a very good piece of news for the Church
"until he will be officially deposed" is incorrect. He has two months to recant; then the House of Bishops when they meet can act.
There can be a special meeting of the HoB, which I think this situation will call for. I doubt very much if they will wait until their next regularly scheduled meeting.
But I get you point, and will make a slight edit.
Thanks be to God! The beginning of the end is finally beginning.
FYI, Jake, I also posted the story at The Episcopal Majority, along with a renewed appeal for donations to Remain Episcopal.
HAAAAAAAAAAAALLELUIA! Finally something has been done. Way to go, "Our Kate!"
Jake, I was replying to a post that you deleted. Go ahead and pull my post, too, please, so they won't have the pleasure of seeing their comment stay here. thanks.
I'm going to do that, Dennis. Thanks for the permission. Not in the mood for their bs today.
So much water has passed under the bridge. I haven't been around for quite some time. The crisis in the Anglican Communion is emotionally exhausting....
Just to say, I finally got my degree in Telecommunications Engineering.
I am tired.
Chike my friend; I have missed you very much!!! Congratulations on the degree. Way to go!!!!!
Congrats, Chike.
On-topic:
So sad.
So necessary.
Lord have mercy!
God bless the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin.
Congrats, Chike. Take a well-deserved rest.
Good. I am glad this happened.
Now the world can see that KJS means business. She will do what must be done.
Let me congratulate you as well, Chike. It's good to see you again.
Missed you Chike -- congrats!!
Congratulations, Chike.
Since Lisa directed our attention to the Episcopal Majority site, I should note that the same site is running portions of a new book by Bishop Robinson. I highly recommend these articles; he is as good a writer as he is a speaker.
Chike! I was just thinking of you the other day, wondering where you'd got off to.
Well done on the degree! Mazel tov!
::toasts::
Oh My God!
I should probably be ashamed that I'm sitting here with a big grin on my face, right?
Right?
But it feels like something is starting that I have been waiting for.
It's like spring.
Or perhaps the beginning of Lent. Knowing that I must be prepared to go through a period of preparation, one that may require sacrifice and discipline but at the end I will be greeted with Easter morning.
I'm going to keep on smiling.
Peace
Oh and congrats Chike.
Episcopal Life reports that the next HoB meeting is scheduled for March 7-13, at Camp Allen-- which, as it happens, is just at the end of the canonically required two months +Schofield has to respond. So a special meeting will not be necessary.
Congratulations, Chike! Definitely something to be proud of.
Perhaps someone can explain the limitation ("except as relate to the administration of the temporal affairs of the Diocese of San Joaquin") which seems to leave the former bishop with his hands on the keys and the checkbook?
LOL @ dayouthguy --- i acually got up and did a "happy dance" --- da da da da DAAAAAAAAa da! I'm going to burn in hell for that but i enjoyed it.
Poor David, now he has his martyr's crown. I don't mean that in a mean way, I mean, he can really see himself as the martyr now.
However, I anticipate that JDS will have a snarky comeback to this inhibition.
Start popping the popcorn.
Methinks it's going to get a lot more interesting before it's all over and the fat lady (I volunteer) sings.
By the way, let the record show that yes, I AM a fat lady/bbw/plus sized Goddess (or as MadPriest put it: "ain't nothing skimpy about Our Trace, thanks be to God") and I CAN sing.
::wink::
THANKS BE TO GOD! Now with this act to inhibit Schofield, it will probably be much easier to gain a restraining order in civil court to tie his hands and prevent him from running south with the loot!
Tracie: Are you alto or soprano? Maybe we can arrange a duet.
That was me above...
THANKS BE TO GOD! Now with this act to inhibit Schofield, it will probably be much easier to gain a restraining order in civil court to tie his hands and prevent him from running south with the loot!
Anonymous | 01.11.08 - 9:50 pm | #
Tracie, yes, i agree. I belive it will be something like,
"Dear Mrs. JS; what part of 'We are part of the SC so your provience has no authority to tell Us what to do,' do you not get PS go to heck"
use of royal pronouns intentional.
So, bottom line... Can St. Nicholas go back to church this weekend?
"Dear Mrs. JS; what part of 'We are part of the SC so your provience has no authority to tell Us what to do,' do you not get PS go to heck." Use of royal pronouns intentional.--James I
That is what I expect, too. The GS cardinal primates will have a tissy, given the fact that PB Jefferts Schori is a female (hence unfit to be a bishop in the Church of God). She will be called all kinds of names as CofE folks, too, ride to the rescue of their beloved John-David Schofield. It's predictable who will sign a letter of support--Jack the Lion, Michael Nazir-Ali, the Bishops of Horsham and Lewes, not counting the GS self-appointed cardinals. PB Jefferts Schori needs our prayers, while she will be the target of abuse by very vile Christians.
Chike, many congratulations on obtaining your degree -- it must be a wonderful accomplishment. (says one who knows the long, long road to obtaining various degrees)
Congratulations, Chike! I too had been wondering where you'd got to. Glad you got your degree and are back with us.
As for the inhibiition, I"m glad it's finally come. Maybe now people will stop screamning that ++KJS is doing nothing. The inhibition undoubtedly had been in the works and ++KJS and the legal beagles were just waiting for the right time to do this. Sure, the inhibition has been laid on JDS but he will ignore it. THe HoB should have some real grounds (in 2 months) to take the next step in the process set forth in the C&C.
I've been one who, although perhaps not screaming, has very much wanted the PB to do or say *something.* So why am I sad at this inhibition? I *know* it's the proper thing to do here. And yet, I wish it had not had to have happened.
RFSJ
I know how you feel RFSJ. Even more so painful over the past 20 years has been the conspiracy we in the San Joaquin have had to endure. I don’t think it’s fair to say most of us feel joy for this event but certainly we feel a great sense of relief.
Chike, Congrats. It took me a mere 39 years and 8 days to finish mine. I recall feeling really good when I finally did.
As to the inhibition, there is a long way to go. Almost certainly he will ignore it, save a sad but determined sounding denunciation. Almost certainly the HoB will affirm it and the PB will depose him. And almost certainly the litigation will begin.
What I wonder a bit is what will become of his invitation to Lambeth after he is deposed. I am confident I can predict that ABp Venables will claim he should be eligible. Ah well, seeing Dr. Williams actually confront a dilemma should be entertaining!
FWIW
jimB
I dont want to dampen the party atmosphere, but let me take a wild guess and say there will be a reply from JDS to this, sounding something alongs the lines of:
Madam all this is very nice, seeing as how I believe that women are not suitable material for ordination I no longer recognise your perceived role in being able to do this.
As of 2007.12.08.14.12 I am His grace the Rt Revd J.D. Schofield of the Diocese of San Joaquin of the Iglesia Anglicana del Cono sur de American, Which means I am therefore no longer a member of TEC, no longer subject to its canons, constitution, rubrics, rules and regulations or your specious alligations and spirous asertions about my Canonical abilities. But thank you for your interest.
He probably wont be as directy and possibly a bit more snarky than i suggest but those are just my first thought about how he might reply to ++KJS.
to: Leslie from St Francis in Exile and to Friend at St Nicks:
CTK is ordering Lenten books, If you want us to order for you, send qnty and will need to figure out how to meet up and get to you.
I too, am sad it has come to this, but a great sense of relief, I believe the Calvary is well on its way. Praise be to God. Can't wait for the 26th, sapb
I think our Presiding Bishop is under soo very much pressure. She was in Birmingham today, and as I have been told, was asked a baited, rediculous question by a very conservative priest - what did she think about the change of the wording in the hymn, 'Amazing Grace' from 'wretch' to 'soul' like me? She recovered from the question to say that he could sing it however he wanted. Only in the South...
Heidi
I checked out the url for the DSJ and i must say, i'm surprised Dave's reply isn't posted already -- I know it was written in November if not long before that
Lots of glee here.
Heidi,
I live in the South, and we've never had any complaints about such a change -- "wretch" being a leftover from a theology which is basically world-hating and fatalistic.
Better to say, only among the Reasserter Soreheads.
Glee?
Not at all.
We love the sinner, we just hate the sin.
Goose sauce up!
Alleluia!
Verily, verily I say unto thee, 'tis about copulationing time.
Oh Praise God! This is such a relief, such a relief indeed. I am so delighted with this news that I shall be up all night!!!
Is CTK, Christ The King? and who are you sapb.:)
Chike, I'm so glad that your effort and concentration has paid off: Congratulations!
According to BabyBlue, the Southern Cone Diocese of San Joaquin has responded as follows to PB Jeffert Schori's inhibition of John-David Schofield:
"The Episcopal Church’s assertion that Bishop Schofield has abandoned the communion of this Church is an admission that TEC rejects the historical Anglican faith.
This is why The Diocese of San Joaquin appealed to the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone of South America for emergency and temporary protection. The majority of the other provinces of the Anglican Communion hold to the traditional faith.
It is the primary duty of bishops to guard the faith and Bishop Schofield has been continually discriminated against for having done so while Bishops and Archbishops around the world have affirmed not only his stance but the move to the Southern Cone. Bishop Schofield is currently a member of both the House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church and the House of Bishops of the Southern Cone, not prohibited by either house.
Governing documents of TEC do not prohibit relationships between different members of the Anglican Communion, rather they encourage it..."
Mark, those of us who have been instructed by the last week of back-and-forth on the HoB/D listserv would caution you to avoid that phrase.
Perhaps. 59 more days and counting.
Do tell, Paul? I have nothing to do with HoB/D listserv.
to sapb: I will consult on the # of books and let you know, thank you for the generous offer. We sure can use it.
I read this article right as it posted, I jumped out of my chair, printed a copy because I had an appointment and read it in between duties. WOW!
We are not sure when we will be back in the church buildings. Of course IF I had my way, it would have been hours ago. But we agreed to abide by a process and have faith in ++KJS and her team. We are praying every hour of every day, for all involved, not just one side. We all need healing, and Lord, let it come.
"The Episcopal Church’s assertion that Bishop Schofield has abandoned the communion of this Church is an admission that TEC rejects the historical Anglican faith."
This is double-speak that wants to make "The Episcopal Church" some kind of constituent member of a "(non-existent) global Anglican Church". The "Anglican Church" belongs in one land only - England.
I have to tell you, I am hoping (and praying - though that is an ineffective, retrospective prayer) that the C&Cs of TEC are as water-tight as we apparently think they are. I still can't assume that the US civil courts won't end up adjudicating something like "the content of the Catholic Faith as expressed in the Anglican Church as expressed in the Episcopal Church", leading to a new jurisdiction and a monumental morass of litigation.
I hope you know that I don't wish it to be so. I just have this familiar odd sense that the AAC gameplan is still "in play", and that it is a powerful playbook.
I am grateful for the action taken thus far, and I am hoping that the same will be said to Duncan, Iker, and (sorry, who's #3, I really am getting old) BEFORE their next conventions to get TEC ahead of the curve. Otherwise, I fear that we will be chasing a passionate movement and find ourselves wanting.
If the PB's rep's and connectors to the Review Committee are listening, please take this warning seriously. Please review JDS' (more precisely IRD's and their global friends') response even more carefully, anticipate the arguments, and, if canons allow, move more proactively? This is not a complaint; it is a plea for keen vision.
Best,
JimB asked:
"What I wonder a bit is what will become of his invitation to Lambeth after he is deposed. I am confident I can predict that ABp Venables will claim he should be eligible. Ah well, seeing Dr. Williams actually confront a dilemma should be entertaining!"
Jim, I'm no scholar, not any kind expert. But I blogged about this back in December, when Schofield led the parade down to the Southern Cone. The last bishop (Cavalcanti of Recife [in Brazil]) who marched into the Southern Cone did not get an invitation to Lambeth. In other words, neither he nor his faux diocese is in communion with Canterbury. I wonder how Canterbury will deal with Schofield, in light of that precedent.
BTW, considering how Don Armstrong responded to his inhibition, I think you all are exactly right about how Schofield will respond to our Presiding Bishop. He will stick out his tongue, wag his ears, and say, "You ain't the boss of me no more!" I'd bet Starbucks to Krispy Kremes on that.
sapb: please contact Fr. Fred through our website, his contact info is there. Here is our link
http://web.mac.com/frisard/iWeb/...ch/
Welcome.html
Thanks again! Blessings to All
Well, it's a start...screaming is certainly preferable to defending "sensible shoes" that are best worn for tip-toeing around difficulties...best to put on the kind of shoes that fit in to "starting blocks" like they wear up in Canada even in the Winter!
OK, Jake, a little snack on some-of-my unflattering words surrounding the whimpy response problem with not-so-quickdraw ++Katharyn (even though her "timing" wasn't exactly swifto for this first initiating round, I'm certain she'll get veloz as the others start to "saddle up")...
Chomp, chomp, chomp...chomp....good going ++Katharyn...now, STOP that KICK!
Glee? Throwing the biggoted "bums" out truly brings out is what God expects from me! But, Blue Baby, we'll keep the light on and the door open so after the sheriff marches you and your deceifut pals out, you can turn right around, come right back in, says your prayers and be thankful you're avoiding personal liability and jail!
"Love you anyway" that's what V.G. Robinson would say!
Ole'
. . TEC rejects the historical Anglican faith.
I would hope so. We're part of the Christian faith. I have no faith whatsoever in Anglicans.
BabyBlue (at 11:19pm), if there is glee here, it is the glee of people who have been systematically abused and beaten up, who finally hear the sirens of the police coming to their rescue.
Hi Leslie/Friend of St Nick's
I will contact Fr Fred and work that way for the Lenten booklets for St Nicks, Leslie, my name is Samantha and yes CTK is Christ The King..Can't wait to meet all of you on the 26th!! Those of us meeting this way should wear a Fr Jake button!! Then we can spot each other!
It has been such a road,I want to be so cautious in getting too excited, but I feel like a weight has been somewhat lifted. Thanks to all of you on this site.. WOW.. you have been so instrumental in helping us all stay focused on whats important,and to get connected and stay connected. The Holy Spirit is certainly alive and well in The Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin!
What Lisa said.
And congratulations to Chike! Refresh and renew, Chike. Your future awaits you.
We know they'll be dishonest as all get-out, because that is their nature. But today, we give thanks to God. For God is good.
Scott,
The Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church will be interpreted by the House of Bishops. There is very little the civil authorities can do here beyond depriving us of some property. (And we will likely lose at least a few of these cases.) The important thing here is that we are on the way to re-establishing a presence for The Episcopal Church in places like SJ.
Congrats Chike
On the Amazing Grace statement, I played for years in the RC church for years and they ammended they wetch like me to "save and set me free."
I think you can sing it whatever way you wish although I prefer wretch as it gives a historial perspective and condition of it's author. You just have to explain the background of some hymns to the modern audience. (the author was a repentent slave trader if memory serves me correct. He probably felt like a wretch!)
Can we now present Duncan and Iker too???? ughhh
prayers to ++KJS, not an easy job.
Bob
Indeed, Lisa was much kinder about it than I was.
Yes, Paul, thanks. I hope you're right, and I know how reluctant the courts are to go into such things as the content of a particular faith. I don't know enough about corporate law to do anything here but intuit. However, I think the AAC playbook was written by some very smart people, probably very smart lawyers. What you already know is that, here, I'm asking for action against those bishops in those dioceses that haven't made it as far as JDS. I ask, because I suspect that JDS and those parishes that do not wish to "remain Episcopal" may prevail in their locations.
None of this is intended to take away from the joy of faithful Episcopalians in DiocSJ. If you have read my un-even posts here, you already know that, too.
Best,
I second that Lisa!
Let's give thanks today!
Epiphany Blessings to ALL...
Dear Samantha,
Good to hear from you! I can hardly wait for the meeting on the 26th. Yes, we should all wear buttons so we can meet each other! Your SW is a friend of mine and a lovely person. I am sure this is a huge relief to all of you!
Epiphany Blessings,
This moved me to tears the second I read the headline. Pretty rare thing for this boardroom-battered gal.
Leslie :-) what kinda recipe you want to commemorate this milestone? A bittersweet occasion, to be sure.
Love to all of you in SJ - and Ft. Worth, and Pittsburgh, and all the places that aren't in the news so often.
Br. William,
John David's response won't change a thing. He can no longer function sacerdotally as an Episcopal clergy person. That means the 10 "Remain Episcopal" congregations in San Joaquin do not have to recognize his authority as a bishop any longer.
10 congregations as of today...5 a couple of weeks ago...and 3 a few weeks before that.
This is significant only to the Episcopalians. It is the first step towards placing a new bishop and a new standing committee in the NEW Episcopal Diocese of San Jaoquin.
This is a resurrection. Of course we will rejoice.
Hi Lynn,
The chicken was awesome!!! The pudding cake we are making tomorrow.
I think we should celebrate with a recipe for a yummy chile!!! Don't ask me why? It just sounds good.
Epiphany Blessings,
Lots of glee here.
You're just seeing what you *want* to see, BabyBlue. I said "So sad" at 9:32 (before you commented), and that's what I meant.
Lord have mercy!
sapb --
I KNEW that was you. You and I know each other. I am still "hiding" behind my screen name for now. But let me just say that the dancing at the Feast of Santa Lucia was awesome! I saw you quoted in an article again today and I was SO happy to read of CTK's vestry's decision. You will see us soon. When is the Riverbank stop on the "Listening Tour"?
Blessings!
Dear Fr. Jake,
And REJOICE we shall!!! This blog is such a blessing.
Ah, Paul A., having seen Elizabeth Kaeton's blog, I think I understand what you're saying.
However, my position is that the arrogance of the Reasserters is that, in saying that particular phrase, they believe that they don't sin. Of course, they do, and what they're doing now is a vast and hateful sin, and, being justly punished for it (as opposed to this adolescent whinging about persecution that the Reasserters go on with), they need to be slapped right back in the face with their own justification for well over 30 years of making life hell for homosexuals, women and liberals in general.
In short, what I'm telling BabyBlue, et al. is "You've cast your bread on the waters and are getting it back tenfold -- stop your complaining."
Dear Lost sheep, I am not exactly certain of the Listening Tour Stop,date and time but would recc you contact Remain Episcopal as they are organizing. Yes, the Festival was wonderful. The doors are wide open for all at CTK, always has been, always will be. Thanks be to God.See you soon, Samantha
Thank you, Samantha. I sent RE an e-mail before I posted here, but thought I'd try asking you as well. I will watch for their response. I imagine they'll be adding CTK to their list of Episcopal parishes soon on the RE website. At least, I hope so.
=)
does anyone know IF the remainder can now go back to their respective churches??? what happens here since the bish is losing, or has lost, his ability to lead his flock except for administerial functions?
do they get the pews back or not?
just wondering. i mean if he has no authority etc., then seems to me the argument over church property (gosh would have been hice if ++Katherine would have instructed him to return the keys immediately... lol) at least in terms of WHO gets to use it is moot? no authority = no sacraments...
in reality, what does this MEAN for those remaining?
this is not my bailiwick (and tonight, spelling may not be either:) so i would appreciate if someone can explain.
I think the 22nd is our Listening Stop Day. Not sure of the time yet.
Cany,
Great Questions. I'll be watching for the answers. In the meantime I am celebrating!
Blessings,
Someone at SF finally said something intelligent. This will be an issue for Rowan Williams to rescind JDS's invitation to Lambeth. He's an irregular functioning bishop if he continues to act on behalf of South America.
I echo the concerns of others who fear that the best this will get is a swift kick back from Mr. Schofield about +++Katherine having no jurisdiction.
I would like to think that this is simply an opening volley to see what he will actually do. I also want to believe that this is merely a formality which signals "gloves off" before a series of actual legal maneuvers to get back property. I'm sure that +++Katherine could now care less what Schofield does with himself, as long as he does it on his own property and in his own space.
As an addendum to that, I offer some thoughts on my blog: http://vicarofdigby.blogspot.com
Chike! Well done! Congratulations!
What's next on your agenda?
It is important to start the process with Duncan and Iker before their conventions vote to join Southern Cone.
No, Ormonde, it would never do to give the people the vote. They might vote the wrong way.
Chike---what wonderful news!! Congratulations, and welcome back.
Mark---although I loathe that phrase with the white-hot passion of a thousand burning suns, I thought your use of it was really funny. ;-)
As for JDS---I'll just echo JCF. Lord have mercy....on him and all those he's hurt in this nightmare.
Fr. Bill; I think that ++Katherine cares a great deal about David Schofield. she is a very caring person and from what I can tell, "good" Christian. Both of those things makes me think that, whatever actions she had to take in her capacity as chief bishop of this church, she hurts for David.
Jake Jake |01.12.08 - 1:19 am | ----- I prefer to say "A new beginning for the OLD and CONTINUING DSJ." As far as I'm concerned, any "new' DSJ is the one the SC seems to be attempting to establish. ICICBW. :)
I need to apologize to everyone for the joy I expressed over yesterday's announcement. My personal feelings short circuited my Christian soul.
Chike, Yay, Bet you're feelin it's about time. And, welcome back!! :)
Grace.
sapb: You all have been in my prayers, but I didn't think that I knew anyone "on the ground" in SJ-- until I saw mention of CTK in the Episcopal Life article, and realized that I knew your priest once upon a time (back in Indiana). He's a keeper. Please say hello, and tell him that he's also on my prayer list now, by name. And I'm glad to hear that you all are going forth so courageously.
Chike: I don't really know you (though have read a lot of your posts in the past) and I, too, would like to say congrats on your achievement. I'll bet it feels soooo good to have some time on your hands for a change!
Maybe someone has pointed this out (I haven't read comments since last night) but look what George Carey said yesterday at Saint Martin's Church, Houston (a massive church that must have megatoons of money):
"If I were in my successor's shoes, what I would be wanting to do is say that the American House of Bishops must commit itself to the Windsor Covenant and be wholehearted about that," Carey said of the 2004 report calling for the moratorium. "Around the Windsor Covenant we can actually find a way to deepen the dialogue and get people there.
COVENANT!!!! Did you see that? He said: COVENANT, not REPORT. Now they are elevating publicly the Windsor Report to the level of a COVENANT. Say it long enough and it really will become the Ten Commandments and replace the bible. This is frightening. (Hence, the frenzied shouting of the word.)
Well done Chike.
Well done ++Katharine.
Glee? No, BB, relief. Did you really expect TEC to let him abscond with an entire diocese and recognize him as the TEC Bishop at the same time?
Absurd.
Lee, yes. Covenant = power.
Dispiriting, but not a surprise.
LPR
Thinking Anglicans made an important observation about the ENS report: The three senior members of the House of Bishops gave their consents to the inhibition. This included Bishops Leo Frade of Southeast Florida, Peter Lee of Virginia and Don Wimberly of Texas. This is the same +Wimberly who convened the so-called meeting of Windsor Bishops.
When I was approached a couple of years ago by my friends who wanted me to belong to their gay motorcycle club, I thought about it for several months before I decided to join. Since I ride, and these are my friends I thought, sure why not .... But thinking about it more, I understood what their asking me really meant and I was truly honored. Those friends of mine and this 50 year old motorcycle club have participated in fundraisers to fight bigotry, AIDS and homelessness, they also are the pioneers for equality and social justice and without groups like that together with the drag queens who rioted in New York in 1969 at the Stonewall bar their would be no Gene Robinsons, or me for that matter. And so I joined and feel honored. It is my hope that one day I might join TEC as well.
Long live my motorcycle club and TEC!
James,
I meant "new." The former Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin was quite different from what this new one will be. It is a new beginning; a fresh start. The people of San Joaquin are now free to seek a new vision of what God is calling them to become.
I am rejoicing with them, and do not apologize for it. I feel no sadness. Bp. Schofield brought this on himself by his voluntary choice to leave. Consequently, he is no longer my concern. So now I choose to rejoice that the captives have been set free.
"So now I choose to rejoice that the captives have been set free."
Jake | Homepage | 01.12.08 - 11:43 am | #
Praise the Lord!
It truly does feel like freedom this morning. Praise God!
It's about time our leadership took some action! Good for them! God bless the faithful Episcopalians of San Jaoquin!
Congratulations, Chike! Well done!
Many participants in these pages have castigated the Presiding Bishop for delaying the inhibition of Schofield. Some are still doing that, even though the latest information shows that she asked the Review Commission to begin their consideration on December 17 but that they delayed until January 9. I hope those who have criticized her will reconsider and support her. (My personal belief is that her performance in office has been very close to superb.)
While I am not a member of TEC, but as an outsider, it seems that some patience and compassion for those who left would serve TEC well. This has hit my family very hard. As you can read, I am gay and I have an aunt in Oakhurst CA who has sided with the breakaway group. This division not only involves church members but close family members. Be patient; TEC is on the right side of history and what Jesus taught.... but be strong as well.
Very happy for you Chike!
Bet you're pleased!
Well said Wolfstan.
I've only lived in the DoSJ for 3 years...but the hostility I experienced in the first congregation I attended did a whammy on my faith. It's wasn't the obvious, bumber sticker kind of hate, it was the triumphant I've-got-God's-grace-and-you're-going-to-hell kind of hate.
I'm just as joyous as the next person that the PB & HoB have finally taken action. But in addition to all the legal and eccelsiastical machinations that will take place over the next months and years, we do have to be cognizant of those who walked away from TEC with JDS, who will have the scales fall from their eyes and realize the man is whack.
It will not be an easy path to follow (reconciliation and re-establishing trust never is). Listening to the stories of families and congregations that have been split apart is a testament to the pain that has been experienced.
For my two cents, I recommend that Bob Moore etal think very clearly and pastorally about all those caught up in this very dynamic and shifting scene of loyalties.
Greg:
Please come and join the Episcopal Church!
If you're out riding, you don't have to ditch the leathers for us. Just come as you are.
In some churches the priest does a Blessing of the Bikes every spring. It's yet one more way The Episcopal Church Welcomes You!
I have been a critic of the Presiding Bishop, in part for her lack of transparency: for using spokespeople instead of speaking directly to DSJ herself; for doing things in secret that ought to have been done in the open. I believe she ought to have publicly announced that she was referring JDS to the Title IV Review Committee, and she ought to have gone to California herself.
Now we find out that some things have been done and the committee has issued its finding.
I said what I did because so many others were urging us to wait for behind-the-scenes actions, at a time when the laity had no idea whether anything was being done at all. In a time of crisis, people look for leadership; she gave us silence.
This is the typical operating mode of TEC bishops. Indeed, it mirrors the conniving of schismatic bishops, who do not want the light of day (much less the light of Christ) to shine upon their acts.
I've called for more light. I do not retract my criticism of the Presiding Bishop. I do applaud the actions she's taken, now that we finally know about them. It's been a month!
But now it's done. Let the healing begin!
The Fresno Bee has a report on Shofield's reaction here:
http://www.fresnobee.com/263/sto...ory/
317990.html
I can only hope that they don't attempt to prove their point by creating a confrontation at the front door of some local parish/mission.
Josh, I understand your criticism, but I also understand--or think I do--the need for keeping one's cards close to the chest in high-stakes games. We see now that ++KJS and the Review Committee have been active throughout Advent, Christmas and early Epiphany in considering +JDS' departure from TEC. I would worry that publicizing their communications might invite increased political pressure on those conducting the review. The senior bishops are not the leading liberals of TEC; certainly some of their friends must be sympathetic to +JDS, +Iker and +R Duncan. I can easily imagine them struggling over +JDS' behavior. They surely would have appreciated the silence that permitted them greater freedom to consider and decide, just as we appreciate the decisions they made.
thanks for posting that,
Fresno Mark.
sadly, i think it is about what everyone expected.
sigh.
Jake is right; rejoicing at the news that our leadership is actively protecting the faithful from the predations of -Schofield and his henchmen is entirely appropriate. "Reasserters" who come here to accuse us of being "gleeful" are, as usual, projecting their own world view. Were the tables turned, they would have been not only gleeful but in-your-face triumphant, because that is their nature, and they cannot see beyond it.
Josh Indiana: I admire your sincerity, your enthusiasm, and your ability to take energetic action in support of your beliefs: witness the recent demonstration. I also respect your standing by your criticisms of the Presiding Bishop, although I do not share them. I admit that I have been hoping that she would quickly take some public action in support of the faithful in San Joaquin.
However, I agree with all that Pfalz Prophet said (2:11 p.m.) about the necessity of setting things up privately before going public, because of the ticklish nature of the situation and the possible precedents it might set (re: Pittsburgh, Fort Worth, etc.). I would also add that the refusal of many church hierarchs to recognize the legitimacy of female ordination could have led to much controversy and confusion throughout this nation and the rest of the world if she had made public statements before being assured of support by the Review Committee. It seems clear, by her deputation of Canon Moore to represent her in San Joaquin, that she was keeping closely involved in the situation even though it wasn't yet advisable to go public.
You have said, "Let the healing begin." I hope all of us can join you, not only in wishing for it but also in making it happen.
Heidi said, " I think our Presiding Bishop is under soo very much pressure. She was in Birmingham today, and as I have been told, was asked a baited, rediculous question by a very conservative priest - what did she think about the change of the wording in the hymn, 'Amazing Grace' from 'wretch' to 'soul' like me? She recovered from the question to say that he could sing it however he wanted."
Sorry about being so late to this tangent. But what was the context of the question? The Hymnal 1982 (#671) uses "wretch." Did this guy go to a service somewhere and the rector or the organist changed the word or something?
If you're petty and rude, perhaps somebody like that should make a comment to the rector on the way the door. But complaining to the presiding bishop about variations in hymn words (which exist by the hundreds in the hymnal) at some service seems anal way, way, way beyond compulsive.
dr.primrose
dr. primrose,
Aside from your conclusion.......it's seems to me that the question was about the objective doctrine of the atonement - one among many. This is close to the heart of the issue(s) at hand. The AAC has rejected all other "hearings" of the Gospel. (Yes, I'm completely serious. Just go worship with any of "those" congregations. Witness: The objective doctrine of the atonement was the way God awakened me. But it's not enough.)
Best,
The words to many hymns were changed identically in the hymnals of most or all of the major denominations sometime shortly after WWII, so the newer editions show the changes and they don't reflect some doctrinal changes of the Episcopal Church.
Chike! Good for YOU! Gold STARS!
Have you're thinking/believing and religious "perceiving" skills moved upward along with your NEW and fancy degree?
I'm wondering, have you discovered, that persecuting/prosecuting LGBT Christians/Anglicans/others in Nigeria is CLEARLY spiritually/emotionally ugly and totally unacceptable both in and outside of Church?
Of course, I realize that discriminating/abominating and fear/hatemongering don't always have much to do with a persons education...it's a "learned" thing, and it is a reflection more of a persons personal character but one does wonder if they started out that way?
Just read +Akinola, for example, for a really big, all-over, facial WINCE:
http://frjakestopstheworld.blogs...ys-
produce.html
and, +Akinola supports the deceiving and attempted thieving of +John David Schofield too!
I'm certain that Davis Mac-Iyalla
of "Changing Attitudes Nigeria" knows (and has known), like you, lots of spiritually/emotionally healthy members of the Nigerian Anglican Church who are both formally educated and not-so-much.
Welcome back Chike!
Thanks be to the God who joins us in WELCOMING EVERYONE at The Episcopal Church/Anglican Communion (everyone, means everyone)
I just have to say how nice it is to come here and see that while not everyone agrees on 100% of things 100% of the time, this arena comes across as loving and Christ-like. I was just reading some comments posted at another site (that will remain nameless) and there is so much hatred, paranoia and mean-spiritedness. I like to try to read the same stories from varying sides, but I don't know if I can keep going to that other site. My husband quit reading it a few weeks ago and doesn't understand why I go back there at all. Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone here. I am so glad I was pointed in the direction of Jake's Place.
Congratulations, Chike!
¡Felicidades, Chike! Good for you!
Well Done, Chike. I hope you savor your accomplishment!
Mark---although I loathe that phrase with the white-hot passion of a thousand burning suns, I thought your use of it was really funny. ;-)
We are all members of Christ's body -- I guess I'm just the middle finger.
ROFL! You are so funny, Mark! I'm really glad you post here, because I enjoy your wit and wisdom.
Thank you, fs!
Although, I'm not used to being accused of wisdom.
You have exceptional clarity, Mark; you go straight to the heart of the matter. And you have an almost OT flavor of righteous anger at certain kinds of evil (imo) that I share with you, although I don't have the cajones to express it as powerfully as you. Your voice is needed in these conversations.
I blush.
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