Comments for Battle of Ontario....
Leaf fans:
All of the gloating, laughing, and pointing goes in here.
sens fans:
Take notes because someday you might get to do this to us.
Oh yeah, Pens fans:
Have at it but keep it respectful. And literate. Don doesn't have all night to delete comments.
lol! Thats all folks! As much as I love the Sens, that was a dismal year for the reds. ALMOST as bad as the Leafs. PPP, love the poem. Honestly. Not too braggish. Smart. 
* Gold star for you!
Thanks Infekt. I had a limerick too but I couldn't rhyme anything with coach...
Holy crap, I just got one!
There was once a man from Canada
He bought a team in Kanata
he fired his coach
his first goalie was a roach
And they once again won nada.
Ooooo.. Now you is pushin' it.
First of the phone calls...
Damn Leaf fans.
First of the phone calls...
Damn Leaf fans.
Ah the phone calls. That reminds me...off to call the poor crushed souls now.
It was great to see Foligno, Lee and CODY FUCKING BASS™ get many of the late minutes.
I have Team 1200 on in the background. Did I hear it right that they decided the play of the game was Daniel Alfredsson shaking hands with the referees? I know the Senators didn't play well but yikes, that is really grasping at straws?
I am quite impressed by your rhymes, P3. If this place turns into a slam poetry joint I'll have you to blame...
I have to admit Pensblog cracked me the hell up and lightened my mood. I would caution people against thinking the kids are due for a deep run, however. The next team they face might actually have a top line capable of scoring a goal or two.
So...um...Go Habs? If for no other reason than to further antogonize Leaf fans.
Don, I never pick up the phone on a night like this.
Of course, they all have facebook now...so there's really no escape.
SLC, that's the other set of phone calls I'm avoiding, so no...
FTW: I'm totally down with a Nashville-Dallas final if anyone else is.
As for the east, they can all perish in a horrible fiery death.
I can see myself cheering for the Habs I think.
Calgary and SJ in the West for me.
Yes Erin, you have been in a bad mood:
http://theuniversalcynic.blogspot.com/
And we love it.
I want SJ to lose just so Sens Fans can point to a bigger flameout.
Go Wings.
(Meanwhile, at an undisclosed location...)
Mr. Quinn, there's somebody named "Eugene" on line three. He says it's urgent.
How about this one.
One evening, at Scotiabank Place
The Sens lost their brief playoff race
And from the boy, Sidney
The punch in the kidney
So now they've got egg on their face.
Some positives from the Sens tonight:
1) Brian Lee - franchise defenseman of the future. Calder Trophy next year
2) Cody Bass - young and doesn't give a shit who he's against, will not be intimidated
3) Alfie - plays when severely injured to try to help his team (I'd knock Mats for not playing when his team was on the verge of the post season, but that was actually a move to help the team)
4) We'll now get to see a resolution to this goalie shit (PPP - change your line to "his first goalie smoked a roach" and we're on the right track)
5) It can't get worse than that next year. Missing the playoffs would be better than that
6) We can now join together and wish doom upon the Habs.
and, ladies (leaf fans) and gentlemen (sens fans), the *MOST IMPORTANT POSITIVE™*:
GOOD FUCKING RIDDANCE TO ASSHAT REDDEN
Or, in my catchphrase of the year: Good Reddence!!!!!
Fuck, THM is the Anonymous asshat above.
What's going on in here?
P.S. J.R. on the air for 4.5 hours -- over or under? Get your action down now.
It can't get worse than that next year. Missing the playoffs would be better than that
I disagree. I think.
Bye Reds. It's been real. Good luck.
Maybe Murray'll send your new team a couple of familiar faces.
Pittsburgh is going to get the shock of their life when they play a team who brings the body for the first six periods.
Anyone know Redden's address?
Just asking out of curiosity.... really...
If there's anyone out in Kanata reading this, head over to O'Connors and poison ALL of the beer that those lazy fuckheads are going to drink.
I'm feeling bad for Redden after what I just wrote. Anyone care to join me in a tribute sing-a-long?
Let's start with this:
Na, na, naaa, na
Na, na, naaaaaa, na
.....
Ok. So lets do the math here.
Leafs gone
+
Sens gone
-
Binghampton
=
Marlies
Yes, the Leafs are still in the playoffs, in a way. And wouldn't you know it, Tlusty with the game winner tonight at the Ricoh. Leaf Nation, you still have something to cheer for! But since about 1,000 people went to the game, I will go out on a limb and say that most of you didn't notice.
As far as the Sens loss, when me and the future Mrs Muppet got home from a show and I saw the Pens/Sens final on the ticker I went from instant joy to actually feeling sorry for some of you around here. Damn, I can't fully revel in your agony. I've been there too many times, too fucking often, myself.
It's one thing to lose in the finals, but swept in the first round? I won't dance on your shallow grave.
This open heart will close fast, but in this moment of weakness I say "keep your chin up - it's just hockey, after all, and there's always next year."
Well, that sucked.
What the hell happened to my team?
What the hell happened to my team?
Literally everything that Leaf fans wished and hoped would happen came true.
How come that shit doesn't work for us?
So, on top of the draft irony, we have the irony of sens fans - because the core of the team is signed long-term - having to get excited over the summer by signings of third and fourth liners or unproven kids from the minors.
Oh, and before you guys mention how awesome Foligno, Lee, and Bass played please look up the career stats of one Lonny Bohonos and one Alyn McCauley.
Yeah, but PPP, Foligno, Lee and Bass play for the Sens. Remember: Toronto is the career killer!
Leafs gone
+
Sens gone
-
Binghampton
=
Marlies
Yes, well, when your NHL calibre (ahahhaha) players excel in the AHL, uh.... fuck... I've got the "day after nothings"
I would, at this time, like to send out my condolences to PPP for having to watch his real favourite team get swept last night. The charade is over, PPP. Reach out for the hug that you need. Mr. Zero has his arms stretched for you.
get excited over the summer by signings of third and fourth liners or unproven kids from the minors.
Fair enough but I think everyone knows that Murray will be looking to fill these spots with the types of players Sens Fans have been clamouring for for years. Fuck you Muckler.
Alyn McCauley
Perhaps if Pat Quinn was a coach who didn't need to hide behind a chequebook.....
Foligno, Lee and Bass = Pohl, Newbury and White.
Neither team have a Malkin of a Phaneuf on the horizon, lets face it. Pogge is the highest ranked prospect on either team at 50th in the NHL.
I like Toronto's chances of upping that after this draft though. Hopefully Fletcher has a few more trades in place to get even more picks and prospects for June 21st.
I would, at this time, like to send out my condolences to PPP for having to watch his real favourite team get swept last night. The charade is over, PPP. Reach out for the hug that you need. Mr. Zero has his arms stretched for you.
Ad hominem attacks. The final refuge of the scoundrel!
Pogge is the highest ranked prospect on either team at 50th in the NHL.
On what ranking scheme?
Hopefully Fletcher has a few more trades in place to get even more picks and prospects for June 21st.
I hear he's interested in Heatzza. Or maybe he'll sign Redden and put him on a line with McCabe.
If there was any doubt that PPP hates the Sens right through to his bone marrow, his posts these last few weeks should have set the record straight.
Me? I feel a like a chapter has passed in my life. Why hate the Sens anymore? They can't beat my team in the playoffs, they can't win a cup, and now with three of the top 10 scorers in the NHL they can't win a playoff game. I feel sorry that a team with so many chances and so much talent in and out of the line-up for the last 10 years managed to completely fuck it up.
Here's to rebuilding. Together.
Muppet, you sound like a cult leader - trying to convince prey of their shit lives and offering a hand of friendship. WTF - Scientology really taking a hold in T.O.
Hang onto your wallets everyone!!
Well I say good job by the Sens fans last night. Minus a few inebraited ladys, everyone was pretty classy on the loss. Had a bunch of Fans saying congrats on the win and good luck. Though the Toronto fans out front chanting "Mark Bell, Mark bell" weren't so warmly received.
The Sens have an interesting summer ahead of them. Who do you let go, some are obvious (Redden, Commodore) but do you deal one of the big three, most likely Spezza, to get some more depth on defense and a few prospects/draft picks?
It's my best buddy the number zero. Good to see you again!
Spezza is no longer Giggles (well, we can still call him that too) but now:
The Human Turnover
Pogge is the highest ranked prospect on either team at 50th in the NHL.
On what ranking scheme?
I heard it on TSN or Sportnset recently, but went searching just now and found this in the top 50 prospects:
TOR. Pogge 23rd
TOR. Kulemin 42nd
OTT. Foligo 49th
See the complete list here, however accurate it might be....
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hoc...p_50_prospects/
Muppet, you sound like a cult leader - trying to convince prey of their shit lives and offering a hand of friendship.
There certainly is a delicious element of evil to it isn't there?
Hockey's Future is supposed to be pretty good. Although they rank the Leafs as an organization in 19th so they could also be full of crap.
So leaf fans who do I cheer for now? This is all new to me.
Go with the Caps or the Predators.
No history, low chance of meeting their fans in Ontario, exciting players.
Of course, if Radek Bonk gets his name on a cup I may have to just shoot myself.
Here's to rebuilding. Together.
Amen to that.
So, what does each team do?
If I'm Fletcher / whoever takes over, I seriously consider buyouts and adopting the Caps' system of letting a young core develop over time with a few strategic additions. I don't think anyone who refused to waive their no trade will do so this summer, so for the most part this team just needs to resist the urge to spend on the UFA market like crazy.
As for Ottawa, do you think Murray should consider trading Spezza before his no trade clause kicks in in the summer? I think Heatley had earned his right to stay, playing independently of Spezza for long periods of time, but Spezz still tries to deke out entire teams on the blue line and is a turnover machine at the worst times of year. He's also a marquee player and had a career high in points this year, so the return would be huge. Maybe get a solid 50 point player and a couple of draft picks / prospects for him?
Or maybe he'll sign Redden and put him on a line with McCabe.
Jesus Christ...could you imagine it? I need a shower.
Also, considering half of that hockey's future prospect list are already in the NHL at this point, I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Amongst the post-loss analysis, I've heard a lot of thoughts on why the Sens lost, but nothing about what appears to me to be the most obvious - the inability to score.
Murray focused on grit, size and playoff experience. Contrast that with Muckler focusing on speed, skill and goal scoring ability.
Instead of Corvo, we get Commodore. Lapointe instead of Saprykin. Donovan instead of Schaeffer. In all cases, the Sens gave up scoring ability and clearly didn't get enough in return.
The only move that worked out was Stillman for Eaves, the only move where we got a guy who can score. But even that move pales in comparsion to Comrie for Kaigorodov.
The irony is the Sens were swept by a team that was built almost exclusively on speed, skill and goal scoring ability. In fact, that is largely true of all the series in the East so far - Montreal's offence outplaying Boston's defensive style, the Rangers overpowering Brodeur and NJ's defence-first approach, Washington not having the scoring depth beyond Ovechkin to match Philly.
Now I do think there is something to the "Emery is cancer" meme, as well as the issue of potential drug use by a couple of the players. Clearly, something wasn't right in that locker room for most of this year.
But my hope is that Murray takes a more balanced approach to player acquisition with his available cap room this summer. Grit is great, but at least get some guys who can score.
Also, considering half of that hockey's future prospect list are already in the NHL at this point, I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Mahybe hasn't been updated since the fall. If it was, certainly Stralman would be higher than Kulemin, one would think...
"Or maybe he'll sign Redden and put him on a line with McCabe."
The second most horrifying defensive combination right after Woznewski and Woznewski.
If Fletcher can trade McCabe for a 2nd round pick, a prospect, and a conditional draft pick, I'll be happy as hell. A case of Pepsi also works.
I don't think anyone who refused to waive their no trade will do so this summer, so for the most part this team just needs to resist the urge to spend on the UFA market like crazy.
Agreed, sort of. The Leafs need to chillax with the UFAs mainly because the quality is very poor this year. There is no short term cure out there. Move who you can for picks and prospects, and maybe sign some depth UFAs. It's been well publicized that Kubina's NTC is void this summer, and I still think McCabe would leave to certain locales. He can't be enjoying this.
Kaberle stays. Bring back Sundin for another 1 year deal if they want.
Basically, keep the wheel steady and try to get slightly better next year.
But. Don't. Swing. For the fences.
But. Don't. Swing. For the fences.
That should be on the PA at 40 Bay Street on a loop.
I don't see how they get Sundin back.
they ask him.
Want to give him a NMC again?
... Because he's obviously not signing without one. Even more so without knowing which GM he'll be trusting.
If I'm Murray, I print a giant poster that says "play responsible", and then:
1) Try to trade Meszaros for a pick or two. He's a young D with lots of room for potential, he's been to the finals and played big minutes. Trade him now while he has value.
2) Try and re-sign Kelly. He's far more valuable than he gets credit for.
3) If we can't re-sign Vermette for less than $2M, trade him for picks. His numbers are good, and he could play a second line role on a lot of teams, but we want defensively responsible guys.
4) I'd take a chance on Redden, considering he used to be an elite D, but not for more than $2.5M.
5) Test the market for Spezza. This isn't a sure thing, but if Ottawa can get a solid 25 goal / 50 point player and some picks for him (and they should at least get that for a playmaker with potential to be in the top ten in scoring for the next ten years), the I'd consider it.
6) Re-sign Lapointe for about thirty bucks.
7) Re-sign McCammond.
Cut Neil loose.
9) Let Donovan go.
10) Richardson is gone.
11) Re-sign Commodore, but restrict him to a third pairing D.
12) Re-sign Stillman for $2M max.
13) Sign a second line D if possible. Campbell will be expensive, so maybe Liles, Hejda, Hainsy, or Mara.
14) Look for deals. Will Naslund come cheap? How about Ryder? Hagman. Fedetenko. Aucoin. Sakic would be a coup. Huselius.
15) Goalies... What the hell to do here...? Not a fan of the buyout, as it's millions of dollars spent and getting nothing in return. But I like Emery, and I think he's good value at less than $4M a year. If Los Angeles will take Gerber off our hands for a late pick, I'd do it in the name of a salary dump. And if St. Louis took Lalime after he shit the bed in the playoffs, someone will surely take a look at Gerber for essentially nothing. (And if we can get rid of both of them, I'd take a look at Dan Ellis, Theodore, or Huet if the price is right.)
16) And maybe this is ridiculous, and I don't think he'd come to a smaller town like Ottawa anyway, but...sign Sean Avery.
Reds is gone, Emery's gone.
I'm keeping Vermette and put him in your core guys. I'm keeping Stillman if I can. Other than the core, everyone else is moveable.
Ryder? Absolutely fucking not.
If I'm Toronto:
1) Threaten to make Tucker play in the minors if he doesn't waive his no trade clause. Trade him to Calgary to take Conroy's spot for a 2nd round pick.
2) Same to McCabe. I don't see you getting a roster player, prospect and picks for him, especially at the cap hit he comes with, but a high and low pick isn't unreasonable.
3) Raycroft is worthless. Buy out for cap space. Bring in experience as back up. (Kolzig?)
4) Kubina: gone.
5) Try and get puck movement on the blue line. Someone to work with Kaberle.
6) No one will take Blake at his salary, but with so many years left I'd consider a buy out.
7) If Sundin won't sign for $5M or less with a NTC, or for $6m-$7m without a NTC, then he's not a part of the re-build. TO needs cap space and prospects.
In goal, Gerber was maybe our best player in this series and Elliot'll be ok too.
Given the way Thomas Joseph Osgood etc have been playing, the best strategy for any team might be to get 3-4 guys for like $1-1.5M and then make your best guess in Sept, then Dec, then Feb, etc.
Ottawa should also seriously look at Lalime. He can be had for $1M and has played really well in Chicago.
In goal, Gerber was maybe our best player in this series and Elliot'll be ok too.
Gerber was our best player, but because everyone fucking sucked. His numbers are still bad. He had one outstanding game, three solid ones. I think he has value, which is why we can trade him.
Ryder? Absolutely fucking not.
Why? He had a couple of decent years there. I think he'll bounce back somewhere new. Only if he could be had for cheap, mind you. This same logic extends to Huselius.
I also like Miettinen.
everyone fucking sucked
Amen to that.
Fantasy Sens lineup
Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
Hagman - Fisher - Stillman
Vermette - Kelly - Miettinen
McCammond - Lapointe - Shubert
Phillips - Volchenkov
Liles - Lee
Hainsy or Hejda - Commodore
Theodore
Lalime
Love him or hate him, trading a 24 year old bonafide top-10 scorer for a 50 point player, a few pluggers and/or picks that MIGHT someday be a top-10 scorer is pure folly.
Spezza definitely regressed in the last half of the season but the fact remains 24 year old top 10 scorers do not exactly grow on trees and draft picks are little more than crap shoots. I suspect Sens Fans are best served with the new coach and some new teammates spending time getting Spezza to play smarter and tougher in a Sens uni.
I don't think any of the core guys (signed to 11/12 or beyond) are going anywhere unless something happens off ice. On D, I have to believe Phillips and Anton are safe too.
I suspect Sens Fans are best served with the new coach and some new teammates spending time getting Spezza to play smarter and tougher in a Sens uni.
Yeah, you know what they say about coaches making players tougher and smarter:
The fourth time's the charm!
Hilarious, I caught the tail end of a conversation walking through the office lobby:
"dude, he's a two-time 50 goal scorer"
"yah, and keep hearing Luongo for Spezza, too!!"
The fourth time's the charm!
Isn't it "The forty-third time's the charm"?
I can't believe anyone would want Lapointe back. I thought he was overpaid when he signed for all that jack with the Bruins and anything more than a sixth rounder is overpaid today.
Keep Meszaros - get him a proper mentor.
Keep Donovan - one of the few guys who played up to expectations in the playoffs.
Kelly can go if the price is too high.
Stillman / Commodore keep one if you can get a good price.
Getting rid of Emery and Redden will make the team better right out of the gate.
Love him or hate him, trading a 24 year old bonafide top-10 scorer for a 50 point player, a few pluggers and/or picks that MIGHT someday be a top-10 scorer is pure folly.
Agreed. That's your classic "three quarters for a dollar" trade. Thornton to San Jose redux.
"yah, and keep hearing Luongo for Spezza, too!!"
I heard this too. And with Vancouver not having a GM. How these things even get started, I'll never know.
Agreed. That's your classic "three quarters for a dollar" trade. Thornton to San Jose redux.
Boston wishes it got 3 quarters.
Isn't it "The forty-third time's the charm"?
It's the 42nd. And you have to minus a year for the lockout.
Actually, all I can tell you with any certainty is that it's not the 4th time or the 11th time.
"It's the 42nd. And you have to minus a year for the lockout."
Oh, that makes it much better.
Two others I thought of:
-Chris Neil: I'm sorry, but I fail to see what this guy brings to the team that's so indispensable. An uglier Matt Cooke who disappears or is mercifully benched late in games.
-McGrattan: He's another one of Spezza's old housemates. I wondering if getting Spezza away from his junior buddies might help to "get serious" as Cherry put it. McGrattan never bloody plays, so why keep him around if you're never going to use him?
Jay - couldn't agree more about clearing out McGrattan and Neil. They are both useless in the playoffs when neither one is disciplined (or good) enough to share the ice with the opposition.
joeboo - It's 2 years better because 41 is smaller than 43.
McGratton's value, I think, was in acting as a deterrent for other teams who might otherwise take undue liberties with the star Senator players. Once McGratton proved he could beat guys up if necessary, he didn't need to play anymore.
Is that worth a $500K cap hit? I guess we'll only know if he leaves and Spezza has to start fighting to defend himself.
Neil had similar value, in the McGratton role before McGratton. And for a while, it looked like he might evolve into a more complete player once he no longer had to play the role of enforcer.
But this year he appeared to regress badly, and offered little. No net presence, not enough hits, not enough goals, etc., etc.
Is that worth a $500K cap hit?
Yes. Otherwise the Sens will need to keep on Emery's 3M+ cap hit.
McGratton is completely useless. He isn't a deterrent when you know he isn't going to be on the bench for the better half of the year or at all.
You had Redden and Spezza fighting and not doing to well at it. Did Neil do anything? Was McGratton on the Bench? Did McGratton dress the next game? Bring in a guy who can play hockey and fight (Laraque)
Sens above all need a guy who will change the locker room atmosphere. The guy who will stand up and call the guys out.
Hm... my 2¢:
The top line is the top line, and it's not going to move. Heatley and Spezza both need to learn to play more physical if they hope to be effective. The comparison to Thornton as a parallel seems about right: highly skilled, soft hands, but Joe plays more physically, and can keep the puck protected when he needs to. Heatley and Spezza are not small players (both 6'-3" approx 215) and will become that much more effective if they can create their own time and space. As I expected, Spezza had a career year, and will only increase his numbers if he can keep others off the puck.
Redden & Emery can both go for sure - that's about $10-mil that can be put to much better use.
Keep Vermette - I think he has proven his worth, getting more points than Fisher, and a better +/-. He was one of the best faceoff guys during the past 4 games, and showed more hustle and passion that most of the team.
Neil simply needs to get his game back (well, the whole team needs that). The lack of discipline is a problem the whole team was guilty of, and Neil when he's disciplined is a good grinder, and draws lots of penalties (remember the last post-season?). When working in a system that's clicking, Neil can be very effective.
Stillman would also be valuable to keep around as long as he doesn't cost too much. It would also be nice to keep Kelly, Donovan and McAmmond around, and of course the jack-of-all-positions Schubert. Commodore, Lapointe, Richardson, and Robitaille can all go. Bring Foligno, Bass and Lee up.
Finally, keep Gerber, bring up Elliott, and continue developing Glass. Bingo had a crappy year overall, so it seems both the big team and the farm have some re-thinking to do for next season.
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