??????
Palestinian land? Here's a fact-check. Israeli Arabs own their own land. Israeli Arabs are granted citizenship. They serve in Parliament. Not one Arab state grants Jews the right to political office. They occupy some of Israel's highest professorships. What happened to the 150,000 Jews who once flanked the metropolis of Baghdad? The vast Damascus community? Hundreds of thousands of Morroccans? Where do you get off to happily slap the "DOUBLE STANDARD" sticker on Israel?
Is it the fact that Israeli chemists just won the Nobel Prize for work that is now speerheading efforts in a cure for cancer? Is it the fact Syria's massacre of 50,000 political dissenters in Hama and Lebanon over the past 20 years bores you? Or ... is it their blatant refusal to shut up and do what you so please?
I've seen that diagram before (or something along those lines). It puts theEthnic Cleansing-Genocide of Palestine by Israel (and the US Taxpayer) into quite a sharp focus. Very dramatic.
It would be interesting to have a similar diagram for all of Israel's violent and illegal expansions (and its unwilling and forced contractions) since its foundation ie Occupied Egypt, Occupied Lebanon, Occupied Syria.
That would be very interesting, but I don't think I've ever seen one.
It shows that you can fool many people with a picture. The intitial map does not show the government owned lands. As there was never a palestinian govrnment, tere are no palestinian government lands.
Additionally it doesn't show the lands owned by Egyptians, Syrians, Lebonese, Jordanians and the like who was content to rent it to Arabs who never would be able to buy it.
There will never see a map which the previous poster describes as the conditions for it were never met.
I'll try and see if I can find the maps I'm refering to and maybe post the link to them.
In the meantime, here is the evergreen, ever great Lawrence of Cyberia's calculations that the sum total of all Occupied and 'non'-Occupied Palestinians is greater than the population of Jewish-Israel.
A nice demographic illustration using both Lawrence's figures and thecutter's diagrams of the historical and on-going genocide of Palestinians I think.
I should have said something like, the Ethnic Cleansing and ongoing Genocide of Palestine, just to keep things in a more accurately descriptive and grammatically correct.
I wouldn't want decent serious people to mis-understand what I'm trying to say. Therest is propaganda, as they say.
Thank you for admitting that your discourse is merely propaganda. The honesty is refreshing and hists at your redemption. Good joke about genocide.
Of course, L of C's calculations are based on the State Dept. estimate, which is based on the PA projections, not on the last actual census. Try www.pademographics.com. See, there's about 1.1 Palestinians who exist only in the PA "projections", and about 2.4 million in the West Bank & Gaza, combined. Thus, for the region as a whole, 3.7 million Palestinians and Israeli-Palestinians, and 5.2 million Israeli Jews. Moot point, at any rate, since Israel needs to disengage from the 2.4 million in any case...
Nice to hear from you Eurosabra my friend.
I want to apolagise for some heavy-handed humour. I think I referred to something as 'English shite' the last time I spoke with you. When I looked at it again later, is was very crude and a bit incivil.
My apologies for any offence given.
As usual, thanks for that good stuff Eurosabra. Stats have to be heavily larded with interpretations for me to actually take them in - or have them presented by someone with genuine bona fides.
Always yours.
PS Gilad Atzmon is talking about 'the British way of Life' in article posted by thecutter. I am just winding myself up for an analytical appraisal of the aforesaid 'British Way of Life' - it will of course be evry even-handed, middle of the raod and sensible 
Hello everyone.
I sent this picture to cutter becasue of its dramatic effect.
I was surprised there'd be so many interpretations.
My God!
Your god?
Hell, let's split the difference,
some god!
I stumbled on a reference to another map which may satisfy joe90...you seem difficult to satisfy joe90,
but I like that.
Of course its Palestinian land silly. Palestinians living on a land, with Palestinian ways and traditions, and yes still under fucking occupation,
excuse my hebrew.
Lord only knows who's next!
Any way, if you're interested in seeing another, this link has more detailed information:
http://www4.alternativenews.org/.../images/
map.png
BBC also have a map section:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/s...tml/
default.stm
BBC diengagement plan phases map (part of a Q&A with Sharon, see map at the bottom):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ast/
4094590.stm
No doubt cutter will let me know if I've screwed up the cut and paste link process.
Interesting how the beeb show fragments at a time. It's difficult to envision the whole area when it is presented they way they have done.
This is why I like the pic I sent.
It may not be labelled accurately for some of you, but it is true to what took place.
It is true to how I feel, and what I see!
I go to great measures to listen to as many views as possible, because I am biased, and I want the world to know the pain the Palestinians have been going through for the last 60 years.
The pic I sent depicts that quite nicely.
It amazes me that characters still deny Palestinian loss. It really does astound me, infuriate me; it's on par with Holocaust denial, or American Indian denial, or the denial of any suffering, human or otherwise.
Now, since I'm on the subject, I'm in a position where I'm not allowed to go home and for me to go home means some Israelis will lose theirs.
I don't want to throw anyone out of their homes. Rightly or wrongly, more people will now be displaced, disposessed of their homes.
Blair did this when he sent the troops to Iraq. Against most people's wishes, he knew, once he sent troops in, that's it, the UK is commited and all anti-war arguments will be filtered out.
Sharon does the same only using settlers to manoeuver politically. He forces Israelis into a position by using political human-shields, and then builds his arguments on the presense of these settlers.
Just an idea, its probably pure fiction, by this logic Bush set the US people up by sending them into Afghanistan, Iraq was just round the corner, might as well nip in and see if we leap frog over the Iraqi National Gaurd (oooo!) which we heard so much about during the first Gulf War, remember that horseshit...nothing to do with oil;
and you'd be a fool and a terrorist to think so.
Wow.
I'll go away now.
I'll leave this in, I'm not a big fan erasing stuff.
Some of you will have a great time kicking it to sh
sorry folks, the map at the 3rd link is in the middle of the Sharon article, not the end...
If you are like me, you would have seen his face and immediately proceeded to the bottom. Sorry Mr Sharon, but you're just not made to look at, and this picture does you no justice.
x
PS This came through whilst I was posting (completely different subject):
http://www.truthout.org/docs_200...5/
081205A.shtml
"I go to great measures to listen to as many views as possible, because I am biased, and I want the world to know the pain the Palestinians have been going through for the last 60 years.
The pic I sent depicts that quite nicely.
It amazes me that characters still deny Palestinian loss. It really does astound me, infuriate me; it's on par with Holocaust denial, or American Indian denial, or the denial of any suffering, human or otherwise."
I'm glad to see that you have the honesty to state your bias even though you've heard the truth. It is an interesting phenomena.
No one denies that the Arabs living in the area have suffered a loss, nor does anyone deny that the indigenous people of Austrailia, south africa, Ireland, American continents, and New Zealand suffered a loss. Of course there are organizations around who specialize in denying the Holocaust, but I don't know of any denying any of the other losses.
As for human shields, they only work when the enemy is humane. Certainly no one has ever claimed that terorrists were humane so there was no reason for Sharon to even contemplate using human shields.
Not at all Zaki my friend. You're in good company.
The western elites are what they have always been, just like their brainwashed toadies, full of shit.
The great thing is there are lots of decent people about that don't equate the population of a country with what their scumbag governments get up to.
It doesn't matter if governments are Arab or non-Arab, Western or non-Western, Bush or non-Bush, Blair or non-Blair, Sharon or non-Sharon.
For example - the great folk of Israel, even though they voted him in know that King Arik is a corrupt non-entity.
I won't even talk about the popularity of Bush or Blair, especially Blair who is hated with a passion here in the UK.
Ibraham you're so full of it, and so sure of yourself. You petently have not suffered.
Life must be so easy for you. So sure of how things 'fit' together.
You're wrong, and my I recommend you stay off-line till you meditate on what you are implying.
Also, please do not patronise me for being honest because it suits your lame fucking argument.
In short, screw you.
All people under severe occuapation do what they can to survive.
I suppose you would label (pathetically) the French Resistance as a bunch of terrorists.
Here's a cute one for you, what do you call an Israeli settler who carries arms and shoots Palestinians to "defend himself"! What about the settler who sells arms to Palestinians? What about the Israelis who let the Paelstinians into Israel to harm civilians? You think war is clean with well defined enemies. Where does this fit into your neat little schema? The settler is the aggressor not the Palestinian. All Israelis are settlers, do you understand?
Israel is a brand new term, which is only supported by the American tax payer. Okay? Once the Americans decide Israel is too expensive, Israel will be relegate to Arab status.
Let's how see many Israelis will remain commited then.
But this seems to be your vocation, to spew out rubbish and only interact with those who suit you. Just like the good colonialist you are IbrahIm, spell it properly for crissake!
Israelis are wannabe Arabs, and one day, Israel will be just another suburb of Arabia.
I have a simple message to Israelis. If you want to live in peace with Arabs then all you have to do improve improve your manners. You've already acquired a taste for our good food, and now its time for you to embrace our "good manners".
I do not know why I even bother talking to conceited pigs like you. As you can see, I have embraced Western biligerence in my language.
Expect more, should decide to hold on to your pathetic stance.
I have to fly away today, and may not have access to the internet for a few days...
just in case I don't get round to writing anything back today; please excuse me if I seem to be ignoring you Ibraham. I am not. I think you are beginning to open up, but you will need some prying before the world can begin appreciating your real beauty.
x
i put up another map. I still think that the graphic one from Zaki illustrates the reality better than any other one I've seen.
The problem is precisely as he says. There was a land where Palestinian people lived as Palestinians. They were either expelled, killed or made to live under foreign domination with or without some kind of State having them as citizens.
anyone who denies this is a liar. I know, it's ugly, the way Israel was founded, so they had to invent a fairy tale that it was a barren land and apply the legal concept of terra nullius, where they could settle in places where there was no one. We know the truth. It is useless to continue denying it. That only makes you look like a liar.
I think your theory on how once the US and UK put troops in, we are expected to put up and shut up is a correct assessment, Zaki. Israel had the same gig going for a long time, but not only with the settlers. How many times have we heard, "Israelis are there now, so we have to just go on from there". OK. So pay all Palestinians reparations, accept them as equal citizens, meaning that they can move freely, and also have their rights recognised, and then one man one vote. But, practical visions stop in their tracks when you point out these prospects. No, they aren't supposed to be equal... let them work out some solution on their own.
Sooner or later, the time will come, it has to come, when justice will prevail.
As long as surveys show that the Arabs in the region are not interested in peace there will never be an acceptance in Israel.
The only time Palestinians have lived as Palestinians was from 1967 through 2000, the beginning of the 2nd Intafada.
From 1948 to 1967, they were treated like cayttle by the Jordanians and the Egyptians. From 1917 to 1948, they were treated as a backwards people by their British overlords.
Now they are treated as backwards people by their Israeli overlords. Ibraham, I can understand that your task is to be the Israeli cheerleader, but why is it so difficult to admit that these people didn't invade, but their land was invaded. They did not conquer, but their land was conquered.
Arabs in the region most likely would appreciate peace, but Israel has never promoted such a thing. It has used too much violence and oppression for the Arab world to just sit back and say, let's shake hands and be best buddies.
What do you mean by "the only time Palestinians have lived as Palestinians was from 1967 through 2000"? As far as I know, they have been living as Palestinians for many generations. And if you are to go now on a tangent that they didn't have their State, that sort of argues against any legitimacy for a Jewish people. Think before you answer. We have all the time you need.
Cutter. Fact-check. Every single time an Arab leader has requested land in return for permanent peace, Israel has accepted.
1. Menachem Begin accepted the offer by Egypt's Anwar Sadaat - a former Nazi collaborator - for peace in return for all of the Sinai Peninsula.
2. Rabin accepted a no-strings-attached peace treaty with Jordan's King Hussein in 1994.
To clarify your misconception about "Palestinian" nationhood: Most of the international community pre-1967, among them all nations in the Soviet bloc, were clamoring for a division of all land in Palestine to existing Arab governments.
IN OTHER WORDS: Palestinian nationhood was not even a concept to Palestinian Arabs until afterwards. It's really that simple. In all of history, there has never - ever - been a sovereign Palestinian state.
Hence Hamas' slogan: Drive the Infidels into the sea.
Thank you Joe, I couldn't have done better.
Egypt got Egyptian land.
Jordan's offer, what was that??? Palestinians sure didn't get any land back.
So, you Joe, are saying that you need a Sovereign State to be a nation? So, the "Jewish Nation" that I have heard hoity toited since infancy is just a modern day invention? If that is so, they have no right at all since they have been created ad hoc a state out of the land belonging to another people. No legitimacy whatsoever.
Palestinians have made no concrete peace offers, only intafads when it became clear that they would not get 100% of there demands.
Joe is not saying you need to have a soveriegn State, International law is stating it. For certain legal claims, legality must be involved. Where are your cries for the poor Kurds and their dreams of Kurdistan?
You keep forgeting that the land belonged to the Ottomans and then the British, who promised it to the Jews for their assistance in defeating the Ottomans. The vast majority of Arabs living in the area were transient tenent farmers, owning little more than the clothes on their backs.
For Joe90:
"Abdullah...felt strong enough to threaten the Zionists with war unless they agreed to his demands. At an interview with Mrs. Meyerson [Golda Meir] shortly before 15 May he demanded that Palestine should remain undivided--i.e. that there should be no Zionist state--and that, at the end of one year, it should amalgamate with Jordan. Two days before the outbreak of the war he again repeated his demand."--Elie Kedourie, _The Chatham House Version_, p.231
I suppose I can also find you the date that the Haganah stopped the advance of the Jordanian armoured cars into WEST Jerusalem by collapsing the outer wall of the Hospice of Notre Dame, which was soon after the outbreak of the war...as well as the expulsion of the residents of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City (who might very well have remained in Jordan, since they had managed as dhimmis under the Ottoman governments for ca. 500 years, the Mamlukes etc. before that...)
So your "no Jordanian attempt conquest of Israel/No Jordanian opposition to Israel's existence" thesis may not hold...
Of course, somebody's fact is someone else's interpretation...
Read Walid Khalidi's Before Their Diaspora to see how the Palestinians lived before the Nakba. Read his All that Remains to see the destruction that was wrought on four hundred plus villages. Take a look at http://www.palestineremembered.com for photos of Palestinian villages before the Nakba, and later destruction in 1967.
Check out what the genocidal Jewish supremicists did to the village of Imwas in 1967; what was once a thriving village is now a park named Canada Park. Those dimes that went for trees in Israel paid for trees that were planted on ethnically cleansed and then destroyed villages. My aunt pointed it all out to me on the way from Lydd to Ramallah. Wells were poisoned to deter refugees trying to get back to their villages.
This is all documented many times over.
Yes, 1948, destruction of Palestinian villages following the terror campaign of the jihadias and the Arab Salvation Army against the Jewish population of Mandatory Palestine in 1947, and the invasion of the newly-declared State of Israel by five--count 'em--five Arab armies and their British & Nazi henchmen...
I do, however, agree that Imwas, Beit Yalu, etc. are a great pity, Israel assumed that the land would be returned--to intolerable security risk--if the villages were left and the border was not "corrected." To this day, Highway 1 runs into the West Bank for a kilometer or two near Latrun, and I doubt Israel would much relish allowing *another* siege of Jerusalem and the closing of the road.
And no, Umm K, you don't want peace--you want Palestine in the place of Israel, which might be tolerable, except that you also know that Khaled Mashal *really* makes Palestinian policy and Edward Said *never did*, which means the Jews DEAD or GONE, should the Palestinians ever be victorious, just as the Mufti always willed it.
NB to clarify, I *do* believe that you indeed want "One Palestine, Complete" in peace but I also know you know how marginal such views are in the Palestinian political discourse at present. (Not to mention the marginality of anti-Zionism on the Israeli political scene)... Since I'm convinced you are acting in good faith, I'll assume you're a total idealist. Have you had any contact with the Palestinian-of-Israel (fairly) non-Islamist groups like Abna el-Balad, etc.? The future, I think, lies at the fringes of the currently possible...
NB-2, I'm looking at the current composition of the society and trying to see if there's some way the Arab parties, religious Jews & Jews of Arab lands could swing some kind of mass revolt. Remember, 85% of Israeli citizens are of Middle Eastern heritage...the best bet for exploding Israel is to convince the Moroccan & Iraqi Jews & their descendants that their right to remain unharmed in their own homeland will be respected..."secular, democratic state" hasn't cut it so far...irritating, I know, as reciprocity in this respect is not yet forthcoming, nor has it even been hinted at...
Well, it was a rather complicated situation on the ground, but to say that Israel was attacked by 5 Arab nations is a bit rich Eurosabra.
And let's face it, Palestine has never went to war with Israel, as it has never been allowed to be a self-determined entity by its oppressors, so that is one 'Arab Nation' out the frame.
Jordan didn't really attack Israel. In the melee, it would have been easy to get signals confused. Ben-Gurion himself personally, prevented an elite paratroop unit from venturing further into the West Bank - the obvious sign of a deal with British-Jordan.
As for the other 3 'Arab Nations', count them only 3, they joined in to help save defenceless Palestine, not attack Israel.
As far that 'Joe' guy Anwar Sadat was a 'Nazi', what if was was or wasn't big deal ! Prove it.
Menacham Begin refused peace on any terms except Egypt going to war once Israel began to ethnically cleanse the Sinai and build the racially pure city of Yamit.
As late as the Saudi Peace offer of 2002, the Israel Regime rejected integration into the region, preferring instead, as it has always done, confrontation and belligerence. Although these days the regime is without any friends and is alone, solely reliant on the US to keep this island-utopia of free-market liberal democracy afloat.
This is why I won't abandon ordinary decent Israelis who want to live in a decent civilised country and need help to fight these outside extremists who have turned their Government into the regime we see today, unfortunately.
Read Anis Sayegh's Zionist Terroism File for edification regarding just a sampling the colonists' terrorism. Colonisation itself is terrorism. Palestinian violence stemmed from the fear of colonisation of their land.
http://www.angelfire.com/ia/ pale...rorismfile.html
Euro,
No Jew will ever actually feel safe in an islamic country. Too many pogroms, too many years as dhimmis.
It seems our german based educator is trying to turn the definition of words into an art form. Too bad she has to sacrifice the trtuh to make that concept work.
Joe90:
The Palestinians' forces were well-represented by paramilitary groups such as the Arab Salvation Army of Fauzi al-Qawakji and in fact they were militarily superior until Plan Dalet allowed the Israelis to control the roads. If Qawkaji's militia had held on until May 15th north of Jenin (instead of being pushed back before then) the Palestinians would have prevailed in the Galilee, leading to a joint Syrian-Iraqi push to Haifa and Acre. The war was a very near-run thing until the end of July.
Jordanian troops did in fact take over Kfar Etzion (outside the '47 "Jewish state" proposal, granted) and did indeed stand by as local Palestinians massacred virtually all of the defenders. They took over the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, took roughly 1000 POWs to Jordan, and expelled ca. 2000-3000 religious Jews, people often so well-integrated--dependent on their family links to their (sometimes Arab) neighbours--that they might have continued life reasonably well under Jordanian rule. It's true that the Israelis DID hold off at the end of the war, but it was from fear of harm to the Jordanian Arab Legion's British officers, knowing that Bevin would have loved to bring the British into the war on the side of the Arabs--the RAF attacked Israeli transport in the Negev by "mistake", to bring the Israeli advance into the Sinai to an end. The Israelis thus had to take Negba by outflanking it from the Negev, not from the Sinai. The Jordanians DID pull back from Umm Rashrash, 'Ain Husub, etc. at the end of the war because the Partition Plan allocated them to Israel and the British would not allow them to fight for areas of the SE Negev allocated to Israel by the plan. I still think the Jordanians went for the whole of Jerusalem and were surprised to be stopped, however...
Ibrahim,
The remnant Jewish community of Morocco is doing quite well as a "Potemkin village" to demonstrate the King's enlightened ways. Historically, there has been a tension between Morocco's hostility to its Jews and the tolerant policy of the royal house. Indeed, Morocco managed to export all but 3,000 of its Jews, and that tiny community is the only one remaining anywhere in the Arab world. And yes, you're right, the former dhimmis of Iraq (with the exception of the former Iraqi Communist Party's Jewish authors) and Morocco are not going to look forward to life in any Palestine which would arise in place of Israel.
UmmK: Your Sayigh link doesn't work, sorry. I am very familiar with the history of Irgun terror in Haifa, since my father was ex-UXB (luv those British acronyms, Joe90!) and potentially in demand. He turned them down, although I can see why a survivor of Europe (like Begin) would lead a group of men determined to strike back by apocalyptic means. Ditto George Habash, although the PFLP's car bombs in Jerusalem have NEVER really given me the impression that they realised the political gains they might make by distin
http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire...17535/
index.php
The Zionist Terrorism File
Anis Sayegh
Ibraham,
"No Jew will ever actually feel safe in an islamic country. Too many pogroms, too many years as dhimmis."
Yes, my dear friend. For I fear the existence of Israel in its current state, will not help the Jewish plight.
If you want to you can go back and read my essay again; kindly posted by the cutter on this blog.
(I only have the one.)
This is the irony of Israel, or is it a paradox, a make-do reaction for helping the Brits get rid of the Ottomans.
It's not unlike the Brits to bodge things up you know. "Ah, let them fight it out," they thought,
"we'll help just help the vastly out numbered Jews."
I urge you not to engage in such lewd language,
"The vast majority of Arabs living in the area were transient tenent farmers, owning little more than the clothes on their backs."
Not only is it offensive, it is plain wrong to state such matters out of context. Palestinians are a people of the land, yes. And we nurtured it, lived with it in harmony, built schools and established our social norms too. We never abused the land.
We respect her and love her too much.
You should try these things some time.
My family is from Kifr-Yassif. Go there, like the blindly truth that guides us, it still stands.
Go ahead, ask about the Boulos family.
My grandmother once showed me a picture of her wedding day, 1920's Palestine. They look like a couple straight out of a F. Scott-Fitzgerald story.
Don't believe the horseshit lies that have been broadcast and perpetuated to please right-wing capitalist interests in the region.
Israel is NOT ABOUT THE JEWS!
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS,
it has nothing to do with religion and a lot to do with pleasing powerful interest groups.
Ask yourself, who do you speak for?
Who's your master?
Glad to be back folks, having just attended an authentic Moroccan wedding; I highly recommend the experience. The music, the colours, the sounds, life!
A picture does speak a thousand words after all.
x
"by distinguishing themselves from more radical groups dedicated to the subjugation of the Jews" PIMF.
A chief weakness is the Ottoman land laws of the 1800s, allowing the accumulation of land by absentee owners, the families of the effendis, who would later quite eagerly sell to the highest bidder. Palestinian peasants never controlled the bureaucracy that ruled over them in Ottoman times, or the land itself, both in the hands of the Beiruti or Jerusalemite or Nablus aristocracy. But everyone knows that already.
Khaled Mashal, making Palestinian policy from Damascus, has declared that the withdrawal from Gaza is the first step towards the liberation of all Palestine. So nice of him to clarify the situation for the Zionist Left.
Please excuse my ignorance Eurosabra, but what is PIMF?
isn't it a song by 50 Cent?
ahaha! glad to see you back Zaki, thanks for the great post. Keep telling them the variety and culture of the Palestinian people. A lot of folks just have no idea.
from:
http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_di...lgf_dictionary/
"PIMF - Preview Is My Friend. Offered by way of apology for posting a misspelling or typo, and failing to use the "preview" function provided by Charles in the comments field. Usually used in self-deprecation. [first documented use: Right Wing Conspirator 12/2/2003 02:47PM, referring to an earlier post in which it was spelled RIMF]. A little-used variant, employed when a poster is proud of his or her typo, is PIFW -- Preview Is For Wimps. "
This is the closest thing I could find.
I doubt 50cent can spell PIMF. (Phil Wilding gag)
He'll probably accuse me of player hating him or something equivalently mind numbing, though I do like to strut to old 50.
What happened to good old fashioned hiphop?
Good to hear from you too cutter 
Zaki,
Israel is about the Jews. And the war is about islamist arabs who despise the fact that Jews control what had been islamic land.
It is all over the arab press, education system, mosques, street and homes. It has never been about Arab concern for the Palestinians.
Ibraham,
I disagree about the Islamist slant.
Palestinians see themselves as Palestinians first.
Sure, there are thousands of opinions amongst Palestinians. We are all opinionated.
I think Palestinians and Jews are being used vis-à-vis Islamism and Israel, respectively.
Each is given their program, like little wind up toys.
I say fuck all that.
You want to now the truth, then chase the money.
Its just big business, and to make matters worse, the enemy is vague.
We are all being pushed around by business interests. Their is no such thing as Arab solidarity. Once Israel becomes even more dominant in the area, you will start to see the break up of Israeli culture. We already have serious divides in Israel.
Besides, since you mentioned it, what do you think young Israelis are being taught every day?
To love Palestinians?
How much history is being taught in school?
I was told by an Israeli History teacher that he was only allowed to teach certain things.
Both sides know nothing. This is the point!
You seem to have swallowed the pill wholeheartedly; I say this because you are all too ready to attack Muslims.
I am not Muslim. I am Church of England.
Big fucking deal.
Where would you classify me?
Why would you classify me?
Please, Ibraham, I am looking for solutions.
You want to say what you want, go ahead.
You will, and quite frankly, you should.
...
...
One guy put a post up on UmKhalil with a link to the BBC site. The Jews who left Gaza peacefully are being called "Nazis" by fellow Jews.
I had to read it twice.
I rubbed my eyes, I thought my dyslexia was playing up.
What the hell IS going on?
We are agreed on one thing.
It is about control.
Thank you for taking the time to speak to me directly, Ibraham.
You seem committed, and I respect that.
Newsflash, in case you have not heard,
September leave has been cancelled in the US, across all US bases.
Bush is prepared to use whatever force to stop Iran’s nuclear program.
Where does this leave us?
The US will drop the bomb on the entire region and start afresh if it has to, wants to, and more innocents will suffer. Of course the only survivors will be cockroaches and Halliburton.
We need to pool our energies, now! Bush’s finger is getting itchy on the button.
He is waiting for “God” to instruct him, “tell me when Lord, I await your instructions.”
Now, what shape will Israel be in when he does drop the bomb?
How will your arguments change?
I repeat, this has nothing to with Israel!
Israel is a pawn in a very dangerous ‘cat and mouse’ game.
Be aware of who your lobbyists are siding with.
The sooner you realise we are all in the same boat, the sooner can we start building bridges again.
We live in an age of mushrooming fundamentalism.
I am not proud of the human legacy we may leave behind for yet another generation to pay for,
courtesy of the Bush dynasty.
Amen.
x
While Israelis are not being taught to love Palestinians, they are not being taught to hate them. Mainstream synagogues do not have Rabbis preaching death to Muslims.
There is one aspect of Arab solidarity. It is called antisemitism. It is a shame, but it is a fact. And you are correct that the arab world is using the palestinians to advance that agenda. And the palestinians rarely complain.
Iby,
You speak Arabs now?
You are a shame.
Hello everyone.
I am sorry I did not pass by yesterday.
So many troubled young people on the internet.
Policy makers segregating communities.
Every one is fighting over everything;
faith, finance, property, sex...
Ibraham,
I see you have been busy, and more over you have not been meditating.
At least you are beginning to express yourself in larger spurts. I hoping your anger and contempt for Muslims and Arabs will eventually subside the more you express yourself; expression is the first step to healing, young one.
I cannot devote too much time to you Ibraham.
There are many like you, and of differing faiths and nationalities.
I will keep praying for you to get better; if only to improve your comments.
rubber duck,
You too are full of contempt for Ibraham, leave him be. I also see a deep struggle within you.
I will pray you find your way.
As for the rest of you,
the beacons of light that fill this site,
I wish you all a sun filled day.
All my love,
jesus -
is the precious prism that converts love into light and back again
- again, thank g-d for him and his wonderful gift!
Commenting by HaloScan
