, but can be skewed by the quality of chances against! hahaha!
You can't win with me, PPP!
I've been searching the internet since Notch brought up the Mark Bell 'Problem' and can't find a damned thing to back it up. Anyone else have any luck?
Let's all clap for the Leafs defence. They allowed fewer shots against than the Senators. They also allowed 47 more goals.
That doesn't matter though. Great work fellas.
jared: Bell played one game in Calgary this year. Maybe he snuck in?
Sweet, the Leafs signed a ninja!
I wonder if Ian White and Mark Bell will share rides to the games.
Let's all clap for the Leafs defence. They allowed fewer shots against than the Senators. They also allowed 47 more goals.
I know at least you've read the fucking thing DJ wrote.
Here's a summary for Zanstorm:
The Leafs gave up the 7th fewest shots. But not just that! They also were in the bottom half in shots against from 6-10 feet out. Wait! It gets better! The Leafs were also in the top 5-10 (it's not too clear) for fewest shots from 11-20 feet out.
And still they gave up the 25th most goals in the NHL.
MARK BELL:
October 19-23rd: Groin injury stated as why he missed three straight games vs. Cal/Edm/Van.
Dec 31 to Jan 06, scratched three straight games vs Dal/Det/CBJ.
Jan 26th/28th: Groin injury stated as reason for missing two games in Edm/Van.
Mar 06-11: Scratched three straight games vs Min/Van/Edm.
It's true, he missed all the games in Canada last year.
Maybe this whole trade is just an RCMP sting to get Bell when he shows up for his paycheck.
If the Leafs get to keep their goalie, it might've been worth it.
Sweet, the Leafs signed a ninja!
I almost spat my water all over the screen!
Maybe this whole trade is just an RCMP sting to get Bell when he shows up for his paycheck.
Knowing the RCMP they'd probably steal the paycheque.
I'm not sure why I'm helping the enemy.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxs...?
gid=2007022403
Note: it was a home game, or there was no way Calgary could've won.
Gee, what the hell are you talking about?
I read the TSN story on the trade. Nowhere does it say that Boston pulled out of a deal because Mark Bell is overpaid.
Show me.
Maybe this whole trade is just an RCMP sting to get Bell when he shows up for his paycheck.
They would charge him with theft.
They would charge him with theft.
They've been tailing Redden all year?
Well that was a fun way to kill an afternoon.
Gone fishin'.....
OHHHHHHH. Here it is Gee. In the sportsnet story!
The Boston Bruins, according to a source, were also heavily involved in trying to land Toskala.
Ya, I can see how you pulled all that out of this...
"They've been tailing Redden all year?"
Nah, they're still to busy working on Heatly's missing persons case
Ok, so it was implied in the 7th paragraph from the end. Maybe -aznd just maybe- I overstated things. Heavens to Betsy, that is so out of character.
Also from the story:
I think every player in the world wants to play in Canada at one point in their careers," said Toskala.
Umm, not Bell. And not in Toronto.
Toskala will revel in the attention and become a Kipper-like revelation. Write that down.
Well that was a fun way to kill an afternoon.
Most fun in a while!
They've been tailing Redden all year?
I thought Redden was more about giving opposing players scoring chances, not stealing them.
Umm, not Bell. And not in Toronto.
Maybe not. But Toronto tried to get him last trade deadline, so he wasn't a charity acquisition for San Jose.
Maybe -aznd just maybe- I overstated things. Heavens to Betsy, that is so out of character.
I am shocked, SHOCKED, to see anyone overstate anything here.
Ah the off-season. Hope springs eternal!
Toskala will revel in the attention and become a Kipper-like revelation. Write that down.
Or at the very least turn Toronto into a 2 goaltender town. It seems to work for some teams. I think Carolina won a cup like that even?!
A suggestion; I have a relative in the US who cannot enter Canada because he has a DUI charge. But Bell is a Canadian citizen, and my relative is not. So that might be the difference.
A suggestion; I have a relative in the US who cannot enter Canada because he has a DUI charge. But Bell is a Canadian citizen, and my relative is not. So that might be the difference.
Hmmm...Stupid Notch! You might have me worried for something that is completely false.
Also consider White also has a DUI and played in both countries last year
YEAH!
but no hit and run charge
Maybe they'll hit each other, and then both run.
White would have been charged but he doesn't do any hitting, just running.
I don't have a DUI.
Just wanted to say that up front.
This has poential to be a good move; Leafs have 6 decent-to-good defencemen. Maybe they need to be coached better, because they looked pretty disorganized last year. But their shots against stats were pretty good, so hopefully Toskala is just what they need.
PS: I'm new here. Hi!
Coaching wasn't the problem. Goaltending was.
Toronto ran around less last year than anytime during the Quinn era. Mind you, Lumme and Berg aren't around anymore either...
welcome to the fun
Hi Akihockey! State your allegiances.
I think it's to Aki Berg.
Yeah, but I think the D is offensively minded; Kabs and Caber in the top ten in points, Colai and White top in rookie scoring, Gill had his best point season, Kubina's a offensive defenceman. Maybe playing actual defensive D, they falter a bit.
Allegiences? Leafs all the way. Lived in Toronto for 13 years, and nowhere else, so I'm not joining the "well, I once killed a hooker in Buffalo, and i've liked the Sabres ever since" winning team bandwagon.
Gill is a defensive defenseman, to call him offensive would be kind of a joke
Well, nowhere else in Canada; I'm 27, not 13.
Excellent, we don't need anymore senadroms here
Hey, the Leafs were 4-0 when Gill scored a goal. Maybe we need him to be more offensive!
I'm not joining the "well, I once killed a hooker in Buffalo, and i've liked the Sabres ever since" winning team bandwagon.
That's the one that bothers me.
Kaberle +3
Mcabe +3
White +8
Kubina +7
Gill +11
Colaiacovo +5
Not bad for a bunch of guys who don't play D very well, and on a team that allowed more goals that it scored.
In comparison, Maszaros was a -15 on a team that was +67 on the year.
Also, Gill is not an offensive forward, and Kubina is known for his defence first, scoring second. If you watched the Leafs play, he was stellar defensively the 2nd half of the year.
This is what bug me about the Toskala trade; when we signed Raycroft, JFJ shouldn't have extended his contract and upped his salary by $1 million. He wasn't strong and we could have cut him loose. If he had played well, we could have upped his salary by a million and extended him. If he had played very well, we could have given him Toskala's 1.3 million of top of that.
I'm not saying that Gill is an offensive defenceman, just that the D core in general seems offensively geared throughout. But the stats you posted do make me wonder what Toskala could pull off here, since our D are all +.
Aki, you are right. That was the worst move. Sure, it might have saved money but better to spend a bit more and be sure before re-signing him.
Thankfully it was just $2M.
It was just $2 mil, and who knows? Maybe he'll improve. Hell, if he improves enough to be worth 2mil over two years, he'd be a tradeable commodity.
PPP, name your source for those stats. I will look into them.
Raycroft didn't have a contract at the time so JFJ had to do something contract-wise. Plus if Raycroft returned to his rookie form we would all be talking about what a steal it is for having a great goaltender for just $2 million. Besides, the Leafs are going to be paying less money to Raycroft and Toskala next nearly any team will be paying their goalies and less than Martin Gerber will make.
Yahoo!'s hockey stats lists all the Leafs top D as + players at years end: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/team...son_2006&
sort=3
Wow. Gill was a team high +11.
I thought Raycroft had one year left on his deal?
Hmmm...maybe you're right.
Nope, he was signed to a new 3 year deal.
Ya, $2M is a nothing too hard to get away from. But why bother? The guy had a great first few months and if he can be pushed by this acquistion, you never know. Maybe he splits the season with Toskala and they make it hard to decide which one gets the reins in the playoffs.
Dreamy, I know...
Does that mean he was set to a UFA? Why did we trade Raask for him then?
He was an RFA, not a UFA.
Cool. Got it.
Zanstorm: http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=597
Great point DJ. We get both for this season for less than Gerber.
Looking forward to seeing how much Emery gets. With his taste in shoes and ugly suits, I'm guessing he'll want a lot.
I just hope Raycroft or Toskala thrives on the competition, and they both don't fold.
Zanstorm: http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/?p=597
I should add that the numbers in that article are not correct. I found an error in my program that ended up counting many PP goals as even strength goals. The general conclusions are the same but the shooting percentages are a bit over inflated. I am planning on posting more analysis hopefully sometime in the not to distant future which will fix this as well as show a bunch of other interesting stuff.
Great point DJ. We get both for this season for less than Gerber.
Looking forward to seeing how much Emery gets. With his taste in shoes and ugly suits, I'm guessing he'll want a lot.
I was thinking Emery would get $4 million a season on a longer term deal (3-5 years) but with his injury/surgery and the Sens cap problems he might end up taking a one or two year deal in the $2.5 to $3 million a season range.
So we have some cap room left, but if we don't trade Mccabe/Kubina, not enough for a 1st-line forward. I think Maurice wanted Williams up next year, so Williams and Bell pad out the roster at this point?
Yahoo! lists Steen, Stajan, and Devereaux as centres. I think Stajan centred their line last year, but what did Steen and Devereaux play?
Chacin of the Jays got a DUI in Florida during spring training this year. The only thing that's stopped him from pitching this year is injury. Teams know how to deal with this sort of thing.
So will that change make the Leafs' defence look better or worse? Is it that big of a change?
Keep in mind that the players under contract aren't necessarily the players that will be on the roster and counting towards the cap.
Plus, I wonder if Kubina/McCabe might not get moved to a team to replenish some picks.
So we have some cap room left, but if we don't trade Mccabe/Kubina, not enough for a 1st-line forward. I think Maurice wanted Williams up next year, so Williams and Bell pad out the roster at this point?
Williams will have a good chance at making the team but he will be competing with Kilger, Devereaux, Pohl, etc. for ice time.
have about $43.5 million committed to 20 players.
Forwards: Sundin, Poni, Antropov, Bell, Wellwood, Tucker, Stajan, Steen, Kilger, Pohl, Devereaux, Belak
Defense: Kaberle, Kubina, McCabe, Colaiacovo, Gill, White
Goaltending: Toskala, Raycroft
Depending on where the cap is they still could have $4-6 million to spend without making any trades to dump salary.
I predict the Leafs trade McCabe for the rights to negotiate with Ryan Smyth leaving Kronwall in the top 6 and adding a top 6 forward AND keeping about $3-5M in cap space.
Wouldn't Williams be in, and Belak benched? Right now I'm thinking Ponikarovsky-Sundin-Antropov
Kilger-Wellwood-Tucker
Steen-Stajan-Devereaux
Bell-Pohl-Williams
Maybe with Bell and Kilger swapped?
hmm, I wonder how much Slava Kozlov would cost.
Hmmm...80 points last year, but none in the playoffs. And he's 35.
Well, as of right now yes, but I expect the Leafs will sign or acquire at least one more quality forward and Belak's role will be 13th forward, 7th defenseman so Williams wouldn't really be competing with him.
As for Bell, I think he might do well on Wellwood's line. He'd certianly add some size which is useful because both Wellwood and Tucker are small (though Tucker doesn't play that way). Plus he has more offensive skill than Kilger and with Wellwood setting him up he could score some goals.
As for Kozlov, bet on him returning to Detroit (replacing Lang who won't be re-signed), though he would definitely be a nice addition to the Leafs. My guess is Kozlov gets $4-5 million a season on a 2 or 3 year deal.
Yeah, Kilger and Bell would probably get switched...Until we trade McCabe for Smytty.
Man, looking around the web, opinions on the Toskala/Bell trade are SPLIT. I've read it's a coup for the Leafs, a coup for San Jose, etc. We're totally going to have to wait and see.
Get a room you guys!
Leafs Suck!!!!!!!1™
Ferguson is lucky because it will take years for the picks to pan out either way.
Sens Swallow!
C'mon JFJ, trade Kubina. I don't mind him at all, but between the cap space we'd free up and the minutes the young guys would get, it'd be the trade of day.
Vokoun to Florida.
Hmmm, here's the funny thing: that douchebag Tim Wharnsby just wrote a blog piece bitching about how JFJ told him nothing was going on and then he signed Antro 6 hours later.
Will he complain that Poile said he wasn't going to trade any players under contract?
Another sell your future for a goalie move, this time by Florida. Two non-playoff teams just got a lot better. Interesting!
Your potential future. Neither team traded any of the young players that they have.
The Leafs still have Pilar too! Trade Kubina AND McCabe!
Interesting that Florida gave up a slightly better package than Toronto (a 1 and two 2s) for Vokoun.
I mean, I'd say Vokoun's a better goalie than Toskala probably, but he's also way more expensive. Interesting, like I said. Poor predators fans.
A propos of nothing, I'm with Aki. Trade Kubina. Defence is the only area the Leafs have depth in and that 5 million bucks would be better served elsewhere. A top six of McCabe, Kabby, Gill, White, Carlo and one of Harrison/Woz/Belak/Pilar seems workable to me.
I have visions of Ryan Smyth PLUS retaining cap flexibility dancing in my head.
McCabe For Smyth! Kubina for Nash!
oh and while I'm at it, White for Crosby!
Interesting that Florida gave up a slightly better package than Toronto (a 1 and two 2s) for Vokoun.
I mean, I'd say Vokoun's a better goalie than Toskala probably, but he's also way more expensive. Interesting, like I said. Poor predators fans.
$4M difference before JFJ dishes out a new contract. Poor Nashville. The team is going to die or get murdered.
White for Pucks!
Well that helped get Friday afternoon here quicker!
Tata!
It's Guiness time!
NO love for Ian White, eh?
I dunno. I mean, he's got to work on his physicality, but he's not a liability in his own end, and he's down right creative on offense.
That give and go play with Sundin (against Florida I think) was beautiful enough that he bought himself at least a one-season grace period for me. I saw that goal coming, like, 20 seconds before it happened, just from the way White had the puck.
Although, we do sort of have a glut of offensive defensemen, for once. There's really not enough PP time to go around.
Holy shit, 194 comments for a draft day trade.
Leaf Nation indeed.
God, I hope that Russian kid doesn't become a superstar.
Toskala and Bell had better work out.
I would have rather had Espisito, that kid is gonna be something.
A lot of teams are going to look stupid for letting Cherepanov go. I can't believe Montreal let Esposito go by!
pete, I liked White and not getting hit isn't a problem because I love Kaberle but he has the habit of just throwing backhands away (and his is terrible) instead of keeping the puck an extra second like Tomas.
The Leafs D was fine last year, the overworked PK...not so much.
Toskala is the next Mark Messier.
Mirtle: "Including last year’s deal that saw Tuukka Rask moved to Boston for Andrew Raycroft, Toronto’s kept just one first-round pick in the past five years (2006, Jiri Tlusty) and has just one player in the system picked higher than 44th position since 2002."
Jiri is going to be a superstar.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/sta....php3?
pid=89369
Toronto gave away many picks in the early 2000's, mostly in aquiring deadline additions. We wanted Brian Leetch, Owen Nolan, etc etc, and now we're paying the price.
When you sell off the future for temporary help in the playoffs it only ever really works out for one team. The one who wins the cup.
I'm quite sure Ottawa fans will wish they had Kaigarodov next season if Comrie doesn't sign back. Maybe even if Comrie does sign back. He was Ottawa's top prospect after all.
Toronto trading two draft picks this season was steep. However when you really think about it, what more could you hope for with your first and second round pick, then a bona fide #1 goaltender and a 2nd line NHL winger capable of 20-25 goals?
Birds in the hand.
I don't think any Sens fans will wish they still had Kaigorodov. I passed on him. All Mucks wanted was a 7th round pick in 2025.
Muppet, while I generally don't like trading picks I don't get how it's a bad move to trade away two picks in a draft that EVERYONE said was weak (was it just me or was every player a project or undersized?) for a guy that had one bad year and a goalie that most of his former team's fans would have rather kept.
I was looking at that 2002 draft today and man did the scouting department do a good job.
Toronto trading two draft picks this season was steep. However when you really think about it, what more could you hope for with your first and second round pick, then a bona fide #1 goaltender and a 2nd line NHL winger capable of 20-25 goals?
It's hard to argue with that logic. But the value of draft picks is always relative to who's in the system. No, draft picks are far from a guarantee of a good player, but it's about choice -- having a lot of types of players, and a lot of options. Unless Pogge is a near-messaianic goaltender, Toronto's prospects are nothing to get excited about.
DJ's analysis of draft picks over on his website is revealing. Things get a lot sketchier after the first round, but first round picks almost always end up on the team in some form, even just as utility players. But contributors, nontheless. Toronto hasn't had a first round pick in five seasons, and just extended that run.
Not to metion that Toskala being a "bona fide #1" is far from certain.
...but first round picks almost always end up on the team in some form, even just as utility players...
We already have our first round picked utility players in Belak and Kilger.
For fun, here are all the players drafted at 13th position from 1992 to 2002, including who drafted them and how many games they've played in the NHL.
1992, Edmonton: Joe Hulbig 55
1993, New Jersey: Denis Pederson 435
1994, Vancouver: Mattias Ohlund 635
1995, Hartford: Jean-Sebastien Giguere 353
1996, Calgary: Derek Morris 636
1997, Chicago: Daniel Cleary 477
1998, Edmonton: Michael Henrich 0
1999, Edmonton: Jani Rita 66
2000, Montreal: Ron Hainsey 167
2001, Edmonton: Ales Hemsky 275
2002, Washington: Alexander Semin 129
You win some you lose some. I will take Toskala. He's young, he's good, and he definitely won't end up like Jani Rita (but he COULD end up like Giguere).
Like I said, it's not about the individual qualities of a single player, it's about affording your team the flexibility and choice of having a healthy and diverse stable players. We've seen all kinds of good players stagnate on one team and do well on another because of how their teammates compliment them. It's up to a GM to ensure that there is enough NHL-ready talent at a coach's disposal to put together a winning formula. I'm not taking issue with this particular decision to include a first rounder for Toskala (who I like, and think will do well, but it's far from a lock). I'm criticizing the trend. First rounders are valuable precisely because they almost ensure a player who plays at an NHL level.
Here's DJ's chart:
http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/
im...aftanalysis.jpg
It's not a matter of having the best NHL player, because you're right - you win some, you lose some. It's a matter of having enough NHL-quality players, period.
Conrad, if this deal came next year I'd be a lot more broken up.
As for Pogge, he can be messianic but he doesn't have to be. The Leafs can fill that hole in a number of ways besides developing their own goalie. I'd prefer if they did but it's a one player position compared to defence or forwards where you need to develop multiple players.
Basically the goaltending issue was solved for 2 picks in the weakest draft in over 5 years and a 4th round pick in two years. With the Leafs depth at defence hopefully they can move some guys going forward to re-stock some picks but worrying about a lack of picks going forward doesn't make sense until the next draft is done.
Whether I'd want to be in Toronto's position, with a talented goalie who's never been a #1 before, for only one season before he's able to test the UFA waters, or Edmonton's, with three first round picks...I'm just saying, Edmonton's prospects in the next few years are healthier than Toronto's.
worrying about a lack of picks going forward doesn't make sense until the next draft is done.
It's not the lack of picks going forward that anyone should worry about. It's that Toronto doesn't have first rounders in their system going back five years, either.
If 2002 had not worked so well then it would be more worrying.
As for the Oilers, the #3 first round picks could end up doing nothing (especially the ones not called Sam Gagner) and leaves them with a crappy team AND hoping that their picks come through.
Looking at the Leafs current roster, they have the benefit of time especially with any defensive prospects. They can pick up players in the next two drafts AND give them time to develop on the Marlies.
Foward-wise, the Leafs will have the money to nab a #1 guy after Sundin leaves while having a stable of players (Wellwood, Steen, Stajan, Pohl, Antro, Pony, Bell) that can occupy, hopefully, at least one spot on the top line and the second and third lines leaving the bottom line to be filled out. And that's while Tlusty and Kulemin get ready for the NHL. Again, if the team uses it's money wisely it can plug the gaps and use it's current crop of youngsters. The situation is not as dire as those assholes Cox and Simmons would have everyone believe.
All good points. My point, however, was that that may be the sole scenario upon which Toronto depends. There aren't alternative contingency plans because there's only a few guys. No flexibility. I'm being a broken record now, but you can't say "it doesn't matter that they didn't draft because drafts are no sure thing" and then suppose a scenario in which all the current prospects NEED to make the team. You're right, it's not a sure thing, which is why you need as many prospects, and first rounders specifically, as possible.
Having said that, the Leafs are a better team this year. Enjoy it while it lasts, because next year it'll cost $4M to keep Toskala and Sundin will be one year closer to retiring.
I'm being a broken record now, but you can't say "it doesn't matter that they didn't draft because drafts are no sure thing" and then suppose a scenario in which all the current prospects NEED to make the team.
I get what you are saying but I am talking about prospects that have already made the team not ones that we are hoping to make the team. The Leafs still have top-end prospects in Tlusty, Kulemin, and Stralman.
And, at the same time, you can't discount the fact that draft picks might not just flame out but they could develop into less than the parts that they are traded for.
but I am talking about prospects that have already made the team not ones that we are hoping to make the team.
We're talking about the same players. I'm saying that they're on the team, they NEED to be on the team, because there are no other options. If Toronto had a contingency plan, they might not even make the team. And if Tlusty, Kulemin or Stralman don't work for whatever reason, there aren't many more options. The Sens are in the same boat, but at least it's because they're placed so high in the regular season they've had shitty picks.
White is the only one that will get squeezed out by the other options. I guess that you can say that maybe they would have drafted other players that would have displaced the current crop but the ones with the team are quality enough to be there on merit.
Plus, they are still improving.
And if Tlusty, Kulemin or Stralman don't work for whatever reason, there aren't many more options.
They will work out!
don't forget Pogge, he's the next Pat Roy
Having said that, the Leafs are a better team this year. Enjoy it while it lasts, because next year it'll cost $4M to keep Toskala and Sundin will be one year closer to retiring.
First off -- I'll believe that when I see it. Secondly, it's June. Toskala may or may not be a decent goalie in TO (my guess is he fares about as well as Raycroft did, but now you've got a problem in the room), but any extension he signs will almost certainly reduce JFJ options further come July 1st.
He's said he want and doesn't mind trading for a few players -- given his track record this could be the move that cripples the Leafs for another 3 years. The only question in my mind is which GM can take advantage? Maybe Shero? Maybe Burke? Maybe even Snow?
You're right Gee. Toskala could be another Gerber. But if nothing else, having a strong backup could help the Leafs manage Raycroft better.
As for doubting that the Leafs are better than last year, well, of course you do. I think if you looked at it objectively you'd agree with Conrad.
I haven't really weighed in on Bell, but I don't think there's any reason to think that he would perform better for the Leafs, a decent if unspectacular team in the most high-pressure market in the league, when he couldn't put anything together in San Jose. Expecting anything from him is like looking at Raycroft's terrible numbers from his last year in Boston and hoping he turns it around just 'cause we really want him to. At least Raycroft had a Calder. Bell is like a more likeable Samsonov...team after team seems to fall for his 'potential.'
Just wait. If JFJ trades for anything but young RFAs, he's going to weaken your team. UFA's haven't done well in Toronto, and the combination seems historically to result more often in the new guy not caring ('I had a good season') than in getting the rest of the team to bring it up a level.
http://www.mapleleafs.com/news/n...p?
story_id=2627
All I can say is
Who the fuck is Gamache?
There aren't alternative contingency plans because there's only a few guys. No flexibility
I'm not sure many teams do have the flexibility or depth of draft picks that you speak of. Prove me wrong, but I would say most teams have a handful of excellent prospects and then a bunch of question marks. Toronto have the most draft picks playing on the team for as long as I've been a fan. It's not as bad as you make it sound. Ottawa are possibly worse off than Toronto in the prospect department. So are many teams.
...Toskala may or may not be a decent goalie in TO...
That's true. But he's already made it further than most prospects will ever get in their career, so in staying with the discussion, he was a bird in the hand on draft day. We needed a goaltender in the mix and we got one. It cost us the 13th pick. It could go eaither way, but Toskala is a highly regarded NHL goaltender, and that is good enough for me. If you pay peanuts you get monkey's. If JFJ had kept the picks and signed Weekes or Joseph, would we be better off? Look at what happened when he got the "bargains" Allison and Lindros? I'm glad the price was steep, because he needed to get players with value.
Mark Bell is a question mark. He had a crap year on a great team and that isn't very encouraging. $2M is not chump change either, so hopefully he finds a fit and gets back to the 20 goal mark.
I'm not going to fall all over myself to compliment the guy just because he's a Leaf. The jury is out.
Who the fuck is Gamache?
Somebody to replace Sugolbov on the Marlies is my guess. There Conrad, we have "options" on the farm now. You happy?
Seems like the logical choice, barring a trade, is to aim for Jason Blake.
I don't know who Gamache is, but he was -9 after 18 games (and presumably not ma ny minutes) with the Preds a couple years ago.
Seems like the logical choice, barring a trade, is to aim for Jason Blake.
I like him or Gomez. Of course, Bertuzzi is out there as well although I'm not sure Toronto would be good for him. He gets pretty snarly with the media.
Looks like the Sens are gambling with Emery. Did they seriously only put the qualifying offer on the table for under a million?
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/h..._pricey_offers/
Bertuzzi as a Leaf?
God no..
There's always room for another unibrow in leafland.
I think Blake is going to come cheaper than Gomez, and will fit under the current cap restrictions. Estimates for Blake right now are 4 - 4.5, Gomez, Smyth, etc. all seem to be in the 6 - 7 million dollar range.
I heard this guy might com eout of retirement.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EEltpSMTDPM
I heard this guy might com eout of retirement.
Him and Dougy practically raised me.
There's always room for another unibrow in leafland.
Oi, Kaberle seprated his brows two years ago!
Looks like the Sens are gambling with Emery. Did they seriously only put the qualifying offer on the table for under a million?
Dude just had surgery. Probably want to wait a couple of days, get a prognosis. In the meantime, I think they need to make at least the qualifying offer before barganing begins to be able to negotiate for an extension.
Less obviously, I think they're betting on an offer sheet from another team. They'll take it from there - match it or walk. No sense in overcompensating with a huge deal now.
Ottawa are possibly worse off than Toronto in the prospect department. So are many teams.
I think they are. They got to where they are now from being terrible for so long, not doing huge trades, slowly building under Jaques Martin, became playoff regulars, and now they're seeing the result catching up with them. The test will be how they respond in the next few years, if the teams sucks again -- do they do the responsible thing and rebuild, or take the 'this better work' approach of betting it all on a few key players at the expense of their prospects.
Who the fuck is Gamache?
Somebody to replace Sugolbov on the Marlies is my guess. There Conrad, we have "options" on the farm now. You happy?
He might click with someone where he didn't before, s'all. That's how it works - trial and error and best guesses. There are few players you can plunk on any team, in any system and they perform. I don't think JF gets that.
Bertuzzi takes bad penalties and is lazy defensively. The Leafs already have Tucker.
The Sens don't have much in the way of prospects, but the Leafs would trade any young player they have for Ray Emery. (still!)
[i]Looks like the Sens are gambling with Emery. Did they seriously only put the qualifying offer on the table for under a million?[/i]
A qualifying offer is just a formality and the raise due to a player is a pre-determined rate.
In order to retain the player's rights and be entitled to compensation in the event he signs an offer sheet with another club, teams must offer RFAs earning more than $600,001 a 5% raise.
Emery will sign for more. Much, much more.
Yeah, everyone seems to be making a big deal that the sens only made him a qualifying offer. That's what every team would have done because THEY HAD TO DO IT.
People should learn how hockey free agency works! I'm reading the CBA as we speak.
That's what every team would have done because THEY HAD TO DO IT.
No, they could have signed him to a deal before he can get offer sheets and before comparable goalies get contracts.
Yes PPP, but since they didn't get a deal done in the time given, they have to give the offer.
Remember, the Sens have had a much shorter off-season than other teams, not to mention their GM was replaced which causes a few things to get delayed.
I love not making the playoffs, it gives me lots of breathing room between the end of the regular season and July 1st.
He might click with someone where he didn't before, s'all. That's how it works...
Conrad, I was kidding. This guy is nothing more than some Marlies filler. Sure, him and Tyson Nash could find their way back to the big league, but it's doubtful.
That's what every team would have done because THEY HAD TO DO IT.
Not true. They could have offered him a big long term contract at any time. The 5% raise kicked in yesterday, but they didn't have to wait for all this to happen.
Either Murray is waiting for another team to set the price on Emery, or he 100% doesn't believe any offer sheets will come in. If no other offers come in, Murray has the ball in his hands as far as negotiating a new deal. Or, of course, there is Arbitration. Maybe not a good idea.
Remember, the Sens have had a much shorter off-season than other teams
That 9 day layoff provided ample time for doctors to start Muckler's heart so he could make some phone calls to Emery's agent.
I'm tired of our guys getting robbed blind by Emery. I hope he doesn't return to the Northeast division.
We're assuming that there are going to be a lot of teams ready to give up three draft picks for the privilege of signing a $4M goalie who's only played two seasons and is coming off of surgury. I love Emery, but I don't think Murray is being unreasonable to wait and see what Emery is offered instead of overcompensating now and giving him too much. If around $4M is worth it to re-sign him, and no team will offer him more than that without having to give up more draft picks than it desirable, then what's the harm in waiting to see? Worse case scenario is you pay him market value.
Commenting by HaloScan
