I have read and agree to comments policy as posted here www.informationclearinghouse.info/c1.htm
There is a difference between the Holocaust and what has been happening with the Palestinian situation, and that is that the Holocaust came to an end. What the Palestinians have been going through started 60 years ago and continues unabated today, with Israeli influence on the US government.
Israel will start a nuclear war before it gives up the Holy Land.
Ain't that the truth? Jeff, you've got that right.
As the first to comment, let me relate my personal experience to demonstrate how pervasive the Zionist attempt to control the thinking of Americans can go.
As the founder and artistic director of a community theatre for the past 43 years, I am now proclaimed to be an Anti-Semite. In founding the theatre 43 years ago I chose for my first production a little known play called "Tevya And His Daughters", years later to become "Fidler On The Roof". I did this in an effort to attract the support of the cultured Jewish community, without which I felt any chance for success would be limited. It worked. Over the years, I have produced no fewer than 26 Jewish plays earning the respect and admiration of that Jewish community. I have multiple trees planted in Israel in my name. Would it not be difficult to think of me as an
anti-semite?
BUT, to the contrary. Because I dared voice my objection to Zionist activities in Palestine and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, the local Rabbi is convinced that I am indeed guilty of what is now known the "New anti-semitism", that is any disapproval of Zionist actions or any sympathy for the Palestinians
At the age of 83, I am beyond concern for my reputation, but I would caution any and all Americans that the Zionist strategy, far from an attempt to curb anti-semitism, is to indeed meant to increase it. Their purpose would be to portray themselves as the victim and thereby justify their aggression. We must not allow the devious strategy to succeed.
Prof. Dr. Y. Leibowitz spoke of the
"JUDENNAZI"
Jews acting as Nazis... bad news indeed!
Top-ranking IDF Sadists
Gilad Atzmon, Palestine Think Tank
We learn from the Israeli press that a criminal investigation has been launched against the soldier caught on tape firing towards a bound Palestinian. However, there is a detail the Israeli press in English is reluctant to share with us. The shooting soldier was not just an ordinary low-ranking infantry recruit, he was a First Sergeant. But it goes much further, the soldier who is caught on video holding the bound Palestinian detainee is no less than a regiment commander, an IDF Lieutenant Colonel.
In case someone fails to understand, it is a high-ranking Israeli officer who is caught on video holding a handcuffed man as a still target for the merciless vengeance of another IDF soldier...
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m45908&...&hd=&size=1&
l=e
HAL
It took you all this time to find out what these dogs are like?Go to Israel and cut down the trees.
What a sick 'tribal' perversion of all and any civilised values
While they kill butcher maim abuse they are infecting their souls and they SHALL reap what they have been sowing on a defenceless people in Historic Palestine
Those zionist Jonnies -cum -lately through terror and wholesale murder and ethnic cleansing are messing with their
very souls and minds and they SHALL reap what they have been sowing for over sixty bloodsoaked years
Israel is a nation founded on terror by terrorists and living by terrorising the local population of Palestine and
I challege ANYONE to contradict what I am saying based ON THE FACTS AND TRUTH OF HISTORY AND CONTEMPORANEOUS EVIDENCE AS EXPLAINED BY PROFESSOR ILAN PAPPE AND PRESIDENT CARTER AND MANY MANY OTHERS
THIS CONTROL WILL BURST AND IMPLODE ON ALL WHO CONSPIRE IN THIS HORRENDOUS HIDEOUS AND WRETCHED STATE OF AFFAIRS IN PALESTINE!
ONLY A QUESTION OF TIME
MARK MY WORDS!!
Report: Israel committed more than 51 violations since the truce started
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/...ctwbm%2fPg14%
3d
US: Israeli settlement talk 'not helpful'
Jul 24,2008
WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House on Thursday declined to comment specifically on Israeli plans to expand a settlement in the occupied Jordan Valley but said in general such talk was "not helpful."
"We don't think talk of additional settlements is helpful. I don't know about that particular settlement," said spokeswoman Dana Perino.
"We have said that it's not helpful; it doesn't inspire confidence when the Palestinians and the Israelis are trying to work together on a two-state solution," she added.
Earlier, a senior Israeli defense ministry official told AFP on condition of anonymity that Israel would expand the settlement, in defiance of Palestinian and international calls to freeze such activity.
"We are currently in the process of constructing 20 housing units in the Jordan Valley settlement of Maskiot," the official said.
Local authorities in the Jordan Valley on Wednesday published a tender for the construction, he said, but the move still requires the final go-ahead from Defence Minister Ehud Barak.
"There is no reason for him not to give the authorization," the official said.
The international community has repeatedly urged Israel to freeze all settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and east Jerusalem, saying it hampers efforts to achieve peace with the Palestinians.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/
2008...tlementuswhouse
What I cannot fathom is how the spiritual leaders of Judaism could so easily abandon thousands of years of progress beyond the ancient hill-tribe religion in order to champion this modern evil of territorial Zionism. I cannot excuse the rabbis who have conflated the notions of spiritual Zionism and territorial Zionism in order to to make the unacceptable acceptable.
If someone actually wants to know Israel, to read the Bible is a must.Only the Bible says the truth about these chosen people.It is not only a chosen people but peculiar.Not for themselves but because the Bible and history proves that without the God of Israel, there would be no Israel.There is a great plan for both Jews and Arabs in God´s mind.Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God.
"The Christian Canon of St. George's Cathedral in Jerusalem" is Reverend Naim Ateek, a '48 refugee and founder of SABEEL-Arabic for THE WAY-and they provide Reality Tours throughout the West Bank.
On one of my 5 trips to oPt since June 2005, while on a Sabeel Reality Tour, I was introduced to Sabeel’s Contemporary Way of Cross. The Sabeel way, transforms the traditional Christian tradition of meditating upon the journey that Christ took after his condemnation as he carried his cross to where he was crucified with an updated meditation on empire and occupation.
In Jerusalem there are fourteen plaques along The Via Delarosa hanging on the walls of buildings depicting where Christ may have fallen three times, meets his mother, is stripped, nailed and dies.
The Contemporary Way suggests fourteen reflections beginning with 1948, The Nabka: The Catastrophe which followed the failure of the UN partition plan of ‘47 when the Irgun and Stern Gang [Zionist terrorist groups] depopulated 400 villages and forced 726,000 Palestinians to flee to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt.
Station Two reflects on those refugees and the 460,000 more that fled during the War of 1967. Currently there are 675,670 registered refugees in the West Bank, 938,531 in Gaza and over two million in Arab countries who have never received compensation and have been denied the right to return as guaranteed in Articles 13 and 15 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in UN Resolution 194.
On November 3, 2006, Reverend Naim Ateek, a 21st century prophet addressed over 330 international ecumenical Christians who had gathered in Jerusalem in the Notre Dame Conference Center for Sabeel’s 6th International Conference: The Forgotten Faithful.
He sent chills through me when he stated, “Israel will not survive unless it does justice! The situation is deteriorating and we must frustrate Israel’s plans and actions because they are not built on justice. All we are asking for is that they honor International Law! Israel is afraid of International law and this proves something is very wrong with Israel. We want Israel to live in peace and with security. The only way is honoring International law. That is the bottom line and what we work and pray for.”
Reverend Ateek’s classic "Justice and Only Justice" laid the foundation of a theology that addresses the conflict over Palestine and explores the political as well as the religious, biblical and theological dimensions. From a position of faith, Reverend Ateek seeks solutions based on justice, peace, nonviolence and reconciliation.
On November 8, 2006 Reverend Ateek spoke again, “In Israel officially speaking of Palestinians is taboo: we are referred to as Arab Christians. When I say the Holy Land I include both Israel and Palestine. Ultimately only God knows about the future of Christianity in this place. We live in the scientific world and God has given us wisdom, knowledge, technology to be used for good and our future and destiny are in Gods hands.
“There are many red lights; external and internal dangers. What can we do at the grass roots level? The Palestinian Christian community must rise above petty denominational differences. The impending dangers force us to ask what can we do, what must we do?
“There is no future in isolation or passivity. Our futures are all linked together. There is an urgent need to articulate and work with other faiths, especially Islam. Our future depends on good relations with all our brothers and sisters. We need a Committee of Christian and Muslim leaders to dialogue and work together to confront militant extremist fundamentalism.
“Our relation with Israel is the most important issue for there can be no peace without justice. There can be no effective policy without ending the occupation in accordance with all UN Resolutions. The city of Jerusalem must be shared and there must be a just solution for refugees.
“Pressure on Israel must be done with nonviolent needs and the way is the way Christ taught: nonviolent and forgiving. The achievement of peace is not the end; but the beginning of reconciliation. The survival of Christianity in the Holy land is through true democracy. We must avoid the minority complex. We cannot depend on the good will of people in power. We want to be protected by a constitution with full citizenship and nationality must be combined. Only in Israel is there a distinction between nationality and citizenship. Only good democracy can guarantee all citizens are treated equally under the same law.”
“What can the West do? There is an urgent need for education about the roots of Christians in Palestine and to challenge the myths. Seek out Palestinian Christians in your midst and relate to them. Be aware of Palestinian concerns for justice and human rights. Work for a just solution of the conflict which is equal human rights for all. Support projects to increase the Christian witness: visit the Holy land and meet with Palestinian Christians. Forge closer links with churches in the West and in the Holy Land. Challenge Christian Zionism. Think Creatively!
“In the beginning the Jesus movement was very small. It began with 12 committed citizens. It began with love and Christ addressed his followers: FEAR NOT little flock! You are the salt of the earth and the light of the world. To capture the essence of what Christians should be is to be salt and light. You don’t need a lot of salt to add flavor and even a small light can illuminate the way for many.
“To be salt and light is to be truthful, honest, have integrity and to be of service and do it with humility. Salt affects change: it is active, never passive. To be a light is a global challenge and when the light is seen clearly so is the glory of God. Sabeel means the way, and the way is to love all your neighbors and labor on with God.”-excerpted from my MEMOIRS in Occupied Territory
There is an Israeli Resistance, just like Bonhoeffer.The problem is it's not well-known.
Hal O'Leary:
I appreciate the generosity and sincerity of your remarks. I had to think of Jacques Ranciere, his "Hatred of Democracy," and the long evolutionary process of marginalizing discourse as a heresy as declaimed by new hoodwinking orthodoxies: Milner, Levy, etc.
Orthodoxies that malevolently obscure privilege and power through any nefarious means and block the multitudes from understanding, let alone achieving, their genuine desires. That would really scare the bad guys: yes, totally!
We do it here with mainstream discourse and the two-edged sword of political correctness and disinformation, dis-education: e.g., rapper Nas pillorying Fox's racism yesterday while the outdoor ticker behind him read "Jerusalem will be Israel's capitol, Obama says."
Long and short: Tartuffe's downfall is pure fiction, but we are all Ghelderode's Pantaglaize if we don't work at the truth.
Thanks! Good luck!
I firmly believe the zionists WERE the Nazis. Compare what they are doing today to the Palestinians with what the say happened to them under the Nazis. They haven't even bothered to change the playbook.
Sadly, we see Palestinian bodies, but no one has found the 6M supposedly killed jews in Germany. Everyone should know that the # of 6M was necessary in the talmud prediction of a homeland in israel. The jews just fulfilled their prophecy on the backs of the men and women of the military and the innocents that were killed in Germany .
They use the same tortures that they say were used on them--with no proof--the ovens were built AFTER the war.
Evil abounds in the zionist world, and sadly they have bought and paid for our politicians that bend blindly to the will of israel. Will we ever learn? "Christians" are so easily led. The actions the accept from the terrorist state of israel should make Christians think--but they are idiots too.
The Jews are masters of deception and the Christians have been unknowingly fighting their battles for HUNDREDS of years.
Whilst we are constantly reminded of their ridiculously over exaggerated losses during WWII they have blocked all news about the mass killing that the Jews have been responsible for ...
Look at the leading communists - Jews. Look at the who started and managed the communist concentration camps - Jews! See the TENS OF MILLIONS of people that were killed in those those camps?
Why, Paul Craig Roberts! You old anti-Semite, you!
Don't you know that ALL of America LOVES Israel? Obama said so just the other day!
It's my contention that they have us wired with nukes under their command. It's the only thing that could explain or excuse the lickspittle groveling of our leaders to this hateful and discriminatory state.
That, or we just hate Arabs, too.
Which reminds me...if they hate Arabs so much...why the fuck don't they just move to New York?!
I see these completely one sided arguments as part of the problem. We are entirely on one side or the other. First we demonized Palastians to the point where anyone who defended them was a monstor. Now we are demonizing Israel! How does this help? Does it add to the spirit of compromise and peace? NO! It just backs each side further into its corner. I would think people who were truly peacemakers would have a bit more sophistication!
p.s. Is it possible that Israel has the most clearly documented human rights abuses because they are a basically open society. I can't imagine they are worse than Burma or other dictatorships. Perhaps Western groups don't have as much asses to those countries as Israel allows! Any statement can be sensationalized when all the facts are not in!
Hal O'Leary: "...the Zionist strategy, far from an attempt to curb anti-semitism, is to indeed meant to increase it. Their purpose would be to portray themselves as the victim and thereby justify their aggression."
Exactly.
Israel still holds the record for the most United Nation's sanctions! Most of these sanctions are for War crimes committed against Israel's neighbors!
The United States steps in and protects Israel every time with our 'no' vote (veto) This complicity makes us equally guilty, but most Americans are not equipped to accept this truth!
(In another article the Chinese censors confiscated all the papers that published pictures of the wounded at Tienanmen! I see no difference in this Chinese action and George Bush not allowing pictures of the flag draped coffins of his victims!)
Jimmy Carter was right on but is pretty much neglected because of the "swift boat" type campaign against him!
The truth will eventually come out, however, justice, having been delayed so long will never be served!
Chubbyvortexresister,
Israel operates under military censorship. I suggest reading:
The Information Blockade
The Prism Between Middle Eastern Reality and Americans
...Barry Congrove, assistant cameraperson on that trip, completed his form and hands it to the clerk. The guy looks at the form and narrows his eyes at the five of us. “Which of you will be handling camera equipment?” Barry puts up his hand. “There’s a new law. Foreign camera operators can only have credentials for two weeks.” He proceeds to explain that the videographers union persuaded the government to protect Israeli jobs by limiting the amount of time a given project could use non-Israeli camera operators.
On its face this seems pretty reasonable, and it would be reasonable if the Army service requirements were different in Israel. Virtually every male between 18 and 50 performs active duty with the Israeli military once a year. Which means that any Israeli cameraman you hire may have—just the week before—been kicking the shit out of the people you’re filming.
American networks abide by the law. We would frequently see convoys of Israeli crews in their armored Volvos rolling in from Jerusalem after clashes.
The implications are profound of this policy that “only our people are allowed to interpret our image to the world.” The image conduit to the U.S. is, by law, narrowed to the perspective of Israeli reservists. This is not to say that every Israeli cameraperson is a slack-jawed lackey to the Army. On the other hand, if you are raised in a segregationist society your world view is going to be shaped by your environment. The obscene is normal and you may treat it as such in your work.
Mr. Credentials said one other very interesting thing. “You don’t need credentials in the Territories, only if you want to film inside Israel.” This is a classic bit of Orwellian speak. He may as well have said “we don’t object to you putting your tongue in that light socket.” Press credentials are the only protection against the Army that you’ve got in the Territories. And a puny bit of protection it is...
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
m...o_blockade.html
Guerrero:
not all zionists are jews, just as all jews are not zionists. my jewish family comes from italy with a tradition of speaking out against zionism and occupation.
TRUE INDEED!
Why?
Which reminds me...if they hate Arabs so much...why they don't just move to New York?!
Jeff | 07.25.08 - 2:02 pm |
"There is a difference between the Holocaust and what has been happening with the Palestinian situation, and that is that the Holocaust came to an end."
Jeff;
What Holocaust? With all due respect, there is a myriad of information now proving that the Holocaust never occurred. Jews adamantly, and I do mean adamantly, refuse to allow anyone to go in and do a thorough forensic archeological- anthropological analysis of all the so-called gas chambers and death camps. Why? Furthermore, Nazi Germany was an invention of: The Jews.
Jews fortuitously transformed themselves from Russian-Bolshevik murderers (upwards to 100 million non Jews)to victims of a German holocaust. How convenient. In some of the "death camp" locations, Jews have claimed that 1-2 million bodies are buried in pits the size of a football field. Incredible!
Read it and weep:
Jewish Perpetrators of the holocaust against Christian Russia transform themselves into "survivors" of "the Holocaust"
http://www.revisionisthistory.or.../
communist.html
Jews started and dominated Nazi Germany:
http://www.prothink.org/2007/12/...ran-
nazism.html
http://just-another-inside-job.b...tlers-
army.html
http://sos-at.blogspot.com/2006/...-of-
israel.html
Jews Kill More Than Any Other Group: Just ask Russians and Eastern Europeans:
http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles...3342999,00.html
Stalin was Jewish:
http://judicial-inc.biz/
Russian_..._45_million.htm
Jewish Created Gulags in Eastern Europe:
http://judicial-inc.biz/
excursio...on_to_gulag.htm
Starving millions of Russians and Eastern Europeans to death (to install Communism) was a favorite mode of murder for Jews; also murdering millions of people in China to install Communism – another crime committed by Jews:
http://judicial-inc.biz/JB.Campbell.htm
Also, please take time to watch this 10 minute video about the Holocaust. 6 million Jews went missing in Eastern Europe during the late 30's and early 40's.....What happened to them? Most (99.9%) emmigrted from Europe and settled in Israel. (Transfer agreement ring a bell?) These same Jews conveniently changed their surnames from Yiddish to Hebrew. It's a beyond a miracle, and reality for that matter, that Israel suddenly had a population of approximately 6 million Jews circa 1940's.
Where Did All the Jews Go in Europe (hint: Israel)
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaus...ges/
29_mov.html
The entire series:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/
Also, please read these books as they prove definitively and concretely that the Holocaust was a hoax-swindle (and that Hitler was funded by Jews):
- Synagogue of Satan
- Barbarians Inside the Gates (Black
Book of Bolshevism)
Why in the world would the Jews continue to keep these Holocaust fairy tales going....because it gives them power, control, special dispensation, and special treatment in the world while simultaneously garnering unending sympathy towards them. What comes to mind: this behavior and lie is morally reprehensible, despicable and unethical.
Everyday in some small way, we uncover another layer of lies, fabrications, subterfuges, deceptions, and general b.s. that the Jews keep perpetuating to keep themselves in power.
The truth will set us free here in the U.S. from ZOG-Jewish-Zionist-Israeli occupation and control; and the truth will set the people of the Middle East free and the rest of the world free of ZOG-Jewish-Zionist-Israeli occupation and control.
Cheers and peace.
Lawrence Boxall, I can answer your question. All you have to do is realize that those who practice Judaism are not the Israelites or Hebrews of the Bible but are actually Esau-Edom, an abhorrent Turk o-Mongolian group, returning from Babylon, bringing the abhorrent occult Babylonian religion and usurping control in Palestine. If you remember Jesus called them serpents and sons of the devil. In spite of their claims that they worship the same God as the Christians they are ruled by the Babylonian Talmud which calls Jesus Christ a bastard son of a Jewish whore conceived during her minstral cycle. Don'i believe the Judeo-Christian churches (virgin-whores)claim that they are the Chosen people. Chosen for destruction perhaps.
WOW, Paul Craig Roberts. Thank you for being a real American.
I believe there is a plan of neocons and zionists to bring the USA down as worlds most powerful nation and make illegal israel the most powerful and whelthist nation on earth for starters and israeli world controll in the end. I also believe israel will fail and be shut down just like Hitlers nazi mob was. I pray Americans will wake up soon and get our country back with not one more doller to or for israel and not one more droop of American blood for israel. We can only take America back by voteing to dump the incumbent in every election and never vot for a republican or damocrat for president.
That will leave AIPAC spy network with out tools to dominate the USA other than by terror in which case Americans will fight back like no insergents ever have. Taking zionist suspect out on sight. Yes there will be much zion blood spilled all over the USA and I'd bet the rest of the worlds people will do the same. Then ther can be pecce on earth with law and honest justice world wide.
Quote below...
"We can have no 50-50 allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is nor an American at all."
BY - Theodore Rosseevelt
Above... not an American at all...
atheo | 07.25.08 - 2:36 pm |
atheo | 07.25.08 - 2:38 pm |
atheo | 07.25.08 - 2:41 pm |
atheo | 07.25.08 - 5:20 pm | #
Hey Wack-job start your own blog and post your cut 'n paste crap there instead of changing the subject on this PCR piece. Assuming you haven't noticed, there are some good comments relating to this article.
Go away now freak boy - participate or fly away like a good little gnat!
Your Pal,
We're going to have act directly to remove their stranglehold on the media.
Angel Gabriel doth protest too loudly.
25/07/08 "ICH" censorship at ICH ?
are you starting to fear AIPAC?
My postings are fair, honest and truthfull and my opinions Are American first, last and only. So why are my postings removed when I come back to see them as well as postings aftger mine. It is called learning from one another by reading each others thoughts in postings. Or could it be that AIPAC spy networks hand is at work in ICH If so GOD help us all
Angel Gabriel I do not know who you are talking about BUT I do know you are not a very bright light bulb.
Does anyone see how Israli power in the US is tied in with the Central Bank?
People don't seem to grasp the power held by a central bank. Through its connection to corporations and politics it is stronger than the government. It can help set up a Jewish owned press and corporate power with loans that don't really need to be paid back,since it never really existed anyway,and the central bank is not in any way accountable to anyone.
In 1913 the sovereignty of the US was severely compromised. The system is naturally corrupt because the heart of it, the central bank, is essentially a scam. All the various tinkering with the financial system over the years has been in support of ongoing crime. Cylical economic downturns are planned and capitolized on.
Israel and it's lobby are tied in with the Federal Reserve, which is tied in with the Bank of England and the other European banks controlled by the aristocracy. These are the Illuminati, with their New World Order. They rule through proxies like the Masons, think tanks, foundations, the round table group, and all the functionaries in the corrupted political parties.
The other part of the picture is not as easy to understand; this is the US public and other groups who have never caught on to the mass duping and manipulation, who choose denial and who obediently jump at the opportunity to bomb some country.
Recently I saw a film/documentary by Peter Manning.* at a Palestininan fund raising evening.
There were people lined up waiting at the door hoping that some booking would not show.
In 2006, after ten years of stability, prosperity and relative peace, Lebanon was attacked by Israel. Lebanon Burning is a new documentary film about this invasion.
The film premiered at the 2008 Sydney Arab Film Festival but proved too controversial for Australian TV, having been rejected by the ABC and SBS as well as Channels 7, 9 and 10.
Israel's attack targeted civilian infrastructure including Beirut's airport and killed close to 1000 civilians. One million people were displaced from their homes and unexploded cluster bomblets mean some homes in Southern Lebanon remain uninhabitable. In Lebanon Burning the ordinary people of Lebanon tell their stories and provide us with a rivetting oral history of the recent past.
Essentially the film documented the pattern of bombing of Beirut after the third day. the first targets were the state of the art milk factory that the French had just finished building, a state of the art medical supply company, companies that had won contracts over Israeli based factories, the water pump that serviced a large area of agricultural production, including orange groves, and the main, ( only?) power station, which created the biggest environmental disaster s far in the Mediterranean.
They bombed the agricultural area with 'phosphorous' bombs which renders the soil sterile.
They bombed a very long, looked like a mile or so to me, recently completed bridge connecting two sections of Beirut
Keep in mind that the Lebanese have n air force, no way to resist this bombing.
Gives a whole new meaning to 'economic warfare'!
*Peter Manning, who directed Lebanon Burning, is a former Executive Producer of the ABC current affairs program 'Four Corners'. As a respected journalist and media commentator, Manning has criticised the public, government-led and media-driven hysteria about Australians known as 'people of Middle Eastern appearance'.
Manning has around thirty years of quality journalism behind him.
Producer Mohsen Safieddin has lived and worked in Adelaide, South Australia for over 13 years but his parents and most of his family still live in Lebanon where they suffered the effects of the 2006 war.
Manning's history in quality journalism goes back 30 years.
Shiloh, xzp and George: Could you both refrain yourselves from linking every last one of the insane ravings of paranoids from this website? Each one of you nutcases has a slightly different take on the bloodlines of Jews--such experts!!! Maybe you can get it published in Science magaine.
The rest of the posters are trying to have intelligent conversation here. You young men should get your heads examined.
Me thinks | 07.25.08 - 7:07 pm |
Do you???? Aww go-on!
another old US vet | 07.25.08 - 7:22 pm | #
I didn't know there were any left!
Refirex, I concur completely--the nexus of power lies in having the power to create and disseminate money. From that source all else flows.
Hence, any effort we might wish to see made in re-gaining control of the popular sovereignty of the u.s. would best begin by moving to take-over the Fed and its regional affiliates.
It should be remembered, however, that the u.s has a secret service, or s.s., which is charged with guarding the integrity of the nation's currency and its' systems.
These are the people who have taken over major portions of the US government including the Pentagon. The department of Homeland Security is headed by an Israeli citizen, Michael Chertoff (last name means "of the devil", go figure). We've seen Obama wearing the obligatory Jewish eating hat while praying for a photo-op at the Wailing Wall. If he picks a pure Zionist for his running mate, we'll all be wailing soon, since he will be a dead man walking. Ditto for McCain. Chertoff has actually been discussed as a possibility, along with Lieberman.
Step one...Limit all campaign donations to individuals only,no political action committees,no corporations.A person puts his name on a check for less than 500.00.This is a first step.Its true in Texas for state office.DeLay was nailed by that restriction.
If Israel goes down ,it will take the whole world with them.That is their plan.
The usual, Angel Gabriel AKA Dr Angel Gabriel AKA Angel Gabrielowitz AKA "beyond reproach."
Ladies and gents, this is a man who spends his days at work being a kicking boy. So when he shows up here, he contributes NOTHING but belligerence.
I, for one, do not want Atheo to go away, but I certainly wish you would!
REV. GORDON WINROD, in his book The Keys to Christian Understanding,pages 114 - 115
"Judaism does not know Jesus Christ. Judaism hates Jesus Christ. When St. Paul was in Judaism, before he was converted to Christianity, he hated Jesus Christ and persecuted Christians and Christianity."
Paul said: "You have heard of my earlier career in Judaism - how furiously I persecuted the Church of God, and made havoc of it; and how in devotion to Judaism I out-stripped many men of may own age among my people, being far more zealous than they for the tradition of my forefathers." (Gal. 1:13, 14, Weymouth Translation)
While in Judaism, Paul persecuted Christians because of his intense hatredfor Christians and because of his conformity to the tradition of the fathers.This shows that the tradition of teachings of Judaism are filled with hatefor Christians.
Few people know of this because they do not carefully read their Scripturesand because of the great pains which Jews have take to deceive the Christians.Care has been exerted by the Jews to hide their ECONOMIC-POLITICAL conspiracyfor complete world domination UNDER high sounding words that have a "RELIGIOUS"ring in the ears of Christians.
The Jews use such "religious" sounding words as "the Jewishfaith," "the Jewish religion," "Jewish spiritual values,""Jewish religious doctrines," and like phrases which deceive andlead the unlearned into total equanimity.
Behind this mask of religiosity stands a complete plan for world government,world power, world conquest, a Jewish kingdom of this world, and the destructionof Christianity.
ST. JUSTIN, martyr stated in 116 A. D.
"The Jews were behind all the persecutions of the Christians. They wandered through the country everywhere hating and undermining the Christian faith."
POPE CLEMENT VIII
"All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor.
Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."
Money talks but stemming the money flow roars.
Israel is the recipient of the largest amount of American annual foreign aid. Moreover,unlike other recipients whose foreign aid is allotted as it is used, Israel gets is paid UP FRONT and it is banked and the Ashkenazim Zionists collect the interest which the U.S., already up to its throat in debt could certainly use. Sardonically speaking, the foreign aid frees up the Israeli tax money to provide, GUESS WHAT? UNIVESRAL HEALTH CARE! (No doubt just for Israeli Jews)
Usually American foreign is provided to nations as loans. Quite often Israels foreign aid loans are converted to grants and those are no longer loans to be repaid. And, believe or not congressional legislation sponsored by Joe Biden and Allen Cranston in the 1980s passed that provides that Israel be provided with sufficient foreign aid to meet it debt obligations to the Unite States!
As Casey Stengel used to say,
"Ya cud look it up."
I suggest that the resolution to 90% of all the problems in the Middle East could put on a road to solution by the following.
1. United States demand that Israel has 30 days to pack up and permanently leave every settlement and every square inch of property that exceeds the French mandate borders of 1947.
2.Israel immediately release every political prisoner in custody.
3.Israel admit to war criminality, including but not limited to ethnic cleaning, genocide, attack on the U.S. Liberty (with compensation to survivors, next of kin or their estates).
4.Israel become a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and be subject to inspections.
5.Unless Israel unconditionally agrees upon these non-negotiable terms not one penny of foreign will be provided to Israel including that which is currently in the pipe line and such aid will be reallocated to Palestinians including the weaponry.
6.Israel shall see to it that nothing is destroyed,dismantled or made inoperable upon leaving the land illegally taken by treachery and terror beyond the boundaries of the French Mandate.
7.Israel shall be subject to dezionification just as Germany had to undergo denazification
8.Israel agrees to help rebuild the Palestinian villages and infrastructure it destroyed
9. Israel identifies every Mossad agent and recalls same. Any Mossad agent subsequently discovered in the United States shall be subject to not less than 25 nor more than 50 years in a Maximum Security facility. should be determined that such agent has in fact delivered to Israel secret documents the penalty shall be death.
10..The United State will offer this pot sweetener and propose a treaty with Iran that states United States will use every resource necessary to prevent any action Israel attempts to take against the nation of Iran and in return Iran forego any attempt to develop nuclear weaponry. Additionally,any attack by Israel against Iran will be viewed as an attack upon the United States and dealt with the same "shock and awe" as delivered on Baghdad and Fulugia.
You can bet your tuchus that the thought of no longer being the Chosen People of the United States and the threat of losing that largess will weigh much heavier on these judenfascists than the absurd myth of being the "chosen" of some guy in the sky.
___
The Skeptical Cynic doth spake!
Santa knows when you are sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good.
Unfortunately, so does Bush,
Cheney, Rice, Mukasey, and...
the FBI, ONI, ASA, MCIA, CIA,
NSA, DIA, MI6, MOSSAD, AIPAC,
and... a number of TELECOMS and
ISPs...
(This signature is an ongoing
project.)
Xyp you are quite right.
Did six million Jews die was a book published in the '60s.
Read as it tells the truth.
Ask the Red Cross, the Russian government.
It is the American government that is holding out information that will not be released. Why not?
Collusion with Israel.
Xzp?
israel will be stoped cold and it will come as a thief in the night.
there is no such thing as a jewdao cristion nation since jews are anti American as well as anti human.
For Anonymous, blizzard, and in particular pas de fie dans matete who responded to my comment:
I don't uaually respond to additional comments, but in this case I must.
Thank you anonymous for making me realize that indeed I have been late in realizing what dastardly deeds were being done in the name of my friends the Jewish people.
Thank you blizzard for affirming my obversation.
And to pas de fie dans matete, what a great pleasure to know that there is someone out there that knows plays like Tartuffe and Pantaglaise. I have had the wisdom and pleasure to have produced and directed both of them. You don't by chance know me do you?
I see no differenece between an estimated 80 million followers of the Christian Zionist Movement thoughts towards US citizens who would treat all non belivers in the same way as the Israelis treat any of worlds citizens not aligned with their thoughts and actions.
That they, Christian Zionist, have been laying low lately is scary becaused it shows a major concerted effort to not rock the boat until after elections.
Even bush has cut back on his attempt to use code words in his speeches to assure that group he is still talking to their GOD in the White House.
While I have docummented multiple case upon US college campus's where any attempt to study the Arab Israeli problem has been allowed just as long as it is from Israeli viewpoint only.
It has gone so far as the group headed by Lynne Cheny allows no books in any curriculum at all or librarys to purchase or havce on hand books or critical thinkers who may not faovr Israeli interest from speaking on campus, cuting funding of ME study and professorships, and buying books by either Christian Zionist or far right authors many who work for US government or defense departments and think tanks making them millionaires with taxpayers funding.
I fear the influence of the Dominionist as much as I fear the Israelis abuse of this country, for they are as strongly entrencehd in every form of governance, including the military, as is the Israeli or Jewish influences.
The domestic terrorist of the Christian Zionist Dominionist Movement believe in only one sin, taking the Lords Namee in vain therby denouncing his authority, and believe any lie or crfime againstr rest of mankind is allowable if it is in the work of bring their Christ figure back.
If anti semitism got to the pure outrage stge in US it would make no difference to them, Christian Zealots, if they could convince americans to go into an all out nuke war with Israel, it is still their Armaggedon time and they know that they would either convert the Jew or he would go to hell at their hands.
Whatever arguments one uses against Israels influence, and their partners the AIPAC supporters it must not get into the fields of religon but National Sovereignty only.
That is a tightrope I do not believe we people in US can walk out on for we are already in the grips of a cabal of leaders who have instituted National Socialism and one of their criterias is unswerving devotion to a flag no matter what or how it is harmfull to its own citizens or the denizens of other countries in world.
US ism is a form of religion, wqith all its sacred vows and temple banners and its priesthood is one of the bloddiest priesthoods the world has ever seen.
It would be better to be a citizen of nowhere or hell before becoming one of those slaves under those forms, far right religious, National Sopcialism or reverance above god of country.
Most us peoples would just go on about their daily buisness and do as they are told, but then why not, they have been doing it now for he last hunded years.
http://www.bollyn.info/home/arti...-behind-9%1111/
The Architecture of Terror: Mapping the Israeli Network Behind 9-11
Written by Christopher Bollyn
Thursday, 24 July 2008
This chapter of Solving 9-11 reveals a very significant part of the extensive Israeli and Zionist criminal network, which the evidence indicates was behind the crime of the century.
Judaism is the most closely organized power on earth. It forms a Statewhose citizens are unconditionally loyal wherever they may be and whetherrich or poor.
The name which is given to this State, which circulates among all thestates, is "All-Judaan."
The means of power of the State of All-Judaan are capital and journalism,or money and propaganda.
All-Judaan is the only State that exercises world government; all theother States can and may exercise national government only.
The principal culture of All-Judaan is journalistic; the technical, scientific,literary performances of the modern Jew are throughout journalistic performances.They are due to the marvelous talent of the Jews for receptivity of others'ideas. Capital and Journalism are joined in the Press to create a politicaland spiritual medium of Jewish power.
The government of this State of All-Judaan is wonderfully organized.Paris was the first seat, but has now been moved to a lower place. Before1914 London was its first, and New York its second capital. New York nowsupplants London.
All-Judaan is not in a position to have a standing army and navy, otherstates supply these for it. It was the British Fleet which guarded fromhindrance the progress of all-Jewish world economy, or that part of it whichdepends on the sea. In return, All-Judaan assured Britain an undisturbedpolitical and territorial rule.
Then New York supplanted London. The drift of the Jews in the 19th century,expedited into a great flood after World War I, made the United States theseat of Jewish power and influence." America," and her fleets,armies, citizens, takes the place of Britain as the "ruler of the world."It merely means that Jewry has moved from the British Empire to the AmericanContinent.
All-Judaan is willing to entrust the government of various strips ofthe world to nationalistic governments; it only asks to control the governments.Judaism is passionately in favor of perpetuating nationalistic divisionsfor the Gentile world. For themselves, Jews never became assimilated withany nation. They are a separate people, always were and always will be.
All-Judaan's only quarrel with any nation occurs when that nation makesit impossible, or tries to make it so, for All-Judaan to control that nation'sindustrial and financial profits. It can make war, it can make peace; itcan command anarchy in stubborn cases, it can restore order. It holds thesinews of world power in its hand and it apportions them among the nationsin such ways as will best support All-Judaan's plan.
Controlling the world's source of news, All-Judaan can always preparethe minds of the people for its next move. The greatest exposure yet tobe made is the way that news is manufactured and the way in which the mindof whole nations is molded for a purpose.
When the powerful Jew is at last traced and his hand revealed, then comesthe ready cry of persecution and it echoes through the world press. Thereal cause of the persecution (which is the oppression of the people bythe financial practices of the Jews) is never given publicity.
All-Judaan has its vice-governments in every capital. Having wreakedits vengeance on Germany, it will go forth to conquer other nations. Britainit already has. France and Russia it has long held. The United States, withits good-natured tolerance of all races, offered a promising field. All-Judaanis here. The scene of operations changes, but the Jew is the same throughoutthe centuries.
Lowry | 07.25.08 - 12:45 pm | #
My christian thinking on this matter was influenced chiefly by a proper reading of the LaW of God - thus th state of Israel is flagrantly disobeying said Law, they will not have God's blessibg in this precisely because of this disobedience, and those churches that think love of Israel means unconditional endorsement of its crimes are of the devil rather than of God.
It is a brutal irony that they claimed to unconditionally love me but tore strips off me for my love of pleasures as innocuous as dungeons and dragons, classical music and russian literature.
their stance on Israel is pure idolatry.
but as there is no arrogance like religious arogance the pen will not shift it, and the sword will only harden it
" Americans are a gullible and naive people." ???? Really???
A people that murdered others (the indians) into their existence, then enslaved and murdered million of others into their expansion to be the only Super Empire in the world today is GULLIBLE and NAIVE???? The Indians, the Mexicans, The Koreans, the Vietnamese (My Lai, Cam Ne Thanh Phong,Agent Orange etc) and NOW over million of Iraqis and Afgans have been murdered jsut becuase of mere gullible and naive people???
I am stuned! No more word Mr Roberts.
Roberts is damn right. But many Palestinians later they still have it coming. No human being ever understood why those, who claim to be victims of a holocaust, could go on holocausting the Palestinians for so many decades.
That's why the Israeli Mossad poisoned Arafat too: The Palestinian gov't states that the poisoning of Arafat by Israel "is proof that Israel is not looking for peace, rather they look to subject Palestinians, make wars and spread destruction". After 10 years as a journalist/correspondent in the area, I fully agree with the Palestinians.
As an independent foreign correspondent I lived in Tunis for ten years (1987>1997) of course also 'covering' the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO), the people and it's leadership. And like some Tunisians, and a US agent who went to the special CIA spy school in the picturesque village of Sidi Bou Said, close to Tunis where I lived, also quite some Palestinians became my friends. Arafat's secretary during those years lived opposite me in the street, 20 meters away. But I've never been to so many funerals in Tunis and suburbs in such a short time: special Mossad squads during those years 'softened up' the Palestinians by killing the main part of the PLO leadership. So, based on my research and long experience of the people and area, it is also my conviction that PLO leader Abu Ammar (Arafat) was poisoned by the Israelis and their Mossad.
My point of view, that also Palestinians are human beings, people like us, and should NOT be exterminated, isn't in vogue yet in The Netherlands either, where Amsterdam (Mayor Job Cohen) often is called the 'Jerusalem of Europe'. And in a big part of the 27 countries in the enforced European Union, like Germany for instance, they still pay Israel for the 'holocaust'. The US/Israeli cabal's brainwashing via their propaganda media is global, but better information is spreading, and real journalism instead of propaganda is becoming more alive and kicking, thanks to Internet.
Concerning the current Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, it should be known that none of all the Palestinians I knew and know, ever trusted a Palestinian who was trusted by the Americans and Israelis. Nobody. And especially not after Abu Mazen (Abbas) delivered new furniture to the offices of the headquarters in Tunis of the Palestine Liberation Organisation.
When in the days thereafter, at night also listening to the English 'news' from Radio Kol Israel at seven o'clock, I heard via Tel Aviv what secretly was discussed two hours ago by the PLO leadership in Tunis, and I understood that the PLO was bugged (again) from top to bottom. With 'moles' as big as the Mount Everest. Everything was given an 'electronic sweep' to find the bugs, and among others it showed that the new lamp on Abu Mazen's desk had a live satellite connection.
As the late co-founder and 'grand old man' of the PLO, the very amiable Khaled el Hassan (Abu Said) told me, it transmitted directly to Tel Aviv's Mossad and their 'Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks'. [ha-Mossad le-Modiin ule-Tafkidim Meyuhadim]. For the sound the mini-microphones were in the 'earflaps' of the desk chairs, and the 'satellite' lamp, transmitting documents, didn't even need to be switched on..." - [end excerpt] - The rest, including interesting and related footnotes, you can find here at TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/349n48
And can we please, please, stop this cliché-crap about anti-semitism? One-and-a-half Billion (with a 'B'!) Arabs are Semites, and that includes the holocausted Lebanese and the Palestinians. Here's a definition of 'Semites' from the Collins English Dictionary - [http://tinyurl.com/zj9y4] - "Semitic: a member of the group of Caucasoid people who speak a Semitic language, including the Jews and Arabs as well as the Ancient Babylonians (Iraqis), the Assyrians (Syria), and the Phoenicians (the Lebanese of today). The JDL cliché: "anti semitism' has always been a fake accusation, abused to kill debates too in the past. Not anymore.
What the US/Israeli war machine is doing: that's real and inhuman anti-semitism on a global scale.
Suzan | Homepage | 07.25.08 - 8:36 pm
Concur with you and most. The so called Angel has been exposed previously and now.
His attacks on free speech resemble that of the subtle zionist jewish nazi chant of smearing anyone who dont toe to his lines. Oh ! by the way, Atheo has at least contribute far more than you can ever dream off, other than your rants and personal attacks on him. Instead of you refining your child like criticisms, and your worn out 'cut and paste articles' you have no other proof of his intentions. Well to me after reading him carefully, he does higlights the REAL CRIMINALS who illegally govern the hoodwinked world.
And if you attack him for it, surely, any sane deduction can be made that you are clearly on the side of the zionist nazis.
Anyway, your rampage indicates over and over again, which is almost similar in pattern to the murderous zionist deception ideologies, but with a slight twist in admitting that only a few zionists jews are involved. Where WE all conclude that this is a zionist empire building exercise, playing us like pawns.
Angel you have to accept the fact that I proved you wrong on 2 wrongly held assumptions you made. Come to terms with it and accept it. And then examine your illogical thinking paranoid patterns from the delusions which is entrenched in your psyche as to how you conclude. Therefore, your conclusions based on Atheo and the rest of whom you attack MUST BE wrong in itself.
Judging by the way how you rightly condemn nazis, how come you dont see that the true nazis are hidden in zionist clothing ? Can you not see the alignment of talmudic and nazi ideology. Translate Aryanism into talmudic precepts and there you have it by the very actions that is taking place on this globe today. This is exactly what is done in the name of Judaism.
I can see why atheo, doesnt reply to you for you cannot offer one single bit of concrete evidence from your accusations, and this infighting will go on ad infinitum.
Since you got me wrong on many counts, and if you persist with this irrational behaviour, your credibility will sink to an all time low. You come in charging like a lunatic to defend your wounded EGO, other than accepting that you have been wrong and getting on with it. Either you are with US or against us. Make your intentions clear and simple. Other than that you will make an ass of yourself and others will see you as a disrupter and a shill.
The undeniable fact is that Hitler and his associates were of Jewish descent and deceived others by his vitriolic speeches (lovely propaganda by Goebells another right wing jewish cockroach)against jews gypsies, communists, the handicapped, and anyone who didnt see his way of thinking, closely resembling you Angel. Now dont get upset, this is what is emanating from your discussion. I am offering a different outlook, where you are on the BLAME GAME syndrome who dont think like YOU.
Another fact one must remember, that Germany was down on its knees financially speaking, and that his kith and kin; the Rothchilds came to his rescue with a financial package, which was also offered to the Bolsheviks on the other side. This is well known in Jewish circles, where some jews who were close friends related this FACT.
Quote
"not all zionists are jews, just as all jews are not zionists. my jewish family comes from italy with a tradition of speaking out against zionism and occupation."
succinct | 07.25.08 - 5:26 pm
You are very right indeed, and I commend you and many others for coming out in the open, sir. On the other hand, I wish many more would be genuinely inspired AND fired up passionately to join the multitude, that in itself would eradicate anti-semitism to prove your statement, and aim the blame, to the true culprits the criminal zionist syndicate. You must acknowledge that sitting on the fence, as for the many others who are reading this, is really not an option nor choice. Action has to be swift, for WE all have to be in UNISON or if divided, we will FALL.
To
xzp | 07.25.08 - 5:31 pm
I do concur with your links, which strangely isnt aired or published by the mafiaso ZIONIST controlled Media. And any school boy with an intel of even a donkey could work this out. But as usual the sheeple keep sucking in the news as if it were the best thing since sliced bread. The Key to this, is that when it does hit the headlines, it will be the demise of them and those traitorous pretenders (Like Chompsky et al) who shielded them all along; right wing jews and deluded christians, and their whores.
They belong right in the justice dock to be judged for the world to see how they manipulated and legalised atrocities, which came straight from the idiots guide to TALMUDISM.
But xzp, like we had this dialogue before, there are those innocent jews that are slowly emerging from the closet, to join the ranks to bring an iota of semblance to justice, peace and order. Anyone who hasnt read these links provided by xzp and who state adamantly that they belong to the right wing hate group, is only 0.001% right, others are ironically, Kosher.
Most of the links have been authenticated by writers who were of jewish origin themselves. Take Benjamin Freedman and sadly, only a few authors who are emerging, as examples(do a google search) who exposed the workings of a deranged mentality that exists in zionism which is embedded like a cancer deep within judaism.
They and their whores have been EXPOSED like Angel either misguided or a fanatical cunning shill. And by my last dialogue with the Angel of death, Gabrielowitch, HE has holes in his loopy blame-game-smearing-logic or is the perfect trojan horse. So the challenge is issued to you Angel, tell us clearly without innuendos or your mariuana-induced-cryptic brain pattern thinking, where you stand on this issue, or forever shut your vitriolic fart-like thought products, for good.
@Atheo is OK!
And you, you certainly are no archangel, Gabriel. On the contrary, as you show again for the umpteenth time. - 07.25.08 - 7:00 pm
What are you, JDL or something similar?
They'll all rot in hell.
To all of the above, read:
THE TRANSFER AGREEMENT
by
Edwin Black
You will then know the actual relationship between the The Third Reich and Zionists. Then come back and tell me about Zionism. Welcome to hell.
Yawn, Do I hear the whining of the hate and distraction crowd, or did someone pass some vile gas?
Suzan, please put a sock in it.
Henk please stick to selling ads for Tinyurl - try Walmart, they might buy a full page just to get rid of you.
Richard, where on earth you come up with your insane rambles is beyond comprehension. The only thing you've proved is that you are a total nut case!
Atheo, as usual, is silent. Mainly because he knows what I ride him about - and Richard it's not a case of free speech it's his clear agenda driven distractions away from the topic of conversation. You apparently need some direction in comprehending multiple syllable words!
There WAS some potential for intelligent thought and discussion on this thread before the Jew Baiter's arrived - oh well, onward through the fog!
Please allow me tyo give you (above) a collective FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE'S YOU RODE IN ON! Bye now - see you next time!
Flutter flutter
Henk Ruyssenaars writes:
Henk Ruyssenaars writes:
"And can we please, please, stop this cliché-crap about anti-Semitism? One-and-a-half Billion (with a 'B'!) Arabs are Semites, and that includes the holocausted Lebanese and the Palestinians. Here's a definition of 'Semites' from the Collins English Dictionary - [http://tinyurl.com/zj9y4] - "Semitic: a member of the group of Caucasoid people who speak a Semitic language, including the Jews and Arabs as well as the Ancient Babylonians (Iraqis), the Assyrians (Syria), and the Phoenicians (the Lebanese of today). The JDL cliché: "anti semitism' has always been a fake accusation, abused to kill debates too in the past. Not anymore."
While you are quite right about the dictionary definition of Semite, the addition of "anti" as a prefix to this word does not follow what we would normally expect. This is for a very specific historical reason. In Europe of the 1800s, certain people who hated Jews (and with no thoughts for the Semitic tribes that originated in the Arabian peninsular over 5000 years ago) decided to call themselves anti-Semites. They took great pride in labelling themselves as such and promoted the hatred and scapegoating of Jews which eventually led to the pogroms of Russia, the Dreyfus Affair and finally the Holocaust.
So traditionally ":anti-Semitism has a very specific meaning that has nothing to do with the rest of the Semitic speaking people descendants in their various cultures and countries. The word has a strong tradition of meaning anti-Jew and anti-Semite, not Jews, originally coined the term. Given recent developments, perhaps it is time to change the term "anti-Semitic" to "Judeophobic".
Now the real issue here is to end the persecution of the Palestinian People, restore to them what is justly theirs and find a solution that provides Justice and Peace for all people living in the Middle East and part of that involves countering the Islamophobia that has become a problem throughout the Europe, North America and Australia. Many of the comments here are like a gleeful jumping around on the Judeophobic soap-box rather than a genuine concern with the suffering of the Palestinian People.
Holocaust denial is usually associated with hatred towards Jews and is the sort of thing that is bound to cement fear in the hearts of Israeli Jews. It is counter-productive and is not going to end the injustices and lead to peace.
Israel and the pro-Israeli lobby in North America is an enormous problem for every human being on Earth. The solution can only lie in a universally accepted set of human rights principles that apply to every single human being on earth. The religious perspectives above that pit religions against each other is simply a continuation of the age-old stupidity that has plagued humanity for the entirety of the historical period. It is the infantile "them and us" mentality that assumes your moral superiority over everyone else's inferiority in order to make it OK to commit atrocities without feeling guilt.
It begins with self righteousness. Then slowly the sanctimonious claptrap shifts into calls for remedies that eventually involve cruelty and bloodshed in the name of the "good." Injustice is met with revenge, which must be revenged and so the spiral descends until everyone surrenders their humanity to mindless vengeance.
Israel has tried for 60 years to bludgeon the Palestinians into submission, but they will never succeed for you cannot force a people to accept humiliation. You cannot achieve any co-operation if you try to rob people of a sense of their own human dignity. There can be no peace in Israel/Palestine until the human dignity of Palestinians is no longer threatened.
By the same token, you are not going to get Israeli Jews to submit to international law with the mindless Judeophobic claptrap in some of those remarks above. Whether you call Jews or Palestinians sub-human, inherently evil, or inferior in any way, you are guaranteeing a continuation of injustices. There is no guarantee that an appeal to universally accepted and universally applied human rights will solve the violence and cruelty in our world, but it is the only path with any hope of succeeding. This is not to say that those responsible for atrocities should be allowed to escape the consequences of their crimes. On the contrary they must all be tried in fair and transparent courts, but it is individual human beings who commit crimes and need to be put on trial, not races, not religions, and not countries.
Condemning religions, countries and ethnicities, as is being done by some here, is not helpful. My appeal to those who are doing this is to examine your hearts carefully and consider what you gain if what you say is hurtful and even hateful.
"Sounds like Abu Gharib. There are news reports that Israeli torture experts participated in the torture of the detainees assembled by the American military "
only american and israelis torture
the arabs do not
the chinese do not
the russians do not
the vietmanese do not
point the finger
paul craig roberts
if you must
at yourself
There is a difference between the Holocaust and what has been happening with the Palestinian situation, and that is that the Holocaust came to an end. What the Palestinians have been going through started 60 years ago and continues unabated today, with Israeli influence on the US government.
Jeff | 07.25.08 - 2:02 pm | #
NO JEFF THE HLOLCAUST HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR CENTURIES
AND IS STILL HAPPENING
JEWS ARE ATTACKED DAILY WORLDWIDE
WHETHER IT BE IN EUROPE
OR ISRAEL
Zionist brutal sociopath activities have brought the Jews into disrepute now their alsoo dragging Christians and other niaeve supporters along with them. Infecting all the apples at the bottom of the barrel.
Read Albert Einstein's warnings on supporting Zionism and the imposition of Israel onto Palestine. At; http://www.newdemocracyworld.org...rg/
Einstein.htm
.
Must see. 'Palestine is still the issue' by John Pilger, a real eye opener st; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r...h?
v=rzrr2xSaSFQ
Exposing the Holocaust Hoax and Industry at; http://video.google.com/videopla...012148738&
hl=en
.
the oppressed has become the oppressor... and will not let up!
i have to agree with the whole holocaust thing... whether it indeed happened... or if it were the jews who had a hand in it. anything for sympathy or forever playing the victim. tsk tsk.
even the zionist believe in a judgement day. if they are truly God's 'chosen people', why not behave like the 'chosen people' instead of building your homes in hell by your monsterous, heinous deeds in this life which is so temporary. a piece of land that your precious Golda Meir claimed had non-existant palestinians on it is not worth your time in hell.
israel, you have time to turn around your pittiful soul and save yourselves from the torments of your maker. this is not what 'chosen people' do. this is what hells 'chosen people' do.
i frankly don't care what happens to the israeli souls... the deeper in hell they go, the better.
and what is really amazing here is the US candidates are building the largest golden calf to present to the israelis all in the name of the americans. it is who the leader of your country represents, right? you all? think carefully about that one.
PULITZER PRIZE FOR A HOLOCAUST DENIER?
Url.: http://www.cemab.be/print.php?id=1360
And where is Solzjenitsyn, called 'the conscience of the world'?
Nobel Literature Prize Laureate and 'Gulag Holocaust' survivor Alexander Solzjenitsyn investigated the origin of the 'Russian Revolution' and the concentration camps: he published and was damned - TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/qth6z
All those signs on all walls, and many say still it's only wallpaper...?
@Lawrence Boxall - 07.26.08 - 12:57 am
Sorry, Lawrence, I stick to what they do, not what they via the zionists via their propaganda sewers keep saying.
Anybody is called an 'anti semite' if one has criticism of the crminal practices by those zionists, of which most only claim to be 'jewish'.
And the term 'anti semite' nowadays is used by the malevolent zionists for those they hate.
All Arabs, one-and-a-half Billion, including the by Israel regularly 'holocausted' Lebanese people and the Palestinians, are real Semites.
And, as said before:
The worn out and false cliché: "anti semitism' has always been a fake accusation by the Khazars and assorted zionists, used to kill debates too in the past. Not anymore.
What the US/NATO and Israeli war machine is doing: that's real and inhuman anti-semitism on a global scale.
Already for a very long time...
AS for the question how could the religious leaders of Judaism endorse the crimes of the Israeli state, the answer is (if the most orthodox leaders are the most relgious) that they do NOT. the ultra orthodox Hassidim reject the state as being a product of the scheming and efforts of man (what the Bible calls "the flesh").
Go to the website of naturei Karta and see it for yourselves. they will hold a day of mourning on the 60th anniversary of the foundation of the State of Israel; they have denounced zionism since its inception over a century ago.
go to naturei karta's website and see it for yourselves
"NO JEFF THE HLOLCAUST HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR CENTURIES
AND IS STILL HAPPENING
JEWS ARE ATTACKED DAILY WORLDWIDE
WHETHER IT BE IN EUROPE
OR ISRAEL
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 1:30 am |"
Because?
Like, they're REALLY GUILTY, or what?
* * *
Good article by PCR. Likely will not be read by those who need it most -- Republican Zio-Christians with more money than brains, the very same souls who've bankrupted America to serve Israel --
The very same souls the Iranians right now are probably chuckling about.
Two minutes after the US attacks Iran, a gong will strike, the Big Board on Wall Street will go to all zeros, and worthless dollars won't buy no overseas valuta, will they?
(Memo: If a busted-down retired old steelworker like me knows that America no longer makes enough steel for domestic use much less for a long war after our credit is cut off... does anyone really think Iran's intelligence service DON'T know it? It's OVER and America's enemies are snickering already. The belly laughs start when our fleet in Asian waters get stranded on the high seas for lack of fuel and supplies. Thanks a lot, Bush.)
and as for this tired old canard that the jews are Khazars and not real descendants of Abraham, this is another piece pf racist bigotry.
Yes it is true that the Khazars , a tribe in what is now the Russian steppes, converted to Judaism. But it was a superficial conversion, being only of their aristocracy, and it did not last very long. the common people of the khazars did not convert to judaism and the aristocracy did not stay jews for long
the crimes of Israel do not justify the racist rantings of rabid jew haters.
these contemptible individuals who seek any excuse to hate defile this website
Strefanash and the fool "Angel gabriel."
(By the way "Angel Gabriel" there was NO "Exodus" NO Moses, no Solomon and no temple! Neither was there any Persian king called Ahaseurus - and the whole of the story of "Esther" is fiction.
So muhc for your "passover" and you "purim" Those are stories invented by the Levites to control and enslave you - and they have had you in thrall ever since, so foolish and so ignorant are you.
I have recommended many times, on this site the book by Israel Finkelstein
called "The Bible Unearthed."
Then go and read - if you have an honest bone in your body, which seems unlikely, given what you have had to say here "Jewish History, Jewish Religion." by the great Israel Shahak.
I most decidedly do hate Injustice and I hate criminals and fools who oppress others and I especially dislike - no, HATE - those who are slimy, slippery and slithery, those low types who have no idea of what it means to be civilised
AND I despise those who spend all so much of their time whining about how they have suffered.
People like you leave no room for compassion, you are so self pitying and so slimyly and creepily going on and on and on and on about how you were "persecuted
I for one no longer care whether you were actually persecuted or not! In fact, I feel for anyone who has ever had to have anything to do with you - and if I were you I would try to learn how to Human, decent, kind and civilised before it is too late. If you die as you are you will have a horrible time - and that is a promise.
The crimes of Isrhell most certainluy do justify the anger of Humanity and they WILL be punished one day.
And by the way - the "Wailing Wall"(sic) was built by Muslims.
And the so called "Tower of King DAvid" was built by Suleiman the Magnifcent in the 16th Century!!!
For such as you to attack anyone like Atheo is just amusing. You have no integrity.
And to everyone else and to those who have not read "The Controversy of Zion" I advise you to do so asap.
Also "The Babylonian Woe." by David AStle - and that will tell you all about how the fiat money system has been used to not only force us into debt and slavery to the phantom money system but has also been used to cause and create war, endlessly - since some people called "Apiru" or "Habiru" whihc became "Hebrew" learned how to create phantom money - all that time ago.
xzp
There is an amazing article by Chris Bollyn today on
www.thetruthseeker.co.uk
Everyone should read that son. He is the best investigative reporter about 9/11 - by far.
Xzp , Richard and atheo
not to forget our guru , Henk Ruyssenaars
To me for a Start are the Best , most informed ,
They are our Light house on ICH
ps. Most important of all, the "federal" "Reserve" bank has to be closed down.
It is a terrible fraud and it is making slaves of Human Beings - for the future, all of the future, all the children who will be born into the future will be spenc their entire lives paying to this criminal "bank" whihc creates money out of thin air.
I cannot keep writing this so plese go to find the video of G.Edward Griffin's "The Creature from Jekull Island." or "The Mney Masters."
And note once more that the Money Masters are almost exclusively Jewish.
It is very tiresome indeed to see people keeping on about nonsense such as "anti-semitism" .
For waht it is worth, I am not anti-semitic, I AM anti Judaism.
It is an absurd ideology whihc brain washes some people into believing that they are different and superior and "chosen"! It is so PATENTLY absurd that it seems crazy to have to even mentiion again - what kind of a fool actually believes tha "God" "chose" him or her???? WHAT KIND OF A GOD is that ???
WAKE UP! There is no such God other than one out of the imagination of the very people who are conditioned to believe in this crass nonsense.
And, in Heaven's name, who would want anything to do with such a god? What kind of a fool would invoke a god who does little else but breath fire and vengence and carry on like a demented raving fool who gets so overwrought with his own hatred and bile that he froths at the mouth screaming for "destrction" and for the brains of babies to be beaten out on rocks?
Anyone who does not notice that that is a little strange and mad - well, God help you! You are beyond help.
When we use a credit card or take out a loan from the bank THEY DO NOT GIVE US ANYTHING except a debt, a "credit line."
We use that "money" and then we have to pay it back - in actual money we have earned with the sweat of our brows PLUS interest!
The banks work the same way exactly with the Government. The Government send a n iou in the form of a "Treasury Note or bond for such an such an amount. The bank (the Fed) sends an instruction through to the |Mint (owned by the government - OF the People) and that Mint prints ink onto paper. That printed paper is called "dollars" even though the law says that only a definite amount of silver or gold stamped with the right picture and the right date and the right amount can be called "dollars"
Anyway, the printed paper pieces are sent to the government department which "borrowed" them from the Fed - but again - it was nothing but a "line of credit" and it cost the Fed NOTHING. It is phantom money created out of thin air.
The people, Human Beings, will be paying all that phantom money back with the sweat of their brows for the duration - for ever - because the American Government has now "borrowed" so much and it is making compound interest, that it will not be possible to pay it back EVER - just keep paying taxes, more and more taxes until you have not more energy or interest in life at all.
But it cost them NOTHING It is fraud, nothing but fraud, a gigantic scam, a scam of epic proportions, epic dimensions.
Henk - I wish you would talk more and more about this. it is the ONLY hope for the World - expose it all and stop it all, for the sake of all Humanity,for the sake of the future of the World.
If there is still a future possible.
Israeli leaders are worse than Hitler and the Nazis.
What they did to the Palestinian people is horrendous.
The Holocaust may have ended in 1945 but what is happening to the Palestinian people is ONGOING.
There will be justice.
Israeli leaders are provocateurs and war criminals.
"Angel Gabriel I do not know who you are talking about BUT I do know you are not a very bright light bulb."
- another old US vet.
Agreed.
A Jewish philosopher friend once told me that "chosen people" is a mis-translation.
It should read "choosing people" referring to the act of the ancient Hebrews to choose one god among many. [If there were many . . .]
The schmucks chose the war god, Yahwah.
What I don't understand is how the US government was co-opted by these clowns.
Please, if you know anything, send me links to sites or references to books.
I proudly proclaim that I am an American who reads, hates football, SUVs, country music, the cult of celebrity and fundamentalism where ever it exists.
I am, in short, a very lonely guy in my nation of birth
SUSAN
Gabriel works in a kosher butcher shop taking meat in the rear.
The violence well go on and killing well only stop at the end of days. Now for all that want to read this what is a Christian and what does it mean to you. For Jesus taught us the way and the HOLY SPRIT agrees that they tourchored HIM and they well tourchore you. IF they Hate you they are Hating HIM. It is beyond believe that if you are a TRUE Christian how can you shoot, kill, stab, and put in prision your own brother. For God created everyone of us no matter what shape form color we are we are alllll created by God. So if you shoot kill and like to torucher then you are none of HIS. So how can we as Americans say that we are Christians and our own streets are full of blood we kill our babies by the thousands, WE LIE CHEAT STILL all in the name of Christanty. For the day well come and very soon that we well all get to meet our MAKER there well be no one there but YOU and JESUS then what well you say that we Killed in the Name Jesus. And dont even get me started on the SO CALLED BIG CHURCHES or even little churches that well agree with all the murdering that is going on today. For how can you say that you are a Christian and you have NOT read your BIBLE. If you really want to know what well HAPPEN in the near future just read the book of AMOS there are many others but this one Book tells Ameicans who we are and what God is going to do to us.So if you are a true CHRISTIAN then you should lood like Jesus walk like Jesus and talk like Jesus if you dont then you are none of HIS. May God Forgive our many many many SINS. IN JESUS NAME AMEN.
@Hal
Who's your rabbi?
Just suppose, for once, America told Israel to go to Hell -- The country would last a couple of weeks... maybe.
Perhaps it's time to convince the Israeli's "Hey, we'll be your buddies, but you have to stop acting like Nazis."
BiBi would just love that.
"Atheo, as usual, is silent. Mainly because he knows what I ride him about - and Richard it's not a case of free speech it's his clear agenda driven distractions away from the topic of conversation"
That means lowering himself to your level....and it is all of the tit for tat bullshit that distracts which sounds more like Angel than atheo.
pippi,
Your grimly accurate assessment of the situation is appreciated.
Tom posten,
Write a book, or a pamphlet. The word needs to get out beyond the confines of ICH.
Isabella,
Your posts always have signifigant things to say.
The central bank power is too woven into the system now for the public to just decide to get rid of it.
The Jew God has always been the implied God of Christianity. The old testement included with the new testement in the bible implies the acceptance of the Jewish values. Psychologically the Christians are 'set up' for the Jewish domination.
chinese sneakers,
The 'integrety' of the currency guarded by the secret service is non existant.Fort Knox probably now contains IOU's (in place of gold bars), just as social security and pension funds. Don't presume that any of the protective government agencies ( FBI, etc.)have any integrety either. They work specifically for the elite.
What a service the JDL has provided in calling such attention to my posts!
And what an embarrassment of an embassador they have in the persona of Angel Gabrielsteinowitzberg.
Hal O'Leary:
No, I didn't know you. I've only ever been in WV for >20 minutes. I am pretty much a Manhattanite, saw Pantaglaize at the Pheonix Theatre when I was 14, j'etais un avocat en grève depuis l'invasion illégale de l'Afghanistan: 7 Octobre 2001.
But--importantly--I do recommend Ranciere's perceptive critique. As most of the above digressors indicate, folks are--by design now--unhinged: thrashing, incoherent/inviolable egos; mired in no longer readable symbols and codes. Beckett's no longer just a poster-boy for a locquaciously failed analysis, he is the role model for reflective life in the new world order: Oh, that is really grim.
Neo-liberals (or Cons) do not fare in our Lacanian universe where humans can still evolve.
You are sage believing the human gift is doing what you love and that is now pre-empted on a global scale: zionism and totalitarian political correctness are only very effective viral distractions. But that is all they are.
The struggle continues comrade!
JEWS ARE ATTACKED DAILY WORLDWIDE
WHETHER IT BE IN EUROPE
OR ISRAEL
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 1:30 am | #
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
...and why do you suppose jews are hated?
Chubbyvortexresister | Homepage | 07.25.08 - 4:25 pm, another jewnazi psychopath...
How many Rev Are are in the western world? Probably many but none want to read to get informed by the proper channels of the atrocities Iarael is committing on a daily; bases to do what they always want: all the palestine, and south or may be all of Lebano too.Their plan are until the Eufratis and Tigris.
It is a sad time for the people who know the true and for the Palestinians who daily are deprived of any human right.
Angel Gabriel | 07.25.08 - 7:00 pm, the smelly jewnazi psychopath is back here again...
One gets treated as well as he/she treats others and acts. I live with a Palestinian in Calif. and have another good Palestinian friend. Refugees looking for a handout in the 1940s were not cared for by other Arabs. Why? The situation was and still is pathetically sad. Why is no one helping the refugees? Look at their behavior and ability to fit into a more modern society before tiny Israel, a nation surrounded by a huge number of hostile enemies, is blamed for simply trying to survive, as you would. Why is the world not steeping in with humanitarian aid and an effort to solve this?
abc | 07.25.08 - 8:06 pm, another squeaker squeaking "Don't touch the Jews!"...
We must learn to treat others the way we wish to be treated.
All human beings deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
Demonizing one group seriously threatens ALL OF US.
Hal O'Leary | 07.25.08 - 2:21 pm |
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
One of your great accomplishments has been to earn the "anti-Semitic" title from a Rabbi for daring to voice your "objection to Zionist activities in Palestine and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians". Wear it with pride!
Angel Gabrielsteinowitzberg fr | 07.26.08 - 12:53 am, the usual wordshitting jewnazi psychopath...
Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 12:57 am, another projewnazi blatherer...
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 1:25 am, another mental castrato ameronazi/jewnazi psychopath...
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 1:30 am, the most perfect lying machine - a mental castrato jewnazi psychopath...
Rifirex point well taken..
Zionist crimes over last sixty years..
April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.
April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.
April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.
May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.
May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.
April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.
Jewish traitors.
The scenario is not new: A Jew in a high place is convicted of espionage for a foreign country and the fact that he is a Jew becomes central to the case. From Dreyfus to the Rosenbergs, the theme of the Jewish spy, more loyal to a foreign power (any foreign power) has been a staple of the anti-Semitic diet.
But now a new wrinkle appears in this hoary paradigm: The allegiance of the Jewish spy is not to any foreign country but to Israel. What could be more satisfying to the xenophobia of the anti-Semites than to discover that the Jew, whose innate disloyalty was always obvious, had finally revealed his true colors by spying for the Jewish state.
How, then, should an American Jew respond to the affair of Jonathan Pollard, convicted of spying for Israel and sentenced to life imprisonment? Is the true issue for Jews the old accusation of double loyalty, as anti-Semites might contend? There is no doubt a widespread unease, a fear, that the Pollard case may be turned against American Jews as a collectivity, as a whetting stone for the knives of those who harbor no love for either Israel or the Jewish people.
Perhaps this is the reason that some American Jews who hitherto considered public criticism of Israel to be nothing less than Jewish heresy have suddenly started voicing their critical views in public. It is ironic that they have suddenly discovered that it is appropriate for them to criticize Israel on moral grounds when it comes to their perception of American Jewish interests. Would that they had displayed such moral sensitivity in questioning the invasion of Lebanon or the continuing occupation of the West Bank or Gaza.
Yet, the proper response should not be fear of anti-Semitic aspersions on Jewish loyalties. Jews understand that their enemies do not need a Jonathan Pollard on whom to base their accusations. Neither does the American Jewish response have anything to do with a "galut mentality" as Shlomo Avineri has gratuitously charged. The identities of American Jews and the politics of Jewish self-assertion are too deeply rooted to be torn up by the behaviour of one member of this Jewish community.
No, the proper response should not be fear, but outrage - outrage in full and equal measure against the government of Israel and the government of the United States. For it was Israel, or agents of the Israeli government, that exploited Pollard's naïve and perhaps boastful Zionism and then abandoned him to his fate after he was caught.
That Pollard would inevitably be caught does not seem surprising from everything known about him. He was exactly the type a good spymaster would know was doomed to give himself away. While Pollard is responsible for his own actions, he could never have committed them without the encouragement, support and, some even say, temptation of his Israeli paymasters. In this sense, Israel betrayed Jonathan Pollard, for it never should have exploited his desire to help Israel by asking him to commit a crime.
Throughout Jewish history, the most fundamental crime a Jew could commit was to betray another Jew to the Gentile kingdom. For such betrayal, Jewish communities would not infrequently seek to put the informer to death. What a irony that the first Jewish state in two thousand years should find itself the betrayer of a Jew in the Diaspora. For this betrayal, the State of Israel owes an apology to the Jewish people, not because it has revived the problem of double loyalty, but because the illegitimate exploitation of an individual Jew is an offense against the Jewish polity as a whole.
But Israel owes more than an apology. If those who recruited Pollard were operating on their own (Israeli versions of Oliver North and John Poindexter), then instead of being promoted, they should stand trial. On the other hand, as seems much more likely, if their operation was approved by members of the Israeli cabinet, then those politicians should take the full responsibility and pay the full political price.
It would, however, be insufficient to level an accusation only at Israel. The behavior of the American government is no less egregious. If, as Pollard insists and as the evidence has yet to contradict, he revealed intelligence only about foreign governments such as Libya and the Soviet Union, why was the case prosecuted so vigorously? Why such a draconian sentence? Why did Caspar Weinberger say that Pollard deserved execution (unless the shades of the Rosenbergs still haunt the Pentagon)? Where is the crime for which this is the punishment? Surely spying for the government of a friend and ally, crime that it is, is not commensurate with spying for an outright enemy.
Moreover, if Senator Durenberger, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee, is correct that the United States planted a spy in the Israeli military in the early 1980s, then all the American outrage at Pollard appears hypocritical in the extreme. Allies spy on allies, but they don't typically make a public scandal of it when they catch each other doing it.
Until and unless we are provided with much more persuasive evidence, we can only assume that another agenda lies behind Pollard's extraordinarily harsh and thoroughly unexpected sentence. That agenda may well have something to do with the Iranian arms scandal, for it would be no surprise if the likes of Caspar Weinberger and Edwin Meese regard Israel as the main culprit in dragging Ronald Reagan's presidency to the brink of disaster. For the real and imagined crimes of Israel, Jonathan Pollard may well have been seen as a likely sacrificial scapegoat, a way of sending a message to Israel and perhaps to the American Jews not to step out of place again.
If this is the message, then instead of cowering in fear of dual loyalty accusations, Jews need to hurl the accusations back on the doorstep from which they came. As misguided and mistaken as Israel's actions in the Iranian-Contra disaster may have been, the Reagan administration bears the full measure of responsibility for its illegal behavior. And Jews will not be silenced by the Pollard affair in their opposition to this regime, which has sown terror abroad and hunger and homelessness at home.
Dave | 07.26.08 - 9:59 am, another smelly mental castrato jewnazi psychopath...
THE LOGIC OF RESISTANCE
It should be apparent that the problem in Palestine is not just simply a problem of checkpoints, human rights abuses, the wall, home demolitions, the architecture of occupation or even the siege of Gaza; the core of the problem is the illegal theft, colonization and occupation of a whole country.
These are only symptoms of the Jewish nationalism expressed in the cancerous ideology called Zionism. It is an ideology that has been organized into the World Zionist Organization with branches in all of the countries of Europe, in the United States and in dozens of other countries ranging from Australia to Mexico to South Africa. The Organization held its 35th Zionist Congress in 2006 in Jerusalem with some 2000 delegates and observers from all over the world. 510 delegates participated in its proceedings including 145 delegates from the United States.
Christian Zionist support, however, unlike the international World Zionist Organization, is principally centered in the United States. In concert with the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), and the Conference of the Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations (52 Org.) they constitute an enormously well-funded confluence with the Bush/Cheney neocon cabal led United States government's drive for hegemony over the oil and gas reserves of the middle east and the Caspian Sea for the United States based international oil, gas and finance conglomerates.
This organized international Jewish Zionist support centered in the World Zionist Organization is critical to the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government that has been on a 60-year messianic mission to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, which they describe as "Eretz Israel".
According to the Zionists, "Eretz Lsrael" is described in that book of short stories that has become known as the bible in Genesis 15:18-21, Ezekiel 47:13-20 and similarly in Numbers 34:1-15, descriptions which have been adopted by the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government.
According to Prime Minister Ehud Ohmert of Israel in his address before a joint meeting of a genuflecting United States Congress on a May 24 of 2006 Address to Congress,
"For thousands of years, we Jews have been nourished and sustained by a yearning for our historic land. I, like many others, was raised with a deep conviction that the day would never come when we would have to relinquish parts of the land of our forefathers. I believed, and to this day still believe in our people's eternal and historic right to this entire land."
What is not often mentioned is the fact that this biblically defined land that the modern day Jews claim as their "entire land" was acquired, according to the short story accounts of their claimed ancestors, by the genocidal slaughter of the peoples of seven other nations that occupied the land that these modern Jews now claim by "historic right".
The description of this completed genocidal slaughter is the only known written admission of genocide by any of the perpetrators of genocide in recorded history. Even the nazi led German government and the European colonialist led United States government never deigned to produce a written admission of the genocides that they were engaged in. The following are some of the descriptions of this genocide by the ancestors claimed by Olmert and the whole of the Jewish Zionist led government of Israel.
"In Deuteronomy 7:1-36, ".the Lord thy God shall have destroyed many nations before thee, the Hethite, and the Gergezite, and the Amorrite, and the Chanaanite, and the Pherezite, and Hevite, and the Jebusite, seven nations much more numerous than thou art,.thou shalt utterly destroy them. Thou shalt make no league with them, nor show mercy to them: and shall slay them until they are utterly destroyed...and thou shalt destroy their names under heaven: no man shall be able to resist thee, until thou destroy them."
In I Samuel 15:3, "Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath; spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his; but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
In Numbers 31:1-35, ".the Lord spoke to Moses saying: Revenge first the children of Israel on the Madianites...when they fought against the Madianites and had overcome them, they slew all the men. Therefore kill all that are of the male sex, even of the children: and put to death the women that have carnally known men. But the girls, and all the women that are virgins save for yourselves...and the spoils which the army had taken, was...thirty two thousand persons of the female sex that had not known men."
In Numbers 33:50-52, ".the Lord said to Moses: Command the children of Israel. When you shall have passed over to Jordan, entering into the land of Chanaan, Destroy all the inhabitants of that land: beat down their pillars and break in pieces their statues, and waste all their high places."
In I Samuel 27:8-9, "And David and his men went up, and pillaged Gessuri, and Gerzi, and the Amalecites; for these were of old the inhabitants of the countries...David wasted all the land, and left neither man nor woman live."
In Isaiah 13:15-18, "Every one that shall be found shall be slain; and every one that shall come to their aid, shall fall by the sword. Their infants shall be dashed in pieces before their eyes: their houses shall be pillaged, and their wives ravaged...with their arrows they shall kill the children, and shall have no pity upon the sucklings of the womb, and their eye shall not spare their sons."
So the lands that are claimed as "ancestral land" were acquired, according to the writings of Olmert's ancestors, by a genocide that is unprecedented in human history-----unprecedented as regards the scope of the completed annihilation of seven tribal nations and unprecedented as it regards the written admission that they committed the genocide.
With this understanding of the use of the term "Eretz Israel" as used by the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government, it should be apparent that the problems in Palestine goes beyond the immediacy of one or the other of some action of the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government.
For 60 years the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government has invaded Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and the Palestine beyond the 1947 internationally recognized border to recreate the biblically described Eretz Israel originally acquired by the genocidal annihilation of seven tribal nations. This messianic impulse of Jewish nationalists, this messianic program that seeks to expand the territory provided for the creation of the State of Israel by a world's compassion for the nazi-led German government's assault on the Jewish people of Europe has transformed the Jewish Zionist led Israeli State into the mirror of the ancestors that they claim as their own---- a nation with a messianic impulse for genocide.
There are two aspects for the rationale for this messianic impulse. On the one hand, the Israeli occupation, absorption, devastating occupation of the Palestine beyond the internationally recognized 1947-1967 borders is met by a resistance by the people of Palestine--- a resistance that is every bit as justified as the Italian Partisan resistance to the nazi occupied, fascist led Italian Government, every bit as justified as the French resistance to the nazi occupation of France, every bit as justified as Geronimo's leadership of the indigenous resistance to annihilation in what has become the United States, every bit as justified as the Chicasaw resistance to the United States Indian Removal Law that resulted in the "trail of tears". The Jewish Zionist led Israeli government then uses this resistance as the rationale for the continued occupation and absorption of Palestine and the continued assault on the Palestinian people.
Any notion that the struggle of the Palestinian resistance is the equivalent of the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government's massive assault on the Palestine beyond the 1947 borders or that the subsequent continuing assault is to be treated "even-handedly" is shear, unadulterated, vicious sophistry. The behemoth tank demolitions, supersonic jet plane bombings, black hawk helicopter strafing of the people, infrastructure, and property in occupied Palestine is nothing less than a description of the naked aggression of Israel's all-Jewish armed forces.
On the other hand, Jewish Zionist led Israeli government uses the "peace ploy" to counter the justified resistance of the Palestinian people to the continued occupation, absorption of Palestine and the assaults on its people. In this instance, the "peace ploy" as outlined by the Israeli government requires that the Palestinians cease the resistance to the Israeli occupation and absorption of Palestine and the assault on the people of Palestine in order for the Jewish Israelis to cease the occupation and absorption.
Anytime that there is a call for a "negotiated peace" or "a peace broker" or the "peace process" it is a part of the peace ploy that the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government has used for the past sixty years, and a signal that it will be used again, in their strategic objective to absorb the whole of Palestine and parts of Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Lebanon.
It is a ploy that has garnered thousands of additional square miles for the Jewish Zionist Israeli cause to recreate the Eretz Israel of their genocidal messianic impulse.
There is nothing that can be discussed with regard to the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's assault on the people of Palestine without the understanding that it is their strategic objective, already in process for 60 years, to acquire
I am astounded by what I have read here.
I regret posting a comment critical of Israel after reading the fevered bigotry, religious and otherwise that is directed against Jews in these comments. I am tainted by association.
Fools call others fools. Bigots call others bigots. Irrational minds call into question the intelligence of others. Hatred for Jews is proudly proclaimed because of the hateful behaviour of some Jews. I don't sense anywhere a compassionate response to the suffering of the Palestinian People or anyone else for that matter. The injustices visited upon the Palestinians is merely a springboard for anti-Jewish, Judeophobic diatribes that are quite similar to what we have been hearing for over two hundred years. It's not as though any of this Jew-baiting hatred is new.
There is no discussion here of the situation dealt with in the original article, historical or otherwise. Discussion is more in the nature of "I have a better handle on religious truth than you so that makes you ignorant," or "because you don't see reality my way, you are an ignoramous."
No wonder those capable of intelligent discussion don't even bother with getting involved in commenting here. That is a real pity because ICH is a vital source of the information we are not getting from mainstream media and it rather spoils things when such a good service is polluted with the torrent of ad hominem attacks and off-the-wall theories posing as facts that seems to be the norm here.
Worst of all, though, is the arrogant hatred that is so eagerly expressed by the unreflective.
Jews have committed crimes
Christians have committed crimes
Hindis have committed crimes
Budhists have committed crimes
Muslims have committed crimes
Atheists have committed crimes
The Chinese have committed crimes
Russians have committed crimes
Arabs have committed crimes
Spaniards have committed crimes
Zulus have committed crimes
Iroquois have committed crimes
Mexicans have committed crimes
The Swiss have committed crimes
Tongans have committed crimes
Indo-Europeans have committed crimes
Caucasoids, Negroids, Mongaloids and Esquimaux have committed crimes
The French, Zimbabweans, Chileans and Fijians have committed crimes
The short and the tall, the fat and the thin have committed crimes.
We need to deal with the individuals who commit crimes. As soon as you start talking about groups, you begin to venture onto to the thin ice that can easily plunge you into the myriad forms of racist bigotry and xenophobia it is our moral duty to guard against.
to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.
Every move that they make, every peace ploy that they engender, every bomb that they drop, every farm that they destroy, every targeted assassination that they make, every Palestinian child that is starved, every Mosque, every school, every Palestinian government building or home that they demolish, every action that they take in Palestine and in the Middle East that their counterparts take in the United States, every political, ideological, philosophical, religious statement that they make is driven by the messianic, genocidal impulse to recreate Eretz Israel.
The Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Government of Israel has no intention of doing anything but continuing the ongoing assault on Palestine and its people until it has absorbed the whole of Palestine. Part of its modus operandi is the peace ploy that is designed to never arrive at the creation of a viable Palestinian state.
That is what they are about and that is the source of their genocidal impulse.
Aside from the Jewish Zionist led Israeli activity, we are confronted in the United States with an extremely well organized, well funded Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported significant segments of the Jewish community that has been at the forefront in support of the Bush/Cheney neocon cabal led United States government's invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, Iraq, its threatened invasion of Iran and its clandestine operations in Pakistan.
Jewish Zionists and their Christian Zionist supporters are certainly collaborators in the Bush/Cheney neocon cabal led United States government's invasion and occupations to secure hegemony over the oil and gas reserves of the middle east and the Caspian Sea for United States oil and finance conglomerates as it intensifies the political organization of the state apparatus of the United States to suppress the resistance and opposition that the cost and tragedy imposed on the people of the United States engenders.
The express statements of support for these operations by the Zionist led Anti-Defamation League (ADL), by the Zionist dominated American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), by the Zionist dominated Conference of the President's of Major Jewish Organizations. The participation of this significant, well-funded element of the Jewish community in the production of the world-dominating scheme detailed in the Project for A New American Century is notorious. This well organized support is distinct from the opposition to these operations by the majority of people of the United States.
Much as these pitiful panderers to the power of the United States might suppose that they are in control of their destiny, it behooves them to consider the fate of Pinochet, Noriega, Marcos, Batista, Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran, the Taliban and now Musharraf when the rubber hits the road of the interests of United States international conglomerates.
In the meantime, we will watch these Jewish Zionists engaged in the fantasy of their messianic nightmare that will proceed with the unabated slaughter of the Palestinians.
And, in case we have any doubt, the Palestinians currently attempting to escapethe Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's messianic, genocidal impulse join the millions of Palestinians that have already been driven out of their homeland to live in the squalor of the refugee camps.
For those that have succumbed to the corporate media conglomerate's hype and have engaged in sounds of rejoicing for the Palestinian "breakout" from Gaza, the following statements of Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi Yona Metzger in Israel should begin the process of getting them to take their heads out of the clouds. The statements are certainly significant enough in Israel to be placed in its major "liberal" newspaper with international internet distribution. Obviously what occurred at the wall between Palestine's Gaza and Egypt was a forced exodus of Palestinians through a devised break in the separation wall built by the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government.
If there is any one that believes that the all Jewish Israeli armed forces, that shoot Palestinian teenagers throwing rocks at tanks or shoot Palestinians getting water at the public water taps after an Israeli imposed curfew, were taken by surprise when the wall that they built was knocked down by a behemoth bulldozer, I'd like to have the opportunity to sell them the Brooklyn Bridge.
The only difference between this forced exodus and the others that occurred in 1947-48, in 1967, in Jerusalem, and all over Palestine to build the armed Jewish settlements, is that this exodus was forced by a total siege of food, medicine, water and electricity in combination with terrifying raids and incursions into Gaza by the all Jewish Israeli army, navy and air force toting United States supplied weapons, planes and helicopters. In those other, earlier forced exodus of millions that are now living in the squalor of refugee camps, the forced exodus was produced by the terror created in a slaughter of innocents by the all Jewish that became Israeli forces and the scorched earth policy applied by them to Palestinian towns.
The blessed Rabbi's plan, according to Haaretz, would be "to take all the poor people from Gaza to move them to a wonderful new modern country with trains buses cars, like in Arizona - we are now in a generation where you can take a desert and build a city. This will be a solution for the poor people - they will have a nice country, and we shall have our country and we shall live in peace."
See http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spa...ges/
948907.html
But that is not the whole of it. On the other side of the world in the Wall Street Journal's pages referenced on their Editorial page, Bret Stephans writes,
"The Egyptian-Israeli treaty may ultimately have to be revised to take account of the changing facts on the ground. Israel, too, will have to rethink some basic strategic assumptions. Supporters of Ariel Sharon's "disengagement" plan -- present company included -- can take a measure of satisfaction in noting that Gaza is increasingly becoming an Arab problem rather than an Israeli one. But in addition to the physical challenge of having to defend against incessant (if so far rarely deadly) rocket attacks from Gaza, and reinforce its long desert border with Egypt, Israel must also now consider the possibility that the current regime in Egypt may not long survive the death of its soon-to-be octogenarian president." See http://online.wsjcom/article/
glo...lobal_view.html
So it should be obvious in considering the matter, that there is nothing that can be discussed with regard to the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's assault on the people of Palestine without the understanding that it is their strategic objective, already in process for 60 years, to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon devoid of their historical inhabitants.
It bears repeating----Every move that they make, every peace ploy that they engender, every bomb that they drop, every farm that they destroy, every targeted assassination that they make, every Palestinian child that is starved, every Mosque, every school, every Palestinian government building or home that they demolish, every olive grove that they flatten, every action that they take in Palestine and in the Middle East and that their counterparts take in the United States is driven by the messianic, genocidal impulse to recreate Eretz Israel.
It is a pattern of expulsion has been reproduced consistently for the past sixty years not only in Palestine but also in portions of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt with the Jewish Israelis claiming the land and resources of the areas of the expelled population.
In order to put an end to this genocidal messianic impulse of the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government we must insist, demand, support, and encourage that the international community use the force of economic boycott and economic sanctions to have the Zionist led Israeli government withdraw from the occupation of the Palestine beyond the 1947 internationally recognized border and to have them cease the blockade of Palestine's water, electricity, sewer, air space, sea coast, and borders.
That is a plan that is in keeping with International Law, the Geneva Convention, and the Convention on Human Rights.
In the meantime, the people of Palestine have the right under International Law to resist the occupation by any means necessary or available.
William C. Carlotti
Vermont
Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 10:49 am | #
number of crimes committed on a scale and depth of atrocities committted by number zionist
ashkanazi jews worldwide - unparralled - unequalled in history by far most horrific and most deceitful as judas up to including nor present time
Lawrence Boxall offers a well known defense of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported slaughter of innocents in occupied Palestine.
It requires that we write a treatise on all the slaughter of innocents if we write a criticism of Israel's slaughter of innocents; it requires that we write a treatise on all the confiscation of sovereign territories if we write a criticism of Israel's confiscation of the sovereign Palestinian territory that is beyond the internationally recognized border of Israel: it requires that we write a treatise on all the blanket bombings, bulldozing of houses, farms, schools if we write a criticism of Israel's blanket bombings, bulldozing of houses, farms schools;, it requires that we write a treatise on all targeted assassinations of the political leaders of a country if we write a criticism of Israel's targeted assassinations of the political leaders of Palestine; it requires that we write a criticism of all viciously destructive groups like the nazis, the fascists,the racists, the klu klux klan if we write a criticism of the Jewish Zionists and their internecine Christian Zionists.
It is a pattern of clever exceptionalism that serves to ignore the focus on the justified criticism and transfer the focus on to the critic.
Concerning religion:
The problem is the same everywhere.
If you can make people believe anything, they will do anything.
When this catholic German Shepherd, the Pope & his Clowns were in Cologne, it wasn't only close: it was scary as hell! I did a story on it: "The Catholic Church", the Pope said on World Youth Day in Germany on Sunday: "is like a net full of fish: you got the good ones and the baddies." But fish still starts rotting at the head.
COLOGNE, Germany - Aug. 21 - 2005 - One of the friends I had in Sweden was honest about it: "You know why I became a priest?", he said: "because they refused me at the Royal Swedish Theater Academy and a couple of acting studios. So I thought: I want to act and at the same time make some money.
The solution was that I joined the Swedish State Church, Svenska Statskyrkan. Now I'm even paid to dress up, and can act as much as I want to and feel like. For the Sunday show - sermon as it's called - I can write my own text! I'm earning a reasonable salary and I get more respect from the poor ignorants in my parish than I'll ever deserve. Churches are perfect stages, it's the best theater on earth!"
From my point of view that sounded like a perfectly normal explanation, being born and bred into a traditional catholic family and having seen some school friends disappear into the magic incense clouds of 'Rome's Ringling Brothers'; the catholic variety of the circus of Barnum & Bailey: the Vatican." - [end excerpt]
The rest is here in Beirut, where since the last Israeli invasion Indymedia isn't in cyberspace anymore, but the archive still works. - TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/aksm7
To 'make' your weekend maybe, why not see what one of my favorite US troubadours, Tom Lehrer, sang about superstition in 1965 - a long time ago it seems - in his song "The vatican rag."
Another big news story of year concerned the ecumenical council in Rome, known as Vatican II. Among the things they did in an attempt to make the church more commercial was to introduce the vernacular into portions of the mass, to replace Latin, and to widen somewhat the range of music permissible in the liturgy, but I feel that if they really want to sell the product, in this secular age, what they ought to do is to redo some of the liturgical music in popular song forms. I have a modest example here. It's called The Vatican Rag.
TinyUrl.: TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/pd79n
But it was really scary to see one million of this kind of Hitler Youth, some kind of catholic believing 'Hitlerjugend', youth who have never seen the pictures of German 'cardinals' and other jesters, blessing attack airplanes, soldiers, horses, cars and canons before they were off to the East front, to die...
And if I'd go around and explain that both their german Stuka planes and the british Spitfires flew on Rockefeller's 'Standard oil' company's fuel, they wouldn't have believed it...
But, look around you: the so called 'christians' are soon up to three million deaths in Iraq alone.
Many should be glad not to be a 'christian', so they don't need to kill for what they're told to believe.
JEWS ARE ATTACKED DAILY WORLDWIDE
WHETHER IT BE IN EUROPE
OR ISRAEL
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 1:30 am |"
~~~~~
i wonder why
RE: bvc | 07.26.08 - 6:55 am |
Bvc:
The lure of easy money, instant fortunes, and the promise of power is what has enticed and ensnared many non Jews into the unfortunate alliance with the Jewish power structure - with the objective to bring down freedom, republics, democracy and destroy the world and all the goodness of decent people trying to change the world and make it a better place. Some of our non Jewish conspirators (especially our reps in D.C.) have been bribed and blackmailed beyond all reason.
The collaboration with the Jewish banking cartel along with some very greedy-not-so-bright non Jews has been a recipe for success for the Jews in their quest for world domination for at least a couple of hundred years here in the U.S. The U.S. is under ZOG-Jewish-Zionist-AIPAC-Israeli occupation and control. Also, there are many other people posting on this forum who can also give you some outstanding books – Internet references-resources to read regarding the collaboration between Jews and non-Jews.
Here are some book recommendations – these books are not pleasant to read. In fact, they are painful to read, but necessary nonetheless if you are to understand the Jewish powers behind the levers and behind the curtain who are setting out to destroy the world. These books are not mainstream (not printed by the Jewish book publishing cartel) and therefore, you will become de-programmed from all the Jewish propaganda, ideological subterfuge and social conditioning you have been subjected to for many years:
- None Dare Call It Conspiracy – Allen
- Case Against the Fed – Rothbard
- The Creature From Jekyll Island - Griffin
- Treason: The New World Order – Gurudas
- Barbarians Inside the Gates – Donn de Grand Pre
- The Synagogue of Satan – Andrew Carrington Hitchcock
- Jewish History, Jewish Religion New Edition:
The Weight of Three Thousand Years - Israel Shahak
- Painful Questions – An Analysis of 9/11 – Hufschmid
- The Life of an American Jew in Racist, Marxist Israel - Jack Bernstein
- Tragedy and Hope - Carroll Quigley
- Controversy of Zion – Douglas Reed
(There are many other good books out there on this subject – but these have always been my favorites)
(I provided Internet links on my post upthread-last night)
My objective for posting on this forum has always been altruistic if not slightly idealistic: I want to change the world and make it a better place. I’ve had some of my posts deleted and otherwise censured in the past 10-11 months I’ve been on this forum, but I never give up. I’ll keep blogging-commenting on this forum and other forums until the Jews shut down the Internet. When this occurs, I’ll probably resort to more primitive ways of promulgating-disseminating information to others – hand photocopying and distributing information.
Cheers and peace.
Raymond /anonymous 23:
Part I:
Thanks for the kind words, but there are many others on this forum with valuable information – including yourself! I don’t believe I qualify for the dubious distinction of: “most informed”. My motive for posting on this and other forums: I really am posting and blogging to change the world and make it a better place. Honestly, I believe I’m still in the learning process and still researching to learn more and more everyday about these issues. However, time is running out, the Jews-Zionists-Israelis are advancing an evil global agenda even as we post on this forum, with the objective of complete annihilation of this planet and - every living creature on this planet. 9/11 was just a warning from them. Here are more posters who offer great information and good contributors to this forum (sorry if I left anyone out of this equation – there are many others – can’t remember all the monikers-screen names):
Refirex
Raymond /anonymous 23
Richard
Anonymous – you know who you are-which anonymous you are!
Observer
Atheo
Henk Ruyssenaars
Nahida
Isabella
Charlie Boy
Veronica
Tacitus
Pippi
Cadavre
Hamish Brown
Informer
Jerry Gates
Tom Posten
Cracker
Remember Rabbi Leibowitz
38
Blizzard
Larry Craig
Guerrero
Continued.......
Part II:
continued:
Tiddlywinks
Emmanuel
Eileen Fleming
Ricardo Junios Stanton
Clean Kiwi
Paulo
Another Old US Vet
Cat
Kats
Darkbeaver
Doubtom
GO
Lowry
Harvey
Ol’ Joe
PVC
Ironhead
Nic
Azkin13
Praedor Atrebates
Susan
Marilyn
DeadGI
Tom Paine
John B
QodsPiece
Malcom Martin
GeeGee, Italy
republicanSScareme
Abdulla syed salamah ali mahdi h
Bitin Dawg
Mirek
Et al – many others whose names I can’t remember
My apologies if I excluded anyone else, these were the names that came to mind, and if I misspelled anyone’s name – I apologize.
RE: Angel Gabriel – give it a rest. Your long-protracted lament against Atheo is getting more moronic-absurd-imbecilic by the minute. Perhaps your main concern is that everyone on this forum is ignoring you – not Atheo.
Cheers and peace.
Voice of the White House July 25, 2008
TBR News.org ñ July 25, 2008
ìWhat America is now facing is the title of OíNeillís play, ëA Long Dayís Journey Into Night.í Congress has rushed through a Band-Aid bill to : ëhelpí home owners but it is far too little and far too late to do any good. Major banks like Wachovia, Chase and Bank of America are tottering and no one is lending money to anyone anymore.
LET IT BE LET IT BE - speaking words of wisdom LET IT BE
THEY BIT OFF MORE THAN THEY COULD CHEW - TOO GREEDY
THANKS TO BRAVE COURAGEOUS FREEDOM FIGHTERS - US HAS BEEN MADE TO SPEND BILLIONS AND MAYBE ALL FOR NAUGHT !!
if us goes so will isr - it will be worth it just to have isr go - they need to go
may it be a long and deep recession !! tho it's too bad ordinary us citizens will suffer
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/...cle.asp?
ID=9035
William c carlotti was writing his remarks at the same time that I was writing my last remarks. My remarks are not directed at him and by and large I agree with the thrust of most of what he says.
Two things must be noted, however.
Firstly, a significant contribution to the Israeli military is that of the Druze who are not Jewish. The Druze, when they saw which way the wind was blowing in 47/48 during the ethnic cleansing of what was to become Israel, decided it was in their interests to side with the Jews and they have served enthusiastically in the IDF ever since.
Secondly, the early Zionist settlers were mostly atheists as were a significant proportion of Jews prior to the Holocaust. During the 40 years since the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, Jewish religious fundamentalists have been in the forefront of the movement to settle in the occupied territories and so the settlements have become a magnet for vicious fundamentalists from all over the world who make these outrageous statements about doing God's work when they commit atrocities against Palestinians. Omert's use of the bible to justify crimes against humanity is no different to the Spanish Inquisition or the Islamic militant's use of religion and religious text for opportunistic political and financial ends. (Not forgetting how Bush uses religion to justify his crimes against humanity.) All of these uses of religion are callous, but one must be careful not to condemn the religions and all their followers for the crimes of those who use religion to manipulate others to bend to their aims.
Hide Behind -
You needn't worry about MOST of the
Christian Zionists in America; they
are fat, uneducated, and lazy - for the most part. They listen to the likes of John Hagee and his over-fed
son, strutting around spewing propaganda about Jews and "Chosen" -
as if they were one-and-the-same.
THAT is the biggest lie of all. THOSE
are the stupidest bunch of sheep alive. They are not much threat, at all, in their placated, bovine mode.
(But that's all gonna end real soon - and those sheep will awaken. They'll
be REAL MAD, too. Hagee and his ilk
had better find another place to hide!)
Pippi you say " JEWS ARE ATTACKED DAILY WORLDWIDE" Even though it is not true now Pippi it will be true when the time comes to bring zion down to their hell, And that time is quickly comming to the insane, barbaric murdering israeli's.
RE: Angel Gabriel. Or should I say devil Gabriel? The world knows your address 666 devil place. It shows in just about everything you say. What you say always comes out 666.
Yet some even worse than you have become good human beings so there may be hope for you and your kind. IF they accept truth and rite from wrong.
William c carlotti | Homepage | 07.26.08 - 10:49 am
===========================
Thank you for a Brilliant post
.
xzp
( If the Truth can be told , so as to be understood ,it will be Believed ) and more for the Courageous ( The Lion Hearted ) from those believers,
To act his/her believe ..
Which bring us to the indisputable Fact?
That this feat is :
The Hardest thing, a living Man could do
God of Heaven Bless those Men
For they are our, Legend on Earth
Now for the = WHY = that makes you care, as I do care, as all those you named, and few more, certainly do care... (Spare a thought to the person that made all happen ...= Tom =)
And = WHY = some others that look like us, do not care, or seem they do not care..?
And = WHY = some others that look like us, support the = ABHORANNT =, or , act as its cheerleaders..?
It is that little thing; one can not feel with senses or comprehend by thoughts
It is the substance that we certainly share with the world of beast, that we The Homo sapiens, had the chance and the good fortune to develop it... (But few of us ignore it; hence suck it below the world of beast ..!)
= It is Substance of Godliness =
Our number is increasing day by day...and those supporting the Dark side dwindling at an encouraging rate...
That makes you and me and all those others a = Winners =
We are The Band, The salt and pepper of this World
Our march is forward
No surrender No retreat (We owe it to all those able bodies, the old, young and the very young, that they are no longer with us, and those wounded and scared for life)
correction
to post
(But few of us ignore it; hence sunk below the world of beast ..!)
Not as typed
@Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 11:36 am:
PLS read again what I think concerning religion: The problem is the same everywhere. If you can make people believe anything, they will do anything.
If there's any kind of 'God' around - omnipotent - who's responsible for all those millions of deaths by the US/UK/Israeli/NATO warmachine, pls: I know millions who want to talk to him!
Give us a break, Lawrence!
@pippi - 07.26.08 - 11:34 am - Quote: "if us goes, so will isr - it will be worth it just to have isr go - they need to go. May it be a long and deep recession !! tho it's too bad ordinary us citizens will suffer."
Pippi, I'm afraid the murderous money mafia will not suffer the way we think, so we must keep spreading the information.
As far as I know, and see the malignant results here in Europe, most of this criminal crowd - while they are getting the last drops of bloodmoney out of the US and many of it's colonies - moved to Europe, and their headquarters, the Evil Empire in London again. For those who don't know yet where for instance also the prices of fuel (transport) and food are 'fixed': - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/2zj7wl
They are now further getting the European Union in line with the rest of their trade blocks, and the only question one should ask again and again is: Who Profits?
Why do you think 'they' called it: EURONEXT?
And 'they' again print the 'Euros' out of thin air: just paper and ink and computers that make the zeros and ones...
No European 'state' or similar is responsible. Brussels and the so called European Central Bank will tell'm! It's the same Ponzi scheme all over! That's why it's called Euronext I think :-(
TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/3646kz
Many of those mentally disturbed creeps, now thinking they're 'the driving force' in their 'Project for a New America' - PNAC, have forgotten what 2005 Nobel Literature Prize winner Harold Pinter said:
"People do not forget. They do not forget the death of their fellows, they do not forget torture and mutilation, they do not forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, they do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers. They not only don't forget: they also strike back."
And people will get'm, one way or another...
Soon, many hope.
Gotto go.
22.25 hrs in Europe.
CU tomorrow!
Good night.
The sooner Israel is blown off the face of the Earth the better. Nazi Government backed up by hateful bigots.
This topic must have set a record for comments. I add just this question: Is it anti semitic to be against the actions of the Israeli government. I don't like it when the Israeli Air force attacks Lebanon, or Syria, or Iraq just because they can get away with it. And it pissed me off when the Israeli soldiers fired assault rifles at kids throwing rocks in the entifada uprisings. I don't want Israel to attack Iran and start another war. But I don't hate Jews as a people. To my knowledge I have never been mistreated by a Jewish person though I know some policy makers may be Jews. I just don't think criticizing Israel makes one an anti semite. Am I right or wrong? Oh..I think the whole religious discussion about Jew's being God's chosen people is a large part of the problem. All of us are equal as far as I'm concerned.
The extreme to which the Jews will go was shown in Persia where the Jew Mordecai and the Jewess Esther had 75,800 Persians murdered. They hanged the Persian King Xerxes' minister Haman along with his ten sons. They celebrated this bloody victory and to this day still celebrate it during the Feast of Purim. (Book of Esther 9:6)
After Christ in the years 115-117, on the island of Cyrene, the Jews revolted under their leader Bar Kochba. They murdered 220,000 Romans, sawed and chopped them, drank their blood, and ate their bloody raw flesh. (Dio Cassius: Roemische Jeschichte XVIII, 32)
The Jews revolted in Russia in 1917 and established bolshevism under the leadership of Trotsky, Sinojeff and other Jews, a total of 35 million Christians were shot, slayed, tortured, and starved to death. In Hungary, under the leadership of the Bolshevik Jew Bela Kuhn, a horrible massacre was prepared in which tens of thousands of Christians were murdered.
"'The Jewish Establishment": 'In the early 1930s, Walter Duranty of the New York Times was in Moscow, covering Joe Stalin the way Joe Stalin wanted to be covered. To maintain favor and access, he expressly denied that there was famine in Ukraine even while millions of Ukrainian Christians were being starved into submission. For his work Duranty won the Pulitzer Prize for journalism. To this day, the Times remains the most magisterial and respectable of American newspapers. How imagine that a major newspaper had had a correspondent in Berlin during roughly the same period who hobnobbed with Hitler, portrayed him in a flattering light, and denied that Jews were being mistreated, thereby not only concealing, but materially assisting the regime's persecution. Would that paper's respectability have been unimpaired several decades later? There you have an epitome of what is lamely called 'media bias.' The Western supporters of Stalin haven't just been excused; they have received the halo of victim hood for the campaign, in what liberals call 'the McCarthy era,' to get them out of the government, the education system, and respectable society itself. Not only persecution of Jews but any critical mention of Jewish power in the media and politics is roundly condemned as 'anti-Semitism.' But there isn't even a term of opprobrium for participation in the mass murders of Christians. Liberals still don't censure the Communist attempt to extirpate Christianity from Soviet Russia and its empire, and for good reason, liberals themselves, particularly Jewish liberals, are still trying to uproot Christianity from America. It's permissible to discuss the power of every other group, from the Black Muslims to the Christian Right, but the much greater power of the Jewish establishment is off-limits. That, in fact, is the chief measure of its power: its ability to impose its own taboos while tearing down the taboos of others, you might almost say its prerogative of offending. You can read articles in Jewish-controlled publications from the Times to Commentary blaming Christianity for the Holocaust or accusing Pope Pius XII of indifference to it, but don't look for articles in any major publication that wants to stay in business examining the Jewish role in Communism and liberalism, however temperately." (The Jewish Establishment, Joseph Sobran, September 1995 issue)
In Jewish-Bolshevik Soviet Russia mass murders are even now (1997) are being carried out. The executioners are mostly Jewish men and women. In inventing new methods of torture the Jews are past masters. To let Christians die under torture give them the greatest pleasure. English reporters write that the Chinese executioners frequently would not carry out their tortures and executions; they shouldered and could not continue. Therefore, Jews and Jewesses took their place.
"The Jews were now free to indulge in their most fervent fantasies of mass murder of helpless victims. Christians were dragged from their beds, tortured and killed. Some were actually sliced to pieces, bit by bit, while others were branded with hot irons, their eyes poked out to induce unbearable pain. Others were placed in boxes with only their heads, hands and legs sticking out. Then hungry rats were placed in the boxes to gnaw upon their bodies. Some were nailed to the ceiling by their fingers or by their feet, and left hanging until they died of exhaustion. Others were chained to the floor and left hanging until they died of exhaustion.
"Others were chained to the floor and hot lead poured into their mouths. Many were tied to horses and dragged through the streets of the city, while Jewish mobs attacked them with rocks and kicked them to death. Christian mothers were taken to the public square and their babies snatched from their arms. A red Jewish terrorist would take the baby, hold it by the feet, head downward and demand that the Christian mother deny Christ. If she would not, he would toss the baby into the air, and another member of the mob would rush forward and catch it on the tip of his bayonet.
"Pregnant Christian women were chained to trees and their babies cut out of their bodies. There were many places of public execution in Russia during the days of the revolution, one of which was described by the American Rohrbach Commission: 'The whole cement floor of the execution hall of the Jewish Cheka of Kiev was flooded with blood; it formed a level of several inches. It was a horrible mixture of blood, brains and pieces of skull. All the walls were bespattered with blood. Pieces of brains and of scalps were sticking to them. A gutter of 25 centimeters wide by 25 centimeters deep and about 10 meters long was along its length full to the top with blood. Some bodies were disemboweled, others had limbs chopped off, some were literally hacked to pieces. Some had their eyes put out, the head, face and neck and trunk were covered with deep wounds. Further on, we found a corpse with a wedge driven into its chest. Some had no tongues. In a corner we discovered a quantity of dismembered arms and legs belonging to no bodies that we could locate.'" (Defender Magazine, October 1933)
The history of the Jews is written in the blood of Christians.
"Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value for Jews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for us Jews. Wars are the Jews' Harvest: The Jew banks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." (Rabbi Reichorn, speaking at the funeral of Grand Rabbi Simeon Ben-Judah, 1869, Henry Ford also noted that: 'It was a Jew who said, 'Wars are the Jews' harvest'; but no harvest is so rich as civil wars.' The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem, Vol. III, p. 180)
Little history..
Its all a grand plan and well documented by the late Dr. Professor Israel Shahak in his seminal book Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight Of Three Thousand Years.
He explains in detail the root of some of the racist policies that the past and current Israeli governments have penacted and traces it back to racist Talmudic ideology, which portrays everybody except Jews as inferior and therfore may be maltreated like vermins and animals. As you know many Jews refer to Palestinians as snakes and vermins, words directly mimicked from the Talmud.
These same policies enacted by the Keneset and the state in daily life as seen and read. Like confiscation of Palestinian land. the racist land ownership laws, residency laws. I di dnot know that Jews were not allowed to sell land to Palestinains but a Jew wanting to buy a palestinian lad would be subsidised by the sate under law of redemption - ethnic cleansing in other words. And it is all sanctioned as religious duty by the Talmud.
Its a mind opening book. If you want to know what lies behind the Israeli government policies of greater Israel, expansionist wars and Nazi like policies then you should read this book.
Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight Of Three Thousand Years.
"There WAS potential for intelligent thought and discussion on this thread..."
I have read your commnents for years Angel Gabriel, and God knows that if there was EVER any intelligent discussion or thought, it NEVER EVER came from you.
My turn to yawn and say...what did I tell you ladies and gentlemen: Nothing to contribute but belligerence. Ever. And then Mr phD goes on to give everyone a collective F-You.
Hard to understand how someone with an education is so lacking in gray matter and self-discipline...Perhaps you need to check the expiry date on that Cracker Jack box you pulled that degree out of. Yawn.
The Jews say they are:
"Light upon the world" or some shit like that. Well all we can see is darkness and evil comming from the vipers nest.
Counry that routinely threatens its neigbours with nukes, invasions, steals peoples land, manupulates wars between nations to profit, kills childrens as a state policy, tortures people as a policy, practices Nazi type ethnic celansing and threatens genocide on an unarmed occupied and starved population and then dares to call it self as the God's "chosen people", some supremacist race.
Nazis did waht they Jews in Israel is doing and suppported b vas majority of Jews. They Nazis also believed they were superior race than the everyone, especially the Jews.
Look whats happened to the Nazis.
Eileen Flemming--Thanks for the excerpt from Rev Naim Ateek's speech. would love to read/hear the entire speech.
Americans are a gullible and naive people.
Americans are essentially powerless, something that is taught to every child who is not of privilege early on. We don't rise up and make a big stink because we know there's no point; such efforts are wasted efforts. We know that our time is better spent in trying to keep our own heads above water as in our economic system, if you suffer misfortune you often don't recover. It's in large part a dog-eat-dog world in the US, something those in charge love as it keeps the masses fighting over the scraps rather than seeing and trying to change the big picture.
The Jew: Commissary to the Gentiles
By Marcus Eli Ravage
Published in
The Century Magazine
February 1928
http://www.geocities.com/
alabast...commissary.html
Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 10:49 am, another mental castrato jewnazi psychopath...
Finally, anonymous has said something intelligent. Yes, the elites keep us fighting over scraps. That keeps us disorganized. We need our own Lenin.
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/...s2/
0322.htm#Top
Newest article by Jonathan Cook author of "Blood and Religion" and
"Israel and the Clash of civilisation, Iraq,Iran and the plan to remake the Middle East"
Excellent books and website.
Chohttp://duyviet.org/ung:
Choung
Thanks for the link to your homepage. The photos really drive home the barbarism meted out to the Iraqi's in Abu Ghraib aided by Israeli agents in iraq
may god continue in blessing amerika.lol
To understand Israeli behaviour( different from Jewish) one has to accept that the setting up of Israeli was abetted by the British who had the mandate over Palestine but was sustained by the belief of the Israelis that they were the chosen people and they are in this world to await the coming of the Messiah. This has been sustained by their very visible practice of the Sabbath, dietary habits and business. In that context the Holocaust was one more event like the destruction of the Temple or the removal to Babylon.
In the Bible the Jews had two ways of conquering their enemies- by direct assault and destruction or by assimilation. Very frequently when they tried assimilation the younger ones got assimilated and then they were chided for betraying Yahweh for adopting the ways of the pagans.
Islam is following a similar path. It believes that Man drifted away from God and received many prophets of whom the greatest and last was Mohammed. I believe (I have not verified this) the Koran contains the five books of the Torah and some of the New Testament. They believe that the Torah of the Jews and the New Testament of the Christians have been doctored by human beings and they have the true version in the Koran. (We are familiar with the dissensions over the interpretation of the Bible amongst Christians). Islam considers Jews and Christians as People of the Book entitled to some respect and all the others as pagans.
Young Jews must be getting fed up with their lives based on their identity as the Chosen people and young Islamists would be resisting being identified with their interpretation as another chosen people just as young Christians are rebelling against the interpretation of their religion. In a globalised world where everyone is brainwashed, even willingly, to believe that life is all about self-fulfilment, personal pleasure and success any unintelligible restrictions are to be overthrown. This attitude is threatening all cultures and is even supported by appealing to the UN Declaration on Human Rights to justify everything from homosexual life styles to temporary insanity as a defence for murder. Patriotism is an acceptable defence against war and genocide and murder and rape of large populations.
This does not mean that we should do away with all religion. Even animals do not give up their natural culture. They die out if it is denied. Human beings are different. The problem lies in making their religion, their intrinsic faith relevant in the modern world. How do you relate Scripture stories written in an agricultural or nomadic desert or unindustrialised, non-scientific, non-technological culture to the modern world? We are responding to the oil shortage with a more farseeing approach for the human race (not just the nation) and using technology.
Religion goes beyond this world and it is for their specialists to discern and develop teachings to suit the modern culture. This is happening but at present the older teachers and some of the younger ones who are influenced by them reject the modernisation for their own reasons or self aggrandisement as specialists.
Will this happen? We are all witnessing how Obama has abandoned the United Church of Christ because of Wright and is now looking around for another suitable Church. This must be acceptable to the American electorate who might just be comfortable if he has no such Church. Where is he likely to lead his country based on his won intelligence without any transcendent personal objectives?
There is no simple answer because the problems of today are beyond man’s comprehension, notwithstanding computers, super or personal.
There is one hope. Individual Israelis and Americans and Muslims are accepted. The struggles of the EU show the difficulties of transcending national sovreignity.
I was raised to believe in Zionism,to believe that what was done to the jews by the Nazi's was horrible and no people should have gone through that. I was taught that the jews fought overwhelming odds against those 'arab's' meant to throw them to the sea. I wore with pride a university of Tel Aviv t-shirt my Dad gave me from his trip to Palestine.
Then i dug, and the deeper i dug the dirtier my fingers became. I learned that the western powers, including the good ol' us of a could have taken in jews before and during ww2 and didn't. I learned that to ease their guilt of the crime of the holocaust that they carved up Palestine unfairly. I learned that i was duped and bambboolzed by good marketing of propaganda. An occupation that is now a filthy crime and an abomination done at an ethnic cleansing level since 1948,bordering on cultural genocide. Now with the apartheid wall it is done like an Israeli annoconda squeeze on the pals to force them out. I've since learned that tens of thousands of pals suffer in Israeli jails untried and uncharged,men,women and children. I have photos of kids and old women throwing rocks at some of the nastiest, most powerful tanks in the world used to intimidate,shoot and kill civilians and rock throwers.
Just 6 months ago a mother of 3 and her children were killed by an Israeli tank shell. I contacted the CEO of the Jewish Defense League and told her about it. Her reply: "Thanks for the happy news." She called me an anti-semite for complaining. She is a woman and called the killing of children, happy news. I cried like a baby. I have a video clip of an old woman getting attacked by this monster dog and it bites and then clamps down on her on the wrist. She is a bag of bones, 3 Israeli troops come up,dwaddle around and half-heartily try to get the dog off,after 30 seconds one soldier kicks the dog who then lets go. I have clips of soldiers beating disabled pals at checkpoints,tying up kids on their jeeps so they don't get shot at,a palestinian kid with school books getting hitting hard by IOF's at a checkpoint,and the worst was a clip of a family who just lost their mother due to Israeli fire and the older brother (maybe 12)shushes the sister(maybe 5) for crying,he does this so not to show weakness or tears to the troops, and the list goes on folks.
I don't care who is a pal, who is christian, who is an arab and who is jewish. I just cant stand one group abusing another. I hate injustice, i hate soldiers beating on kids,women and abusing their power. I despise occupations. I am part blackfoot indian and i understand when one groups comes and steals the land from another and then destroys the culture and tries to assimilate. This used to be one our greatest american traits. We stood up to the bully for picking on and abusing the underdog and victim and it didnt matter color of skin,religion or language. CAN'T WE BE THAT AGAIN? i cry in anger,shame and compassion for what goes on,paid for by our taxes, b.s.ed by our evanglists and buried by our politicians who curry AIPAC favor and are afraid of it's wrath. If AmericaKnew.com, The Refusniks,and the Courage to Refuse are all good places to start to learn the truth,and do something folks,please do.
This holy land belongs to the
God of us all who is unbiased and loving to one and all equally. This land should be shared by all.
There is more than meets the eye with Lawrence Boxwell’s comments about Israel.
He makes the claim that a “significant contribution to the Israeli military is that of the Druze who are not Jewish.” The population of Israel on the 60th year of their assault on the Palestine beyond their internationally recognized borders is 7,282,000. Jews constitute 5,499,000 of the population. All Jews, men and women, between the ages of 18 and 45 are required to serve in the armed forces by law.
The total Druze population of Israel is 100,000 and they are the only non-Jews in Israel that are conscripted by law into the armed forces. They are some of poorest of Israel’s population and some 45% of their families are supported by the income received from the military. They constitute a little more than 1% (one percent of the population) and there is considerable resistance in that one percent to the conscription required by the Zionist Jews that dominate its government. In fact, the Druze are relegated to minor positions in the military with few exceptions.
The Israeli armed forces, their clandestine services, their police forces are all Jewish with the minor, insignificant exception of the Druze.
Whether or not the early Zionist settlers were atheists or not is irrelevant to the fact that the claim to the territory that is now Israel and the claim for the Palestine territory that the Jewish Zionist led government is now absorbing is based on the biblical tales. The Jewish fundamentalists are a minority of the population and simply constitute an element of the overall Jewish Zionist 60 year strategic objective to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.
The Jewish Zionists have no justifiable historical claim to the territories that are their strategic objective unless we accept that they are entitled to reconstitute the genocidal slaughter enumerated in the biblical tales that created the biblical Israel.
The Israel that was created by the partition of Mandate Palestine in 1947-48 by the conscience of the world, reeling from the atrocities committed by the nazi-led government of Germany and acting through the member states of the United Nations, is the territory that the Israelis are entitled to----no more, no less.
"Americans are a gullible and naive people", indeed all are.
It comes from you PCR, you wrote the cheques for killing Latinos by their thousands in your back yard when you served the pathological killer Reagan.
Have you resigned as a member of the Republican Party of AmeriKKKa?
Name one person with proof who was gassed at Auschwitz/ Just one.
Israel is a terrorist and oppressive state. Israel, the US and the UK are the real Axis of Evil.
michael hall | 07.26.08 - 5:44 pm
I totally agree with you....the pysche of the human mind is NO different to that attacking dog...Now it has sunk into the minds of the EVIL ZIONISTS. There is no other word to describe IT. May compassion truth and the spiritual love be your guide for eternity..
As for Lawrence Boxall's quote
"Worst of all, though, is the arrogant hatred that is so eagerly expressed by the unreflective.
That
Jews have committed crimes
Christians have committed crimes
Hindis have committed crimes
Budhists have committed crimes
Muslims have committed crimes.......etc etc etc"
Yes I will stand by what you state, and that is in the yesteryears...However, if you are association these crimes today, then you have to link it to the Master Criminal the ZIONIST TODAY who is behind the atrocities 2000 years ago.
They say a little learning is dangerous, and by jove Lawrence, you havent chartered nor mapped out the cunningness of the right wing jew. You only have to read the alignments of the TALMUD to today's zionism, to comprehend the reality, that these MONSTERS are and were behind all those atrocities you conveniently BLAME others. Yes that is exactly what Michael Hall quote about how zionists and many others use ferocious animals against people, and if you can relay it to the NOW, human beings with greed and power in their belt have been transformed like wild beasts from which all abnormal actions take place, surely these are not actions of sane and good intentioned people. LIke you stated its being going on for ions, so what do you suggest we accept zionism and die for it, like the rest did ?
For your information the COMPLIANCE FACTOR is entrenched and bred like a infectious virus from the zionist kith and kin mentality after years of study, planning and preparation (view and listen to the century of the self...by those ultra right wing ambitious jews...then the truth will sink in)
HOwever, you subtly protect and make excuses, and illogically sum it up, by saying 'dont blame the jews for it' or we are bigots. Heh ! I dont care if they were martians or venusians, they are still the bloody criminals in the end, that is what matters. But the reality is that they are right wing jews, and you are on the cover trail like many who are truyl hoodwinked in their arrogant egos, that it is some fictitious figures such as the Illuminatti, for your information, this illuminatti=right wing jews and their whores.
On the other hand, if ALL THE JEWS were against it, logic would dictate that there would not be a bloody serious problem today in the world, apart from the fragmented edcuation which breeds the chosen one mentalities in our socities. Its a paradox in terms if you look at the dimension what the human mind can create...And its DIVISIONS UPON DIVISIONS...I dare say that when we have dealt with the demise of zionism, no doubt there will be another insane group with good ideas initially till WE are led on a merry go round once again.
You have one part right such as the torment and abuse which we are witnessing towards people in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, not forgetting those other world wide citizens controlled by yours faithfully, who put people on the scrap heap and silence them to obscurity, and these very people EXPLOIT us the goys to the limits in more ways than you can expect, and get away with it.
Please get the whole picture right, I would say that NEARLY ALL are against injustices towards anybody, and dont conclude with that fragmented universal statements of humanity-did-it-mind and parrot that WE are bigoted. Also put this in your consciousness and dont mistake between anger and someone who feels passionate...That to me is a CARDINAL SIN for trying to douse out the true feelings for JUSTICE and insert your fraudelent proven wrong freud-like analysis on people, forever trying to make people confused and accept a norm, between these 2 highly charged emotions.
If you cannot address the importance of what we are stating, then please sir, have the temerity to check out the links to prove the point against zionist jews who are at the world wide control centre of practically everything, ranging from destroying educational centres, in schools and universities; the political 2 tier system and all other parties, all under control; the mass media worldwide; the armed forces in predominant countries who get suckers to fight their battles for them, since WW1, WW2, the slave trades, conquest under the subtle name of British, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese, French imperialisms; 99.9% owned lock stock and barrel of the following: male and female, paedophiliacs, (kidnapping children from orphanages...{where no one would miss these children}) straight into the arms of sadistic prostituition, sadistically and psychologically making them dependant to subsitute parents, who had dollar signs in their eyes; then one can look at narcotic smuggling which also has the involvement of the FBI and CIA hooked ironically into greed..One has to look at the opium trade and who runs it...Surely it doesnt involve Chinese, Indians, ord Americans and Latinos, Brits, and other simple nationals...Its this huge ZIONIST CRIMINAL GLOBAL NETWORK OPERATION. Include anything that is not obviousely normal and these cockroaches are behind it. I have seen it with my own eyes and even worked unknowingly for these organisations as to what their goals were.
Sir, please do not offend our integrity, as I know you mean well by citing the treatment of the Palestinians and others, but please get the handle of truth. WE are not ANTI semitic or ultra right wing bullies. WE are pissed off with the same old excuses and lies that is being fed to us, to veer us of course. The only solution I feel is a REVOLUTION which is simmering and boiling like a volcano, and when the shit hits the fan, be prepared now to stand with us or else face the consequences of your blind support to this EVIL MONSTROUS REGIME known as zionism. WE have to be UNITED SIR, and YOU would be most welcomed to check out the factual links provided by people who are TRULY looking for justice, truth, peace, and compassion which is missing in this world.
Finally, dont let your conditioning prevent you from venturing away from the hypnotic media spell, that alternate source of news, apart from the bad karmic mantra which is regurgitated to saturation point to break this guilt compliance complex.
---> Chubbyvortexresister 07.25.08 - 4:25 pm
//First we demonized Palastians...Now we are demonizing Israel!//
I doubt if these two "we"s are the same "we"s.
//I can't imagine they [israel] are worse than Burma or other dictatorships.//
The big difference is that Burmese people consider the behavior of their leaders criminal and did not miss any opportunity to pull them down, as they finally succeeded. Israelis don't consider their government's behavior with palestinians and lebanese criminal and show no intention to fundamentally challenge their rulers.
Opposition politics in this "open" israeli society is limited to a small upper echelon zionist clique and never some one with a mundane life profile makes it to any level of prominence in their leadership, as it did in burma.
Their progressive intellectuals primarily act lone rangeresquely and focus on writing in english to impress nonisraelis and world opinions (that there is opposition to zionism in israel) than any genuine efforts internally (like those who did in burma) to make a dent in the nature of their politics.
It's not only about the criminal behavior of their leadership, but their community's utter disinterest to take care of their criminals themselves. This community acts exactly the same way in the us as well.
Not much is going to be accomplished here, I do not think. Talking about the Zionists and their evil ways, that is. An epiphany is one thing, to change the course of history is yet another.
What I am saying is that those who criticize the status quo and those who control it do not appear to have too much power. Do not misinterpret me; I am not against the criticism - it is warranted and necessary; it is an education for me and for all to read what is written and commented upon here.
But, look at the facts on the ground and see who the crtitics are and the power that they carry. And, further consider from whence it is derived, their criticism and the impending result of that criticism.
For example, those who crticize here are most likely bereft of any power to upset the balance of power. They are meaningless by any political standard.
Look at the real power in society and the consequences thereof. Former President Jimmy Carter is maligned by the Zionists for his interpretation of the facts on the ground in Palestine. He is labeled an anti-Semite. But, it matters not to him of course because he is " retired " more or less and should not fear the weight of the Zionists and their followers. Alternatively, look at what happened to Norman Finkelstein. He criticizes the Lobby and is subsequently removed from his academic position. Is it no wonder that the vast army of academics in America who would like to step up the plate and offer some criticism are reluctant to do so, considering the consequences of such an act?
And, then look upon the candidates for the presidency in the United States. All faithful Zionist sympathizers to the core. George Bush and Barack Obama faithfully make their trip to Israel to offer their enduring support for the State of Israel. Former president Bill Clinton in support of his candidate wife would most assuredly support the Zionist cause in aid of his wife's candidacy. Who knows, however, what thoughts lurk in his inner mind as regards these Zionists and their agenda.
The point of the whole thing boils down to raw power. Critics here must surely know the score; that their criticism is mere criticism and nothing more, with no viable political after effects forthcoming whatsoever.
It is the politician playing the real game of politics who supports with earnest the goals of the Zionists, lest their fate be determined quickly. Is it any wonder therefore that upon reading an article like the one presented here it would enter in one ear and leave the other without even the slightist hint of criticism from the likes of Barack Obama or any other serious political contender? Surely, these individuals know what side the bread is buttered upon?
Lawrence Boxall
I did miss out one important FACTOR which is controlled by the zionist criminal fraternity, and that is the WORLD GLOBAL FINANCIAL EMPIRE, where only a handful are NOT part of it.
Pray tell me if you are sincere, how does one break this money-we-need-to-survive spell without most of the world who would starve, even if we striked out and grew and manufactured our food and living commodetities. The only solution is to start afresh via a Revolution with iron clad security systems, with a solid participation of ALL citizens concerned, leaving not a SINGLE GAP OPENED. This fragmented policy of politicians and individuals representing us is open to all sorts of trickery, deceptions, oscar-winning performances by apes who pretend to look after our welfare, and highway robbery to say the least, hence, the problem of permitting and trusting Dracula with the blood bank (this suitable system approved by the elitish rightwing jewish et al rogues) analogy...I hope you get my drift..
First of all, my thanks to
pas de fie dans matete & Veronica for their responses. then I would like to respond to Carl Baydala with a quote from my son Sean's play "Wine To Blood". He, like all enlightened people which I'm sure you must be, put it this way:
I don't know if there is a Utopia, but I am certain that we must act as though there can be."
@carl baydala - 07.26.08 - 9:00 pm - Quote: "Critics here must surely know the score; that their criticism is mere criticism and nothing more, with no viable political after effects forthcoming whatsoever."
Yes, Carl, most of the critical people on this site and elsewhere in the world know the negative effect of the criticism of the inhuman side of Israel, and many of it's 'chosen people'.
But you forget the most important thing: Knowledge is power!
The controllable information given by many here, is power. The insight and experience of many is shared, and is power! Because they who checked, double checked and learned - like me - share it again with many others, all over the world.
And even a war criminal as former secretary of state Colin Powell said: "It is not anti-Semitic to criticize the policies of the state of Israel." - Remarks at The Conference on Anti-Semitism of The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (April 28, 2004) - Url.: http://tinyurl.com/22p6c
UC? Criticism is right: even the jewish Virtual Library says so...
This concerning Israel's Druze minority, by the way, made me think of the guy who took a pot shot at french 'Gauleiter' and/or 'president' Sarkozy at the airport in Israel. As far as I know this Druze was really trying to kill Sarkozy.
Tim Butcher in Jerusalem, the correspondent of the Telegraph News in the UK, did a follow up story on - what he called: ''NICOLAS SARKOZY ASSASSINATION SCARE: MYSTERY OVER SUICIDE POLICEMAN'' - 26/06/2008 - The policeman who shot himself as French president Nicolas Sarkozy left Tel Aviv airport on Tuesday has been named as Raeed Ghanem, a 32-year-old member of Israel's Druze minority.
But while police sources said they were confident he committed suicide, there was no explanation of why he might have taken his life. Suicide is stigmatised by the Druze and his family insisted it was an accident.
''PROMPTING ARMY SNIPERS TO TAKE HIM OUT''
The mystery stirred interest among Hebrew bloggers who came up with conspiracy theories including one suggestion that he was looking down the telescopic sight on his rifle at the VIP party prompting army snipers to take him out.
Members of his family in the village of Beit Jan in northern Israel said he had been married for eight years with two children and owned his own house. "We scornfully reject the claims that our son took his own life," a family member said. "He was a kindhearted and happy person. "He had a family and there was no reason for him to do such a horrible thing." - [end excerpt] - The interesting rest is at TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/5noflz
Remember Carl & friends: Knowledge is power!
Keep learning and spreading the information!
The political caricature winner of the first prize in the USA
Two kids ,one an Israeli the other a Palestinian ,facing one another
The Israeli kid telling the Palestinian kid that : My father told me, that you Arabs are evil ,terrorists and animals too
The Palestinian kid answer him : My father told me nothing , as your people killed him ..!
A child was once told by his granfdfather that "Ill gotten gains lead to ill fortunes," and that is what is today the case with Israel, the nation and its people.
The claim that the land was given to them by the British and the UN is a lie for they know it was not the British nor the Un who owned the land in first place and he people who gained it did not have any right even under the mandates of their religion to accept it.
It was stolen from others, is still being stolen from others, and the theft of ever more land will not end.
there is no power on earth today that can end it, excpet for the Nation of Israel.
The theft will never end as ill gotten gain demands ill begottn motives in order to retain.
Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 07.26.08 - 11:35 pm | #
Thanks to you personally for highlighting and providing us the vital links. That goes to all those who have been mentioned by xzp and those missed out too.
Henk, you are the big key to this puzzle, for your help is truly helpful. It reminds of me of this important saying 'THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD'
Please keep up with the good work. Love reading your transcripts and the links you provide. It sure has increased and expanded my knowledge into this complex but corrupt world we live in. Once again, Thank You and all those others too.
Best wishes
Richard: you sure made my day 
It's all a matter of sharing, knowing that knowledge is power.
Whether we use it to make Molotov cocktails, or get a deeper understanding of what makes the weels turn and who's behind the curtains...
I've learned a lot here too.
michael hall
You and people like you , That , at one time , was part of the sheepels the laid back, that took all the cabbage spewed out ,by the zionjew owned Media , as true .. this site, ICH and its forums, are as good place as any around , to start rediscovering the truth ,as it really is , on the ground as we speak .. the insights and the analytical view , of some posters with your own input ,Help to disperse the fog of illusions , and the spoon fed propaganda
Thank you for realizing now ,that all they say is a skewed version , i.e. everything but NOT the Truth . that you got to seek out for yourself in the Alternative Media
Well again ,you must have that little inbuilt gismo gadget ( = It is Substance of Godliness = )
That most other seem to be lacking
I mentioned in my post ( raymond /anonymous 23 | 07.26.08 - 12:36 pm | )
Welcome to ( The Band ) as every person killed or injured is one too many ( irrespective of race , religion , colour or his /her geographical location ) our foe is ignorance , bias and tradition ,to keep killing one another .. our energy must be directed to fathom the intrigues of our Cosmic existence , for we are just an infant that has just start , crawling at the sea of infinity
You are a proof to support Henk Ruyssenaars view
And not carl baydala take of it .. not doubting her sincerity ,but then again, the power is knowledge is paramount ..sooner then latter something will materialize ,we are just the farmers preparing the ground
@ George
I’m certainly no fan of Israel and think that Zionism indeed uses the methods of terrorism against the Palestinians. Roberts is right on with his article. Having said that, George, your post shows an appalling ignorance of the facts. I happen to live in Poland, where the Nazis built quite a few death camps during WWII. The six million Jews killed weren’t only in Germany. As far as the “bodies” are concerned, I invite you to visit Poland; I’ll be glad to take you to the camps and show you the piles of ashes full of human bone fragments. Your statement that the ovens were built after the war is just nonsense. Please stop misleading other readers.
michael hall | 07.26.08 - 5:44 pm | #
Thank you for the powerful most moving and heartfelt post, it reflects your compassion and principled morality
Welcome to the family of humanity and good-hearted people who love the world and CARE about its entire inhabitants
After attending a talk by a Jewish speaker regarding the situation in Palestine, I was very moved by what he had to say, and I wrote this poem which I would like to share with and also dedicate to you and all good Jewish people who are not fooled by the zionists criminal ideology
He was a Jew
He was a Jew
An honourable Jew
Speaking with compassion
Siding with the truth
With a big warm heart
A conscience
Clear and pure
Anti-Semitic, we were told
Self-hater, he was called
But simply,
He was a Jew,
An honourable Jew
Supposedly...
One of you
With a tiny huge difference!!!
He has no blood
On his hands
Nor did he steal
Anyone's land
He has a dream
Just like mine
To go together
And visit Palestine
He as a tourist
With me, a refugee
Returning back home
With no reason to flee
He was a Jew
An honourable Jew
.
@ zalpa
Ever been to Auschwitz? I urge you to visit. Perhaps then you won't be tempted to post idiotic questions about proof of the Holocaust. Despite the rantings of some posters here, the Nazis really did exterminate Jews, as well as hundreds of thousands of Poles, including my uncle and maternal grandfather. Proof enough for you?
http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/06.html
Lexemer-read the above article before you shoot your mouth off. Then read the report that NO gas residue has been found anywhere in the 'extermination' chambers! But then, people who report this are jailed for speaking the truth. Don't forget, cholera killed hundreds of thousands during the war. The best way to stop the spread of this disease was to kill the organism infecting the bodies. Don't be so easily led.
http://www.codoh.com/
newrevoices...nrillusion.html
Have you perhaps read about the mass exterminations in Russia, Ukraine and Armenia carried out by the zionists? Being a Pole you should know that this also occurred in your land.
And don't forget the Rothchilds financed Hitler after the zionists had brought Germany to it's knees economically. It was the zionists that declared war on Germany initially.
We are all guilty of being less than our best regardless of who we are.
We have all missed the mark and there is none who is righteous. Not one.
We have failed miserably.
Thank you Tom and William and everybody for the important things you have written here today.
If you google The 42 Commandments of Ma'at you will find that the "10 Commandments" of Moses are taken from the teachings of the ancient Egyptians - and some scholars think that even the Sermon on the Mount originated with Tutenkhamun.
Anyway, it is the teachings whihc matter - and I love the teachings of Christ, where ever they came from - though I am not a Christian. I find Islam, judging from the little I know of the culture of Islam - magnificent mosques, the importance of family, the strict moral code to be beautiful and deeply impressive.
As for Judaism, the people who follow that ideology (one cannot really call it a religion. There is nothing transcendent about it. It is a materialistic ideology - nothing more.) I do not know of any culture of the people who follow this way. They seem to be unable to understand what is right and what is wrong - and they never stop lying, they kill children, even for sport, they are crude, callous and seem to be completely amoral, without conscience, without shame, without pride - real pride as opposed to ugly and stupid arrogance.
Worst of all they tell themselves that they are different, better and must be separate! That is so clearly and obviously utter rubbish that it is simply ludicrous - laughable for Heaven's sake!
I am also disgusted with their ever going on about the "holocaust". I have said so before and I mean it - I honestly do not care at all about their so called "holocaust" and the more they talk about it and the more they expect the World to cringe and cower because of their so called "holocaust" the more disgusted and revolted I feel.
It is no good, but someone should try to explain to them that it is shameful to go on and on about one's own suffering, and when it is at the expense of others, Human Beings, it is astonishing and disgraceful and simply disgusts us all.
I am afraid that the Jews are without grace, dignity, honor, courage or truth.
Ther is only one thing to do if you are born into a Jewish family and that is to repudiate the whole thing asap.
It is so absurd. For example, there was a man called Ut-Nishpatim. God whispered to him through the reed walls of his house and told him that he must quickly build a boat, an ark, because a great flood was coming. Ut-Nishpatim got busy and built the ark. He filled it with seed, plants, animals and food and gold and silver and jewels. Sure enough Ut-Nishpatim was awoken early one morning by the sound of a mighty wind and he hurried his family on board.
This was in ancient Sumeria in the reed country in what is now Southern Iraq.
The wind came roaring in and it rained and rained until there was no more ground to be seen but only water everywhere. It was a most terrible storm. Even the Gods were horrified and afraid.
After several days of this it became calmer. Ut-Nishpatim released a dove whihc soon returned to the boat. Then he released a swallow, (I think it was a swallow) and she also returned so he knew there was not land near by.
Later he released a raven and when the raven did not come back to the ship he knew he would soon find land. And he did.
The Song of Songs was the inspiration of a priestess of ancient Sumeria and it was her love song to her king.
It has nothing to do with anyone called Solomon (who was a figment of the imagination of the sinister Levitical "priests") and they showed their lack of shame and sentimentality by pretending it had anything to do with any people called Judeans, Judahites, let alone Jews! At the time they said that "Moses" existed there were no such people at all. And the Judahites or Judeans were nothing more than Canaanites, for Heaven's sake.
Sentimentality always goes with coldness and hypocrasy. It is a lie of a fundamental type.
How they can be so foolish as to go sticking bits of paper in between the rocks of the Western Wall which forms part of the foundations of the
Al Aqsa mosque I do not know! That horror Barack Obama made a spectacle of himself by putting on that little skull cap on his head and sticking a piece of paper into the wall.
Apparently they write a prayer on the piece of paper. Meantime, the Western Wall they sentimentally have named "The Wailing Wall" was built by Muslims!!!
I am pretty sick of the Jews and their attitude towards us all, their idiotic outlook ways and their greed and unspeakable cruelty towards the People of Palestine - not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan and THEN there is the Ukraine, Russia, Bellarus - and all the former pieces of the USSR.
I have heard that there are still bodies stacked "like cordwood" in the hundreds of thousands in old mines - and bodies still standing on the bed of the Sea like forests.
It really is high time, as Henk has said, to repudiate the nonsense "anti-semite." it is a meaningless term, does not bother me at all, and if anything is something to be proud of.
If it means hating cruelty, callous cold sadism, rapacious greed, a destructive instinct whihc sees no beauty in the World - and creates nothing but ugliness and unhappiness and which objects to being connned by an astounding banking practise, then I am definitely "anti-semitic"!
However, I am not actually anti semitic since I am on the side of the Palestinian People and I love them for their courage and dignity.
There was no one called Joshua. The walls of Jericho were brought down by an earthquake at least a thousand years before the Levitical "priests" invented "Joshsua."
"What are these so called "Laws of God"?
They are a pack of lies from the lying pen of scribes." Jeremiah, ch. 8 v.8
Most important of all, to my mind, those sinister "priests" were the people who first broke and destroyed the Tree of LIFE - the symbol of The Mother Goddess, The Queen of Heaven, Nature. the Goddess of Fertility.
Nature. They "smashed the Asherah (meaning her symbol, the Tree) and burnt her and ground her fine to powder and threw her in the river Hebron."
That is where the denigration of the Feminine, Nature, the Feeling function of the mind, began and we are paying the price now. The Thinking functin of the mind is so overblown and out of balance with the rest that we think we can manage without Feeling. We think we can live in a Scientific Dictatorship whihc becomes less comfortable and more terrifying for Human beings with every day that passes.
God help us all if we do not change course. But, I think there will be a catastrophe or some sort of cataclysm before anything changes. We may be more or less wiped out because of this madness, this unbalanced mind.
Said it before - it is the women who have been most to blame for this insanity because they have allowed themselves to be turned into psuedo men! Parodies.
Sickening. Sick making, miserable for us all.
Socrates also was infected with this foolish new idea of what he called "logic." !!! It was nothing but a sort of toy - for boys!
And last but more important -
What DEFINES a women is a man
What DEFINED a man is a woman.
They cannot exist without each other any more than up can exist without down or right can exist with left or in can exist without out - FUNDAMENTAL. Absolutely FUNDAMENTAL and essential. One need sto cultivate an understanding of paradox so that one cannot be fooled into believing the rubbish about the androgenous etc.
Sorry
What DEFINES a man is a woman.
NOT "DEFINED" !
Some of these comments are off the wall.
Not all Jews are Zionists. Indeed, there are more Zionist Christians than Jews! And not all Israelis support the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians. Indeed, the most effective opposition comes from Israeli peace groups, as the US government blocks all other attempts from outside Israel. Those who hate Jews, to be consistent, need to hate Americans, too.
To hold the Israeli government accountable is not anti-semitic any more than holding the Bush government accountable is anti-American.
People might never do the right thing, but they are far less likely to do the right thing if they do not have good information.
Propaganda has to be confronted from wherever it comes. No country or people have the right to control the explanation of their actions.
There is no point in a blog that pours out hate and insults. Hate just leads to more violence. Persuasion and debate need to take the place of hate. If we assume that no one and no country has any good will toward others, then Marx was right that the only effective force in history is violence. The conclusion from this would be that the Israeli Zionists are following the correct path.
While I am about it - I object to the way Jews like the woman who calls herself "Madonna" mock the beautiful ideas of others.
Only a most coarse and vulgar woman would do this - and the person calling himself or herself "TheAngelGabriel" is as degraded and blind.
Isabella--odd that you mention Noah's Ark. I just read the below article. Do they know something we only suspect? Thanks for your insightful commentary.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ind...ext=va&
aid=7529
Paul Craig Roberts--Not all Canadians support he 'we stand with israel' statement of our Foreign Affairs Minister, but our taxes go to support israel. Our government's actions support israel even though so many of us don't. We are trying to do the right thing--that is to give people the information that they are denied in the msm. I know that is considered hate speech--but the truth may be hurtful but it is never hateful. The truth has to be told. We have, for too long, been indoctrinated with lies. Time to take a stand. I never condone violence for any side. But the side of those that trumpet their 'goodness' seems to be the most violent and have started every war in recent memory. When do we let the truth prevail? Evil is our master right now. Time for some truth and goodness, and the only way we can have that is for information to be spread throughout the land. Debate is not allowed if anti-semitism is the cry that rings out every time the truth is told.
George
Thanks for the links
http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/06.html
http://www.codoh.com/ newrevoices...nrillusion.html
Maybe Lexemer will have more informed view now
No wonder the zion are forever trying to silent the Truth presenters
For that holly cow the Holocaust is a money spinners to them materially and emotionally and it act as cover up for present atrocities they often commit
Isabella
I Just Love the way you stated
( someone should try to explain to them that it is shameful to go on and on about one's own suffering, and when it is at the expense of others, Human Beings, it is astonishing and disgraceful and simply disgusts us all.
I am afraid that the Jews are without grace, dignity, honor, courage or truth.
Ther is only one thing to do if you are born into a Jewish family and that is to repudiate the whole thing asap. )
Very true post
Well done Isabella
You are just one of the Million with that thought and feelings ( me one of them )
Over half a million Americans died in WWII to fight Hitler and make Germany safe for Jews. So why is it that they still need to flee their homelands from mostly Europe and Russia to steal other people's land? Why has Hitler's archives been hidden for 60 years? Why are we protecting the Nazis? All the American blood shed in WWII and trillions of dollars has not made safe the countries where Zionists were born? Where is their Nationalizm or patriotizm?
Des Griffin & Henk Ruyssenaars
The Evil Empire Revisited
Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:14AM
24.132.224.135
THE EVIL EMPIRE REVISITED
the 'Vatican' of the finance world,
a State within a State '?
where the top war profiteers of the Evil Empire's have their stables, their lair.
Who holds the money and thus the power?*
the BBC, which now stands for: Broadcasting Blair's Crap?
Because the horrible consequences have been perfectly described by Manuel Valenzuela in his essay 'Of The Evil Empire' - the Imperialist Devastation of Peoples and the Evils Done in our Names - a story which merits to be reread. -
Url.: http://
www.informationclearingho...rticle11530.htm
The impenetrable bubble we live in protects us from empathizing with billions whose lives have been made worse since the birth of the Evil Empire. We have been made ignorant to that which has been unleashed onto the world and that owes its existence to our continued lifestyle and complicity by acquiescence and failure to act. The Evil Empire runs rampant through the planet, devouring all in its path, enslaving millions and conquering and despoiling lands.
Meanwhile, inside the belly of the beast we sit, basking in extravagance and splendor, complacent in life and circumstance, unwilling to open our eyes and minds to the evils done in our name.
HOW CAN THE EVIL EMPIRE BE STOPPED
we are born and live into the socio-economic conditions that exist -
born in socalled ' west '
with most
our young lives we relish being young not questioning
our adulthood - working - raising families - wondering maybe questioning the why's but not indepth
hi-jacked media doing its part in keeping us cocooned
it is only later we have time - questioning
NOW WE SEE - THE INJUSTICE OF IT ALL - NOW WE KNOW WE HAVE BEEN DUPED !!
with each successive generation more havoc has been wreaked people and earth's land and the EVIL EMPIRE HAS EMPOWERED ITSELF YET AGAIN
it cannot go on for much longer - the cannibal capitalist beast will be stopped only because the world can soon no longer support it -
we need be made aware of it and what the consequences of its existence are
OK OK - I have it !!
IT IS NOT ONLY VIA INDEPENDENT MEDIA WE WILL BE MADE AWARE OF RESULT OF ACTIONS OF THE EVIL EMPIRE
chlldren need be taught of the STOCK MARKET !!
of ECONOMICS !! OF WHERE THE ECONOMIES DERIVE FROM
THEY NEED TO KNOW OF GLOBAL ECONOMICS - THAT IS WHAT THEY NEED KNOW
THAT NOTHING IS DERIVED FROM NOTHING
THAT EVERYTHING DERIVES FROM SOMETHING
AND THAT THAT SOMETHING IS DIRECTLY DERIVED FROM THE EVIL EMPIRE VILE ACTIONS IMPOSED ON THE BACKS OF OTHER PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE !!
teach your children - global economics teach your children that their lifestyle is derived from and has a direct impact on the lifestyle and/or death of another global inhabitant !!
i suspect and believe most people to be good - to not be selfish to want to share - teach your children global finance stock market !!
BEAT THE EVIL EMPIRE AT ITS OWN GAME FINANCE !!
It goes way back before 1949. It goes back to 1931 When German Jews, German Jewish Zionists and Nazis began to negotiate a pact that would allow German Jewish Zionists to pull their money out of German Banks and move to Palestine.
This would avoid the tax Germany had on expatriating deposits in German Banks (pulling assets out of German banks and depositing them in a non-German bank). The pact allowed German Zionist Jews (the German diaspora did not want to hijack the land belonging to Palestinians) to withdraw their money from German Banks with the provision they use it to buy/import German goods.
The self-styled Socialist-Zionist then proposed the ultimate alliance, a deal between the Zionists, the Nazis, the Fascists and the British Empire, to organise the evacuation of Jewry from Germany:
It could also be possible to establish a company, with the participation of the German State and other European, primarily British and Italian interests, which would slowly liquidate the particular properties by issuing letters of credit... [and creatingl... A guarantee fund.[(12)]
He felt his idea was particularly timely because world opinion would support a 'constructive treatment of the Jewish question in Germany'.[(13)] Knowing the German Jews would not want to put all their money in Hitler's hands, he proposed that the British should choose the fund's manager. His comrade Yitzhak Lufban wrote later that 'Arlosoroff suggested several names, and the Colonial Secretary picked one of them'.[14)] In early May 1933, Arlosoroff and the Nazis came to a preliminary understanding to extend Cohen's arrangements. He visited Berlin again in June, and returned to Tel Aviv on 14 June. Two nights later he was assassinated because of his dealings with the Nazis. The killing will be discussed below; it is sufficient to say here that it did not slow down the WZO's accommodation with the Nazis, and a ZionistNazi pact was announced by the Nazis in time for the 18th Zionist Congress in August in Prague.
(from the
Jewish Anti Nazi Boycott - Zionism in the Age of Dictators - Lenni BRENNER)
I am glad PCR wants to expose the crimes of Israel - but it started way before 1949 - it started before the Nazi-Zionist Pact - Zionism showed it's self absorbed face to our history in 1913 with Balfour.
World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. Nineteen-hundred and fourteen was the year in which World War One broke out. There are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other side by Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey. What happened?
Within two years Germany had won that war: not alone won it nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean, and Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, stood there with one week's food supply facing her -- and after that, starvation.
At that time, the French army had mutinied. They lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army was defecting. They were picking up their toys and going home, they didn't want to play war anymore, they didn't like the Czar. And the Italian army had collapsed.
Now Germany -- not a shot had been fired on the German soil. Not an enemy soldier had crossed the border into Germany. And yet, here was Germany offering England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis. That means: “Let's call the war off, and let everything be as it was before the war started.”
Well, England, in the summer of 1916 was considering that. Seriously! They had no choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was magnanimously offering them, or going on with the war and being totally defeated.
While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, who represented the Zionists from Eastern Europe, went to the British War Cabinet and -- I am going to be brief because this is a long story, but I have all the documents to prove any statement that I make if anyone here is curious, or doesn't believe what I'm saying is at all possible -- the Zionists in London went to the British war cabinet and they said: “Look here. You can yet win this war. You don't have to give up. You don't have to accept the negotiated peace offered to you now by Germany. You can win this war if the United States will come in as your ally.”
The United States was not in the war at that time. We were fresh; we were young; we were rich; we were powerful. They [Zionists] told England: “We will guarantee to bring the United States into the war as your ally, to fight with you on your side, if you will promise us Palestine after you win the war.”
In other words, they made this deal: “We will get the United States into this war as your ally. The price you must pay us is Palestine after you have won the war and defeated Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey.”
Now England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever. It's absolutely absurd that Great Britain -- that never had any connection or any interest or any right in what is known as Palestine -- should offer it as coin of the realm to pay the Zionists for bringing the United States into the war.
However, they made that promise, in October of 1916. October, nineteen hundred and sixteen. And shortly after that -- I don't know how many here remember it -- the United States, which was almost totally pro-German -- totally pro-German -- because the newspapers here were controlled by Jews, the bankers were Jews, all the media of mass communications in this country were controlled by Jews, and they were pro-German because their people, in the majority of cases came from Germany, and they wanted to see Germany lick the Czar.
(from Benjamin Freedman - A Jewish Defector Warns America)
What's becoming clearer and clearer to me is how Lean Trotsky was viewed. Some say he was a Zionist Jew - and other's claim he was an Anti-Zionist Jew. I gotz lotz to learn - but one thing is clear - this mess just didn't up and begin in 1949. To suggest that it did limits our understanding of the facts.
teach your children of how it is we ' west 'are integrally intertwined and connected to THE EVIL EMPIRE !!
how by what means we serve THE EVIL EMPIRE
and how it is we can cease to empower THE EVIL EMPIRE IN ITS DESTRUCTION OF PEOPLE ENVIRONMENT AND OURSELVES
How to break the power of AIPAC? Expose the USS Liberty massacre.
See 'Dead in the Water' and 'Loss of Liberty' videos; and read Peter Hounam's book 'Operation Cyanide'.
When enough Americans understand what happened to the 'Liberty', it will be a brave AIPAC person who tries to bribe or threaten potential or present Congressmen or Senators.
Last Updated : Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:06:22 (47 minutes ago)
http://www.presstv.ir/
detail.asp...ctionid=3510203
Gravel: Take Bush to The Hague
Former Democratic candidate Mike Gravel says President George W. Bush should be taken to The Hague for war crimes rather than being impeached.
~~~~~~~
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/...cle.asp?
ID=9038
Press TV.com Branded "Terrorist" Website
News Brief ñ July 27, 2008
The United States House of Representatives introduced a resolution Saturday that seeks to label several media outlets 'Specially Designated Global Terrorist' (SDGT) organizations.
~~~~~~~~~
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/...cle.asp?
ID=9041
The Politics of Christian Persecution
by Henry Makow Ph.D. ñ (From Oct. 5 2003, updated July 27,2 00
Henry Makow Ph.D. says Christians and Muslims are natural allies and that the "war of civilizations" is a sleazy trick by the Masonic Zionist NWO to divide and conquer More ...
DIRECT RESULT OF
EVIL EMPIRE'S RAMRODDING IN OIL PIPELINE FROM TURKMENSTAN THRU AFGHANISTAN THRU PAKISTAN
Afghans Dying From Bombs,
Starving From Hunger
Mohammed Daud Miraki, MA, MA, PhD
7-26-8
http://www.rense.com/general82/usgen.htm
"He came from school asked me, "mother what can I eat, I am hungry". I had nothing for him. I told him "son I have no food for you. I can only boil some grass for you to eat." My son shook his head and said "I am no longer hungry." He went to his room. Some minutes passed he didn't come out. I went to the room to see what he was doing. I will never forget what I saw. I saw my sweet little boy hanged himself from the sealing. He hanged himself because he could no longer remain hungry." (A Mother from Faryab province, 200
This mother is one of many enjoying the fruits of "democracy" in Afghanistan. There are thousands starving of hunger while others commit suicide. The people that commit suicide fall in two categories. The first category includes parents that commit suicide not to see the death of their own children, while the second category includes children who could not endure hunger and commit suicide.
Know you all thee, the facts in a historical cycle is QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM.
We have Historians and Philosophers giving us perspectives and interpretations to life, love, wealth, prosperity and codes of conduct.
The Zionists all over the world are warmongers murderously selfish, destructive and cunning.
America once an envy of the world had become a PARIAH nation because of the manipulative Zionists in the commercial and media world.
What will happen to the people of the world in the next 5 years, 10 years and to the future generation?
POWER CORRUPTS, ABSOLUTELE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY
The AIPAC, BILDERBERG GROUP and the DAVOS MAFIA (world economic forum) are drunk with POWER and DECEIT.
YOU CANNOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.
THE ZIONISTS KILLERS and their cheerleaders in the US and the EU have nuclear bombs, aircraft carriers, long-range bombers, nuclear submarines, advanced weaponry and a plethora of human intelligence called INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.
AGAIN,
HOW FAR AND HOW LONG can these POWER DRUNKEN animals terrorize the world?
NOT ALL THE TIME.
I am sad and surprised that PCR had quoted MARTIN GILBERT in his article.
GILBERT is a ZIONIST worshipper and is maintained by the like of AIPAC and BILDERBERG GROUP to sustain his lavish lifestyle. He is NOT a historian with penchant for academic pursuits but a CHARLATAN who had written copious trash such as the alcoholic psychopath Winston Churchill, one of the main architects for the collapse of justice and fair play in the community of nations.
@ pippi 07/28/08 9.41 -
This is all part of these evil Neocon
New World Order Luciferians' plans, to cull the human population by 85-95%.
Thanks for posting this; individual cases like this help to bring home the true horror that these monsters have unleashed on the world; unfortunately they have a lot worse in store for us all.
pippi
Don't teach all the treacheries and manipulations of finance. - Abolish finance and you abolish all the evils that finance engenders.
Lexemer--I appreciate your comments about the Holocaust, and I understand your outrage at some of the comments posted here given the suffering of your people and your family. I am NOT going to say that the Holocaust did not happen, but I would like to say a few things to you about the Holocaust.
I am quite frankly SICK of hearing over and over again the "6 million Jews" line. Hitler was NOT only against the Jews. He hated everyone! And if he could have, he and his corporate sponsors and his gestapo would have exterminated the entire world eventually!
Why don't you Jews stand up and speak about the 20 million RUSSIANS who were exterminated/died fighting Hitler and Nazism? Its a lot more than 6 million! Why don't you talk about how many Greek people died in WWII? How about how many Serbian people died at the hands of Germans and their allies the Croatian Ustachi? (My own grandfather fought the Germans!) Why don't you speak about how many French died? What about British, American, Canadian? Please, Lexemer don't spew ad nauseum the party line of "6 million Jews". Speak up and talk about all of the other people--not Jews,who died? Or does that not matter to you? Are those lives insignificant?
And you know, I am so tired of every year-- ANOTHER movie from Speilberg & Co. or other powerful Jewish director about the Jewish Holocaust. Please, call Spielberg and ask him to do a documentary about the Holocaust of Native Indian people in the US and Canada! A lot more than 6 million Native/Aboriginal people died!! And a lot more land was lost. Heck they lost and entire continent!
My friend, 10 years ago in Rawanda--1 million people--man, woman, child, infant were hacked to death with machettes in 90 days! In today's day and age! Where is the movie on that, my friend? One movie--Ghosts of Rawanda. A small low budget film is all that I have see in the last decade. If you Jewish people want to be representives for opposing brutality--where were you for the people of Rawanda? Where is Spielberg's movie on that?? Where is Spieberg's movie on the 40 million Native Indian people annhialated?
I guess it does not matter! All that matters is 6 million Jews. It is this double standard that I find so deplorable.
Lexemer, again, please believe me when I say--I support the creation of the country of Israel and I know that might earn me some flack from my fellow bloggers here, but I say to you in all honesty--why, what gives you the right to stand outraged? What makes you think that the Jewish people are the ONLY people in the history of humankind that have ever suffered or been persecuted. What gives you the right to point your finger at others here or to call someone racist or anti Semitic when your Talmud, Midrash Talpioth 225 states: "God created the other races so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts." You had a leader Menachim Begin, a head of state (awarded a Nobel Peace Prize!) who called other races "insects", "human excrement" destined to "lick the feet of the Jews." What leader speaks like this?
Lexemer, back up and stop thinking that the entire world owes you something simply because you are Jewish. Stop thinking that you are the only people ever persecuted.
Be, not only a Jewish man, but also a man of the world who stands to injustice and brutality everywhere. And that might mean starting by looking right in your backyard and at the Palestinian people and their suffering at the hands of your brethren.
Suzan | Homepage | 07.27.08 - 11:04 am | #
=================================
I don’t feel as a Palestinian that I must lose my homeland, my home, my culture, and my identity in order to create a Jewish homeland for the world Jewry
Since you support the creation of this monstrous entity for the Jews, I wonder how do you feel about creating it in your own homeland, wherever that might be??
Also, how about giving your own home and garden away to the zionists as a way of showing your good well, generosity and humanity?
Otherwise, refrain from giving others what is NOT yours to start with
.
.
Hal O'Leary - I would have shortened your comment to this, " but I would caution any and all Americans that the Zionist strategy, far from an attempt to curb anti-semitism, is to indeed meant to increase it.
Hal O'Leary | 07.25.08 - 2:21 pm | #
think about it, people! You blame the jews and israel because that is what you are supposed to be doing....
And PCR: " Americans who can no longer think for themselves and who are terrified of disapproval by their peer group are incapable of lending their voices to anyone except those who control the world of propaganda in which they live."
How very orwellian of you!
PCR and his friends find these beatings and abuses as despicable as we do......but that doesn't mean that their suffering hurts their hearts like it hurts ours and many others who read about it....it's because they believe they have a much better way to murder innocent people and create suffering - in ways that only capitalists can dream of....and succeed at.....without ever looking like the barbaric monsters that we see in those who commit physical violence.....it all ends up in the same way - a lot of people suffering and innocent people dead!
I hate people who use the suffering of others for their own political points - or to advocate hatred for another group of people....it's worse, sometimes, then those committing the barbaric acts...let's look like we care so we can get people to believe this or that by telling them about it...not to try to stop it but to use it to do something else - totally unrelated and unconcerned with putting an end to the misery the Palestinian people endure every second of every day!
Where is the fucking humanity? When is it all going to end if it's not going to stop? The New World Order is not about israel or jews....The USA is making it possible for the massacres in occupied palestine....Without the USA and all their vetos at the UN - their funds - their weapons - their support and their christian buddies speaking their lies - the Palestinian people WOULD NOT BE SUFFERING! Is Israel in control of the USA or is ISRAEL an extension of the USA?
Both lands are founded on the massacres and annihilation of the native people! Both lands are stolen - and do not belong to the people who lead the lands....Both lands are the newest countries (if that is what you call them) Israel is 60 years old - much younger then the USA but we will claim that they taught us how to torture - they are holding us captive....yet we fear them and then continue to arm them with what we fear? Our leaders are the ones who can easily be bought and sold....our leaders are participant in activities they can later be blackmailed over...What is the difference between the zionist bribing them or the corporate criminals? Is the Oil cartel just a farce? those criminals and liars and murderers and racketeers are also in the hands of some zionists? come on, people....Start taking responsibility with yourselves and your country and your fucking religions.....This is not to be blamed on Israel when we arm them, veto anything the UN tries to do, supply them with their necessities, sit back and watch them committ horrific crimes. It works to have Americans pointing to Israel - over there where they are powerless and blame to keep the focus off where they do have the power...now doesn't it? Jews blame the Americans and the Americans blame the Jews in Israel and what the hell, how about the ones at home who are Americans too! Let's give all our power away - so we don't have to do a goddamned thing - and let's feel the Palestinian people's pain but pass the buck to the people who we can't make stop! How fucking perfect.... ....they are an extension of us - not seperate from or any different .....jews and christians are still religious and religions are now helping each other out with their twisted ideas about how it needs to be before God comes back for his choosen ones....for Christ's sake (I mean that literally) Good people of the world need to get it together!
Most of the worst fucking crimes on earth were committed by someone who claims he was doing it for God...or doing the work of God.....whenever there is no justification on earth for the hatred one feels, the crimes one committs on others because of the hatred he feels - he can always default to God - because God says it should be so....it's the magic rationalization by the invisible entity - it's the grand excuse - allowing all people with hatred in their hearts believe themselves to be doing the work of the holy being and saving the world...They band together - and cause suffering on the world's innocent and peaceful....look at the KKK - their whole justification was that the bible said that white man was supreme.....some twisted fuck said that is what it meant and then all the other twisted fucks who felt that way b elieved him.....if you look for something hard enough, you will find it and if you try to make it something else - you will do it enough to lead others into the darkness from where you come...and where you will return. .it's expression of hatred...its shirking responsibility...it's hate freedom...and israel is no better or worse and no different it is the same as the USA - The Jews and the Christians are Americans - we gave birth to those who occupy palestine....
http://www.breakthematrix.com/Wo...estine-
conflict
Jews, Christians, Republicans, Democrats. Four dissimilar containers, contents of each are all the same wretched stew of ignorance laced with manipulation creating a juggernaut (irresistable force)of an exponential growth of evil to benefit the Chosen few.
Anonymous | 07.27.08 - 1:46 pm
You forgot the Muslims!
Folks, give the hate a rest, lay down your weapons and watch this beautiful video:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/
tal...of_insight.html
Also, if you have not seen it a great movie called
"INTO THE WILD" Directed by Sean Penn.
Its the true story of a young man who after graduating from college rejects his middle class upbringing by burning all his money, social security card, and credit cards. He gives his life savings to a charity and hits the road with only a backpack. Great movie.
A quote from "Into the Wild":
"If we admit that human life can be ruled by reason, The possibility of LIFE is destroyed.
...
"I have read your commnents for years Angel Gabriel, and God knows that if there was EVER any intelligent discussion or thought, it NEVER EVER came from you.
My turn to yawn and say...what did I tell you ladies and gentlemen: Nothing to contribute but belligerence. Ever. And then Mr phD goes on to give everyone a collective F-You.
Hard to understand how someone with an education is so lacking in gray matter and self-discipline...Perhaps you need to check the expiry date on that Cracker Jack box you pulled that degree out of. Yawn.
Suzan | Homepage | 07.26.08 - 2:33 pm "
Congratulations Susan, you are the 1,000,000,000th "Hate Speaker" to tell me how much they hate me. AND as a bonus you are the last person on this " White Supremicist - Hate Site" to get the distinction of "Jr. Grand Wizard". Please just fill in your details on the back of my "Cracker Jack Box", and return in the postage paid envelope you will find stuffed up your arse, where your head is! You have a long way to go to get to "atheo" status, but you're doing well and should definitely be a memeber on the list of American or "Wannabe" American Patriotic "Hate Speaker's / finger pointer's" to wit;
Refirex
Raymond /anonymous 23
Richard
Anonymous – you know who you are-which anonymous you are!
Observer
Atheo
Henk Ruyssenaars
Nahida
Isabella
Charlie Boy
Veronica
Tacitus
Pippi
Cadavre
Hamish Brown
Informer
Jerry Gates
Tom Posten
Cracker
Remember Rabbi Leibowitz
38
Blizzard
Larry Craig
Guerrero
Continued.......
xzp | 07.26.08 - 11:33 am | #
cont'd
Part II:
continued:
" The Dark side list"
Tiddlywinks
Emmanuel
Eileen Fleming
Ricardo Junios Stanton
Clean Kiwi
Paulo
Another Old US Vet
Cat
Kats
Darkbeaver
Doubtom
GO
Lowry
Harvey
Ol’ Joe
PVC
Ironhead
Nic
Azkin13
Praedor Atrebates
Susan
Marilyn
DeadGI
Tom Paine
John B
QodsPiece
Malcom Martin
GeeGee, Italy
republicanSScareme
Abdulla syed salamah ali mahdi h
Bitin Dawg
Mirek
Et al – many others whose names I can’t remember
My apologies if I excluded anyone else, these were the names that came to mind, and if I misspelled anyone’s name – I apologize.
cheers and peace
xzp
Good on ya all for your valiant effort to discredit my CONSISTENT point that YOU are the one to blame for all the things YOU feel are happening to YOU at the hands of someone else - Your Scapegoat's, your subsidized Client State's, YOUR Partner's in the Alliance of the WILLING, who continue your bidding to be the most powerful and righteous country on earth no matter how manty of US "easily exploitable and expendable one's you need to murder to prove it - in your Christian GOD'S name of course!!!!!!!, and if the price for our lives is cheap enough to fit the payscale you set with the Pentagon and your Congress.
You win the "Not Me" Medle of the week Susan! Please hang it around your neck with pride. Don't mind the smell of the dead bodies that went into pressing it in Gold Bling so you could easily relate to it. You can sell it next week if you like, knowing that nothing is as sacred as Cash to your type of film that sits on top of a polluted pond in Kansas, Texas, or Wyoming where you must live (in christ - of course).
xzp, I must dispute a few of the names on your list however - Please feel free to remove-
Nahida
Jerry Gates
Dark Beaver
Clean Kiwi
Ricardo Junios Stanton(?)
as these folks don't fit into the white sheets you other "faithful" wear in your little group. Otherwise, this list was quite well done I thought - good job xzp! I couldn't have done better myself in assembling a "soiled laundry list" like yours! I especially liked this one -
"Anonymous – you know who you are-which anonymous you are!" Now that showed magnificent creativity in sorting the REAL "anonymous" from the fake one!!!!! WOW - brilliant!
Since we're all airing our feelings openly here. I would like to take the opportunity to remind you all of why I am here keeping an eye on ICH. Arc-Angel's are tasked with security measures, and being the head honcho in the "AA" department, I get the job of keeping you dickweeds honest, and cognizant of your actions while you reside here on earth. (It's a thankless job, but someone has to do it!)
I've been here since the meltdown of Truthout - The Marc Ash debacle, and the meltdown of ICH.EU. I have watched while this site has escalated from a progressive meeting forum of many different world views - into the current "Severe" hate site that it is today. This site has gone from intelligent people offering helpfull solutions and discourse on vital humanitarian issues - to a hate, and denial forum that is intent on swaying opinion away from any acknowledged acceptance of the truth behind the compalcency of the predominantly "White - Old Empires" attempts to rape pillage and burn their "WAY" into the "lesser privledged" Countries and Continent's resources in order to carry on with the FORCED acceptance of YOUR - NWO religious, ideological, and greed driven madness you all kindly refer to as "Free Market Capitalism".
Funny, that when I expose you to the concept of how you finger point all the blame away for this obvious maneuver - I am somehow laminated as a Zionist, or a Jew Lover, or The Devil Gabriel, or whatever other choice vile name pops into your twisted collective minds to aim your underlying guilt and denial on to remove your own reflections.
The bottom line is this - I will NEVER let you rest until you come to your senses (which is doutful I admit) and move away from your blame game and come back to the reality of the total mess you are making of the human race, and the planet we all have to share over the short period of lifespan we have here together.
The "I got mine, and fuck you" attitude that you seem to nurture like a "user's guide to the universe" is beyond belief, and until you change your course - I'm gonna follow you and hound you to your grave, as long as my fingers can type on my keyboard.
I am not bothered at all by your open and unshameful comments, and I won't be distracted from my task, as I see it of holding a mirror up in front of your disgusting faces so you can make eye contact with the liar's in the looking back at you. You pitiful creatures.
I will refer you to an excellent comment above that was made by someone I view as a salvageable soul in your midst, Lizbitchwitch, who suggest that you look no further than your own backyards to see where the hell on earth eminates, and start taking responsiblility for yourself to fix it.
Frankly I'm tired of my job as a heat sync for the hate crowd, but I guess I need to step up the pace a little on you fluttering fuckwits and ask that those that KNOW what I'm talking about continue to join in to fight off the hatred that is engulfing us all some we can pursue some better quality of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that is our human right! And to all a good night! Except Susan - who needs to sit on a water tower to cool her inner hatred.
To Nahida, Yolanda, Turtle, Evelyn Burck, G, Randy Prim, JF Berg, Liz, Sirius99, the late "Wally Parker", Brewerstroupe, Cruxpuppy, NAA, Clean Kiwi, Ereden of Aeoteroa, Grey Raven and others who have a vision of a better world and peace without hatred and hegemony - keep the faith brothers and sister's - there will someday be a brighter side of the penny to look forward to!
Ka Kite Ano
Israel steps up anti-Iran lobby in US
Sun, 27 Jul 2008
Senior Israeli officials are slated to hold strategic talks with the United States on tactics likely to resolve Iran's nuclear standoff.
According to the Israeli public radio, during his three-day visit, Defense Minister Ehud Barak is expected to hold talks with US officials on Iran's nuclear program and enhancing the capabilities of Israeli armed forces.
Barak is to meet with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, senior military officials, members of Congress, and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.
Former Israeli defense minister Shaul Mofaz, believed to be campaigning to succeed Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, is also scheduled to visit the US on Wednesday...
http://www.presstv.ir/
detail.asp...ctionid=3510203
Angel Gabriel- the last word i | 07.27.08 - 3:33 pm | #
don't flatter yourself !! it isn't YOU personally - it is you as part n parcel of zionist jews - get it ?? part n parcel of what it is zionist jews have done in the past and part n parcel of what it is they inflict on earth TODAY !!
ANTI-SEMITIC ?? YOU CAN BESTOW UPON IT ANY NAME YOU WISH - who cares the name !! IT IS RIGHT FROM WRONG !! JUSTICE OR INJUSTICE - zionist ashkenazi jew neocons are wrong !!
Paul Craig Roberts cites the writings of a brave Christian leader in his,"Are You Ready To Face The Facts About Israel", and underscores the beauty and powr of the truth in reviving souls from their stuporous obiesance to lies told for the sake of sedition.
Sedition is what newcomers do in lands they covet; Seditionists corrupt the unity of inhabitants, get thenm to fight against one another, disrupt daily life and undo any movement at solidarity which bvuilds hope for self governance, We see aparthied sedition in Palestine, perpetrated by Israel and funded by their apologists in the US Christian Right and the neocon elements in both the GOP and democratic party.
Just as the Pentagons hides their resistance to crop eradication in Afghanistan, the Israeli firsters in the US are on constant vigil to keep the US addicted to their brand of exceptioalist thinking, which is an addiction, like heroin, that is part of the full spectrum dominance Israel exercises against their enemies, both in the pysical sense and the psychological theatres of war for the hearts and minds of Christians in the USA,
Reverand ARE has looked deeply into the facts and found himself to be complicit in these crimes against the Palestinians and takes the bold steps of bringing his flock from the brink of serving the devil to serve God and call out the crimes of Israel in his book,co -authored with Marc Ellis entitled "Beyond Occupation".
Thank you revereand Are you are a great man empowered by God to see and tell the truth, even if it hurts, which Christ has told us it would.
Paul Criag Roberts has his head on straight in illuminating the courage it takes to stand up for the truth, They say freedom isn't free, well, neither is the truth, it bares a cost which can include you life's work, your carreer, your family and the love of neighbors. The Cost of truth is painfull but it leads to another cost and actually defrays it considerably ;the cost of freedom. The truth will set you free was spoken to the masses as a gift to them in unseating injustice and false religions not based in the Holy word of God.
Truth will set us free, but both bare a cost which Jesus asks his followers to bare gladly as their sacrifice to God, as Christ's was ,a holy and unselfish testament to your faith that if you do for God , God's work gets done and we all have a better world to live in, This is universal love, shareing, charity and kindness all rolled into one faithful sacrifice of your time, thoughts, offerings of truth and kindness to others which pays forward your debts to God and humankind.
Catching up by paying forward in telling the truth to power is action, which speaks volumes about you. Every human life can participate in holy truth, love, compassion based goodness and charity which is given in earnest love and respect for their individual rights of others as if they were our own rights.
If a youth in Palestine is abused , you should feel thier suffering and respond as if your child was beaten, This is truthfully the love we all yearn for, unconditonal and sincere without borders or bias, just true love for any soul which is maligned by the forces of deception and cunning which wear a face of holiness, but whose garments are stained by flase witness.
If then, as Christian witnesses we act on our love and spread the gospels of truth to others as an outpouring of our love, are we not vindicated of our sins by this repentence as is the Reverand Are? Of course we are, we folowed the narrow path of repentence, grief and salvation through forgiveness which clears our hearts of guilt and issues our freedom based on our understanding of the truth, which sets us free.
Bondage to God's work is an easy burden, not comparable to the insidious addictions to lies, the acceptance of half truths and our complicity in supporting the occupation of Palestine by an Israeli government that is becoming a symbol of evil to the civilised world. Can we, as believers in Christ's bountiful forgiveness and salvation from sin, be without back up from our faith in Christ and not just our faith , but belief in a real Christ with real love and real duties to us and to God. We are empowered by humility enough to admit a wrong course, then divert with holy support to the right and narrow path to redemtion through the gift of Christ's absolution of our sins.
If Israel were a faithfull nation, God would have their back, if not their back is ungaurded and we are empowered to overturn their lies and support the ones in Israel who want truth to free them from the grips of lies as it has freed us and empowered us with it's light, love and steadfast power over lies.
God sees all of the subtleties of our lives and is intimate with us as if we were a part of one big organism which got sick and was diagnosed with a certain definable malady, that when treated, made the
patient whole by healing the effected area of disease, without comprimising the health of the greater body in the process, This is the concept of love your enemies , in a nutshell, but still with it's original power and even more so with more souls observing it's resonance among the palnet's many inhabitants.
If you are a religious person or a mystic, you know that our planet is in some sort of diseased state. We are part and parcel of a whole of humanity and indebted to the whole to act when we see trouble not hide the trouble for others to discover when it is perhaps too late to treat effectively without comprimising theover all health of the body of believers.
It is crucial that American Christians be witness to the truth. Men of Reverand ARE's stature and promise answer a calling of Christ to get to the truth and speak it , as Christ did, without reservation or fear. If you are persecuted, we have scripture to console us; Blessed are those who are persecuted for my sake, they will be rewarded. Trust this and know that the reward is to do what your Christian heart desires the most, to serve righteously without malice toward others, which waters down the messages of love as healer and compassion as the maker of enemies into friends.
jerrygates,SHALOM ALEHEM!!
" pippi | 07.27.08 - 4:13 pm "
Leave your details with my Secretary Pippi, and we'll send you a roll of toilet paper to clean yourself up after whatever the hell you were trying to express with your "loose run off at the mouth" - you just shat above.
You are certainly one to talk about "flattering" oneself with the HATE diatribes you are notorious for! You certainly won't be remembered for your humanist compassion or attempts to bring peace and understanding to this forum! Rather remembered for the crass little cockroach finger pointer you are.
Flutter flutter
"jerrygates,SHALOM ALEHEM!!
Anonymous | 07.27.08 - 4:43 pm |
Igor, you are living proof that inter-breeding is occurring between cockroaches and maggot's! Turn yourself in for scientic research please! Or better yet, crawl under the wheels of a bus.
Hi Gab,
good to see you again. I don't hang round here much these days. It's worthy of note that we can wear it as a mark of pride that we have been called 'jewnazi' or whatever the current hateword is these days. it means you probably can see both sides. But fight thee not with monsters my friend, lest thee become one. Those here who advocate hatred on the basis of social or national membership are expressing the same as they condemn. They are the same as they hate, just in a different T-shirt - they hate what they are. From your posts in the past, you are above that. You lower yourself my friend.
xzp
I wish you did not post this list. Whether in good intent, which it looks like you are listing those that you feel are contributing helpful information, I really do not like being on a list of any kind. For one thing I am not militant against jewish people at all. I do think there is a zionist movement, however, I believe the zionists are only part of the whole picture. Non-zionist groups, such as the christian segment of neo-cons is only one such group. Also, when in the past I have referenced zionists its usually those within the banking industry and the Israeli Government's actions, Mossad and IDF.
TOM FEELEY
I kindly request that xzp's list be removed. Free speech is great, but I personally do not like being on any type of list that profiles me a certain way. The government is already creeping into our lives too much. Any Aipac character can come in and read this hateful thread, see the list, and make issue. To me this is a security issue more than anything, especially since it is an opinion. Thanks
Paul Craig Roberts | 07.27.08 - 7:18 am | #
I wish I would have seen that comment before I posted my post. You may not be so bad after all - maybe the Hoover Institute didn't permanently damage your soul.....sorry about the comment above. I just can't help but doubt people with a history like yours.
Hi Dylan,
Long time! Glad to know your still out there - wherever you are hangin these days I'm sure you continue to call it like you see it. Thanks for your kind words. I'll keep it in the foremost of my mind.
Peace,
AG
Angel Gabriel—the last word, et. al---There is no question about the fact that the Bush/Cheney neocon cabal led United States government is engaged in the slaughter of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan and making moves to follow-up with a similar slaughter in Iran or Pakistan. The slaughter of the one million civilians in Iraq has been successful in garnering huge profits for the United States based oil, gas and finance conglomerates and is now finalizing the final deals that will make these conglomerates the essential owners of the Iraqi natural resources. That has been the greasy underbelly of the United States invasion and occupation of these countries.
At the same time the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government has been on a genocidal, messianic mission to expand the territory allocated to it by the consensus of people of the world through the United Nations to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. They have so far succeeded in absorbing huge areas of the Palestine beyond the internationally recognized border for Israel as well as occupying parts of Syria and Lebanon.
The United States thrust for hegemony over the oil and gas reserves of the Middle East and the Caspian Sea for the United States based international oil, gas and finance conglomerates has created a symbiotic relationship with Israel where each country pursues its separate strategic objectives in concert against the common targets. The close strategic planning of the United States and Israel evidenced both in the political pronouncements and the concerted activities---Israel advancing its strategic territorial plans and the United States its thrust for hegemony—makes it possible to assert that one or the other are principally responsible for the slaughter of innocents that is proceeding unabated in the area. The fact of the matter is that these separate but commonly grounded strategic objectives of Israel and the United States has created a symbiotic relationship that serves each of their objectives.
There are those that maintain that when the rubber hits the road of United States interests, the Israelis will suffer the consequences of the Shah of Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Noriega in Panama, Marcos in the Philippines, etc., etc. None of these others, however, had the political and economic clout in the United States that the collaboration of highly, well organized Jewish Zionists and Christian Zionists in the United States provides.
So, Angel Gabriel’s assertions that assert the sole culpability of the United States for the slaughter of innocents in the Middle East ignore this symbiotic relationship and provides a subtle but obvious defense of Israeli participation in the slaughter by exonerating its culpability.
Bush and Cheney are using blackmail to prevent the impeachment process:
http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=St...h?
v=StUbUgEe1To
Write, write and write; tell them to call their bluff. Everyone knows invading Iran would be the most stupid mistake: FOR EVERYONE, as this could start a nuclear button pushing party. But I think its all a big bluff meant to keep the distraction away from Iraq and Afghanistan, so they can continue to plunder.
There are two criminals that if are impeached and taken to trial will make many of the accomplises stop in their tracks: George Bush and Dick Cheney. The upcoming election could be hijacked otherwise. If not we get more of the same from obama or mcCain.
If they are not impeached we need people like Paul Craig Roberts and at least 5 other known individuals to lead a peaceful march on the White house and DEMAND that they be handed over for crimes against Humanity.
The Hague? World Court? Would be great, but mostly these institutions are just well maintained fortresses with nice little web sites that do nothing. If they go after anyone its the "small fry".
The economy will collapse, when the government can no longer sell its Debt. This could be anytime. But, Bush has made it clear to the IMF that their investigation into the financial institutions in the U.S. will not be published until AFTER he leaves office. This means that they are doing everything they can to make sure this collapse of the dollar does not happen until George Fucking Bush is out of office.
Two things:
We need the collapse; when the middle class learns their 401k's are dust, they will finally know that the U.S. of A. is no longer the BiG Cheese they thought it was. People will HAVE TO DEMAND that foreign investments into places like Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc and "WARS" such as Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing but bread and butter for ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE ONLY...THE RICH, and maybe, just maybe people will STOP long enough in their busy-do-nothing-but-supporting-the-system PEON pathetic lives to understand that murdering and "collateral damage" are actuall BAD things to do.
Second: George Bush and Dick Cheney HAVE TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT for the numerous crimes and Dictatorial Acts and Executive orders they have Passed.
If they aren't then we will continue to get the same from other leaders. The Big-Three heads of state in Europe; Brown, Merkel, and SkarCozy have been emboldened by George F Bush's actions. The bush/cheney team have set a new precedence in leadership....IF THAT IS WHAT WE WANT THEN DO NOTHING.
Congress approval rating is at 9%.
Bush has a 28% approval rating.
This shows that the majority of people in the U.S. do not support the Government, whether congressional or executive.
The 28% for Bush is obviously an indication that Christian-Right is still a considerable influence on our government as the Fundies are about 20% of the entire population.
Hitler got into office with only a 30% approval.
The main group in the U.S. to fearful of, for the extraordinary influence is the Christian-Right. Without them, there would be no Bush.
The FUNDIES will support Bush until the end. If Absolute evidence is given to them, they will still support him.
The 9% approval rating in Congress, would also be Bush's rating if it were not for the Christian Right.
Thats just the facts and reality folks.
---> Paul Craig Roberts 07.27.08 - 7:18 am
I appreciate your comment which shows your interest in what your readers might have to say regarding your article. My long post below is more a lamentation towards some long held generic beliefs that I think we should at least entertain the thought of challenging them.
According to m.Webster 'hate' is defined as:
"intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury"
It is an expression of an emotion created by a reason. That reason might be rational and justifiable or irrational and unjustifiable. Hate by itself does not come with an indisputable character that can be remorselessly shot down and felt proud about it. This act by itself can be characterized as irrational hostility. It is the reason behind the hate that matters and decides the nature of it, and has to be dealt with, not the hatred itself.
Using "hate" as a target has become a tool in the hands of those who want to win a debate without a bout, because they know hate will not speak up and defend itself, while the person who, purposely or not, shows it can dump his reasons on the table that might be tough to deal with.
There is little difference between (s)words 'hateful', 'antisemitism', 'judeophobia', hysteria, etc. which are designed by khazar psychologists and disseminated thru their media and websites. They serve to score unfair points by ill projecting opponents and hopefully circumventing a debate. Unfortunately many have fallen for them and use these (s)words not quite knowing who they are fighting for.
"Persuasion and debate need to take the place of hate." So let's debate, not characterize the debater.
-There are five million khazars in the US and their rabbis collect hundreds of millions of dollars a year thru kosher tax extortion of 97% nonjudaic amercians. Not a finger is raised, not a squeak is made by this five millions to show they care about the reputation of their religion. Are they all zionists? Of course not. Then why?
-More than 90% of abortion clinics in the US is owned and/or operated by this community, which brings them $4 billion annually. 100% of leaders who created pro-choice movement to protect this industry are khazars. Are they all zionists? Of course not. Is it coincidence? Of course not. Then what is it?
-They are the primary founders, owners, and operators of porno industry. Is that because they are zionists? I don't think they can tell if zionism is a new flat screen HDtv by Zenith or an expensive dog food brand. Then what gives? The founders and leaders of the largest christian polygamy (warren jeffs and his father) in us history turn out to be khazars (never mind the last pope!). Is that coincidence? If it was an isolated case, I would have said maybe. They disproportionately show higher level of incestial incidents. They disproportionately occupy higher percentage of serial murderers in the western countries.
-A country plunging into a war witnesses their judaic community to be the first to pack and leave. Because they are zionists? Or because they don't consider that it is 'their' problem, even if they have lived there for centuries or millenia? But armenians in the same country even volunteer to be drafted to defend their 'adopted' country. What gives?
-Who has bought big printing houses and caused a shortage of christmas cards which read 'merry christmas' and not 'happy holidays'? Who are the people suing municipalities around the country to pull down large crosses over the hills and cemeteries arguing that it insults nonchristians? Zionists? No, but they all happen to be khazars.
-Five victims and five relatives and now more claimants have teamed up to sue iran for their support of hamas responsible for 1997 bomb blast in jerusalem. They are asking for some $3.5 billion compensation that should be raised by selling off thousands of clay artifacts on loan to university of chicago oriental institute from iran. The artifacts were discovered by an archaeologist team from university of chicago in 1933 in persepolis, shiraz, southern iran, which belongs to the achaemenian period in 6th c. bc. Oriental institute has been deciphering the cuneiform inscriptions since 1937 and now are shivering by this legal assault. The assault has spread to University of Michigan museums and the Detroit Institute of Arts, Harvard University art museums, and the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. Are these people zionists who can only see the price not the value of things? I don't think so.
Compiling more cases to the list portrays clearly a mentality which operates under a different set of value system from that most of human civilizations are familiar with. Instead of denying it we should "debate" and analyze it. We just need to be open minded, fair, and principled.
We never call a doctor hateful, when he is baffled by an abnormality and is curiously diagnosing the conditions of an ailing patient. Our highly praised tenets and dicta must represent the realities on the ground. We cannot tinker or overlook the facts on the ground in order to protect and safeguard our beloved and addicted beliefs. If they need to be revisited and reshaped, we need to find courage to do that.
TOM FEELEY
One just has to take a good look at Rense.com and many other forums, to see how zionism is exposed TOTALLY and here comes anonymous | 07.27.08 - 5:47 pm tentatively subtly using his ban freedom of speech tactics. ICH has been an inspiration to many WHO CANNOT GET THE REAL TRUTH OUT OPENLY IN THE CONTROLLED MEDIA with the types of dingbats such as Angel GabrielWITCH et al and his followers, who come here specifically to smear people, who offer a different than the heil-hitler forceful compliance. One doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to notice this.
The Anonymous's the Dylans, and the Bats out of hell angels, come out here to force their way and BLAME us as being nazis and have affiliations to right wing groups. Simply because they cannot FACE THE TRUTH as to who pulls their doodles or with a clear intent to disrupt themselves. Eventually, I sadly fear that mob justice will exact revenge for the likes of Dylan, anonymouse's and the ding bats angels, simply because of the defence of the 'chosen ones' criminal mentality, thus sweeping the truth under the carpet.
Tom, I did try writing on Israeli sites to offer a peaceful solution to this ME crisis, only to be hurled abuses that would make a priest blush. And here these parasites come over here with half truths to veer us in a quagmire of putting the blame on some fictitious array of people simply to confuse the issues at hand, that clearly shows the bully coming out of them for people to see it their way or the highway to fit their warped psychopathic mind. That to me, in particular, is treasonous as the truth is OUT there for all to see who is really RESPONSIBLE for this mayhem, and this is done on PURPOSE to veer us away from the truth of seeing the FACTS which has taken most people a decade or so to fathom out the criminal mystery. It seems that the childish logic that they pursue, as if the zionists are going to admit to their crimes, and this to me what they offer by ridiculing others which is typical of the makeup of psychopaths in denial.
Furthermore, the people here have no objection for the likes of these demented souls to post their vitriol subtle hatred themselves, where we are not in fear and there is also THIS PRECIOUS choice whether to ignore it or take it aboard, not like hitlerish anonymous who state that it should be banned altogether...like a freudian slip being made here...ban and imprison anyone who discuss the holocaust...I dont know if you can see a pattern developing here sir. These very people dont wish the truth to unfold so that the whole world can see and judge for themselves.
But when YOU draw the line as to who can be barred and exposed, then surely freedom of speech and clearly expressing one's feeling whether it be right or wrong to be proven by the majority falls right into the lion's den of right wing jewish fascism which has been exposed, but people dont wish to see this due to the programmed brainwashing by the his master's voice the controlled MEDIA.
Moreover, if an honest jew exposes his criminal colleagues here or elsewhere, he or she is either bombarded with hatred, name calling, such as self hating jews etc etc and not only that he is either murdered by his own colleagues or kicked out of any jobs he has. This vital piece of evidence of the power to oust politicians or anyone who dare criticise these criminals sir, which everybody of the brain dead and washed ilk of the Devilish Angels who strive to live in this nightmarish denial....
But if we expose the truth of zionism and who really is behind the criminalities, in come the mobsters and mafioso to clamp down and hurl abuses. The TACTICS are no different to what I just mentioned. It is reading in between the lines of these demented sickos that one can draw a conclusion, sir.
All along the discussions has been that there are good and bad people, and it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that the minority of jewish people are good, not the other way around, where it is asserted that the majority are good and the minority are bad.
Xzp and many others have gone through with a fine needle like precision to expose the shams not only of the holocaust, but also how powerful the zionist jews (incld the christian zionists too) control our way of abnormal life, where WE come to protest with all the viable proof at hand, where the so called open MEDIA wouldnt dare print nor accept the challenge of the people who are now demanding that the truth be told.
Just by my latter statement there holds the proof that the zionist jewish media has total control, with the likes of the previous owner of so many media outlets Rupert Murdock, who gags not only the truth, but fires anyone who dares to print what they see in reality....therefore sir, that to me is openly defiant to the wishes of the people.
Its the cockroaches that are coming out to vent out their psychopathic emotions and deter people from expressing their feelings. Whether they be right or wrong, ICH should in my eyes be a venue for all to take part in, rather than curbing or insulting others who have a different point of view...Sir finally, isnt it fair to discuss this openly rather than boycotting, supppressing feelings that have been buried or should i state conned or hypnotised for ions.
I feel that the backlash of all those misdeeds in the past will finally be exploded like a balloon with the suppression of these emotions. And sir, we have seen this in history. The likes of Devils masquerading as Vampirish Angels, the hitler-like-Dylans who are in total denial and have a subtle undercurrent of hate...Ironic isnt it that they cannot face their own demons, and place them onto others when challenged ?
Sir, I wish you would throw way any suggestions of barring anyone who brings in the truth for ALL people to see, please reconsider that freedom of expression should ALWAYS be alive, and not to be dictated by the likes of foxes dressed up like lambs to veer us away from putting these criminals in the HAGUE to face the long awaited JUSTICE..
Richard,
I actually agreed with the anonymous to have the list removed. They had a good reason I feel. Censorship is a bad thing, but sometimes,especially on a site like this, security of the participants should be heeded. But think about this: The U.S.A. of which I live, is currently under a dictator. This man with an IQ of 96 has done more harm than any "terrorist" could. Think about it:
There ARE DETENTION centers here and more were contracted to be built last winter by Halliburton. There is now FISA...which just legalized their illegal behavior of spying. The Patriot Act, Military Commissions act, soon-to-be Violent Radicalization and Homeland terrorism Acts Plus numerous executive orders; Have all paved the way for many residing in this country to be rounded up and locked away with no access to a lawyer due to the scratching of Habeas Corpus. Not to mention the Posse Comatatus act of 1858 has been abolished, which prevented the military from coming into civilian populations armed and ready to shoot.
The Detention centers include one up in Okanagan, not too far from me. The SeaTac airport in Seattle is a "holding center", and Sand Point on the shores of Lake Washington is another detention site. AND this is a BLUE STATE!!!!!
On mornings that I don't work I go out in my backyard and ALWAYS see the streak lines of numerous military jets. At work there are two Snitch-bitches that are watching me due to my feelings on George Fucking Bush.One has a husband in law enforcement....these are Christian Right wing ignorants that know nothing and do not want to know anything; but they hate people like me because I am the epitome of the Truth staring them straight in their faces.
Local police forces are being indoctrinated and brainwashed into thinking that peace activists are THE ENEMY.
Our Dictator Bush is threatening to bomb Iran into oblivion if the threats of Impeachment are carried out.
The TENTIONS ARE BUILDING....One wrong move and the whole thing is going to blow sky high.
So, considering what I just said, I TOO do not want to be on any lists. It would be easy for someone to print this out, investigate the site and actually could find these people.
As is, My philosophies are actually moving away from the average ICHer. I believe in a zionist political movement that is influencing AND is influenced by other groups of right wingers. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ANY FORM OF VIOLENCE WILL WORK. Only the innocent usually die in these outbursts. There are subtle to NOT SO subtle hints towards violently hurting any Jew. Also, alot of violent subtleties to kill ANY USAcan.
I don't think Anonymous was trying to be rude, just did not like the idea of being on a list.
I am in Canada next week! Maybe I am on a list and will not be back....
...I've left enough emails and letters to Bush, congress people, and to Aipac itself all with my name address and phone. So, it is a possibility to be on a list, especially for what I wrote about.
But make no mistake, Bush and Cheney are the FIRST who should be held to account...then others will follow.
Well said Richard. These trolls have attempted to achieve chaos through flaming and disruption. Truth is their enemy. Supression of information their aim. We have seen them even resort t posting porn etc...
During the same period, several pro-Palestinian sites were being hacked and some blogs were closed by google, purportedly having had complaints as being spammers.
Lindsey Williams And What's to Come
http://
theinternationalforecaste...ls_Of_Liquidity
Vast unexploited oil reserves? An economic threat from too much oil? Dark pools of liquidity, threats of hyperinflation from unsound economy and Fed practices, remembering the lessons from The Great Depression, reactionary measures to protect the dollar, An examination of a crisis scenario.
Kats says "Compiling more cases to the list portrays clearly a mentality which operates under a different set of value system from that most of human civilizations are familiar with."
The thing is, kats, the majority of humanity has gone along with all of it!! They, for the most part, love it. If they did not, they would not participate and collude.
The answer lies in getting off the grid as much as possible, working in your communities for sustainable living.
The material world is basically just an imitation. Its design is transient. 100 years from now, the same crap will be going on, just different players.
I hardly think that Hate was created by any one group of people. Its an emotion just like love.
The only way out, is by not buying into the system in the first place.
Humanity is a Unit, sorry to inform you.
The globalists are potentially doing us all a huge favor...because the future will actually be a more unified system.
Nothing is by accident. As one discovers the Matrix we all live in, the only conclusion for an enlightened mind is that there really are NO victims.
In many New Growth forests, The more agressive plants and trees flourish in the beginning (kind of paving the way). But as the forest ages it gives way to more permanent and sustaining varieties of plants and trees that.
the above article is also posted on
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/...cle.asp?
ID=9042
above Paper Sold To Pools of Liquidity
The International Forecaster ñ July 28, 2008
WHAT'S TO COME !!
The oil executive, who Mr. Williams had known for years, gave Mr. Williams some startling revelations which he could safely reveal to the general public. As you know, the Illuminati are arrogant enough to reveal some of their plans because they believe there is nothing we can do about it.
Basically, Mr. Williams was told that over the next twelve months, from mid-2008 to mid-2009, (1) news of super giant oil fields, ready to produce, would be announced for two locations, in the Northern Slopes of Russia and in Indonesia, which oil fields would together contain more oil reserves than the entire Middle East; (2) that this news would drive oil prices down to $50/barrel; (3) that OPEC countries, especially in the Middle East, would be bankrupted by this price decrease; (4) that this would cause the financing of our foreign trade and current account deficits through purchases of treasury paper by foreign nations with their surplus oil profits to collapse, leading to the collapse of the dollar; (5) that the collapse of the dollar would cause unprecedented financial strife and turmoil in the US, and that it would take many years for the US to recover from this financial debacle; (6) that they (big oil) support John McCain for President; and (7) that US domestic oil reserves would never be tapped, and that any legislation which might allow domestic reserves to be tapped would not be allowed to pass, leaving the US dependent on foreign oil forever.
"So, Angel Gabriel’s assertions that assert the sole culpability of the United States for the slaughter of innocents in the Middle East ignore this symbiotic relationship and provides a subtle but obvious defense of Israeli participation in the slaughter by exonerating its culpability."
William C. Carlotti |
William, you got to this point and spat the dummy in trying to peg me as an Israeli apologist, after pretty much accurately summing up the point I made in my previous post. How American of you!
Yes, Bush and Co. have completely flipped this world on it's back for American and Coalition Partner greed and hegemony. BUT - the bottom line here is that YOU have let this happen unimpeded so as to protect your cushy little in God we trust life style's.
I revile Israel and Zionism and Neoconservatism and ALL fucking ISM's except ONE - Humanitarianism, of which you and the listee's above have no concept of.
I view the American People as equally complicit with Israel for the attrocities committed in their interests against those who pose NO threat to them, other than witholding their indigenous belief's and National resource treasures from exploitation and persecution. If you can't see that, I'm sorry.
Might I suggest that "Angel Gabriels assertions that assert" is a poor choice in intelligible use of the English language. If the English language is not your first language, it's excusable, otherwise, you might consider a night class in communication 101 or a more fitting "remedial" grammar course, because you came off as a total nit-wit. In reading your previous posts I thought there might be some hope for you - now, I'm not so sure(?)
anonymous | 07.27.08 - 5:47 pm |
"TOM FEELEY
I kindly request that xzp's list be removed. Free speech is great, but I personally do not like being on any type of list that profiles me a certain way. The government is already creeping into our lives too much. Any Aipac character can come in and read this hateful thread, see the list, and make issue. To me this is a security issue more than anything, especially since it is an opinion. Thanks"
Dear anonymous;
If it makes you feel any better and gives you peace of mind, then perhaps it's better that this list be removed - it certainly wasn't my objective to draw unnecessary attention to any of the posters on this forum. Quite the opposite. I'm a strong enough person with a strong enough ego to admit that I was wrong to post the list in the first place.
Mostly, I wanted to convey to raymond/anonymous 23 (he's a great contributor to this forum by the way) that I am not, in fact, one of the most well informed on this forum, actually far from it. Although I've been researching the issues of Jewish-Zionist-Israeli crime network for approx. 3 years now, there are many others on this forum that have a great cognitive grasp on the concepts and issues we face with Jewish-Zionist-Israeli occupation occurring here in the U.S. and the entire world. I do consider myself in an ongoing learning process regarding all these issues of Jews-Zionists-Israelis and their occupation of the U.S., wars they instigate which kill millions of innocent people, their illegal ownership of our country's banking system, that they are in fact a huge criminal network - which also sadly includes drug running and the ghastly horrors of child porn.
Having said all of this, I know this site and many other Internet sites are under survellience by these groups which include forums - with posters attempting to raise awareness of the Jewish crime network(s). And as such, the people doing survellience can easily take each single post-comment, and compile their own list without using the list I compiled. And, in reality, they probably already did this a long time ago. Perhaps even going to the extreme of checking out our personal isp addresses correlated to these screen names/monikers. These groups are as follows: US Psyops-Cointerpro, Pentagon, AIPAC, JDF, B'nai Brith, Israel's Mossad, World Jewish-Zionist Congress et al.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Cheers and Peace.
Funny how you "Wall of Shamer's" get all twitchy when you see your name in lights huh?
If Tom takes the list down, I have a copy to re-post whenever necessary to remind the 65,000 + other follower's who the seeds of hate belong to - don't worry! You won't be forgotten!
Cheers and Peace!
kats | 07.27.08 - 7:06 pm | #
Let’s see, katz– you think that hatred “is an expression of an emotion created by a reason?” You think by discussing hatred we can eliminate it? Talking about our feelings of hatred is therapeutic and can bring healing? Now why in the hell didn’t I think of that? All this world needs is a good bunch of people discussing why they hate others – all along – and somehow we missed it! Hand to forehead! For fuck’s sake – I think that IS THE PROBLEM – rationalizing hatred – as a simple emotion with reason – OH COME ON!
There is no reason for hatred and hatred expressed is not usually expressed emotionally – it is usually expressed physically or with some action….and never is that action constructive. Hatred breads hatred and discussion thereof, does not bring healing….To discuss hatred as though it has reason or substance behind it is to encourage it and give it an excuse in others.
Anger is an emotion that is caused usually by a grievance (imagined or not). Fear does not bring anger – and fear is no reason for hatred! Anger can be discussed and often it is useful to explain what happened that made you angry – if you can figure that out – try explaining hatred – there are no words to explain as that emotion demands more than words – it is expressed in actions.
Anti-semite, means nothing to me and I agree with your thoughts on it’s creation – but bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, etc – they have a very real meaning – and a very real expression in our society – and yes, hatred is a generic term for all of the above. But name calling used to silence a dissenting view is not a tactic invented by the Jews – or one that only they indulge in – and you, my dear, are a perfect example – whether you have a word you use to silence someone saying what you aren’t ready to hear or a way to say things – it’s the same thing!
Why would anyone call you or some of these comments hatefilled – bigotry – racist or anything else? Well let’s see….
You say “ “ -More than 90% of abortion clinics in the US is owned and/or operated by this community, which brings them $4 billion annually. 100% of leaders who created pro-choice movement to protect this industry are khazars. Are they all zionists? Of course not. Is it coincidence? Of course not. Then what is it?”
What is it, then? What do you think it is? Obviously you think it is something more then what it is to me. It is just another bunch of jerk offs and murderers capitalizing on an industry – and as with most industries – and those profiting from some monopoly thereof – they will bring about a civil movement to save their industry and their profits if it comes to that….the abortion industry may or may not be an example of such – in relation to the pro-choice movement – but if they are –they are hardly the only ones that have utilized such a tactic before.
Then you say, “-They are the primary founders, owners, and operators of porno industry. Is that because they are zionists? I don't think they can tell if zionism is a new flat screen HDtv by Zenith or an expensive dog food brand. Then what gives? The founders and leaders of the largest christian polygamy (warren jeffs and his father) in us history turn out to be khazars (never mind the last pope!). Is that coincidence? If it was an isolated case, I would have said maybe. They disproportionately show higher level of incestial incidents. They disproportionately occupy higher percentage of serial murderers in the western countries.”
Oh my – porn! Oh my- Christian polygamy! Incest! Obviously these criminals crimes have your moral compass jumpin like a rabbit chased by a wolf!
And what about those Catholic priests who in one hour distribute the body of the Christ and in the next hour touch the bodies of the boys that go to church there! Are they Khazars too? And what about the evangelist reverends stealing from their old, infirm and poor – taking everything they can squeeze out of them so they can get a whore for the night?
The porn industry – oh my – no mention of the munition and weapons industry or defense industry. Who runs the GM food industry or the corporate agriculture industry? And what about those assholes in the oil industry – is it a coincidence that most are Bush cabinet members or connected therein? If not – does that make them some little coined group too? What the fuck is the difference between the assholes running the porn and abortion industry and those running the oil and weapons industries? Who the fuck cares if they are black, men, over the age of 55, rich, Christian, decendants of some Egyptian prince or from fucking mars – all I know is that they are all assholes and guilty of crimes against humanity – what difference does it make what else they are? Are these Khazars genetically predisposed to breed baby assholes and therefore we should iliminate anyone with that dna or something? What the fuck is your point? Talk about our hatred so we can spread it like information – and others can find the justification for the hatred they may want to raise someday but because of the lack of reasoning, they chose before to keep it at bay – come all – come ye – come and feel the hatred and discuss it – explain it like it is just an emotion – with reason behind – it’s an expression of oneself – yippie –
OH COME ON! Do you hear yourself?
And I would love to see your links which give you the statistics on the disproportionate murderers in the west - are we forgetting about the mass murderers in the white house - or what? And by the way, that is what they say about black people - they neglect to say that the justice system doesn't accurately tag anyone with guilt or innocence so that statistical calculation is just about the same shit as the justice system that it comes with!
You sound like a bigot - you blame a whole group of people or talk about their genetics, their background or their skin or one physical characteristic that really has nothing to do with what an individual does - and accountability needs to be handed to those it belongs to - not those who come from the same place, study the same subjects, share teh same physical characteristics...I don't care about anything more then what they do - Actions is what makes them guilty - and that is all!
does anyone get it - or am i a nazijew - a zionist apologist - or whatever other name you will call me to avoid looking at the truth....It's not where they come from, what god they pray to, what color skin they have or what books they read - it's what they do - and that is what makes a person guilty or innocent! nothing else!
lizbitchwitch:
katz also claims that the Wailing Wall was built by the Arabs, when in fact it is the place of devotion that it is to the Jews because it is what is left of the Jewish-built Second Temple, but then we all know that bigotry goes hand in hand with ignorance.
If the commenters here spent as much time writing to their representatives in Congress, and perhaps the newspapers, as they do spewing their hate here, we might see some action towards relieving the Palestinians from their bondage, but then they couldn't sign their petitions with "anonymous", "atheo", "xzp", and so on.
LONG LIVE THE GOOD JEW
FROM THE LORDS TABLE
WHO THREW
A BONE HE MUST CHEW
FOR HIS BURDEN
LET HIM CARRY WATER
TO THE TREE IN EDEN
MAY THE FRUIT OF KNOWLEDGE
ALWAYS BE EATEN
Nahida,
Excellent poem.
I wish you peace, friendship, and long life.
grandy primm
Try not to be so deceitful.
Read "The Bible Unearthed." by Israel finkelstein. There are MANY other to read too.
There was no "Exodus" there never was a Moses, no Solomon and the only temple ever was a DESCRIPTION of an EGYPTIAN temple in the Bible. IF there was a "David" he can only have been a petty chief of a small group or band of people There is no mention of any King David in any of the records of the surrounding powers of that time.
Jericho was destroyed by an earthquake at least a thousand years before the fictional "Joshua."
Not a stone, not a potsherd has been found in Jerusalem whihc could give the slightest sign of a temple in what was then a very poor village. And, by the way, the spring inside Jerusalem - much like springs in other villages and towns of the Middle East wasa carved out long before any other than Canaanites lived there.
There is LOTS more and I suggest you try to be open and honest on this matter.
The psalms are almost all word for word Egyptian hymns or Mesopotamian hymns!
There is also an exellent video - a series of BBC programs made by John McCarthy. John McCarthy was held hostage in Beirut for fivwe years and when he came out he decided to investigate "The Holy Land" in order to find out for himself what it was all about. The series was called
"It Aint Necessairily So." You should watch it.
It is available from CTVC.
www.ctvc.co.uk
You can see at least a dozen israeli archeelolgists and a few others discussing the various finds at various digs. There are many great Jewish arcehologist who care more for the truth and the integrrituy of their work than for the dirty politics of israhel.
The Jews have destroyed the Cradle of Civilistion from when came our mathematics, the fondation of our medicine, science, language, literature. God help them for what they have done to our, the World Heritage. And now they threaten another great ancient ancient civilisation, Iran. God help them for their miseralbe jealousy and destructive mission and thier greed and cruelty.
God help them for what they are doing to the People of Palestine.
If they are enjoying the swimming pools whihc they have filled wiht the water of the Palestinian People while babies have not got enough, Mothers cannot wash their babies or even give them enough drink while Jews enjoy splashing in SWIMMING POOLS in theri ugly suburbs built on what were the beautiful pristine hills of Palestine because they will pay a terrible price, if only when they die, for their selfishness and their monstrous cruelty to the people of Gaza and Jericho and Ramalah and all the other towns and villages of Palestine who are sweltering in the heat.
And the Jews still carry on in their self indulgent and pitiful manner about what the Germans are supposed to have done to them!
They are not normal people who can behave in this inhuman way.
SO A LIST HAS BEEN DRAWN UP
OF WHO IS COOL AND WHO IS NOT
I WOULD NOT BE TO QUICK IN DRAWING UP A LIST........ XZP
OF FAKE NAMES ON AN INTERNET COMMENTS PAGE
HOWEVER I HAVE A LIST TOO
TOM POSTEN
XZP
ATHEO
PIPPI
ETC ETC ETC
IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST HATE
HAVE THE COURAGE
TO FACE THOSE WHO YOU HATE
POST YOUR REAL NAMES
AND STOP PLAYING GAMES
ISABELLA YOU SAY TO G RANDY PRIMM
"Try not to be so deceitful"
REALLY
WHO ARE YOU TO CALL INTO QUESTION OUR BELIEFS
ARE YOU GOD
THE ALL KNOWING
IS YOU GOD ANY BETTER THAN MINE
WHY ASK YOUR GOD
WHO IS THE TRUE GOD
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE ANSWER
@lizbitchwitch - 07.27.08 - 1:02 pm - Quote: "Is the Oil cartel just a farce?"
Lifted just this quote, lizbitchwitch, because the Dutch parliament (they're nearly all compliant with the war machine) is wondering too why the Dutch right now pay eight Eurocents more for a liter of fuel than in all the other European countries. In reality the Dutch are paying not only the highest fuel prices, but also the highest taxes on earth, Sweden now being #2. - TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/3tkqjb
Pls do remember that The Netherlands is not only a full scale SHELL fiefdom, but also 'USA half-asleep'. It's run by the same gang of murderous and mad money masters, the same ruthless mostly zionist financiers as the US etc. The Euro currency, which nobody asked for, also was shoved down the throat of the Europeans, like food in the neck of a duck to make duck liver, the Paté de foie gras. - TinyUrl.: http://tinyurl.com/6m37oc
The Euro currency is - like the US dollar - not backed by any gold, silver or oil: it's also just printed out of paper and ink, and worth only what 'they' decide. We're bled by 'them' and have to take their word for it?
The 'clever' and tax paid political personnel, a.k.a. the parliamentarians, who are supposed to represent us, the people, which they never do, say they will investigate the matter whether those big oil companies have formed a cartel...
What the hell do they think?
If they ever think...
Point 1.
This is the kind of remark I object to in that it is totally counter-productive in overcoming the multitude of injustices perpetrated against the Palestinian People by the United Kingdom, the United States, and the United Nations:
The sooner Israel is blown off the face of the Earth the better. Nazi Government backed up by hateful bigots.
dpb | 07.26.08 - 2:07 pm | #"
Point 2.
The following illustrates my point about mindless ad hominem attacks that contribute nothing to an understanding of the problems we face. It also illustrates a new point I want to make: Anyone who is afraid to identify themselves in this discussion does not deserve to be taken seriously:
Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 10:49 am, another mental castrato jewnazi psychopath...
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 3:53 pm | #
and
Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 12:57 am, another projewnazi blatherer...
Anonymous | 07.26.08 - 10:17 am | #
Point 3.
In response to the following:
@Lawrence Boxall | 07.26.08 - 11:36 am:
PLS read again what I think concerning religion: The problem is the same everywhere. If you can make people believe anything, they will do anything.
If there's any kind of 'God' around - omnipotent - who's responsible for all those millions of deaths by the US/UK/Israeli/NATO warmachine, pls: I know millions who want to talk to him!
Give us a break, Lawrence!
(Henk Ruyssenaars | Homepage | 07.26.08 - 1:14 pm | #)
I am a complete atheist because I don't think my brain is wired to deal with concepts like "God." God is none of my business and I have nothing to say on the matter. However, while I am quite happy to point fingers at Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists who use their scriptures to justify evil, I am not prepared to attack the entire membership of any religion nor to cast judgements on the religions of other people. I also think it is totally demented to speak of the Bolshevik Revolution as an attack on Russian Christians by Jews and I don't think it serves the Palestinian cause to talk like that.
Point 4.
While I agree with most of what you say, William C. Carlotti I am afraid I have sown confusion in your mind about what I am saying. You comment on my entry as follows:
Lawrence Boxall offers a well known defense of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported slaughter of innocents in occupied Palestine.
It requires that we write a treatise on all the slaughter of innocents if we write a criticism of Israel's slaughter of innocents; it requires that we write a treatise on all the confiscation of sovereign territories if we write a criticism of Israel's confiscation of the sovereign Palestinian territory that is beyond the internationally recognized border of Israel: it requires that we write a treatise on all the blanket bombings, bulldozing of houses, farms, schools if we write a criticism of Israel's blanket bombings, bulldozing of houses, farms schools;, it requires that we write a treatise on all targeted assassinations of the political leaders of a country if we write a criticism of Israel's targeted assassinations of the political leaders of Palestine; it requires that we write a criticism of all viciously destructive groups like the nazis, the fascists,the racists, the klu klux klan if we write a criticism of the Jewish Zionists and their internecine Christian Zionists.
It is a pattern of clever exceptionalism that serves to ignore the focus on the justified criticism and transfer the focus on to the critic.
William c carlotti | Homepage | 07.26.08 - 11:16 am | #
I am not defending Zionism, nor the actions of Zionists in any way at all. I consider Zionism to be the single most tragic phenomena that has occurred in the entire history of the Jewish People, and I consider the pursuit of the Zionist agenda one of most frightening of current activities in terms of its consequences for all of humankind. That is, of course, over and above the enormous suffering that has been visited on the Palestinian People.
I am not requiring anybody to write a thesis on every other atrocity when discussing the atrocities committed by Zionists. What I was trying to say, and obviously not making myself clear, is that it is wrong to condemn Jews for being Jews. I'm imploring people to condemn people for the crimes that they commit and not the entirety of their group. I am appalled that so much criticism of Israel in the comments to this particular article does, in fact, smell of anti-Semitism in the traditional old meaning of the term. In other words, there is clearly a lot of Judeophobia to be found here and that is regrettable. There is so much here that is of the same nature as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
I criticize Israel for the laws that are racist and unjust, the military brutality, the torture, and the massive ecological destruction that is the truth behind this myth of their bringing a "flowering to the desert."
I roundly condemn Israel for the viciousness of their destruction of Lebanon in 2006 and while I don't agree with everything that Hezbollah stands for, I honour their right to resist Israeli aggression.
I don't agree with everything that Hamas stands for but I believe they have a right to take Jewish soldiers prisoner and they have a moral obligation to the rest of humanity to resist occupation and oppression.
However, even if 99% of Jews have been conned into believing in Zionism as a just enterprise and thus voice unconditional support for Israel, I still think it is wrong to rant against Jews as a group as some do here. [Though I must hasten to add that I don't believe unconditional Jewish support for Israel is even near 50% of North American Jews]
I also believe that Hezbollah and Hamas should respect international law (as everyone should) and not contravene the Geneva Conventions while exercising their right to resist, even if Israel is guilty of offences against international law. The fact that the United States has flagrantly ignored its treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions is tragic in terms of the damage this has done to global respect for international law. The main thrust of my point is that the crimes of my enemy are not a valid justification for my crimes.
Like you I believe that Jewish exceptionalism is wrong and so I don't agree with your point about the inviolability of the 1947 borders as proclaimed by the UN. I think the United Nations made a terrible mistake in partitioning Palestine. The decision was, to my mind, in complete violation of UN principles particularly the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Why should a Jewish state, whatever its borders may be, be acceptable, if a white state was not acceptable in parts of South Africa. A Jewish state is not acceptable to me anywhere on my planet. I also don't accept an Islamic state in Saudi Arabia and nor do I accept a Catholic state in the Vatican.
The problem for me is that the only solution I have is one that involves an acceptance of international law, particularly humanitarian law:
1. The Jews who were born in Israel have a right to live there in peace and security.
2. The Palestinians who don't live in Israel and who where driven out or are the descendants of those who were driven out during the ethnic cleansing attempts of '47/'48 have an inalienable right of return.
3. If 1. and 2. above are exercised and Israel remains a state for Jews, it will not be a democracy. If you accept the current Green Line as a border between two states (or even the original '47 borders) and make one state for Jews and one state for Palestinians, you have an Apartheid solution.
No matter which way you try to twist reality, a two-state solution is an Apartheid solution. Apartheid is considered a crime in international law so to make this two-state idea morally acceptable is simply perpetuating the exceptionalism for Jews that you accuse me of supporting. What gives Jews the right to have a Jewish state on somebody else's historic territory?
I don't expect it will happen tomorrow and it may very well be preceded by a two-state compromise, but ultimately the only way to have a just peace (Peace and Justice) in the land that was Palestine until 1947 is to have a single state for all the people that live there. This state, whatever it is called, will have to have a constitution that separates Church and State completely while guaranteeing equal rights and religious freedom to all.
I don't think ranting against the Talmud and religion serves any purpose and often descends into Xenophobia with all the dangers that are consequent to that.
Keep posting xzp,pippi,Tom Posten,atheo,Isabella,Hanks,Veronica,Nahida and all the others, there is one Anonymous who is really brilliant. It does not matter what name you post under keep writing stuff that MSM hides...
inspite of what MIchael Cohen says
I have really learnt a lot from you all and feel really humbled to be in
And by the way, g.randyprimm, have you read The Controversy of Zion yet?
You really should. I would if I were you.
About "hate". I thionk I have said it several times before - I absolutely do hate Injustice, lies and cruelty. I dont not just hate it, I loath those who deny dignity to Human Beings - no matter who they are.
If the Germans actually did the things that the Jews say they did I would vomit over them too. As it is I am not at all sure they did!
I have seen a video made by a young man who happens to be Jewish who visited the camp called Auschwitz and who found no gas ovens or mass graves or anything else but he did find a post office, dentist clinic, doctors clinic and hospital, a theatre - and there was a very good orchestra - playing fields, school, laundry where the zyklon gas WAS used to fumigate mattresses and clothing, vegetable gardens, football teams and a very nice swimming pool with diving board.
For heaven's sake, the camp even had it's own currency and a brothel!
So; I do not know the truth about those camps but I do know that the land of Palestine has been stolen from its rightful owners and that they, the rightful owners are being treated with extreme cruelty. They are humiliated by disgusting young "soldiers" every day of their lives.
For anyone to compare what the Jews do to what the South AFricans did is simply very ignorant.
South Africa did not make a practise of murdering children. They did not ever bomb any Africans let alone kill them if they went onto a beach, nor did they herd them behind walls in order to starve them and deprive them of water.
Believe me, South AFrica was a warm and happy human sort of place. The place they call "israel" is very far from being a place for Human Beings.
There are and there have been many fine truthful Jews.
Israel Finkelstein
Isreal Shamir
Isreal Shahak
Jack Bernstein
Henry Makow
Lots and lots more. In fact, most of the archeologist on the video I mentioned above are very fine upstanding men. I don't think any of them go and make fools of themselves at the Western Wall!
If I was Jewish I could not bear to live in luxury while the People, the Human Beings in Gaza do not have enough to eat or drink and cannot sleep peacefully. Anyone who can is simply not worthy of being called Human Being.
Try to be more open and honest g randyprimm.
AS for those who try to bamboozzle us all here with psychopathic nonsense -
they are not worth a thought. I am completely uninterested in their slippery, slithery, sly lying. They do not know right from wrong, they never will - so ignore them. They are most unlikely to learn anything from anyone, ever.
it is people like that who give Jewish people a bad name - and have done, down through many centuries.
I do not "hate Jews" I hate liars and I hate fools and thugs and anyone who does not treat Human beings with respect and dignity.
The name of the young Jewish man who made the video about Auschwitz is DAvid Cole. His video can be found at
www.honestmediatoday.com or org.
There are many others.
I feel really humble in such knowledgeable company. Thank you all and I love the passion in your writings. Also jerry gates,cat, Raymond-anonymous etc.all the others
They are not normal people who can behave in this inhuman way.
Isabella | 07.28.08 - 1:56 am | #
I accept the list of crimes in your entry, but you ruin what you are saying when you conclude like this. You sound as if you are attacking all Jews. Here I rewrite your previous sentence to make my point:
And the White Afrikaners still carry on in their self indulgent and pitiful manner about what the British are supposed to have done to them!
My point being it is a human phenomena not a Jewish phenomena.
What made the struggle against Apartheid so appealing won so many supporters from all around the world was the fact the victims of Apartheid never condemned the Afrikaner or the whites as a group. On the contrary, they offered the world a vision of justice for all of humankind that everyone could readily agree with and be inspired by.
During the Rwandan Genocide of 1994, extremists killed an estimated 800,000 Rwandans, mainly Tutsis as well as moderate Hutus. The perpetrators of these crimes are in the process of being tried in court and sentenced for their crimes if found guilty. However the Rwandan government has made a very progressive and humane decision in abolishing the death penalty because they have realized that if all of the people found guilty of participating in the genocide are put to death, that will constitute another genocide.
It is possible to make people take responsibility for the most horrendous crimes they have coitted against humanity without labelling an entire group as "not normal."
The honourable response to crimes against humanity is what happened at Nuremburg to the Nazis. Individual people were put on trial. The entire German nation was not put on trial.
Angel Gabriel - 07.27.08 - 10:26 pm
A shill serves those who kill!
You too, Brutus!
There is no point in denigrating the messenger as that won't work this time.
Deal with the facts which are not disputable.
Don't allow your opinion to colour your judgment.
Our world needs to recognize the crimes of various groups that want to CONTROL our world.
One world government won't happen as people will REVOLT and destroy those with EVIL DESIGNS.
@MICHAEL COHEN - 07.28.08 - 2:14 am - Quote: "WHO IS THE TRUE GOD? I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE ANSWER."
Why not ask George Bush, who says he's talking to this jerk?
This 'god' or 'yahweh' who - from all believers point of view - is supposed to be omnipotent, and thus guilty of all misery pestering humanity?
We are actually billions of human beings who want to see and speak to this criminal ghost!
Isabella writes:
"Believe me, South AFrica was a warm and happy human sort of place. The place they call "israel" is very far from being a place for Human Beings."
That sentence alone shows, in spite of the possibility that you have a good heart and that your heart is in the right place, just how confused you really are about everything. Believe me, I was born in South Africa in 1947 and left there in 1981.
There is much similarity between Israel and South Africa and much that is different, but if you believe that South Africa was a "warm and human sort of place" then I have to warn you that you need to completely rethink where you are getting all your information from. That kind of opinion about South Africa suggests either extreme bigotry or a very suspect source of information.
Like in Gaza today, the South African Apartheid regime produced a number of children with brain damage from malnutrition. Like in Palestine under Zionism, Black South Africans where uprooted from the places they lived in and moved to designated areas that were reserved for their "race." Blacks lived in misery as underpaid labourers on white farms on land that they had once farmed. Sometimes a White farmer would murder a Black and get away with it because a white person's word was always more believable than a black person's word.
The economic exploitation of black labour was extreme and the daily humiliation of black people was endemic.
But then, what can I say, you even believe that the Nazi concentration camps provided brothels for the enjoyment of the inmates. Or where you perhaps referring to those unfortunate Jewish women who had "Field whore, for the use of the German Army" tattooed onto their arms by the Nazis.
Sorry, Isabella, while there is no excuse for what the Zionist and the Israeli state has done to the Palestinians, there is no point to holocaust denial other than to perpetrate racist hatred against Jews.
What happened in the Holocaust should be of concern to every human being and it should not be something that Jews think the can own and then use to justify the persecution of the Palestinian people. The moral response to the Holocaust, in my opinion, is to struggle for human rights for all. Unfortunately, the Zionists took the opposite direction and chose a tribalistic response to the problem of a lack of respect for universal human rights.
There are two responses to injustices that are open to us, the universalist or the tribalist/nationalist/ethnocentric approach. Patriotism and flag-waving is the way of bloodshed. The Zionists betrayed the universalist trajectory of Jewish history and returned to the ideology of the ancient hill-tribes. That in itself is tragic, besides all the horrible material consequences that have followed. However, though I know that you claim not to hate Jews per se, there is still a lot of confusion in what you say which sometimes sounds very hateful of the group.
Isabelle, by experience I know that @Lawrence Boxall - 07.28.08 - 4:50 am is right when he writes about the sufferings of the non-white people in South Africa.
And now we'll all be glad when mr. Boxall will explain in detail who the owners have been - and mostly still are - of the main South African big industries, starting with multinationals like De Beers and all the others that extract diamonds, gold, silver etc.
Being born in South Africa in 1947
and leaving there in 1981, he will know all the ins and outs.
Telling us who profited from the Apartheid.
Thanks in advance, mr. Boxall!
HR & Apartheid - see homepage.
henky the hanky
but henky you know very well who the owners are
the same people who colonised south africa from the start
the dutch and then the british
the british empire has left a trail of broken social experiments across the globe
the whites in s.africa were just tools of the empire
literally cannon fodder
but henk my boy
they say the chickens come home to roost or roast as you prefer
just go to brixton for a taste of some jamaiaca
how about all those pakiatani resturants
best curry ever
fuck yes i say
god save the queen
for last
but henk
survival comes first
and religion provides the will and intent
its that simple
XZP
":I do consider myself in an ongoing learning process regarding all these issues of Jews-Zionists-Israelis and their occupation of the U.S., wars they instigate which kill millions of innocent people, their illegal ownership of our country's banking system, that they are in fact a huge criminal network - which also sadly includes drug running and the ghastly horrors of child porn."
as a jew i am offended by this post
serious accusations
can you please stop posting this rubbish
or provide proof
name names show us the evidence so we can contact the proper authorities
do you live in a country where i could take you to court for libel
Anonymous | 07.28.08 - 6:39 am, another mental castrato jewnazi psychopath...
"The New World Order is not about israel or jews
lizbitchwitch | 07.27.08 - 1:02 pm,
another jewblind projewnazi blatherer...
Anonymous | 07.28.08 - 6:01 am, the typical jewnazi psychopathicity on display...
MICHAEL COHEN | 07.28.08 - 2:00 am
I picked up your post for it was the shortest for my reply
As the others are so full of points ( some grant some not so grant some just do not make it into logic ) to answer their points ,and to give each point it's deserving respond, I will be not that short from writing a book , this forum is not the place , nor that I am a dedicated writer at present, but happily just being a neutral objective observer, occasionally contribute to the forums , But could ONLY address one point at a time,
I do firmly believe in a dialogue between two objective logical persons .. with scientific method of resolving dispute ... there could NEVER be dispute only concord example when you state say 2+2=4 .. the other person could not but agree ( well unless he/she is a lawyer trained in deception , his objective is the kill /win ,at all cost , no qualms necessary , he seek financial gains not peace of conscious )
Anyway back to your post
Why you want Xzp to reveal his /her name ?
He could be Ariel Sharon or Sharon Stone I careless to either ,does it matter if Sharon was his /her name ,or Sharon being his /her family name
It is a name ,it could be a number it could be a sign ..so WHAT ?
How is this relevant to what he /she say ? It does not matter the least to me ..why should it matter to you MICHAEL COHEN or Mickey Mouse or Tom Jones or whatever you would like to call yourself ? That does Not make it into Logic , your reasoning is wonky not level’
Why you choose Cohen to tell us you are a Jew ..? we do not care Mr Cohen .. OK ..!
Now does my name bother you, or take offence to it ?
I have been on ICH for years now , other posters know I do regular grammatical mistake or occasional vocabulary mistake .. ( less now to what I use to have ) just because I do not proof reading it before I post .. I tried it once , I end up writing what I call a book ,never seem to be totally happy with what I post ,there is always something more to say, more to explain etc .. I post as soon as I type it .. I did not say that is the proper way to post ,=It is wrong = but in my case it suit me ,so that is the way I do it , take it or leave it ..I am not richer or poorer ..I got my friends and I got my enemies , besides I do not really bear malice to any person ..just feel sorry for his reasoning ..! that is all ..May I remind some this is a Public forum ,not a private club , members by invitation only ..those that do not like what they read , the could either comment ( that we hope they do ) or kindly leave ( that we do not miss either )
I loved Xzp ,when he /she stated ( I really am posting and blogging to change the world and make it a better place. Honestly, I believe I’m still in the learning process and still researching to learn more and more everyday about these issues. However, time is running out, the Jews-Zionists-Israelis are advancing an evil global agenda even as we post on this forum, with the objective of complete annihilation of this planet and - every living creature on this planet. 9/11 was just a warning from them. Here are more posters who offer great information and good contributors to this forum (sorry if I left anyone out of this equation – there are many others – can’t remember all the monikers-screen names):
Any body not liking the list ,I say so what ? post your own ..it is a free forum .keep it that way.. retards lay off Xzp , he said what he wanted to say ..you could say the same ..ok
RE: Anonymous | 07.28.08 - 6:39 am |
Here's a couple of examples, and stop with the absurd-imbecilic-moronic "threats".
Jews Drug running are engaging in money laundering:
http://globheu.blogspot.com/
2006...fghanistan.html
As vile and despicable as this is, it seems as though child pedophilia and child abduction perpetrators are often Jewish:
http://judicial-inc.biz/marc_dutroux.htm
http://www.jabpage.org/posts/rus...s/
russjews.html
Cheers!
Unfortunately, 'Michael Cohen' knows exactly what their agenda is, and he or she is trying to stifle our comment about it. He or she is part of the agenda, and he or she also is perfectly aware of that. He or she should also be aware that most of us now know it.
xzp
Brother we know of those links Thanks anyway ..most posters on ICH knows that too .. even those disputing the GLARING facts knows it too , and the too dumb will not visit this site ,even if they did , they will not understand the links ,or what is presented ..
Some people Brother ..one could fool all the times , no remedy to those ,some too bigoted ,too close minded to entertain a new idea , one could only educate the literates ,that is all .the rest are still reading Comics
We post links as you do ,just to remind the Dark Side that we are aware of their scheming and of their action too ..( WE ARE NOT FOOLED )
The days or reckoning are drawing closer by the day
D-Day will soon fall on all the Charlatans..( few people from their ranks started jumping ship ..good sign to us bad omen to them …………)
People all over the World had enough of bullshit thrown at them from all directions by the zion owned Media
The AWAKENING is here
No turning back , to = TRUTH = when it is known and understood
Long live the freedom of speech..
Houston based Israeli commandos after Katrina
Bill Moyer's interview with Jeremy Scahill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T...h?v=TUzrV0lJ-
0A
Blackwater and Israeli commandos after Katrina
The Isreali commandos are based in Houston, TX!
http://www.isitrainingcenter.com/
Instinctive Shooting, Inc.
I'm sure HPD and CoH are aware of them.
...
Anonymouseee..This is for you..
Mayer Rothschild'sFamous Statement of World Manipulation
" Let me issue and control a nation's money, and I care not whowrites its laws."
RothschildsGain Control of British Finance Via War Loans
1790: Mayer Amschel Rothschild states,
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws."
1791: The Rothschilds get, "control of a nation's money," through Alexander Hamilton (their agent in George Washington’s cabinet) when they set up a central bank in the USA called the First Bank of the United States. This is established with a 20 year charter.
1792: Jacob (James) Mayer Rothschild born.
1796: Amschel Mayer Rothschild marries Eva Hanau.
1798: John Robison publishes a book entitled, "Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies." In this book, Professor Robison of the University of Edinburgh, one of the leading intellects of his time, who in 1783 was elected general secretary of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, gave details of the whole Rothschild Illuminati plot.
He advised how he had been a high degree mason in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, and had been invited by Adam Weishaupt to Europe, where he had been given a revised copy of Weishaupt's conspiracy. However, although he pretended to go along with it, Professor Robison did not agree with it and therefore published his aforementioned book. The book included details of the Bavarian government's investigation into the Illuminati and the French Revolution.
That same year on July 19th, David Pappen, President of Harvard University, lectured the graduating class on the influence illuminism was having on American politics and religion.
At the age of 21, Nathan Mayer Rothschild leaves Frankfurt for England, where with a large sum of money given to him by his father, he sets up a banking house in London.
1800: Salomon Mayer Rothschild marries Caroline Stern.
1806: Napolean states that it is his,
"object to remove the house of Hess-Cassel from rulership and to strike it out of the list of powers."
On hearing this, Prince William IX of Hesse-Hanau, flees Germany, goes to Denmark and entrusts his fortune valued at $3,000,000 at that time to Mayer Amschel Rothschild for safekeeping.
Nathan Mayer Rothschild marries Hannah Barent Cohen the daughter of a wealthy London merchant.
If you need more education on ROTHCHILDS LET ME KNOW RABBI ANONYNOUS..
"When the conflict with France ended the House of Rothschild was in control of British fiance and was the official banker of the British Government. This odd financial octopus was acknowledged to be in some respects the greatest power on the earth and was acknowledged by some writers as the "Sixth Great Power of Europe" (page 68 The Empire of "The City" , 1946 E. C. Knuth, Milwaukee Wisconsin).
BALFOUR DECLARATION&LIONEL ROTHSCHILD: top of page
a brief but official statement of the British government in 1917 expressing sympathy with Zionist aspirations to establish a Jewishhomeland in the Land of Israel. The statement was released in the form of aletter from Lord Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary, to Lord Lionel Rothschild, a supporter of the Zionist movement.It said: "His Majesty's Government views with favor the establishment in Palestine of a nationalhome for the Jewish people and will use the best endeavors to facilitate the achievement ofthis object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil andreligious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or rights and political status enjoyedby Jews in any other country." The statement became a milestonein Zionist history.
Now do u understand..rabbi Anonymous..
Again: the winner writes the history books - when will most People see this ??
Thank you for your brave article....
The entire Media - in US and Europe is run by Jews and THEY tell you what´s right or wrong !!! And THEY pull the strings - both politically and financially - always have...
always will. Unless someday People will rise and say ENOUGH !!!
Hiding behind´the word Antisemit has been the greatest game for them. A blanko check for anything. But thanks you Uri Avnery and some others, who are unlike the majority....The earth wants PEACE - the majority of People wants PEACE.... get out of you Coma.
".....the Cradle of Civilistion from when came our mathematics, the fondation of our medicine, science, language, literature"
Isabella
Sorry I dont agree with you on this point, I have studied archeology for some time now, and although what you state may have some credence, this is not true at all. Its mere propaganda.
The origins of mathematics and science can be found in the Vedas, which outdates any civilisation known to man. I can provide you links to prove it if you like. Atlantis was India and this dates back ONLY to 15000 years, besides man's history dates back to about 2 BILLION YEARS ago. Unfortunately since the brain of man has a flaw, which psychological THINKING is the major culprit. This primitive thinking hasnt left our psyche since the dawn of time, it is still embedded deep within, and this thinking embraces philosphies, ideals, irrationalities, hence the repeat cycle of wiping ourselves only for the remnants of humans to start off once again in this stone age to nuclear technology cycle.
This is not meant to be an insult nor a rude remark Isabella, but just pointing an error on your part. Yes I do agree that a great civilisation did really exist in Iraq and most parts of the Middleast. But totally disagree with you about the origins of mathematics and sciences. Even the most learnt Arab scholars will state this, that it was the Ancient Indians who were the pioneers. The invention of the Wheel, decimal system, arithmetic, geometry, nuclear science then, chess, metallurgy, binary computer systems, and including air space ship technology; vimanas, health and medicines, aryuvedic, martial arts, and many many more.
In Ancient Sumeria, only Algebra was their discovery plus they added a great many variations to it maths, but also to science and medicines, which was also shared by the Greeks and the Egyptians. All were borrowed from VEDIC SCIENCE and Mathematics. The ancient indian classical MATHEMATICAL language of Sanskrit were the origins of the indo-european language which were utilised by the Ancient Indians; the VEDAS.
But by saying this doesnt mean that the Middle East didnt contribute to Humanity. However, try Googling Michael Cremo for starters and when you have finished with that legnthy investigation, I can provide you with some more links to validate this.
To all those who think that zionism is only part of the problem.
What I have been hinting all along is what most people have missed or translated things to suit their mindsets.
We have zionists who are in control, whether they be christians or jews, or even both. This is an ideology which they both worship. And it is this very IDEALS that is destroying mankind. That worshiping of the ideology, has to do with the thought processes where one is conditioned since birth, hence the actions that spring up like an antelope in flight when it comes to comprehension, translation, or with cognitive realities.
Plus it doesnt help humanity at all with how these thought processes are nurtured in the psyche, when one examines in fine detail what the competitiveness (product of idealistic thought) in society is doing to us all. We have accepted this as the BE ALL and END ALL of life, and never questioned it in our self knowledge. Please if you are concerned about the welfare of humanity, look at this most delicate and subtle thought process embedded in one's thinking. Then include the image forming experience which gets lodged into the EGO which breeds hate and violence, and all those abnormalities which we are now discussing.
I am sorry to disagree with a few who state that violence is as natural as love. This is totally absurd. Psychological Fear, where the selfish me is threatened, is triggered by the EGO which generates an action where violence is born. Love has no relation to violence at all, it is not the formation by thought, but derives from total passion and compassion, not by comparison nor measurement.
Love can only be when the selfish is not operating, otherwise it is not love.
Love cannot be defined, captured, nor placed in a prison for self gratification, nor can the mind capture LOVE or cultivate it. Men and Women in the Universe have written songs and lyrics and sing it to their hearts content depicting their love for their partners and for their countries. But ironically they are willing to KILL for it, as it seems this reality is unfolding. I ask you is that LOVE ?
To Lawrence Boxall
In answer to your quotes.
"My point being it is a human phenomena not a Jewish phenomena"
We all know it is NOT a jewish phenomena, and like you stated that each group will or at times took on the mantle of being in charge of the herd, but the actuality in the NOW and the REALITY of what and who IS, is that the right wing jewish phenomena are in CONTROL and letting out this false deception that it is the others, one can join the dots as what is being perpectuating not only to MUSLIMS but to others. We can talk blue into the face of it which is an undisputed fact.
So according to your logic, today, man is just after the oil and the riches, and no other motivational primitive factor is present. Is that what you are stating ?
Besides I strongly feel that the ordinary/majority of the jews are almost identical to the goy sheeple who have been led by the nose by BOTH the zionist christians and jews, and they totally comply to this corrupt system.
Since I now described psychological thought to you and others, please, cmon please be serious and think for a minute or two, before you go into robotic and automatic defence mode, and tell me sir, that if this God made me superior, and since I am the chosen one" what actions could stem out of my being please be careful when you answer this ?
Sir even a simpleton would answer you this in plain and simple language, that HE or SHE would be bigoted from the action which is embedded in thought.
Your Quote
"It is possible to make people take responsibility for the most horrendous crimes they have coitted against humanity without labelling an entire group as "not normal."
End of quote
Sir you have just answered our question, dont only take the Rwanda's abnormal war, but also equate to what is happening at a much larger scale here in the World today, with the chaos perpectuated in one's mental makeup which thought is the main culprit. Mentioning parts maybe true, but its the WHOLE which you seem to be avoiding.
quote
"The honourable response to crimes against humanity is what happened at Nuremburg to the Nazis. Individual people were put on trial. The entire German nation was not put on trial"
But then again Lawrence, why jail people for discussing the Holocaust ? Surely, one can assume that this delicate subject has many flaws as holes in a swiss cheese. Banning free speech is a cardinal sin. You can discuss the Rwanda massacre quite openly and we can blame this on various factors. Now what would you assume or logically think, if they jail you for speaking about this genocide, please answer this, as it is important. Everyone seems to fudge this important issue, which throws the holocaust industry as a fraud to us. Or else if there was truth in this matter, no body would be able to challenge the truth of it all. Dont let your thought processes run with you by jumping on the bandwagon, that I am anti this or anti that. That is a poor excuse for not facing the facts nor the truth.
Now if you are serious, then open this debate up for all to participate, and have independant non biased researchers to come up with the truth.
Lawrence the mere fact that they jail people from speaking or trying to find the truth, proves to me and others that somebody IS HIDING THE TRUTH OF WHAT ACTUALLY DID TAKE PLACE.
C'mon please dont let your fragmented thinking sir come in the way of defending these criminals sway you from the truth which sometimes is hard to swallow. WE ALL CONDEMN ZIONISM whether they are jewish, christians, muslims, martians, hindus, buddhists or whoever. It is the culture of criminals who stick to this primitive belief of being chosen that triggers them to commit the crimes in the first place. When all of the world's people would love and like to see a UNITY, when YOU can see at our very doorsteps who is running the world with its division belief system in place, then one can come to only ONE CONCLUSION...Sorry sir, although correct on some issues...You are most definitely wrong on this one...You ought to join the dots very carefully and not be swayed by the propaganda either from your education or from the Goebbels-type Media.
What you could do in the very least is to ENLIGHTEN THE SHEEPLE TO REALITY, and have them open their eyes to seeing things other than the jaded view the controlled media offers us, even if they insult you or injure your fragile ego. The education of the mind never stops, be it knowledge or intuition, it is like a flowing river, when it stops, the river like the mind is dead.
Lawrence Boxall.
I was interrogated by the Boss - the Mossad of South AFrica at the time and I can assure you it was very frightening.
I do not mean to say that the African people were perfectly happy and well treated. However, this artificial stater called "israel" is so much worse that it simply does not bear comparison.
Furthermore, Mandela sold South Frica out to the World Bank and the IMF. and the people are MUCH worse off than they ever were.
I spent a lot of time with Africans. I was fascinated with Sangomas, (witchdoctors) because I discovered that they are truly amazing healers.
They are amazing! For instance, I was informed that when you visit a sangoma you should take a gift - just something small like a little money or a bag of fruit or anything. You do not just walk in and give it to her or him (more ususlly a her) but you hide it somewhere on the way, perhaps in a tree or in a bush or under a rock or anywhere at all. If the sangoma "has the spirit" she or he will know where the gift is and will ask for it!
And they do! I tried it out more than once.
Anyway, the Afrkaner did not make the entire world suffer for the injustice he felt was done to him by the English (and he had a point, by the way - about the English!) no matter how he felt. He did not have the power to do any such thing - and I do not think thWorld would have put up with it for a moment.
The Jews - or their terifying bankers have bought up the whole of the print media, television, the film industry and so on - and the never STOP going on about theri suffering until - as I said, I honestly do not care about it any longer. I do not really believe it either because they have jailed those who have asked questions.
What give them the right to do such things as stop the Whole World from asking questions about the "holocaust"???
Furthermore, it is very odd to my mind that the Jews do not actually want every bit of information possible about that so called holocaust. If I had anyone important to me die in one of those camps I would have to know EVERYTHING possible about how it happened and who exactly did it. I would not be able to rest until I knew for certain who did what and how and why and all of fit.
Why do the Jews keep it hidden and refuse to allow Humanity to even talk about it????
The Jews have gotten themselves a very bad reputation over the centuries as devious, people, far too clever for us poor trusting Human Beings. It behooves them to be especially open and honest.
The bottom line for me though is that they have no right to be in Palestine.
If you want to be honest and to be well informed and to have a deeper understanding of the problem you should read "The Controversy of Zion."
by Douglas Reed and you should most urgently read "The Creature from Jekyll Island." by G.Edward Griffin or watch the video.
WE are dominated and used by the bankers and they have NO RIGHT to do so. NO RIGHT, NO MORAL RIGHT.
It is simply crooked, an enourmous theft from the people of the World and it has to stop.
The Rothschilds - all definitely all Jewish, have some cheek and must be put in their place. Please God it is done soon - or we may not survive as Human Beings at all. If you have children or progeny at all
you had better wake up!
Richard, Thank you for your remarks in answer to what I said about Mesopotamia abd the Cradle of Civilisation.
I know that it probably stems originally form the Vedas - whihc are so mysteriously wonderful that no one knows where they came from, so deep an so profound is the Wisdom there - but how about ZERO?
Zero could hardly be more important and Zero was found or brought into use for Humanity by the Arabs I think?
Zero Richard! That should make your eyes light up - zero. Infinity. And that is why science will never get a handle on Reality.
Emptiness.
All Jews have the right of return to Israel. I pray to God that they all go "home". Please. The sooner the better. That country was created exclusively for YOU. GO THERE. NOW. PLEASE.
Behind the Drive to War
By Ismael Hossein-zadeh
A most widely-cited factor behind the Bush administration’s drive to war is said to be oil. “No Blood for Oil” has been a rallying cry for most of the opponents of the war. Yet, such claims cannot be supported by facts. Major oil companies have come (in recent years and decades) to prefer peace, stability, and predictability in global markets to war and instability. It is true that big oil, like the arms industry, has handsomely benefited form the heightened tempo of war and militarism. There is no hard evidence, however, that major oil interests encouraged or embraced the Bush administrations drive to war and militarism. On the contrary, evidence shows that for the last quarter century or so oil interests have not favored war and turbulence in the Middle East, including the current invasion of Iraq. Major oil companies, along with many other non-military transnational corporations, have lobbied both the Clinton and Bush administrations in support of changing the aggressive, militaristic U.S. policy toward countries like Iran, Iraq and Libya in favor of establishing normal, non-confrontational business and diplomatic relations.
The claim that attributes the Bush administration’s drive to war to the influence of major oil companies tends to rest more on precedent and perception than reality. Part of the perception is due to the exaggerated notion that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney were “oil men” before coming to the White House. But the fact is that George W.Bush was never more than an unsuccessful petty oil prospector and Dick Cheney headed a company, the notorious Halliburton, that sold (and still sells) services to oil companies and the Pentagon. The larger part of the perception, however, stems from the fact that oil companies do benefit from oil price hikes that result from war and political turbulence in the Middle East. Such benefits are, however, largely incidental. Surely, American oil companies would welcome the spoils of the war (in the form of oil price hikes) in Iraq or anywhere else in the world. From the largely incidental oil price hikes that follow war and political convulsion, some observers automatically conclude that, therefore, big oil must have been behind the war. But there is no evidence that, at least in the case of the currentinvasion of Iraq, oil companies pushed for or supported the war.
On the contrary, there is strong evidence that, in fact, oil companies did not welcome the war because they prefer stability and predictability to periodic oil spikes that follow war and political convulsion: “Looking back over the last 20 years, there is plenty of evidence showing the industry’s push for stability and cooperation with Middle Eastern countries and leaders, and the U.S. government’s drive for hegemony works against the oil industry.” As Thierry Desmarest, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of France’s giant oil company, TotalFinaElf, put it, “A few months of cash generation is not a big deal. Stable, not volatile, prices and a $25 price (per barrel) would be convenient for everyone.”
It is true that for a long time, from the beginning of Middle Eastern oil exploration and discovery in the early twentieth century until the mid-1970s, colonial and/or imperial powers controlled oil either directly or through control of oil producing countries—at times, even by military force. But that pattern of imperialist exploitation of global markets and resources has changed now. Most of the current theories of imperialism and hegemony that continue invoking that old pattern of big oil behavior tend to suffer from an ahistorical perspective. Today, even physically occupying and controlling another country’s oil fields will not necessarily be beneficial to oil interests. Not only will military adventures place the operations of current energy projects at jeopardy, but they will also make the future plans precarious and unpredictable. Big oil interests, of course,know this; and that’s why they did not countenance the war on Iraq: "The big oil companies were not enthusiastic about the Iraqi war," says Fareed Mohamedi of PFC Energy, an energy consultancy firm based in Washington D.C. that advises petroleum firms. "Corporations like Exxon-Mobil and Chevron-Texaco want stability, and this is not what Bush is providing in Iraq and the Gulf region," adds Mohamedi.
During the past few decades, major oil companies have consistently opposed U.S. policies and military threats against countries like Iran, Iraq, and Libya. They have, indeed, time and again, lobbied U.S. foreign policy makers for the establishment of peaceful relations and diplomatic rapprochement with those countries. The Iran-Libya Sanction Act of 1996 (ILSA) is a strong testament to the fact that oil companies nowadays view wars, economic sanctions, and international political tensions as harmful to their long-term business interests and, accordingly, strive for peace, not war, in international relations.
In May of 1997, for example, major U.S. oil companies such as Conoco, Exxon, Atlantic Richfield, and Occidental Petroleum joined other non-military U.S. transnational corporations to create an anti-sanction coalition. Earlier that same year Conoco’s Chief Executive Archie Dunham publicly took a stance against unilateral U.S. sanctions by stating that “U.S. companies, not rogue regimes, are the ones that suffer when the United States imposes economic sanctions.” Texaco officials have also argued that the U.S. can be more effective in bringing about change in other countries by allowing U.S. companies to do business with those countries instead of imposing economic sanctions that tend to be counterproductive...
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber...r.com/node/
7573
Isabella | 07.28.08 - 8:13 am
Isabella, it seems you have a personal understanding of African politics and history.
My understanding of (at least) two Africans is in conflict.
I've read about Idi Amin and Mugabe. Are those guys heroes or devils?
In Mugabe's case, there are stories linking him to Mossad. However, the largest Islamic group in America, that is not a tool or corruption of Zionism, proclaims Mugabe as an African hero. I think I've heard similar contradictions regarding Amin.
What's your perspective on those guys?
ALSO - has anyone else noticed that the word for Israeli Intelligence, "Mossad", is always marked as incorrectly spelled (at least with Mozilla's spell check engine) - for a word that is common to this moment and spelled correctly - WHY IS IT ALWAYS UNDERLINED RED?!
Emptiness.
Isabella | 07.28.08 - 8:24 am
Very fascinating; the number Zero. Let us know what you find out, Isabella. Zero is the number that represents "emptiness" YET it embraces all other numbers...negative and positive Infinitely. Wow. I love math.
Isabella, What do you think about the bombings in India and Turkey yesterday? Doesn't that seem odd, maybe like a mossad behind it? That was what I thought of when I read these. I am tempted to once again give AIPAC a call. Maybe the ADL. I want to see what they say to me.
Here are some sick articles:
http://www.aipac.org/
Here is link to phone numbers for AIPAC:
http://www.aipac.org/Contact_Us/...ct_Us/
index.asp
I consider john hagee to be the biggest mouth piece for the israeli lobby conveying their propaganda to christian Amerikkka. This walking gasbag should be silenced by any means necessary. Christianity is firmly in the clutches of the anti-christ system. No need to wage war against people who have already submit to global tyranny.
AIPAC NATIONAL SUMMIT 2008:
http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC.../
index_7571.asp
People should get out and Picket!!
Event Dates 10/26/2008 - 10/27/2008,
12:00 AM - 12:00 AM Central TimeEvent Location Chicago, IL Event Registration Click here Contact Info summit@aipac.org
202-639-5363 Hotel Reservations Online: Click here
By Phone: 1-877-242-2558
Ann Coulter and the Neo-Christian rights handi-work:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20080...church_shooting
""It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said at a news conference."
"The Unitarian-Universalist church promotes progressive social work, including advocacy of women and gay rights. The Knoxville congregation also has provided sanctuary for political refugees, fed the homeless and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, according to its Web site."
Killing people because he did not agree with their political views!!
Lawrence Boxall
Now tell us
( your version )
WHY WHY WHY
Hitler specially prosecuted the Jews
I wish you have open mind to know the answer
WHEN YOU SEE IT
Few illogical contradictions you stated such as
(However, even if 99% of Jews have been conned into believing in Zionism as a just enterprise and thus voice unconditional support for Israel, I still think it is wrong to rant against Jews as a group as some do here. [Though I must hasten to add that I don't believe unconditional Jewish support for Israel is even near 50% of North American Jews])
(I also believe that Hezbollah and Hamas should respect international law (as everyone should) and not contravene the Geneva Conventions while exercising their right to resist, even if Israel is guilty of offences against international law. The fact that the United States has flagrantly ignored its treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions is tragic in terms of the damage this has done to global respect for international law. The main thrust of my point is that the crimes of my enemy are not a valid justification for my crimes.)
That LAST sentence you wrote is THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCKWITS
(The main thrust of my point is that the crimes of my enemy are not a valid justification for my crimes.)
These words you confess that you believe are:
Words of a Bully
Like you saying
Respect the law little boy or else I‘ll break your neck, never you mind,
As all I do or think to do is Lawful
Is that what the Yanks are telling all Nations to do?
Respect the UN laws decisions... while she was except and it’s wayward bastard child not restricted by any Law or Laws
When did israHell abide by any moral or international Law or whatever law you care to mention?
What you expect (Hezbollah and Hamas should respect international law)
If that was the case
Their ass will be History by now
Good for the goose, not so great for the gander
WE All say
Correction (sorry)
It is exempt not except, as it is incorrectly typed in my post above
Change We Can Believe In
they are all ashkenazi zionist jew neocons and / or their enablers
a photo says a thousand words - they have him !! HOW THEY DO IT - HOW SOMEONE CAN BE SO UTTERLY TOTALLY HAD - I'LL NEVER KNOW
this isn't ideologically moving from left to just left of right or of left to neutral territory - this is an about face !!
http://judicial-inc.biz/
87Jerusa...salem_obama.htm
this is what caught my eye - what i've come to suspect !!
scroll to 15th or 16th photo
This Is What Israel Wants
They want an attack and occupation of Iran, and not because of supposed nuclear weapons, but because of the giant oil fields.
connivers that they are :
they feign suspicion - they feign vulnerability
left of centre - centre being neutral
this is moving ideologically moving from left to far right
pippi
What a great link
Did you check the link under
( Another Despicable Character ) ?
http://tinyurl.com/5qfysv
if having killed over a million people and turning countries into rubble do not motivate us sheople in overthrowing their govt and / or federal reserve
might this
http://www.presstv.ir/
detail.asp...ctionid=3510203
US to face $490b budget deficit next year
Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:01:16
White House spokeswoman Dana Perino
The White House new estimate shows the US will face a record $490 billion budget deficit in the next fiscal year, a senior official says.
do you remember viewing the overthrowing of the govt in Georgia !! marching into their govt building and physically overthrowing and throwing out those supposedly representing them
too bad those brave people were led by us uk isr supported now turned dictator Mikhail Saakashvili
to start fresh - that is what needs to happen here
To Lawrence Boxall You have addressed a response to me and then include in that response the statement: “…it is wrong to condemn Jews for being Jews”. What does that generality have to do with anything that I have written?
My criticism has been specific and factual---it is in opposition to the strategic objectives and strategic activities of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government. What does that criticism have to do with “all Jews”?
It is, of course, obvious that those that control the reigns of government --- control what are essentially all Jewish armed forces, all Jewish judicial system, all Jewish police forces and all Jewish control of all the instruments of life including the water, the electricity, the food supply, and control and censor the information provided to external sources--- are indeed acting on behalf of the whole of the Jewish people in Israel.
The fact that there are, indeed, those Jewish people in Israel and elsewhere that are in opposition to these powerful Jewish Zionist, Christian Zionist forces as they have proceeded, unabated for sixty odd years, in pursuit of their strategic objective to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan to recreate the Eretz Israel described in the biblical tales is only a testament to the power and the control that they have over the whole of the Jewish people.
That is equally true in the United States where there are American people that are opposed to the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and opposed to the support of the Israeli invasion and absorption of the Palestine beyond the 1947-48 internationally recognized border and yet the Bush./Cheney neocon cabal led United States government is acting on behalf of the whole of American people in the unabated slaughter of innocents
You introduce the shibboleth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a means of altering the facts regarding the repeatedly stated objectives of the Jewish Zionists, Christian Zionists to recreate the Eretz Israel of the biblical tales .Nor does it alter the clearly stated strategic objectives of the Project for A New American Century’s REBUILDING AMERICA’S DEFENSES or the clearly stated objectives of THE STRATEGY TO SECURE THE REALM published by the neocon cabal.
You also make the point that “Though I must hasten to add that I don't believe unconditional Jewish support for Israel is even near 50% of North American Jews”. It is a matter that is totally irrelevant (whether your conjecture is true or not) to the fact that the Organization of the Presidents of the Jewish organizations in the United States (there are 52 such organizations) have unequivocally supported the Jewish Zionist led Israeli governments strategic objectives and they control the organizational apparatus and outlets of the expressions of Jewish opinion in the United States. Voices such as the tiny organizations as the JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE amount to a leaf in a windstorm.
Finally, your statement, “I don't think ranting against the Talmud and religion serves any purpose and often descends into Xenophobia with all the dangers that are consequent to that.” has nothing at all to do with anything that I have written.
I must say, however, that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of religions in the world and they each rant against each other. That is why they are separate religions. They essentially continually nail their objections rhetorically on to one another’s door in the same way that Martin Luther nailed his objections on to the door of the Catholic Church. If you think that is absurd, listen or read, for example, to Christian Zionist John Hagee’s references to the Pope.
Lawrence Boxall
Just in case you miss the point in the post
Had you not committed a crime on the so you called your enemy... your so call enemy got no alternative but to respond for self preservation /self defence (deemed Lawful)
So do not Condon the crime of your enemy .they are only the answer to your crime ( in the first place ) breaking the peace , any crime your enemy commit , is justify in repulsing your crime ..he wouldn’t have done a crime had you not initiated a crime
Therefore the sentence as stated (THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCKWITS)
Cat,
Good comments and very scary. Maybe now you will begin to understand why I am against religion. Especially the violent, cultish kind. The evil ways of Bush and Cheney is a given and a no brainer of course.
But the religious thing, especially in America is dangerous. The Fundamentalists are supporters of Bush to the core. It is a brainwashing affair to some degree, I think - and a controller. It is no wonder the Republicans cater to them at every convenience.
I have tried to explain the dangers of religion and you have confirmed these results for me, but, alas, no one is listening - and the country is proceeding directly to destroy itself and all of the others that are associated with it.
P.S. If you get abducted watch the waterboarding, I hear it is pretty effective. If we do no hear from you in a week or so we will send out a search party. P.S. I live in Canada and it is still a pretty decent country....so far... Good Luck.
Enemies torch Islam and Arabia because they despise Islam and Arabia. What shocks my wits and burns my heart is that rich Arabs, Arab traitors and Arab leaders are fueling this fire on orders by George W. Bush. It is obvious by all measures and counts, United States and Israel are not fighting terrorism. Palestinians fight with small arms to regain their dignity and rights. Iraqis fight to liberate their country and protect their daughters, wives and mothers from being raped by U.S. maniac soldiers. Afghanis are also fighting to liberate their country and restore their dignity.
The Middle East happens to be the treasure up for grab by murderers and thieves. George W. Bush and his thuds are determined to kill and rob Arabs and Muslims as long as Arab and Muslim traitors exit in the region.
The character of the Middle East population has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. An Arab today can be profiled as a traitor, a coward or a walking veggie. Whether these labels are accurate and justified remains to be seen. If Arabia could emerge from its horrific plight, only then we can talk about the courage of the few Arabs and Muslims. I spent 45 years outside my birthplace, but my heart and soul remain glued to my birthright. I am sad for what is happening to a beautiful religion; I am sad Arabia is being destroyed by Zionist criminals and local traitors. Most of my literary colleagues are not the decent writers and journalists anymore. Truth to them is what United States and Israel want to hear. If the Holy Prophets had any ideas about the Arabs they left behind were going to betray them, they would have begged Allah to relocate Arabia to another planet. Arabia is not only the last hope for humanity. Arabia is a universal jewel that is sadly inhabited by a bunch of morons who don’t know the difference between bullet holes and fire crackers. Of course, this type of ignorance on the part of Arabs and Muslims makes George W. Bush and Ariel Sharon’s killing frenzy that much easier.
Several centuries ago, the Crusaders marched to the Holly Region, crushed and killed; stole and destroyed. They eventually retreated in a partial defeat. In the late 19th century, the Zionist organization with help from Christian extremists devised a plan to occupy Palestine, then kill or dispose its population into neighboring Arab countries. Their plan was successful; Israel was established and legitimized by most countries. It is worth noting that all those countries who affixed their signature on the document that legitimized the creation of Israel on literarily stolen land must recognize they have the blood of millions of Palestinians and thousands of Israelis on their hands. I make reference to the killed Jews because the West engaged them in the region’s conflict to get rid of them. The West assumed that by replacing Palestine with the State of Israel, they can relieve themselves from the guilt that resulted from the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe. Throughout history before the occupation of Palestine, Arabs and Jews had differences you find amongst any race, but never to the extent major wars were waged. In fact, Jews are technically Semite Arabs who spoke Hebrew like the many other tribes who lived in the Arab Peninsula and spoke different languages other than Arabic. I have no trouble with Arabs and Jews living side by side, not only in Palestine, but throughout the Arab world. I do, however, have serious problem with expulsion of more than 7 million Palestinians just so an accommodation was made to Jews from around the world. I also support the idea of one state for both people that can be run and managed under true democratic system, and nothing at all like the U.S. or the British democracies. Palestine is large enough to support the present population of both people, but under one condition: All Palestinians who wish to return to their homes and properties must not be denied this right. Those who do not wish to return must receive compensation for the loss of their properties, loss of statehood, loss of dignity and loss of family unity.
Fifty years have passed; the Palestinian population of more than seven millions still live in camps, under occupation, with a majority has taken refuge in Europe, North America and Africa. What is important to remember that Israel has always used some kind of reversed psychology to trick and deceive world opinion. Yes Jews had suffered under the rule of Hitler. Yes they felt astronomical amount of pain and grief; they suffered in human lives; they suffered in loss of dignity and self-worth. Today, they inflict on Palestinians and on Iraqis with the help of their man in Washington far worse pain and losses than they endured. On one hand, Israel uses the pretext that Arabs are prepared to throw Jews into the sea while Palestinians blow themselves up to kill innocent people.
The later part is true and is a byproduct of the severe oppression Palestinians receive at the barrels of Israeli’s tanks and gun ships. Israel and United States motivate suicide bombers by exerting unbearable oppression; by depriving Palestinians from basic human necessities. Palestinians can’t bring a family to this world and be assured they can live to see them graduate from college; Palestinian’s children do not have the right to receive normal schooling; cannot have the right to eat and sleep well. Palestinian parents spend more time at cemeteries than they spend around a diner table. If George W. Bush cannot see this; George W. Bush is the biggest criminal to have ever walked the planet.
Arabs and Moslems account for nearly ¼ of the human family. They possess high IQ of human intelligence; they possess most of the world wealth and resources; Afro/Arabia is centrally placed in the bosom of the earth. You cannot trade North, South, East or West without involving the Holy Region. Our planet’s heart and blood veins function only when Arabia is living in peace. Israel and United States of America hold the key for peace; a key they refuse to use; they prefer to shed blood of Arabs and Muslims. There is no doubt anymore. Israel and United States have waged a war against Arabs and Muslims. They denounce Islam because Islam professes justice and equality for all mankind. They denounce Islam because Islam holds the truth about their false prophecies and ideologies. They denounce Islam because Islam is pro poor and anti capitalist greed. They denounce Islam because Islam is the extension of true Judaism and Christianity. Falsehood will never win over the truth. United States and Israel could enjoy decades and maybe centuries of oppressing and killing others, but they cannot do this for ever. Both countries have already planted the darkest, saddest and most horrifying seeds humanity will remember in vain well beyond eternity.
Arab and Muslim leaders are well aware of this war, but they prefer to believe United States and Israel are fighting Arab and Muslim fanatics. If this is a fact, then why is United States killing children in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why is Israel killing Palestinian children and destroying their homes? Israel and Untied States protect the present Arab and Muslim regimes to continue their killing frenzy. What troubles me the most is that wealthy Arabs are more Americanized than Americans themselves. Arabia to them is a massive cow they milk for money -- money they hoard in U.S. and European banks.
To truly assess the plight of Arabs and Muslims, one can’t ignore the fact that Arab and Muslim leaders first and foremost are responsible for mass crimes committed by Israel and United States against innocent Arabs and Muslims. They are responsible for depressing the advancement of Arab and Muslim population by stealing the region’s wealth and resources. Of course United States uses this massive wealth and resources to sustain economic prosperity and arm Israel with the most sophisticated weaponries. Israel returns its gratitude by guaranteeing United States the continuation of killing more Arabs and more Muslims.
How did Arab and Muslim Leaders fail their people? European and North American Zionists spent the last two centuries developing plots and schemes to occupy Arab and Muslim lands while Arab leaders were busy abusing population and stealing wealth and resources that factually belonged to the people. The Zionists could have not dreamt of a better outcome. Manipulation of the Arab character through black mail and bribe became the best weapon. Zionists and Right Wing Christians often brag about this weapon and how easy it is to us on Arabs and Muslims.
It is credible to say that more than 90% of Arabs and Muslims have buried their conscience long before I was born. They do not understand the true meaning of dignity and honor. They represent the veggie group. Certainly, they are not the ones who can defend Islam and Arabia! Right minded Canadians, Americans and Europeans, including faithful Jews are the ones who can save Islam and Arabia; they are the ones who can educate their governments and leaders about the crimes committed by Sharon, Bush and Blair. They are the ones we need to write to and write about. Since Islam is the true religion of all mankind, we need to talk to civilized honest people. Western and North American newspapers, TV channels and Web sites, controlled by the Zionist Lobby, can no longer stretch lies and turn them into truth to win public opinion. Humanity is for ever indebted to those who exposed George W. Bush, Abu Ghraib Prison’s crimes, Sharon and Blair’s crimes.
Angel Gabriel--now another AKA--the last word.
Each time you open your mouth, you dig yourself deeper into your own guagmire.
Now according to you, this has become a forum of hatred. And do you sir honestly think that you have EVER been a voice for reason, and good honest discussion here?
Just read your contributions above. It is like you are some hysterical kid desperately in need of your Ritalin. You have and continue to contribute NOTHING, nada, zero, zilch, but belligerence...and your arrogance prevents you from seeing that. Big hat, no cattle. Sad, truly sad.
Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa,
Dominus Vobiscum - Et cum Spiri tutu-o.
Apologize, or make excuses for your hatred all you want but the list pulls you into the spotlight and brands you for your cyber life - like a tat from Aushwitz.
Hate is hate, no matter if it's perpetrated through actions or words the outcomes are the same.
Hmm - I wonder how many "new names" we'll see here once the dust has settled from this thread?
Just like "Dragnet" "The names were changed to protect the errrr aaaa ???
Flutter flutter
PS - excellent post Liz! You sure dumped a tanker of water on the Bigot Brigade, and it obviously got their attention. The silence afterward was deafening!
Oh sit on it SuZZZZan - get over yourself. Turn on some Falwell re-runs and take some deep breaths!
carl baydala,
Not all churches are violent, Carl. Unitarian Universalist churches are viciously attacked by the Christian Right all the time...mostly verbally. I have been in this church before and they are very politically aware and when I lived in Ellensburg, they were the ONLY people in town demonstrating against the Iraq Invasion; Them and the Quakers. The shooter attacked this church for its political views.
I think your comment was meant to be sarcastic? And I think you are confused.
Nahida--Thank you for your comment and I truly do have compassion for the rights of Palestinian people. Plaese read again my ENTIRE message to Lexemar, and read the last paragraph. I asked him to look beyond being simply a Jewish man, but a man who stands to injustice everywhere--and that might start by looking in his backyard and seeing the suffering of the Palestinian people.
My intention was/is NOT to offend either Lexemar or you.
To Mr. Carlotti,
I am not arguing with what you say about Israel or the Zionist agenda.
I am arguing with what you seem to be claiming that I am saying. I agree that your criticisms of Israel are specific and factual and that you are not attacking all Jews.
However many others here are attacking all Jews, some even going back 3000 years in history to prove that there is an inherently evil core to Judaism or a suspect DNA involved in Israel's crimes against humanity. It is against these attitudes that I am addressing myself not your factual accounts of what has transpired with relation to the Zionist colonization of Palestine.
I don't believe there is a world-wide Jewish conspiracy and I don't believe that Jews control the financial world just because of the size of the Rothchild financial holdings or the amount of money the Rothchilds donated to the Zionists.
All this stuff that these people are asking me to read? In my 60 years I have read a representative sampling of all of this stuff and in my opinion its popularity is indicative of a failure in the education system to teach critical thinking. Like the media and the advertising industry, education seems, by and large, to focus on presenting ruling class ideology instead of teaching children to think critically about the world.
I agree that it has long been the stated aim of the Zionists to eventually take over every single square inch of Palestine and that they only agreed to the UN Partition of Palestine as a stepping stone to their eventual goal. I also agree that the Zionists and the Israeli government claim to speak on behalf of all Jews everywhere on Earth, and that my local B'nai Brith here in Canada claims to speak and act on behalf of every Jew in Canada. The point is that that is their claim and it is not reality. No ethnic group, and certainly not the Jews, enjoys unanimity in outlook. I know that and you know that and yet there is still all of this dangerous talk on this comments page about an international financial conspiracy of Jews against the rest of the world hell bent on destroying the world. You have to forgive me but I can't help it if this brings to mind the Protocols, which were proved to be a forgery by a South African court in the 1930 and yet they are still being published and circulated by the impressionable.
I agree with your statement:
"Finally, your statement, “I don't think ranting against the Talmud and religion serves any purpose and often descends into Xenophobia with all the dangers that are consequent to that.” has nothing at all to do with anything that I have written." but I was trying to explain why I was making the statements you criticized in an earlier post to which I was responding.
There is no material difference between us in terms of an historical perspective of what happened in Palestine or what is happening now, but I don't like the Judeophobia that I see on this page. What scares me about it is as follows:
In the middle ages, the ruling classes scapegoated the Jews to deflect the anger of the lower classes from their rulers. In a devastated Germany after WWI, the communist inspired working class uprising was brutally crushed and Jews, homosexuals and Communists were scapegoated for all the ills that Germany suffered. Kristalnacht is not a figment of Zionist propaganda though it was certainly a gift to Zionist propaganda. The scapegoating of Jews lead to the horrors of the holocaust.
Now we are in very unstable economic times once more and we shall have to face it with the added complication of the breakdown of global ecosystems and the extremely damaging weather conditions resulting from global warming. When things got really tough in Germany after WWI the systemic response was a descent into fascism with devastating consequences for all of Germany.
Now as we face a similar threat of a severe breakdown in the global economy we can respond with scapegoating and calls for vengeance, like that misguided fellow above who wants to bomb Israel off the face of the Earth, or we can attempt to turn from the competitive system that controls the world today to a co-operative system that is universalist in perspective.
You see, Mr Carlotti, you seem to be assuming that I am an apologist for the Zionist when I am not. I just believe that oppression is wrong irrespective of who the victim is or who the oppressor is. Wars of conquest and oppressive regimes have been going on for far longer than a Jewish identity has existed and that is the problem that needs attention. Yet there are comments here (and I don't mean yours) that suggest everything that is going wrong with the world is a consequence of the Jews. The oppression of the Palestinian People by the Israeli state is one of the problems I am happy to join you in struggle against. There is also the problem in my own country of the oppression of the First Nations which has been going on since Europeans first arrived in the Americas that I am morally obliged to address. and there is also a new problem of Islamophobia in my country that needs to be addressed. Then there is the problem of "guest" workers from the Philippines and Mexico that is opening a new chapter of oppression in my country's chequered history, not to mention the Punjabi speaking farm workers in my province of British Columbia who are denied the protection of the Worker's Compensation Board that all the rest of the workers in the province enjoy. And don't even get me started on the neoliberal privatization that has helped to enrich a tiny minority in my province and plunged many into homelessness. To blame the Jews for all these problems is just another red herring and totally counter-productive.
To raymond /anonymous 23
I'm not sure what your point is but you seem to be suggesting that if my enemy is committing crimes against me then I am entitled to commit crimes against her. I don't agree with you. I prefer the Rule of Law to the law of the jungle.
If we do no hear from you in a week or so we will send out a search party. P.S. I live in Canada and it is still a pretty decent countrycarl baydala | Homepage | 07.28.08 - 12:56 pm
What is your phone number?
carl baydala,
Did you watch this? I left it above. Its very good. You will like it:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/
tal...of_insight.html
bye, carl.
Falwell re-runs..LOLOLOL. How little you actually know. Keep digging Mr. "Beyond Reproach"
what shit
xzp
jews drug money
jews child porn
jews this jews that
what is the context
why jews why the word jews
those who commit crimes come from countries
they have nationalities
in the news they say a british or iranian or american was arrested for this or that
why use the WORD JEW
YOU NEVER SEE A HEADLINE SAYING ,A CATHOLIC WAS ARRESTED FOR HOMICIDE OR A MOSLEM FOR DRUG RUNNING
PEOPLE COMMIT CRIMES REGARDLESS OF THEIR RELIGION BUT WHY POST
JEWS ARE INTO DRUG RUNNING
WHY SLANDER A RELIGION
XZP WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME
isabella
"I was interrogated by the Boss - the Mossad of South AFrica at the time and I can assure you it was very frightening"
THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT MANY JEWS SUPPORTED THE ANTI-APARTHEID MOVEMENT IN SOUTH AFRICA AND WERE JAILED FOR IT
The Iranian government constantly demonstrates its willingness to use terror even against its own people. This week, 29 common criminals were hung at a rare mass execution. Most of these guys were involved with drugs. Still in the planning stages is another mass execution, where eight women and one man will be stoned to death for adultery.
India is building an Advanced Amphibious Warfare School near the port city of Kakinada, on the north east coast. The new school will be part of facility that will include a Fleet Support Base, which will improve security for the offshore Krishna-Godavri natural gas fields. Currently, India has about a thousand Marine Commandos, and several major amphibious ships (including a 17,000 American LPD, the former USS Trenton).
India is building naval bases on its east coast, and developing its amphibious capabilities to counter Chinese moves into the Indian Ocean. Although China denies any such intentions, China is dependent on oil, moved via the Indian Ocean from the Persian Gulf, as well as growing trade with Africa. China apparently does not want so much of its economy dependent on the good will of the Indian Navy.
@ Lawrence Boxall (07.28.08 - 2.13pm):
Very well reasoned and reasonable post. One thing you and others may not know - the Jewish banker Max Warburg, the American Jewish Commitee and the US B'nai B'rith gave their blessing to the 'Hitler Project', and the two organisations issued a joint statement, counselling 'that no American boycott against Germany be encouraged,' and advising 'that nofurther mass meetings be held or similar forms of agitation be employed' (March 31st, 1933); also, Prescott Bush (incumbent's grandfather) was a director of a Nazi front bank in the US, which is where the dynasty began to ammass their wealth (Information from Webster Tarpley's and Anton Chaitkin's book, 'George Bush - The Unauthorised Biography').
Paul Barbara, London UK
RE: Anonymous | 07.28.08 - 2:53 pm
"XZP WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME"
In your posts, you attempt to be an intimidating bully, but your strategems-tactics are a little too obvious - so your vituperations and ad hominem attacks are not effective.
You've got a lot of nerve asking me my real name when you post as "Anonymous".
But since you insist, here's my real name:
Ben Dover
Oh, and provided herewith are the websites demonstrating Jewish involvement in Child Porn, Drug Running, and Money Laundering.
Jews Drug running are engaging in money laundering:
http://globheu.blogspot.com/
2006...fghanistan.html
(David Sassoon - Jewish. Does his name ring a bell?)
As vile and despicable as this is, it seems as though child pedophilia and child abduction perpetrators are often Jewish:
http://judicial-inc.biz/marc_dutroux.htm
http://www.jabpage.org/posts/rus...s/
russjews.html
Now, let's see you refute-contraindicate these sites with proof that Jews are not involved in these illegal activities. In other words, and I mean this with all due respect, post your verfiable sources, or get quiet.
Jews - in their own words: How They Not Only Run the Porn Industry, but Use Porn as a Weapon Against Gentiles-Christians:
Jewish Professor - Nathan Abrams from Aberdeen University-UK - Boasts How Jews Use Porn as a Weapon Against Gentiles:
http://albasheer.wordpress.com/2...ainst-gentiles/
Cheers!
But since you insist, here's my real name:
Ben Dover
Cheers!
xzp | 07.28.08 - 4:51 pm |
Sorry, I used that one already - hate boy, along with Ben Dover-stein, and don't try and use Eileen Dover either as it's on my copy-righted list of moniker's. Just trying to keep up with atheo and his many disguises is a tough business. Flutter flutter
cheers and peace!
Lawrence Boxall
you said
( I'm not sure what your point is but you seem to be suggesting that if my enemy is committing crimes against me then I am entitled to commit crimes against her. I don't agree with you. I prefer the Rule of Law to the law of the jungle. )
Sorry that you never did
I will explain, but you got to look at it from different prospective..!
I am off to work, late already
But I will explain later
Take in mind that I am a Pacifist, and try my best to engage Logic at all level of human conduct
Ask yourself in mean time that question
What constitute a crime in your eyes?
And what is a crime? Is crime a variable (changing) or constant (what is a crime today is not a crime tomorrow?)
Is there a stereotype to people committing crime or is everybody capable of committing a crime?)
What is the difference between crime, felony, misdemeanour, or similarity?
Do you think that all lawyers are criminals?
Do you think all politicians are too?
Do you think all soldiers are?
How you differentiate from the rule of the jungle, rule of Law rule of, rule of religion ,rule of humanity rule of Logic ,rule of Love etc
" Zero could hardly be more important and Zero was found or brought into use for Humanity by the Arabs I think?
Zero Richard! That should make your eyes light up - zero. Infinity. And that is why science will never get a handle on Reality.
Emptiness".
Isabella | 07.28.08 - 8:24 am |
Again I have to refute that the origins of zero, which was later transferred and coined into decimilisation, came from the Arabs. It was purely Indian by nature, which decimilisation stemmed from, where zero played a significant part to mathematics. Besides zero was always important in Vedic principles, where the wheel originated from.
Also it has spiritual value too, as emptiness and nothingness reveal that there is tremondous energy in those entities, where creation took place. Similar to when psychological thought, if absent, there is a vast void with the burst of deep subtle energy, which cannot be operated/caught/learnt by psych thought, and therein lies the endless and without beginning phenomena (which human thought cannot touch nor comphrehend, due to the contimination and damage to psyche by psychological thought)
Enough said, I am at the moment studying and researching the VIMANAS (do a google search, and this will astound you further into how advanced the VEDAS really were) There are authors a plenty from the globe, who verify specifically of its Indian origin.
Micheal Cremo & Richard Johnson have highlighted the encryptic verses found in the Vedas in Forbidden Archeology which makes Charles Darwin and many others from the school of education who spouted that 'the world was flat' theory was totally incorrect about the evolution of the species.
Like I stated earlier, the Vedas were purely Indian by nature (The Greeks named India during or just before their short lived conquest: But the true name of India: was Araybath or something very similar, meaning the original land of the Aryans Let me explain before nutters jump into the boiling water of conclusions, NO its not what Hitler did under that name, besides he changed aryanism to suit the skin and hair cosmetics to build a different species of superman; an idea borrowed from Neitscke)
The true meaning of the word Aryan is men of noble intentions and deeds, and it encompassed all people or colors and ethnicity; even people of mongolian descent were regarded as Aryan for the noble deeds to help the community without payments.
In the books of the Mahabharata and the Bhagvat Gita, Sri Lanka and India were joined by a man made bridge, where this bridge can still be seen via satellite. Radio Carbon dated testing revealed this age to be about 1.25 MILLIONS Old. Again from Vedic texts, which revealed that there was trade between China, the next oldest civilisation on earth. And these 2 Ancient civilisation really outdates Mesopotamia, which in terms is relatively new. Besides Mesopotamia were highly influenced by the Vedas, so were the Chinese, Greek, Egyptian, Incas and Mayan civilisation. Space technology were at the highest forms in prior to the Indus Valley civilisation, which was later destroyed (typical of mankind: havent changed an iota: still at it: therefore my conclusion and that of many others that PSYCHOLOGICAL THOUGHT is the real culprit, which manifests itself in primitive men)
Are you aware that some parts of the Middle East, and also including the whole surroundings of the Indus Valley which stretched over a large area, were decimated by nuclear weapons ?
And that this was far more superior to the ones we have today; the evidence is on the wall, when radiation is still being emitted to this very day. Even objects are found all around the world which cannot be aligned with today's technology.
My research is still ongoing, but the starting point is that it came from what we know as ANCIENT INDIA, which socrates and plato pointed out to that direction. There are too many links out there, that is if your interested in your study and research, but although I appreciate that the Arabs did contribute to society, sadly, it was not their innovation. They did however add a lot to what was already in place, essentially nutured by trading, these are also recorded in the Vedas.
To Laurence again,
"The scapegoating of Jews lead to the horrors of the holocaust"
So has the scapegoating of Muslims, darkies, and people of different races has also led to innumerable pains and sufferings, leading to deaths and deaths by the millions....Run by the right wing controlled jewish Media.
Pray tell me what lesson did they learn from the holocaust, which you havent answered my previous comment about this subject ? So pick on Muslims heh ! soon after experiencing vitriolic hatred. It just doesnt make sense, when you BAN and JAIL people from talking about the holocaust. Get a handle lawrence of Israel, not one person has the guts to tell us the truth about the holocaust, other than if we enter this subject, we are secretly neo nazis or demented crackpots, who should toe the line to the fraudelent media's version, who just happened to be controlled by the right wing jewish zionists. Strange isnt it ?
Tell me Laurence, why is the need to control the following ?
The World wide banking Industry
The child pornography, call girl prostitution, and rent boy rackets.
The need to control the MASS MEDIA
the control of the political system, where politicians pay homage to Israel and their gangsters
the control of the education system
the control of the armed forces in the following countries: US UK OZ Europe
The control of pharmacy and its so called legal and illegal drug manufacturing
The policing of countries to suit the zionist agenda
Employment Industries
the illegal WW1 WW2 and destabilisation of South Americas and now the Middle East.
Importantly the running and control of the colonies under Imperial Britain, France, Holland and Spain, whom you conveniently blame the goys for this...can you remember Disraeli and all those Carpet baggers in Europe, whispering in the ears of how to make a fortune the new world which they committed genocide in 90 million +.
And I can list many many more... OR should we just ignore this as another episode in history ?
However if you state that others were doing it in the past, does it give a legal license for zionists to use this strategy to kill, genocide, rape and plunder ? By pointing out others, you are legitimising the illegalities with mere lipservice saying that are merely a small faction therein, and need a slap on their wrists.
By the sounds of it you appear to subtly back this solid corrupt empire which has its monopoly spreading like a cancer, and yet on the other hand you cannot differentiate that it takes ultimate power to RULE, as I mention these strategies, one gets a clear picture. It is you sir, sadly, I may say that dont have the clear picture. Every strategist will tell you this...It is pure common sense. Again, judging from your statement, I know you mean well, but please face the facts and call a spade a spade, even though it hurts your sensitivity...
Not being one to "dis" an angel, I feel that Angel Gabriel may have a good point and is courageous enough to make it amidst the crowds at ICH.
Angel Gabriel, The last word, you are within your rights to read me the riot act concerning my posts.I'me and if you don't like me , you are free to say so. I'm a moderate Christian, married with to grown sons, and worh as a plasterer and carpenter and have no money in the bank. I;m an asshole, as you have allready established.
You are repulsed by my writing, i see, well, thats the breaks for me, I guess, but I will admit to having some hurt feelings about this. I hurt peoples feelings every day when I write my posts concerning what I feel is wrong with Israeli hard line zionism. These people have undertaken the work of erasing Palestine and vetting US candidates for public office,which irks me and makes me feel like an outcast in my own nation.
I am not, however one who hates people, any people. I disrespect those who disrespect others and are so sure they are always right that they could care less who they hurt.
Self righteousness pisses me off also, and I see some very self righteous murderers and assholes in the IDF, whom i attack regularly for their acts of cowardice, but I don't hate them, they were once cute little kids who were forced into the IDF and became one of the crowd of denigrators of Palestinians.
I once was blind, but now I see that Israel is a deviously led nation whose people, like americans and muself, don't all agree with the policies of their IDF or civilian leadership, so I don't hate them either, in fact ,I love them, and i also love the Angel Gabriel, whom I am quite familiar with from past experience. I once bowed down to worship Gabriel and was told, do it not, worship God, which is a sign of a good angel, so don't tarnish the name if you want to bare the wings.
Love, Angel Gabriel, is what I'm about, how about you, do you like love aslo? Love is a great way to solve terrible problems for anyone, even Angels. When faced with the devil's bullshit, Micheal once said to him, get behind me,and that's all it took to make this menace of mankind split. So, we can see that no railing accusations are needed to stem the flows of evil, just an order from God to make evil go away.
I have been a regular here at ICH for a few years and always read the posts and love the posters ,even the shills, they were once cute little kids and I love kids.
What we need to clear up is not so much the rhetoric that inflames hatred, but the rhetoric which is hatred. If we attack evil, we will be hated, so attacking evil inflames hatred. Perhaps we should not attack evil with evil ,thereby creating a cycle of bad feelings which accomplishes nothing. Israel is a tough cookie to break and often seems to be bending until the pressure lets up, then they snap back to their usual deviousness and hatred of Palestine, or perhps not so much hatred as fear.
Angel Gabriel, good on you for standing up for love and sincerity and not letting up until you see the light shining in the dark places you so dispise, or shall we say dislike?
You and I have that in common, we like to see love everywhere we go, this is what a good angel brings sometimes, but not always, my dear friend Gabriel.
Angels have been called on many times to stop evil in it's tracks, as Micheal did, good on him, but we also know that angels are entrusted with the work of God, whatever it is and need to do God's will, no matter what it is, kind of like a good soldier , following orders. I'm not an angel, nor Jesus, not a disciple or a prophet, i'm a carpenter with no better things to do than to spew hatred of evil, but perhaps I can take a lesson from a real angel, like you and lighten up a little on the bombastic rhetoric and show some love for Jews and Israel, but when I do this they mistake kindness for weakness, and one thing you might want to know about me is that I'm not weak, I'm kind.
Kindness has always stodd me in good stead with my friends, most of which are Jewish, even Talmudic orthadox, and I love them. What we sometimes talk about are the fine points of the Torah and Talmud,and curiously ,my Jewish friends always leave out the racist parts of the Talmuds rules and mores for True Torah Jews, maybe because they love me also and don't want to hurt my feelings with the thought of me,as a "goy" being lesser than they,as Jews.
I don't have very thin skin anymore after three nervous breakdowns, two strokes and a brain siezure, I'm on meds which regualte my blood pressure now and feeling much better, but still get pretty angry when I get an email from friends in the West Bank or Gaza about IDF beating of kids, which I may have mentioned my love for. But I love all kids, not just Palestinains.
I saw a young Jewish boy in my neighborhood the other day, a son of an aquaintence,on what looked like a fancy new bike. He had streamers on his handlebars, like I used to, had a newspaper basket in the front, my my old paper bike, and was happy to be riding along with a smile on his face. As I said, I love kids and this one touched my heart because he was happy.
Happyness isn't a given for little kids, is it Angel Gabriel, they all aren't always happy, and that makes me sad. Palestinian kids are pretty happy, but deprived of new bikes with streamers becasue they are poorer than most kids. I see quite a few pictures from Gaza these days as I have made some nice friends there who write to me and chat about their troubles with the IDF. Some Palestinains stay pretty distant, and don't seem to trust me, like you. But let me assure you ,Angel Gabriel, I am worthy of trust, from anybody, because I value it so much I seldom knowingly betray trust. I just feel that people are worthy of the benifit of the doubt, even zionist from Israel who have betrayed me, more than once and hurt me badly, but I still love them with unconditional love that I find from God, in whom I believe with all of my heart, even knowing how foolish others often see this blind trust.
I'm feeling a little better Angel Gabriel and I hope you are too, because I love you and love doesn't want to see any body feeling bad or outcast. That's what I like about love, it is always ready to heal troubled hearts, so what about us, can we be friends and show each other a little love? I'm ok with it if you are, or ,to tell you the truth, even if your not, I will still love you,because you were once a cute little kid, and I love kids!
Muslims believe Gabriel to have been the angel who revealed the Qur'an to the prophet Muhammad.
raymond /anonymous 23 | 07.28.08 - 10:56 am | #
really raymond / anonymous - the isr mafia makes me ashamed to be human
how is it possible that we've come to this - they alone lower the goalposts for all humanity - they return us to the dark ages
how can we strive for peace for justice for fairness sharing caring - with the likes of this in our midst ??
how can we even be arguing among ourselves - knowing what it is to know who in their right mind could defend this mafia entity
he state of isr and the state of it - is an abomination an insult to humanity
Jerry,
I don't HATE anybody. I am extremely angry with American's et al.. Any people - who turn their backs on humanity for their own selfish interests, and are content to stand by and watch as the world is crushed under a greed and power driven steam roller - whether it be Jew, Christian, Atheist, Nazi, Neocon, Zionist - whatever colour creed or national origin or "ism".
I am heart-sick that many, if not most of those people come from my homeland.
American's have had so many opportunities to do good in this world, and be a part of the world community - the human race, but the path that has been consistently chosen by our elected leaders, or leading Corporations of rank and file has been one of aggression, prejudice, and outright deceit for personal gain, over the positive contribution that could have been the goal.
I say a lot of things when I'm angry. We all probably do the same thing over frustrations or hurt feelings. But Jerry, actions speak MUCH louder and carry considerably more consequences than words - especially when HATE and PREJUDICE enter the picture.
Unfortunately, my lifetime is now. It started in 1951, so I have seen more things that made me quiver in disgust in my homeland than someone living 100+ years ago would have believed possible! When it comes to attrocities, act's of sheer greed, and bigotry, racism, corruption in both the Public and Private sector's, prejudice for race, creed, and colour, I'm terribly ashamed to say America leads the world. It's beyond a crying shame in my mind, it's disgraceful and makes me ashamed to be an American. When I see how much good could be done in place of this absolute rubbish and incomprehensible madness I cannot help but flame on, and lash out at you.
I know how I was raised and how I was taught that a man's word is his bond. Honesty and win-win have always been a trademark that I have accepted and lived by, and what I see Jerry, coming out of America these days makes me want to puke! Especially when I see this crap on ICH coming from people who know better, and full well that they can collectively make a change to end this ideological greed driven mayhem that is driving the world to ruin through hatred and prejudice for personal gains, or an elitist attitude of exclusionism, yet they look the other way and point a finger of blame, refusing to accept any of the responsibility or accountability.
I hope that gives you some insight to my motives.
I know there are good people there, ones that know the score and try hard to live a good life without greed, prejudice, or hatred, but with a majority that are content to look the other way and seem content because they got their's, still aren't satisfied, and now want it all - that's where the Angel Gabriel in me goes to WAR. I make no apologies for my words, nor for the point in my posts that I intend to continue to stress. There is not any room at all in my world for greed, hatred, and personal gain through deceitful means over the welfare and well being of any other person, country, animal, mineral or vegetable - if you catch my drift.
Peace Jerry
--->Cat 07.27.08 - 8:19 pm
//the majority of humanity has gone along [khazar value system]..They..love it.//
The majority of humanity live outside of the west and are by far little or not infested and infected by khazars. Even in the west, I am not sure who you are looking at. May be 10% of upper echelon of societies who have secured political/monetary/military/corporate power "love" their status of being able to abuse the rest of population. But most people that are among the other 90% and I run into "hate" what they see around themselves, even if they are not part of the population that struggle to make ends meet.
I "hate" to hear a 5-6 yr old little girl helping her mom bag groceries in the supermarket turns to her mom and says : "mom, mom, he didn't know she was lesbian". I froze and was a hairline short of asking her mom how on earth she knows what a lesbian is. Then I realized I knew the answer:tv.
Most of friends I talk to in europe (who by far are less opinionated than I am) lament about moral degradation, corruption in politics, disgusting journalism, torn family fabric in the western societies. They just don't quite know what has gone wrong. The west is on the verge of a historical catastrophic societal breakdown. I am baffled by how you can look the other way.
I'd be glad to take up other issues you brought up regarding more of spiritual world outlook at things, but in a more relevant topic that I can tell what exactly we are critiquing. But what I need to mention is that I must have been real clumsy to let you interpret my words as "Hate was created by any one group..". I unambiguously said the USE of hate as a LABEL to shut people out to circumvent a debate was invented.
Cheers,
Angel Gabriel- You write beautifully when you leave sarcasm and anger out of your posts. I remember the piece that you wrote for me regarding "too many eaters on this planet" for the liking of the rulers of the world following a discussion here a few months ago.
--->lizbitchwitch 07.27.08 - 11:42 pm
Thank you for reading the long post and at least giving your shot to critique it. You seem to have decided what hate and hatred 'must' mean and despite xcruciating elaboration and finally breaking down to a lacerative language, you corner yourself and refuse to quench your anger with a better way to address hatred. I have highlighted some of your comments so hopefully you can "hear yourself".
//You think by discussing hatred we can eliminate it?//
What do you suggest? Elininate the hater? Is that less hateful?
//There is no reason for hatred..//
This unscientific gung ho definition is the reason 'hate' is being used as a baton to shut down debate.
//Hatred breads hatred and discussion thereof, does not bring healing..//
You will have tough time to find a single social worker to agree with you. Hatred breeds hatred only if one uses your street fighters' definition and end up hating the hater (more).
//hatred expressed is not usually expressed emotionally – it is usually expressed physically or with some action..//----//You sound like a bigot//
The reason that your post is both verbally and physically more menacing than mine is exactly coming from how we look at hate. I have accepted your kind of hate which is based on irrational and unjustifiable reason. But you can't accept the other kind which doesn't come with ridiculing and effing left and right.
//To discuss hatred as though it has reason or substance behind it is to encourage it and give it an excuse in others.//
This is exactly what HIV/AIDS social workers in the 80s (and even now) had to be trained to counter the misconceptions and prejudices in people, that whoever has HIV/AIDS must be a despicable person and treating them with respect encourages bad behaviors in others.
//Fear does not bring anger- fear is no reason for hatred!//
Have you ever heard little girls who spend years in fear because of sexual abuse of a man in the family, if not intercepted and helped, will grow up into a woman who hates men and sex? I have even met one who explained to me what she had to go thru before she was ready to get married and have children. (and she was a judaized khazar who was abused by her father.)
//there are no words to explain as that emotion demands more than words – it is expressed in actions.//
I used to fear to get sick when I was younger. Now I simply hate to be sick. I hate to be in a hospital. I hate to need somebody's help to do my routine things. I don't have much to talk about it, but I practice it by being extra careful about my health.
Almost every one is practicing some thing similar to this in their life without being a threat to anything or anyone. Without trying to be funny, a case I know hate unintentionally seems to have caused an unlikely outcome is the reason behind the dentists having the highest rate of suicide among physicians. Apparently the intense hate dental patients have to be in a dentist office causes a lot of stress in dentists!
// bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, etc –..– and yes, hatred is a generic term for all of the above.//
I thought you said //There is no reason for hatred..//
//Why would anyone call you.. – bigotry – racist or anything else? Well let’s see….//
I didn't see "anyone" who did before you. You are answering your own call.
Your "well let's see..." started out great. But then you do only three things all along your analysis: ridicule, cuss, and the only one that I care, try so transparently to smear away the very thrust of the argument: the common thread that goes thru all of the criminals I happen to be ready to proffer at the time.
Do you know why police focuses on certain attributes of a criminal as identification? Things like skin color, a birth mark, weight, hight, eye color, a physical disability (like limping), etc. They don't pay too much attention to names, religions, jobs, hair color or length, etc. It is obvious. They prefer attributes that the criminals cannot easily fake. Something innately follows where ever the criminals go. Of course the criminals love to call police racist and bigot for doing that. It is a scientific method, it has good reasons behind it and police care less what criminals call them.
Police called italian mafia, Italian mafia, not catholic mafia, not dark hair good looking southern european mafia. You probably have no problem with that. But I am sure you will scream when someone says most italian mafias were actually one step before their real criminal bosses who were all hidden khazars. And just like pro-choice civil organizations who give civil and legal support to their cotribal criminal abortionests, the khazar film makers in holly wood kept cranking up movies to pound hard the idea that mafia means italian in the head of people. The same folks who brought you nazi means german, and today terrorist means moslem.
The fact that these are the same group of criminals and have been able to continue to do that is that we failed to tag them by and innate an intrinsic attribute. They changed their names, religions, jobs, nationalities and we lost track.
The whole thrust of the argument here is that we can identify an innate and intrinsic common thread in all of these criminals. Not only in this county, but in any western country that they have congregated the same pattern of criminality can be found. If you choose to ignore this shiny white elephant standing in front of you, be my guest. But if you want to stop others of doing it, you need a solid reason instead or beside of a sense of satirical wit, hooliganism, and a bigot/racist flag.
The criminals in GM and weapon industry that you mention, cannot be predicted before they commit their crimes. But nixon could have saved his presidency if he knew keeping khazar "deep throat" would be a great danger if he threatens his tribal interests. If clinton used his bigger head not to fool around with a female khazar deep throat, he could have saved himself a lot of respect.
If these two happened to be native americans from a particular tribe converted to islam, would you have ignored to mention it because that would have been bigotry? But it would be bigotry if some one says Bill Gates and Michael Bloomberg's recent $350 million donation to prevent smoking habit was their trick to avoid 10-20 times more taxes were their businesses identified as to be for-profit.
//..I would love to see your links which give you the statistics on the disproportionate murderers in the west//
Take ten large western countries, if they have one serial killers every ten years, there would be ten of them in ten years and fifty in fifty years. Khazar population in the west is probably less than ten percent. So they can have five serial killers in half a century to be proportional. Let me how many I can count by myself: 1.Monique oliver-2.Michel Fourniret-3.Harold Shipman-4.Richard Franklin Speck-5.Leo Frank-6.Ted Kaczynski-7.Bundy-8.Robert Durst-9.Jack the Ripper (Aaron Kosminski-1888 ). Discounting jack the ripper, there is eight of them. The more troubling thing is to find 45 nonkhazar serial killers in the west! The real trouble is you can't find an indian or chinese or african or arab or moslem one ever.
//..you blame a whole group of people or talk about their genetics, their background or their skin or one physical characteristic that really has nothing to do with what an individual does - and accountability needs to be handed to those it belongs to//
This is exactly what the thrust of my post was. I am giving you 'raw data', you ridicule and cuss and toss back at me a nice sounding 'theory'. We have accomplished nothing. You win!
---> g. randy primm 07.28.08 - 12:55 am
//katz also claims that the Wailing Wall was built by the Arabs..//
If you can concentrate enough to spell a four letter name correctly, it might help you see things more clearly.
//..bigotry goes hand in hand with ignorance.//
Here is your chance to prove your fair mindedness and intelligence by pulling one quote from my posts (no matter how old) that I have ever claimed what you claim I claim. One quote will do. (watch for spellings!)
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
PLEASE
TELL ME YOUR REAL NAME
X
Z
P
X-RAY
ZULU
PAPA
WHAT
IS
REAL
NAME
STAND UP YOU WORM
AND TELL ME
JUST THIS ONCE
I HAVE BEEN CALLED A FUCKING JEW MANY TIMES
TO MY FACE -I TAKE IT AND GIVE IT BACK
BUT YOU CAN RESPECT A MAN WHO IS UP FRONT AT LEAST HE HAS THE BALLS
Angel Gabriel, I feel the love you send and know that we are one and the same soul, we hurt and cry out our pain ,as we must, we are honest in our hearts and as transparent clean air. Let's get back to work! Peace, jerry
Subject: crash course Arab/Israeli Conflict
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:27:25 EST
From: Lilabqm@aol.com
The following material was written by an American Christian professor.
It's important information to know since we don't get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.
Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict
Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation. These were compiled by a Christian university professor. HERE'S THE BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT
TODAY....Takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!! It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter. Thank You.
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967,
two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an
Israeli soldier.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost.
Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
18. The U. N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
http://www.rense.com/general82/vg.htm
Dave--this is the behaviour that your 'christian' guru supports in the US then? The above site gives the real story. Just because someone calls himself a christian does not make him so. Open your eyes and find the truth about israel and their noose around our necks. The writer of the drivel you posted above should hang his head in shame for his complete abdication of Christian beliefs to support the evil that is zionism. He is as guilty of murder and mayhem as are the zionists.
DAVE
i personally believe the palestinians ,have to be settled up-those that lost land must be paid out ,the 3 judges must rule-so much per square meter,the money must be offered to each and every one,then they must be given the choice to make an offer to buy back what they lost or move OUT
3 judges
a jew
a christian
a moslem
every case must be heard
registered and brought before the judges by the owner of the land or his immediate family
posted on the internet for all to see
lets start the register right here on this site
I CALL ON ALL PALESTINIANS WHO LOST LAND DUE TO THE FORMING OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL TO COME FORWARD AND REGISTER YOUR NAMES AND TITLE DEEDS ON THIS SITE
THE OWNERS OF THAT LAND AND THEIR IMMEDIATE FAMILIES ONLY
TOM
SET ASIDE A POST
CALL IT THE REGISTER OF ARABS WHO LOST LAND DUE TO THE FORMATION OF ISRAEL IN 1948
LET THE SETTLING UP BEGIN IN 2008
In the first few posts I read by Gabriel, he was flaming so much at many of the posters here, that it is easy to mistake him as zionist trying to defend the indefensible. But as one reads his last post in response to the kind Jerry Gates who loves kids and is a carpenter(peace on you dear soul), then it becomes clear what Gabriel is trying to say. It is a fundamentally important truth that must be addressed.
Let me try to put it more simply than Gabriel has done.
In 2004, Bush won 50% or so of the vote. America has 300 million people. That translates into 150 million Americans. Since 70-90% of Blacks, Hispanics and Original Americans would not have voted for Bush even if a gun were held to their head, then we must deduce that about 125 million white people agree with Bush. Let's remove 25 million kids.
That leaves 100 million whites in this country who like what they see in Iraq - - 1.2 million killed, 2-3million wounded and 2-3 million displaced as refugees and homeless.
Now don't say all these whites are Jews, as Jews mostly vote Democratic, and there are only 5million adults among them.
So Gabriel's point is, and Paul Craig Roberts should pay attention to this, these 100 million whites (goys) have a lot of bllod on their hands from this crime alone.
Don't bash me as a zionist because I am a Muslim (although somewhat relapsed because seeing the Saudis and Dubaites spending 100's of billions on conspicuous, and tasteless consumption while black Muslims in Africa are dying by the million makes me vommit without end), but hate all evil - Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu or whatever. I have lived quite close to Idi Amin, a Muslim monster who killed 300,000 people and ate their bodies, but lived happily in Saudi with a lot of arab women until he died.
So don't lecture me about being naive. I used to post under a different name at Common Dreams before. Unfortunately (fortunately?) my posts began to hit at the true evil quite closely, so I was banned. I didn't even flame. Simply used logical deduction as above.
Yes, I have read the "The Controversy of Zion"; but that white Christian colonialist-bastard Douglas Reed fails to mention the genocide of 25 million Indians in India (Google "Monbiot", "Guardian" "India") by the British Imperialists (the same people who have caused the Israeli Palestinian mess).
So let me say it again:
How much of the innocent Iraqi blood can we pour onto the hands of the lilly white American "Christian" goy and how much should we put on the "Jews" who have been mercilessly pummeled here in a very hateful way with a broad brush(that is also Bauxall's point).
Rah Maat Taat
Ramses
Ramses--you are to quick to blame Christians for this war. Please study those who promoted this illegal war in Iraq. Please look at who profits from this war. The Iraq war is for israel and Americans are dying. But worse, innocent iraqis are dying--and that is well and good with israel--the less Arabs, the better, in their eyes. But not quite good enough, they now want us to go after Iran too.
Your statement that only Christians voted for Bush needs to be revamped. Only the machines voted for Bush, and you know who created and controls the voting machines.
here's a brief fact of ' jews '
Wake up America !!!
The Jews Are Not A Race
By Dr. Alfred M. Lilienthal
excerps from "What Price Israel"
http://wake-up-america.net/the%
2..._not_a_race.htm
very informative site - get ready for some revelations - facts you may wish you didn't know .....
Ramses | 07.29.08 - 5:02 am |
Next you will tell me that Disraeli was an anglo saxon goy, and that all the bankers/wankers in medieval europe who thirsted for gold and riches, building empires, looting, confiscating other people's land, and genociding innocent people, as you state rightly in Imperialistic India, one must include the Americas where most of the genocides were committed, that they were of goy origin. Greedy RIGHT WING jewish Bankers (again as they were then to today, an action which inhibits itself when the greed defacto stimuli is stirred into action) who prompted the goy rulers then, similar to today once again, to steal, but under a hypnotised name to the sheeples (the same very pattern which is so visible that a child of 10 can see) Oh 'We need to colonise these backward natives to a civilised way of thinking' This was the MAIN THEME if you study the deceptive way of motivating mercernaries both goy and criminals. Have a good Look what they did to the Americas from the tip to the bottom end of America.....All those sadistic greed driven europeans tempted by the BANKERS (even though they were christian and jews then broke the cardinal sin under the mind driven hatred that they were savages, when in fact it was totally reverse)...
The problem is still with us as it was then, as the subtle greed and blame game gets into action the pattern is still the same. Predictably the goys will do the fighting for them and as you only see it from one side of the prism, you truly miss out the real hidden culprits, and ironically without you seeing this reality, indirectly support their atrocities by using the white only terminology.
I truly hope you are not one of them...I wonder if you can see this clearly sir or madam.
Both parties THEN were just as guilty as both zionist christians and jews are guilty TODAY, carrying out the NEW imperialistic designs, i.e NWO; the new world order. Thus adding with ferocity and combining the strength from zionism dominated goy groups in Europe, OZ, UK, the Emirates and Saudies, will no doubt in the end wind up with nuclear war, that is, if a peaceful resolution is not met NOW.
HOwever, the glue that holds them are too strong, apart from peaceful resolutions to dissolve it, which looks rather pessimistic, but then, only a REVOLUTION (unfortunately a bloody one, for I just cant see them giving up or putting their hands up) will save mankind, as this will most definitely affect everyone on the planet.
To me this is a strategy right out of GENGHIS KHAN's hand book, to have world dominion, by having all these forces joined via zionism. Please, join the dots and look at the bigger picture, sir/madam, but then what these murderous criminals havent the faintest idea that what happened to Genghis and all those warmongers will happen to them in the end.
This powerful zionist group has not to be underestimated, which typifies their slavish monster hungry blood thirsty, driven by their psychopathic egos, and could care less for truth, passion, compassion or justice, eventually reminding one of the gangsters mafiaso code. Well looks like a lot of people buy into this crooked snake oil sale...It is up to you to see the other side of the coin, sir/madam
MICHAEL COHEN
You do not seem to get the message
now you call yourself = Anonymous =
Lay off xzp, try the forum in = Haaretz news paper = you will be among equals in crime and in ideology
Your people are the most cowardly we saw your soldiers in Lebanon and your scum pilots above Lebanon ,doing the dirty work on inhabitants and infrastructure and on Nature itself ..Poluting Lebanon Pristine Beaches ,and coastal line )
does it occur to you that xzp ,is not a fool ..?
From his/her post , I could tell you he is a Man and more a Human .. sorry could not say the same about you
Now piss off.. promto..
Dave
Most if not all that you stated are lies lies ..L-I-E-S
All from the pages of the master of zion .. ) himself ) that you called = American Christian professor =
Sorry we do NOT Buy it ..
Try selling your filth somewhere else .. you will find a lot of gullible fools around
Not here Mr mossad agent
xzp
You do not become less Human , if there are few Monkeys about, that looks like you and me .. you must know that they have not advanced yet from the animalistic stage, in point of fact they sidetracked , They are what we call : the stragglers… Do not lose Heart .Keep on Tracking Amigo
Ramse,
You don't know what youre talking about. First 50% of the VOTING POPULATION brought us bush. That is not 150 million Americans...You are a shill and any half intelligent person can see your numbers are not even close.
Then you include Hispanics as NOT voting for Bush. Bull Shit!!!! The Snitch bitches at work (there are two) who are ignorant white idiots are both Married to Mexican Men, BOTH are Bush lovers. Many Hispanic vote is notoriously voting Republican. The Hispanics, if blame is to be spread around, need to take their seat at head of table too.
(I lived in New Mexico for 4 years, I was a minority. I was very surprised to find out that Mexican's are very racist people, especially against Black folks...they hate the blacks.)
Get your fact right.
Its time to stop blaming who is responsible for what and START DOING SOMETHING TO STOP THE INSANITY.
Ramse,
You are right, however, about the Fundamentalist right wing Christians. They are the ones behind the 28% approval rating Bush still has. Fundies are not all white though.
We have to each take responsibility and do what we can to help change things. That is what we need to remember. Hate and finger pointing isn't going to do it.
Lawrence Boxall
I 'll be short as i would like to answer that zionjew idiot that is picking on xpc , and that more skewed of them all the head ziojew , come agent from mossad ( the contemptible we got among us ) they call = American Christian professor =
You seem tend to deflect the cause of our problem from the zionjews by twisting and turning in every which way ,you said (You see, Mr Carlotti, you seem to be assuming that I am an apologist for the Zionist when I am not. ) Yes you are ..and sham on you
Now that chap = William C. Carlotti = I do not think he get things wrong at all , he got the most clear vision , I say rated = 100/100 = just read his Blog …
Mr .. ,You are Wrong ,had you stated that not all of it .. You would have been Right not all Jews are zion oriented ( that is correct ) but the zion concept and ideology is made by a Jew ,for the Jews , and some non jews leached to it ,like fish to water ..they are the scum’s and the unethical , the most selfish ,greedy few ,that any human society , have it's share ,of them
Anyway ,back to the sentence I detest most that your answer was ( I'm not sure what your point is but you seem to be suggesting that if my enemy is committing crimes against me then I am entitled to commit crimes against her..)
You seem to get the drift , then you stated ( I don't agree with you. I prefer the Rule of Law to the law of the jungle
There you go again ,getting your view wrong again ,in your method of deduction ..
You are telling us , that if an intruder inter your home ,attacked your beloved , grabbed you and shit on your head , you will reach to the phone and call the Police , so as not to commit a crime ,like the intruder.?!?! Just because you (I prefer the Rule of Law to the law of the jungle ) as you stated ..
Now do not tell anyone where you reside … ( you could figure why this time I hope )
You could just email me .. I am tempted to pay you a visit ,( Alas I am a Pacifist ) but then again it is not my cup of tea
xzp
I second that, the minute someone tries to smother you, as is done with holocaust deniers who are put to jail, then something is terribly wrong, particularly when they subtly try to suppress freedom of speech....
Good on you, Raymond/anonymous 23...You have a backbone to stand up against these criminal elites who come here to deceive us once again to sell us snake oil...What is the old saying amigo ? You can fool people some of the time, and you can fool people most of the time, but you cannot fool them forever....At last the truth is there to haunt them to eternity....Oh I forgot they were the chosen ones, chosen by who ? Must be the satanic group who defy their own commandment that thou shall NOT KILL.
Well Dave and anonymous, have your say, we wont stop you from YOUR freedom of speech, but please come up with some genuine articles, not fabricated ones to fool the fearful. And if you are genuinely interested in generating peace and harmony in this universe, its about time to cut out the crap and bullshit that you are angels. Redeem yourself forever, for the world is witnessing you as the criminal you represent.
When will you guys ever learn to stay united as ONE group, and abandon displacing not only muslims but goys who challenge you from the rights and wrongs that you have committed ? The mere fact that you spout out for zionism and their illegal rights, the more you will be defeated by your primitive stance with humanity....Like I said please, put an offer where WE can ALL live side by side instead of this demented and psyched up division, which is instilled in your warped consciousness against Muslims and Palestinians...The world is waiting for a peaceful directive...Are you capable of that OR NOT ?
KATS: "The west is on the verge of a historical catastrophic societal breakdown. I am baffled by how you can look the other way."
I'm not baffled by it kats. I saw it a long time ago. People have choices in the "West" if it is only the west you are targeting. We chose as a people to buy the Lies hook line and sinker. A seller needs a buyer.
Who is more wrong Kats? Those selling the evil or those buying it? There's a dance going on, and we are all participating until we say "no".
George: I take your point to be that I should blame the Zionist psychopaths at AIPAC and other power centers for the war in Iraq. I do. So we are agreed that much. However, the other part of your argument that I should blame ONLY Zionist crazies and not the far larger number of white, blood thirsty (for Muslim blood) right wing, Christian crazies who do constitute the 100 million rednecks I mentioned above is illogical.
When a Christian crazy goes into the privacy of the voting booth and votes to re-elect George Bush with relish for killing and maiming 5 million "sand niggers" in Iraq, and he/she votes as such without a twinge of conscience for the little children blown to pieces, then yes, I do blame THESE white Christians.
And If the other "liberal" white Christians who did not vote for Bush, but claim they are therefore good and anti-zionist, then where is the OUTRAGE on the streets and in the churches and in the Vatican, or in front of the AIPAC offices. A daily hunger strike by 1000 coscientious Christians in front of AIPAC will get everybody's attention pronto.
So where are all these "good" white Christians, or as Hillary Clinton called them- - "hard working white people".
Do you see my point? You are rationalising away the complicity of the white, Christian, non-Jewish western world in the horrors of Iraq. In fact the leading people in the current protest movement are mostly Jews. Do you see a Catholic Cardinal or the Arch Bishop of Canterbury anywhere leading a mass protest of "good" white Christians converging on Pennsylvania Avenue?
Aren't the white soldiers who VOLUNTEER to go to the killing fields of Iraq white, Christian youths, in as much as the brown shirts of Hitler were fervent Catholics?
Richard: I believe I have answered the substance in your remarks above. Most of the rest of your comment has become incoherent because you are sputtering with too much anger.
I never said I absolve the rich-filth BANKERS of mass murder. In fact they are the financiers of the wars since the late 1700's.
But who provides the warm bodies to carry out their blood lust?
White, Christian soldiers and public.
If we start excusing them as you are doing that these people are dumb, and they were or are hoodwinked into killing little children in their thousands all over the non-white world, then your level of reasoning is precisely on the level of these non-Jewish white Christian killers of humankind.
The wheel of karma is turning, and in the whirlwind that is coming the way of mass muderers of non-white peoples simply because they were non-white and non-Chrsitian, no distinction will be made between the BANKERS and their millions of obedient servents.
By the way, as I used to post at CD, you have 10 years to make ammends, for the "Powers of LIGHT" are arrayed against all perpetrators of mass evil-whether general, foot soldier, insoucient church goer, Muslim hypocrites with billions to waste, or Zionist crazies.
The LIGHT is an equal opportunity provider of Divine Justice.
Rah Maat Taat
Ramses
{i personally believe the palestinians ,have to be settled up-those that lost land must be paid out ,the 3 judges must rule-so much per square meter,the money must be offered to each and every one,then they must be given the choice to make an offer to buy back what they lost or move OUT}
E LURIE | 07.29.08 - 4:50 am | #
====================================
OUR LAND is NOT for sale Mr. lurie
You want us to pay the thieves who stole our land illegally and immorally in the first place or move OUT???
What an absurd logic!!
zionists want compensations when they are victims, and when they are victimizers!!
when they oppressed AND when they are oppressors
AMAZING
What choice is that??
For justice to prevail:
1- EVERY Palestinian MUST be allowed to go back home unconditionally.
AND
2- EVERY Palestinian also MUST be compensated for the catastrophe, oppression and injustice which’s inflected upon them for decades, and for the many years of languishing in refugee camps
If the world wants to reward the thieves and give them money, it’s up to the world
BUT
I am NOT buying back my stolen land from the thief who stole it
And
I am NOT giving up my right and my children’s right to return to OUR homeland, to regain our identity and to live freely, peacefully, and with dignity amongst our people
.
Richard
Amigo ,can’t recall whether I mentioned to you ,that in 1965 ,I read in a renowned Archaeological magazine , That some Russians scientists ,discovered in Iraq ( the land between the two rivers ) in ruins , of distance past … artefacts with distinctive Radioactive radiation …and what is a more I think a gadget of some sort ( or maybe a tool ) that they could not explain , or find how it was used ..
That makes you wonder... I promised myself to research this...but I never did...But still remember the incident
By the way check the contribution of the Phoenicians that I did study, and find things for myself...
There is Nothing New under the Sun (That I do believe)
What we currently discovered is just a rediscovery
I believe people rediscovering what was discovered, deserve the same merit, just for the fact they introduce it to our everyday life
I won’t mind the Jews or any other race, as long as they do not interfere with livelihood or peace and prosperity of others … But most of those slimy tribe do cause Havoc and discord all over the land, I wish they abort their mission, we certainly got other Grand matter to attend to, and direct our efforts... in a cosmic scale we are next to nothing indeed..Togather all pulling one way we might form a dot... and that is doubtful, The way I see it we all need one another...no one person or one tribe or one race is an entity by itself... the sooner we all know that the better is the prospect of our race you and me and everybody .. I am just of million at least holding this view
Research the subject of Astronomy ( my favourite ) I never was into politics .. only when I visit ICH ,for current World affairs .. Politics do not make sense and Politician are mostly a drop out illiterates
nahida
I was hoping you will answer that agent from the dark side of humanity
I just could not because I am not a Palestinian ( very close though .. ! )
Think twice before you praise a Jew ( I am sure that person is ok ,few others I know of are as good as the Best ..but nevertheless … ) remember that
"One swallow does not make a summer." That been noticed by Aristotle , many moons ago
This cursed tribe ,it is in their genes ..in their psychic .. there are exception ..that just act to prove the Rule
Didn’t your people have enough of them ..?
You illustrated to us all many time ..their suffering ..that we know
Take my words as you take things, from a Friend ( no malice intended just a gentle tiff from a friend ,must say a brother too )
We must all remember that we should not allow opinion to colour our judgment.
We are all accountable.
What we condemn in others we must correct in ourselves.
We must become all that we were meant to be.
We must become the CHANGE we wish to see in the world.
Our world is reaching the end of its tether. Hang in there. (Metaphorically speaking!)
Pray for our world.
Peace
Ramses,
Your analysis is faulty, only perhaps 1/3 the number of Americans voted for Bush as you claim. Your mistake lies in presuming that 100% of the public are qualified to register, registered, and voted.
Almost half of the registered voters didn't vote because they saw no choice between Kerry and Bush (an accurate assessment) and they were sold on the defeatist mantra of the Democrats that "third parties can't win".
By the way, Ramses, the Mexican Americans are far more militaristic and imperialistic than Whites or Blacks.
It is always possible to manipulate the public into supporting aggression. The public aren't the cause of the situation, it is the owners of the media, church leadership, educational institutions, and business and financial establishment.
Israeli troops kill Palestinian kid
Israeli troops kill a senior Hamas fighter and bulldoze his home
Israel demolishes a high storey building in East Jerusalem making 5 families homeless yesterday morning
Latest News
Slaughter/Destruction of Palestinians life and property continues
Ramses,
Mexican-American's have been supporting Bush. And when I lived in N.M. I was surprised to find they are actually very racist against Blacks. Same where I live. There is a large segment of Mexicans that vote for whoever is in the Republican seat. Very few of them really even bothered to investigate who and what they were voting for...just like alot of whites.
Also, Your Math is wrong on the stats you present about the election. Not everyone OF VOTING AGE votes. This is representative of the voting public only...(THEN you take into consideration that the votes are rigged in alot of places)
You are right about the Christian right wing, though. And I am sure that Bush's "popularity" rating of about 25-28% is largely due to these folks.
Ramses, Remember too that Christian Fundamentalists-Right include people of all colors.
We are all responsible and should be doing what we can to change and help our planet.
Angel Gabriel: I am impressed. Keep writing.
Jerry Gates: I am impressed.
Anonymous-I agree with you. I like Angel Gabriel much more when his posts are not infused with anger/sarcasm/ego.
Peace to all--Suzi
War and hate in their intensity are like a snowball rolling down a mountain. All the snowball understands is the gravity and it gets larger because nothing is standing in its way. It will get bigger and cause more destruction, but its ultimate fate is to hit the bottom of the mountain and cause even more destruction and to finally explode into millions and billions and trillions of tiny bits. That is the life of a snowball and it is also the life on one who follows the ways of evil. In this case war. War is evil.
The Iraq War is a monster that should never have gotten rolling, but it did. So, whether you be a Zionist supporter of this thing or one who voted for George Bush knowing that he intended more war, then you are as equally as guilty as all the rest. You are guilty because you did not take the time to understand war and what it means. You cannot justify any war on historical or other grounds. So, when an evangelical Christian says that he supports George Bush and the war in Iraq because " something " in history justifies it for him, then there is something wrong with his religion. His religion is not against war. What kind of a religion is that? A very poor one I would say.
I am not saying that any individual person as a person can stop war and its consequences, but the least that a human can do is to acknowledge what war is. If you know what destruction a snowball rolling down a mountain can cause and look in dismay then why cannot you look at the Iraq War and be equally dismayed? That to my mind would be a logical comparison to make.
To Lawrence Baxall Paul Craig Roberts article that has generated this lengthy series of posts is essentially about someone that came to the realization that he was receiving distorted information about the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government’s invasion and absorption of the Palestine beyond the internationally recognized 1947-48 border or 1967 internationally recognized cease fire line or the building of the wall that recreates a Jewish ghetto (Roberts uses the short hand “Israeli_Palestinian conflict” which is itself a distortion of the reality)
You have chosen in your comments to serve as a perpetuation of the distortion by focusing on the ridiculous notion, in fact predicting, that the possibility of an economic crisis will somehow result in scapegoating Jews.
The fact of the matter is that anti-semitism does not exist in the United States as an economic factor in the system, as an organizational factor in the system, as an educational factor in the system, as a mass media induced factor in the system, as a political factor in the system---it does not exist systemically in any form. Obviously, like any set of pejoratives that can appear in a dialogue like this, there are those that enunciate some aspect of its nonsensical rationalizations. As a matter of conjecture, I often wonder if such ridiculous assertions are deliberately placed in these posts to discredit the justified, legitimate condemnations of the Zionist led Israeli government
As a matter of fact, if we examine all of those matters that would be the practical effects of anti-semitism we find that they simply do not exist. The median income of the Jewish community is higher than the median income of the rest of our population. The median income in the United States is about $25,000 a year. That means that one half of all Americans earn more than that, and one half earn less. The median Jewish American income is double that, i.e., $50,000 a year. About 40% of American High School graduates go to college. However, 85% of Jewish high school graduates go to college.
More importantly if we examine the industry where the possibility exists that pimping for the scapegoating of our Jewish population could take place (as the industry did and is doing to support the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq and the support for the Israeli invasion and absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders) we find that Jewish Americans have had an astounding success in owning the most significant segments of the gonglomerates of the mass media industry.
There is Murray Rothstein, owner of CBS, MTV, LOGO, Blockbuster Video, Paramount and Dreamworks Stidios; there is Edgar Bronfman Jr. Principal holder of Warner Corp., whose media venues include NBC Television, Turner Broadcasting, CNN, Warner Chappell Music, AOL, Time Magazine; there is Jeff Zucker, President and CEO of NBC Television; there is Michael Eisner, former CEO of of Walt Disney Company, Principal holder of Capital Cities which owns ABC Television; there is Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox Television, TV Guide, Twentieth Century Fox, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and the London Times; there is Peter Chernin CEO of Murdoch’s News Corporation; there is Mortimer Zuckerman, owner of US News and World Report and the New York Daily; there is Donald E.Graham, Chairman of the Board of the Washington Post; which owns Newsweek; last but not least there is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger that controls The Times Company that publishes the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the International Herald Tribune and sixteen other newspapers.
Now if we are to give credence to Boxwell’s assertion, prediction that there is a possibility of scapegoating the Jews in the event of an economic crisis, we have to ask the question, Where would the scapegoating originate, where would it be publicized?
In fact, the opposite is true when you consider the publicized assault that Jimmy Carter suffered for his legitimate, justified criticism of the Israeli’s apartheid style absorptionof the Palestine beyond its borders.
Boxwell’s ridiculous concern with anti-semitism is the canard that has been the bulwark against the fully justified criticism and condemnation of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist support of the Israeli government’s unconscionable slaughter of innocents in the occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond Israel’s internationally recognized border.
I am left "relatively" speechless here after reading the last 35 or so comments posted since yesterday. I know that must sound unusual coming from me, especially to be speechless.
However, what I can clearly see is a dividing line that has appeared. Is that a good thing? YES, & NO. Yes from the standpoint of my seeing a definite softening, and more of an understanding developing in some of you that is fantastic to see!!!
But in another regard - definitely not a good thing! I see the "listed" hate mongers, still in defiant "hate mode" and ready to attack "Ramses" over a point he was attempting to make. Was it over the point of how he arrived at his calculation in numbers of Goy's (white people) that voted for Bush, and reelected him? It was disguised under a cloud of noxious gas that argued NUMBERS OF VOTER'S that couldn't have been possible because some were children, some were too old, others were whatever other stoopid reason. Sorry I'm not awake enough yet to look up the numerous excuses whay he was wrong, and labelled a shill - as he was called by someone - I'm sure you know who you are and you should be ashamed of yourself! Could you not see where he was coming from, or were you persecuting the "non-white" alien-American for being on the outside of your little clique?
I suggest you hate-wits go back up to his post and re-read it. The underlying message that Ramses attempts to deliver is that it doesn't matter if your a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, black, white, green, or rainbow coloured - he has seen up front and personal what hate does in societies. You hate-nik's are blinded by your own hatred.
Hate is a destroyer of humanity, it drives people to unbelievable actions! Imagine for a moment that Dick Cheney shot and ATE that Lawyer in South Texas, and did the same thing to his enemies on a regular basis( actually I could imagine that from Cheney). Would you be quick to accept an invitation to his place for dinner? Consider Edie-Amin was the head of his country, and you were a citizen! My God people!!!
Ramses, from my take on his post, is saying that you can't take a generalization and put a label on it. Hate lives in the heart, and is spread like a disease. Hate pushes out all rationale and positive emotion, including Love, and compassion.
Hate compulses a person to an irrational level and is unquenchable. Once you have it it's impossible to irradicate without severe psychic - overhaul accompanied by a fundamental bottom-line CONSCIOUS desire to extinguish it from your life.
HATE IS AN ADDICTION, and it can only be treated as such in order to remove it. But first you have to acknowledge it. Ramses has arrived at that point, and is getting past it as best he can, I feel.
How many of you hate-fucks can look in the mirror and say the same thing?????
If I were given a choice of eliminating 3 emotions from this planet that most all of us mammalian varieties have in common, it would be
1. Hate
2. Greed
3. Envy
Imagine a world without them. Imagine living together in peace. Imagine and then do whatever it takes to make it so, damn it!
Be gone you hate filled animals. You know damn well who you are, or do I need to re-publish the list to remind you?
Take some lessons from Nahida. Refuse to tolerate hate, and stand your ground in the face of it. No hateful person will be able to stand in your gaze and bare their soul to it's force. The force of love and true rightousness.
Sorry, this is sounding like a sermon now, and not being a "religious person" I'm hanging out on an unfamiliar limb.
Don't expect this from me very often, I call em as I see em - atheo you despicable bastard I particularly hope you read this twice! As well as the rest of your little clan of hate worshipping finger pointer's!
And to those who slammed Lizbitchwitch for her excellent post that attempted to force you all to look inside your own hearts instead of pointing fingers of blame away from your own doing, or LACK there of. I would suggest to you that Liz has seen a lot more of the absolute hate and evil that permeates American Society than any 50 of you from the inside. She's an absolute GEM on the inside with a rough bitter-sweetie outside. She calls it as she see's it and personally, I love her for it. She's a lot like me - not afraid to call a spade a spade, and stand up to those forces of deceit that attempt to keep us in the dark and bleetingly apathetic & complicit while they run amok for their own personal agenda of the 3 emotions I would like to eliminate above! Big Hug Liz - you're my kinda girl!!!
NAHIDA
THE REGISTER
PUT YOUR NAME ON THE REGISTER INCLUDE DOCUMENTS
BE THE FIRST ONE
ENCOURAGE OTHERS
THE REGISTER OF PALESTINIANS WHO LOST LAND IN 1948
Anyone wanting proof of atheo's White Supremicist ties?
"By the way, Ramses, the Mexican Americans are far more militaristic and imperialistic than Whites or Blacks."
atheo | 07.29.08 - 10:19 am |
Here's some back-up for my above "lengthy" post -
Ramses,
"Your analysis is faulty, only perhaps 1/3 the number of Americans voted for Bush as you claim. Your mistake lies in presuming that 100% of the public are qualified to register, registered, and voted.
Almost half of the registered voters didn't vote because they saw no choice between Kerry and Bush (an accurate assessment) and they were sold on the defeatist mantra of the Democrats that "third parties can't win".
atheo | 07.29.08 - 10:08 am | #
So instead of making a helpful suggestion to Ramses about the accuracy of his numerical comparison - Ramses get's the atheo treatment of moralist Repub-litarian swiftboat "dis"-creditation.
Cat,
Does "You know who you are" mean anything to you?
TO:
raymond /anonymous 23
Thanks for the kind words and your support - raymond /anonymous 23....you're perspectives are valued very much on ICH forum!
TO:
William Carlotti,
Suzan,
Paul Barbara
.....thanks for your comments - keep those comments coming on ICH - your perspectives are greatly appreciated and needed on this forum!
Cheers and Peace.
William C. Carlotti
Right on Brother
you said :
( Now if we are to give credence to Boxwell’s assertion, prediction that there is a possibility of scapegoating the Jews in the event of an economic crisis, we have to ask the question, Where would the scapegoating originate, where would it be publicized?
In fact, the opposite is true when you consider the publicized assault that Jimmy Carter suffered for his legitimate, justified criticism of the Israeli’s apartheid style absorptionof the Palestine beyond its borders.
Boxwell’s ridiculous concern with anti-semitism is the canard that has been the bulwark against the fully justified criticism and condemnation of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist support of the Israeli government’s unconscionable slaughter of innocents in the occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond Israel’s internationally recognized border. )
In fact all what is stated too
Dave, nice post, you have your ducks all in a row , I see, very neat and tidy, but does history start 3000 years ago? Not on my watch! History is endless in reverse as far as we are concerned,right.
The Hebrew scriptures indicate the Joshua took possession od Cannan and routed the Cannanites(Arabs) brutally in a massacre,ok'd by God of course.
I guess you aver that, as now, might was right then as well and any stronger force which happen along with a note from God is right to kill the inhabitants of a land and move right in and begin a new history, omitting what came before.
Let's go a little deeper ,Dave and see what we fing...
Melchisadek, a strong element of Hebrew scriptures was met after Abraham's conquests of the valley of kings and asked for a tithe of Abraham. This tithe, to the "King OF Salem(jerusalem) was Jerusalem. Since Abraham is the father of the Jews and was younger than Melchisadek( a priest forever of the highest rank)it stands to reason that Melchisadek could not have been a Jew since the word Jew was not even in existance at that time.
The King od salem was then an original King, An Arab of Jerusalem, which means ziltch to me as it does to every sane person on the planet. It matters not what is in the past and we see that the current Jewish nation holds it's capital to be Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem and the UN sees this as a legality to be enforced by international law and it's courts.
Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel or we would know this , Right? So What's your point, Dave, are you prepping the world for another Israeli land grab and making a case for it pre-emptivly? I wonder what Melchisadek would think of this and the UN.
Blame it all on Jordan, an ally of Israel which is at peace with Israel and it's people? Why go there ,Dave? If Jerusalem is to be a capital, why not a shared capital with Arabs and Jews alike in it and shareing it's treasures? This seem more equitable to me and as I remember Nicolas Sarkozy sees this as a real possibility,and he is the best friend Israel could imagine.
The past is certainly no judge of what is to become of Jerusalem in terms of who got there first or stayed the longest or the native Americans would be within their rights to reclain Detroit, or Washington DC or New york as their capital and ethnicly cleanse the whites and Jews so they could be the rightful heirs to New York, they were there the longest and got their about ten thousand years sooner than the Jewish and international inhabitants did. This isn't going to happen and is no prerequistie for a takeover of any US city by the native Americans, although perhaps it should be, what do you think about this, Dave?
I can see that you are passionate about Jerusalem, so am I and every Christian and Muslim due to the ancient holy sites which elicit a reminder of our past glories and of God's dealings in this holy land.
If Christians, Jews and Muslims all like Jerusalem,is it any wonder that it is a disputed city? Israel is encroaching quickly on the city's east side and being brutal to the Christians and Muslims and especially to the Palestinians. As it stand now, jerusalem is the site of a gay festival and this is not sitting well with the Rabbinical council or Muslims, but fair is fair, gays have every right to be there as do anyone who wants to visit, but Israel controls who comes and goes from Jerusalem and who cannot leave(Mordechai Vannunu is imprisoned their,he is a Christian Jew)
What a handle, huh, Dave, a Christian Jew? Jews for Jesus? Not a bad thought if your a believer in scriptures, the king of the Jews was a nice Guy but not THEIR KING as they accepted him not, but his legacy is to be remembered as the savior on many fallen souls and is revered as a prophet and conquerer of the anti Christ by Muslims.
History is not just the history of the Jews, Christians or Muslims, the Native American tribes and the ancients in the middle east and Africa are known to have looked just like us as long ago as twenty five thousand years and we can discern for certian that they were in the fertile cresent and in Jerusalem before any Jew ever was even concieved, so lets get on with a more reasonable approach to what should be the fate of Jerusalem...
Debat is a wonderful thing, isn't it ,Dave? why not assemble a group from every concerned people and talk about this on the Temple Mount? We may find that reverance of a piece of real estate is somewhat ridiculous as God asks us not to worship the creation ,but the creator. But we need to let everyone speak their piece as Jerusalem is not legally the holding of Isreal as it stands in the UN or ICC at this time and we are here, not 3000 years in the past, so lets stay put and deal with this fairly and see what happens.
Israel is a proud nation and has it's heritage in the beginnings of three religions, not just one,and we also know that the Muslims are the fastest growing, most numerous and the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, (Melchisidek was it's King,a priest forever as is Jesus Christ.
To be under the impression that Jews are the preminant ruler and holder of this city is not to hard to grasp, given their histry there, so we can concede that Jerusalem is important and nessesary to Israel and must remain in their spirtual and national heritage, That said, we can also see that the Dome of the Rock is no mirage and the Christ is not a fictional character, he has his history in many scriptures recorded and is now seen as the icon of Christianity, it's hallmark ,if you will alow this reasonable description.
All sides should be able to speak, then listen attentivly and be unbiased and loving towards every viewpoint , this is fair, given the strength of Israel and it's clain to Jerusalem.
Might is on the side of Israel and the Jews in theory and they seem to exercise this might in many ways, many of them violent towards the Palestinians who well may posess the bloodline of Melchisadek in their childrens veins. Israel then is a usurper of the original right of deed , by virtue of the father of Israel's tithe to the KING of SALEM.
We can be rerasonable and talk this through or belligerant and rewrite history to your benifit , but that's not good negotiation , nor good politics and may yet give rise to war for this tiny city of antiquity.
War is no answer to any dispute unless you happen to be the most powerful nation or an ally of it.
Might is not right,Dave, nor can we honestly depend on just the historical claims of Jews to Jerusalem, we have laws to abide by, courts to settle issues legally and God to oversee this process in Holyness as no man can, or ever will. We are here, now and need to be in the moment of this debate and lets be friendly, persuasive and cordial, and see if we all can't find some good mediation in our hearts to settle this matter with dignity, sincerity and lawfully or we will never see the end of it, nor will Israel.
If Israel continues to march over Jerusalem with their settlements, I feel that this will infuriate God, and we don't wnat that Dave.Lets be like Rabbis and argue it over the scriptures first, them be pragmatic and discuss it over love and be wise enough to share this Holy City with the world as our testement to God's love for all of his childrem of Judeaism and be proud of our shortcomings, not our nations.
Ramses EQUALS Angel Gabriel
Same person.
RE:
Anonymous | 07.29.08 - 3:02 am |
"XZP
XZP
XZP
XZP
PLEASE
TELL ME YOUR REAL NAME"
RE:
Anonymous | 07.29.08 - 3:13 am |
"STAND UP YOU WORM
AND TELL ME
JUST THIS ONCE
I HAVE BEEN CALLED A FUCKING JEW MANY TIMES
TO MY FACE -I TAKE IT AND GIVE IT BACK
BUT YOU CAN RESPECT A MAN WHO IS UP FRONT AT LEAST HE HAS THE BALLS"
Nice. Real classy. Excellent choice of semantics and linguistics. You framed and contextualized your whining drivel and blather succinctly....and - otherwise displayed decorum and finesse.
But I'll grant you this:
Since you grovelled (and behaved like a snivelling sycophant in general) I'll tell you my real name once and for all.....it's:
Ben Dover Ankismyreer
Got that?
Carl Badalya,
I went into your site today and read your thoughts on religion. I appreciate atheists like you, that have an open mind. Who knows all the reasons why people believe in one way or another...mostly it seems to be conditioning. I have noticed with the "rapturists" that they cling to a hope that they will escape physical death. Most people do not like to ponder death, I have discovered, which is unsettling because I find it a great topic.
For awhile I was disheartened to discover that both my kids, are agnostics. This is probably due to the fact that I did not take them to churches to become indoctrinated, although we did go awhile to Seattle Unity. (But, Unity is somewhat like the Universalist...even Atheists go). I think it is good now, because they are deciding on things for themselves without a set of ideological views of someone else.
I found your writing to be more in line with agnosticism, and not a militant type of atheist with no interest at all. But that is just how I read it. (maybe my own conditioning?)
Great comment, btw...and I agree about what you say about Iraq. I'm thinking the Iran saber-rattling was a bunch of propaganda, meant to keep the attention away from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine. (I guess we'll find out).
Wrong Igor - you're just clutching at straws to cover atheo's ass as usual, or could it be that you ARE atheo?
Funny how you're not calling Ramses "a smelly Jew Nazi Psychopath" if you think it's me!!! snort snort!
Back under the fridge bottom-feeder!
Oh look xzp, you don't have any balls! Ha ha.
Of course, I'd not disclose my own name on this forum either. For no other reason than knowing there are a lot of wack jobs lurking in the wings - like you, and your "wall of flamer's"!
Names aren't important anyway - Anonymous. I might point out though that I persoanlly would like to seperate out the "anonymous's" because I find it hard not to associate them with Igor - the "anonymous" smelly alter ego of atheo".
Oh and while I'm on the topic - rgl, you're one to talk about my harping on atheo - get a grip and stop your self important lecturing long enough to understand the reason I do it! Or do you need a personal "roadmap"?
To Lawrence Baxall Paul Craig Robert's article that has generated this lengthy series of posts is essentially about someone that came to the realization that he was receiving distorted information about the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government’s invasion and absorption of the Palestine beyond the internationally recognized 1947-48 border or 1967 internationally recognized cease fire line or the building of the wall that recreates a Jewish ghetto (Roberts uses the short hand “Israeli_Palestinian conflict” which is itself a distortion of the reality)
You have chosen in your comments to serve as a perpetuation of the distortion by focusing on the ridiculous notion, in fact predicting, that the possibility of an economic crisis will somehow result in scapegoating Jews.
The fact of the matter is that anti-semitism does not exist in the United States as an economic factor in the system, as an organizational factor in the system, as an educational factor in the system, as a mass media induced factor in the system, as a political factor in the system---it does not exist systemically in any form. Obviously, like any set of pejoratives that can appear in a dialogue like this, there are those that enunciate some aspect of its nonsensical rationalizations. As a matter of conjecture, I often wonder if such ridiculous assertions are deliberately placed in these posts to discredit the justified, legitimate condemnations of the Zionist led Israeli government
If we examine all of those matters that would be the practical effects of anti-semitism we find that they simply do not exist. The median income of the Jewish community is higher than the median income of the rest of our population. The median income in the United States is about $25,000 a year. That means that one half of all Americans earn more than that, and one half earn less. The median Jewish American income is double that, i.e., $50,000 a year. About 40% of American High School graduates go to college. However, 85% of Jewish high school graduates go to college.
More importantly if we examine the industry where the possibility exists that pimping for the scapegoating of our Jewish population could take place (as the industry did and is doing to support the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq and the support for the Israeli invasion and absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders) we find that Jewish Americans have had an astounding success in owning the most significant segments of the conglomerates of the mass media industry.
There is Murray Rothstein, owner of CBS, MTV, LOGO, Blockbuster Video, Paramount and Dreamworks Stidios; there is Edgar Bronfman Jr. Principal holder of Warner Corp., whose media venues include NBC Television, Turner Broadcasting, CNN, Warner Chappell Music, AOL, Time Magazine; there is Jeff Zucker, President and CEO of NBC Television; there is Michael Eisner, former CEO of of Walt Disney Company, Principal holder of Capital Cities which owns ABC Television; there is Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox Television, TV Guide, Twentieth Century Fox, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and the London Times; there is Peter Chernin CEO of Murdoch’s News Corporation; there is Mortimer Zuckerman, owner of US News and World Report and the New York Daily; there is Donald E.Graham, Chairman of the Board of the Washington Post; which owns Newsweek; last but not least there is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger that controls The Times Company that publishes the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the International Herald Tribune and sixteen other newspapers.
Now if we are to give credence to Boxwell’s assertion, prediction that there is a possibility of scapegoating the Jews in the event of an economic crisis, we have to ask the question, Where would the scapegoating originate, where would it be publicized?
In fact, the opposite is true when you consider the publicized assault that Jimmy Carter suffered for his legitimate, justified criticism of the Israeli’s apartheid style absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders. Then when you consider that all of these huge media conglomerates have succeeded in abetting, endorsing and supporting the scapegoating of Iraq and Afghanistan for the collapse of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building Seven in order to promote the invasion and occupation of these countries, the matter becomes even more insidious
Boxwell’s ridiculous concern with anti-semitism is the canard that has been the bulwark against the fully justified criticism and condemnation of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist support of the Israeli government’s unconscionable slaughter of innocents in the occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond Israel’s internationally recognized border.
RE: Angel Gabriel | 07.29.08 - 5:54 pm |
"Wrong Igor - you're just clutching at straws to cover atheo's ass as usual, or could it be that you ARE atheo?
Funny how you're not calling Ramses "a smelly Jew Nazi Psychopath" if you think it's me!!! snort snort!"
Back under the fridge bottom-feeder!"
Angel Gabriel:
WTF?
You insult, you deride, you ridicule, you disparage, you belittle, you berate. You constantly accuse others of posting under multiple pseudonyms on the ICH forum.
Look Angel, let's be abundantly clear about this: Just because you have an affliction called: "MPPD" (Multiple Personality Posting Disorder), doesn't mean that everyone else on this forum does also. Perhaps an increase in your meds associated with this disorder is in order...
I'm just ‘sayin......
Oh, and Cheers!
Quote
If we start excusing them as you are doing that these people are dumb, and they were or are hoodwinked into killing little children in their thousands all over the non-white world, then your level of reasoning is precisely on the level of these non-Jewish white Christian killers of humankind.
In Answer, its very very obvious you havent read my posts before, therefore it goes to reveal how you get your maths wrong too.
I would suggest you encompass right from wrong, and dont blame sheeples or lemmings who where goaded then in the yesteryears to today, study up on stats a bit as well, not the general hyped up false stats offered by the big brother media, instead do some hard yakka of research, or go back to school and learn, and then start preaching to me.
This is the same type of accusation levied against me by the new-born-again half wit Ding BAT who believes he is an Angel...some serious problems with his identity too, who I think he is either on hard drugs or taking the wrong medication for a wrong symtpon...Can anyone offer a cure for split personality ?
When Angel and You Ramses the XXXXXIV start putting the blame on the real criminals; the right wing jews, and not protect the Chimpskies of this world, then I will take you seriously, until then it 's goodbye to you Dr Jerkoff and Mr Hideous. NO folks, this aint hate, but a passionate plea and helpful hint, for them to study in earnest, the idiot's guide to right wing jewish zionism..
Cat if you are reading..
You are highly aligned in the spiritual sense when you hit topics in previous postsand by your last comment, I knew you had it, but wasnt all that sure. From we shared a lot in common, Glad to know this and it is comforting to know brave you really are in the face of the sorrow and chaos perpectuated by idiots whom we elected fraudelently into power.
Therefore, I agree with what you stated before, that United we stand against the non truths of this chaotic world, which is deemed by societies as nomality !!!...Maybe this world is a school of hard knocks of reality, and if one is truly passionate (not referred to those who wrongly term it as anger and hate) I feel this is where it refines the spirit of individuals, who undertake the journeys of life itself...
Spiritual love to you and may that be your shield and guide always...Before the fre(a)uds of this world start analysing LOVE too, as done in previous posts if you remember..
jerrygates7 | 07.29.08 - 4:52 pm, another jewnazi assholelicker...
Dear, Xceptionallysmall-Zebra-Penis,
"Look Angel, let's be abundantly clear about this: Just because you have an affliction called: "MPPD" (Multiple Personality Posting Disorder), doesn't mean that everyone else on this forum does also. Perhaps an increase in your meds associated with this disorder is in order..."
XZP (see above for correct name spelling) Please send a big bag of Jamiacan Bud(weiser) to the following address
Ben & Eileen Dover
1100 Pennsylvania Avenue
(the Lincoln Suite)
Washington, District of Columbia, USA
66666-6666
This will certainly cure my affliction and get me back in a humourous mood while helping me to forget about wasting my time asnswering your stupid comment above!
Thanks and have a nice day! Cheers and Piss (taking)!
Harry Butz, Sam Clemenz, Jim Shorts - oh hell, I don't want to give them all away - never mind, forget what I wrote, it was just another one of my hallucinations of rapture, fairies, and angels, kinda like the stuff Richard thinks I write to him- Oh CAT (pant pant pant) you're so spiritually hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! slobber slobber!!!!!!!!!
(I wish I could capture in print - the noise Homer Simpson makes over Beer, or Donuts, I would insert it here!) TTFN!
Hi Richard!!
I thought maybe you were mad at me. I'm glad we are on the same page again. I read your post, either in here or another thread about the Vedas and India. Very interesting about the Nuclear evidence. I read all 6 books of the Earth Chronicles by Zecharia Sitchin in the 1990's. He was talking about the same thing, and also in the Sinai. I have read some of the Upanishads (sorry about spelling) and I think I still have that book.
I'm not positive, Richard, but I think the purpose of our lives is for the experience itself, and the discovery of who we really are, self discovery.
You know, I think the common people have alot more power than they realize. It will take a collective effort to bring down these "houses"; the same families that have been ruling for hundreds of years. Love and truth are always attacked. How is it that people wearing a peace sign on their shirt can now be arrested? Really bizarre. These Globalists are being exposed and they are getting worried because people are seeing right through them.
Thanks Richard, for your nice post.
Love Always, Cat
...
Paul Craig Roberts:
Sorry this thread got off track. Your article was very good. I sent it to my mother. I wish there was more to do besides writing to congress people that do not care or calling the AIpac office which looks at us in contempt.If anyone pickets their offices I imagine they would last about 5 minutes before the swat team was there to pick them off.
kats:
Isabella actually wrote the remark about the Arabs building the Wailing Wall, so my apologies about the confusion. It appears I lost track of who was blaming whom for what and when.
And apologies about the spelling mistake. I didn't catch that until this evening.
Hmm, that last post was mine. Got this new Ubuntu operating system and still trying to figure it out.
And you crazy lovers - Richard and You Know Who - get a freaking motel room.
xzp
no problem my girl
now i know why you got no balls
Angel Gabriel
We got very powerful enemy ,that got a vice hold on Banking and the balls of most if not all politicians ,we need every soldier in our rank to pull his/her share , in spreading the world
xzp is a fine example ,( hope that was not his real name ,that he unwisely posted ..) trying his /her best to understand the underline sinister scheme of events and to spread that knowledge too , like most of us .. I won’t let you attack xzp , nor that moron = Anonymous = No discord please , among the ranks ,it is a favourite recipe that they constantly propagate in all the lands ,it is that trait we are fighting …
what made you see fit attacking xzp , defy logic and decorum too , I do not think ,you would like to do their biding …?!
In some posts of late , you proved that you know the score ..?
Please note , that the worst enemy ( once was a friend ) that operate from within ..
Please make peace with equals ,we are all on the same boat ..sailing dangerous… waters and it is a long way to port
It is the custom ,in high seas to through Mutineers overboard
Raymond, obviously you didn't read the intial folly aimed at me from XZP. If you need to censor me for retailiation, and want to claim equal ground - get yourself off the list of shame - then throw stones - Ok? I remind you also, I'm not particularly fond of you "lister's" (compliment's of XZP, I might add. The one and the same XZP that framed you to begin with).
As far as I'm concerned I'm at war as I mentioned earlier. I'll smoke a cigarette with you (I don't smoke cigarette's) somewhere near the front lines and have a yarn occasionally, but when there's a clash concerning hatred or finger pointing concerned, I will not hesitate to pull the trigger on you if you happen into my sights. Keep that in mind Raymond, we've been here before remember? I'm sure you don't want another embarassing tustle - do you?
Angel Gabriel
I am sure you are fully aware that we are dealing with = Serious Shit = innocent people getting killed, children getting raped, even men molested besides women as the norm in war... Mother Earth getting polluted with DU ..for generations to come .. and the threats of Nuclear Holocaust , is on the cards ..How more bleak could it get … !
No time for jactitation.. that me better then thee .. catch me if you can ( games )
You own it to them, to us and to yourself to get your act together man
Angel Gabriel
List or no list
I do not deal in lists
I deal with man .individually, each on the base of what he/she say
Words are words .that they do not bother me , the least nor lists , he draw a list , so what ,it is his opinion , you could do the same ,no one stoping you , why hold it against him ?
I do not recall, what you called (we've been here before remember? I'm sure you don't want another embarassing tustle - do you? )
I do not keep trophies ..I move on , always for the bigger fish to fry
Angel Gabriel ,I take you as a friend , but I will not turn my back with you , I do with = Richard = and few others like minded poster ,I’ll stop short from drawing a list , I could if I want to , but it is not necessary or warranted either
So Mr , you said ( I will not hesitate to pull the trigger on you if you happen into my sights. )
I will never draw any weapon against anybody , If I do , that means I lost , I do hate losing any dialogue ( I do not argue ..) , so I do not start what I do not finish
Accept a criticism and move on Angel Gabriel
Thanks for the other POVs and criticisms of my Christian professor post. Lots to learn. I did not endorse it as gospel, so lighten up people.
What's my handle? None. Peace visionary, perhaps.
Didn't England set up the Israeli state via the Balfour Declaration in order to have a strategic ally close to the oil shipping channels in the Red Sea? Blame England, blame "The Jews"? Blame, blame, blame.
Who the hell are "The Jews"? I know many Jewish people. None of them are "The Jews". Surely "The Jews" are the most evil people of all.
I must be naiive. Attack me if it makes you feel better for 10 minutes, go for it. That kind of response is the same underlying reason why every religious group in the Mid East is at odds with each other. Be the problem, the cancer, or grow up and be the solution.
Dave
To William C. Carlotti:
My last name is neither Baxall nor Boxwell. I consider it a mark of respect to those I debate with to get their names right. To ensure that I don't make typos with people's names I always copy and paste their names from their own entries. I do this because I don't wish to imply a slight when I don't mean it. Offending people unnecessarily wastes a lot of time when it creates detours around the subject of debate in order to clear up misunderstandings.
I understand that one has to be careful in these written communications because the important body language that constitutes a major portion of communication in person to person encounters is absent here and the words alone, without the segment of the message that is conveyed in tone of voice, posture and facial expressions often leads people to take offence where none is intended. Given that rationality and a consistent employment of critical thinking is not an automatic human response under all circumstances, it seems to me worth the trouble to show people the respect of getting their names right.
You are not obliged to like me, nor I you, but I believe we have a duty to treat other human beings with respect even if we disagree with their views completely and no matter how antagonistic our emotions are towards them.
Now to address my "ridiculous" (as you claim) concern with anti-Semitism:
Currently, Islamophobia is the most significant manifestation of xenophobia in my country leading to these draconian laws that have resulting in the holding of a number of Muslim men in jail without charge for over five years. These harsh laws that Canadians have failed to rise up against remind me of the detention without trial I witnessed in South Africa during the apartheid era under what what was known as the Suppression of Communism Act. (In South Africa it was suppression of communism and now in Canada it is jumping on the bandwagon of the "War on Terror" that our present government seems so keen to join in order to ingratiate themselves with US imperialism. It seems that Canada has a liking for playing junior partner to the great Imperial powers. First it was junior partner to the British imperial power and now it's the US.
I came to Canada at a time when I was under the impression that Canada was leading the charge against Apartheid on the international level. Now I feel, on a visceral level, those same impressions of authoritarian repression that I experienced coming from the South African government many years ago.
Tomorrow I am participating in a rally I have played a small part in organizing:
Tell Stephen Harper: Bring Omar Khadr back to Canada!
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
5:30pm
Vancouver Art Gallery
I am convinced that our government has allowed the US to keep a Canadian citizen in Guantanamo Bay prison long after all other Western countries who had citizens in Gitmo had persuaded the US to send them home. Omar Khadr was taken prisoner by the US invading forces in Afghanistan as a 15-year-old child. According to our treaty obligations Omar Khadr cannot be held responsible for anything he did in combat because he was legally a child soldier. Canada has made a big thing acknowledging the need for rehabilitation rather than punishment of child soldiers in Africa, so I can only think that Omar Khadr is shown no sympathy because he is Muslim.
Omar Khadr goes on trial before a US military tribunal for murder later this year. The Canadian government refuses to intervene in spite of all indications that the court has been set up to ensure convictions. Such is the Canadian national disgrace resulting from Islamophobia.
Islamophobia is also behind Canada's culpability in another of it's citizens, Mayer Arar, being "rendered" to Syria by US authorities in 2002. He was brutally tortured for 10 months until the Canadians finally had him returned after his wife fought valiantly for justice for her husband. Mr. Arar had to take the Canadian government to court to force an apology and damages out of them.
Besides Islamophobia, there is also racism against indigenous people in Canada and I have joined in protesting against that in the streets of Vancouver. I have also participated in public protests against the very notion of illegal immigrants, against the invasion and continuing occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. I was an active participant in the founding of the War Resisters Support Campaign in Canada which is struggling to get our government to give refugee status to US soldiers who refuse to go to Iraq.
I spoke at a number of rallies against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the middle of 2006. I publicly attacked a local Rabbi's sermon that attempted to provide a moral justification for the Israeli attack on Lebanon. I have participated in counter demonstrations to the "Walk for Israel" events. Most recently I was a member of the committee that organized the May 2008: Vancouver's Palestinian Solidarity Month. One of the events we organized was the "Walk for Palestine" the slogan for which was: Al Nakba: 60 Years of Israeli Ethnic Cleansing and Palestinian Resistance
Compared to Islamophobia, the current level of threat to Jews in North America and Europe is almost zero and I have never thought it necessary to get involved in any rally or protest against anti-Semitism or, more properly, Judeophobia.
However, it is not totally gone and I still object to anti-Jewish or Judeophobic remarks or sentiments expressed in this discussion. I know that the Israeli government is guilty of massive brutality, that even children are tortured in Israeli jails, that Israel has nuclear weapons and was most likely responsible for making nuclear weapons technology available to the South African apartheid regime, that Israel sold weapons to right-wing death squads and military dictatorships in central and South America, and that there is a booming security industry in Israel that exports to all over the world what is proved effective in oppressing Palestinians.
However I still condemn Judeophobic statements.
Right now a friend of mine has a SLAPP suit against him brought by my local newspaper. My friend, just turned 70, has a lifetime of struggle for justice for the Palestinian people behind him. The newspaper, The Vancouver Sun is part of the Global media conglomorate which owns newspapers and television stations all over Canada. Global is owned by the Asper family who have publicly stated that their newspapers are committed to supporting Israel. It is clear that they are trying to shut my friend down, neutralize him as an activist for the Palestinian cause, because they have the money to do it. We the little people are struggling to raise funds for legal costs against this monolithic media giant that is attempting to use its wealth to destroy open political debate in Canada. It is owned by a Jewish family and they are ruthless. That is all. It has nothing to do with the thousands of Jews in my home town who struggle to make ends meet any more than it has to do with the millions of non-Jews in my home town who struggle to make ends meet.
I have no doubt that there are a number of obscenely wealthy Jews over in Wall Street who join with a number of obscenely wealthy non-Jews to form a plutocracy that bends the US government to their will, but that's them and I refuse to accept that all Jews have to take responsibility for their evil machinations.
During the Nazi years Canada turned Jews who were seeking refuge away. The refused to let them come to Canada, but then forced them onto the Palestinians. It seems that certain anti-Semites have this thing about "the Jews belong in Israel." Historically there was a rabid anti-semitism amongst Afrikaners in South Africa. By 1960, however, they were waxing lyrical about how the Jews had a kind of apartheid over in Israel and were the natural allies of Apartheid South Africa. Die Burger, the most sophisticated of the newspapers supporting the apartheid ideology ran anti-Semitic cartoons and articles in the early 1900s, but showed absolutely no anti-Semitism when Israel became one of the few allies Apartheid South Africa had.
These right wing Christian fundamentalists that support Zionism today and holiday among the Jews in Israel have a long history of anti-Semitism.As soon as the Jews stop being the embodiment of their wet-dreams about the Second Coming they will slip back into their anti-Semitism.
Of course, you are right about US scapegoating not likely to be against Jews should there be an economic downturn in the immediate future. It is more likely that Mexicans will be seen as taking jobs away from USeans at present and the hysteria surrounding illegals is already quite high-pitched, but I still find it contradictory when supporters of rights for Palestinians feel justified in talking about the genes of Jews.
I find it a little odd, given the full context of everything I've said on the subject, that you continue to imply that I am trying to make excuses for the Israelis. I'd be far more interested to hear what you have to say about my support for the one-state solution. I disagree with you support for a UN resolution that partitioned Palestine. Why are you silent on that issue. What right did the UN have to partition up the historical homeland of the Palestinian People without even consulting them? Why are quiet about the fact that it made no sense for Palestinians to support the partition? Are you, in fact, supporting the idea of a Jewish state within the 1947 borders.
That's another of the disgraceful aspects of Canada's official policy towards Israel. Canada played a major role in pushing through the Partition of Palestine while focussing on Jewish needs and ignoring Palestinians needs at the same time that the Vancouver Club did not allow Jews to become members. I believe that the ant
The Boxall/Carlotti debate is great,and taken up by two intellectual heavyweights in the "moderate" column.
As for me, I;m a jewnazi psychopath for understanding the sentiments of Jews in Israel. Thanks Anonamouse, to know that you don't respect me is ceratinly a compliment.
Angel Gabriel, for one who espouses detente, love and understanding ,you seem to be waxing a bit negative ,don't you? As for Atheo ,he was vital and instrumental in defending south Africans, and Sudanese people when their region was, and still is inflamed with ethnic violence. His work as our achivist showed big love for Somalia's victims of Ethiopian control of Mogadishu. You pinning the white supremicist label on his is bullshit, what;s your game, angel ,you seem a bit loose in your knowledge and tight in you criticism of others.
Angels should concentrate their efforts on positive work or see their wings drop uselessly to their heels.
Take your own advice Angel Gabriel it worked for me, maybe you might benifit from it as well.
It is apparent to many that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians will not be solved anytime soon.
The Israeli leaders have never been interested in peace.
They are too busy fomenting war in the region and the world.
Evil is doing its worse.
Time is running out for sure.
Lighten up everybody, no need for personal attacks. We are after all in the same boat, jews and non jews alike. What WE all love to see is the world united. what is the saying UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL....We all have different points of views, that doesnt mean we should dominate one against the other ( a definite sign of the bully ) We have to focus and decipher the truth from the false, which will always be the case.
I think its when people write on boards such as ICH, there are no images that the mind can conjure, and words written by from people are taken out of context and the beating of the chests starts to roar.
Most of us it seems when reading the comments appear to have one common goal, and that is JUSTICE, PEACE, EQUALITY, EQUITY, LOVE (not the wham bang thank you maam type of love...and spiritual love aint dribble dribble dribble either) and TRUTH. That is why ICH to me at least is famous for its freedom of speech. I couldnt care less if the Rothwell type of aliens were listening to us, or whoever. One must never be afraid to say what one feels.
To Cat my spiritual friend.
Strange as it is, self discovery was and is the key to understanding the self. Carl Yung it appears suffered from Scizophrenia, and discovered to cure himself using a Tibetan Meditation, which involved firstly, facing the mental disease head on, from there using the techniques to cure himself. The prime importance is self discovery on a daily basis, which to me is an emptying out process, recognising and being totally aware of ones emotions on a daily basis, which deletes memories of pleasure and emotional experiences. Thus one is born anew from moment to moment. Most enlightened people have taught this to the attendees.
Unfortunately, Big brother type and unreality shows have grabbed the headlights in society, and hence what you say about the abnormalities is quite true. Sad.
No Cat I could never be mad with you, or come to think of it, with others as well. Having read your previous and current posts, you have not veered of the linear radar scope, but most people have misunderstood you. You are indeed a gem of gems....Eat your heart out G Randy Pimm and Angel.
Raymond Anonymous has had some very bad personal experiences with the Israeli gestapho, and to me from years of debating and conversing with him on ICH, is a good clear intentioned man. He too does feel the injustices in this world, like most would do, when mankind betrays each other in the prisms of thought caught up with their own ethnic conditioning. We all should be striving for as Human beings as ONE UNIT, and to do that is to understand each others' diversity and culture in earnest. Then to pave the way forward by enriching ourselves with one common goal, one common language, one global community, one fair and economic system, one education system not only of the mind but also of the sciences, and finally one Political system for ALL to participate, not leaving it for others to do the job of looking after OUR welfare...The temptation is really too great to put one's hand in the cash register tills...
Cat
"I read all 6 books of the Earth Chronicles by Zecharia Sitchin in the 1990's. He was talking about the same thing, and also in the Sinai. I have read some of the Upanishads (sorry about spelling) and I think I still have that book."
Thanks for the info, I will come back to you on this. However, I am researching into the affects of nuclear radiation and the mutation affects on organisms, such as plants, animal and human life. Since Ancient times, since the advent of nuclear technology then, we annihilated ourselves from ONE UNITARY RACE of beings into various fragment of groups of peoples, as to what we see today. Include also the many monkeys were also part of this mutation from this one single HUMAN UNIT. Therefore making Charles Darwin's theory that we came from Monkeys literally defunct. It is more like Monkeys came from us, as they share the same DNA, but were unable to reach the same intel as us.
Skin radiation under varying temperatures does tan the skin. Can you imagine what nuclear radiation can do ? I dare say that after the nuclear wars, most people vanished like cigarrette ash, but the few that did survive globally, were not the same as the original mccoy. With Deformities people did survive and formed their own groups of people...I need further links as to the survival of the species such as the Nuclear Bomb that was tested by the French in the Pacific.
All searches have come up with zilchm meaning nil. I find it interesting in the psyche of mankind too, whose understanding of how one's brain function, either in linear, serial or parallel processing of information plus the direct emotion one feels, such as love, anger, hate, jealousy, murder, etc etc.
Finally to come in line to what you were saying, is that when mankind understands via the process of self learning, the other parts of the brain, which I feel is locked up, will be free and our expansion of knowledge, be it spiritual or physical reach a higher depth.
Yes you are right, self knowledge has to be the starting point for examining one's emotions, thought processes and also our direct actions towards one another. You hit the nail on the head. I will do some reading on what you posted.
Thanks and Love ...Keep in touch...However, it really takes a lot to get me mad...trust me, my bark is worse than my bite, which is often misunderstood as anger or hate..
To Cat
I hope you like these links, that is just for starters...I have links that connect what Holger Kirsten states about Christ stay in India and Tibet...
http://www.archaeologyonline.net...erif-
vedas.html
http://www.discussanything.com/f...ead.php?
t=89898
http://www.geocities.com/TheTrop...771/
page07.html
Love from Richard
Dave
It seem your intention were honourable but your understanding of the problem seem at the same time, not that far from Zero
The country, it call itself Israel, is but a den of murderers and thieves...
I got tens of link to prove the point ,each link got few articles wrote by real investigative Journalist /writers … I won’t direct you to any in this post ,because if you are a genuine person ,find it yourself ..This forum or any previous ICH forums is full of them... just surprised that you did not check any...???
Simple question .you could ask you
Just suppose, an intruder came to your house (the place you call HOME, place of your affection and security, the environment all your beloved family present and past loved and cherished)
Even the inert trees are part of that home
Check this moving picture that, moves a thousand hearts
http://thumbsnap.com/v/tTKueGa3.jpg
Do you think that woman is crazy?
Do you think that woman accept a financial compensation?
To you Dave (it is just a tree) is it not?
Anyway that intruder, claim that home belong to him and to his family, because he claims it was written in the stars...! He forcibly drove you and your beloved members of your family out , those unwilling he just simply slaughtered ( at a very mass scale ) the rest with intimidation and threats he drove out
Imagine now, that for the last 50 years you and your family endured, most horrific existence living in tents, and chased and prosecuted from all adjacent countries, and for the last 50 years you were subdued to uninterrupted attacks and humiliation from that intruder and his clans
What would you accept Dave, now..?(Presuming you got the imagination to feel, what is to be a Palestinian)
Richard
Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others. –Buddha
Do you agree with that stated?
Though a lot of insights I come to understand from him ,I just do not agree with his advice this time as I see my salvation is link up to all contemporaries and all those past too ,as a fraction of something cannot be a unite in itself it is not logical , no matter how far an individual could soar he never pass the limit of the whole ,simply because he is a fraction of that whole ,so what you stated is correct Richard , we are as strong as our weakest link .. one hates to admit that ,for egoistic foolish reasoning ,But it is the truth ,As only when we all work in unison , and leaning from one another , all pulling in one direction , no one is holier then though , one is only tend to see , what his mind tell him to see , the mind is fertile ground to doctrinarian and product of habit /tradition /custom ,all those veer us from seeing the truth , we fear what we do not understand , and only believe what we happen to understand , as one eastern Philosopher correctly observe the more I know the less I understand , as we all well know that the more we know the more we become humble form the shear infinite volumes of things we become to realise of what we got to faint idea about
And you crazy lovers - Richard and You Know Who - get a freaking motel room.
g. randy primm | Homepage | 07.29.08 - 11:15 pm
g randy,
That is really uncalled for. I have never done or said anything against you personally for you to be so vicious. There is NO reason why anyone in here should start throwing sexual inuendos around. You have no right to implications against my value system over my body. You have no right to display accusations against my sexuality. You are an obvious typical USican Male that has been born and raised in the U.S....and has no respect for the female. If you want to ATTACK then attack my views....not my virtue.
Richard and I have been talking over the months on these threads about our mutual interests in spiritual matters and ancient history, which has NOTHING to do with YOU. I HAVE NEVER SEEN RICHARD ATTACK A WOMAN IN THESE THREADS LIKE YOU JUST DID. HE IS A DECENT MAN. I thought you were but I guess I'm wrong.
...............
Richard,
Thank you for the links. I will be going on vacation starting Friday and hopefully I will have more time to read some of OUR mutual interests. I checked them out briefly and will look more tonight at home. That stuff is so fun to read. Some people dispute Sitchins' work but its so complex and intricate I cannot believe it was misinformation. Nobody would spend that much time researching which he has spent his whole life. He is Jewish, but I do't think he is religious at all. I think he abandoned that...he said when he was a kid he was always in trouble for questioning the Torah.
The Vedic info is most interesting. Thank you for all this food for thought. I love the history of India...but have to admit I'm a beginner.
I hope Holger Kirsten writes another book.
That is really sad about Raymond anonymous being attacked by those israeli thugs. But, I can believe every bit of that. I was following about the journalist that was kept and tortured by the Israelis. This is the Sorrow of the human soul.
Well, I have to get back to work my Friend. Thank you for being such a neat person, Richard. You are indeed a spiritual friend.
Love, Cat
PS, will talk soon.
...
Angel Gabriel--You often refer to people here and myself included as a a "hate monger". I want to ask you an honest question, and this is not meant to be insulting or combative...
It is a simple question--Do you believe that Steven Walt and John Mearsheimer are "hate mongers"?
"As for me, I;m a jewnazi psychopath for understanding (sic!!!) the sentiments of Jews in Israel.
jerry gates | 07.30.08 - 4:40 am,
the presumptuous religious blatherer...
---> g. randy primm 07.29.08 - 11:15 pm
Thanks for clearing it up.
Mr Carlotti--Excellent posts. Have enjoyed reading them tremendously. Keep writing.
---> Cat 07.29.08 - 7:15 am
//People have choices..to buy the Lies..//
Fair enough.
Good to see that the hate crowd is changing it's whine and pulling it's ugly head in!
The air is filled with the sound of Mea Culpa's and the slapping of apologetic backs. It's almost like spring with all the love in the air, now that the pollution has lifted.
Ah, the list, the list of shame, the hater's guide to the universe! The list WILL live on, and may soon appear in chronological order of the "Most despicable Hater of the week, or month, and of course we'll have Oscar's and the America's Got Hate top 10, and the pinnacle "American Hate Idol", followed by Holocaust Hate Survivor.
Jerry, you want me to lighten up huh? My wings will fall off if I keep the pressure cooker on the hate flamers? Oh well, the price you pay I guess for opening the box of hatred and expecting it to be ok through ICH public consensus, and trying to cover up your biggoted remarks by claiming to be and hiding behind a shield of "moderate" Christian salt of the earth Family guy. Oopsie! America is filled with your type of Christian Moralist who like to speak with forked tongue and quote passages out of the bible to bolster their self rightous, self serving positions.
As for Detente?? I never promised you a rose garden Jerry. I told you exactly how I fell about the bigotry, prejudice and moralist self rightousness - that I see Oooozing out of America, and that I have no patience for that rubbish. I also let you know I was at WAR, so what are you yammering on about?
Funny how everyone Awwwwwwwed like a bunch of school girls with a little puppy when I ceased fire to answer your question and softened my flame thrower. Aww shucks folks, did you think that gave you a free pass to start the parade back up again??? unh-uh, it don't work that way, sorry!
You can all take turns with Suzi's "Medal of Hate" once she's changed her tune. I want discernable change, not hollow "mea culpa's" from the Pharisee's praising God's name out of one side of their mouth while scamming the Temple Tax take out of the other, and fighting over the pennies like Jackal's over carrion.
Raymond, I appreciate your position as a Palestinian and my heart goes out to you honestly, but I would encourage you to practice the quiet resolution that Nahida shows. She has the power of 10,000 Volcanoe's behind her! Please get off the public bash-wagon that you seem very comfortable to be on. You make no ground in your rightous battle by feeding the flames, or standing up for the despicable XZP. Better that you start putting alliances together for solutions that might bring about a peaceful resolve, and drop the public hate. In my humble (yeah right) opinion, it's ok to put a light on the attrocities and force the world to see Israel, US and Alliances of profit over humanity for their actions, but joining the lynch mob isn't OK. To remind you of our past squabble - think back to a tag team contest with Mind-Trvlr. You were lucky to have dropped out of that one while you still had(?) hair. When you can afford to throw stones, fire away, I am flexible if you approach in peace, but one hell of a shot if you have a concealed weapon and try to use it.
And to the soon to be Newly Wed's. It sounds as if Richard has gotten back on the anti-psychotic's, and Cat is purring in delight once again. Awww, how sweet! Love and harmony are in the universe once again - please keep it that way, and as Randy suggest's get a room somewhere offline!
C'mon, Anonamouse, let's go at it , buddy, You and me, what do you say? Lets talk! We're not talking now because you say one line and it's just pathetic, Pathetic, do you hear me? SAY SOMETHING!
Peter, er uhhh ;i mean Anonomouse, what's with you? Are you an athiest? I guess you are, a traditionalist? An asshole, a scared rat ,hiding in your dark corner with nothing to say save for you little scared rat tidbits of angst?
I'm a spiritual guy and speak every language in religious circles and also athiest. I speak your language, anonamouse, why not engage me with some of what you feel is right about YOU. Tell me what you think is wrong with the old Testament's religious history of the Jews and their ancient neighbors and we'll discuss it. I'm not just another religious blatherer. I can read you ,my friend and know that your not very bright or even lit at all, just an empty carcass of a person with no mind for how others think. Are you there? Helloooooo in there, why not be here and talk it up anonamousey. SCARED to debate it out in open forum with me? I'm Game!
Your a muderer, arent you? You can't forget, can you? I was there when you did your dirt and saw it with my own eyes and you are afraid of me,aren't you. Nothing to be afraid of here. I'm a nice man and have your best interest at heart. I CAN HEAL YOU. Do you want it? Well... do you?
It's free...... no questions asked, and all questions answered, truthfully. I have the love that you are missing, anonamous,and give it freely,without judgement. That;s nice for you, to be saved, I mean. I have something you want, don't I?.Come and get it and be happy. Happines is underated, my friend. Joy is sweet, love is abiding and you can have it all ,just ask, and be given. Ican offer you much love, peace of mind and contentment, and it's FREE of Charge, come on now, be in the moment.
Judeaism, Atheism, God says, "I would that you were either hot or cold, but because you are luks warm, I will spew you out of my mouth. Do you know what that means to you? It means God likes you if you are an undetermined person, or an agnostic, which provides a pallet for God to imprint his love on for you to give it freely to others. LOVE, want some?
I love you, anonamous! Imagine that, a jew nazi psychopath LOVES anonamous with unconditional love, no strings, no religion just pure spiritual love ,which knows no bounds, is abiding and deep enough to fill you to the top ,forever, if you will but ask for it, you will recieve LOVE.
I'm patient, anonamous, but you are wasteing time with your hate. It;s killing you, I have the good fight to give your soul, and know you need it to resist the bad feelings in your heart towards Jews. Why be a slave to hatred, when you can be loved?
Here's one for you...
Jesus was speaking to a woman whose husband was a Rabbi, or Pharisee in the lexicon of Christ's day. She was a believer in Jesus' philosophy of life. Are you hearing me, anonamous, PHILOSOPHY! She was in big trouble with her husband because he hated Jesus, but loved his religion instead, like so many of the people whom YOU disrespect for their self righteousness. Jesus said to her(I paraphrase),"just do what I have taught you and never mention my name, it isn't important. Be a good, loving wife and obey my teachings(love thy neighbor as yourself) and forget where you learned it, but adhere to your love and your husband will take you back".
Jesus said to never mention his name to her husband,because it meant nothing to him, even if it was so important to her. This is love,anonamouse, not religion. I know much of religion, but more of true love,happiness and joy. Religion is unimportant to me and was the object of Christ's derision as he taught that the priests were wolves in sheeps clothing, which is why I don't go to church, or ask others to. I simply feel love from it's source, regardless of what name anyone goves this spiritual love, I feel it and you will too, if you will open your heart and let it in and know that you are just like Jesus, kicking against the pricks of religion to show unconditonal love in all directions, which is not a dynamic of many peoples spirituality, but it will be you mantra, YOU will Give love in every direction and get it back because you gave it. This is spirituality, not religion.
You are right about me ,in a certain sense, anonamouse, i'm often blathering religios rhetoric, because it is a language which is spoken by billions of humans and I want to know then and talk to them all, as do YOU, or you wouldn't be here, Your here for fellowship, and I;m shareing my heart with you, do you want to be loved without religion in the mix. I have that love too, and will not speak a word of the languages you are not comfortable with, but speak to YOU in YOUR language, because I can and to miss an opportunity to love someone is something I don't feel is right,just because you don't respect me.
You are in God's "cold" category, not committed to a flawed religious doctrin, but completly free of them. GOD LIKES THIS and sees YOU as a new bottle, ready to recieve his New Wine, just made for you and you alone, custom love,just for you.
I speak your toungue, anonamous, and will give you my love with no strings to God,Jesus or religion. I just want you to feel it and get a taste so you know that I'm for real, even if religion is not truly perfect, nor are we, we are worthy of love, giving and getting,and that;s what's important. I am all things to all men, my friend and you ,whether woman or man or on my list to love, as is every human heart,beliver or not,good or not, evil or not, you are worthy of recieving love ON YOUR TERMS, because YOU ARE FREE OF FALSE RELIGION, which makes you my friend!
Angel Gabriel
Sorry I still do not recall what you stated ( To remind you of our past squabble - think back to a tag team contest with Mind-Trvlr. ) what it was about ?Anyway defending the Palestinians or the Iraqi or the Afghanistan or any citizen of any country subjected to crimes , does not make you a citizen of that country
I am no citizen of the above, but of Australia, UK, African country and a Middle Eastern country too
Now do not ask me to reveal my name
Not on your Nelly... LOL
I bear no alliance to any stated or none stated , only affection ,I consider myself a citizen of this World ,brother to all inhabitants alike in form and those non alike too , till death takes me , to place I do not where as I do not know where I came from ,same as you all ,you see we are really on the same boats ,about time we all start rowing together.. I do my part in rowing for knowledge and the unknown knowledge to make it knowledgeable to mine very limited ,restricted capability , I avoid hurting anybody , live and let live outlook ,as I judged with the help of others past thinkers ..that I am not my brother keeper ,nor that I am responsible to make the world keep on turning ..I do my part just to keep on moving ,so must you Angel Gabriel ,( you real name means nothing to me , please do not reveal )
All I know that ,I do not start a dialogue ..that I can not finish , some result in an open end , ( naturaly ) I am not concieted the least ,I know my limitation so must you mate
Cat:
Nobody is attacking you. I am telling you to put a sock in it.
Richard is certifiably insane. He writes absolute rubbish, and hasn't a clue just how nuts he is. If he were to babble this stuff in public he would be snatched by the men in white coats immediately.
Richard is not a "decent man." He froths at the mouth when he perceives he is being attacked and writes vituperative, hate-filled craziness.
Quote: "...although I dont [sic] believe in the death penalty...OFF WITH YOUR HEADS fucking psychopaths, and that goes for that donkey dick, G Randy Pimms..." (1) and to Angel Gabriel, "...RETARD with no ammo left other than your fucked up pickle like brain."(2) Unquote.
1)http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/
article20260_htm/?src=hsn#297058
2)http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/
article20260_htm/?src=hsn#297323
Does that sound like reasoned debate from a "decent" man?
Anyway, you both write this off-topic, insane spirituality crap that does not belong on a political thread and blow kisses back and forth as well. You in particular are gushing over a looney like a prepubescent girl, and it shows, big time.
There are lots of history or religion usenet groups where you could take your discussion. As it stands, you are being - how shall I put this? - RUDE when you hijack the thread.
Stop it. Thank you.
Prim & Proper:
Look, there was no prebubescent kissy stuff, and Richard lives in Australia, dummy. If people want to sign with Love or peace whats it to you? Just wanting to agitate don't you? You and Angel CIA Gabriel are typical Westernized Males who turn everything into something dirty. Your puritanical upbringing that drips of:
"WHITE MALES ARE KING". YOUR IMPOTENT in everything else you do, so its all sexualized itsn't it Prim? You have a problem don't you Prim? So does A.G. the CIA guy. Its so easy to figure out.
How many of you are in here Prim? I can count 5. Easy to identify, because every thread your'e in its the same pattern. I like how you folks twist and turn what people say and zero in on one person or a few.
Shame on You and CIA King-pin Gabriel for USING people like Nahida and Jerry Gates, Peace keepers both. You rant and rave and then throw in everyones face Your great respect for the gentle ones. YOU ARE PHONEYS. And you stop at nothing in making USE of anyone in your path. I know what you are and so do many others in here.
CIA, MOSSAD, AND THE SECRET SERVICE IN OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE U.K. are all criminal organizations. Its nice how you distract and create confusion trying to keep people from the Evil organization that you psychopaths are representing.
But the ULTIMATE EVIL is how King-pin likes to latch on to some of the more genteel folks when the going gets tough for him. Hes an absolute idiot. I cannot understand why people bother to even try to reason with the CIA trash.
FOLKS he is working on the job here. I like how the 5 of them tend to blog on here at intervals. For a while its one then it moves to another.
THEY COULD NOT CARE ABOUT THE MUSLIMS OR THE M.E. OR ANYTHING ABOUT THE KILLING GOING ON!!! They are here observing, confusing, and distracting. That IS THEIR JOB. Period.
Ya, Prim, you and Angel are REAL MEN aren't ya?
I like this bit of twisting the facts:
"As it stands, you are being - how shall I put this? - RUDE when you hijack the thread.
Stop it. Thank you."
g. randy primm
LOL,LOL,LOL............
Give it a break!
It bothers you doesn't it when a white person is friends with someone from another nationality doesn't it Prim? Its ok to YOU when NOT AN AMERICAN ridicules white women, but my GOD when a white woman has an innocent conversation with an Indian, signs her name "love, cat"....that is what bothers YOU. You can't handle not being in the Prime Surpemicist position of White male domination. ICK..... You are an icky man....the kind my friends and I have often laughed over...ALL PUFFED UP not seeing what an ASS you are.
Not either of you either contributed one element to PCR's article.
I have mailed it to a few people, BECAUSE PCR is exactly RIGHT. You and your CIA-gang with Gabey baby, the King-pin, can't stand PCR, can You? YOU Hate TRUTH and LOVE lies...Because you are a bunch of creepy Liars and deceiptful people.
Lets be clear: Not enough is written about the CIA, MOSSAD, AND OTHER SECRET SERVICE....but everyone knows that it is these criminal elements that have been perpatrating crimes against humanity since their inception. That constitutes a trip to the HAGUE.
If you are not involved with these PIGS, Prim, I suggest you stop defending them.
I've known about these people since I started reading here. They are not hard to spot.
I am sure we will get another name calling post from A.G. the CIA mouth piece, but I really don't care what you idiots say, because:
...its all part of your job!
To Lawrence Boxall: Hopefully I have the spelling of your name right this time so we don’t have to suffer your pontifications on “respect” and “slight” and “offense” in this dialogue.
You wrote, “I know that the Israeli government is guilty of massive brutality, that even children are tortured in Israeli jails, that Israel has nuclear weapons and was most likely responsible for making nuclear weapons technology available to the South African apartheid regime, that Israel sold weapons to right-wing death squads and military dictatorships in central and South America, and that there is a booming security industry in Israel that exports to all over the world what is proved effective in oppressing Palestinians.”---that is what Paul Craig Roberts’ essay that generated these comments is all about.
But you write, first,
“What scares me about it is as follows:
In the middle ages, the ruling classes scapegoated the Jews to deflect the anger of the lower classes from their rulers.”...and you write, “Now as we face a similar threat of a severe breakdown in the global conomy we can respond with scapegoating and calls for vengeance, like that misguided fellow above who wants to bomb Israel off the face of the Earth,…”
And then you write, second,
“Of course, you are right about US scapegoating not likely to be against Jews should there be an economic downturn in the immediate future.’
If this second statement is correct, why in the world did you provide us with the first statement except to raise the spectre of a non-existent anti-semitism in the context of Paul Craig Roberts’ reasoned presentation of the revelation that someone reached an epiphany of understanding as a consequence of reading and seeing the slaughter of innocents engendered by the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government engaged in the Palestine beyond the 1947-48 internationally recognized border of Israel.
You also write,
“During the Nazi years Canada turned Jews who were seeking refuge away. The refused to let them come to Canada, but then forced them onto the Palestinians. It seems that certain anti-Semites have this thing about "the Jews belong in Israel."
You are correct about your statement about certain anti-semites but, what you have omitted is that the World Zionist Organization with its branches in Canada and in the United States also have “…this thing about ‘the Jews belong in Israel’” and actively opposed entrance into Canada and the United States and supported, economically and organizationally, the transfer of Germany’s Jewish population to Palestine.
In fact, the German nazi led government’s SS entered into an agreement with the Zionist Federation Of Germany that has become none as the Ha’avara. You can read about this agreement at http://www.thevoicenews.com/news...sponse/
R01.html
“The negotiations for the agreement were initiated six months after Hitler came to power by the Zionist Federation of Germany (by far the largest Zionist group in the country), which submitted a detailed memorandum to the new government. The memorandum reviewed German-Jewish relations and formally offered Zionist support in "solving" the vexing "Jewish question." The first step, it suggested, had to be a frank recognition of fundamental national differences:
"Zionism believes that the rebirth of the national life of a people, which is now occurring in Germany through the emphasis on its Christian and national character, must also come about in the Jewish national group. For the Jewish people, too, national origin, religion, common destiny and a sense of its uniqueness must be of decisive importance in the shaping of its existence … because we, too, are against mixed marriage and are for maintaining the purity of the Jewish group and reject any trespasses in the cultural domain, we—having been brought up in the German language and German culture—can show an interest in the works and values of German culture with admiration and internal sympathy …"
As a result, the Hitler government vigorously supported Zionism’s proposal for Jewish emigration to Palestine from 1933 until 1940-41. So thorough was the collaboration that the SS became particularly enthusiastic in its support for Zionism’s transfer agreement. SS officer Leopold von Mildenstein and Zionist Federation official Kurt Tuchler and their wives toured Palestine together for six months to assess Zionist development there. Based on his firsthand observations, von Mildenstein wrote a series of twelve illustrated articles for the important Berlin daily Der Angriff that appeared in late 1934 under the heading "A Nazi Travels to Palestine," praising the success of the transfer agreement. The publishers of Der Angriff issued a special medal, with a swastika on one side and a Star of David on the other, to commemorate the joint SS-Zionist visit. A few months after the articles appeared, von Mildenstein was promoted to head the Jewish affairs department of the SS security service in order to support Zionist migration and development more effectively.”
So all the prattle about the Jewish Zionist collaboration with the anti-semitic Christian Zionist of John Hagee’s ilk is just that---prattle. That is how anti-semitism is put to use in the onslaught against the Palestine beyond the 1947 internationally recognized border to Israel and that is how your nonsense that raises the spectre of anti-semitism is the canard that serves as the bulwark of defense for the Israeli actions.
The Bat who thinks he is an Angel...
Please remember my sayings....
"When Angel and You Ramses the XXXXXIV start putting the blame on the real criminals; the right wing jews, and not protect the Chimpskies of this world, then I will take you seriously....."
Till then all bets are off, and heh !! who the bloody hell do you think you are ? Raymond Anonymous has suffered immense pain emotionally as well as physically, and you come over here rendering judgement...I have proved you wrong before, and you are still singing that out of tune on the same chorus....Get out of denial and join the human race, and stop picking on Jerry, even though I dont see eye to eye with him on his religious grounds, he is still to be respected....Dont forget he too is suffering from some sort of physical disability....
And you talk of bravadoes as to how the USA has been let down by your politicians etc etc ramble ramble rambling rose, by you dont wish to see the truth that its the CHIMPSKIES of the world who have a hidden agenda that are pulling your doodle all along...How else do you think they get away with ? Quite naturally by people like you who blindly support these assholes in the first place...The world has woken up, and you are behind, with that fractured logic and 'wrong again' nitus, which you are spewing forth....If you are looking for Justice start by looking in the right direction, no matter how painful the truth IS.
That is why people like Xzp and many others have more credence than the bile you come out with. Agreed with most of what you state, but I detect a weak link, particularly when people are trying to be friends with you, and then you go on your sadistic chest beating again, 'I am at WAR again' (Man you slipped up with this phrase again, it just shows that you are filled with anger and hate, which needs to be tempered to PASSION, hence a rambling lunatic psychotic....which the Pimm character, who says is a psychologist cannot face this fact about you...brothers in war and arms I suppose ) and to add insult to injury, Both of you analysed and damaged Cat reputation with your sexual frustrated inuendo's ...Man get a life for Christ sake and have that brain box of yours fixed once and for all, dont relate everything from your victorian sexually damaged upbringing to sexuality....All I can see a sadistic streak in your nationalistic pride almost reminding me of nazies themselves....Havent you heard this is exactly what fascism is all about ? Reflect on this for a while if you are serious, and please, get away from that gin and tonic you are drinking or sniffing that coke, or whatever you are taking...I have witnessed that people on drugs (as well as alcohol) lose their cognitive powers (over a period in time) And you seem to be that classic case....A good thinker gone wrong, and the culprit your psychological thought, those demons I was talking about earlier...
Either your a silly billy SIMPLETON like Don Quixote fighting invisible windmills, and not facing the real enemy OR you are the perfect shill out here to disrupt and decieve, simple as ABC...with the clever ruse that your country has been hijacked, getting people to look the other way, and pointing your two fingers up, in the wrong direction...A clear smoke signal.
What gave you away, was your continuing harassing attack on Atheo, xzp, Jerry, Raymond, and me plus and many others, strangely we are fighting for the truth and provided many links, which you have provided to date NONE, which has shown the true identity of the criminals who have not only hijacked your country but many others too, plus robbed us all of our most precious and important resources which are controlled by the World Banks run by zionist jews. I wish they were other ethnic groups that did this, but sadly at the expense of ordinary and innocent jews, that the bitter sweet truth points to the criminal jewish elites and their whores who number in the smallest percentage, that its them and no other, now if it were others, I and many others would expose them too. No qualms about national identities or religious groups (which seems to be the trigger for the motivations)
By the simple fact of your attacks on us, the fact therein proves you are a shill, please flutter flutter away into oblivion...You are as deceptive as a fox than a pretented simpleton bat (angel) out of hell.
If you continue to play GOD dear BAT-ANGELwitzh-man, I will treat you with the contempt you richly deserve, and I wont let you off the hook, as wrongly assume that i have come to terms with your crooked reasonings, plus the fact, if you cannot answer me those questions from previous posts, as to 9/11 etc etc, which you seem to be evading very cleverly, then I have to conclude, the answer is in the condela rice proof pudding you have been eating, which your regurgitate over and over. Ironically, NOT KOSHER, and that you are a kosher nostra Klansman in disguise.
Get it, you are a nothing but a devious SHILL, and my dear fellow, you have been exposed yet once again. ...Get a grip on reality and dont let your thoughts run away with you and the fairies who prompt you with delusions of grandeur.....
Until you reconcile yourself with the facts that surround you and respond in a normal and sane manner, other than your vulgar gutter like responses, to my earlier questions, then I have to give you a MISS, which often makes me wonder as to your cognitive powers of reasonings other than to conclude my findings on you.
NO folks, please this aint hate, just the same line of questioning as he did to Atheo, and a strange coincidence that leads me to think otherwise on his attacks on Jerry, xzp, and others. The hidden agenda to veer us away from exposing the real Kosher NOstra criminals the zionist jews, so I would like to get the record straight once and for all...He does present some comments, and at times shows that he has a decent streak in him, but then again, doesnt face nor reply to very important questions as to who really are responsible....i.e. all those the false flags that were responsible for this insanity...I agree, that anyone can have their heroes, be it Chompksy or the Goodmans of the world, but to defend their stance, particularly, when they dont answer the vital questions of 9/11 and all those false flag atrocities, which I mentioned, then I will conclude that Chompsky, and his supporters like Angel are very very clever shills to deviate the course of justice, which ironically he demands....Chew on that for a while Angel...The minute you reply with your vitriolic hatred and anger, you will destroy your credibility, not forgetting that you are indirectly supporting EVIL which was committed for a heck of a long time, and that KARMA will either pay you off in this or the next world...Just dreamily think of it...Then we can have a serious discussion here...Like I said to earlier, the minute I started to be nice to you, off you come with your sarcastic and your hidden anger filled with hate response. And on top of that you insult Cat and others who dont toe to your compliant thinking pattern. CHECK MATE !!!
Richard,
You are right, its just a ruse. A.G. attacked me about a year ago when I first started commenting. Then he started the buttering up junk. I knew what he was doing the whole time.
He uses Raymond, and others to keep some semblance of a "character" here.
He and his Co-horts, which I count about 4, could care less about the Palestinians, Iraqis, or Afghans.
He really messed his cover up this time though. Obviously, by the insight of many people here, He is exposed.
CIA are responsible for countless murders around the globe. These people, whether part of a global zionist conspiracy, or Not, should be charged with Crimes Against Humanity.
I think someone up above was right, though. The CIA is there to protect the Global interests of the Zionist/Neo-Con Elites.
His employer is headquartered in Langley Virginia. Doesn't matter where they live as this outfit has satellite office around the globe.
Sick people.
Cat,
Thanks for visiting my blog. Always nice to have someone poking around seeing how other people think.
Don't really know what I am. I am not a Christian that is for sure. I don't think the Entity exists and would like more proof. Agnostic maybe as you suggest. What turns me off mostly about the believers is their arguments. They really do stumble about and strike me as mere salesman. God can be and do anything. Anybody can say something like that. They simply lack credibility in my mind. They are gigantic spinners just like the politicians.
That is why I did a post about the philosopher David Hume. Now, here is a guy who everyone respects. He has stood the test of time as regards philosophers. And, he was a big time atheist with some good arguments against the believers. You simply have to invoke logic and common sense into the debate. The religionists fail to do that and that is why they appear weak. Their crutch is faith and that is not good enough for me.
The people who go to church are at a disadvantage. Like you say they are brainwashed. And, I think that is the essential problem in the U.S. There are too many Christians - too many religious people. Is that a stupid prejudiced statement? I do not think it is. Look at the condition of the U.S. today. You cannot be a president without exhibiting some belief in the Entity. So, lots of people, good people are excluded from the top spot. The country is awash with charlatans spouting off nonsense on Sunday afternoon looking for handouts. How many of these people have turned out to be frauds? You know the names as well as I. The problem is gullibility. The evangelicals support Republicans, and have for a long time. So, once again I take aim at religion for supplying these people to a war monger president. Get my point about the country being too religious? So, I really do not know what I am. I just want to find out the truth. It is guys like David Hume who I think will get me closer to where I want to be though.
My phone number is on my blog. If you are popping into town one weekend show up at the track and I will try and show you how to make some dough. If the ponies are running properly that is.
Will check out that video link that you supplied now. Cannot believe all of these comments. Wow.
Good luck.
Richard | 07.30.08 - 7:15 pm |
Stellar and superlative post Richard. I appreciate your kind words of support. Your perspectives, opinions and input is greatly appreciated and needed on the ICH forum!
Your comments re: Angel are correct. Jews and their sayanims and trolls/shills on this forum are about subterfuge, tricks, ploys, deception and most all: their psychological head games of ideological subterfuge. Jews and their trolls/shills on this forum want desperately to "get inside your head" and play tricks and ideological subterfuge with your mind. But, we're on to them. Message to Jew trolls and shills on this forum: Your strategy and tactics ain't working
Thanks again Richard.
Cheers and peace.
To William C. Carlotti
You write:
‘To Lawrence Boxall: Hopefully I have the spelling of your name right this time so we don’t have to suffer your pontifications on “respect” and “slight” and “offense” in this dialogue.’
Why "hopefully"? Either you took the trouble to be respectful or you did not. What the rest of the sentence feels like is disdain fueled either by arrogance or insecurity. Is it so difficult to just say: "Sorry that I got your name wrong"?
As for the rest of your account of the history shared by the Zionists and the Nazis, I believe your retelling of the established facts is flawless. I have no argument with anything you say except for your last paragraph where, once again, you accuse me of defending Israeli actions. Sorry, canards or not, I just don't see how any of my statements lead you to conclude that I am defending the actions of the Israeli state. I am merely saying that it is evil and counter-productive to be anti-Semitic when condemning the Zionists state for it's criminal actions.
Essentially Zionism is a movement which began with a small group of Jews saying to the anti-Semitic, racist, nationalists of Europe: “Yes, you are right. We are a polluting influence in your midst and we don't belong in your society. Let us go off and found our own society." Imbued with the European racism that came with European colonialism, Herzl was shocked, when he first visited Palestine and the Middle East to find that there were Jews who were not Europeans.
So essentially, these European Jews, imitating the other Europeans, began a colonizing venture in Palestine, much as Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands and Great Britain had been doing in the Americas during the preceding 400 years and in Africa at the very time that Zionism was getting started.
There are instances on record indicating that, with an undertaking to the Nazis to keep the jews compliant, the Zionists managed to get the able-bodied Jews directed towards Palestine while the infirm where packed off to the death camps.
I have no evidence to support this, but it looks to me that when the selections for transports took place, the Jewish collaborators ensured that the first to go to the death camps were the members of the Jewish Bund—the Jewish anti-Zionist socialist movement. The Zionist response to racism and the oppression of Jews was to become racist oppressors themselves. The Bundist response was to fight for equality for all. For example the Polish Bundists fought with the Polish resistance against the Nazis.
The Bundist outnumbered the Zionists by far in pre-WWII Europe. Most of the Bunidists died in the death camps. The uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto was largely a Bundist resistance with the help of a smaller group of leftwing Zionists (a minority within the Zionists who were rather confused to my mind)
There were two possible responses to the Nazi Holocaust: The racist Jewish tribalism of the Zionists or the fight for universal human rights of the Bundists. I go with the Bundists solution.
I don't believe the Jewish state had a right to come into existence. I don't believe the United Nations had a right to partition Palestine and then add insult to injury by giving the jewish minority a majority portion of the divided land. It is interesting that Afrikaner intellectuals tried to give legitimacy to Apartheid ideology by citing the legal precedent set by the UN in partitioning Palestine.
All of the above not withstanding, I still don't think it serves the Palestinian interests to talk about Jewish genes. There is no need to label all Jews with racial and religious inferiority in order to question the legitimacy of the Zionist state. So I don't know who you are fingering when you say, " . . . all the prattle about the Jewish Zionist collaboration with the anti-semitic Christian Zionist of John Hagee’s ilk is just that---prattle." You are still avoiding the real issue between us, though, with your ongoing unfounded accusations that I am defending Israeli actions.
So once more I challenge you to tell me here in this public forum: Do you support a Jewish state inside the borders set by the United nations in 1947. My position is that a new state in all of Palestine that ensures the dignity and rights of all of its citizens has to replace the current mess. The Jews of the world have no need of a Jewish state, particularly if that state is founded on the persecution of others.
But let me make it clear, nothing is an excuse for xenophobia directed against Jews, even if it is a relatively minor problem compared to racism against the majority of people on earth. That is my only point about anti-Semitism. It is not meant to make any excuses for the bullying of the Palestinian People and the plundering of their property. It is not meant to deny that the victims of Hitler have learnt well from their victimizers how to victimize the Palestinians. As Edward Said expressed it about 25 years ago: "The Palestinians are in the unfortunate position of being the victims of history's victims." The history of Jewish victimhood has given the Zionist a ticket to behave with impunity as though they are above the laws that govern everyone else; it is a ticket that is letting them get away with murder and this must stop. There can be no exceptions to the primacy of international human rights law. Providing for a Jewish state simply perpetuates the injustice.
There is a story from South Africa that relates to justice and reconciliation that I think applies to Israel and Palestine as well. The story goes something like this:
Joshua and John are two good friends who go to school together every day. John has a bicycle and one day Joshua steals John's bicycle. For the next year, John watches through his window as Joshua cycles past on his way to school riding John's bicycle. They don't talk to each other all year.
One day they come face to face in a chance encounter and Joshua says to John: Look John, this never speaking to each other is silly. Why don't we forget all this nonsense that has been going on between us all year and be friends like we used to be."
"Yes, but what about the bicycle," asks John.
"Don't be silly, John," responds Joshus, "This is about friendship not about the bicycle."
The point of the story is that until the bicycle is restored to its owner it is always going to be about the bicycle.
My take on this is that reconciliation between Palestinian and Jew is not possible until Israel and Israeli Jews acknowledge the Nakba, i.e., they have to acknowledge that the Israeli state was founded on the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian People. That is not going to be easy and mindless anti-Semitic or Judeophobic diatribes by none-Palestinians is doing a disservice to Palestinians.
xzp and Cat
Thanks for your support, I do appreciate your contribution to align oneself to the truth. We will get there eventually, its quite obvious life is a school of hard knocks, and we have to persist for the truth in this dark age, till we breathe that last gulp of air.
By the way if anyone think that this is off topic to what is being directed to Raymond below, it isnt, its relevant to why this whole crazy mess we are living in today's world. Therefore, if you dont like it, please skip it, muchos gratios.
Raymond Anonymous 23
"Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others. –Buddha
Do you agree with that stated? "
Firstly I dont agree nor do I depend on the Buddha, Christ or anyone for that matter Ray, but I do like what they had to say and relate it to reality of why or what these englightened people were trying to communicate to us. Remember these people didnt have any dependence on money nor power, but only on the goodwill of people. In other words no motivational factor be it psychological or otherwise.
Sad as it may appear hero and follower worship has been the destructive force in religions world wide, ironically, when these enlightened people try to free mankind from the tyranny of psychological thought which they had built in from fears, illusions, delusions and their conditioning. From blind adoration to highly charged fanatic followers that arose to contradicting the very tenets in the end, which is also visible in christianty and many other religions today, therefore, whom I find are totally and emotionally insecure, particularly when it comes to the natural act of dying in the end, where everyone has to go anyway, but Nobody likes facing this FACT, but hang to all sort of illusions built in by fear itself. So we come to PSYCHOLOGICAL FEAR which limited thought cannot solve. Only via intelligence and being aware of it constantly without comparison nor conclusion. No not the tibetan form of meditation but the true word of meditation of being aware of the thing being meditated upon.
Again, with no intention of being rude to you or anyone who is deeply religious (its not my intention to preach, criticise. nor convert, but just to let you and others know where I stand on this subject.
This is like the witchdoctor syndrome, meaning he knows and that others dont know, and he holds the chief and the hypnotised clan, to his way of thinking or the highway, this subtle fear holds the herd/cattle together, or if they challenge the status quo, they are left out alone by themselves in the wilderness of that society. Like today in most societies, they too have played a significant factor in holding the herd/cattle sheeple together, what is generally called the compliance factor.
I dont believe in organised religions. And if one looks deeply into the BELIEF structure in any of isms, this to me is the cancer of humanity. I know we had this discussion many years ago, and it has been tested to be a TRUE FACT. The elites like the witch doctors syndrome to hold the sheeples in the pen figuratively speaking.
Heh ! saying this doesnt mean that all people who believe in religion are all bad or misguided, there are many good ones out there in the wilderness who I feel like you Raymond who is totally opened and learned if I may so, while who are not like you, should open and expose their minds to the truth that is if they are LOVERS OF THE TRUTH. How can anyone who is deeply entrenched in solid ideas, like a fanatic have truth come to him or her ? I sincerely ask ?. Rather than clinging to old ideologies (which binds them like leg irons which makes them prisoners of their own thoughts)
To me anyway Ray, one doesnt have to be a member of the human race CLUB, religious or non religious clubs; atheists agnostics etc etc. Where to have freedom of speech or voice one's opinion, one must eradicate these types of membership rules which is really tied in deeply with the compliance herd factor. One must be free from these constraints to discover the entity of 'one without beginning and without end' Like I stated earlier, I dont know if it was you or someone that I had this discussion with. Well to me Raymond and I dont wish to put a gun to anyone's head to believe what I state, that the CREATOR cannot be comprehended by our limited human mind, it just isnt possible.
We all know that the creator exists, okay lets get that definition on the road, or else or life on earth and in the galaxies would be meaningless, all this random theories is the invention of limited thought. But by awareness and meditation there is only PERCEPTION that is not brought nor conceived by psychological thought. But when thought touches this perception as with what the enlightened ones were saying, then this thought corrodes it, hence the mess today of organised religions.
So can the mind answer this timeless age old question about the origins and how this entity came into existence ? that is without beginning and without end. Human, animals, plant life all have an origin and an ending, is that agreed ? Then in all honesty can the mind discover the origins of GOD itself. NO definitely not, all these lame excuses, such as he was always there, and that we are random species, where in fact we originated from BACTERIA. Now how can this bacteria know or even comprehend the eternal, do you see my point ?
Man's arrogance has no boundaries, even linking all the computers in the world put together will not come up with an answer......hence the final start and ending root of all investigation conclusions is that thought is FACTUALLY limited, and from this limitation we have created a fragmentary world.
That is why I inquire as to the messages of what the enlightened had to say. And discovered that the common thread in all the tenets, the only way to live in this world peacefully, is by way of truth, compassion and justice and LOVE, which psychological limited thought destroys all the time.
My question dear sir, DOES mankind live by those compassionate ethics ? How can they ? when each one is justifying and imposing their life onto others. Almost like in the animal kingdom where they have their heirarchical peer system.
As the results are so obvious, Ray, with this limitated intelligence, we have created a mess, be it zionists or whoever will be in charge next time around. Man will finally FUCK (sorry for this language) the whole universe, as he has done since 2 billion years ago, unless he is in SELF KNOWLEDGE MODE and AWARENESS mode...from a learning process which never stops, till we take that last gasp of air it seems...That is why life on earth is a school of hard knocks, some say it sucks, but its there for a strange reason, and there are some mighty lessons WE as humans have to learn.
Saying this, have people learnt or not or are they just concluding by their petty little lives and accepting the corruption by the very people who control and poison the truth in our lives....
Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, the Jewish people and Jewish politicians (Zionists)have developed into paranoid psychotics. Even the most apologetic of them, for example, like the Rabbis who have accepted Jesus Christ, will give us 380 good reasons why the Jews have bad attitudes. You know, all the suffering they're endured. Like life has been a cruise for the rest of us. Not that they're the only ones with bad attitudes.
People who have studied Zionism like me find the whole thing very scary. Their own writings condemn them. They are so crazy they don't see that.
I am one of those who has concluded...after watching hours and hours of video and film and reading and hearing hundreds of witnesses that the 9/11 attach was committed by Israel. Once you decide that the buildings were demolished by demolition charges, all roads lead to Israel...the smug, arrogant, chosen schahall. Who else would do it? The poor little girls in pink dresses.
If there's a serious depression in this country I think you're going to find Jews hanging from telephone poles.
Cat:
When I was in the Navy, the NSA tried to recruit me to be a translator, but I turned them down because I'm too puritanical to listen in on other people's private conversations. Other than that, what does the CIA have to do with your all-too-obvious infatuation with Richard's mystical bullshit?
In that vein, no, I don't appreciate your kissy-kissy stuff on a political comment board, or your religious / spiritualism and 15 million year-old civilizations either, for that matter.
As far as there being four (or more ) of me, you obviously have me confused with someone else, as I can actually write a coherent sentence without it becoming a paranoid tirade, unlike most of the regular Haters on this board. My doppelgangers don't seem capable of that, sadly.
As far as you finding me here suspiciously all too often, I might point out that I find you and Richard, and atheo and xzp and several of the anonymouses here all too often as well. My excuse is that I have been a subscriber of ICH since Day One, about four years ago. (As an aside, Haloscan comments was only partially enabled in March of 2006, so folks who boast that they have been posting "for years" are exaggerating.) I might also point out that I have been a political activist for over forty years, so yes, I spend a lot of time on political usenets and blogs, all over the place. Politically, I am an anarcho - syndicalist (you should look that term up), and thus a bitter foe of authoritarianism of any kind, size, shape or color, but most of all, religion.
Regardless, in the better parts of the Internet, people who hijack threads are considered boors, and are usually asked to cease and desist, so my request to you to stick to something at least marginally pertinent to the conversation has zero to do with your femininity, but rather to your lack of manners, of which you seem to be oblivious.
So, I'm going to ask you one more time to knock off the ancient civilizations/supernatural stuff and stick to the subject at hand, which is politics.
Cat:
When I was in the Navy, the NSA tried to recruit me to be a translator, but I turned them down because I'm too puritanical to listen in on other people's private conversations. Other than that, what does the CIA have to do with your all-too-obvious infatuation with Richard's mystical bullshit?
In that vein, no, I don't appreciate your kissy-kissy stuff on a political comment board, or your religious / spiritualism and 15 million year-old civilizations either, for that matter.
(We will, for the moment, ignore the highly illegal death threats and abuse coming from Richard, as he is obviously deranged.)
As far as there being four (or more ) of me, you obviously have me confused with someone else, as I can actually write a coherent sentence without it becoming a paranoid tirade, unlike most of the regular Haters on this board. My doppelgangers don't seem capable of that, sadly.
As far as you finding me here suspiciously all too often, I might point out that I find you and Richard, and atheo and xzp and several of the anonymouses here all too often as well. My excuse is that I have been a subscriber of ICH since Day One, about four years ago. (As an aside, Haloscan comments was only partially enabled in March of 2006, so folks who boast that they have been posting "for years" are exaggerating.) I might also point out that I have been a political activist for over forty years, so yes, I spend a lot of time on political usenets and blogs, all over the place. Politically, I am an anarcho - syndicalist (you should look that term up), and thus a bitter foe of authoritarianism of any kind, size, shape or color, but most of all, religion.
Regardless, in the better parts of the Internet, people who hijack threads are considered boors, and are usually asked to cease and desist, so my request to you to stick to something at least marginally pertinent to the conversation has zero to do with your femininity, but rather to your lack of manners, of which you seem to be oblivious.
So, I'm going to ask you one more time to knock off the ancient civilizations/supernatural stuff and stick to the subject at hand, which is politics.
Cat | 07.30.08 - 7:03 pm |
Simply proud to have you around ..
It is so Uplifting to see people like you around on ICH ,speak with logic and true great true love to all Mankind , Those people your focused your post on are mere drop out from the true spirit of MAN , The scrums always operate in murky water , they could not /not capable of handling the light , they cannot comprehend further then their closed indoctrinated mind , could go .. Their life enclosed in a cocoon ,running round and round in a concentric circles.. feel sorry for them ,and sorry for our race to have people like them around ,looking like us Homo sapiens Natural Freakishness .. I said it before they seem they did not progress from our primitive existence , they simply regressed
Good on you = Cat = Welcome to the Band
"(We will, for the moment, ignore the highly illegal death threats and abuse coming from Richard, as he is obviously deranged.)"
g. randy primm | Homepage | 07.31.08 - 12:42 am |
Typical psychologist who will always term others as dangerous when they dont look in the mirror, like a psycho in disguise and see by the very words of accusing others that they themselves are the real fuckwit.
Could you dear mr primm, state word for word or line for line or quote where I made those death threats ? Maybe in your nightmarish stand with your own ego.
Pray how did you come to this conclusion ? Why do isolated retards get it wrong all the time, is it you dont like being criticised ? Or do you feel threatened or losing your credibility or all what you invested in this humbug psychology all those years, or is it that you are so bored that you wish to pick on women who are vulnerable to you and that bully Angel. Or is that you really belong to some nutter's association to derail anyone who dont toe to your line de-authorisation, or simply you have lost your humbug skill in analyses ?
You say you have been a political activists for 40 years, man how come I havent heard of you ? Maybe you were nitpicking sexualities among she-males like yourself and depicting others as having deranged problem. Man you ought to read your comments, sounds so much like that Freud to term everything to sexuality. You sure you arent his reincarnation. ???????
My My oh the control freak mr primm, cant stand the heat, dont come here lecturing to me about how much you cant stand any authority, when you contradict yourself. Your ego is busting out all over, with contradictions that would make an insane man look sane.
Please look at your illusions and have that conversation with that alter ego of yours, and stop harassing us over here. I cannot believe the horseshit is being processed by your manufactured uni-like-mimicking-ironic-authoritarianism compliant brain lacking the intelligence other than a boot licking society moron.
Heh !! Mastermind, see if you can interpret this, from the past, that is history, humanity can learn from those errors, what do you propose to repeat those same mistakes over and over again with the genocides from your deranged analysis ?
What should we should talk about airy fairy subjects such as going to motel rooms and practising the Kama Sutra ? Now who is in violation and veers off the subject of POLITICS ?
You appear to be dictatorial and not a bitter foe of authoritarianism. If most of the bloggers insist that we dont talk of this issue, all well said and done. But like I said, I was proving my point, that is if your educated robotic mind can comprehend the same situation that occurred before in the past, and WE ARE REPEATING THE SAME FUCKING MISTAKE...And you got the nerve to tell us in your emminence you are educated. My bloody foot, you are manufactured by the foot boot licking stamp approved by the so called bitter foe for authority...
ARe you forgetting just recently you went off air and told us about your family history and what your name stood for ? And wasnt that off topic ? Now you come in charging like a fascist bully in a china shop and insist that we talk on your bloody terms.
Maybe you are the obvious deranged idiot in denial and like to push that to me to suit your paranoid sadistic ego similar to your buddy in arms Angel.
Cat is right about you, you seem to have the same profile as those who are in authority; CIA, maybe who knows you could be one of them in disguise pretending to be a bitter foe of authoritarianism. We have exposed one idiot, now maybe the heat is really on, so in you come marching picking on the innocents, and using your tactics to ban a friendly conversation. Typical wont you say of a bully, and to add to it, insult people with your sexual innuendos, do me a favor, go to that motel and FUCK YOURSELF.
Heh sicko, you are maligned reject of the society that has produced you. And I think you need help, but sad to say, psychology cant help you, but you knew the answer already, so why the pretence. What I could suggest however, is get a lobotomy of that your true identity; soul mate, the alligator, which will suit you to a T. Maybe you will find happiness in eating cats,(sorry cat not intended to you...just a figure of speech) dogs, and stray humans.
Tell me Dr Sicko, where did I make these so call death threats, maybe you been translating your own demons in line with that of your ass licking buddy Angel.
Could you cut and paste it and translate it to your wrongly held analysis, or be genuine and ask for an explanation rather than shoot the messenger. Judging by that I hope people who have read my comments and your verdict, come to the conclusion that you are a total fuckwit, with no creditation to your self worth, which includes that sexual remark you made about CAt and me. Boy some mothers do have them !!!! You most definitely need theraphy, get it quick and take that gem of an idiot Angel with you too.
By your insulting behaviour as to who associates with who and naming those who have exposed the criminals in power, is typical, controlling not only sheeples and come on this board and tell us who to associate with. Is the truth getting to you. Dont think for a second I didnt anticipate this in hindsight. I am now prepared for a showdown with you too. Who are you working for ? (oh here we go again I am threatening you....must be deranged...get the straight jacket...dear or dear)
Since you have been commenting on this thread, at last you are exposed like your she-male pervert Angel, who distorts a false reality to suit your demented controlling freakish ways.
It wont work G Randy, as your name suggests, as to what is roaming in your freud-like-oedipus complex, or does Randy mean you have sexual fantasies with your mother ?...OF course a fan of that fraudelent freudian pyschology, you would jump to this quite naturally as a duck to water.. Is this what oedipus complex really means to you ?
Remember we can get rough with you too, you just cannot have it your way with abuses like Angel and That demented right wing jewish Bush you put into power (check his and that of Cheney's lineage too. before you rant and rave as WE are the haters, it is you who needs A REALITY CHECK and to come out of the hypnosis that you put others into)
You forget we can give you a taste of your own medicine. So what is this ? Telling us to knock of this ancient civilisation supernatural stuff, tell me who the hell do you think you are ? If your stupid brain with all the crap you studied cannot link the politics at that time to today, then I think you ought to go back to school yourself and relearn simple ethics, morality and the POLITICAL SYSTEM run by your SLAVISH MASTERS the banking elites, I mean actually read, not analyse, and LINK it and RELATE IT today's politics,asshole.
Let me explain or better still purchase the dummy's-guide-to-understanding simple language and syntax, to to tell your right hand from your left hand, your arse from your elbows, and the simple fact of life, and it aint all about sex which is predominant in your bestial mind.
Those corrupt POLITICS derived by people like you, who reinforce this power in the control of people, using psychology, as a way of determining and shaping people's thinking via the strong factors of compliance aligned to society's corrupt tenets.
Then if you cannot understand this, then I will repeat it. Hey child where's your attention, still chasing that nymph in the woods, it is YOU DEAR SIR that needs that much needed lobotomy which i spoke of, the quicker the better for mankind.
Richard
Amigo, will answer you soon
away on urgent business call
raymond /anonymous 23 | 07.31.08 - 3:44
Cat & xzp and others...
Catch you on another topic...I am not going to give this asshole the delight in reading his comment nor reply to a one sided recorded machine...a real disturbed case, straight out from the nut crackers suite; i.e Bush et al...pretending to be on the same page as us, with his crack pot bullshit accusations.
All of us agree that those who align themselves against zionism are nearly 90% right on target, but then we have a trojan horse who slips in like the deceptive fox on line, with the mantra, that they are against the Bush regime, infiltrate as expected and then strick the hammer of discontent, this has to be expected. We had the bullies straight out of Hell, and now the subtle subterfuge...like man heh ! with his statements, you are deranged or something, thereby discrediting us, like those ducks on a shooting gallery, one by one, of course we can expect another these attacks, and the road ahead are going to be full of these asshole, trust me, i have a gut feeling about these dickhead.....Like heh !! they expect us to lie down like pussies, and allowed to go free for their crimes and/or the support of these criminals, or maybe they are the real criminals.
He like angel gave themselves away, ironically with their freudian slips a plenty. However, its best not to pay attention to these oedipus complex followers of Freud believers...No wonder they are deranged and call others what they really are.
Atheo has the right attitude, ignore these bastards and not reply to their accusations, it they who pretend to be like god telling us, what to do and what not to do, as if we are sheep that need to be herded....Another slip up, when they can't simply join the dots...Poor idiots, must be brain damaged from too much of sex and drugs
However, it i feel its no point talking to a wall who will not face other's point of view, and enforce and bully their way in, but obviously, carefully planned.
Any sensible person/s would have deduced by now, there would have been a rational debate, suspiciously there wasnt, just name smearing with the intent to destroy, which capped my conclusions that they have been trained to do this. Now that WE have the scalp of 2 SHILL who have closed any venue for an open debate...almost similar to the controlled RIGHT WING JEWISH MEDIA tactics, many more may be on the agenda, this to me signifies that the heat is ON, which the controlled media is not letting ON, hence the reaction from these dimwits in action.
I've got News for the zionist supporters, you aint got a chance in hell, wait till the revolution comes around, and it aint that far away, love to see justice being served (sooner or later it is waiting for you to be served) for all those Millions upon millions, including women children, old people die and innocents who died. Now if that is deranged, then so be it. Lovely, how he swings words to sway people from truth and justice...of which I will admit that I have stated...Well what do you expect, murder people and get away with it, no way hose !!
That is the key word that gave HIM away, besides his total ignorance for what I really stand for( 40 years indeed, what bullshit...and he couldnt pick who is the right and wrong enemy...Man that shows his cognitive skills and intel...result=a definite trojan shill)...like I said I will expose these bastards even through their red riding hood disguises. They will swing for HUMANITY either in this world or the next...doomed psychos...Take it from me I know...
See you guys and dolls on another comment, may post some more links to keep the focus on how humanity arrives to this point. Got to keep the pressure ON, or else they will escape the NET.
Like my friend at work says, 'Rich, dont try putting brains into dummies'.Well someone has to do the donkey work of spreading the word if we want justice, even if it looks like we appear like conspiracy theorists, where the truth is WE ARENT...
Raymond
Catch you on another thread, i did try to post a comment, for some reason it wasnt posted. Must be the infiltrators as suspected this would happen who must now the game is up, hence the last ditch stand that they hope will save their necks for supporting the criminal elites...See you guys and dolls on the next hot debate, then we can slip in the discussion, which I feel is relevant to the POLITICS of today, after all its the affairs of mankind and not aliens we are discussing, you know what I mean....
Primmy:
Before you start your boring stories on YOUR life, please realize that you and King-pin are responsible for shifting the discussion here. I'm sorry to have seen your real colors. I thought you were better but I was wrong.
P.S. In your narrow thinking everything is separate: Econ, Poli-sci, Religion, Spirituality, Energy.
Others, thinking from BOTH brains (sides) in their heads, see how all are linked.
P.S. What a weirdo you have become g randy prim. Its saddens me to see what your true colors are: a name-calling little boy.
Richard
Just Finishing touches on my reply ,I was debating whether to post or not
I will post a section only
Ok brother
Reply
I think we wasted enough time answering those psychologically deformed , mentally warped , natural freaks , we would give them sympathy and understanding if they just keep their socializing to their kind , the problem we got brother ,is that they keep transgressing to adults domains , mimicking level headed men , with infant maturity , I question the credibility of their Guardians .. let us not condescend to their level .. (they certainly trying our patient ) let us keep our heads above their murky water ( re read Rudyard Kipling poem = IF = ) http://tinyurl.com/cjgh2
Better still brother please check this : http://tinyurl.com/yhopgl
Note Article by Henk Ruyssenaars ,Titled (Internet genocide: Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers ) http://tinyurl.com/6gyw6v
I Won’t be surprised , if our disturbers are members of the so called Israel army of cyber-soldiers ..!
Now for the reply :
To other posters if they are still around I repeat what Richard stated
(By the way if anyone think that this is off topic to what is being directed to Raymond below, it isnt, its relevant to why this whole crazy mess we are living in today's world. Therefore, if you dont like it, please skip it, muchos gratios. ) We are aware that the topic of these comments is (Are You Ready to Face the Facts About Israel? By Paul Craig Roberts ) He started in a quote ("On October 21 (194 the Government of Israel took a decision that was to have a lasting and divisive effect on the rights and status of those Arabs who lived within its borders: the official establishment of military government in the areas where most of the inhabitants were Arabs." - Martin Gilbert, Israel: A History ) The quote is ok , but the word he used (194 the Government of Israel ) is incorrect ,there was only roaming murderous thieving gangs then , the mafia head of those gangs announce a government ,on the local inhabitants ,not even corruptly voted in ,the ramifications was catastrophic to the local region then , and 50 years later the ramifications are catastrophic to all countries in that region , the majority of posters ,( me included ) on ICH , see the disastrous creation of Israel .out of thin air ,on occupied Arab country , buy sinister entities , namely the Jewish controlled finance , promoting the Jewish = zionist = ideology , the Jewish congregation as a whole = Fooled = into adopting the propaganda only the wise Orthodox Jews saw it’s true destructive nature on their believes and on them as a whole ,realising no good going to come out of it , situation no gain, minacious consequences , to all concerned , serving only delusion of few shady characters of Grandeur
That briefly sums up our take on the article
Reply to Richard = canceled =
Richard
Just Finishing touches on my reply ,I was debating whether to post or not
I will post a section only
Ok brother
Reply
I think we wasted enough time answering those psychologically deformed , mentally warped , natural freaks , we would give them sympathy and understanding if they just keep their socializing to their kind , the problem we got brother ,is that they keep transgressing to adults domains , mimicking level headed men , with infant maturity , I question the credibility of their Guardians .. let us not condescend to their level .. (they certainly trying our patient ) let us keep our heads above their murky water ( re read Rudyard Kipling poem = IF = ) http://tinyurl.com/cjgh2
Better still brother please check this : http://tinyurl.com/yhopgl
Note Article by Henk Ruyssenaars ,Titled (Internet genocide: Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers ) http://tinyurl.com/6gyw6v
I Won’t be surprised , if our disturbers are members of the so called Israel army of cyber-soldiers ..!
Now for the reply :
To other posters if they are still around I repeat what Richard stated
(By the way if anyone think that this is off topic to what is being directed to Raymond below, it isnt, its relevant to why this whole crazy mess we are living in today's world. Therefore, if you dont like it, please skip it, muchos gratios. ) We are aware that the topic of these comments is (Are You Ready to Face the Facts About Israel? By Paul Craig Roberts ) He started in a quote ("On October 21 (194 the Government of Israel took a decision that was to have a lasting and divisive effect on the rights and status of those Arabs who lived within its borders: the official establishment of military government in the areas where most of the inhabitants were Arabs." - Martin Gilbert, Israel: A History ) The quote is ok , but the word he used (194 the Government of Israel ) is incorrect ,there was only roaming murderous thieving gangs then , the mafia head of those gangs announce a government ,on the local inhabitants ,not even corruptly voted in ,the ramifications was catastrophic to the local region then , and 50 years later the ramifications are catastrophic to all countries in that region , the majority of posters ,( me included ) on ICH , see the disastrous creation of Israel .out of thin air ,on occupied Arab country , buy sinister entities , namely the Jewish controlled finance , promoting the Jewish = zionist = ideology , the Jewish congregation as a whole = Fooled = into adopting the propaganda only the wise Orthodox Jews saw it’s true destructive nature on their believes and on them as a whole ,realising no good going to come out of it , situation no gain, minacious consequences , to all concerned , serving only delusion of few shady characters of Grandeur
That briefly sums up our take on the article
Below is to Richard , not private nor confidential , I know ,nevertheless to Richard
Sorry to have sidestepped , it was intentional ,as not to get accused for being irrelevant to topic ( fulfilled that criteria ) LOL
Reply ( no longer planned or scheduled )...!?!
Sorry for dublication
Unintentional
At first it seem did not post
To Lawrence Boxall
You keep asserting that I am making “…unfounded accusations that you are defending Israeli actions.” That is not the case at all. What I am writing is that in the context of the existing United States political, economic, philosophical, ideological, and media milieu the expressions of anti-semitism in this forum are leaves in a whirlwind, farts in a windstorm.
Your written opposition to them---the beating of a dead horse-- however, are thunderous proclamations, a drum roll that is ever present in our milieu --organizationally, politically and financially supported--- whenever and if ever the horrendous, murderous activities of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government are brought to the fore in the way that Paul Craig Roberts has brought them to the fore in the article that forms the basis of this dialogue
In such an environment the obscene gesture of painting a swastika on a Jewish headstone becomes the equivalent of a United States supplied helicopter gunship manned by a Jewish Israeli pilot assassinating some Palestinian leaders that wipes them out while wounding or killing some twenty five other people and demolishing the buildings around them.
So to make my point clear—you can continue with your morality play if you want to but know that it serves the purpose of distorting the reality in precisely the way that Roberts describes the distortion of the reality for the Reverend Are
I do like your South African tale and I think it makes the point in exactly the way that I view the matter of the so-called one state solution. I suppose that you are under the impression that the “bicycle” has been restored to the rightful owner by the end of the appearances of apartheid.
The facts are completely at odds with your perceptions. In the first instance, all of the natural resources of South Africa have remained the private property of the gold, diamond and finance conglomerates that owned them during apartheid. The only private property that has had some semblance of being returned to the indigenous Africans has been the huge farms of the Afrikaners and then only to a modest extent so that the assassinations of the Afrikaner owners of these mega farms has continued in spite of the governments efforts to prevent it.
The courts, the government, the armed forces, the police, the entire organization of the society and the ownership of the natural resources and the essential productive capacity in Israel is owned by Jewish Israelis. They have created these conditions in opposition to the United Nations resolution that created the two states and in opposition to some two hundred and fifty resolutions of the United Nations vetoed or opposed and thereby defeated by the United States in its symbiotic relationship with Israel---the United States drive for hegemony over the oil and gas reserves of the Middle East and the Caspian Sea for its international oil, gas, and finance conglomerates and the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported strategic objective to absorb the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria to fulfill the wet dream of the Eretz Israel described in the short stories that have become known as the bible.
So I support the two state solution in precisely the manner stated in the United Nations Resolution 181 in 1947-48 which resolution specifically prohibits, along with the Geneva Conventions, the ethnic cleansing and killing actions taken by the Jewish Zionists since then.
The International Court of Justice at the Hague went through all of this in its July 9, 2004 decision that ruled against the ghetto wall built by the Jewish Zionist Israeli government. But the best presentation of the facts is that presented by Norman Finkelstein at his website http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/.
To Lawrence Boxall
You keep asserting that I am making “…unfounded accusations that you are defending Israeli actions.” That is not the case at all. What I am writing is that in the context of the existing United States political, economic, philosophical, ideological, and media milieu the expressions of anti-semitism in this forum are leaves in a whirlwind, farts in a windstorm.
Your written opposition to them---the beating of a dead horse-- however, are thunderous proclamations, a drum roll that is ever present in our milieu --organizationally, politically and financially supported--- whenever and if ever the horrendous, murderous activities of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government are brought to the fore in the way that Paul Craig Roberts has brought them to the fore in the article that forms the basis of this dialogue
In such an environment the obscene gesture of painting a swastika on a Jewish headstone becomes the equivalent of a United States supplied helicopter gunship manned by a Jewish Israeli pilot assassinating some Palestinian leaders that wipes them out while wounding or killing some twenty five other people and demolishing the buildings around them.
So to make my point clear—you can continue with your morality play if you want to but know that it serves the purpose of distorting the reality in precisely the way that Roberts describes the distortion of the reality for the Reverend Are
I do like your South African tale and I think it makes the point in exactly the way that I view the matter of the so-called one state solution. I suppose that you are under the impression that the “bicycle” has been restored to the rightful owner by the end of the appearances of apartheid.
The facts are completely at odds with your perceptions. In the first instance, all of the natural resources of South Africa have remained the private property of the gold, diamond and finance conglomerates that owned them during apartheid. The only private property that has had some semblance of being returned to the indigenous Africans has been the huge farms of the Afrikaners and then only to a modest extent so that the assassinations of the Afrikaner owners of these mega farms has continued in spite of the governments efforts to prevent it.
The courts, the government, the armed forces, the police, the entire organization of the society and the ownership of the natural resources and the essential productive capacity in Israel is owned by Jewish Israelis. They have created these conditions in opposition to the United Nations resolution that created the two states and in opposition to some two hundred and fifty resolutions of the United Nations vetoed or opposed and thereby defeated by the United States in its symbiotic relationship with Israel---the United States drive for hegemony over the oil and gas reserves of the Middle East and the Caspian Sea for its international oil, gas, and finance conglomerates and the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported strategic objective to absorb the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria to fulfill the wet dream of the Eretz Israel described in the short stories that have become known as the bible.
So I support the two state solution in precisely the manner stated in the United Nations Resolution 181 in 1947-48 which resolution specifically prohibits, along with the Geneva Conventions, the ethnic cleansing and killing actions taken by the Jewish Zionists since then.
The International Court of Justice at the Hague went through all of this in its July 9, 2004 decision that ruled against the ghetto wall built by the Jewish Zionist Israeli government. But the best presentation of the facts is that presented by Norman Finkelstein at his website http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/.
William C Carlotti
Man I formed a folder on my computer holding all articles posts you wrote for references ,as I could not disagree with any point you presented or understanding you elustrated or term you used
Good on you brother William ..
the other folder named Henk Ruyssenaars
The third BOR ( Best of the rest )
Hey Randy, I'm out of Peanut's to throw at the monkey's! Let's go have a beer! I think we're done here.
Nothing is going in and sticking anymore. I must say though it's been an enjoyable show!
I've noticed a few "first's" with these last 30 or so psychotic-eruptions. I now know, through reading Richard's comments, that someone can actually put "GENUINE-CRAZY" to paper.
Another thing I noticed is that Kitty is now using Richard's prescriptions, but the illusions are taking their toll - she's drooling on her keyboard, and scratching aimlessly at anything that moves! The paranoia patrol is on the way, and they should have her back here at HQ-Langley, by noon tomorrow!
One thing for sure though they both have creative and vibrant imaginations about us, eh?
I love it when you can write a few lines and be guaranteed to get them spinning like out of control tops on "P".
I'll go check out with my section boss and meet you at Hooter's!
Oh, and Suzi with the "dead fish medal", I'm terribly sorry, but I am not familiar with either of the people you wanted "straight" answers on. I'm just a fallible guy with wings who doesn't care for you hate-niks and American Christian Moralists. And Richard, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on the 911 conspiracy because I wasn't there. I watched it all on CNN, after setting the autopilot's with my remote WMD-unit from my cave in Tora Bora.
Night night now. I'll leave a night light on in the hall so the Bat's don't bite!!
Angelo--I have one ace up my sleeve...Go to Youtube. Put on India Arie's Brown Skin, or Janet Jackson's That's The Way Love Goes...and while listening to it make love to your wife..maybe that could melt your heart..
Richard requested that I supply some quotes where he might have been abusive and annoying - which is not only illegal per U.S. Code Title 47/5/II section 223. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscod...ode/47/
223.html - but in contravention of Tom Feeley's ICH Comment Policy: http://www.informationclearingho...use.info/
c1.htm, so I dug into the WayBack Machine and lo! and behold! He begins ever so gently,
Lighten up everybody, no need for personal attacks. We are after all in the same boat, jews and non jews alike. What WE all love to see is the world united. what is the saying UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL....We all have different points of views, that doesnt mean we should dominate one against the other ( a definite sign of the bully ) We have to focus and decipher the truth from the false, which will always be the case...Yes you are right, self knowledge has to be the starting point for examining one's emotions...However, it really takes a lot to get me mad... http://www.haloscan.com/comments...? src=hsn#302153
and then goes completely batshit crazy:
...OFF WITH YOUR HEADS fucking psychopaths, and that goes for that donkey dick, G Randy Pimms, for legalising murder and genocide of your own citizens in cold blood. NO conscience to date....Go hide in the sewers and play with your scum of society...Look forward to seeing you on REVOLUTION DAY... It is quite obvious you havent read my links to prove you WRONG ASSHOLE for the umpteenth time.......RETARD with no ammo left other than your fucked up pickle like brain...Once the world gets rid off you humanely, the better...You ought to be put in a zoo to remind others the shape, the size, of inbreeding of zionist apes with the CHOSEN ONE MENTALITY...I DEFY YOU TO READ THE LINKS WHICH I HAVE RESEARCHED...WHAT ? OTHER THAN YOUR CHANTS AND RAVES AND FROM YOUR WRONGFUL ASSERTIONS YOU HAVE NO PROVE TO YOUR CREDIBILITY...THEREFORE A CUNNING WELL EDUCATED FROM THE ZIONIST CAMP SHILL....
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/ article20260_htm/?src=hsn#297323
Almost poetry, don't you think? Especially that last line, "therefore a cunning well educated..."
Reminds me of the old saying, "All your base are belong to us," except that Richard's sentence supplies no verb, alas.
Well, those were the good times, eh Gabriel? They will be sorely missed (not). Have a beer on me, and make it a Guiness, OK?
Fnord.
1948; Jewish community owned 5.8% of Palestine
David Ben Gurion: " The Arabs will have to go"
"We will demand a large chunk of Palestine"
"Every attack has to end with occupation,destruction,and expulsion"
Repeating Allon's words: "We need to harm them without mercy,women and children included. Otherwise,this is not an effective reaction. (terrorism of the palestinian villagers) During the operation there is no need to distinguish between guilty and not guilty."
Article9: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest,dention, or EXILE.
Article 13/2: Everyone has the right to leave any country,including his won,and RETURN TO HIS COUNTRY.
Article17/2: No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his PROPERTY
UN resolution217A(Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
Resolution 194:The unconditional right of the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes
In 1948, 85% of the Palestiinians living in the ares that became the state of Israel became refugees.
It is estimated that there were more than 7 million Palestinians are displaced and refugees ar the beginning of 2003
Since the beginnning of the first intifada (10-2000)over 2,500 children have been arrested. Currently 340 children are in Isreali jails
The Peoples Voice,12-15-2005
Since 167,670,000 Palestinians have been detained by those wonderful Israeli's
"So if we want to remain, alive, we have to kill and kill and kill. All day,everyday...If we dont kill, we will cease to exist..."
Arnon Soffer Professor at Hiafa University (The Jersusalem Post-5-1
0-2004
"Shooting in the air,really means in the lungs." Dave Zonstein(Co-founder of 'Courage to Refuse'. An organization of Israeli soldiers who refuse to be sent to the occupied lands to commit crimes and assist the illegal settlers.
"Thanks for the happy news" The response of the CEO of the jewish defense league when i wrote her to to tell her that a few months ago a mother of three of her children where killed eating breakfast in their home, in Gaza by an Israeli tank shell.- i cried like a baby. The CEO happened to be a woman..
sorry for the typo's folks,but i just worked 12 hours,i'm tired and that's usually when i make error's. namaste
The Hebrew Squeeze
a great crime was done to a people
most the world turned their backs
most of the world ignored it
most of the world denied
now they do what was done to them
and they call it justitied
today they use the same evil
to do evil on those who own what they want
like a hebrew anaconda
each town and village is walled and squeezed
checkpoints and soldiers
locking them in
to starve,
to choke,
to gasp their last breath
until they give up and give in
this crime committed by a narcistic lot
this cleansing dirtied to high heaven
to break the silence of the lie
to shed some light for the world to see
for if i could i blow my horn
to break every wall
around every town
to free those who have done no wrong
cept to have what others want
who live on land
that others covet
O Gabriel
you've done it before
at the walls of Jericho
Now your task is a hundred fold
to do a right
to fix a wrong
come blow your horn
i have paid 46$ to have spray painted on the apartheid wall almost surrounding Ramallah:"What is here is not ours-
what we are is what good we do for others-
what we give makes us who we should be"
and then i spend another 46 bucks to have spray painted on the same wall around the same city; " The holy land is for one and all under the eyes and love of the Maker of us"
why not allow true democracy to exist there? Allow all the people who live in Palestine to vote on the nation they want. Majority rules,freedom would ring and allow one gun to be within the borders of this nation.
Jerusalem? if i forget thee,cut off my right arm
Jerusalem should be the capital of the world...........
Lamentation for the Children of Israel
Your hearts, O Israel, have become like crisp burnt cinders
bereft of compassion, drained of joy,
offering only the sulphurous fumes of arrogance
to the orphans and the widows
whose protruding round eyes
stare out from starving faces
at your abundant good fortune.
Your souls, O Israel, have chilled the blood in my veins
hardened in immunity to the suffering of the stranger.
You have forgotten that
"you were once a stranger in the land of Egypt"
was meant to remind you to take pity on the stranger.
Instead, you have become Pharaoh,
to escape the pain of the stranger,
your young, full-bellied army tortures the stranger
even as you delight in your humiliation of the stranger
and witness your cruelty with a banal calm eye.
My tears, O Israel, flow hot and flow cold
as the ice and the fire dance through my maddened mind
watching the soldiers of Pharaoh emblazoned with Magen Dovid
hardened like steel against the vulnerable soft flesh of their victims
oblivious to the sound of the waters of the Red Sea.
I choke on the fear of what you have wrought
to open the flood of this sea
that will consume both you and me.
Hear, O Israel, we are all one.
copyright©2007 by Lawrence Boxall
To William C Carlotti
Part 1
You are absolutely right. My mistake. Your first para above clarifies what my misperceptions of your earlier statements are. But all is not lost. As our differences come into sharper focus, our discussion should become more useful—useful to me, at any rate.
I find your comparison of a single-state solution with the current South African situation very interesting. I have been annoying my socialist comrades for quite some time with the argument that the end of apartheid has left the black working class high and dry. One of the many tragedies that have befallen South Africa is that, as Apartheid left stage right, neoliberal globalization arrived stage left and the Freedom Charter that everyone had struggled to implement since 1955 was virtually abandoned except for continuing to exist on the ANC website.
My realization was that the mistake made in the struggle against apartheid was to allow too many people to come to believe that apartheid was exclusively a race issue when in reality it was a deviation from classical capitalism designed to solve a problem that capitalists were encountering in a specific situation—very much like fascism and nazism served to address a problem that capitalists were encountering at that time. This is not to suggest that the overthrow of apartheid was not progressive even if the people have been pauperized to an even greater extent than they were under apartheid. It simply means that the struggle does not end with the overthrow of apartheid.
See this article which provides more detail on my views on the above and on how South Africa relates to Israel from a 2005 interview.
This article, also from 2005 explains my perspective on South Africa as well if you read the section beginning at paragraph 7 headed "The South African Lesson." I am providing these links to save myself the time of rewriting what I've already written in the past.
I had the pleasure of meeting Norman Finkelstein when he visited Vancouver in 2004 to give a talk entitled "Is Criticism of Israel Anti-Semitic." Here is the introduction to a report on his talk that I wrote for Jewish Outlook:
‘From the outset, I must warn the reader that I am very partial towards Norman Finkelstein. His talk at a public forum in Vancouver on May 15, though richly academic, had strong elements of stand-up comedy which helped maintain a sharp concentration throughout his two-hour presentation. Evidence of a strong moral sense, a distinct menshlikheit, warmed me to him even further. In short, I like the guy and I believe him.
‘Scheduled to present a talk "Is Criticism of Israel Anti-Semitic" he began by changing the title to "Real and Fabricated Disagreements over the Israel/Palestine Conflict." Over the next two hours he showed that the issue of anti-Semitism and particularly the "New Anti-Semitism" was one tactic in a three-pronged propaganda campaign which he referred to collectively as the "fabricated disagreements over the Israel Palestine conflict." ’
To William C Carlotti
Part 2
I also made the acquaintance of Noam Chomsky when two organizations I belong to hosted separate talks by him in 2004.
Both of these men are champions of the two-state solution and I have great admiration for both of them. They both argue that it is the solution supported by the international community and the most likely to succeed. They both argue that it is cruel to create false hopes for the Palestinians by promoting a solution that will not happen. Either of these intellectual giants have enough knowledge to swamp the pitiful amount that I have accumulated in my lifetime, but on this one point I humbly disagree with them. It may be that we have to go through a two-state solution before we get to a just society in the lands formerly known as Palestine and it will probably not happen until long after I am dead. I believe that a two-state solution has recently become acceptable in Zionist discourse precisely because it is impossible to achieve given the current reality “on the ground” or perhaps because it is now seen by the Zionists as a possible solution to the “demographic threat.”
Joel Kovel's Overcoming Zionism and Ali Abunimah's One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict are both fascinating recent books in support of a single state. Abunimah, a Palestinian living in the US, has written a book that is both warmly human and acutely insightful. It is an absolute must in my opinion and contains one the best synopses of South African history pertaining to the Zionist enterprise and the Palestinian response that I have ever seen. Kovel, an American Jew, writes the most damning criticism of Zionist ideology I have ever seen and shows how evil is an inevitable outcome of the whole idea. While Abunimah's work is a pleasure to read, Kovel's is so densely intellectual that one has to work hard to unearth what he is saying, but any work you put into struggling with Kovel's mind is deeply rewarding.
An interesting article from The Hindu on the one state solution
Finally, I must say that while I agree with what you are saying about how the label of "anti-Semitism" is used to neutralize criticism of Zionist depredations and how the "holocaust industry," as Finkelstein terms it, is a tool the Zionists have successfully used to get away with murder, I still think that anti-Semitic remarks, like suicide bombers, are a propaganda gift to the Zionists. Anti-Semitism in the West is so low key that it presents virtually no threat to Jews, but it is a question of perceptions. If you want to convince the majority of Westerners, Jew and non-Jew alike, to stop their governments from giving support to Israel at the expense of the Palestinians, you have to be, and also appear to be, free of xenophobic attitudes towards Jews. I can fully appreciate the logic of a Palestinian living under the Israeli jackboot feeling hatred for Jews, but the Judeophobic remarks on this commentary page that come from Westerners are a selfish, self-indulgent, despicable, pathological attempt to create meaning where there is none. They serve to reinforce the Jewish fears that the Zionist prey upon and frighten away potential allies to the Palestinian struggle for justice. This is not an argument with what you are saying but an additional point.
I also want to assure you that it has been very fruitful so far for me to engage with you and I thank you for the time you have devoted to responding to me.
Boxall/Carlotti, what a thrill to witness your banter, guys. I consider you both the widest and deepest intellects we have the good fortune to have here in the ICH crowd, I am humbled by your work amd see promise in tour vast experience and good will. Thanks for being here! Jerry
Conversations on the internet
On a discussion group somewhere on the World Wide Web someone posted this in response to someone's wish for peace in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine:
' "war is hell." I dont think people will ever stop fighting. I have compassion for human kind, but you cant just lay down your arms and hope for world peace.'
This is a constant refrain whenever war and human aggression is under consideration. It pains me when I hear this and other variations on the theme of War is part of Human Nature because it obliterates the possibility of Hope. What then could be the basis for any hope?
My response to those who argue that war is inevitable
No, you have to stop being complicit in promoting aggression and put your energy into building peace. You do, in fact, have to put down your arms if you are compassionate.
I don't expect it will be easy and it may not be successful. But there is no security in continuing to fight. The only hope, faint as it may be, is in living in peace with the rest of humanity and respecting the rest of humanity.
I am a Jew, but I am not proud of being a Jew.
I am a Canadian, but I am not proud of being a Canadian.
I am a Caucasoid but not proud of being a white person.
I was born on the continent of Africa, but not proud of being a native of Africa.
I am a male but not proud of being male.
I am a human being, but not proud of being a human being.
I am a mammalian earthling but not proud of being a mammalian earthling.
I am deeply in awe at the life and consciousness that is embodied in my being. I am humbled by the intricate web of life that connects me to the other six billion creatures on this planet who, like me have self-consciousness and who share with me the miraculous ability to put themselves into the shoes of others by imagining the self-consciousness of others. I am humbled by the delicate web of life that connects me to all of life on this planet and the utter vulnerability of my participation in this dance of interdependent life. I am deeply aware of how easily I sin against the miracle of life without even being aware of it; how through the sins of omission and the sins of commission I compromise the integrity of every relationship life allows me to be part of.
Thus, as I stand in my individual nakedness before the immensity of the entire universe, at once in both silent aloneness and in the roaring cacophony of a myriad connections, I know that win or lose it is only Universal Love that matters at the end of the day. Compassion is the insightfulness that enables me to see through the fog of my enemy's hatred and beyond my own reptilian selfishness to the essence we all share.
Thus courage is the will to risk the ridicule of the fearful in order to push for our only collective hope: a world of universal human respect for all of life.
Jewish morality requires of me that I have courage to do what is right.
What is right is to take from my Jewish roots what is necessary to open my heart to the universal; to grow from my Jewish roots the total understanding that my primary allegiance must be to the family of humanity and that only when I have done my duty to life and to humanity can I turn to my group and myself. But it is not only Jewish morality that requires this, for my Jewish morality teaches me that eventually it is universal human morality that I share with all of humankind that must be my guide.
If it is good for all of humanity, it must be good for me, my wife, my children, my mother, my father, my brother, my sister. My love for my children is but the particularization of my love for all children in the family of humanity. Through my love for my brother, I show the truth of my allegiance to all of humankind. In loving my wife, I explode with the expression of all the passion I feel for everything.
That is why I think we have to all struggle to stop the fighting. It is a moral obligation which our humanity requires of us. Ignoring this duty and surrendering to the pettiness of "my group right or wrong" renders our humanity wasted on ourselves.
Replies to the above included
Person 1. " I think that it is quite sad that you believe that . . ." (and then the person listed all the lines about not being proud of being everything in the list above)
Person 2. " . . . I have trouble falling for such severe lack of pride. Would someone with no healthy pride in self pour out his feelings in a public format?"
My response to Person's 1. and 2.
"The point is, unashamedly, that it is only pride in self, pride and gratitude for the ability to love, that is acceptable to me and I thrill in you taking pride in yourself whenever I observe it for it validates my experience of me and I feel our souls dancing together in our mutual vibrations. There is nothing self-deprecating in my rejection of mob pride."
On the emotional level, it is always the mob mentality that frightens me the most even when I sense it during a rally with a group of like-minded people. When I feel my own emotions being swept up in the intoxication of being with a group that swells with common self-righteousness, I feel dirty and degraded and ashamed of myself as soon as I become aware of what is happening.
The bottom line for me is that unless we acknowledge the Hitler in our own hearts and keep a beady eye on it, it will take control of us. Morally behaviour is not automatic, we have to work at it especially in a world were we are surrounded by injustices. We must struggle to overcome Zionism, but not with vengeful hearts.
sorry about all that bold cock-up. I wish this haloscan system allowed one to edit mistakes in postings.
To Jerry Gates:
You are too kind, but thank you. It feels good to sense someone with a kind heart.
without borders
i am attached atomically to the
universe
i am bonded biologically to all life
i am connected chemically to the earth
i am awed
i am astounded
i ame humbled
the equality that i perceive
means that i look neither up nor down
i adhere to the golden rule and path
which to me is not paved with silver nor gold
but with humilty,love and tolerance
i exist without borders
for my compassion cannot be contained by state or national borders
my empathy and concern shall not be for those who live in my neighborhood
my love is not halted at the frontier manned by armed security
within these counterfiet walls on lands stolen from folks whov'e lived here far longer than you or i
my loyalties are not caged by flag nor vow to some nation or society anywhere,anytime
my sense of justice and mercy does not end at the river or the ocean
nor can it be contained by earth, wind or sky
the family of nations is inclusive,none are exclusive
this is what i believe
this is what i teach
this is what i live
with my heart,soul and mind
this planet is my nation
humanity my kinfolk
self-sacrifice in humility is my faith
custodian for the earth and all who reside here is my vocation
i am without borders
free
without borders
Michael Hall,
I agree with your basic premises, and appreciate your holistic view of the ideal in humanity. I sincerely wish we could all live in peace and harmony, it sickens me the course mankind is currently following.
Oh, but for a lifetime of peace and harmony rather than greed driven envy, and lust for power and control for all that IS.
Thanks Angel;
We are a very young species, we are mere 1/2 crazed children and if we don't kill ourselves off then we will grow into mature,altruistic beings who eschew selfishenss and will simply grow up. Everyone one of us know right from wrong,even if we dont choose it,we know it and some day we will. We have come very far indeed from the cave and fire,worshipping thunder and lightenning.
So far yet, have we to go but have faith,do not fear for what we are now is not we will be. What we can be and i think will be is wonderful and worth the struggle. i cannot fathom the price of ill and injustice,i am no higher than you. The maker has chosen to put us here, to learn, to grow,to teach and then move on when we have become learned. This is a cave,but the light beyond and within each of us is the truth,redemption and emancipation of us all. Go in peace,teach in gentle wisdom,be a light for all. namste
I agree Michael.
"So far yet, have we to go but have faith,do not fear for what we are now is not we will be. What we can be and i think will be is wonderful and worth the struggle."
I wonder how many generations of mankind will pass into the forever before we come to those realizations though??"
At the moment we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and unfortunately all this is occuring in OUR lifetimes, a mere Butterfly blink in time! How must the struggle proceed in order to get to the end goal of our species POSITIVE evolution? I don't think either of us can say with any certainty what lies ahead, but as long as enough of us live it in peace it will seem a worthwhile quest. (I hope, without holding my breath considering our pitiful "present"! )
To Lawrence Boxall of 07.30.08 (part 1)
Based on the final paragraph of your part 2, we remain exactly where we were at the start of this dialogue.
Anti-semitism does not exist systemically in United States society---not politically, not economically, not philosophically, not academically. Its anachronistic expressions in these pages are akin to a regurgitation of the earth as the center of the universe that haunted Copernicus and nearly got Galileo at the stake; or the flat earth postulations as they were promoted by the Christian monk Cosmos Indicopleutes.
The worst of this doctrine is reflected in the opposition to Copernicus' independent discovery of the Egyptian's empirically established double motion of the earth, which had been stated as a doctrine by the Greek Aristarchus about 300 BC. When Copernicus stated the doctrine that the earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun, the biblical zealots pointed to Joshua 10:12,13—where the god of the bible invented by the Israelites halted the sun and the moon to give Joshua the time necessary to complete the genocidal slaughter of the Amorites. It was the wisdom of Copernicus in delaying the publication of his doctrine until just prior to his death that probably saved him from the fate of the Amorites.
When Galileo's astronomical observations (assumedly independent of any knowledge of Egyptian observations) empirically confirmed Copernicus' doctrine, the biblical zealots in the form of the Inquisition threatened him with torture until he recanted—earning him a sentence of two years in prison. For nearly two hundred years the Catholic Church's Index of Forbidden Books condemned all writings that affirmed the doctrine of the double motion of the earth. For generations the major branches of the Protestant church—Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican—denounced the Copernican doctrine as being contrary to scripture, which is probably why John Donne and William Shakespeare wisely joined in the denunciation.”
http://www.thevoicenews.com/news...-
Messenger.html
The expressions of anti-semitism in this dialogue are the anachronistic conundrums that are the equivalent to the flat earth thesis, the equivalent to the earth as the center of the universe thesis.
Anti-semitism was strangled, choked, slaughtered and its rotting corpse buried by the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960’s in the United States---the country club restrictions of Jews, the Jewish quotas at the elite colleges, the restrictions to Jewish employment in all the levels of banking and insurance and Wall Street, the housing restrictions against Jews, the restrictions against Jews in all the professions---law, medicine, engineering, the restrictions against Jews in all the branches of government, military, legislative, judicial and administrative---all gone.
As a consequence of the Civil Rights movement all of these anti-semitic restrictions have ceased to exist while the refutations and denunciations flourished against the ideological, philosophical, and academic expressions of anti-semitism.
Anti-semitism is dead and buried in the United States.
TO Lawrence Boxall 07.30.08 part 2
In the whole of this dialogue you have not once, not even peripherally given substantive support or recognition to the national liberation struggle and resistance by the people of Palestine---ignoring the expressions of that in the organization of Hamas, Hizbollah, and the Palestinian Authority, which last organization, has as the emblem of its resistance, worn on the uniform of the Authority, the map of the United Nations partition of Mandate Palestine.
Moreover, you adopt the perceptions and characterizations of the resistance that is typical of the Jewish Zionist censored news that comes out of Israel. The hand delivered bomb, by this perception, is somehow worse than the 2000 pound uranium encased bomb rained on the Palestinans, the helicopter gunships that destroy a complete city block in less than a minute, behemoth tanks that tear down decades old olive groves and houses on top of their residents, or the one million anti-personnel cluster bombs rained on the people of Lebanon with their 5000 steel fletchets the size of an eight penny nail that explode over an area of three foot ball fields that are machine delivered by a jet plane where the Jewish Israeli pilot sees his target as an object on a screen like a video game and is long gone when the bombs explode.
There are obviously no Jewish suicides in these exercises of shooting fish in a barrel.
And to give credence to your distortions, you cite a Jewish and a Palestinian author that justify the slaughter by invalidating the 60 year resistance of the people of Palestine to the destruction of their national homeland.
There is one area that we begin to see the semblance of agreement, .it is in your statement that, “…European Jews, imitating the other Europeans, began a colonizing venture in Palestine, much as Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands and Great Britain had been doing in the Americas during the preceding 400 years and in Africa at the very time that Zionism was getting started.” Of course, the Zionist Jews were not imitating Europeans, they were Europeans.
The colonial projects of these nations has not ceased for a moment but has been proceeding unabated to this very day in modified forms developed to deal with the altered circumstances of the resistance encountered.
As a matter of fact, I have characterized the Bush/Cheney neocon led United States invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and the support of the Jewish Zionist led Israeli occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders as a “Recreation of United States National Identity”.
If there ever was a confirmation that “action speaks louder than words”, Israel’s assault on Lebanon that destroyed its airports, destroyed its sea ports, destroyed its water treatment and electrical generating plants, caused the death, crippling, and suffering of thousands of Lebanese, destroyed hundreds of homes and farmlands, and left deadly unexploded cluster bombs to keep on with the killing, then Israel’s actions are the undeniable proof of the proverb.
We have the historical accounts of other settler regimes like South Africa, Rhodesia, Australia, Tasmania and, most importantly, we have the historical accounts of the settler regime that created the United States out of the genocide of its millions of native people and its enslavement and murder of a hundred million Africans to inform us of the consequences of Jabotinsky’s Zionist “Iron Wall” strategy for Israel
http://www.marxists.de/middleast...ll/
ironwall.htm
" Any native people – its all the same whether they are civilized or savage – views their country as their national home, of which they will always be the complete masters. They will not voluntarily allow, not only a new master, but even a new partner. And so it is for the Arabs.
Compromisers in our midst attempt to convince us that the Arabs are some kind of fools who can be tricked by a softened formulation of our goals, or a tribe of money grubbers who will abandon their birth right to Palestine for cultural and economic gains. I flatly reject this assessment of the Palestinian Arabs. Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will, but this exhausts all of the internal differences.
We can talk as much as we want about our good intentions; but they understand as well as we what is not good for them. They look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile. This childish fantasy of our “Arabo-philes” comes from some kind of contempt for the Arab people, of some kind of unfounded view of this race as a rabble ready to be bribed in order to sell out their homeland for a railroad network."
So, we can We can either succumb to the pap being fed us now in the words of the occupiers or face the reality of the ongoing slaughter of the native population of occupied Palestine.
To Lawrece Boxall
The event that served as a cleansing of United States history was the war waged by the United States against the rise of the nazi and fascist led governments in Germany, Italy and Spain. Since then the histories and vivid descriptions of the nazi, fascist regimes assault on the rest of Europe and its targeting of groups like the Jews has made it possible to produce a narrative that virtually ignores the internal racist history of the United States.
The monumental historical details of the nazis and the fascists and the struggle against those regimes has smothered the fact that for four hundred years the United States murdered, slaughtered, raped, pillaged, destroyed, created laws, produced armies and militias to enforce the laws, created concentration camps that they called plantations and reservations, built special vessels for the transportation of their victims, created a whole industry of devices to imprison, torture, and force compliance with a racial slavery that produced the concept of race---a concept that was legally imposed for another hundred years in the law and courts after the legality of slavery was defeated----all of which resulted in the deaths of some one hundred and fifty million Africans and indigenous peoples and created the special technique of lynching (in a manner similar to another slave society that produced the special technique of crucifixion) when the legality of slavery was transposed to the legality of race.
Those that continue the search for the details and even the minutiae of the details of the horror created by those foreign regimes need only to search United States internal history to find that their origins are not somewhere else, but are as home grown as the racist laws required for slavery, segregation, lynching and Indian removal---just modified slightly to fit the different populations.
So, its not the Hitler that Boxall has to look for in himself, rather it is the Jabotinski, or the Sharon, or the Ben Gurion, or the Golda Mier or the Joe Lieberman that Boxall has to look for.
On the other hand, there is not even a minute trace in me of Boxall's icon of evil..
To William Carlotti:
I am baffled by your reply; You say:
"Moreover, you adopt the perceptions and characterizations of the resistance that is typical of the Jewish Zionist censored news that comes out of Israel. The hand delivered bomb, by this perception, is somehow worse than the 2000 pound uranium encased bomb rained on the Palestinans, the helicopter gunships that destroy a complete city block in less than a minute, behemoth tanks that tear down decades old olive groves and houses on top of their residents, or the one million anti-personnel cluster bombs rained on the people of Lebanon with their 5000 steel fletchets the size of an eight penny nail that explode over an area of three foot ball fields that are machine delivered by a jet plane where the Jewish Israeli pilot sees his target as an object on a screen like a video game and is long gone when the bombs explode."
I don't consider the hand-delivered bomb worse than the list you supply. I merely said that the suicide bomb is a gift to Zionist propagandists. When Nelson Mandela blew up pylons he ensured that he did not kill civilians. When the ANC blew up an Afrikaner elementary school down the road from where I lived, they did it at 3:00am when they were sure that no human being would get hurt. Similarly they exploded bombs in government buildings in the early hours of the morning when no one was about. The ANC held up a vision of justice for all South Africans and won the support of people from around the globe.
The Zionists, on the other hand are able to flood the news with stories of weddings and school buses that successfully demonize the Palestinian people and make Western non-Jews nervous about supporting the Palestinians because of the
guilt created by the holocaust industry.
The problem of the Palestinian struggle as I see it is as follows:
International support for the struggle in South Africa was of secondary importance to the internal struggle. Even the efforts of the armed wing of the ANC, Umkhonto we Sizwe, was marginal compared to the internal efforts to make the country ungovernable. The power of the wildcat strike and the power of the consumer boycott had far more effect on ending apartheid. When the movie Saturday Night Fever appeared in South Africa, the publicists organized a disco-dancing competition that was open to whites only. Nothing unusual in that at the time. A spontaneous boycott against the movie erupted amongst the Black population and, if I remember correctly, it took about three days before the competition was open to everyone. Suddenly Black South Africa became aware of the power that their increasing buying power gave them and they began to use it with devastating effect on the complacency of exploitative whites. The boycott from within had far greater effect than the armed struggle or international boycotts.
As the South African economy grew under apartheid, job barriers began to break down as there were no longer enough whites to fill the more skilled jobs that had been reserved to them. This meant that job action by Blacks became increasingly effective as apartheid began to unravel under the strain of its own internal economic contradictions.
What is the situation in Palestine. Israel has no need of Palestinians labour when they can get labour from anywhere they want. The Palestinians that sneak through the Apartheid Wall to work as illegals in Israel are exploited just as Mexican illegals are brutally exploited in the US and they have no economic clout whatsoever. Palestinians cannot wound the Israeli economy with consumer boycotts or strikes. While one cannot help admiring the Palestinian spirit of resistance in spite of the overwhelming odds against them and their refusal to be cowed no matter how deeply they are humiliated, the odds of an armed resistance succeeding is extremely remote. The Palestinians have been abandoned by surrounding Arab governments and Palestinian refugees in these surrounding countries have not been well-treated. For all the hundreds of resolutions that have been passed by the UN very little of any consequence has actually been done for the Palestinian people by the international community.
Every time a Palestinian suicide bomber kills themselves in an act of desperation I feel partly to blame. Abandoned by the rest of the world to face the malignant force of the fourth most powerful army in the world with little more than their bare hands, one has to wonder at the dynamics that drive a person to blow themselves up in order to strike at their enemy. Successfully demonized by their oppressors, these victims of a murderous regime must watch as reality is turned on its head and the victimized are turned into arch-vilains while the oppressor claims perpetual victimhood. In this situation it is inevitable that some tiny number will snap and say, "Well, if that is how you paint me, then that is how I shall act." Then when this person blows up a busload of civilians, the Zionists rejoice in their good fortune. Every time this happens we should be recognizing that we, the rest of the world have driven this person to such desperation because we have abandoned them to the snake-pit.
The Palestinians don't have the advantage that the South Africans had in their struggle against oppression and therefore it becomes all the more important that an effective international support for the Palestinians is built and that the support for Zionism be undermined. I have my own ideas about what is strategically good or bad ideas about this struggle, but the struggle belongs to the Palestinian People and they have called for a boycott of Israel. That is what they have decided they need, and therefore, that is what the rest of the world owes to the Palestinians right now.
As for the balance of your response, I'm not quite sure what you are saying. I concur with your history. I respect the election outcome that put Hamas in power and wrote to my Prime Minister demanding that he respect the will of the Palestinian People when Canada refused to recognize the Hamas Government. Now we have a rift between Hamas and Fatah and it is not my place to start siding with one or the other, but it looks as if the Zionist are successfully engineering a rift that works to their advantage.
I agree with you say about the history of Western imperialism but I am completely at odds with one sentence of yours:
"Culturally they are 500 years behind us, spiritually they do not have our endurance or our strength of will . . ."
This seems completely at odds with the thrust of what you have said previously. 500 years behind in what sense? I could understand if you had suggested that their technology was a little behind, but culturally 500 years behind just makes no sense. They have a culture that equals the West in 1500? Are you talking about the culture of Cortez as opposed to the culture of the Aztecs or the culture that produced the Constitution of the Iroquois that inspired Franklin when he drew up the Constitition of the USA.
And " . . . spiritually they do not have our endurance and strength of will . . . " leaves me in a state of utter confusion. I have met a Palestinian school teacher who has lived most of her life in Bethlehem. I was completed captivated by her compassion and clarity of understanding. I was heartbroken as she described the difficulties of teaching children with battle-fatigue. Nothing about her betrayed the fact that her people were 500 years behind mine, but more pertinently, I cannot imagine that it is possible for any human being to have more spiritual endurance or strength of will than this woman. She knew exactly what was happening around her and to the children in Bethlehem and amidst all of these brutal circumstances she remained an enduringly humane and compassionate human being. Somehow I cannot think of myself as having more endurance or strength of will than her.
So I no longer know what your point is.
To William Carlotti:
You say:
"And to give credence to your distortions, you cite a Jewish and a Palestinian author that justify the slaughter by invalidating the 60 year resistance of the people of Palestine to the destruction of their national homeland."
Have you read these two authors? Would you mind explaining your conclusions about them.
Also my "distortions" as you call them. Could you spell out exactly what these are. Are you saying that I am giving equivalency to the stones of the Palestinian children and the cannons of the Israeli tanks or perhaps equivalency to the pathetic Qassam rockets that Hamas lobs into the desert and the F16 fighter precision bombing of Palestinian apartments?
To William C Carlotti
You say: "So, its not the Hitler that Boxall has to look for in himself, rather it is the Jabotinski, or the Sharon, or the Ben Gurion, or the Golda Mier or the Joe Lieberman that Boxall has to look for.
On the other hand, there is not even a minute trace in me of Boxall's icon of evil.
I agree with all of the history you outline before arriving at the two paragraphs I quote above.
These two paragraphs must surely be meant to trivialize our discussion or to show your utter disdain for my concerns. Hitler, as you infer is an icon for the arrogance that produces evil. An icon for our time that may cover up the sins of the past if you allow it to happen, but an icon I use to ensure that I don't slip into arrogance.
Mr Carlotti, you are indeed fortunate to have, as you suggest in your final paragraph, a heart that is faultless, that is never tempted to feel ill-will towards your fellows. I have always had to struggle to root out selfish desires in my heart and to minimize the harm I do to others. I have achieved varying degrees of success and sometimes I think that it is becoming easier as I get older, but then all of a sudden I will do something thoughtlessly that upsets my equanimity and reminds me that the struggle with my little Francisco Pizarro in my heart is not done. Or my struggle with my little Winston Churchill, my little Henrik Verwoerd, my little Cecil John Rhodes, Robert Clive, and my little George Bush are ongoing.
Michael Hall,
You are one of us
Angel Gabriel Is a pig ( in slang ) dangerous as they come ,just because he Plays on both side of the border, you never really know his stand ( all one got to do recheck his posts ,they are regular and often , some bare substance mostly satirical , definitely ( I say ) from the other side ( spy infiltrator ,one could say , sorry that is my feeling till he prove otherwise in future post where he stand ,and maintain that stand , say as Richard and cat and xzp ,pippi , and a lot of others ,those are just the few encountered lately,
(((Angel Gabriel ))) ( and his side kick ) is a person you could not trust ,typical of zionjew ..he gain your confident ( ,by playing your tunes ) till you turn your back ..then you are History then he run to next victim to snare , you are a new kid on the block >> WELCOME
continued ( not posted as originaly intended )
Michael Hall,
You are one of us
Angel Gabriel Is a pig ( in slang ) dangerous as they come ,just because he Plays on both side of the border, you never really know his stand ( all one got to do recheck his posts ,they are regular and often , some bare substance mostly satirical , definitely ( I say ) from the other side ( spy infiltrator ,one could say , sorry that is my feeling till he prove otherwise in future post where he stand ,and maintain that stand , say as Richard and cat and xzp ,pippi , and a lot of others ,those are just the few encountered lately,
(((Angel Gabriel ))) ( and his side kick ) is a person you could not trust ,typical of zionjew ..he gain your confident ( ,by playing your tunes ) till you turn your back ..then you are History then he run to next victim to snare , you are a new kid on the block >> WELCOME
sorry only first part of post printed in comment
I will try again
ignore what I wrote as it is only relavent when all content of post printed
Thanks
Last time trying to post
the original post hope it is going to work for those still around if any ?
the post
Michael Hall,
You are one of us
Angel Gabriel Is a pig ( in slang ) dangerous as they come ,just because he Plays on both side of the border, you never really know his stand ( all one got to do recheck his posts ,they are regular and often , some bare substance mostly satirical , definitely ( I say ) from the other side ( spy infiltrator ,one could say , sorry that is my feeling till he prove otherwise in future post where he stand ,and maintain that stand , say as Richard and cat and xzp ,pippi , and a lot of others ,those are just the few encountered lately,
(((Angel Gabriel ))) ( and his side kick ) is a person you could not trust ,typical of zionjew ..he gain your confident ( ,by playing your tunes ) till you turn your back ..then you are History then he run to next victim to snare , you are a new kid on the block >> WELCOME
Failed again the post did not go through
Bye all who are still around
raymond /anonymous 23,
I think what you are trying to post is:
Angel Gabriel Is a pig.
Dear Ray,
You are pathetic! As your homework, please go back and actually check my post's and provide links to your claims of my being a spy, infiltrator, zionist, or whatever you might want to tag me for in your cell-less intellectually handicapped space invader world view. You might get Richard and Kitty to help you cuz god knows you're gonna need all the help you can get, and between the 3 of you- you might be able to figure out how to use the archives or a "back button" to do the task and prove that in fact you guys are total idiots to the point where even you can't dispute it! Granted this won't be easy for any of you as can be seen by your failure to understand how to post a comment using Haloscan - one of the most basic types of blog software. You bring a new meaning to the word "Basic"!
As for you atheo - back under the fridge glue-boy!
PS - Ray,
Michael Hall has written many comments on ICH in the past, but heh, I guess you were wearing your sunglasses and missed them all huh? Doh!!!!!
Maybe you could start posting under your real name huh Ray? Homer Simpson, or Chief Wiggins!
To Lawrence Boxall
It seems that you become confused when there is a defense of the resistance of the people of Palestine to the onslaught of the Jewish led, Christian supported Israeli government’s occupation of the Palestine beyond its borders.
According to your perception the hand delivered bomb is a gift to the Zionist propagandists and then, just in case that propaganda is not pervasive enough, you proceed to reiterate the scene, mentioning “weddings and school buses” even though those instances pale in comparison to the multiplicity of carnage that the Israeli military forces has produced in occupied Palestine----destroyed schools, mosques, houses, playgrounds, olive grooves, farms, water supply, sewage disposal along with the gatherings for friday night prayers and the playgrounds filled with children.
The underlining perniciousness of your assertion is-- if the Palestinians would just stop using hand delivered bombs, the Zionist “propagandists” and here we have to repeat the list of the scions of the propagandists in case you have forgotten---There is Murray Rothstein, owner of CBS, MTV, LOGO, Blockbuster Video, Paramount and Dreamworks Stidios; there is Edgar Bronfman Jr. Principal holder of Warner Corp., whose media venues include NBC Television, Turner Broadcasting, CNN, Warner Chappell Music, AOL, Time Magazine; there is Jeff Zucker, President and CEO of NBC Television; there is Michael Eisner, former CEO of of Walt Disney Company, Principal holder of Capital Cities which owns ABC Television; there is Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox Television, TV Guide, Twentieth Century Fox, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and the London Times; there is Peter Chernin CEO of Murdoch’s News Corporation; there is Mortimer Zuckerman, owner of US News and World Report and the New York Daily; there is Donald E.Graham, Chairman of the Board of the Washington Post; which owns Newsweek; last but not least there is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger that controls The Times Company that publishes the New York Times, the Boston Globe, the International Herald Tribune and sixteen other newspapers.---the propagandists would then cease their support of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli governments assault on the people of Palestine and demand that Israel quit the occupation, accept the proposal of Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel by all 26 members of the Arab League and enter into normal relations with Israel if they remove their ghetto like Jewish settlements in occupied Palestine and retreat to the 1967 cease fire line---not, mind you, the 1947-48 internationally recognized border.
Obviously, you are obfuscating, obscuring the matter----Israel is a colonial project of the World Zionist Organization that has been going on for sixty years to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria to recreate the Eretz Israel acquired by, according to the biblical short stories written by the Israelites, the total genocide of seven other tribal nations.
I hate to repeat myself but I guess it needs repeating---“Every move that they make, every peace ploy that they engender, every bomb that they drop, every farm that they destroy, every targeted assassination that they make, every Palestinian child that is starved, every Mosque, every school, every Palestinian government building or home that they demolish, every action that they take in Palestine and in the Middle East that their counterparts take in the United States, every political, ideological, philosophical, religious statement that they make is driven by the messianic, genocidal impulse to recreate Eretz Israel..” and that goes for their “propagandists” as well.
Finally, I must admit that I am totally flabbergasted by the fact that you ascribed the statement of one of the Zionist initiators of the Zionist colonial project in Palestine, Vladimer Jabotinsky, written in 1923. I quoted Jabotinsky’s “The Iron Wall” to give the reader a sense of the ethnocentric, neo-racist character of the Jewish Zionist colonial project in Palestine. You have partially exposed the character of the essay in your criticism of his writings while making the fallacious, the erroneous assertion that it is my statement. You can read the whole of it at http://www.marxists.de/middleast...ll/
ironwall.htm
Finally, I want to deal with the matter of “suicide” that you address in your response. According to the Veteran Administration’s testimony before a recent congressional hearing, American soldiers returning from their tours of duty from Iraq have been attempting suicide while in Veteran Administration care at the rate of 12,000 attempted suicides a year. The rate at which these veterans succeed in killing themselves is 18 successful veteran suicides every day.
Sargeant Christopher LeJeune, according to Time Magazine, put it this way. “We’d been doing some heavy missions, and things were starting to get to me.”…He recalls the order his unit got after a night time firefight to roll back out and collect the enemy dead. When LeJeune and his buddies arrived, they discovered that some of the bodies were still alive. “You don’t always know who the bad guys are, “ he says. “when you search someone’s house you have it built up in your mind that these guys are terrorists, but when you go in, there’s these little bitty tiny shoes and toys on the floor---things like that started affecting me a lot more than I thought they would”. LeJeune was sent back into the combat area with a prescription of Zoloft. The reports are that more than 20,000 United States military in combat in Iraq, mostly ground forces, are receiving Zoloft or Prozac and the military is now testing the use of MDMA, the prescription form of the street drug Ecstasy.
SEE http://www.time.com/time/nation/
...1811858,00.html
Given your statement----“Successfully demonized by their oppressors, these victims of a murderous regime must watch as reality is turned on its head and the victimized are turned into arch-vilains while the oppressor claims perpetual victimhood”----we are forced to give careful consideration to the suicides of United States veterans from Iraq and then to wonder what is there in the make up of the Jewish Israeli forces that exempts them from the same pattern of suicide.
atheo
Now I think I figured why entire post did not post it was the sign I placed after thwe last word Welcome
By the way I could not open
No Mystique Left...
By Layla Anwar
on ICH home page now
Something wrong
Trying to fix
it is not my computer !
Angel Gabriel
I will not post again on this thread
Point was made
Angel Gabriel show us your colour and then stay true to those colours, that all I am going to say, beside your point you made about (Michael Hall)
You said ( Michael Hall has written many comments on ICH in the past, but heh, I guess you were wearing your sunglasses and missed them all huh? Doh!!!!! )
that prove to you I do not register names , only answer points and consider every post on the merit of what presented , the poster could be Tom or Gerry ,Ariel Sharon or Sharon Stone ..That does not an iota of difference... some of your posts were awafull some good must say, that is why could not make a head or tail of your motive in posting (Very Suspect ...to say the least)
Now a heavy weight like ( William C Carlotti ) name I will never forget as I got records of his posting...That person I admire a lot, and could not acuse of any wrong information posting
Surprised to see him posting again on this thread
Not regretting he did at all
I shall add what he stated to his file on computer
I am not political oriented person never was, but sadden, and concern about the state of affair I find the world around me...
I just do my bit
I got other fish to fry and more understanding to fathom, I prefer association with the great minds of yesteryears
THERE ARE TWO TYPOS THAT MUST BE CORRECTED IN MY LAST POST.
The first sentence should read:
It seems that you become confused when there is a defense of the resistance of the people of Palestine to the onslaught of the Jewish ZIONIST led, Christian ZIONIST supported Israeli government’s occupation of the Palestine beyond its borders.
The highlighted text should read:
you ascribed, TO ME, the statement of one of the Zionist initiators of the Zionist colonial project in Palestine, Vladimer Jabotinsky, written in 1923.
Gee ray you need to get out the house a little more and breathe some fresh air,get the sun on your skin and relax. Your not up on some ledge somewhere are you? If you are,go back inside,take a few deep breaths and chill. ICH is my favorite site for news and commentary and i have been posting for years. Angie is a good person with a warm, compassionate heart who cares. Is there a problem with that? I adhere and try to emulate the lessons i fing the apex our collective learning; altruism. I am no better or lessor than anyone else and the wisest of us are the least. Those who serve others are those in the path of edifacation. Live the life you deem, be the person you wish, and forgive yourself as others forgive you...
Chronology of key dates;
1897; zionist congress calls for a home for jewish people in Palestine Pamphlet by founder of socialist zionism, Nahman Syrkin,says Palestine"must be evacuated for the Jews"
1904-1914:
40,000 jews arrive in Palestine; Jews now total 6% of the population
1907:
First kibbutz is established
1918:
WW1 over,ottoman empire(sick man of europe is carved up like a pork roast for being on the losing side.
1919-1933
35,000 emigrate to Palestine and now account for 12% of the population and only 3% of the land.
1923:
Britian gets a mandate over the holy land and ends up promising Palestine to the arabs and jews if they help fight againts Germany.
Britain really screws up by playing on both sides of the fence....
"Angie is a good person with a warm, compassionate heart who cares. Is there a problem with that? I adhere and try to emulate the lessons i fing..."
"Hey Wack-job start your own blog and post your cut 'n paste crap there instead of changing the subject on this PCR piece. Assuming you haven't noticed, there are some good comments relating to this article.
Go away now freak boy - participate or fly away like a good little gnat!"
Your Pal,
Angel Gabriel | 07.25.08 - 7:00 pm
And what's your point "Wack Job"? Posting my true feelings about your Liberapublican denialist propoganda routine, doesn't make me someone with a warm and compassionate heart????
I call it like I see it especially where you're concerned sweetie!
Your pal,
michael hall
ok
I work in the fresh air all day
michael hall
Meaning I do not smell fresh air about
Angel Gabriel
I just one post you wrote michael
That is all
michael hall
I said ( I will not post again on this thread
Point was made )
had urge to recheck
made a mistake in typing
I just = liked = one post you wrote michael
gee,hard to discern any tension,anger or venting here eh gang? Are we getting a bit personal in the negative,unproductive way? Veered a tad from the subject at hand?
Well then, look no farther than here for the latest and greatest,new and improved,government sanctioned,mandated attitude pill.
Yes you heard right, your heard it here, first. The new and improved,american hubris,naricstic,attitude pill brought to you by pharmicutical lobby with the finest R&D in the land supplied by haliburton and those wonderful enviornmentally green folks at Exxon and Dow Chemical. Wrapped in the flag,with a lovely red,white and blue spray painted on the pill which we have tested on convicts,mice and the general public found to be almost non-toxic. This little pill will make a true blue american from the most rebellions and intelligent dissenter. You will be singing and prasing 'Manifest Destiny" in no time.
Yes,after a few doses of this concoction,you will go to work,keep your mouth shut, consume like locusts,do what your leaders tell you,shop at walmanrt,oblivious to any conscience at all,pay your taxes,and remember that we good, they bad,collateral damage not innocent civilians,liberation not invasion or occupation, riches not debt, war is peace, fear is bravery,freedom is a cage, and the israeli's are always the victim, not the victimizer, they deserve and have a right to ethnic cleanse land that isnt theirs,shoot out the eyes of rock throwing kids and old women,torture,imprison uncharged and untried human beings(just like we do!) they have the right to commit crimes on people because it was done to them 60+ years ago and if you still disagree,take a double dose my friend-seig heil! Wave that flag! My country tis of thess...everyone sing, or you will be shot!!!
Ah, I remember when "angel gabriel" was on these theads insisting that he was Irish American. My, my, my.
irish,jewish,blackfoot,who cares,we're all sort of human right? brushed by the same stroke of our maker? connected,intertwined,brothers andsisters without borders,without fences,...equal...equal...
Well spoken Michael!
thanks Gabe,just one of my many posts...
To Lawrence Boxall
I see that you have abandoned the dialogue, yet there is a little more that I want to write about the choice of words in a dialogue because I think it can help us to keep our perceptions clear. I do not refer to the events concerning the United States involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq as a “war” because it is not that at all ----it is an invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation that has been met by a resistance not by “insurgents”. We read the conglomerate media ard watch and listen to it and don’t realize we are being confronted with the most sophisticated, the most expert, the most deliberate uses of symbols of all kinds---pictures, sounds, language. They do not choose their symbols haphazardly, they chose them precisely to create the perceptions of events necessary to support their version of the reality.
These sophisticates of the conglomerate media know what they are doing when they use the words “suicide bomber”, as you did, because it creates the perception that the intent of the act is “suicide” when that is not the case at all. It serves to produce such psychobabble analysis, much like yours, that asks the ponderous question “what makes them commit suicide?”
The intent of the hand carried bomb is to strike against the nation, the people of the nation that have invaded your country, ravaged its cities towns and hamlets, brought death, starvation and suffering to your people, displaced your country’s population, absorbed your homes., farms, private property to their own purposes and to let them know that so long as they carry out the occupation and absorption of your country they will be bombed, they will not live in peace, they will not enjoy the fruits of their genocidal crimes. And that, Lawrence, without all the psychobabble, is the long and the short of it
The fact that the person that carries the bomb dies in the process of this particular act of resistance is merely incidental to the act.
I sincerely think you've nailed it William - Pure logic and human nature combined with despair.
William C. Carlotti
That is exactly the way I see it
On the occassion of Solzhenitsyn's death this past week, an excerpt from an address he gave at Harvard, June 1978.
A Decline in Courage may be the most striking feature which an outside observer notices in the West in our days. The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole and separately, in each country, each government, each political party and of course in the United Nations. Such a decline in courage is particularly noticeable among the ruling groups and the intellectual elite, causing an impression of loss of courage by the entire society. Of course there are many courageous individuals but they have no determining influence on public life. Political and intellectual bureaucrats show depression, passivity and perplexity in their actions and in their statements and even more so in theoretical reflections to explain how realistic, reasonable as well as intellectually and even morally warranted it is to base state policies on weakness and cowardice. And decline in courage is ironically emphasized by occasional explosions of anger and inflexibility on the part of the same bureaucrats when dealing with weak governments and weak countries, not supported by anyone, or with currents which cannot offer any resistance. But they get tongue-tied and paralyzed when they deal with powerful governments and threatening forces, with aggressors and international terrorists.
Should one point out that from ancient times decline in courage has been considered the beginning of the end?
The rest of his speech is here:
http://www.truthout.org/article/...rld-split- apart
To William C. Carlotti,
I have not abandoned the dialogue. It is simple a question of my financial and physical limitations, and family demands dictating when I can engage here and for how long. Your remarks in Italics, mine in Roman.
I do not refer to the events concerning the United States involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq as a “war” because it is not that at all ----it is an invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation that has been met by a resistance not by “insurgents”. We read the conglomerate media ard watch and listen to it and don’t realize we are being confronted with the most sophisticated, the most expert, the most deliberate uses of symbols of all kinds---pictures, sounds, language. They do not choose their symbols haphazardly, they chose them precisely to create the perceptions of events necessary to support their version of the reality.
I agree and believe that the art of persuasion is what the ruling elite have mastered in order to maintain a world of injustice. Western academia has been an enthusiastic accomplice in this distortion of reality.
These sophisticates of the conglomerate media know what they are doing when they use the words “suicide bomber”, as you did, because it creates the perception that the intent of the act is “suicide” when that is not the case at all. It serves to produce such psychobabble analysis, much like yours, that asks the ponderous question “what makes them commit suicide?”
No doubt you are right about what the corporate media is doing, but I did not mean to elicit that effect in using the term. For me the suicide is not the issue, it is the target that I am questioning. I have no problem with the hand carried bomb being used against an army of occupation. Surely, though, the killing of children by F16 fighter jet delivery of rocket fire or by bombs strapped around one's waist are equally wrong.
The intent of the hand carried bomb is to strike against the nation, the people of the nation that have invaded your country, ravaged its cities towns and hamlets, brought death, starvation and suffering to your people, displaced your country’s population, absorbed your homes., farms, private property to their own purposes and to let them know that so long as they carry out the occupation and absorption of your country they will be bombed, they will not live in peace, they will not enjoy the fruits of their genocidal crimes. And that, Lawrence, without all the psychobabble, is the long and the short of it
To add to my remarks about children above: It seems this is your carefully intellectualized analysis of the justification for a military strategy. However, is that what the child who gives up his life has actually decided calmly in his own mind before strapping the bombs to his or her body. You can repeat the word "psychobabble," and accuse me of "psychobabble analysis" ad nauseum, but I am struggling to understand this and my "psychobabble" is not meant to excuse the Zionist colonizers (or any other colonizers in history) from taking full responsibility for their criminal disregard for the rights of other human beings.
The fact that the person that carries the bomb dies in the process of this particular act of resistance is merely incidental to the act.
Incidental to whom?
I will return to answer your earlier submission when I can manage. It may take a week, but I cannot help that. Just a word about Jabotinsky. I read him a long time ago and have always viewed him as the "honest" Zionist. He owned up to what Zionism is all about and was reviled by his fellow Zionists as an extremists, when in fact he was just saying what they were hiding from the world. Over time ti mask dropped and today's Zionist are completely at one with Jabotinsky.
Lawrence Boxall
You said
( Over time ti mask dropped and today's Zionist are completely at one with Jabotinsky. )
I think you are encorrect in that statement
Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze'...e'
ev_Jabotinsky
From the reference above
( [edit] Belief in equal rights for Arab minority
Jabotinsky was a complex personality, combining cynicism and idealism. He was convinced there was no way for the Jews to regain any part of Palestine without opposition from the Arabs, but he also believed that the Jewish state could be home to Arab citizens. In 1934 he wrote a draft constitution for the Jewish state which declared that the Arab minority would be on an equal footing with its Jewish counterpart "throughout all sectors of the country's public life." The two communities would share the state's duties, both military and civil service, and enjoy its prerogatives. Jabotinsky proposed that Hebrew and Arabic should enjoy equal rights and that "in every cabinet where the prime minister is a Jew, the vice-premiership shall be offered to an Arab and vice versa."[4])
That is not the case Lawrence Boxall
I could prove that the Jihadist ,Kamikaze, suicide bomber
Is the ultimate human sacrify , It is redress to equilibrium ( it the aswer to terrorism ) It is the terrorist incubus , thus terrorist try to paint him/her as silly, foolish , uneducated ,ugly , self hater etc... ( those are just the opposite to his /her qualitiy )
I say : Thanks to the human spirit for that phenomena
Man can be distroyed but not conquered defeated but not subdued
His spirit always rise to answer his tormenters ,subduer ,killer of his /her loved ones
( for thyn own self be true ) W.Shakespeare
Think of what is stated logically
To raymond /anonymous 23
Thank you for this. I shall have to think about this for a while before responding.
randy primm
Not for one minute, I believe that there is an international terrorist that they are paused to bounce on you and kill you...
They are the bogyman of the international terrorist the like of israHell the USA ,UK ,Australia, Germany ,France ,Canada … Now the most important factor to take note of = It is not the citizens of those countries the terrorists but their Governments , and their Brain washed ,yes sir, prawns , Militaries
Thus our fear is from the Government not the terrorists
You see All terrorism ( you blamed on others overseas ) are homemade ,are homemade are homemade
You cannot go to some home , rape his mother/sister , kill his father /brother , steal their treasures , then if he/she retaliate ..you say look there is the terrorist ..that is going to attack us and kill us , at our home , so we must attack him first ( not mentioning that it was you who attacked him first and he /she are only defending
Lawrence Boxall
I know you are a good man .and I think I am a good man too ( well I always try to be ,do my best think logical , tact neutral too )
If you think I am wrong ..
and prove it too .. I will be forever in your debts
As I hate to be wrong ( mind you I was wrong few times before .. so I am so careful not to be again )
Remember a tear of a Jewish child ,bring sorrow to my heart as that of a Palestinian , or an Indian or an African or a Chinese or an Eskimo man , etc any child of any race you care to mention , even the tear of an child animal too,,,
Now the Problem my dear mate is when then become Adults ..it is their indoctrinating that make the difference the foe or the friend ,the good or the bad
I think me and you and all posters on ICH ,even the non posters ( LOL ) share a very special thing
It is this moment this era of time ,of space , and more that soul in you and me and all around ,till death let one of us part company
Lawrence Boxall
If you think about it the likelihood of getting your answer wrong , is more then ,if you did answer me spontaneously, out of the top of your head from your heart...not artificially , not dressing ,no makeup , no politically correct either
I am off to bed now ...it is getting late in my part of the woods
Will check tomorrow
To Lawrence Boxall
As I read what you have written there is so much in it that is either deliberate distortion or distortion you have managed to absorb uncritically from our milieu.
You write, “...the Zionists managed to get the able bodied Jews directed towards Palestine while the infirm were packed off to the death camps”.
It is a statement completely at odds with the reality of the Ha’avara agreement signed on August 25, 1933 between the nazi-led German government’s SS, the Zionist Federation of Germany, and the Anglo-Palestine Bank. Based on that agreement the wealthiest (not the “able bodied”) Jews could arrange to be transported to Palestine by transferring money into a special account in Germany that was used to purchase German products to be exported to Palestine. It was an arrangement similar to the one that the United States now has with Israel where Israel is loaned some three billion dollars a year (which is rarely if ever paid back) and uses the bulk of that money to purchase weapons and equipment from the military industrial complex of industries. You can read about the details of this formal agreement at
THE HA’AVARA
You write with regard to the term “suicide bomber”, “…you are right about what the corporate media is doing, but I did not mean to elicit that effect in using the term.” Whether you meant it or not, if you use their language then you can not escape their meaning. In fact, your whole compilation of the psychobabble connected with suicide declares that the conglomerate media has effectively inculcated their meaning into your perception and into your expression of that perception in this dialogue
You write, “…surely the killing of children by F16 fighter jet delivery of rocket fire or by bombs strapped around one’s waist are equally wrong.” There you go with your morality play---“Thou shalt not kill”, “Do unto others as you would do unto you”, etc., etc., etc.
Of course the killing of children is wrong, so is the killing of women wrong, so is the killing of men wrong, so is the invasion, occupation and absorption of a sovereign nation wrong. By invoking the morality play, you make an equivalence between the completely invulnerable F-16 fighter jet’s bombs and rockets of the invading and occupying nation with the totally vulnerable hand carried bomb of the oppressed and attacked nation. The fact that these different acts ---on one hand, an offending nation acting in an obscene, in your face, violation of international law and, on the other hand, a defending nation whose resistance in self-defense is in complete compliance with international law--- is obscured and nullified, deliberately, by your invocation of the morality play.
The deliberateness of your use of the conglomerate media’s intention is verified when it comes to your description of the people that are hand carrying the bombs of the resistance. According to your description “…is that what the child who gives up his life has actually decided in his own mind before strapping the bombs to his or her body”.
Boy, you really have it down pat. Suddenly the person who hand carries the bomb to resist the invasion and occupation and the ransacking and absorption of their country, in your lexicon, becomes a child---is not a man, is not a woman, is not only a child but a child that does not know what he/she is doing. If it is a child, and most certainly it is not, let me assure you that they would have as much understanding as the Jewish Israeli girls who have been proudly pictured by the Israelis painting messages on to the depleted uranium encased shells that are nearly as tall as they are and being prepared to be fired into Lebanon.
You write, further, “…my ‘psychobabble’ is not meant to excuse the Zionist colonizers (or any other colonizer in history) from taking full responsibility for their criminal disregard for the rights of other human beings.” is a marvelous example of the proverb, “the road to perdition is paved with good intentions”.
To Lawrence Boxall
In response to my writing, “The fact that the person that carries the bomb dies in the process of this particular act of resistance is merely incidental to the act” you ask the question:
Incidental to whom?
I thought that stating that it “is incidental to the act” was a clear statement.
The death of the person that hand carried the bomb of the resistance was certainly not incidental to the people of the resistance, including his/her family. The name of the person that hand carried the bomb of resistance to the people of the oppressor nation is honored at the invocation to prayer that is heard throughout the Palestinian community. The name of the person is added to roll call of the martyrs of the resistance. The family of the person is provided with sustenance and support in commemoration of the sacrifice they have made to the resistance.
The death of the person that hand carries the bomb of the resistance is definitely not incidental to the people of the resistance in Palestine.
Raymond at 08.06.08 - 9:20 am said:
randy primm
Not for one minute, I believe that there is an international terrorist that they are paused to bounce on you and kill you...
They are the bogyman of the international terrorist the like of israHell the USA ,UK ,Australia, Germany ,France ,Canada … Now the most important factor to take note of = It is not the citizens of those countries the terrorists but their Governments , and their Brain washed ,yes sir, prawns , Militaries
Thus our fear is from the Government not the terrorists
You see All terrorism ( you blamed on others overseas ) are homemade ,are homemade are homemade
You cannot go to some home , rape his mother/sister , kill his father /brother , steal their treasures , then if he/she retaliate ..you say look there is the terrorist ..that is going to attack us and kill us , at our home , so we must attack him first ( not mentioning that it was you who attacked him first and he /she are only defending
| #
Raymond:
I am completely baffled as to what you are talking about (and the meaning of your post is not helped by your erratic punctuation. Just to help you out, and I'm not trying to sound superior, you should place the comma at the end of the thought; you keep hitting the space bar , thusly).
You say, "You see All terrorism ( you blamed on others overseas )..."
No I didn't say that. You are confusing me with someone else. At no point in any thread recently have I even used the words "terrorist" or "terrorism," much less "blamed" it on anyone in particular.
But since you brought it up, what exactly is "terrorism"?
Webster's defines it as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." The operative words here are "systematic" and "coercion." In the case of guerrillas attempting to drive out an occupying superior army, terror is the fallback tactic of choice, until it proves futile (the occupiers refuse to leave, i.e., the invaders felt no coercion), at which point it becomes a tactic of mere gesture, a political statement rather than a military action, and no more, and no matter how deeply felt the conviction of the native population, random violence is nothing more than an irritant to the occupying forces.
Conversely, the use of random, massive violence by the occupiers is a style of terrorism which can be quite effective, particularly when it is massive, as is the case in both Israel and Iraq. The random part keeps the natives disoriented, numbs their senses, and applied massively enough over a long enough period of time, can cause the collapse of resistance.
But I also do not condone violence in return for violence. For the most part, what the mainstream press has been describing as "acts terrorism" in the Middle East are, strictly speaking, perceived as acts of defense and revenge by the bomb-planters and the so-called "suicided." The MSM conveniently ignores the larger and much more destructive acts of state terrorism (the invasion and occupation of Iraq on the one hand, and the reduction of Palestinian territory and population, on the other), by which I mean the Israeli's slicing and dicing of what is left of Palestine with their Iron Walls, as well as their day-to-day general brutality. However, despite the provocations from the Israelis, in my ethical worldview, Palestinians are also to be censored when they return rockets, bombs and even plain old rocks against the Israelis. All that does is continue to give the Israelis an excuse to continue to genocide the Palestinian people. Do I approve of terrorism? No, no and again no, regardless of who's doing it.
At the same time, I'm not going to hate anybody for any of this. I condemn it, I loath it, it makes me angry, but not to the point of hate, because God only knows that I have enough faults of my own, and to accuse others of anything before I have examined my own soul is the height of hypocrisy. I go out of my way to avoid contributing to state-sponsored violence (and before you even ask, Raymond, no, I don't pay income taxes, and I haven't voted for a major national party candidate since Jimmy Carter.), but I have little control with what they do with hidden taxes that I must pay willy nilly.
To put it as plainly as I can, terrorism is a sin. Civilized people do not engage in terrorism, and if they do engage in terrorism, they are not civilized and must be opposed.
More to the point, if I understand your garbled message correctly, you seem to be saying there is a worldwide conspiracy of terror, which I don't believe is the case. What I do believe is the case is a decentralized, non local, systematic attempt to remold the world's political system into a giant collective of benign "capitalistic socialism." It has nothing do do with any particular ethnic group, but rather is being pushed by a loose confederation of extremely wealthy and/or otherwise powerful people (oligarchs). What you are witnessing all over the world (cropland diversion, privatization of natural resources, trans-nationalism and the attendant misery it has produced, wars for resources, territory, pipelines, etc), is the expected side effects (collateral damage) of this transformation of our political lives.
Unfortunately, you haven't seen the half of it yet.
Edit:
The line, "For the most part, what the mainstream press has been describing as "acts terrorism" in the Middle East are, strictly speaking, perceived as acts of defense and revenge by the bomb-planters and the so-called "suicided." should be followed with, "These acts, no matter how heart felt, are not strictly terrorism, inasmuch as the occupiers are not coerced, and not terrorized. They just retaliate with even more massive, usually mechanized violence, with a few rapes and tortures thrown in for good measure."
g. randy primm
You are nit picking amigo, (you should place the comma at the end of the thought; you keep hitting the space bar, thusly).
Now if I posted:
You are nit picking amigo, (you will not understand, what I say because) because I hit the space bar??!
Thus the sentence will be (I am completely baffled as to what you are talking about)
Mr, you are NOT reading a literary piece an essay, in a book..? All edited and proper with no grammatical error,
Correct punctuation... (As taught in school)
I am capable and knows the rules as you do... and I did follow it, many moons ago... when I was in school, But now with 2 extra languages .At one time spoke fluently, with their set of rules, ( wife talk to me in French ,sister in Arabic ,brother just in English ) I am not making an excuse, but just to illustrate your VAIN outlook, I mean your approach to posters, not as cap[able as me, nor as you would like thenm to be ..they and me got the same right to post and present our view, the view of a grammatically correct poster is not superior in any way to that not that superior poster … personally I do not re read my post before posting as I always find it lacking, always there is a better way of putting it always more to say or explain, so I post as soon as I write it, I pay attention to dictation more
Well now I forget what I am about to say as I dwell on that nit picking more then I intend to
Good bye
To g. randy prim
Here, again, we are able to read the function of the introduction of the morality play into the discussion of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government’s 60 year drive to achieve the strategic objective to absorb the whole of Palestine.
You write, “However, despite the provocations from the Israelis, in my ethical world view Palestinians are also to be censored when they return rockets, bombs and even plain old rocks against the Israelis.” At first blush—to describe what the Israelis are doing as “provocations” is simply, to put it mildly, obscene.
That aside, the function of the morality play, here the ethical worldview, is to equate the act of self-defense, to equate the resistance with the acts of aggression, invasion and appropriation
It is an equation that does not appear in a dialogue about the resistance of the French underground against the nazi-led German government's occupation of France; it is an equation that does not appear in a dialogue about the Italian partisan resistance to the colaborative nazi and fascist occupation and control of Italy; it is an equation that does not appear in a dialogue about the armed resistance of the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto to the nazi cherry picking of its residents for transportation to the concentration camps; it is not an equation does not appear in a dialogue about our own revolution against the English monarchy. In fact, all of these acts of self-defense are revered and even celebrated.
The act of self-defense is embodied and sanctioned in every form of international law; it is sanctioned in nearly all of the criminal and civil laws of the vast community of nations that comprise the United Nations.
The only place that I can recall the act of self-defense ever being “censored” or being equated with the act of aggression is when the act of self-defense is exercised by the people of Palestine.
It is the constant companion of a subtle but carefully produced and understated support of the Israeli invasion, occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond its internationally recognized border by treating it as a complicated ethical matter rather than a matter clearly defined in international law.
Mr Carlotti:
You write, "...to describe what the Israelis are doing as “provocations” is simply, to put it mildly, obscene."
I wrote in my summation, "To put it as plainly as I can, terrorism is a sin. Civilized people do not engage in terrorism, and if they do engage in terrorism, they are not civilized and must be opposed."
I think there's a possibility that you might have a Catholic heritage, so you will appreciate that the category of "obscenity" is subsumed under the wider set of sins against God, so perhaps I should have said that an act of terrorism, strictly defined, is a mortal sin. As I am sure you know, there is no gradation of sin based on numbers killed.
That aside, the function of the morality play, here the ethical worldview, is to equate the act of self-defense, to equate the resistance with the acts of aggression, invasion and appropriation.
You beg the question, Mr Carlotti. The genocide of a people is not equivalent to lobbing a few badly aimed rockets into the desert, or even an Israeli village square, and I am sure you know perfectly well that I didn't even imply that.
However, after you've killed your first civilian, you have lost all moral authority, no matter which side you are on, and that's a spititual law with higher authority to me than so-called international law; and yes, I do see the world in a very black and white tone these days. In a more practical vein, the hand-delivered bomb is a SPITBALL, accomplishing nothing except a renewal of the actual terrorism of the occupiers with revenge and massive retaliation, resulting in an endless feud situation and countless dead innocents. (and I'll take this opportunity to put you on notice that I have no interest in deciding whether there are or are not 'civilians' in this situation, so don't even bother to go there).
In my view, and as a practical matter, individual acts of "terrorism" (again, I reject the mainstream use of that word, but that's apparently the argument, so there it is) against superior forces are futile, therefor it behooves one to shift tactics, preferably to non-violent tactics. In any case, as I said above, I don't count hand-delivered bombs as terrorism under the circumstances as given, i.e., the Palestinian ghettoization and slow genocide. Note that I defined individual acts of violence against the occupiers as "gestures," but neither do they qualify as "defensive," despite the motives, understandable though they may be.
Continuing my line of argument above, I see them (the gestures) as venial sins, which is to say that they are ill-considered (the very definition of venial), and, given the Israeli mindset, all that is accomplished is massive retaliation by the IDF in the case of Palestine, and the leveling of Falujah, in the case of Iraq. Therefore, they end up being more a ineffectual form of "speech" rather than an effective act of war.
But you mistake me (I hope not deliberately) when you presume that I equate Hamas (a national, uniformed army under disciplined command and control fighting an occupation) with the IDF and its Zionist government. I won't even bother to reply to that red herring. Also, I would hardly compare Hamas with the ineffective French and Italian resistance groups. They killed a few Germans, but accomplished no major strategic or even tactical advantage at anytime until the war was basically over. That said, in general, I would give Hamas the greater moral authority in the conflict in Palestine in opposing Israel and Zionism, not to mention a much higher rate of effectiveness (eg, the July truce), in their guerrilla war against the Israelis.
To reiterate: My position is to stop the killing, by all sides. Immediately. I doubt that we can get the Jews out of the Middle East, but I am absolutely convinced that we can make Israel give up her Zionist goals. But I am not so pig-headed to think that that is going to happen until the United States turns back into a Republic again.
My disgust with the wars and genocides being perpetrated in my name is universal, and counting the dead on either side has become meaningless; the first death was the tragedy, and all the rest is just adding insult to injury, therefore I castigate each and every single individual with a gun or even a rock in his or her hands.
I can't make this any plainer: I don't approve of people killing one another. Period.
No amount of hair-splitting can erase the higher moral law: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
William C. Carlotti
Just
Thank You
'Israel needed to take and hold the Golan Heights for strategic defense against a Syrian attack' in the 1967 'Six-Day War'; ever heard that mantra? Well, not according to Moshe Dayan, who states baldly that the Golan was taken solely to assuage Israeli farmers lust for the fertile land. See video 'Loss of Liberty'; for many it should perhaps be renamed 'Loss of Innocence' re Middle-Eastern affairs. Also see video 'Dead in the Water', and read Peter Hounam's book 'Operation Cyanide'.
Paul Barbara, London UK
g. randy prim
You write,
”I think there is the possibility that you might have a Catholic heritage…”
There is nothing that I have written that even remotely suggests that I have a “Catholic heritage”..
If it is your way of introducing the Catholic religious concept of mortal sin you could have done so without any speculation about my religious heritage. If it was otherwise intended to make reference to general Catholic church doctrine then you must certainly be aware of the fact that the Pope has stated that the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan does not meet the Catholic church’s criteria for a “just war”. The Pope’s opposition to the Israeli invasion, occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders is also well known and most recently reported, with its usual deprecating slant, in the New York Times of August 8, 2008.
THE POPE'S VISIT TO PALESTINE
When I wrote to you that, ”…to describe what the Israelis are doing as ‘provocations’, is simply, to put it mildly, obscene.” I was not referring to what the Israeli’s were doing, I was referring to your use of the word, “provocations”, as an obscene way of describing what the Israelis are doing in the sense that it was outrageously understating, minimizing the actions the Israelis are taking to invade, occupy, and absorb the Palestine beyond its internationally recognized border.
You wrote, “The genocide of a people is not equivalent to lobbying a few badly aimed rockets into the desert, or even an Israeli village square, and I sure you know perfectly well that I didn’t imply that.”
You did not IMPLY that the two are equivalent, you STATED that they were the equivalent. Otherwise, why would you write in the sentence immediately succeeding, ”After you have killed the first civilian, you have lost all moral authority, no matter which side your on.”. If they are not the equivalent, and I maintain that they are not, how does the moral admonition in the last sentence of your response-----“do unto others as you would have others do unto you” ---- give credence to your denial of your stated equivalence.
Again, you write that you defined “individual acts of violence against the occupiers as ‘gestures’”. The hand delivered bomb or lobbed rocket is not an “individual act”, it is, instead, a planned, organized act of resistance with only the moment of detonance being the act of the individual. The Jewish Israeli pilots that have become known as the “refuseniks” because of their refusal to participate in any of the planned occupation and absorption of occupied Palestine. are the acts of individuals against the organized. genocidal activity of the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported government of Israel.
Whether or not the hand delivered bomb or lobbed rocket are effective or not, whether they are a gesture or not, does not alter the fact that they are the acts of the resistance to the genocidal occupation and absorption of occupied Palestine.
As a matter of fact, your whole description of the scenario with regard to these acts of resistance, accepts and supports the whole Jewish Zionist led Israel government’s rationalization for the occupation and absorption of the Palestine beyond its borders.
You write,
In a more practical vein, the hand delivered bomb is a SPITBALL, accomplishing nothing except a renewal of the actual terrorism of the occupiers with revenge and massive retaliation…”
I have twice described the activities of the Israelis in these pages---they are certainly not retaliation---and I see that it has not yet penetrated, so here it goes again for your edification,
According to the Zionists, "Eretz Lsrael" is described in that book of short stories that has become known as the bible in Genesis 15:18-21, Ezekiel 47:13-20 and similarly in Numbers 34:1-15, descriptions which have been adopted by the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government.
There is nothing that can be discussed with regard to the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported Israeli government's assault on the people of Palestine without the understanding that it is their strategic objective, already in process for 60 years, to acquire the whole of Palestine and parts of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.
Every move that they make, every peace ploy that they engender, every bomb that they drop, every farm that they destroy, every targeted assassination that they make, every Palestinian child that is starved, every Mosque, every school, every Palestinian government building or home that they demolish, every action that they take in Palestine and in the Middle East that their counterparts take in the United States, every political, ideological, philosophical, religious statement that they make is driven by the messianic, genocidal impulse to recreate Eretz Israel."
To g. randy prim
Just one more thing in response to your last post.
Your position is “ to stop the killing
Obviously, Hamas created the July truce to stop the killing as they did any number of times in the last sixty years.
That has not, however, stopped the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government from building the wall to create Israel into their belioved armed Jewish ghetto, nor has it stopped the Israelis to continue to build armed Jewish ghetto style settlements in Jerusalem and elsewhere in the West Bank of occupied Palestine, nor has it stopped their siege of Palestine that will be challenged in the coming days by sea by an unarmed boat of non-violent twenty peace activists and one Jewish Israeli.
Which brings to mind the fact that the resistance of the people of Palestine to the Israeli occupation and absorption of their country has not only been by the use of force but also by under reported mass demonstrations throughout the sixty years of the occupation. These, of course, have been met by the violence of the Israeli armed forces. In a similar circumstance the non-violent attempts by children to secure water at the publicly created pumps made available because of the Israeli control of the water supply has caused them to be killed by Israeli snipers.
Your morality play that transforms an act of resistance, according to your written description, "into a sin against God” must be a sin against the same “God” invented by the Israelites who, according to their short stories that have become known as the bible, commanded them in Numbers 33:50-52,
".the Lord said to Moses: Command the children of Israel. When you shall have passed over to Jordan, entering into the land of Chanaan, Destroy all the inhabitants of that land: beat down their pillars and break in pieces their statues, and waste all their high places."
To g. randy prim
Just one more thing in response to your last post.
Your position is “ to stop the killing
Obviously, Hamas created the July truce to stop the killing as they did any number of times in the last sixty years.
That has not, however, stoppedthe Jewish Zionist led Israeli government from building the wall to create Israel into their belioved armed Jewish ghetto, nor has it stopped the Israelis to continue to build armed Jewish ghetto style armed settlements in Jerusalem and elsewhere in the West Bank of occupied Palestine, nor it has not stopped their siege of Palestine that will challenged in the coming days by sea by an unarmed boat of non-violent twenty peace activists and one Jewish Israeli.
Which brings to mind the fact that the resistance of the people of Palestine to the Israeli occupation and absorption of their country has not only been by the use of force but also by under reported mass demonstrations throughout the sixty years of the occupation. These, of course, have been met by the violence the Israeli armed forces. In similar circumstances, the non-violent attempts by children to secure water at the publicly created pumps made available because of the Israeli control of the water supply has caused them to be killed by Israeli snipers.
Your morality play that transforms an act of resistance, by your account, into a "sin against God” must be a sin against the same “God” invented by the Israelites who, according to their short stories that have become known as the bible, commanded them in Numbers 33:50-52,
".the Lord said to Moses: Command the children of Israel. When you shall have passed over to Jordan, entering into the land of Chanaan, Destroy all the inhabitants of that land: beat down their pillars and break in pieces their statues, and waste all their high places."
Mr Carlotti:
Their God, my God and probably your God are not the same divine Figure. As for myself, I reject the Bible and 99% of its content as rubbish, except for the part where it says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," which also happens to be the central thesis of any number of religions - Confucianism springs to mind, for example.
That said, I do what I can; write my congresscritters; I vote for peace candidates (or at least isolationists when they appear); I post my scribbles on my website; I have condemned the actions of the Zionists and the support of the US government in the Zionists' actions.
As for quotations in re mass slaughter, how about this one, from Arnaud-Amaury, the Catholic Abbot of Citeaux, upon entering the city of Beziers during the crusade to stamp out the heresy of Catharism: "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own.")
If you have a concrete plan or even just a suggestion that might be workable as to how we can end the Zionists' murderous apartheid regime, I would be more than happy to hear it.
Over to you.
Mr Carlotti:
Their God, my God and probably your God are not the same divine Figure. As for myself, I reject the Bible and 99% of its content as rubbish, except for the part where it says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," which also happens to be the central thesis of any number of religions - Confucianism springs to mind, for example.
That said, I do what I can; write my congresscritters; I vote for peace candidates (or at least isolationists when they appear); I post my scribbles on my website; I have condemned the actions of the Zionists and the support of the US government in the Zionists' actions.
As for quotations in re mass slaughter, how about this one, from Arnaud-Amaury, the Catholic (a so-called Christian religion) Abbot of Citeaux, upon entering the city of Beziers during the crusade to stamp out the heresy of Catharism: "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own.")
If you have a concrete plan or even just a suggestion that might be workable as to how we can end the Zionists' murderous apartheid regime, I would be more than happy to hear it.
Over to you.
Please excuse the double post.
"Internal server error, please try again later," I was informed.
Oh, well.
To g. randy primm
You wrote”…I reject the Bible and 99% of its content as rubbish, except for the part where it says, ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’” that serves as your means of keeping the morality play going in order to equate the acts of resistance by the people of Palestine with the acts of aggression by the Jewish Zionist led, Christian Zionist supported government. According to you, ”…it is a spiritual law with higher authority to me than so-called International Law.”
So, you use this biblical phrase to dismiss, out of hand, the International Law of Nations, the Geneva Conventions, the Convention on Human Rights, the specific findings of the International Court of Justice at The Hague and some 250 United Nations Resolutions approved by its General Assemblv that condemn Israeli actions but were vetoed by the United States.
If I wanted to play games with your morality play, I could write “ it is acceptable to me to blow up your schools, your playgrounds, your marketplaces, so it is acceptable to blow up my schools, my playgrounds, my marketplaces.” but then that would make me as ridiculous as the concept that it is a law that supercedes all other laws even though it is not enforced anywhere on the planet earth.
You have quoted the vile pronouncement of Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux for no apparent reason in this dialogue except, of course, to make a generality out of the cruelty that is possible. It has nothing to do, however, with the matter at hand. My quote from the biblical Numbers 33:50-52 is specific, if you read my contribution to these pages on 07.26.08 10:44 am and 10:49 am, is part of the rationale that the Zionists use as the basis for their entitlement to the land of Palestine and parts of Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
With regard to the short stories that have become known as the Bible, Thomas Paine wrote it all for me. He wrote, THE AGE OF REASON
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.”
Again, Paine wrote for me when he wrote,
“Every national church or religion has established itself by pretending some special mission from God, communicated to certain individuals. The Jews have their Moses; the Christians their Jesus Christ, their apostles and saints; and the Turks their Mahomet; as if the way to God was not open to every man alike.
Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.”
Finally you ask what is to be done? In the contribution I made to this forum on 07.26.08, I suggested the following,
“In order to put an end to this genocidal messianic impulse of the Jewish Zionist led Israeli government we must insist, demand, support, and encourage that the international community use the force of economic boycott and economic sanctions to have the Zionist led Israeli government withdraw from the occupation of the Palestine beyond the 1947 internationally recognized border and to have them cease the blockade of Palestine's water, electricity, sewer, air space, sea coast, and borders.”
But, beyond that we can as individuals boycott those products that come from Israel that are marked with the barcode 729, and we can support the move for divestiture of investment in firms that do business with Israel, like Caterpillar that makes the bulldozers used for demolition of Palestine homes and farms, and support the academic boycotts of cultural links, research grants, conferences, etc..
The information to boycott Israel can be found at BOYCOTT ISRAEL
How Wrong = g. randy primm = is and deluded too
On the other hand
How correct = William C. Carlotti = is and how thorough too
I got, No ground to argue with William , but everything to argue with = g. randy primm =
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