Give it to us straight. Remember, please don't scandalize Candy's readers with adult content.
I'm first, I'm first, I AM FIRST!!!! Wheee!!!
Yes, I have no life. Yes, I am pathetic.
second.
Always the bridesmaid, never the blushing bride.
word of the day ,i vote for mary poppins famous one:
supercalifragilicious expialadocious
can i even vote for a word? lol!
Well, if we're voting on a word, how about splendiferous? As in that splendiferous truck just about hit me! Splendiferous jerk!
I heard about Candy through someone on another site. I spent most of yesterday reading about her on her blog and the anti-Candy blogs.
My question is this: Does anyone else think that if she spent as much time actually working at improving her life instead of pretending to be perfect, maybe she could actually accomplish something (instead of just imagining how her life could be?)
I don't know...just a thought. She truly is a very sad person, isn't she?
Love the snark!
Oh! and my vote for silly word of the day: fluffybottom
Kerplect works...in a weird, Jerry Lewis type of way: I'm feeling kerplect. Kerplect YOU!! Kerplect, kerplect, kerplect....
Yeah...I know it doesn't work. But I'm happy now!
That makes me think of the Church Lady. I'm getting all verklempt.
Wow, Candy posted another schedule. All of the sudden, her children have play time. Maybe she's taking our suggestions to heart?
Wow, Candy posted another schedule. All of the sudden, her children have play time.
And outside if possible!
I do think she is doing a disservice to new homeschoolers, posting her schedule that runs sooo smoothly with the olders doing worksheets on cue, etc. It is so helpful to know what to do when the kids blow right through a "too easy" sheet, or get bogged down in a difficult one and need Mom's help, so the K's reading lesson gets postponed (and what is he doing while Mom helps the older one?) and the baby decides to see if the book pages are removable and then the UPS guy shows up.
Then again, maybe that's just my school.
I like the word "ferdoodled". Such as, "I'm feeling ferdoodled in the head today". Personally, I've never thought of telling someone to go ferdoodle theirself though!
In honor of Candy I think we should use words like enJOY, MENSA and speshul.
From Candy's schedule: "Music time. We're learning how to play baroque recorders. They will be playing Christmas music on their recorders, and reciting poetry and such. Yes, they will be putting on a homeschool Christmas show this year."
She makes it sound sooo important, but guess what? A baroque recorder is nothing more than those 1$ plastic noise making flute things you can pick up in any toy section. Jay called his a "colioler" when he was 2. In other words she bought them plastic toys and they're learning to play Jingle Bells on them. Woo-hoo for you Candy! Another exaggeration cleverly tucked into your blog to make yourself look better than you really are.
Sad homeschool her children have. Worksheetes, worksheets ad more worksheets. Even I wasn't treated ike that in primary school.
I vote for verklempt (verklemmt), btw. Always fond of sneaking German words into the English language. But zabernism is another reamrkable word, or this list:
http://listverse.com/miscellaneo...-english-words/
Oh. Somehow I thought a baroque recorder was gilded.
We use the same language program. I bet my kids know the same poems!
The point I was trying to make was, even the worksheets aren't "automatic pilot". Our math is basically a workbook that they go through but they definitely still need someone to walk them through the multiplication of fractions, etc. And my math program is DESIGNED for children to "discover" the math for themselves! (Miquon Math)
Clare- I was reading back a little and saw that letter that you cut and pasted about Obama and abortion. First of all, thank you for standing up for a very important cause. The economy and foreign relations aside, I am most distraught about the fact that we have a president-elect with a pro-abortion agenda. I will not stoop to saying he is not MY president because I appreciate having the opportunity to live in this country, but I feel very strongly that we pro-lifers need to speak louder and clearer than ever to get our message through.
I saw one "Christians for Obama" sign in my neighborhood, and I literally did a double-take. There are people in my own parish that voted for Obama, and that makes me so incredibly sad. If you are a Catholic, and you voted for pro-abortion candidates, get to reconciliation and confess because in voting for those candidates, you are a participant in abortion, plain and simple. Pro-choice is a ridiculous term that the pro-abortion people have come up with to package this atrocity in a positive light. I will no longer get caught in the trap of using that term to describe what is plainly pro-abortion.
I also noticed that the picture was removed. It is very interesting to me that people want to make sure everyone is protected from the horrific reality of abortion. Photographs of a legally murdered baby are off limits, but my kid can legally go to the public library and access pornography if he wants to.
If my dog got pregnant and had puppies that I didn't want, could I resort to stabbing them in the head with scissors upon them being born to ease my burden? Can you imagine the uproar that would cause? It has really come to this. Obama is worried about our reputation in the world because of the war... what about the fact that we practice infanticide right in here in the great U.S. of A?
Tia and other Obama supporters- I do not begrudge you your happiness in your candidate being elected, but if you are pro-abortion, please expose yourself to the uncomfortable and get truly educated about what you support. If you have a change of heart, please act and let pass it along to your Democrat friends and legislators.
Sorry to come in here out of the blue with my rant. I've been stewing ever since Tuesday night. I haven't been posting here much lately because life in Candyland has been quite boring with all the recycles and the campaigning for homeschool awards. If she didn't think she was a fraud before, she should just take a good look at herself now.
BTW, how does Erik the patriot feel about censorship? Glad that finally Candy is really telling it like it is though. LOL
I think it is sad that other Christians and Catholics tell fellow Christians an dCathoics for whom to vote and if they sinned by voting how they did while the Church does not presumee to do so.
If I'd be an US-citizen, I would have voted for Obama, because I think there are greater evils another candidate might have done to the whole world, as sad as abortion is. And even a Republican like Bush didn't put an endf to abortion altogether, did he?
Life is the non-disputable necessity for being human, but it is not a goal in itself, as Christ himself showed. Therefore, I think there can be greater evils than this, although I'd have preferred a third candidate if I had had to vote.
I know this is an opinion that can be disputated, but this is a choice everybody, and every Christian, has to make for himself, and no other person can and should tell him if he has done right or wrong, or if he has even sinned by following his conscience, which I think impossible.
I've noticed Candy becoming somewhat more mellow. More recipes, more homemaking stuff, less MEES and what all. Is she up for another award soon?
Cran
The comment that Angie refers to is one that I made to you.
Going back to look at it, I see that Haloscan actually truncated it and I hadn't noticed.
I am going to try again here because Angie mentioned it, and because I don't think you saw it first time round.
Dear _____________
I have received your heartfelt appeal for me to consider voting for Barack Obama. As a Christian, I find your message way beyond galling, and into the realm of the surreal.
I can not, under any circumstances, ever support a candidate who thinks it is okay for a baby human to be chemically poisoned in its mother womb.
That is, nothing could ever prevail upon me to vote for a man who vehemently argued it was not a moral problem to have a late term child, delivered intentionally in breach, so that it's head could be punctured with scissors and then have it's brain sucked out so that it's skull could be readily collapsed.
In other words, there is no possible scenario, under which I would vote for a man who shrugged that the separation of the humanity of unborn humans from their rights as persons was ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE!!!!! It is particularly mind-numbing that such a blithe dismissal comes from a man of color, whose own personhood was voided only a short hundred and fifty years ago by the same Supreme Court that has arbitrated this the greatest social evil of our lifetime.
It is proof of the complete triumph of the civil rights movement that the group that was once oppressed now gets to declare another group subhuman so as to nullify their civil rights.
But let's be clear for the record, shall we? Not once, in the history of the human race - NOT ONCE! - has a group of humans separated another group from their rights as persons, and been right. NOT ONCE! In fact, the people who voided other's personhood - the others being Jews, women, Native Americans, blacks - have all been judged by history as being among humanity's most vile and evil of groups. So why the hell do you think this time will be any different? It's the EVIL, stupid!...
And here's the rest. The image of the grotesque and gut wrenching vilence that is the truth of abortion is not included here. People are squeamish about the horror they turn away from:
I guess it takes an intellectual of Obama's stature to render the above image obscure and subject to debate. Above your pay grade to say what that is, IS IT?! Above your pay grade??!!! A flipping five year old can tell you what that is, you gutless hypocrite. It's a little dead person.... Looking out for the little guy, huh, Obama? Gonna take care of the poor? It's not quite going to be UNIVERSAL health care is it, Senator?
Don't kid yourself. Abortion ain't just one more issue on the horizon anymore than slavery was in the 19th Century, or anti-Semitism in Germany in the 1930's. There were certainly other issues in 1858. There were economic problems and international disputes - but the truth is, today, we remember none of those other issues. Slavery was the DEFINING issue in the same way that abortion is today because the failure of a person to have a gut-wrenching horror over both slavery and abortion, reveals everything about the quality, insight and wisdom of that individual. Myself, I am not going to see my name on the rolls of history's dupes alongside the slavery question's Steven Douglas who found a political rationalization to support keeping black people as slaves. He was wrong then. You and your ridiculous Obama are wrong today.
So please, stop trying to convince me that your guy is great. He isn't! And don't you effing dare try and convince yourself that Jesus is somehow indifferent to your lukewarmness about abortion or that the war in Iraq somehow balances out the Democrat party's obsession with abortion rights. Don't you dare try and duck the ramifications of your vote in this matter. You must own the screams of the unborn echoing back to heaven in the way that the German people had to own the stench of the burning flesh of the death camps. OWN IT. Because you are a useful idiot for the demon of this age.
May God help us.
Barbara R. Nicolosi
Cran
You are mistaken.
The church actually does give voting guidelines.See here;
http://insidecatholic.com/
Joomla...te_catholic.pdf
Those who treat abortion as just one of many issues are misleading Catholic voters. Abortion is unique among policy issues because it is not a matter of prudential judgment. From a Catholic perspective, politicians are not making an application of a principle to a specific situation:
ALL INSTANCES OF ABORTION ARE MORALLY WRONG!!!. (NOT merely "sad" Cran)
Those politicians who are pro-abortion but want to be known as Catholic will try to minimize the importance of the issue by citing a long list of issues, with abortion being only one among them. Their method of convincing voters of their Catholic credentials is to trade disagreement on this issue with agreement on several others. But as the bishops point out in Living the Gospel of Life (1998), this would be like saying that you can build a house without a foundation, simply because all the other parts of the house are strong.
The Church's position is clear: A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals¯
The Church's pronouncements on abortion as an evil are spoken with the highest level of authority ”there is not the least hint that either a Catholic voter or a Catholic candidate can ignore them. The reason that abortion is the dominant issue in determining how to vote is twofold: First, the protection of life ”the right to life” is a moral principle that sits at the foundation of morality itself. This right is inalienable, meaning that it cannot be removed, even by the choice of the mother or father.
THE CATHOLIC INJUNCTION TO OPPOSE ABORTION IS UNQUALIFIED: Individuals are not required, or allowed, to make prudential judgments of the principle to a specific case. Appeals to private conscience¯ cannot override this infallible teaching.
lare, guidelines are just that, guidelines, and you can deide differently without "sinning", if you have good reason to do so. And "inside catholic" isn ot the magisterium. The magisterium would be quite divided if it was so, beause the recommendations in different ountries are quite different, IF they give any (we are given none, for example).
That letter you copied is to me nothing more than manipulation by feelings: Poor, poor babies, everything is so ruel, so Obama is ruel, too! Logical fallacy to me.
I do NOT APPROVE of abortion of any kind. But I do also not approve of other things, like unjust wars. And above all, I am opposed to create a climate in that trust in the government and in the society is destroyed. Kant alls this the worst thing of all, and I am inclined to agree. Without ttrust, the whole society, all justice, will fall apart.
And as I believe Obama less likely to undermine that trust by his actions than McCain, I'd have had voted for him, abortion neither here nor there on this issue.
And lastly, since I have the floor at the moment, I can't not address this:
"Life is the non-disputable necessity for being human, but it is not a goal in itself, as Christ himself showed."
This is a stunning comment.
Christ made himself a living sacrifice, of his own volition.
He did not do that so that 2000 years later you could minimise the sin of murder by using, of all things, the example of His supreme sacrifice.
In opposing abortion nobody says that life 'is a goal in itself' So it is quite false to throw that into the discussion in any case.
We say that abortion is murder and murder is a sin.
Christs death on the cross did NOT show us that life is not the ultimate goal and therefore some murder might be merely "sad" but permissible.
Your distortion of the message of the cross is staggering.
"That letter you copied is to me nothing more than manipulation by feelings: Poor, poor babies, everything is so cruel, so Obama is cruel, too! Logical fallacy to me."
Wow. I can't respond to this.
You are clearly on a completely different page. I see that you have hardened your heart and therefore an appeal to the truth feels like manipulation of your deadened feelings.
Poor poor babies indeed.
Clare,I appreciate discussion with peple who have diffeerent opinions than me. This is the main reason that I participate in this blog
Yu are free to think and write that you think that I distort the gospel, and we could talk about it.
But I do not appreciate it being called hard-heartened and can't see the truth because of it. This is in my opinion not very respectful of me and my opinion. I wouldn't dare call someone short-sightened and blinded because he can't see my point. I can accept that you have a different point of view and therefore have have different core themes.
I prefer factual exchange, so you will surely understand that I think this exchange between us futile. There is no replying to "your heart is hardened". If you think so, you are free to do so. Dwell on that thought as long as you please.
Legalised abortion is the single most horrific thing in the modern world. It is an evil act the cost of which can never be measured. That said, it will remain legal so long as the hearts of the majority of the people do not see it as such. Regardless of who is in the White House, if we as pro-life Americans want to see any change in this area we need to work closely and united with all groups who are opposed to it and most of all we need to pray and work to change the hearts and minds of the people. What is legal in this country is generally based on the prevailing social mores, and while there are a great number of people who would not personally condone an abortion they do not feel that they should stop another from seeking one. Until all who oppose abortion can come together and in one voice demand an end to this horrendous act of violence, nothing will change. Bickering amongst ourselves will not help and certainly will not change one mind about it. One mind, one person at a time we can make a difference and we need to start with our children and communities. Our society has a low view of children as it is and of human life. We also need to be grateful for each bit of ground we can get in this battle for the lives of our children and be willing to make even more changes that would make the decision to allow an unwanted child to live, less expensive adoptions and more and better equipped crisis pregnancy centers.
Ecclesiastes tells us that there is nothing new under the sun and even in this case it is very true. There have been methods of abortion and infanticide in place for thousands of years. This will never go away so long as sin exists in this world, but neither should we accept it and condone it as part of a "woman's right" no persona should have the right to choose who gets to live and who gets to die.
In all honesty I would love to see Roe v Wade overturned and made an illegal and prosecutable crime. I seriously doubt that would ever happen, but regardless if there was a man in the White House who agreed completely with me on this, that still would not make it so.
Those of us who want to see this change need to do what we can where we are and quit bickering with those who disagree.
How do you guys feel about the morning after pill being given to rape victims in the hospital? I personally think the morning after pill and the fact that birth control pills can be used the same way-should be the only form of purely elective abortion-they must be done within the first 2 weeks of conception.
Unless there is really one of those very rare bizarre things that can happen where the mom and baby will not survive if the pg continues. I know that law is currently abused-but I have actually known of a case when I was growing up when a friends mom was pg and about 1/2 way through the pg they realized that there was a large tumor growing with the baby in her uterus. It began to grow so quickly that both mom and baby were in serious danger-before any decision could be made her uterus ruptured because the tumor was growing through everything-she almostdied-the baby did die. It was a really scary time for my friend and probably the only case where I knew the mom was in serious danger from a pg. but these things do happen.
If abortion was made illegal would inducing a woman early because of complications carry the possibility of charges of the baby died? A micro preemie is a viable baby-but they often don't survive-so if a mother must be induced early and the baby dies is that going to mean charges against her and/or the dr?
also-since many of these arguments are based on religion-how fair is it to impose these beliefs on nonbelievers. religion to me is an organized system of superstitions based on a tradition of superstitions and a misunderstanding of the world in ancient times. It would seem perverse to impose laws on me based on those superstitions. I realize that is not how you guys feel-but it is my own feeling. I am entitled to my own belief. Your Religious system is no more real to me personally than wicca or any other supernatural force. How would you really feel if the wiccan religion became the dominant religion and laws based on that religion were imposed on everyone-it would seem pretty silly wouldn't it?
I do not support late term abortion at all~ by the way. I think it is the most horrible form of irresponsibility for a woman to allow a pg to progress that far and then terminate just because she was slow in making the appointment or whatever.
Tracy said:
One mind, one person at a time we can make a difference and we need to start with our children and communities. Our society has a low view of children as it is and of human life. We also need to be grateful for each bit of ground we can get in this battle for the lives of our children and be willing to make even more changes that would make the decision to allow an unwanted child to live, less expensive adoptions and more and better equipped crisis pregnancy centers.
I agree with this. I recently had the opportunity to visit a local center that my church and my family support. Their goal is to erase the perceived need for abortion in individual women's lives. I feel that a baby is a person and that life begins at conception. However, I also feel that it's pretty much useless to try to legislate morality. We have more influence over what that scared woman decides to do if we can find a way to help her and to show her that she can give birth to her baby. I was really impressed by what they do at the center.
I didn't read Gretchen's comment before I posted. I am opposed to abortion because I feel it needlessly ends a life. However, I also feel that it is tragic for many women. I think most women who have abortions probably do it because they feel helpless and pressured. Maybe that's not true in all cases, but most of the time I imagine it must be pretty emotionally scarring. Not to mention that abortion is a medical procedure that is not without risks. I think considering being pro-choice to also be a pro-woman stance is not fair to women who may essentially be victims themselves, whether it's of a partner or from pressure by their family.
Gretchen
Camille paglia, an atheist and a libertarian ( a woman who, in many ways I admire BTW) says that "abortion is murder, the extermination of the powerless by the powerful".
She write that "Liberals,have, for the most part, shrunk from facing the ethical consequencesof their embrace of abortion, which results in the annihalation of concrete individuals and not just clumps of insensate tissue"
She addressed the feminist rage directed at Sarah Palin describing it as " A psychological response by loyal liberals who on some level do not want to open themselvesto deep questioning about abortion and its human consequences".
I don't see the abortion issue as primarily a religious one, but when a catholic is indifferent to its enormous significance I may make reference to church teaching. A religious argumant isn't necessary however and a perfectly sound case can be made against it arguing from natural moral law. I know of at least one atheist who is anti legalised abortion.
Abortion is a moral issue like murder. Most non religious people believe that murder is wrong. Why?
Most non religious people also believe that slavery is wrong. Why? How would a non religious case be made against slavery?
I am suggesting that the same principles that you would use to argue the case against murder and slavery can be used to argue against legalised abortion.
I admire camille paglia because she is honest and doesn't duck the issue. Abortion IS murder. Can we find instances where murder is justifiable? Perhaps we can.
It is an irony however that some people will argue against the death penalty ( or animal testing) but have little issue with abortion.
It seems that for such people, the innocent are more deserving of execution than the guilty.
I am opposed to the death penalty and abortion, so, when I discuss this with my agnostic friends, I can be pretty consistent about my bottom line insistence on the issue of murder being objectively wrong.
Urgh! Spelling typo: ArgumEnt.
Gretchen you said "If abortion was made illegal would inducing a woman early because of complications carry the possibility of charges of the baby died? A micro preemie is a viable baby-but they often don't survive-so if a mother must be induced early and the baby dies is that going to mean charges against her and/or the dr?
also-since many of these arguments are based on religion-how fair is it to impose these beliefs on nonbelievers."
I believe that there is a difference in inducing a woman early and abortion. Abortion's goal is the ending of a human life, with the induction there would be care, work and much effort put forth to help the woman and baby. It is tragic that there are cases where it is necessary to risk the life of the baby but there is no sense in allowing the woman and child to die. I see a very marked difference.
As far as a religious argument against abortion, often when we who are of faith speak of abortion we do bring it into the discussion. At times it is because of people within our own belief systems that support it and we are pointing out to them that which they claim to believe in is strictly opposed to the practice of abortion and why. But there is still an, IMO, iron clad case against it without even one mention of God or any other faith.
I also do not support the use of the morning after pill as life does begin at conception, a case I can make without the use of my faith, it still results in the taking of life. I understand the desire for compassion for a woman who was raped or other sexually misused people. I am a surivor of both rape and molestation so I completely understand the devistating aftermath of these events. However, that still does not justify the taking of an innocent life that may or may not exist.
"She makes it sound sooo important, but guess what? A baroque recorder is nothing more than those 1$ plastic noise making flute things you can pick up in any toy section."
Well, actually there are expensive ones out there. We bought ours from Mercurious and they are pricey. But my children take lessons and I use some Waldorf in our homeschool so that is why. But you can indeed pick up cheap ones that will sound cheap.
Well, yes I know that there are real recorders out there, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't. But this is Candy we are talking about here. I'd be shocked if they paid more than 5$ for theirs. I should have been clearer.
Hey Candy - this brings up an interesting point. Since you are seemingly turning over a new leafe and all, why not post a picture of these barouw recorders your children are playing? Prove that they aren't some cheap things, but real musical instruments that the children are enriching their education with. Please, prove me wrong. I'd love to be wrong. Really. I would gladly eat my words.
Sheesh! I need more coffee...that should be *leaf* and *baroque*
Well, yes I know that there are real recorders out there, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't. But this is Candy we are talking about here. I'd be shocked if they paid more than 5$ for theirs. I should have been clearer.
I got your insinuation Tracy, I was giving Candy the benefit of the doubt:-) Maybe she will post a pic of hers. Hey, she is getting her kids outside now to play maybe music besides all those worksheets is on the horizon for them--good indeed.
As a scientist I do not agree with abortion. It is not only a religious argument but a scientific and medical one. What did McCain ask Obama? Something to the effect of "when does it become a life"?
I did not vote for Obama and McCain was all there was sadly, but I say let us support and pray for Obama. God knew who would be in office, didn't he. Those that don't agree on his agenda can send very loud and clear messages through their senators and reps in their states. He said he is going to listen to the people, let him hear you then. My husband and I are going to watch him closely and let him know how we feel. But God can do mighty things and He can change Obama's heart on things if He so chooses--so pray hard and intercede on his behalf.
Now that is all I am going to say politically...LOL!
And I still like the word:
supercalifragilicious expialadocious
Now to get my bottom from the computer chair and go make breakfast and knit all the gifts I so hope to make for Christmas!
I hope everyone has a great Saturday!!!!
Gretchen,
ALL laws are based on someones version of right and wrong, on someones "beliefs" and morals. To say we shouldn't have laws that force someones one beliefs on us is just stupid. If that is the case then we should have NO laws! Thats what laws are. A societys moral code, if you will.
ok-I think I need to shorten my question-which is this. I started wandering off topic a bit last time.
Do you feel that rape victims should not be given the various pills used as "abortion pills" based on the religious belief that God opens and closes the womb? Do you think that "in this case only" it is fair to impose religious beliefs on a person who wants that option. Irealize not all women would make the choice to take the pill(s)-but would it be right to not allow them that option?
I personally do not support elective abortion past the use of these types of medications. They must be administered before 18 days conception I think-that is old information from maybe 6 years ago.
WHY is she always, always "working on" or "tweaking" her schedule?
I know: Because it is impossible to follow!
Christmas program??? I thought they didn't celebrate "Sandy Claws", or however she spells that?
And yes, her comments basically fan her ego.
That schedule just makes me feel even more terrible for her kids.
A life of worksheets, parent decided activities and no interaction with other children is just...wrong.
Yes, every parent has a right to raise their children as they see fit as long as there is not abuse or neglect. But, seriously, does she honestly think this is any kind of life for children to grow up in? Rhetorical question, I know, but she really does scare me and the future of her children scares me even more.
They will be just like her and their father; scared of opposing view points, hermits who interact only with those who believe exactly as they do, with no social skills whatsoever.
At least they will be able to recite the KJV bible and argue for a young earth and call people names for believing otherwise.
Still catching up on comments, so I'm answering some before reading all.
Gretchen said How do you guys feel about the morning after pill being given to rape victims in the hospital? I personally think the morning after pill and the fact that birth control pills can be used the same way-should be the only form of purely elective abortion-they must be done within the first 2 weeks of conception.
First, if one believes life begins at conception, then LIFE begins at conception. It is just as wrong to kill a 2 week old developing baby as it is to kill a 2 week old post-partum baby.
Second, in re: rape. An act of violence will never heal an act of violence. Abortion does not make rape better, go away, or less traumatic (and may make it more so, later on).
Gretchen said,
also-since many of these arguments are based on religion-
Although my church has taken a very public and active stand on the issue, my arguments are not based on religion but on biology.
At the moment of conception, a new human being is formed. The new human has a different genotype from its mother, often a different blood type and gender.
It is wrong to kill humans. I don't think that's an exclusively religious belief.
Therefore, it is wrong to kill humans before they have been born.
I wonder if c will put up a picture (etched or heads cut off) of her kids standing in line playing their instruments? Or better yes, a video clip of them doing their Cmas program???
real musical instruments that the children are enriching their education with.
In fairness, even inexpensive or even homemade musical instruments can be beneficial and enriching to a child's education (especially in the preschool years.) Whose kid hasn't made a drum set out of pots?
Some might be interested in this blog post. Jen was an avowed atheist who recently became Catholic, and her blog is Conversion Diary.
She posted recently:
http://www.conversiondiary.com/2...d-you-
know.html
Every decade or so, take a look around the society in which you live, and ask yourself if there is any group of human beings who are seen as something less than human. A big tipoff is if dehumanizing words -- terms other than "man," "woman," "child," "baby," or "person" -- are used to describe any category of people.
And if you ever see that going on, you might be in the midst of something gravely evil.
I realize all laws are based on someone's version of right and wrong-I just wonder how some people may feel if their particular views of right and wrong were not the views used to make those laws. If this country had a different majority religion there would be laws that reflected that particular faith it would feel unfair when some of those laws infringed on whatever beliefs a different religion may hold.
of course i don't think any religions support abortion-I just started wandering off topic when I posed the original question.
I just wanted to know how this issue is seen in the church-and since IRL I am not very outspoken this is the first time I had the chance to ask what I consider to be a group of intelligent women.
Rachel,
Of course she won't. She's a very, very private person, especially when it comes to hubba hubba hubby and her family.
Gretchen, you would be surprised how many "Christian" churches in America say it is a "matter of conscience" (and then don't bother to help form those consciences).
I know that the Catholic Church and most Baptists have taken a firm public stand, as have orthodox Jews and Orthodox Catholics. However, many other churches just could care less.
And lots of OTHER churches actively participate. Planned Parenthood even has a clergy council or some such to show that religion is on their side.
I taught my children recorder-it is taught in most public schools as an introduction to music. You can teach reading music and basic music theory using a recorder. I teach violin and most of the kids I have taught were introduced to music through this inexpensive option.
About life-threatening pregnancies:
This does happen more often then you think. An ectopic pregnancy is always fatal for the baby and dangerous for the mother, for example.
That doesn't mean you can outright kill the baby.
In America, there are three basic treatments for an ectopic - wait and see if it dies on its own (not usually recommended); methotrexate to kill the baby and prevent further development, in hopes of the placenta detaching and the baby naturally being expelled, or surgery to remove the pregnancy.
The moral choice (aside from wait-and-see) is the surgery. You cannot outright kill a baby. However, the diseased fallopian tube may kill the mother; she can seek medical treatment for it. Unfortunately, the baby will die because we don't have the technology to save him. This is the moral choice, because the death of the child was not the primary purpose of the surgery, but a sad side effect due to our lack of knowledge.
That's condensed down into a tiny nutshell... hope it makes sense.
Is that the Catholic opinion? Interesting. Reason I am interested is, September 2006 I had an ectopic. My OB is ultra pro-life, unashamedly so, and very devout Catholic. When I was hospitalized while we determined if my pregnancy was ectopic or not, we discovered it was and his suggestion was to use Methotrexate. Hmm.
Keeping It Quiet. I am so sorry about your ectopic. I can't explain your doctors advice. I find it very puzzling.
"Do you feel that rape victims should not be given the various pills used as "abortion pills" based on the religious belief that God opens and closes the womb? Do you think that "in this case only" it is fair to impose religious beliefs on a person who wants that option. Irealize not all women would make the choice to take the pill(s)-but would it be right to not allow them that option?"
No, I don't base my nor know anyone who bases the disagreement with rape victims being given the morning after pill based on the idea that God opens and closes the womb. But on the idea that it is given to end a tiny little life. That is not a religious belief, but one based on simple fact. If somethingis not alive it does not need nourishment and does not grow. A pregnancy, even in it's first moments of life, is still alive.
I believe it is doing all humans a disservice to offer anyone the option of killing another human being. Now, I am going to get "religious" for a moment - life and death are in God's hands, or at least perhaps we can agree upon nature's hands. We are designed to die at some point and while we have the ability to save lives we should use it with ethics and not turn around take that same technology and use it to destroy life.
The belief that God opens and closes the womb is generally spoken of more often in what is termed "quiverfull" circles. It has never that I have heard of been used in the public argument against abortion, although it is perfectly reasonable to use it in a discussion between believers. As far as laws based on other religions, I don't think there are many that support the notion of abortion at their core, if there are any at all.
To me the laws at least as far as abortion are concerned is really a matter of common sense - a pregnancy results in a life. Ending a pregnancy ends a life. Ending a life is killing and while we do condone justified killings in our world, this is the only case where killing the completely innocent is seen as a "right" and a "choice" rather than a crime. Honestly, it leaves me scrathcing my head that people don't see that. It's so black and white that I cannot begin to comprehend how that is not glaringly obvious to all.
KIQ, perhaps your doctor felt that since the result would be the same in either case, the one that posed least risk for you was the best choice. I am so sorry for your loss, truly.
I just checked out the Dominic the Donkey Christmas song! ROFL! One of the links on the You Tube site was for the Hippopotamus song, that's one of my favourites! My kids get a kick out of Santa Baby. They don't get it and just think it's funny that anyone would call Santa a cutie! LOL. I play it for them just to hear their comments on it! So funny!
There is no way that an embryo is the equivalent of a baby to me. Of course it is the start of a human life. But it is also a primitive organism. If the mother wants it, then the value is immeasurable. But if the mother doesn't want it, I don't count it as a murder to kill it. The transition from a single cell to a baby is to me not black and white, but shades of gray. And it can be one of those dangerous slippery slopes to decide where to draw a line. Life starts at conception in a biological sense, but to value the life of a single cell as equivalent to a thinking feeling person makes no sense to me unless you come to it from a religious viewpoint (the idea that it has a soul and a plan for its life from conception) or if you're trying to avoid a slippery slope. But for me, I would look at brain development and awareness. For example, I don't think the cortex starts to get connected until midway through the pregnancy, but it's been a long time since I read about it and there may be more information now.
If you want an end to abortion (and you are not already vegetarian), would you be willing to end both abortion and the killing of animals? Would you be willing for tax money to house all unwanted dogs and cats in comfort until their natural deaths? Would you be willing to give up all meat products? End hunting, etc? Some people feel as strongly about the deaths of animals as others do about abortion. (Note, I am not a vegetarian myself. This is hypothetical.)
KIQ I am very sorry for your loss. I am sure your dr evaluated your situation and recommended an option that in their educated opinion was the best they could offer.
When our baby died at 16+ weeks our dr gave us information on the options on what we could do. Then based on her experience with me and our particular situation gave me advice on what she thought would be the best option for me. I am sure your Dr gave you advice based on not just medical knowledge but compassionate service during a difficult time.
Keeping it Quiet,
per coincidence, we discussed the dilemma you were in last week at university.
Milehi is right that the taditional (scholastic) viewpoint taken on pregnancie that might be life-threatening to mother AND child, the child should be removed with uterus/fallopian tube.
Many moral theologians today think that this is a bit paradox: The baby is killed anyway, and saying that removing the uterus, too, so that future pregnancies become impossible is more natural, is a bit strange, too, as the death of the child and future pregnancies have no logical, direct connection
Of course, strictly speaking, killing the baby without removing the uterus/tube is a direct killing. The argumentation goes like this:
- Removing the uterus/tube prevents the death of mother AND child. The death of the child will occure, but is not intended, the death is therefore not caused sinfully.
- If killing the child only, his death is intended and therefore sinful.
Personally, I think it is splitting hairs, this approach seems even legalistic to me, but that is a common occurence in scholastic theology.
I am currently not aware of a specific regulation that MAKES Catholics choose one of the options (meaning not choosing that recomanded option being sinful), unless you count the removal of the child only as abortion in every chase (abortion as a moral issue, not as the action of ending the pregnancy) and not as a necessary medical treatment, then, the answer would be of course that such ations are not permissible. Recomendations, yes, which would be to remove the tube/uterus.
The statement from Leo XIII from 1895 (somewhere around that time, forgot the name of the document) that medicals are not allowed to take ANY actions in such cases is certainly outdated.
Ok, to sum my ramblings a bit up:
- Tradition says only removal is allowed, not aborting the child only, because abortion is never permissible.
- Moral theology curently holds the mainstream-stance that both ways are permissible, because the tradition has a very legalistic approach here.
- Basically, having the tube/uterus removed is the save path.
- If you want to choose the other path, the question is, if you regard that act as sinful abortion (never permitted) or necessary medical act that involves undesireable effects (allowed).
Personally, I think this to be one of the grey areas of church teaching, because it is a very specific question that has not been directly adressed by the magisterium, and I think that the statements about abortion ing eneral do not apply here. This might also be due to the fact that the possibility to intervene in such pregnancies is relatively new, perha such a statement will be issued.
(Note: I am well aware that there are many statements on Catholic webpages ond the forum I link to below say the Church ahs stance x or y on it. While those people MIGHT be right, those answers have no official and binding value.)
This issue is also discussed here:
Haloscan cut link of http://forums.catholic.com/
showt...tubal+pregnancy
But it is also a primitive organism. If the mother wants it, then the value is immeasurable. But if the mother doesn't want it, I don't count it as a murder to kill it.
I find this very sad. The worth and value of the baby's life does not derive from its parents emotional state. An alive human being has worth for its own sake.
To say that a human being does not feel enough or think enough to count is, in itself a moral judgement.
to value the life of a single cell as equivalent to a thinking feeling person makes no sense to me
I don't think a person's value depends on how much they think or feel. A profoundly retarded person is still a person and should not be killed; a person in a coma is a person and should not be killed. (That's why I put that anti-euthanasia button on my sidebar this week.)
It's a slippery slope, so to speak. If someone is in a coma, PVS, but we knew she would waken within a year, we wouldn't kill her because she can't think right now. Same for a baby. (And this assumes that we know everything about thinking, emotion, pain, and neural development - which we don't).
to both sides of the abortion issue, I have this to say....put down your signs and stop trying to change people's opinions..folks are pretty adamant about how they feel on this issue..instead, become a Big Sister-Brother, adopt a child, become a foster parent, mentor, tutor etc. As a retired inner-city teacher, I have seen so much heart -ache in the lives of children that are already here. Let's all wrap our arms and hearts around the hurting kids in this beautful nation of ours, instead of arguing about who is right or wrong...amen and amen ! sue
Cran,
I think the fundamental principal is killing the baby can never be the PRIMARY purpose of any treatment.
FYI: I'll be away a few days......check back with everyone and the posts Tuesday.
I've killed a lot of embryos in my life, so maybe that gives me a different view. (Chicken embryos.)
CatholicMom Update:
I was my death bed last nite with a with a cold and headache.
DH states I have been whining since 4:00 a.m. and he gave me Nyquil (probable 1 c. because the bottle is empty) to stop my complaining.
And I just woke up...12 noon and nobody is home or at least not answering my "Is anybody home" shouting.
I do fell better.
Last nite, attended an away football game with a friend to watch her daughter cheerlead. I am still on the fence to consider cheerleading a sport but anyway...we were completly lost in the swamps of Florida trying to find this school.
Candy's children still do not have enough free time/outside time. Way to rigid, IMHO.
In one of the more amusing misspellings of the day, Mountain Mama muses about getting rid of plastic dishes: "I thought I would have to replace what I got rid of, but I don't want to....the cupboards look sparse and well organized right now and I don't want to clutter them up. I did need more bowels, but instead I am using 4 little individual sized porcelain ramekins that I aleady had (but rarely used) for the boy's food....they are the perfect size and look very cute." (http://musings-of-a-mountain-mama.blogspot.com/
2008/11/happenings-and-renewal.html)
Wunderhubbee is at it again.
After the way the Left has been acting over the last 5 years in their lust for power;- Sabotaging George W. Bush, even to the point of releasing security secrets which put all of our lives in more danger.- Getting our brave soldiers killed by trumpeting every death, making our enemies think they might be able to win the war politically if they could manage to kill a few more. - Using Congress as a weapon against the president since they took over in 2006, which surprise surprise is when the economy started to go bad.- etc. etc.We have every justification to put "Impeach Obama" signs on our cars, but what good would it do?
So, there were no issues with the economy before 2006? Hmmm, I know a few million people who would disagree. But, apparently, those millions of people are missing some powerful secret that Erik himself has. More of those direct links to God, I would suppose.
As usual, his reasoning is so faulty it would break into a million pieces under intelligent discussion.
The "left" killing by trumpeting death...what the hell does that even mean? Who leaked secrets? Conspiracy theories usually originate in the minds of unbalanced individuals with no concept of reality; and we all know the Brauer's concept of reality is clouded. They alter reality just as they alter history.
What, exactly, are the justifications for impeaching Obama? Seriously, Erik, you say they exist...you have no argument if you cannot give evidence. Not to mention the fact that it is quite difficult to impeach a man who is not president. Obama said yesterday we have on government, one president, at a time and until January 20, 2009 he is NOT it. So, enlighten me Erik. How are you going to impeach him when he is not even in office?
My brain screams in pain every time I read that man's diatribes.
New post by Erik up.
Tia, since you were very much for Obama and underwent training to answer questions, I have a few that I would like your side's voice on.
Is it true that he wants to require women to register with selective service to give all Americans a sense of responsibility for the country, but claims he is not in favor of using the draft?
Is he in favor of the UNCRC? (United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child)
Steph, right now I'd rather turn my head inside out than read anything by Erik. I'm in a foul mood too, the last thing I need is that man's blathering swimming around my head. ~shudder~
Tracy, sorry about your foul mood. I have ingredients for mojitos but u live in like 7 states from me.
Yummy mojitos!!! Well, enough time on the computer, I have more carpets to shampoo. Does anyone know anything about dogs, specifically a dog with "submissive urination"? I have no idea how to stop my puppy from peeing every time she's excited or scared. She's 8 months old.
I wasn't trained to answer questions. In a group setting, we discussed what we knew, learned what others knew, and educated ourselves through that process. When we canvassed, we were in groups of 2 to 5, depending on who was comfortable discussing what. I was in a group of 3 more often than not, and never in a group smaller than that.
I do not have expertise in all areas of Obama's beliefs or values. I, like most, focused my energies on those issues that matter to me and impact me. I don't have children so really, UNCRC was never on my list of priorities for educating myself.
As for the draft, he is opposed to the draft. He is, however, supportive of women registering with the selective service, having said:
"There was a time when African-Americans weren't allowed to serve in combat," Mr. Obama said. "And yet, when they did, not only did they perform brilliantly, but what also happened is they helped to change America, and they helped to underscore that we're equal.
"And I think that if women are registered for service -- not necessarily in combat roles, and I don't agree with the draft -- I think it will help to send a message to my two daughters that they've got obligations to this great country as well as boys do."
That was found through a quick Google search. I knew his position but wanted a quote. The context of that statement was found here:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/
0...d=elections.xml
As I said when this came up in the past, you could probably do a Google search and get more specific information than I could provide. I can offer my opinion based on what I do know of other issues, but that's not what you're looking for. You are looking for me to tell you what Obama thinks or believes on those issues and I cannot do that. I did do a quick search of "obama on the uncrc" and all I got were panicked "what if's". In what little I've read, it is being made an issue of when there is no issue; it is speculation because Clinton was for it, and Congress said NO. So, I suppose the thinking behind that is "if one Democrat supported something, then all must, and look out, we're in trouble". That's my take on it, anyway, and I don't really have the time or desire to dig into it.
If it is an issue that is important to you, you could search just as easily as me, and use your judgment on the validity of the sources you read. I have not seen anything that quotes Obama's stance directly.
Thank you Tia for your time, and I'm sorry I misunderstood your statement on canvassing.
All I could get on the UNCRC was the same as you and honestly right now it all seems like paniced speculation. As with all things time will tell. Thanks for your input!
I think the majority of us here are pro-life, but I do think it's still worth discussing, and you guys have awesome points BTW. I think we need to keep ourselves very aware of the evil going on, and keeping quiet to avoid having this discussion (I don't consider it bickering) is not going to help us make any progress.
Gretchen- disagree with you about it being a religious issue. Whether you are religious or not, you have to make choices between good and evil. I'm quite confident that a non-religious person considers it wrong for a girl to give birth in a bathroom stall and throw her newborn baby in a garbage can to die. There is really no difference.
On early induction, I think it's completely different when the life of the mother is at stake and every measure is taken to save the baby too. However, I don't consider depression to be a life- threatening illness that makes a late-term abortion necessary.
Jessica- you make great points about the woman herself also being a victim. I have great compassion for women that have had abortions. Sooner or later, the reality of what they have done will catch up with them and torture their soul. I feel a lot of rage toward the abortion industry. Planned Parenthood is basically an abortion mill. They are not about parenthood at all, and their practices in counseling people in a crisis pregnancy situation completely sickens me.
highdesert- Humans have a soul. Animals do not. Also, animals do not have the sense to stop reproducing, so if they were never intentionally killed for food, it would basically be the end of the human race because there wouldn't be enough food for all of us. I do appreciate the scientist in you, but this point doesn't really fly, and it actually backs up the statement I made about killing puppies being just as bad or worse than kiling a human child. I have two words for people that think women must have this reproductive "right"- birth control. Now, I am not a user of birth control, but I would much rather have people using it than feeling a need to kill their own children.
I know, I know, people can get pregnant while on birth control- then women, educate yourselves about your bodies and know when your fertile time is if you are that opposed to creating a baby. A small price to pay to avoid scarring your soul.
Tracy, Milehi and Clare- awesome points on this. You are teaching me a lot.
Cran- I think you need to do your homework when it comes to being a Catholic and voting. The only time you can even consider a pro-abortion candidate is when both candidates are pro-abortion. It's not just one thing to take into consideration- it's a complete deal-breaker.
CM- feel better!
OK, this pro-lifer is off to grocery shop.
Tracy, as a soldier myself, I feel strongly that if men must register for the draft, so should women. There is no reason why not. People who piously mouth, "America is not ready to see their daughters coming home in body bags," need to wake up because guess what? They already are.
I am against the draft and any form of compulsive government service (Mr Obama is proposing 50 hours of mandatory community service for high schoolers, 100 for college students), but if males must do it, so should females.
I am a rape victim. My attacker raped me because I was less powerful than him in a given situation and he wanted to act on his perceived needs and feelings. If my attacker had impregnated me I don't see how me turning around and victimising the baby because of my perceived needs and feelings and because I had more "power" could ever have helped me. Carrying such a child would be a very, very hard thing, far harder than what I did go through, but it is something women go through every day somewhere in the world, and it is something one can survive, just as rape is. In the cold light of day, imagining, it sounds impossible to endure. But before I was raped I thought that would be a terrible thing to endure - actually of course it was awful but I am the one who came away stronger and he was the one who came away weaker. Making the moral choice is always better.
Someone who doesnt want...
I am so sorry for what you had to go through. I am also incredibly impressed by your strength and character. Your point of view definitely adds a lot to this discussion.
I do not believe in the draft at all for men or women, nobody should be forced into going to war against their own will. I do strongly disagree that women should be forced to, though. If Mr. Obama is so anxious to break down barriers that AA's onced faced, then make service open to all people, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, etc...and let it be voluntary. I am sure that you make a much better solider than me because you want to do it, I don't and honestly I would run for cover and safety to just get home in one piece before I'd throw myself into the line of fire. If I were drafted it would be a loss for all who had to serve with me, and I am positive that I am not the only one without the guts to do the job. Drafting is complete foolishness.
I don't mind the idea of community service projects, I think it would be a good thing to tack on to the mandated schooling. That would accomplish the goal of giving all people a sense of responsibility for the community and by and large, country and maybe it would do more to reduce the amount of crime we witness if folks took a bit more pride in their neighborhoods. Then again, I am all for service projects for my kids and plan to make it mandatory anyway so I am very biased there.
Anybody ever made a DNA model--not using candy because everybody does this...
Erik said in his rant: I hope that everybody did their part in praying for our country and the election, and that you took action for candidates which were standing for righteousness.
Now, I know a lot of us voted Republican here, but come on, do we really think we were voting for a candidate which was "standing for righteousness"? He makes it sound as if we were choosing between God's annointed and satan. In the end, they're still both politicians, and I expect both of them to break promises and do other such politician-y things.
What Luz said.
I'm opposed to the idea of a draft, or any mandatory government service, of any kind. However, if both selective service registration and mandatory government service are going to exist, having one "protected" group makes it even more wrong.
That makes me think of the Church Lady. I'm getting all verklempt.
Milehi- I think verklempt was a term used by a charachter played by Mike Myers...a Linda so and so who was a jewish middle aged lady with a huge hairdo and who did a TV talk show "I'm getting verklempt...tawk amongst yerselves"
Back when SNL was relatively clean.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On this whole abortion issue: I am very passionate about it. I think it's wrong in all circumstances and that there is a special level of Hell reserved for those who knowingly and purposely kill a human baby inside the womb, no matter what the stage of development.
BUT...I don't think it serves any purpose to hash it out here. We are quite a mix of people here- some of us are Christians/Catholics who were"victimized" as it were by Candy and came here for some form of therapeutic venting. Some of you are atheists, gnostics, new agers, or whatever, drawn here through other online avenues like websites designed to mock Christianity. Some are just curious spectators. Bottom line, this isn't a blog where we are all on the same page about really intense issues like politics and abortion- we all knew that from the get-go. So don't anyone be surprised when you share your opinion and another person fires back, ready to engage in 50 posts worth of debate. Just know that this isn't a likely avenue by which to change someone's fundamental feelings about something. I certainly hope some seed planting will happen in certain people's lives here, though.
Shannon
Just know that this isn't a likely avenue by which to change someone's fundamental feelings about something
If not here, where?
If not now,when?
I'm not sure that there IS a likely avenue by which to change someones fundamental feelings.
I don't even believe that is the sole objective.
There is something immeasurably valuable about the presence of a constant sign of contradiction, a small piece of grit in an otherwise comfortable shoe (or candys fuzzy slipper)
You are right that it's not a community of like minds alright. Thats what makes these conversations so invigorating.
I haven't got too much interest in discussing this topic up and down the yin yang with people who already agree with me.
As for your caution to not be surprised when you share your opinion and another person fires back, ready to engage in 50 posts worth of debate.
I'd be really disappointed if they didn't.
Besides, Candys is somewhat boring at the moment.
CM - I did for biology in HS. Used straws and modeling clay (it comes in 4 colors).
Shannon
PS. I thought the photos were lovely.
Was that a real mountain? For a moment I thought it was a studio backdrop.
I'd like a local mountain. have to make do with the Oxo tower.
Everyone here, I think, knows I'm not an Obama fan.
But this is just stupid.
We have every justification to put "Impeach Obama" signs on our cars
He has not even been inaugurated yet - how can we impeach a man who is not the president? Sometimes I wonder if E even knows how the government works.
And as an aside,
Remember that Jesus Christ is the word of God made flesh, so every word in God's word, the Bible, is Jesus Christ speaking
This is why I don't like Red Letter Bibles, even though Candy loves them.
Hey! Some TX priests posted on the Catholic view of the rapture. I know that's been a hot topic in the past so I thought I'd share:
http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/...lic-
church.html
Remember that Jesus Christ is the word of God made flesh, so every word in God's word, the Bible, is Jesus Christ speaking
I just reread this quote and realized it's illogical.
I don't like Red Letter Bibles because every word in the Bible is God's word.
Not sure why he put the whole qualifier about Christ being the Word (which SHOULD be capitalized, it's a title) of God.
That capitalization thing just gets to me. He doesn't capitalize "holy Spirit", even though that's a proper noun, but DOES capitalize random mid-sentence verbs.
I don't think he's trying to interest his readers. I think he doesn't know any better.
DNA model:
Legos. We've made ours with the flat pieces and the 1x1 cubes.
magnetix (in the kids' construction aisle in the toy department)
toothpicks and modeling clay
pom poms and pipecleaners
All of these manipulative items will work
Freshman High School Science, right?
I'm really a lurker, and I know I'm in the minority here, but I really need to speak up on the abortion issue. I do consider myself to be what a lot of you seem to think is impossible: I am pro-choice but anti-abortion. I think that killing a fetus is unconscionable, but I also believe that it is impossible to legislate this issue.
I am familiar with the pro-life statement that abortion is a sign that society has failed women. I agree. Telling a woman that her best chance at a successful life lies through murder is horrifying. However, I think it is equally horrifying to tell a woman that she must always see a pregnancy through.
Even if she was raped.
Even the person who raped her was her father.
Even if she is 14.
Even if her father will beat her when he finds out.
Even if the pregnancy may kill her.
Is that a worst case scenario? Of course, but when we are deciding how others live their lives, mustn't we always consider the worst case?
Otherwise, isn't the anti-abortion movement failing women, too?
Thank you all for the explanations. And thank you so much for your kindness with my situation. It was so hard to go through as we feel life begins at conception, so we lost our baby. But not forever. We do live with hope. We were blessed, in a very nice set of timing, with another child this year, from the same tube that our lost child was in. I love that.
Thank you for taking time to explain to me that view. When I read it I found it odd since he's very devout and also very pro-life (my two reasons for choosing him).
Even if she was raped...... ?
Even the person who raped her was her father..... ?
Even if she is 14. (Why is a child having sex? But there's always adoption and a lesson learned)
Even if her father will beat her when he finds out. (Being beaten vs. killing an innocent human being... I would choose a beating a thousand times over.)
Even if the pregnancy may kill her. (No one expects a women to die because she's pregnant- a pro-life stance protects all life. That one just doesn't hold water.)
I put question marks after the rape statements because I don't know quite where I stand on the morning after pill in these two instances. I completely admire the person who posted above who said she would not have aborted after having been raped. The reason I'm unsure is because in many of those cases, a pregnancy wouldn't have occurred. I know this may sound wishy-washy of me, but those two instances are something I don't feel quite comfortable passing judgement on. Also, I wouldn't even apply the words pro-choice to these situations because the girl/woman wasn't given a choice in being violated.
Shannon- if one person is reached through this discussion, then it sure is worth the time spent on the topic.
Have any of those here defending abortion or the availablility of it actually had one? Do you know what it is like? I had an abortion when I was 16, I got pregnant from my steady boyfriend and we were terrified at what his parents would do if they found out. My mother wasn't any better, she badgered me mercilessly until I caved. I wanted to have the baby, I knew it would be a complete mess, but with my mom on my side I figured we'd be ok. She told me she wouldn't lift a finger to help me with the baby, that I was "ruining my life" by keeping my baby and all of those wonderful things. My mom was an RN, she knew it was killing the baby. My boyfriend was so afraid of his parents that he felt it was easier to just "get rid of it" and forget it all ever happened. Eventually I agreed to go through with it.
You walk into the clinic, mine had no protestors, nobody praying, no offers of seeing someone at the CPC. Just silence. Inside it's quiet, stark and lonely. Eventually they call you back for the "counseling" and what a complete joke that is to call it counseling. They do nothing but care to get you to say yeah you want to abortion. I was coached on what to say when I went in. The girl in there never smiled, offered one ounce of comfort or offered me alternatives to the abortion. Nor did she ask me if I had looked into any alternatives, this late twenty something girl just sat there looking right through a 16 year old child. I was given the green light and went back to wait again. Eventually I went into the "procedure room", put on a gown and had the radio on. I laid down and had my feet in the stirrups, the nurse was beside me, stone cold and emotionless. I was given an ultrasound, I was not allowed to see the screen, just told that I was 4 weeks. I was not given the opportunity to see the life inside me lest I change my mind and they lose out on the 350.00 cash. I was then told to scoot down and open my legs and the doctor began to dialate me. It hurt. I was terrified and just stared at the ceiling, trying so hard to concentrate on the lyrics to the songs on the radio. I wanted to scream, cry, make them stop, but I just laid there. Eventually I was dialted enough and they started the machine. It was a vaccuum extraction. Just a few seconds of pain and fear and then that was it. My baby was in a biohazard trash bin and I was no longer pregnant. I was told to get up, put on a pad and go into recovery where I was given some antibiotics and a chair to sit in for a while. Then I left.
That day tore a large chunk of my soul out of me, and hurt me more than anything I could have imagined. I have put the scars of past wounds behind me but the fact that I went thorugh this, it follows me everywhere I go, everyday of my life I face the fact that I have a dead baby, not even given a proper burial, never having had a name, a chance to see the sun or smell a flower. Nothing but death. I hate my mother for pushing this on me and I hate the so
Has anyone seen ANOA's newest blog picture? Seriously, what's up with her hair lately?!
Too personal to say, I had an abortion when I was 17 and am still fiercely pro-choice. I'm sorry that your experience was so awful. For me, it was the best decision that I ever made and I feel zero regret. I'm sure that will get me flamed on here, but it's the truth.
It sounds like your abortion wasn't your choice In my opinion, that should never, ever happen. Part of being pro-choice is acknowledging that continuing the pregnancy *is* the best choice for some women.
Too personal, that's a very sad story. I'm sorry it happened to you that way.
And no I never had an abortion nor has anyone in my family.
(Angie, you said that people have souls and animals don't. That's your view from your religion. It isn't universal.)
(to Angie - should have said it isn't a universal view.)
Thanks for the tips with the DNA model.
I am sure I will get an A in my son's freshman honors biology....
No, he will do it--just have to drive him to get the supplies.
Too personal.
You poor darling. That is indeed a heavy load to carry. However, these wounds also carry the potential to keep our hearts tender, contrite and humble.
A beneficial condition in terms of our relationship with God. This is what I understand to be the 'treasures of darkness.'
God can redeem our worst mistakes and use them to draw us closer to Him.
Be at peace.
Even the person who raped her was her father..... ?
If the person who raped her was her father, then he's probably the one who is bringing her in to get an abortion so he won't get caught. Sometimes pregnancy is a red flag.
How about girls who are being preyed upon by older men? They also are often using abortion to cover up a crime. One pro-life organization called several Planned Parenthood help lines. The counselors, instead of encouraging the girl to talk to her parents or a trusted adult about the situation, suggested that they lie about the age of their "boyfriend" so that they wouldn't have to report it, and she could still get the abortion.
Rape is horrible, and traumatic. However, abortion is not a magic pill which will make it all go away. It is its own separate trauma. For some women, going through with the pregnancy, even if it will end in adoption, is a theraputic healing process. Often, she will feel that something good was able to come out of her trauma.
In the end, these sorts of cases only account for the smallest fraction of abortions.
I have a really good friend who had an abortion in college. 15 years later, finally, after much encouragement--she did get counseling through Project Rachel and made the sacrament of reconciliation through the Church. She came back to the Catholic church and just had her first baby at the age of 40.
I was in her wedding 4 years ago and it was the ugliest bridesmaid dress ever....
I had an abortion when I was 23. The circumstances are irrelevant because those who are opposed are not going to change their mind based on my story. That is not why I am telling you this anyway. My point is to say that 17 years ago, I made a choice. I was counseled in my options. What I chose to do was explained to me by numerous people in numerous ways to make it clear that I knew what I was choosing to do. I went to the clinic three times so that everyone was clear on every aspect of it. There was no coercion. No force. No mind games. No encouragement. And, it was Planned Parenthood.
It was not the worst experience of my life. I am not proud of it, but I don't regret it. I never have. For me, it was the only option. You may disagree, but you are not me and were not living my life.
I am still adamantly pro-choice. I am not waving flags saying "have an abortion, it's fun". I do not think it should be acceptable as a form of birth control. But, I do not think anyone has the right to take that option away from anyone else. None can judge anthers soul, circumstance, ability to adjust...nothing. And, I'm not even talking about rape and molestation and childhood pregnancy and all the other extremes.
Too Personal, yours doesn't sound like it was a choice. There is a difference. You were coerced into doing something you were not comfortable with. Your experience at the clinic was not the standard. It certainly wasn't mine. I was treated with compassion, trust in my own decision making abilities, and cared for for several hours afterwards as well as at least 3 follow ups in the next week that I remember.
I am not pro abortion. No one in their right mind could possible be "pro" abortion in the sense that they think everyone should just go have one and solve their problems. But, I will fight until I die for a woman's right to choose. Too Personal, you didn't choose. Because of that, I understand fully how traumatic the entire thing was for you.
I, on the other hand, made the choice. And, almost two decades later, I have not once regretted it and have never wished it had been different.
With that let me just say this - - I only "shared" this information because it was asked if anyone had ever had an abortion. And, Too Personal's experience was what too many think to be the norm.
I won't argue about my choice. I won't debate a decision I made almost 20 years ago. I won't defend the actions I took then or my continued belief in the choice. Aside from the obvious fact that what's done is done and no one can change it, I am fully aware of the fact that my choice is not anyone else's choice and I know the majority here are vehemently opposed to the choice I made and in fact, don't think I had a choice to make. You think I murded a human being; I know I
Anybody up for Meezing....my room
I hate haloscan - it posted before I was finished and I have no clue how. I must have hit something with the side of my wrist or something...I was in the midst of typing.
You think I murdered a human being. I do not believe that is what I did. And, I won't defend myself.
So, there you have it. I have had an abortion and beyond saying that Yes, I made that choice, and this was my experience, nothing more needs to be said.
My Meez room is not working these days.....anyway, I am here on this blog to communicate.
Wow. It's heavy in here.
I just came in to brag that my beloved-but-unranked football team kicked ass today and beat the previously undefeated #3 team in the nation!!!!
GW, ANOA said the new picture on her blog is to show how her bangs were actually behaving themselves that day. I think she mentioned it in her "Scary Amanda" post.
"If the person who raped her was her father, then he's probably the one who is bringing her in to get an abortion so he won't get caught. Sometimes pregnancy is a red flag."
So she should still be forced to go through with the pregnancy? So her father can get caught?
How is that compassionate?
And, yes, Luz, these types of situations do only account for the smallest fraction of abortions. But the same could be said of late term abortions, but that doesn't stop those cases from getting trotted out every time the issue is discussed.
And my point was that it is impossible to legislate abortion without considering that these women will be punished. Just like it is impossible to support the death penalty without dealing with the fact that innocent people may be killed. Laws are blunt instruments.
Okay, I've said my peace and been dismissed. Back to lurking.
Oh Kim, you must be an Iowa fan. My parents and 4 brothers are ISU graduates. But OK, I am happy for Iowa.
Tracy, where are you? Do you have a life tonite or what?
I am! Don't worry, CM. Some of my best friends are ISU grads.
I only hold them accountable 3 times a year. Football, basketball, wrestling ...
Kim, Is Dr. Max and Mambo still alive?
Kim, I answered my own question. They have both passed. I haven't thought about them in years until I read your blog.
Why do Americans say 'passed' instead of 'died'?
'Passed' sounds weirdly euphemistic to my ears.
Also most irreverently my mind silently adds 'wind'. I can't help it, and it kinda kills the mood.
I suppose it is euphemistic. Personally, passed or passed away is more comforting than died.
Tia
It feels somewhat frivolous and disrespectful to move the conversation on without some acknowledgment of your latest post.
I hear you. As you will have probably observed, I'm not abortion neutral. I have made a judgement that all abortion is objectively wrong. My judgement does not however extend to the women who have abortions, some of whom include very fine and honorable friends.
I respect your freedom in this matter and I make no judgement on you as a person beyond that which I have already made. I recognise that you are a person of conviction and honesty and I do admire that.
A question for the catholics. When priests announce a death from the pulpit do they say " Please pray for the soul of Mary O'Grady who passed yesterday" or do they use 'died'.
When I was at school and the teacher announced a test we would all add in unison 'icles'.
We were a right larf when we got over exited.
I do the same thing with 'passed' and 'wind'.
(Clare, nice of you to post that for Tia.)
Claire, your post to Tia was so eloquent. I wish I had your gift of words. Blessings to all.
Clare, thank you. I appreciate your words. With such differing views, it is refreshing that they don't get in the way of communication and respect. I respect everyone here, no matter how different we may be. In some ways, because of our many conversations, I'd go so far as to say that for me, it is because of the differing views, and how they are handled, that I have as much respect for everyone as I do.
My not wanting to discuss the comment though was not to suggest that anyone pretend I never said it. If I didn't want to ever discuss it at all, I wouldn't have said anything. I am not proud, but I'm not ashamed either, so discussion isn't a problem. What I meant is that I won't debate it; I won't debate whether it was right or wrong or allow myself to be in a position where I have to defend myself. It was a long time ago, and debating it now would do no one any good. And, I think on the moral scale, we all know where each other lies, so I won't debate or argue in circles about something that was done almost two decades ago, on something everyone's opinion of is already very clear.
I agree with CM, you are very eloquent and considering I make my living with the written word, I do find it embarrassing to say that I wish I had your talent for words, and could be so precise and honest and graceful when I write. You make me fear I am in the wrong profession. But, in a good way. You give me something to aim for.
Has anyone seen the latest Catholic Islam connection from Candy? I guess she couldn't live on comments from pancakes and schedules alone.
I can't get through the whole video. Is she serious with this!
Has anyone seen the latest Catholic Islam connection from Candy? I guess she couldn't live on comments from pancakes and schedules alone.
I can't get through the whole video. Is she serious with this!
A question for the catholics. When priests announce a death from the pulpit do they say " Please pray for the soul of Mary O'Grady who passed yesterday" or do they use 'died'.
**************
Mine does. And when we refer to someone who has already passed... we usually use the word "poor" in front of their name.
Like:
I remember poor Pappa use to love it when we all got together.
Granted, that is mostly the older generations, but I find myself saying out of habit of hearing it mostly.
I asked about using "poor" when I was young. It was explained to me that was the respectful way of talking about the dead.
Kinda like:
I remember Pappa, God rest his soul, use to love it when we got together.
Then again.. I'm in cajun country... so it may be a cajun thang. :)
ANOA vs candy
ANOA posted about buying some Flexi8's... OHOOO, don't you know, Candy could not stand it and had to put a comment. And it was all about HER and HER hair.. blah, blah. That woman is so self centered.. or just needing constant flattering/attention.
Then she goes and posts on her blog the one she bought.
Me thinks she is a lot jealous of ANOA beating her to the cute item!!
no, I have not had an abortion-but it not a situation that is unfamiliar to me-my oldest is turning 18-I just turned 34. Lets just say I didn't make it to my senior prom. It was not a fun way to spend my senior year, teenagers are cruel and girls are worse than guys. I spent a lot of time very poor and very scared. my parents moved me out as soon as I graduated at 17. It leaves me with a lot of empathy for other women who find themselves very utterly alone in a very lonely situation.
excuse me, it should read I justturned 35.
Whoa, my comment attached to Erik's rant GOT PUBLISHED. One guess who I am....
I just wanted to throw in my $0.02 regarding abortion. I'm pro-life so I'll just leave that whole argument alone... but I wanted to talk about exceptions when the life of the mother is in danger. Generally speaking this has never been an issue, even to those who are pro-life, as it is preferable to have one death rather than two (I'm simplifying that argument for the sake of... simplicity). However, instances where the mother's life IS actually in danger are so incredibly rare. And medical care and technology today make it possible to maintain a pregnancy as long as possible in order to spare both mother AND child.
As an example, gretchen mentioned a friend's mother who had a tumor growing in her uterus while pregnant, which put her life at risk. I had the exact same thing happen when I was pregnant with my son (who is now a healthy almost-6). I had a non-cancerous fibroid tumor growing that ended up being the size of a cantaloupe. I looked like I was having twins. The danger to the baby was that if it looked like the fibroid was taking more of the nutrients, and baby stopped growing, they would have to deliver the baby early. The danger to me was uterine rupture (bad news for everyone), although not really likely. I was put on partial bed rest and had to go for tons of level 2 ultrasounds. I ended up with a c-section at 37 weeks.
I thank God every day for my little boy... and the two miracle daughters I had after him! I now have 3 small fibroids that I know will grow with my next pregnancy, but I know that with God's hand on me, and excellent medical care, I (and potential baby) should be just fine.
Just pointing out that what used to be life-threatening, isn't so much anymore in some cases.
Thank God for that, or I (and my children) would not be here now! :)
So she should still be forced to go through with the pregnancy? So her father can get caught?
How is that compassionate?
I was pointing out that the "abortion in the case of incest" situation is rarely as cut and dry as it seems. Most of these men are very smart, and know how not to get caught. Forced serial abortions prevent people from asking questions, and in that case, there is nothing compassionate about abortion, either.
I don't pretend to have an easy answer for any of these difficult questions. As I said, I was pointing out that abortion is usually not the magic solution that many feel it is. It often comes with its own set of difficulties.
"As I said, I was pointing out that abortion is usually not the magic solution that many feel it is. It often comes with its own set of difficulties."
So true.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and tell you all why I'm so passionate about this subject. I, too, had an abortion when I was 18. My parents had always taught me that abortion was wrong, I was at college for a month, and found out I was pregnant by my very possessive boyfriend who had followed me to college. I was so heartbroken because my parents were so proud of me, and I was so afraid that I would disgrace my family. I was also afraid of being connected to this boyfriend that I had tried to break up with a couple months previous to this happening. (And why did I have sex with him? Because I was drunk and stupid, that's why.) I basically entered into an emotional fog before, during and after the abortion. I wasn't myself and didn't acknowledge what I was doing. My experience was much like Too Personal's- no counseling that had any meaning, I don't even remember an ultrasound, and I was put under for the procedure because I knew I couldn't handle what was too come.
I blocked this whole experience out for about 15 years, but once I had my own family and looked into my children's faces each day, the pain overtook me. I have been to confession about this (twice- once for the sin itself and once because I wasn't believing that God could ever forgive me), and I have talked and cried with close friends. My family still does not know, and I don't want them to know because I'd rather they be protected from the pain that it would cause. I just know my mom would blame herself for me not coming to her, but it wasn't her fault. I had terrible, terrible judgement. I so wish I could have been a stronger person, like you Gretchen. I believe I am forgiven, but I still hurt so much over it. I am working on building up some self-worth, but some days it is really hard. The information that is available about the realities of abortion makes me really emotional, and I feel really strongly that I have to speak out. I know that pro-life volunteer work is in my future. For the longest time, i didn't think that I had the right to be pro-life- that I would be a hypocrite, but I don't feel that way anymore. I know some of you may see me as a hyprocrite for the things I have said in this discussion, but I do mean them and hope you can understand where I'm coming from.
Tia- I totally respect how you feel, and I suspect that if I could approach it that way for myself, I wouldn't go through these periods of self-loathing. I just want you to know that if your feelings change someday down the road, like if you have children and that brings feelings you didn't have before, it is perfectly ok. I appreciate your honesty.
I can't believe I am going to publish this in my real name, but here goes.
Rachel, I followed the link Candy posted to the Flexi-8 site. The extra large size costs around $20! I would not refer to myself as poor (like Candy has referred to herself), however, I can't imagine spending that much on a hair accessory. That is not a blanket statement that nobody should choose to spend their money however they choose, of course, but in Candy's case, it just seems very wasteful.
Angie, I am so sorry for the pain that you have been through. I wish I had the words to offer some comfort. Please know that you will be in my prayers. God bless.
Anyone wonder why Candy can't feed her children decent meals? She just bought another bible - - how many bible's does one person need? Seriously. That's not even a rhetorical question. Especially when your budget is so limited, why would you even consider another bible?
And, $20 for a hair clip? I have never stated our financial situation, but Candy has stated hers in many ways at many times and by comparison ours is far better and more stable than hers. I don't generally have to choose between things I purchase. We are by no means financially wealthy but we are more than comfortable. And, I wouldn't even consider spending that much money on a clip for my hair. Ever. For any reason.
Between her gazillion bible purchases, $20 hair clips, and Erik's invention purchases, does anyone wonder why cheap canned salmon is such a large part of their diet?
Angie, I didn't mean to ignore you. I didn't want this to get lost in another topic.
I understand how you feel. I understand what you went through. The thing I can say that is different - well, the most obvious thing to me when I read your story - is that I wasn't taught that it was morally wrong; I wasn't taught that abortion was a sin. I didn't grow up in a religious household. I grew up with a single mother and a divorced grandmother, both of whom were determined that my sister and I not ever go through the horrors they did. And, that is not to suggest they thought their prenancies & children were horrors; they were more concerned with our relationships with men. While neither of them know of my choice, it is only because I was estranged from my mom at the time and my grandmother was ill and I didn't want to worry her. My mother and I eventually reconciled, but she's always suffered from extreme guilt over our estrangement and for her, she has chosen to pretend that time in our lives never happened. Who I am to push that, especially with something so personal? She is my mom and I love her, but we don't exactly talk about the past. My sister, aunt & uncle and friends at the time knew of the entire scenario and my sister was with me the entire way. I had a very good support system,
If, at any time in the future, my emotions shift on the subject, I am prepared to deal with that. But, I have to be honest here and say I doubt that will ever happen. I won't ever have kids - not because the abortion did anything in that regard to prevent that; it's just a fact of our life that has also been dealt with.
I get where you're coming from, entirely. And, I 'm sorry it was so hard on you. I can't imagine, honestly, not having been confident in my choice. I have peace with it, but I know not everyone does and I know there are some, like you, who have suffered because of it.
Who knows if she actually purchased a hairclip or not. She may just be playing keeping up with amanda.
Bibles aren't exactly cheap either.
Of course with her newly energized marketing on her hmb maybe she is raking in some newfound dough.
Her last dresses she purchased were what-like 2.00 each-she hits the clearance racks for clothes but then spends $20 on a hair clip. it is a little odd.
I have long-very thick hair too just like what she gushes on about on ANOA"S site and I am guessing she will be very disappointed when this is not going to be a good product for her. I have yet to find a hair clip that works with my hair I resort to home made hair wraps usually. my hair is coarse and thick-native american hair though so maybe that is the difference. It is not beautiful wavy gorgeous hair like hers.
and again I am not the same gretchen that leaves comments on her site about praying for Obama or whatever.
New Meez up...what's with the knee-length skirt?
ok- i checked out the flexi8 site. They are cool hair thingies. I can see where it would be less damaging than my constant use of ponytail holders. However, all I had to do was take out the pony tail holder twist it into and 8 and run an inkpen through to hold it and basically there you have it. I am sure you could make these in your home for personal use for less than $1 if you can live with using something other than their "stay in place" locking pin. So now you know what I'll be doing the rest of the day :)
update on my pnytail holder experiment-if you use a slightly flexible plastic childrens paintbrush it works better than an inkpen-haha.
IMHO, I think Candy's money would be better spent on a good trim from the Hair Cuttery.
Is it possible to sleep 47 hours in a 24 hour day? I think I just did.
An Aldi's store recently opened up near me. I am on my way there. My excitement is quite pathetic.
I love Aldi's ! We had two, but lost the big one in the flood.
The remaining one is closer to my house, anyway.
Gretchen, try a chopstick. Works for all those Chinese ladies...
Not a good experience at Aldi's--they do not take credit cards and I had no idea how much $$ we had in checking for debit card...and I had to go back to the van to get a quarter so I just went to JoAnn Fabrics instead but they did not have milk. Argggggggg!
Steph--and the waving? and the heels? Don't women of the night wear heels? It would probaly be better to wear ugly boots, or perhaps silppers...
aldi here is the same way-no credit cards.
I have chop sticks here somewhere-right nowI am sporting a blue paintbrush. The figure 8 does hold my hair pretty well though. Its much cuter than my regular ponytail too-except for the whole paintbrush thing maybe-I have like 100 of these little brushes though.
Please pray for the soul of Mary O'Grady who passed yesterday" or do they use 'died'.
The phrase I recall hearing from priests is "entered into eternal rest".
Goody has a new barrette out that works, and I have a coupon linked on my blog:
http://milehimama.blogspot.com/2...-works-
for.html
That picture is not of the nifty barrette, BTW.
You know what's really silly about her "Catholic Muslim" connection (didn't watch the vid)?
The Pope JUST wrapped up a conference on Catholic-Muslim relations and is considering creating a position dedicated solely to that subject. THAT would actually be relevant, and newsworthy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commen...me-muslim-
forum
Interesting that Candy loves the Trinitarian Bible Society Bible in light of the Society's scathing article about Scofield and his reference bible. Which Candy also loves loves loves.
http://www.trinitarianbiblesocie...es/
scofield.pdf
About the passed away/died thing, I think it may be cultural and geographical.
Something else I noticed: women always say someone "had a baby" and men almost always say "she gave birth".
Since I'm the only one commenting right now, I can talk about whatever I want! In light of earlier discussions, here is an interesting discussion of Roe v Wade, Dred Scott, and whether abortion regulation is secular or religious:
http://cathmedweek.blogspot.com/...g-
abortion.html
Tia- I appreciate your understanding and compassionate words. Thank you. Jessica, thank you as well. I need all the prayers I can get. :)
I haven't checked Candy's site this weekend- new bibles and hairclips, huh? Why, when she goes on and on about how she has found the most superior bible, would she find the need to purchase yet another? Maybe she feels that the woman who dies with the most bibles wins that higher place in heaven? (But that would mean she thought she could buy her way in. Hmmm)
I won't begrudge her a spendy hairclip. For the amount she will be wearing it, it could be well worth the extra money spent.
Great article, milehi. I tend to approach the subject with my emotions, and that is a very common sense argument that would speak to people that hold information presented in a more no-nonsense, logical fashion with higher regard.
(If you choose to consider a single cell the legal equivalent of a an adult person based on its DNA, perhaps we could also extend the definition of humanness to chimps and other apes on the basis of their similar DNA?. And how about dogs, since they are conscious, aware, thinking, feeling, emotional beings? There are other places where a line could be drawn.)
Honestly, highdesert that is about the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. A human being is a human being, one cell at the moment or not. If left alone to live a child forms in the mother's body. A primitive life form is not something that transforms into something as complex and intricate as a human being in just a short few months. I do not see how you can compare a human being to a chimp or puppy, or equate being pro-life to being a vegetarian and not eating meats based on the fact that animals have to die. Maybe I have not understood your past few posts correctly, but it sounds to me like you are trying to argue that being pro-life means that we have to accept not killing anything alive, have free roaming cattle and just compared the value and worth of a person to that of a chimp or dog based on the fact that there are *similarities* between us. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
I'm definitely not saying that being pro-life means you have to be a vegetarian etc.
But there are people who do feel about animals just as strongly as you feel about the single human cell. So maybe if you think about how they feel, and what conditions they might want to make legal and what your reaction to that is, maybe you could understand how some of us react to your opinion about how a single cell or the early stages of human embryonic development should be valued.
I can't, just can't, give the kind of value to a fertilized egg that you do. Yes it would turn into a baby in nine months, but it is not a baby. It is what it is.
Sorry, I'm not feeling like I'm writing very clearly at the moment.
I fear him - he's an arab!
Joe | 11.09.08 - 11:51 am | #
Crap from ignorant fools at Candy's site. These are the people who should be feared. People who are so prejudice and hate filled they see nothing beyond their own ignorance.
Racism, bigotry and prejudice are all the problems of those who hold to such beliefs.
Joe, the fact that you're a Candyhead explains a lot, but really, get your head out of your rear end and open your eyes and your mind.
Whatever color/race/gender you are...you do not speak well for those of your "kind"; if all of your "kind" were like you, I'd fear all too.
Fortunately, we live in a world with smarter, more intelligent people than you.
Candy allows this kind of ignorant, racist garbage in her comments, but she won't allow an opposing viewpoint.
Kind of tells you what Candy thinks of those who are different than her; as was the case in the past, she is allowing comments through in order to let her minions speak what she doesn't have the guts to say.
She is a hate filled, ignorant, arrogant, foolish bigot. End of story.
highdesert,
I guess we will have to "agree to disagree". I believe that a living human being should never be killed.
Joe???
Yes, I can see how her site would attract a lot of men...who haven't commented before and have no homepage... and have the same name as very close family members...
Surely with her censoring, she doesn't STILL have to make up comments?
Milehimama, yes we'll have to agree to disagree.
I know, Milehi; I don't think "Joe" is a real person either. My tirade was directed at Candy for when she doesn't read here. Ahem. Cough. Choke.
She either made him up or someone else did to mock her, and she just didn't catch it in her excitement that someone agreed with her hatred and bigotry.
But, real or not, the hate that is displayed in six words is astounding. And, very telling.
Like I said, she lets others say the words she doesn't have the guts to say herself. Especially now, since she has stated outright that she censors comments. She censored it, approved it, and let it through. That not only says she agrees, it says how much of a coward she is to not even take responsibility for her own position.
Typical. Oh, so very typical.
highdesert, I see where you are coming from and I get what you're saying.
To me C's Flex hair thingy looks kind of showy. Doesn't C frown on that? I mean, she would be drawing attention to her hair. Unwanted attention from men!
Methinks C has a Bible fetish.
About the passed away/died thing, I think it may be cultural and geographical.
Something else I noticed: women always say someone "had a baby" and men almost always say "she gave birth".
Milehimama | Homepage | 11.09.08 - 4:40 pm | #
speaking of cultural differences, how do you term someone becoming pregnant? Over here we say "so and so fell pregnant". My American husband thinks this is hilarious and still makes jokes about it. He says "so and so got pregnant".
"Candy allows this kind of ignorant, racist garbage in her comments, but she won't allow an opposing viewpoint."
I agree whole-heartedly. I voted for McCain, but I am happy that our country has made enough progress to elect a black president.
highdesert- you give the impression that those of us that are pro-life are animal haters. We have a dog, and she is part of our family. Yes, I believe she has feelings- she shows me that all the time, and she's smart as a whip. However, if I was told I had to choose between my dog and any of my children or my husband, I wouldn't choose my dog. Sorry. I do love animals, but I love humans more. :)
highdesert, let me see if I am at all grasping your pov ok? You're saying that while I see a human life in each stage of human development you see it only as what it is at each stage, for example, a clump of cells without a heartbeat is nothing more than a clump of cells no different than an inanimate object, having no value in and of itself. I will not even ask about when you do believe it is a human life because we really don't need to open another can of worms. I would simply like to come away from the discussion with *some* idea of what you mean.
****************************************
Joe, sounds like an alter ego of Candy to me. Wht man in his right mind would care to read her blog for goodness sake? Then again, maybe he looks at her as some sort of source of Biblical information. That scares me.
I admit, I have my own fears and worries over what will occur when Obama (what is the proper term for him right now? Pres. Elect, Senator, Mr. what is correct?) takes office, but nothing has to do with him being "an arab" - that sounds like typical Candy reasoning. Don't fear the man for the decisions he may make, or the positions he holds or based on anything he has previously said or done, just base it on him being "an arab"
My eyes hurt from rolling them now.
In TX, people seem to "turn up pregnant".
That hair clip does come dangerously close to "broided hair". Wasn't Candy's def of Broided that it contained jewels, etc., not that is was "plaited"?
Hey, at least he got the article correct - AN Arab, not A Arab. Even if the proper noun punctuation was missing.
We say "passed away" when we want to be very sensitive to others, sometimes when we talk about someone else of the Christian faith who has died we will say that "so and so had his/her homegoing" (went home to heaven)
For pregnancy we say "got pregnant" or "had a baby"
Yes, I am passing on yet ANOTHER article. Apparently I don't have an original thought in my head this weekend.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/ful...&
pagewanted=all
Goodness. Busy day. Mass, visitors from Colombia, visit from mother, house in uproar owing to building work ( always building in the winter grr)
I've been following the comments but haven't been able to jump in until now.
Firstly, CM and Tia. Why thank you! *courtly bow* Sadly my wordsmithery represents the pinnacle of my gifts. It's all downhill from there.
When my husband wants a cheap laugh he challenges me with a 'simple' equation.
Numbers greater than 10 bring me out in a sweat.
I also wanted to address this point of Crans ( sorry Cran, nothing personal!)
Many moral theologians today think that this is a bit paradox: The baby is killed anyway, and saying that removing the uterus, too, so that future pregnancies become impossible is more natural, is a bit strange, too, as the death of the child and future pregnancies have no logical, direct connection
An ectopic pregnancy is one where the fertilized ovum implants OUTSIDE the womb.
I can't think of a situation where removal of the womb would therefore be required to remedy it.
An ectopic pregnancy usually occurs in the fallopian tube and therefore the surgical option would require removal of that portion of the tube.
Certainly, being left with only one fallopian tube may have some negative effect on the womans subsequent fertility,but by no means would it render 'future pregnancies impossible'.
Dora, we say 'fell pregnant' too.
'Passed away' I get, but 'passed' just sounds twee. It sounds like an attempt to take the negative association of death away from, well, 'death'.
Also it has a ring of the new age, crystal waving, dream catching, angels on my shoulder, medium who refers to people 'passing over to the other side'.
Am I being culturally insensitive?
The Irish are pretty robust about death.
When my uncle Tony died he was brought back to the house and given a proper wake. My dad and his brothers and sisters took turns to keep vigil with the body. Lots of praying the rosary and a fair bit of eating and drinking with the odd shot of whiskey here and there.
His children were still fairly young and the house was full of neighbours children barrelling in and out as though it was the most unremarkable thing in the world to have a dead body laid out in the dining room.
So hospitable were they to the notion of death that after the funeral I was given the bed Uncle Tony had been laid out in. I was assured the sheets had been changed.
'Passed away' I get, but 'passed' just sounds twee. It sounds like an attempt to take the negative association of death away from, well, 'death'.
Also it has a ring of the new age, crystal waving, dream catching, angels on my shoulder, medium who refers to people 'passing over to the other side'.
Am I being culturally insensitive?
I don't think so, because I'm American and I feel the same way about people who say so and so passed without including an away or an on after it.
Maybe it just hasn't caught on in my neck of the backwoods (remember, no Starbucks!) and in a few years, I'll be used to it.
I usually say died, but might say passed away.
I just checked out Candy's site and noticed she has some more anti-Catholic videos for our viewing enjoyment. I guess she can only post recipes and home management advice for so long, and then she gets a hankering for a good ol' Catholic slam. Do any of you know a person (other than some of the anti-Catholic public figures) that have an incessant need to smear the name of the Catholic Church? At first it offended and saddened me, but now it's kind of fascinating. You have to wonder why....
I would love to do a sociology research paper on her behavior---medical sociology. I asked her once and she "banned me" from her site and called me pretentious and thought I was "vial" by showing off my education.
Clare I think we have inherited a lot of our speech from you brits which is why we our language has so much in common. We also say died but there are still some who choose to use passed away.
Angie I totally don't think that people who are pro-life are animal haters. What you said about your dog and your family is the way I feel about my dog and my family.
We have three dogs and a cat, all of them are family, I call Abbie my "fur baby" LOL
I do agree that animals need to be treated more humanely as creatures of God that have feelings and awareness. Unlike plants that just are and don't have any awareness or feelings KWIM? The way food animals are treated in some cases (in many actually) is just heartbreaking.
Tracy, at the stage that would be affected by the morning after pill, the embryo is a clump of cells running a genetic program. In my view its value as a human develops as it develops (in particular as its brain develops). If it is going to develop into a healthy baby, it needs to be in a nurturing safe environment especially during the early stage. But if it dies at that early stage, in my view it is not the loss of a human being but the loss of a clump of cells. (Except of course to the mother who wants it.)
I hope that makes sense because I'd rather move on from the topic, partly because it's so loaded and partly because I haven't been clear enough in my examples and it's getting to be a headache. (However I don't want to be a coward either.)
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me, highdesert. I hope that I have grasped a sense of where you are coming from.
Now, let's do get back to Candy and all her wonderful wackiness. Let the hijinks ensue!
"Wht man in his right mind would care to read her blog for goodness sake?"
Don't forget that the old CIALFP blog was started by a man [Hi, Matthew, hope you are doing okay]. I think it's entirely possible that "Joe" was mocking Candy and she didn't realize it.
So, Joe the plumber visited candy's site hahahaha. thought I would make a little joke to start out the day.
Now that Candy has decided to wear jewels in her hair in the broidered fashion maybe she will see that it will not cause her to fall from grace or whatever it is her fear is.
Here in the south they use that endearing term "knocked up".
by the way-sometimes my gravatar is on sometimes it is not-it depends on which computer I use. Just so you know that both gretchens here are me. Also, it seems that your gravatar stays on if you are signed in to your email account even if you are trying to post anonymously somewhere-you have to sign out of your email to make your gravatar go away. Just so you know in case you want to go undercover somewhere.
I wasn't part of the other blog, thanks for the reminder.
I'm sure many of you have already heard of this blog (it's my new favorite and I've been pouring through the archives), but it's http://conversiondiary.com.
The author was an intellectual atheist who converted to Catholicism. The reason I bring it up is because she has an interesting article about how she used to be a "pro life vegetarian." It's an intereting perspective on being pro-life. Anyway, if you're intereted, it's here:
http://www.conversiondiary.com/
2...vegetarian.html
-Jacqueline
Jaqueline--That is a very interesting and well written article.
Since some of you here have experienced teen pg and now support prolife views-I would like to just put out there this request.
The next time you see a pg teenage girl smile at her.Ask her how her pg is going, what she having or whatever you would normally ask any other expecting mom. She is making the best of an irresponsible decison to have sex. When that choice sat there in front of her she chose to put herself in the position of mockery and derision. IF she had gone through with an abortion she may have lived with a silent pain-or not-she may have just gone on about her teenage life enver looking back. she would not have had the entire world judging her as she walked around with her own version of the scarlet letter growing in her belly. When my parents wanted my to abort-the lady at the clinic helped me out-as soon as I got her alone I told her i was not having an abortion. she gave me info on agape house and other places I could call if my parents threw me out. When I did get thrown out with my baby-a mormon family took me in. Mcdonalds was able to look past my status as a teen mom and hire me. Most of the world treated me like a whore. I had women say nasty things to me in public and give me dirty looks when I was walking around with my baby. Lucky for me I was used to being treated like crap and most of it just rolled off-but I can tell you now that when I see a pg teenager I make eye contact and smile at her. I want to hug her and tell her it all turned out ok for me. I still grew up got married and have a house the baby grew up and its all ok now. That, in my opinion is the BEST way to support your prochoice views. Please don't be one of those hypocrits that support prochoice at the same time you curse the girls who live that choice out. In the end supporting an opinion is much easier than living it. I support choice--but for me myself-I choose life. Actions are the key to who you are-not what bumper sticker you slap on your car.
New post up. It's prior to 200+ comments, but better early than too late.
Very, very well said Gretchen!!
Gretchen- I absolutely agree with you. For a long time I've been considering opening our home to a pregnant teen once our kids are grown. I do support pregnant teens whole-heartedly.
Commenting by HaloScan
