Good morning.
I am totally not confinced that the 'leaked documents' are true or false. This story is completely differend to the story told around the 22nd of july.
Some people want to hit the police, as they hate the coppers. They grab this now to blindly hit out to the ones who trying to protect us from any new bombings.
The suspention of the person who leaked the information can be seen in three differend ways. 1) He/she leaked true information while investigation was still underway, 2) He/she leaked false documents to the press because the person feels some kind of love towards Brasilians or 3) He/she abused his/her position at the police to use official papers but making false documents (fraud) to support the Brasilians.
I still want to wait with my final opinion until the OFFICIAL document will be released. The picture shows he was wearing a thinner jacket than firstly discribed, but no where I can ready what happen inside of the station besides of him 'picking up a METRO newspaper'. I mean, did the police ask him to stop and did he refused? Did he had something extra with him i.e. a bag? The pressure was extremely high, and no risks could have been taken. But again, I will judge when I see official documents as these leaked ones could be 90% false.
Kind regards
Dmitri
ps. There is no way Sir Ian Blair may ever resign from his position if the documents seems to be correct. He tries to protect the city and because of a 'out-of-control' Brasilian family he should resign? That family needs to be deportated to Brasil due of unrealistic behavior. Fighting for there rights, ok, but like most brasilians they think they are god
Hmmm, I think you're being a bit unfair on the Brazilians here, plus Jean Charles' family already live in Brazil so I don't really understand your point about deportation.
True, a too hard comment. What I wanted to point out (that was more my meaning) that the family is of course begin hard towards the police as there relative got killed. But, they are so extreme fanatical (what I also can understand, true) to get Sir Ian Blair resgined I am getting a bit sick of it.
A time of war there are always innocent people who die. The police want to make sure no suicide bomber could ever get into a tube ever again and made a choise about Mr Jean. If it was completely false and unfair they need to be punished, but with all the pressure from the family the investigation can go easely go wrong...
ps. I really thought they were living in the UK and being radical can lead to deportation.
No worries Dmitri and I appreciate you coming back to clarify your point.
I dunno Dmitri. You say you want to wait for the official report, but you decided to condemn the family beforehand. You then go on to slander Brazilians. Maybe I could make some remarks about your (presumably Greek or East European) nationality.
It wasn't the police who leaked the document, it's thought to be an employee of the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission). If they hand't leaked the information, would we now know that most of what was said about the incident was bollocks?
The police perhaps didn't lie directly to the newspapers, but they certainly allowed false information about the case to propogate, Sir Ian Blair made false statements and they also tried to prevent the IPCC from carrying out thier investigation.
The British police have got a bit of a habit of shooting innocent people. When you consider how few criminals they shoot, the innocent total seems almost unacceptably high.
Hi Jon. Justice.
First of all, I am a Dutch person, but I live in England as I love the country. My name is Russian (but I haven't got any Russion blood), but Dimitri is Greek, so you were close coming to my name!
About this sad case now. I just simply feel that there is something fishy about this all. Not only about the shooting itself, but also the news around it at this moment. I've read at some news page that this is the 5th official wrong person that has been shot by police. Probably the real figures are higher. The Menezes relatives are very angry (of course) but they are also talking too temperamentfully, they are fully in the attack. I will try to explain that. Brazilians always say "we are Brazilians and we're the best", ok, this makes them probably very strong mentally. But because of this form of arrogance (it is in one way) they can become blinded. They told the press one day after the shooting "we are Brazilians and we are not going to sit down and do nothing". Can you see my point a bit? I want justice to be done, no doubt about that. But at this stage we can not judge, but we are being pressured about "Sir Ian Blair must resign". But at this stage: for what? The investigation is still on. If Sir Blair indeed lied about this case than there is no other option than to leave.
I still can remember the thing that Mr Menezes was here illigal and maybe his family want that to be forgetten. But was he really illigal... I can not judge now during the investigation.
Many people were/are hit by the bombings. Every person deserves protection. It is sad to see that muslims are being attacked just because they are muslims as an example. No person deserves to be scared.
Ok, I better stop my story now lol.
Take care,
Dmitri
It's a strange contrast between the treatment of the leaker (suspended from work) to the treatment of the assassin (distinctly not suspended; given an expenses paid holiday though). It would make you think that exposing the truth is a worse crime than killing an innocent man.
Yes Ian, Sad times 
Dmitri makes some valid points. The family are going way over the top simply because they have someone to blame who is one of the "good guys" and they are likely to achieve a result. The family of the 52 victims of the terrorists don't have that luxury. The terrorist's victims seem to be becoming the "forgotten" victims simply because they were killed by the "bad guys" who don't give a toss about any grief and suffering they cause. The press are focussing too much on the one death. ITN news in particular seem to be particularly gleeful that the Mr de Menezes was shot by mistake.
It also seems strange that in Brazil, Mr de Menezes death was mourned by thousands simply because his death was so public. Scenes reminiscent of Liverpool after the death of Ken Bigley. How many people actually knew this bloke?
Also, Ian's comments above are (as usual) totally ridiculous. Mr de Menezes was not assassinated. An enquiry may (or may not) find that he was unlawfully killed but no right thinking person can seriously believe that his death was assassination.
Assassin: One who murders by surprise attack.
http://dictionary.reference.com/...arch?
q=assassin
Murder : The unlawful killing of one human by another.
(the same source)
Assassin: a killer, especially of a political or religious leader. (OED definition 1)
Assassinate: to kill for religious or political motives. (OED)
Interestingly, assassin is (historically) also "any of a group of Muslim fanatics sent on murder missions at the time of the Crusades"
[from the Arabic for hashish eater].
(deinition 2 from OED)
IanD - I don't think it's a case of the press focussing too much on de Menezes and not on the other 52 victims - it's just the general nature of the news. Rightly or wrongly it focusses more on current events.
The 3 minutes silence and Trafalgar square vigil for London's victims were obviously very well reported and given stacks of coverage at the time.
Also thousands of us "mourned" the victims and we didn't personally know them.
The general grieving for the 52 victims of the attacks was very "British" for want of a better word. Perhaps the Brazilians just have a culturally different way of grieving.
There are always going to be people who very publically and vocally "mourn" victims and the people who make the most noise usually get the most column inches in the press.
there was a good report in the guardian the day after the shooting (sorry, don't have link to hand), it listed the various contradictory eye-witness statements and showed how little was *really* know. it's worth looking out, if you can find it.
following the ipcc leak, those eye-witness statements *are* making more sense though - the man vaulting the barrier was police, not de menezes. possibly the same for the coat and the scared rabbit-looking man entering the carriage.
given the contradictory nature of the eye-witness statements, which was clear on the day of the shooting, those who rushed to judgement are clearly shown to have been at fault. more than the errors of the london police, i think the media (and that includes new media) have a lot of questions to answer and much sould-searching to do.
I'm so glad we've managed to move away from the rights and wrongs of killing innocent brazillians, and onto a syntactical argument about the variation between of assassinations / killings / summary executions without trials.
Fair points IP
Although the media haven't actually killed anyone!
We can better simply wait for the official documents to be released as who says the leaked documents were correct ones. And to igve a small reaction on IanD, indeed: how are the families doing of the 52 died at the 7th july bombings? And how is it with the anti-terrorism war? Maybe, a small thought of mine, police is glad with the Brazilian sage as now they can continue there terrorist-hunting without any press noticing it. Not only the press, but also the terrorists could think they are not being hunt anymore.
Dmitri either you are under 14 or you are seriously shallow when it comes to issues of terrorism...'in times of war people die'...'terrorists could think they are not being hunt anymore because the press is not reporting on them'?....Just plain idiotic..
So here we are in May 2007, and no police involved in the de Menezes shooting (make that state sponsored murder) are to be punished. Why am I not surprised? The politicians will need police protection in the event of civil uprising (not as far-fetched as it was in 2005), so the police need to be kept on side. Obvious really. But as for justice... you're having a laugh aren't you?
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