![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=7ec019c97f94e488224694d34669b50d&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Let me answer you with a question...
Has the American automobile been the envy of the world in the last 50 years? Does collective bargaining improve the product? Or just muscle the employer for benefits? Having worked in a hospital association for nearly ten years I shudder at the suggestion, Tammy.
The market, absent government intrusion (which is a major factor in your job), would and has, done well for you. Signing bonuses, recruiters hunting you, retention programs, and other memories of my time in healthcare make me think that while everyone has challenges...Texas has it pretty good. Demand is high.
Am I missing something? I work with over 300 nursing and allied health college programs. Seems like lots of nurses coming through there to me.
Just my two cents. Have you been drinking Obama-aide lately?
Bob
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
You are missing plenty, Bob. It is interesting that the stress of a work environment is not felt by those not actually working in the environment.
I remember one night years ago working in an ICU with three clients on ventilators. The supervisor walked in long enough to note it looked like a \"quiet night\".
Yes Bob, you are \"the other guy\".
Tammy
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=0e96fe0687373bff69c826292ac42623&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Texas is a right to work state, as is AZ, CO, FL, and host of others.
Big business runs and controls nurses in these states. Not the nurses, not the the nursing associations and not the state boards of nursing; who conveniently 'take no position' on unionization of RNs.
TX, AZ, CO and all the others will continue to wallow in poor wages, incestual staffing situations, and 1% annual raises until they realize the benefits of union contracts.
It's amazing to see women so violently independant when prounouncing their support of a woman presidential candidate; yet, when it comes to demanding respectable wages and benefits, these same women cower and act like meek mice in a cage.
Nurses are harming themselves like teenagers cutting their wrists: they seem cute and full of life, but their dirty little secrets keep them bleeding their future away behind the closed and isolated doors of the women's profession. Truly harmful to this profession and truly indicative as to why women have a hard time advancing in the working world.
Actually, non-nurses and the rest of the female workforce is being harmed by nursing's constant refusal to be educated. If the largest group of working women in America cannot decide on simple educational and labor fundamentals; why treat them well in the workplace? It's all very simple, but nurses accuse everyone else of 'keeping them down', when in reality nurses are harming women everywhere.
Please don't compare nurses to teachers anymore. Teacher's, although their wages are a bit less, have the guts to demand an entry level 4 year degree to maintain a respectable profession. Nurses will continue to be 'laborers' with poor futue options without an educated workforce. Personally, I'm sick of divorcees, 2nd career people, welfare hogs, and dumbed-down applicants getting into 16-month accelerated RN programs. If you want TX to respect nurses; get the house in order with respectable, educated nurses.
Nurses in right to work states, and the conditions of employment in these locations are so pathetic, that RNs should vote blindly for any union that comes along. I'd vote for Jimmy Hoffa himself; just get union power in place now to correct 30 years of poor wages. Now just imagine what benefits nurses would have if an actual good, decent, and powerful union actually stepped up to the plate to help.
Don't do us any favors being an 'undecided' decider. Come clean with what needs to be done. Confused and isolated nurses like those in Texas don't do any of us favors when they 'can't decide'. Look at your staffing and wages in Texas; if that's not enough to decide on unionization, then please go get more education.
Nurses in MN, CA, NY, OH, WA, OR and many other unionized states know that 14 -19% annual raises are keeping their families stable and their jobs safe. Not much more to say for you TX nurses, other than I hope you wake up and improve your own litter box. Nobody e
You didn't answer my automobile question...
So, it's an \"us\" and \"them\" issue. Ok. Then the patient is the ultimate loser.
And because I haven't \"been there\" I have no clue, right?
Methinks that decisions made on an emotional basis are 99.9% poor.
Your answer to a stressful situation and my ignorance is to unionize a workforce thereby dooming our healthcare system to an even swifter decline?
Sorry, I'm just shocked that even an armadillo republican would go union.
You posed a question. I answered. I guess I could have just said \"sure, let's start'em!\" But if only you know best because you're \"there\", why ask?
Bob: armadillo republicans are big biz idiots with cozy relationships that all hospital admin's love. They wax each other's backs shall we say, with the CEO annual bonuses that, um, do not get passed on to patient care or nurses...
There's no decline in healthcare systems in the union states Bob. Care is carefully administered in safe ways by union protected RNs who value their workplace and feel worthy.
No thanks Bob; keep your CEO bonus, and leave my wages alone. We'll co-exist--you with your fat bonus, and me with my union contract...and the patients get great care.
Americas Nurse
Bob,
Care improves for patients with better R.N. staffing ratios. Infection rates and death rates in hospitals go down with better R.N. staffing ratios. We aren't building inanimate objects like cars, but taking care of beating hearts.
I push narcotics into intravenous fluid all day long and hang vasopressins, treat hearts, and mix up aerosol treatments for piss poor airways. Exhaustion can be a poor companion for such tasks.
Tammy
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=e1fe2818c956a08902702522c4f2ba64&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
My dad was a labor organizer for many years before he passed away. Here's some advice that he would have given your CEO about keeping unions out of your hospital. The best way to keep unions out of his or her hospital is to treat the employees with dignity and respect. Respect means:
Don't exploit your nurses. Stop paying them low wages while you work them to death.
Don't put your staff in the position of having to give substandard patient care because you are too cheap to hire enough staff to work on the patient care units.
Stop telling your staff that the hospital is under financial pressure while you draw in a yearly 6-figure income along with bonuses and other perks.
See, it's easy to keep unions out of hospitals. Management just needs to stop being A-Holes. By the way, Obama Aid is really good. You’ll be sucking it down after the next presidential election. It’s not going to be a good year for the Republicans.
Obama 08!
MJ
Obama 08, ...says it all right there.
Let's just socialize the whole thing folks. Then you'll be valued, pay will go up, oceans will go down, the sick will be healed,...
Make sure you get that union IN PLACE before Obamacare kicks in now...lol
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f75849b&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
I’m not an expert here, and I certainly don’t want to pay more for any service than I have to. But there does seem to be a deficiency in nursing compensations. Nurse Jones’ father knew something about leadership; take good care of the troops, they’ll take good care of you. If you treat them as if they are a problem, don’t expect a great deal of loyalty.
Major medical corporations seem willing to pay a lot of money for some positions; no doubt, the positions they value most. They seem to value hospital administrators, chiefs of staff, and emergency room doctors who earn $30,000 a month; compare that to what an ER nurse makes, and the argument becomes moot.
As colleges graduate more nurses, the situation with nursing salaries can only get worse; the more nurses there are, the less valuable they become. Of course, some of this relates to the fact that nursing colleges are granting nursing degrees to morons (UTPA), causing some doctors to refuse to schedule surgery in the Rio Grande Valley.
As consumers, we should be concerned about medical costs; much of this has to do with providing services to illegal aliens and increasing costs to offset associated losses. The reason “right to work” states get away with paying nurses so little is because they can . . . who among us will pay $90.000 for a hummer if we can get it for half that?
Interestingly, the situation in the Rio Grande Valley also has to do with service to the poor. Check out how many neurosurgeons practice in that area. You will be appalled. But why should they go to an area to practice where many of their surgeries will be gratis and as in some cases, after receiving free care, clients have the gall to sue the surgeon? The working poor sometimes view a lawsuit as the only way to climb the socioeconomic ladder. I have had illegal immigrants in my care threatening to sue the surgeon after a free operation, with little understanding as to how the heck they got into the position they were in, in the first place. Disgusting. Now in America, we do not ration care. So do not in any form or fashion think that the dignity of care for an illegal immigrant is compromised. It is not. But yes, they cost us plenty.
As far as my own area, PACU, we have very skilled R.N. staff, all of us with multiple certifications. Our anesthesiologists demand a high level of professionalism because in the middle of the night they drop their patients off with us and head home to sleep. We can manage any emergency until an inhouse physician arrives, and the anesthesiologist is a phone call away.
Yes, some nursing programs turn out little better than technicians as far as knowlege base. But the BSN programs have several weed out courses along the way. Mine, was statistics. I sweated that one.
Tammy
Did any of you catch the Frontline show \"Sick Around the World\"?
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/models.html
I have 2 cousins who are RNs, one is male. I'm thankful for all who choose the nursing profession, because God knows we aren't all equipped for it.
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, Bob. I've been busy at work. Apparently, your idea of leadership is \"the beatings will continue until morale improves.\" Unions love people like you. Pissed off nurses join unions.
And by the way, get use to saying President Obama. And yes, that says it all.
MJ
And Japanese car companies love unions.
Japanese CEOs aren't over paid, and they go to jail when their company commits a crime.
Let's hear it for the Japanese!
I would never criticize anyone for being disciplined in executive compensation, but saying that to oppose unions is equal to condoning corruption is at best specious.
Respectfully, you make my point though the intent is to counter me. The american auto industry USED to be the envy of the world, as our healthcare is (despite contrary propaganda)... and perhaps both problems contribute...but more government is never the correct answer for improving an economy.
The bottom line is that unionization is a negative factor in macro economics and detracts from the value of goods and services to future generations in exchange for the often overly-aggressive demands of today which (perhaps like the pay of clinton buddy CEO's in the nineties as well) ignore market warnings for restraint.
Nice chatting with you, mom
So Bob, please explain what you mean by being disciplined in executive compensation. It sounds like double speak to me. Are you saying that it's OK for CEOs to cheat and steal from workers, stockholders, and consumers as long as they are slick about it? Unions aren't bringing our country down. Bush and his rich buddies are doing quite well with that, thank you very much. It's not rocket science, Bob. The rich are getting richer while everyone else is getting the shaft. And by the way, what's in your wallet?
Sincerely, Mother
At issue in my mind is that when I retire there will not be anyone to adequately care for me when the time comes. Call me selfish, but with nurses deserting the profession left and right there is the need for market changes.
Nurses are not generally known to be tactical statisticians, so when they get fed up, they just leave.
Importing nurses from third world countries is not the answer. That degrades their own country's capability to care for their people and in a sense, we steal valuable resources from their healthcare sector. What nurse in Nigeria of the Philippines earning substantially less than her American counterpart would not be thrilled to work here? They are thrilled. My hospital has many of them. But what if she is the only nurse serving in a small two room clinic that serves 100,000 people and is enticed to America for the better standard of living? Get the picture?
Tammy
Bob: In the 80's hospitals started a new class of employment for nurses---called nursing prn pools, or 'pool'. That great idea offered nurses a higher wage---great so far Bob---then, they threw in the 'give up your benefits' to get the pool rate! A real kick in the *^*&(.
Millions of seasoned RNs who want to feed their families and send their kids to college; much less have a retirement---oops, sorry, no retirement with the pool status offered, jumped on the pool option to bring home higher wages. Thousands of these nurses are now in their 40's and 50's with NO retirement or medical benefits.
How many CEO's, attorney's, TEACHERS !!! would agree to that Pool system Bob??? It's a great Pox on the profession and its been so common since the 80's that nurses don't realize the incestual damage it does to their future. How many professions do you know of with such a system Bob?
Unions are the only counter to such a tragedy in this profession, and still, nurses are afraid of them in many parts of U.S.--Yikes.
CEO's and hospitals have made lepers out of nurses Bob. They got 'em in the colony where they belong---without benefits or a future....
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=97cccc4c1f4e9316997f069ea3696209&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Sniff sniff...I smell a red herring...
I don't accept your premise Bob.To compare the work of nurses to that of auto workers is more than a little insulting. Not to take anything away from the person putting together Chryslers, but I think we can both agree the ultimate objective of nursing, to provide the best care they can for patients, is a higher one than the ultimate objective of the auto worker, maximizing the amount of their employer's profit.
We can agree on that, right? That human lives are more important than hoarding every last penny possible? Because if we can't, then please just stop reading now and spend the rest of your life as far away from me as possible. I don't want to live in that world.
You're still here...great! I knew you had a spark of humanity in your soul, and I'm glad we can agree that the duty of the nursing profession is to provide the best care they can for the sick.
So I guess you're just a little confused as to the best way for that to happen. Let me help. Did you know,
1)The the risk of death and failure to rescue patients with complications is nearly 30 percent higher in hospitals where nurses' average workload is 8 patients than in hospitals where nurses care for 4 patients?
http://www.rwjf.org/files/resear...hapter%2012.pdf
2) The journal Health Affairs published a study that concluded that increasing the use of RNs and hours of nursing care per patient to the 75th percentile of hospitals, a standard chosen \"based on our judgment that attaining this level of staffing is feasible for most hospitals\" could help to avoid more than 6,700 patient deaths and 4 million days of care each year?
http://content.healthaffairs.org...iteid=healthaff
\"My God!\" Bob must be saying, \"I wouldn't want MY mother to be one of those 6,700 unnecessary deaths!\" If only I had known how vital nurse staffing levels were to the health of our people! What can I do to make this right?\"
Well Bob, it turns out the answer is by supporting those unions you've hated so much until today.
Nurse to patient ratios are an average of 18% higher in the most unionized cities as compared to cities with the lowest levels of nurse unionization. I know you'll agree with me now that that's a good thing.
http://www.iwpr.org/pdf/C363.pdf
The California Nurses Association was instrumental in the passage of AB394, which set mandatory nurse to patient ratios in the state. Which means people who keel over from a heart attack in that liberal loopy land of San Francisco are more likely to survive than residents of blood red states like Mississippi and Alabama.
This is a good thing on many levels.
http://www.californiaprogressrep...ornias_nur.html
I'm glad we had this talk Bob, and I hope you'll share what I've taught you here today. Because red herrings really stink.
Drug Monkey,
Thank you for an insightful post. Naturally, your play list with a tune called \"Sex Farm\" has me a bit worried about your need for a lifetime mate. smile
Tammy
I sniff a paid union organizer.
Thanks but I am not in need of education on the topic. The red herring would be the emotional reactions and ego-centric complaints distracting from an objective discussion about whether unions help, or hurt, the value of services rendered in the long run.
I merely posed the argument that they may do more harm than good. Rather than getting our elitist knickers in a twist because we're better than somebody spot-welding fenders, perhaps we should take a step back and consider the objective points...some of which are compelling for the nurse' work environment needs.
A number of interesting points are made in the following DMN article from April 23 of this year:
http://www.dallasnews.com/shared...es.3b2e75d.html
\"Meanwhile, states with nurses' unions have seen strikes, with pickets trying to steer patients away from hospital doors.
California, for example, has had nurses' strikes that lasted for days.
At one San Francisco hospital, police were called in because striking nurses were upsetting patients with their noise and blocking traffic, said Jan Emerson, spokeswoman for the California Hospital Association. \"
Sounds like improved patient care to me!
\"In August 2005, the California Nursing Outcomes Coalition – a union and management partnership that measures quality improvements – published the first report tracking the success of staffing ratios.
In the first six months after the ratios were implemented, there were no statistically significant changes in patient safety or quality outcomes, it found.\"
So, I too am glad we've had this little chat drugmonkey. The posted article seems to be a better source for exploring Tammy's blog question than this string of propaganda.
I'm beginning to feel Tom's pain Tammy.
Choose unions again in Texas, which we've had before and opted against, and you will see a decline. The unions don't care, they can blame it on the company, the evil CEO's and so on....and continue to call for socialized medicine. The strong arm tactics, such as forcing Parkland to provide all 2500 nurses names because they are public...and that paid union organizers flood DFW, Houston and more should be enough to tell you that there's money to be made on their side as well.
free market bob
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d2c9d2b0a3d1ca76d79692aac1937e2c&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Interesting that when American Airlines pilots strike they don't get the bad rap that nurses get for doing the same thing. Hmmm
As far as Bob, \"Let the beatings continue until his morale improves.\" smile
Tammy
They would from me. I remember a few air traffic controllers found that the practice can be costly. Like you've told me before, if we just had Ron and Mike back...
C'mon, though Tammy. Why the moral equivalency to justify REFUSING to work? Is THAT consistent with your honorable committment to patient care? What's next, rocks at \"scabs\" crossing the picket line? I understand the frustration. Hey at least one of us has a paycheck.
Problems are never solved WELL when responses/solutions are driven by emotion. I understand feeling under-valued and overworked. My last year has been that way...no recourse for me or my kids. I have to pick up my boots and march. I understand some employers do things incorrectly, and that a FEW have disreputable leaders who should and do get theirs. But to manage by exception is incorrect in my opinion.
Was not the PRN status created so that nurses who needed flexible hours could work part-time and/or for multiple employers? Do other part timers get/deserve full benefits? If it has become misused or exploited I understand. As a patient I wouldn't want my nurse exhausted either. From reading independent information and from experience I also agree that corporate systems have squeezed or \"interpreted\" the ratio formulas.
All I am saying is that the medicine being considered here may treat or seem to help a symptom, while damaging the patient's quality of life in the long run. There are far more factors complicating resources for hospitals than executive paychecks, though I know it's easy to see and covet those dollars. Divide half or a quarter of, say THR's across the system and see how many drops in the bucket you have. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Then look at what the government's hand in healthcare has done, how many millions of dollars go to uncompensated care (to illegals for one) and then let's talk again.
There are other options than calling the wolves into the henhouse. I'll let others have the last word on this though. I'm done.
Hmmm, not quite sure where the \"emotion based\" comes into the written blog. Last time I checked the median age of nurses across America was in the high forty range. Why is it not in the thirties?
We have positions in my hospital, in my own department, which are vacant. R.N.'s are in the community. They are not taking the bite.
What can be done to entice them to come back to the bedside?
Tammy
the comments, not the blog.
Yay! I win. For those of you not familiar with the tactics of right wing ideologues, I'll explain.
Our friends on the right are actually very predictable. When proven wrong, they have a limited menu of responses, none of which is actually admitting they have been out argued. When most desperate, they'll go for the \"bold face lie maneuver\" Here it is:
\"The red herring would be the emotional reactions and ego-centric complaints distracting from an objective discussion about whether unions help, or hurt, the value of services rendered in the long run.\"
Here's how non-objective I was.
\"The the risk of death and failure to rescue patients with complications is nearly 30 percent higher in hospitals where nurses' average workload is 8 patients than in hospitals where nurses care for 4 patients\"
Hmmmm...seems pretty objective actually. I even put in a link where you could check out the source of my actual, real, verifiable numbers.
\"The journal Health Affairs published a study that concluded that increasing the use of RNs and hours of nursing care per patient to the 75th percentile of hospitals... could help to avoid more than 6,700 patient deaths and 4 million days of care each year\"
My God, a scientific study published in a real scientific journal! And with real, non-made up numbers again and another link so you can check out the source! How emotional!
Wait. That's actually pretty much the definition of objective. You can see now where the name \"bold face lie\" maneuver comes from.
What Bob means when he says \"emotional reactions and ego-centric complaints\" is \"using numbers and verifiable facts to prove a point I don't like\"
Then we get the \"do exactly what you accused your opponent of doing even though your opponent didn't do it\" tactic. Another standard from the Republican menu:
\"At one San Francisco hospital, police were called in because striking nurses were upsetting patients with their noise and blocking traffic\"
Hmmmmm...either that, or the hospital administrators thought calling the cops would be a tactical advantage in their contract negotiations. There's really no way to know. Which is the very definition of a SUBJECTIVE situation.
And subjective is the opposite of objective isn't it Bob?....![\"\"](\"http://www.haloscan.com/images/smileys/content.gif\")
I'll help you out for next time. The proper way to refute an argument would be like this:
You know who doesn't agree with the conclusions of that little six month study you thought so definitive? The Bush administration's own Dept. of health and human services. Talk about some irony:
http://www.ahrq.gov/research/nur.../nursestaff.htm
See Bob, you take a point, then destroy it with higher quality data from higher quality sources. That's not so hard now is it?
Except when you're wrong. Then it's really hard.
Prove my numbers wrong or admit you are Bob.
Dear Drug Monkey,
I enjoyed your post on why pharmacists hate us, by the way. smile
And yes, there is nothing we like better on this free speech site than to be have a missile silo open up and launch a counter attacking torpedo.
In the end, the nurses in Texas will have to decide what is best for them.
It is our industry, our community, our decision. smile
Tammy
I have not researched the prospect of a nursing union in TX either. But having worked as an RN in TX for 35 years, I am qualified to say that something's gonna havta give.
Yes, we chose this profession for the human element of compassion - but comapssion doesn't put beans on the table, gas in the tank, and certainly not kids through college.
We ARE a formidable group: highly trained, seasoned through hard knocks, and having that caring touch that no amount of money can buy. We are also probably the most under-appreciated profession on the globe, getting older and more worn-out by the year. Fair compensation and reasonable work loads are all we ask - not to be nominated for sainthood!
To my fellow nurses everywhere - THANKS for working so hard and caring so much! Hopefully improvements will be made soon so that young visionaries will not shy away from nursing to pursue more econically rewarding jobs.
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=95dfa447626a6a200ede629a95d3f90b&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Tammy has urged me to comment, and for the life of me, I don't know why. I think she gives me too much credit, and perhaps expects something from me that is beyond what I have to offer.
I read the original blog, and let me say right now that I find nothing with which to disagree. I've served alongside her in some of the same trenches over the years, in the sense of employee status, though I do not claim the technical expertise and experience which sits on her so well. We have never discussed it, so I don't know whether she has not \"risen in the ranks\" in nursing management by her own choice, or whether it's a reflection of the innate fear that management usually holds, with regard for an intelligent woman who is not afraid to speak her mind and declare that the emperor is naked. It may be a bit of both.
Personally, I would hate to see unions come into Texas hospitals. The results which they promise they would bring are enticing indeed, and would be welcome. However, I fear we would be exchanging one repressive master for another. I would much prefer that Texas hospitals just wake up on their own, and smell the coffee, without the incessant clanging of a union alarm clock.
Now, from my vantage point of age, I'm going to make a statement that will horrify many. In my opinion, we need to do whatever it takes to lure more men into the nursing profession. Get enough of the fellas in there, and you won't need a union. It's still true that the majority of the upper-echelon management and decision-making positions are occupied by men. Get enough men into the lower-level, at-the-bedside workforce, and you will remove a lot of the \"us vs. them\" mindset.
You doubt this? Imagine a scenario, where a physician is discussing a difficult case with a staff RN. The RN is a female, and surprisingly, it doesn't matter much whether the physician is male or female. In this scenario, the conversation is very one-sided, the doc listens a bit impatiently to what the nurse says, and then gives a somewhat condescending response, ending the discussion. Now imagine the same scenario, same doc, but replace the female nurse with a male. Very often, two chairs will be drawn up, and a heads-together discussion will follow, with the opinions and suggestions of the nurse being given much more respect and credence than those of the female nurse received. There are, of course, exceptions, but this is the way it goes down, most of the time.
A happy by-product of my imagined world where there would be a great deal more male nurses, is that men actually make really good nurses. I've worked alongside them, and have found the majority to be intelligent, sensitive, caring and hard-working. I've been a patient too, and have received excellent care from the men who have been assigned to me. Gender issues in personal care should, can and do fade away when one is ill and in need of assistance. Just as a woman can give personal care to a m
Hmmm. Guess I wrote too much. However, since I strongly believe what I was saying in the last paragraph, I'm going to re-enter it:
A happy by-product of my imagined world, where there would be a great deal more male nurses, is that men actually make really good nurses. I've worked alongside them, and have found the majority to be intelligent, sensitive, caring and hard-working. I've been a patient too, and have received excellent care from the men who have been assigned to me. Gender issues in personal care should, can and do fade away when one is ill and in need of assistance. Just as a woman can give personal care to a man, so can the reverse be true. Women are not the only nurturers in this world, you know.
Vieja,
No eres vieja, mas bella, en mis ojos!
Reason I haven't \"risen\" in the ranks? Prefer the holistic approach and closeness of humanity.
It is interesting that in presenting the case I merely gave perspective of what it is to be a nurse in a hospital setting today. I actually worked to soften a bit, my thoughts.
But my premise is the same: one of unmet needs for nursing ratios which allow us more time at the bedside and less charting duplicity. Ratios that decrease infection rates and deaths. Ratios that allow personal interface with families in crisis. That, and an end to ridiculous slaps in the face like a plastic case with five bandaids in it for National Nurses Day. wink
Any other horror stories of \"Gifts from the Far Side\"? smile
Tammy
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=1d1520ee96881b32eca3b240ec5c6f44&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Wow - I'm torn because I am a member of a union (ostensibly my state \"professional organization\") that is not run by nurses.
I do not agree with the political leanings of my \"union\" and have asked that my dues go to the general fund instead of funding initiatives/candidates I do not agree with.
But...
I work in one of the highest paid areas in the country for RNs. When I began work in 1979 I made $7.50 an hour. I now make over $60.00 an hour as my base pay with weekend differentials, night differentials, extra shift differentials all added in.
That money, and the great health care benefits, the vacation benefits the extended sick leave benefits....they were not offered out of the goodness of my employer's heart.
They came out of negotiations with my professional organization.
And while nurse-patient ratios can be controversial, don't think for a minute they did not improve my work environment because they did, at least in my case.
And those were passed by my union.
So it's hard for me to say unions are bad when I have been the beneficiary of so many things that hospitals would never have considered.
Drug Monkey's been hitting the tricyclates a bit hard I think.
That much effort on discrediting an opposing view makes me think I hit close to home on the paid hack thing.
I appreciate nurses, and other hard working healthcare professionals, and know they deserve to be treated/compensated well.It should be noted that many advocating unionized labor would also socialize medicine if they could.
If you can't see the danger in that nightmare scenario, you deserve the fate of Europe.
VRWC bob
Bob!
Who would have known we would end up having so many areas of agreement!
\"It should be noted that many advocating unionized labor would also socialize medicine if they could.\"
Yup. Me and almost 6 in 10 of the doctors in this country.
http://www.reuters.com/article/h...&rpc=22&sp=true
But what do doctors know when it comes to health care decisions?
\"If you can't see the danger in that nightmare scenario, you deserve the fate of Europe.\"
Yes. I would like one fate of Europe please. I would love the danger of spending a fraction of what America does for health care:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/1...gin&oref=slogin
While covering everyone. While having better outcomes by almost any measure. Let's throw out some stats comparing our system to that of that den of socialized medicine, the UK:
For middle aged people (before Americans are covered by the socialized medicine program that is Medicare):
The rate of diabetes is twice as high in the US. Heart disease, 57% higher. Lung disease, 29% higher. Cancer...73% higher.
http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co...1766554,00.html
Maybe we're using different definitions of danger Bob. The one I use would classify *getting* cancer as dangerous, not *avoiding* cancer.
And don't flatter yourself. Maybe you spend a lot of effort on these posts, but discrediting you really doesn't take much of my time at all.
PS- 2 seconds of research would clue you in as to what I do for a living. Hint. DRUGmonkey, master of PHARMACY. Hint #2. Click in the little blue link that says HOMEPAGE. I bet even you can figure it out now. Thank you for the compliment though. Maybe someday I can use you as a reference? I just might have a gift for union work.
PSS- Tell me again how non-objective I am being by supplying all these actual, real, scientifically valid numbers and sources. That was funny when you did that.
Tammy,
\"Sex Farm\" is a classic....perhaps the most under appreciated song in Rock and Roll history....
As I said, DM confirms. The union invariably is linked to socialism...socialism to totalitarianism.
Anyone read of the RU486 debacle in healthcare heaven this week? They were \"too busy\" to diagnose the girl's problem. No capitalist pig in on that one.
Franklin was right: those who would give up essential liberty for immediate security deserve neither.
Enjoy the fruits of your unionized, socialized future, loved ones.
Socialists at work will never stop at the first incremental step.
And the beauty that was the United States of America dies as Kruchev claimed.
...Without firing a shot.
Liberty bob
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury,
The evidence before you could not be more clear.
You must find Bob not guilty by reason of insanity.
I rest my case.
DM
Drug Monkey,
Believe me, my humor is ever constant and under the surface when writing in the comments sections.
I guess now I will be forced to listen to the selection....
My playlist is much milder and geared toward femininity:
Three Times a Lady
Nights in White Satin
You're Beautiful
Killing Me Softly (Roberta Flack)
I do have \"Hotel California\". Does that count?
Tammy
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=c52b836fdb60aa576c905a7d89680286&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
\"Personally, I'm sick of divorcees, 2nd career people, welfare hogs, and dumbed-down applicants getting into 16-month accelerated RN programs. If you want TX to respect nurses; get the house in order with respectable, educated nurses.
Hey, 'America's Nurse'...surely you are aware that many accelerated 16-month RN programs are targeted for people who already have bachelor's degrees in other fields, most likely have developed excellent work ethics, bring to the table a wealth of information and perspective that a 22-year-old BSN/ADN student can't even begin to emulate, and roll immediately into advanced practice or advanced degrees while they begin work as nurses immediately upon finishing their RN work? And that after their clinical performances, nurse managers are strongly encouraging them to apply on their units? And that many of them do all of this while raising children, keeping families healthy, volunteering in the community, and somehow managing to stay sane? Explain to me how a person with AT LEAST one bachelor's degree under his/her belt takes 27 more hours of nursing school pre-reqs and then works his or her ass of in an accredited, acclaimed program, only to be deemed by you (ha, ha) as uneducated?
This second-career nurse hopes she never has to work with someone as close-minded and high-horsed as you. I don't dare consider myself an expert nurse as a fresh RN, but I also don't sit quietly when some asshole decides simply by labeling that I am uneducated. The example you set by such statements shows your own lack of education regarding the integrity and value of many innovative programs around the country bringing more nurses into the field.
Right on, SchoolNurseJack. I'm an Associate Degree RN, not a fancy degree to my name, just a lot of life experience. I was 40 when I got my RN, and my youngest child was 9. I went right to work at a local hospital, and have been there ever since. I guess I'm doing something right.
I've never advanced beyond the bedside, and that's fine, that was never my goal. If advancement and management had been my plan, I'd have gone on for more education, but I found I could do my job very well without having taken courses in statistics and philosophy.
Over the years, I have mentored many a new little BSN-prepared RN, with the ink on their diplomas just about as wet as the area behind their ears. Many of them had gone through school on Daddy's money, having chosen nursing because it sounded exciting, and they thought they'd meet some eligible doctors. At 22 or 23, that sounded good.
Their heads were full of nursing theory, but their hands shook badly when they had to give an injection. They knew a lot about bacteriology, but couldn't start the IV to deliver an antibiotic that would stop some saber-toothed bacterial infection in its tracks. They knew a lot about epidemiology and such, but had no idea what to say to a grieving family after a patient died.
When a distraught elderly man whose wife was suffering with dementia and a new diagnosis of cancer, brought a pistol to her room and blew her brains out, then did the same to himself, it was not the two new young BSNs on our staff who spent the better part of the afternoon scraping brains and blood off the walls. No, it was old \"dumb\" workhorse me and another of my kind who got the job done, and did it without vomiting.
Some of the highly educated new nurses are excellent, and make good nurses. I freely admit that. However, many of them get into the trenches and find there's very little glory there, so they either move on into management or leave the field entirely, and that's too bad.
People like me usually choose the quick route to an RN because we're older, don't have Daddy's money and do have families and financial obligations, so the ADN is a good fit. We're old enough to know our own minds, and usually enter the field because we are certain that bedside nursing is what we want. We take the quickest route possible, find our niche, and serve with honor. We do not appreciate being high-hatted by some educational snob.
What I may lack in advanced education, I more than make up for in experience and maturity, and I'll stack my nursing practice up against any new BSN any day, any shift, any unit.
![\"Gravatar\"](\"http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=80b727647bceb11ed933956a92d01a04&default=http%3A%2F%2Fec1.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fx-locale%2Fcommon%2Ftransparent-pixel.gif&rating=PG&size=32\" "\\"Gravatar\\""){kind=avatar}
Thanks for the information on a possible nurses union in Texas, Tammy. You bring up some very good points.
We recently wrote an article on if doctors should unionize at Brain Blogger. With doctors struggling with financial issues and having issues with the government reimbursement system, should doctors unionize? But are the downsides too much; is it really worth it?
We would like to read your comments on our article. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Kelly
Hello Kelly,
I will catch the article at some point in time today. I have book-ended events. The first, pleasure. The second, pleasure mixed with both pride and sadness. Colonel Kidd, one of our civilian anesthesiologists, an Army Reserve officer, is leaving for his second tour of duty into the battle space. The first tour in Afghanistan, and now moving with orders in hand to Iraq. Tonight, we give him our respect and our hugs at a party. The sons and daughters of America who receive his care will be in capable hands. smile
Best,
Tammy
you all seem like a bunch of tired gutless murses, especially you tammy!!
you really need to consider going into a new line of work, an assembly line
![](\"http://www.haloscan.com/images/jskit-ad-banner-small.png\")
Commenting by HaloScan