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Ridiculous, waste of tax payers money and the school boards time and energy. If a parent wants to have that kind of impact on the people around his kid, then he should send the kid to private school! Leave Ms. Roberts alone! This is just the beginning of this childs education - what's next?? Teachers are human, they have wrinkles, gray hair, no hair, scars, freckles, warts, crossed-eyes! They also have the ability to be wonderful role models for our children and most of them deserve much more pay than they receive and definitely more RESPECT!
Get a clue, Mr. Overbearing-First-Grader-Father, your child can't grow up if you keep hovering like that!
3:44:18 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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And THIS is why good teachers need a union! Thank you, Mr. Oldfather, for a peek into what makes teachers leave education. She's a good teacher, does a good job academically, but issues like this drive you crazy. Most new teachers only stay for 5 to 7 years before they leave and go to other professions. What a shame!
5:45:22 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Not that I would complain but I agree that role models around children should haft to refrain themselves from certain things. If you let this lady by, then whats stopping the eyebrow piercings and the others? Its easier to say No Piercings other than ears then to argue over who's what is pierced.
What if it was her eyebrow? Would people complain? I think they are ugly and discusting... but thats just me. We all have opionions, along with rules.
6:17:42 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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if you think the nose thing is nice you should see down below..... sets of metal detectors... good for her.
7:49:29 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I don't own a company but if I did I would think that I could tell my employees how they needed to dress in order to project a good image.
How is a school any different? A couple of earrings is not a problem, but a boss should have a right to say that you can't have eyebrow rings and nose rings if the boss doesn't want them.
8:20:28 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Hey Geoff,
Why not address the issue of a 4th grader in St Lucie county that gets read the riot act by his teacher for not wearing a belt? Now mind you his pants were not falling off nor were his undershorts showing.
Was this a waste of time? I believe it was. Especially since this child has to get up at 5 am to catch a 6:20 bus.....
9:15:32 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I don't see what's wrong with a small (tasteful) piercing. If it was a 2 carat diamond stud in her nose, no. A small little thing that you barely notice, who cares? Kids have to see and hear worse every day and in my opinion this should be the least of a parents worries. Someone being a positive role model should have nothing to do with a hole in their body and more to do with the kind of person they are, their morals and values and how they treat the kids. But again... Just my opinion.
9:21:42 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I do not care what Mr. Oldfather thinks, a person in a position of authority, who may be a role model for kids should dress and act like a professional. I really do not give a hoot why this teacher got a piercing. Jeff explains it is because of her fathers untimely death. Well that is sad but has nothing to do with this issue. If she wanted to, in a perverse way commemorate her fathers death by a piercing then pierce something that is not visible to the public. Whatever any ones opinion of piecing or tattoos or other forms of body disfiguration I do not want my kids to see this as acceptable, because it is not, in my opinion and that is all that counts when it come to raising my children. Too many liberal teachers and professors today mix their personal beliefs and biases into their curriculum and it is wrong. Yea I know I am out of the mainstream, I think divorce is too rampant, TV too violent and full of crap, popular music disgusting on some levels, etc, but at the end of the day my wife and I have raised two children who are well adjusted, never had any drug or alcohol problems, were never in trouble with the law, both graduated from college with advanced degrees and low and behold have found good mates and have happy marriages. Not because we just let it happen or let some teacher indoctrinate their beliefs but because we instilled OUR values. Finally I run a very successful business and we have a dress code which also includes items like piercing and tattoos; if you want to work here you follow the code, if you do not want to comply then go elsewhere. I do not care what you do in your free time or how you dress but IF you are going to interact with my customers then you are going to set a standard. Jeff your chosen profession is indicative of your liberal leanings...I might say to you, get a life, this is an important item to many.
9:25:08 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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you people love to throw around role model, be one for your kids and don't expect other people to be role models for you. Oh that guys a professional football player he's supposed to be a role model and that guy's a firefighter and that guys a police officer and she's a teacher there role models, no there not they are people earning a living be a role model yourself and get a life, so what a piercing, oh my god the kids are going to grow up to be satans children now eww. You people are losers ie. Ann Bush maybe your biased cause you were taught by a bad teacher cause you can't spell, and Carl get off your high horse like anyone cares how someone looks that is selling me toilet paper, as long as they have a friendly attitude I could care less I'm not a judgemental hoity toity better than thow blog
10:14:06 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I saw this on TV last night and agree with Geoff. You'd have to be nearly nose to nose with her to see it.
Parents should be offended by a lot of things, but this is not one of them. And this from a Father who's daughters have piercings but I constantly rag them about it (read that as: I don't like em).
Hey publish the name of this busy body. You've smeared a good teacher, fair's fair. Right?
10:30:08 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Geoff
There are rules for teachers and for all of us--wherever we are in life so you get a grip and stop making trouble for parents. Use your column in a better way please!
10:38:11 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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To David and Don, next time some smart aleck kid gives you some lip or cuts you off in their car and gives you the finger, just remember it is the fact that they probably had parents like you, who thought everything is OK and acceptable. No rules, just do your own thing. As I stated, I do not care what you look like or how you dress, but just a police officer needs to be in uniform to send a message as to their role, a teacher should be setting a good example by their actions, but also by their appearance. At the end of the day your kids and mine need to get a job and if they do not start seeing that what they do and how they dress in their professional life affects the type of job they may get, then they will be selling toilet paper. Too many parents today are simply sperm donors and egg carriers and not parents and you guys probably fit the bill.
10:47:06 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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A 250 lb. person wearing spandex is way more offensive than some tiny nose decoration. Great article Geoff!
10:48:02 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Apparently, it wasn't considered "against the rules" until a parent complained. The Principal of the school saw it, commented on it, and never said another word about it UNTIL a parent made it an issue. Who cares what's in her nose as long as the kids are learning? Her evaluations show that she is a great teacher. I would rather my child be in her class getting excited about learning new things than in a boring class where he hates to go to school.
10:50:38 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Geoff,
Use my newspaper for better articles!
Mr. 1st grader dad, show your distgust with your feet. Walk. Walk your child to another school a private school where all of this stupid crap is handled in a more appropriate way. Go to a school where morals and culture more closly resembele the ones you want taught. It is obvious that the public school system is a failure and will continue to be one.
11:02:40 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I agree, it silly, but if the school is going to enforce a dress code on the students then the teachers need to lead by example. What is good for the goose....
My son has to wear a belt if his cargo pants come with loops. How silly is that? Same thing. You can not tell the students to do as I say not as I do. If the teachers union does not like it they can get together with the students and parents and work up a dress code everyone can live with and that is not riddled with "silly rules". Present it to the school and try and get them to act reasonably. Yea, good luck!
11:19:13 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I was kinda hoping the obsessives would weigh in on this one.
Sort of a change of pace for them.......
11:21:12 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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This is almost laughable in its irony. I am generally opposed to the teachers' union and believe education needs to be pried from the steely hands of the government system and privatized--basically because our ed system in this country is deplorable and shameful. Yet you have a (by all accounts)great teacher--but this is the issue? The union will fight tooth and nail for educators who are totally inept and in some cases blatantly abusive--yet this woman's nose piercing is an issue. HUH??!!??
To the straight-laces above--who are you to decide what is and isn't "representing of the mainstream"--Save me your judgements!! Who says YOU aren't offensive to me? BTW, in Indian culture, nose piercings are the norm. In other cultures tattoos are the norm. So everyone needs to conform to your white-bread definition of clean cut? Get lost. She represents herself by her ACTIONS, not her appearance, thou small-minded ones. She is not displaying anything vulgar or inappropriate. Obviously if she had the F word tattooed across her forehead this could present an issue on a different level, but this is NOT the case. She has more than attempted to appease the whining parents, who ought to be grateful to God their snot-nose kid lucked out and got a decent teacher, rather than pissing and moaning about minutia--they need to find some productive hobbies w/all that spare time, in my opinion.FYI before you reply know I am white, female, non-tattooed, only ear piercings (but I have two in each ear--OH MY GOD!! WHAT A REBEL!!) and graduated w/high honors w/my doctoral degree--but believe others should not have to live and die by my opinion of "mainstream"
11:27:09 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I got it. Expell the student then the father can complain somewhere else.
11:27:12 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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Ironic too that this issue arises at Hobe Sound, the school that started all this dress code nonsense. There is also a certain stench of hypocrisy in the air as some of you posters now defending this teacher are the very same ones who posted on the all the virtues of collared, tucked in shirts.
11:29:10 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I do own a business. I wouldn't hire someone who had facial piercings. The whole dress code thing. Students can't wear a t-shirt or god forbid pants with out a belt. But a teacher can have a facial piercing? The dress code was apparently implemented for the few that couldn't follow the rules. therefore, all suffer. same with this. You can't say, well hers it little, so it's ok. It's all or nothing. Take the thing out.
11:29:38 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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MAUREEN
What is your opinion on the dress code for students then? I'm with you, I'm just asking.
11:32:07 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I would also really love to hear Mr. Oldfather's opinion on the dress code for students. I made all the exact same arguments against the dress code that he now makes on behalf of this teacher.
11:43:16 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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I have seen many students that look just fine without a belt and wearing a T-shirt. Abolish this whole stupid dress code crap, and I could care less that the teachers wear flip flops and piercings. I'm intersted in what Maureen has to say about the dress code too. I mean if it's ok for one and not the other....
11:52:58 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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"just remember it is the fact that they probably had parents like you, who thought everything is OK and acceptable."
I cant stop - somebody help me!
Did you even READ what I wrote? We're talking about a FIRST grader here man, and a tiny nose piercing someone got because they felt it honored a Parent who passed.
My children who have the piercings, are adults amigo. Who didn't get them until they became adults.
Why?
BECAUSE I LET THEM DO WHATEVER THEY WANT!!
Judgemental people - gotta love em.
I challenge you to ask my kids if I let them do anything they want.
LOL
By the way in case no ones noticed, the poor girl is still grieving. Let her alone.
Unless some incosniderate cold hearted person wants to say "well it's been a year - get over it".
Sheesh.
11:56:40 a.m. on May 31, 2007
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There is no dress code in Martin county- only St. Lucie county. But I agree 100%. If my son who is about to enter Kindergarten has to wear what someone else tells him to wear...then the piercings shouldnt be allowed by teachers.
Although its small enough that hardly anyone can see it...and I personally do not have a problem with her piercing....if my son has to wear a certain pair of pants, with a belt, a certain shirt with a specific color, design, collar, etc...why should any teacher or employee be allowed to look this way?
12:09:39 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Nose ornaments are as old as history. If one were to read the Bible, they would know that a wedding gift from Isaac to Rachel was a nose ring. She wasn't offended, so why are we? I guess because nose ornaments are not popular, like ear ornaments are. Seems to me that a piercing is a piercing, and it's a personal choice.
Some believe SOME piercings are okay. THAT is simply prejudice, and some think that being prejudiced is okay.
Wow, watch out world!
12:21:16 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but the size or the nosering doesn't matter. Otherwise you will have principals measuring them. Every single teacher at that school now knows that you can't have a nose ring. They didn't fire this good teacher for the nose ring after the fact. They told her that a nosering is not acceptable. She should have just taken it out.
What did she do? She is testing the waters. She put in a smaller nosering. Well, guess what? The problem isn't with the size, it is with the metal in your nose. Obviously this is a distraction and at least one parent complained.
The teacher should just remove it or if she feels so compelled to wear a nosering, get another job where they value your personal piercings more than this one.
28 comments makes on thing very clear to me. This nosering issue obviously has the potential to distract from the goal of educating the children, which is what the real goal is.
12:38:38 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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"There is no dress code in Martin county- only St. Lucie county"
Unfortunately Jennifer that is not correct. Martin does have a dress code but it is on a school by school basis. Most schools have already adopted the collared shirt only, tucked in belt thing. Per the school boards long time agenda it is very close to become mandatory and county wide.
12:47:03 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT , FROM WHAT I READ SHE IS A WONDERFUL TEACHER WHO ACTUALLY TEACHES AND DOES HER JOB, AND PEOPLE HAVE THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT A LITTLE PIERCING. GIVE ME A BREAK.WHY DONT WE START WORRYING ABOUT THE TEACHERS WHO DONT TEACH THAN WHAT A STUDENT OR TEACHER IS WEARING AND IF IT IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT.DO ANY OF YOU WHO ARE PROTESTING THIS HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THE TEACHERS PIERCING IS GOING TO AFFECT THE CHILDS LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, IF THE CHILD IS WILLING TO LEARN HE OR SHE WILL DESPITE A PIERCING.
1:02:04 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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This seems to be much ado about nothing. I don't like nose piercings, either. My 20yr old daughter had to get her nose pierced on her birthday. She likes it. IMO, it looks trashy.
When she got it, she did not change. She did not become a serial killer, or a prostitute. She still goes to school, works part time, and is very responsible.
So what if this teacher has a nose piercing? Don't we have more to worry about?
1:22:51 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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I could care less what anyone wants to pierce, personally. My problem is, is that they want all the students to conform, the staff should have to as well. When I don't have to buy uniform style clothes for a public school, I won't care if the "good" teachers hair is purple and she pierces her lip/eybrow what ever. whats the saying? "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander"
1:39:42 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Deede, public executions were popular a long time ago, so was female circumcision. Perhaps this should be acceptable today to? I guess we should let it all hang out and do whatever we want. After all this is the USA and anything and everything goes. As long as it does not affect me it should be OK. Is it any wonder that kids today have no respect for anyone or anything?
1:57:41 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Sorry Billy, I didnt know it was on a school by school basis...a friend of mines daughter goes to school in Martin county and he thought it was ridiculous that my kids are gonna be wearing uniforms in St. Lucie.
And I agree 100% with Justine...I dont mind piercings- and could care less what the teacher wears (well as long as its tactful anyway)...but if our kids have to abide by a dress code, the teachers should have to abide by some rules as well. And guess what- if you look at the rules and regulations of dress code for the schools- the only piercings kids are allowed to have is the ears. So why is this teacher allowed one in her nose??
2:03:43 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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This subject kinda hits home to me. I too have my nose pierced. I wear a sapphire stud in it. I also work in a professional field. If I thought that having my nose pierced would alter my work habits in any way, then I would remove it. My boss must not be offended by it or I would have been asked to please not wear it anymore. As for the teacher that used a clear retainer in the place of an actual stud, good for you. We teach our children to express themselves. As long as we as parents over see what they are doing, then there is no harm. That teacher is not harming the minds of those children. The parent complained only for the reason of complaining. They will continue to complain about anything and everything throughout their childs education. We have to make a stand as parents to inform our children that when they are adults they may do to the face and body as they please, but as long as we are in charge of them, they must abide by our rules. My daughters know that they will not be aloud to get tattoos or piercings until the time comes that they are responsible enough to make that decision for themselves.
2:10:34 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The response to this article is in direct relationship to the age of the writers.
A professional appearance in any position where contact with the public is involved-is necessary.
These kids have to know early on--body piercing, orange, pink or blue hair, eyebrows etc is just not acceptable in most jobs. (lol)
What ever happened to respectable appearance? Gone in the 70's.
2:25:30 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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A lot of people have given their opinions, but many don't know the facts. In Martin County, as in many surrounding counties, there is no dress code for teachers. The union can't represent the students. There is a union that represents teachers and one that represents blue and white collar workers. Each union represents its own. There are others in the district with nose studs also, but the teacher's union cannot represent them. If parents don't like their children having a dress code to follow, then they need to pay attention to the notices that come home from school about the SAC meetings where those issues are decided by PARENTS as well as school staff. Let your concerns be voiced at your child's school. The Stuart News also publishes a weekly School Digest every Sunday that tells you what activities and meetings are going on at the schools. Then, there's nothing like calling the school to find out when these meetings are. And, no, I was not testing the waters. I was trying to wear something less visible (not that a whopping 2 millimeter diamond nose stud is very visible). I have always said - and will continue to say- unless you walk in someone else's shoes, you don't know where they are coming from.
Thank you, Geoff, for publishing this column. Until the word "professional" is clearly defined and not used as a personal interpretation in order to edify or disqualify, and in my case disqualify, people will be allowed or not allowed to do as the district demands. What about the teachers that have multiple piercings up and down their ears? What about the teachers and administrators that wear huge earrings? What about the the teachers that have tattoos? What about all those single teachers that are getting pregnant and aren't even married? Talk about role models! They haven't even pretended to touch these issues.
You know, times change and people change. It wasn't so long ago that female teachers weren't allowed to wear pants to school and that male teachers couldn't sport facial hair. Look at the teachers, administrators, and district personnel now.
Julie Roberts
2:44:17 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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She must be from Ft. PIERCE!
2:47:09 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Not all change is good!
2:54:54 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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As I do not have children in the public school system in Florida circa 2007, I can't really comment on the dress code situation, as I'm not sure what it entails. Does it include piercings? Are earrings allowed, but no nose/naval/lip rings?? What about tatts? If you have a tattoo and move into this school system, do you need to pay to have it (poorly) surgically removed? Cover it w/clothing?
Here's my opinion--and it's just that. Kids need RULES. Because they are not ADULTS. By default of becoming ADULT, one thing that it generally bestowed to you is a greater decision making power of how you run your life (even though a lot of people, although chronologically adult, are perpetually juvenile and cannot make a good decision regardless, this is a whole other topic). Although I believe in individual expression, I am not against dress codes for STUDENTS for the following reasons:
1. You are in school to LEARN. There is obviously a sad lack of actual learning going on in schools in this country as demonstrated by where we rank worldwide--SHAMEFUL. Kids competing for who has the most expensive ,"phat, rad, bitchin'" clothes can potentially be a distraction to this learning process.
2. Teachers, as ADULTS, as long as they present themselves in a professional (meaning well groomed, non-obscene, tasteful)type of dress, should not have to wear uniforms or comply to as strict a dress code as the students, because they are ADULTS.
If a whiny kid says, "why doesn't Ms Smith have to wear (XYZ)like us?", the answer is the same as why Ms Smith can choose to vote or drink a beer or see an R rated movie--cause she's an ADULT.
3. Which segues into....as to how the nose ring is "not setting a good example" for the kids--this one I still don't get at all. And I'll bet money she's discussed the reason WHY she did this w/the kids.
Oh and BTW Carl--if you think your kids never did anything you wouldn't approve of--nice to dwell in your white-bread bubble, eh? Kids test rules cause they're kids, what is needed by adults is to constructively correct them. Sounds like growing up under Hitler in your HH. So they probably pulled all their really good stunts a good stone's throw from home, you just don't know about it because they never got caught.
2:54:58 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Looks like you lost on this one Geoff....Try again...
And, to all of you who thinks its ridiculous that your kids haft to wear belts and collared shirts... you obviously haven
�t walked through the halls lately and seen what parents allow their kids to wear to school. The rules are made for a very good reason... trust me.
Sorry for the spelling error David...
2:58:12 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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You parents are idiots. I hope she is able to turn around and sue the school board. A great teacher, happy with the pay and getting perfect evaluations.
Remember children are held to the dress code because your idiot kids are just that idiots.
3:46:51 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Ann you sound like fundy!
3:47:43 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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seems to be about 50/50 in here lets move on to abortion.
3:55:42 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Otis.... her piercing has no effect on her teaching abilities, we get that. Well guess what, what kids wear has NO EFFECT on there learning abilities.
4:02:18 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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I think that having a small piercing or even a little tatoo should in no way have any bearing on how a teacher is judged! It would be a different story if teachers were coming in plastered with body art and holes...however this is not the case. This poor woman needs to be given a break. In NO WAY does this tiny piercing effect her teaching style anymore than having her ears pierced!
4:03:39 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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these are the only points that matter:
1) the authority of the school (principal) apparently asked the teacher what it was on her nose, she explained it to him, and the principal was content, no further action
2) did the child notice the piercing? did he/she say something to their father?
3) for those who contend that the authority dictates dress code of teachers, see point 1
4) if the father doesn't like the teacher, he can switch classes, can't he? no sense in creating such an uproar over one complaint. imagine how much society can be bogged down due to one complainer. there will always be complainers, and yes i like to complain about complainers, oh the irony!
5) is there a specific mentioning about piercings in a teacher's dress code?
6) it sounds like this case is based on one arbitrator's personal opinion, not knowing what this person's demographic is, just throwing it out there
7) my explosive flatulence is "cute, haute couture, crude and tasteless", that minuscule piercing is not my friends.
i really feel sorry for this child, he's is being used as a tool for one anal-retentive adult's tirade.
dear parent:
frivolous complaints are distracting to the efficiency of a school teacher. this asinine case is hindering Ms. Roberts' efforts towards organizing for the next school year, and thus maybe affecting the quality of your child's education. her having a minuscule piercing, however, will not lower her quality of instruction as a teacher.
p.s. get your cranium out of your rectum, and try not to completely ruin your kid's childhood, thereby scarring him for life. You're his role model, do your job and let Ms. Roberts do hers.
4:05:47 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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hey there i believe the parents and school staff should worry about what goes on in school not body piercing there is bully, self injury kids wearing there pants to there knees. not his petty crap that a teacher has her nose pierced to remember her father.lets worry about the real issues in school...
4:13:43 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The Martin County School district's personnel dress code is as follows:
Teachers shall dress in a professional manner. What parent should be allowed to determine whether her earring is offensive or not? I personally know Mrs. Roberts and she is a teacher that cares about her students. Her dedication, demeanor, and attitude towards education and each student is immeasurable and professional.
I would be proud to have her as my child's teacher. She is the eptiomy of an teacher excellence. Moreover,
I am disappointed that one parent (ONE) was able to determine what is offensive or not!
Our children have a dress code because they are just that.....children...We as adults are allowed to be accountable for our own actions. Mrs. Roberts is in no way affecting the student population by her nose ring. However, she is affecting children everyday with her enthusiasm for learning, creating a fun-loving environment for them to be successful, and by going 200% above and beyond the call of duty. Thank you Mrs. Roberts for all of your dedication towards the children in Martin County. I would be proud to have my child in your class.
4:38:26 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The real issue here with the nose stud is the very vague language and the broad range of interpretation applied to the simple language. The exact language in the contract is as follows: School board policy 3179, rule V.19 "Employees are expected to dress in a professional manner." There is no definition or any guidelines defined at all. This is the real danger. They can, and did, apply what ever opinion or standard to disqualify Julie Roberts. If they don't like your shoes, wedding ring, type of belt, buckle, pants, hair style, etc., etc. They can claim you are un-professional and subject you to harassment, disqualification, termination, and intimidation, AS TO WHICH THEY DEMONSTRATED EVERY ONE OF THESE HOSTILE ACTS OR TONES TOWARD Julie Roberts. Does any body see the danger with this? Now that Julie Roberts has challenged this and was forced to accept the strong arm of the school boards (Hank Salzler) almighty verdict. The next teacher that wears a t-shirt, ring, shoes, cultural dress, or etc. and Hank doesn't like it, He can disqualify that person as un-professional. That person then would be subjected to the same level of threat (immediate termination), disciplines, dis-repect,etc. Hank had the school board attorney claim that they used the standard from IRCC. IRCC has a clearly defined language and definition. HANK, step up to the plate and write language that is clearly defined, and quit hiding behind your personal interpretation and application of vague language. Dr. Wilcox, YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED THAT YOU LET #2 MAN, HANK, GET SO OUT OF CONTROL AND RUN SO RAMPANT AND RECKLESS OVER GOOD DECENT AND HONORABLE TEACHERS!!
Tim Roberts, Husband
4:46:45 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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I have no issue with nose piercings, but I just have to ask. If your nosed is pierced and you sneeze does the stud shoot across the room???
4:55:29 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Ok one question, if this teacher had the nose piercing when she applied for the position, would the school board have hired her?
No matter how kids dress, tattoo or pierce their bodies, grow their hair, shave their heads--sooner or later they have to go out into the work force.
Believe it or not--many employers will hire-in part, on appearance.
Some of these "styles" will result in not much more that minimum wage jobs.
Their choice.
5:03:58 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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And on the other hand, some of those styles might create a fashion trend that could make you rich.
Actually, I think the minimum wage jobs are the ones where you have to conform to the stricter codes (a la McD's w/ a hairnet)
Ever hear the song "Signs", Liz?
6:45:15 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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if a nose piercing is the biggest thing you have to complain about with this teacher, you better thank your lucky stars! your sheltered child could have a teacher that recieves less-than-grade reviews and is only biding their time before they leave teaching.
to the father, grow up! you mean to tell me that you have never told your kid the "don't judge a book by it's cover" saying? have you not taught your child respect? understanding? acceptance? compassion?
well, i guess if you didn't learn them, how is your kid going to learn them?!?!?!?
7:11:07 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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What's next? Teachers can't wearing earrings?
What's the difference?
7:43:00 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The best point yet....By Liz
Ok one question, if this teacher had the nose piercing when she applied for the position, would the school board have hired her?
I dont see anyone answering this question.
7:49:13 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Coober... The difference is....
Earrings goes in your ears....
Nose rings goes in your nose....
Glad I could help clear that up for you.
7:51:37 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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I wish having a stick up oyur butt was fatal...
7:52:05 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Maureen
Wasn't the song "Signs" about rules and laws? Some people need them.
7:56:51 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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It looks like a booger that was trying to escape from her nostril...
EEWWWW!
8:04:28 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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My son had pre-school and early elementary teachers with nose piercings and tattoos.
He is almost 18 and has no piercings or tattoos.
His cousins went to a high rated pre-school and private schools and they both have piercings and tattoos.
One of them has huge holes in his ears!
The difference- their parents liked to let them "express" themselves, by letting them dye their hair, and picking their own clothes.
Us- we just told our son we're so glad he didn't need to express himself by marring up his body or wearing ridiculous clothing.
That or we were just lucky
8:21:44 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Maureen,
I think your first post today was one of the best ever for this forum.
The jewelry was not an issue until the parent complained. How many children does this teacher have contact with? Have any other parents complained? I think I'd be worried if she were snorting up her nose as opposed to piercing it. Just sayin...
8:29:12 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The teacher should have said the nosering was cultural.
8:41:11 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Teachers and all workers need Unions to protect them from ridiculous complaints from uptight policy makers. I personally think the nose thing is a little strange however it is a non-issue if the teacher is a good one. If you people in the county aren't involved in your Union then you need to be and this case proves it.
9:10:43 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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carl ripen sounds like the kind of guy that would be great at replacing pat robertson, jerry falwell or some other whacko fanatic!
mr carl it is ppl like you that thinks everyone follows your foolish way of thinking not some teacher wearing a piercing
my friends kid goes to mike lannons school of whackos also known as st lucie school district mr lannon like mr carl had decided to buy into some lie that dress for success would work....needless to say lannons actions proved him to be incompetent hmm wonder if mr carl thinks same way about dress code you didnt go to some robertson school did you massah carl?
9:15:53 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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I heard the powerful Teamsters union is trying to represent Martin County employees. I was involved with the Teamsters as a member in New York and I can tell you they will absolutely fight like a junk yard dog for their members. Crap like this abuse of a worker over petty dress codes just wouldn't be tolerated. If a person is a librarian, trash man or lifegaurd, It doesn't matter just organize and work toward dignity and fair treatment in the workplace. Nobody should be fired because an employee reminds the boss of his brother in law or something. County workers who are interested should go to Teamsters.org
9:21:06 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Liz:
The song signs is actually about overly restrictive and asinine rules, and how they defocus from what's truly important. Just FYI. I am by no means promoting a free for all, lawless society. But the issue of what's of real value to instill in our children is muddled and confused by triviality such as this matter.
9:40:03 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Julie Roberts, Geoff Oldfather of the News, the people of this community and their children support you. Fight the system and don't let it get away with abusing good teachers when the public schools have so many real issues that deserve their attention!!! Your teachers union will support you, Keep up the fight !!!
9:54:23 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Thank you, Tatwalla Baba, for your kind words and support.
9:58:54 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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If the father complains about this, what else might he complain about? If I were a teacher i wouldn't want him in my class and I'm sure others will be hesitant
11:04:01 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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Tatwalla, yeah the union is the answer to everything, what a bunch of [removed] go back to NY. Unions, protecting underachievers everywhere.
Now back on topic, I don't have an issue with a nose ring, I could care less BUT It's not uncommon for people who work in the real world to have dress code standards.
So it's not spelled out in policy that nose rings are not allowed, policy dictates you must dress professionally, I'd be willing to bet if you polled business owners and corporate employees you'd find most do not believe a nose ring constitutes professional attire.
So they give you a pass on your nose ring, what happens when the next person decides that numerous facial piercings are fine to wear to school also? Let me answer for you, that person will be complaining that they are being picked on because you have a facial piercing.
Piercings will not close up if the stud is left out during the course of your work day so that excuse is not going to fly.
11:04:16 p.m. on May 31, 2007
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The only way to solve this is to make all the teachers dress and look exactly alike. Just like we are doing with the kids.
A single uniform for all teachers, students, and school employees. And NO jewelry. Hows that? Make them all dress exactly the same. Maybe a red white and blue jumpsuit?
Also in the interests of making sure there are no distractions and our kids all get to focus on schoolwork instead of how they or their teachers look I think we should go a little further.
Shave all the kids and teachers heads. No more redheads or afros to distract from the educational process.
No more hair envy!
If you wish to visit the school campus, after providing ID, you can be provided with a jumpsuit to wear while on school grounds. After you shave your head, of course...
I dunno, this seems kinda silly.
Maybe it would be easier just to make all the other teachers get a nose stud too, and just concentrate on making just the kids knuckle under to whatever style is most acceptable to the most intolerant parents in our community.
Like we are already doing.
7:36:43 a.m. on June 1, 2007
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Julie and Geoff.... Please let Us know how this all turns out after she "Fights the system". I suppose it could go either way depending on the judge. I just hate to see her hard earned teachers wages spent on attorney fees.
7:48:31 a.m. on June 1, 2007
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Simple question, where do you draw the line? Ear rings are ok, but noses aren't.
So for all of you that say it's ok, what about this trendy new fashion statement for your kid's teacher? A full grill on their teeth. Is this going overboard or ok?
What happens when this takes place, especially when a white parent complains about a black teacher? Is this scenario probable? No. Possible? Yes.
You have to draw the line somewhere, that's what they're doing. Get over it.
10:34:40 a.m. on June 1, 2007
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Isn't she too old to be doing stuff like this? I'm 30, and I wouldn't do stuff like this anymore because I'm mature and responsible, and I want to put forth that image for my children. I would expect my son's teacher to do the same.Schools have rules for a reason. If this is okay then when and where do you draw the line? Sorry Geoff, I don't agree with you on this one.
12:11:38 p.m. on June 1, 2007
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Lombardo, it isn't just about a nose ring as much as it is the issue of good employees being harrassed for something petty. It just illustrates why teachers and all school board employees need union representation to protect them against psycho parents who can destroy careers because somone or something doesn't fit their little world view of things.
4:44:00 p.m. on June 1, 2007
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If no piercings are a condition of employment - then no piercings it is.
The District can determine the dress code and appearance. I question their rationale, but they do have the right to establish them.
5:05:00 p.m. on June 1, 2007
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Yes Steve they do however the hole in her nose is SO SMALL that it brings up bigger questions about the petty investigations and harrassment of a quality teacher. My God if she were caught smoking crack in the womens roon then it would warrant this kind of investigation but we are talking about a tiny hole in her nose that I have to squint in order to see. CAN'T YOU PEOPLE SEE THAT THE SYSTEM IS SERIOUSLY FLAWED WHEN THEY ATTACK THIS WOMAN OVER SOMETHING THIS SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT?? THEY ARE THE PROBLEM NOT HER !!!!
10:03:04 p.m. on June 1, 2007
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TATWALLA BABA- Rules are rules. My employer has rules, too. She wasted tax dollars trying to fight it, and personally I'm appalled that she would think she doesn't have to follow them. (Which she made obvious by not taking the ring out completely after she was asked). You know what my employer would do if I didn't follow the rules?! They would tell me to leave! Not try to reason with her as Martin County has. The District has the right to make rules and enforce them. If she doesn't like it, find employment elsewhere!
10:18:58 p.m. on June 1, 2007
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personally i think the complainer should step up to the plate show your face you sissy... i would love to rag on a guy that complains about a persons looks not looking at the job performance.and to all you compliners on here home school your children.save them from this beast of a teacher NOT!!
10:51:40 a.m. on June 2, 2007
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The parent who complained should be feeling pretty foolish right now. Did he/she really mean to cause this much trouble for this poor teacher?? It is not too late for that parent to come forward and publically apologize for the attack against Julie Roberts and call on the School board to reverse their position on the issue. This is not about a nose ring, This is a struggle for the rights and dignity of teachers who fight everyday to educate our children. They should be allowed to carry out their daily functions without nit picking buisy-bodies looking over their shoulder every five seconds.
4:43:07 p.m. on June 2, 2007
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