So let's have your comments then!
Looking at the comments from the past post, I can't decide are the RMT Scrooges or Stooges?
Absolute greedy selfish commie bastards. The train drivers get 30k+salary AND a 35 hour week. Now they want to ruin New Years eve?
They may go on strike, there rights, but to be honest...... on the night of 31st of ddec/1st jan? Selfish
Note that this is actually a *station staff* dispute -- the drivers' weren't polled, so they aren't involved in the action.
I think you'll find Matt, that the facts are largely irrelevant when it comes to a story.
I believe station staff are paid much less than drivers, possibly below £20K.
Actually station staff get paid a bit over £20K, (look at the careers section on the Tube's website) although in this instance they are not striking over pay but over cuts, so pay is irrelevant.
The RMT are really losing the plot this time "The RMT fears LU plans, which include closing ticket offices, could lead to job losses and compromise safety."
How can staff being moved from ticket offices to more visible areas around the station compromise safety?
No one from the RMT has yet been able to answer that. Bob Crowe's reasoning is completely flawed.
I was only responding to the pay argument raised above!
I would imagine that being moved from a position in front of a bank of monitors, to a position inside a cubicle by the gates could well compromise safety?
Who says that this is where they are being moved from?
All the people who work on the monitors and CCTV stuff have absolutely nothing to do with Oystercards and ticketing so why do you assume that they are the staff being moved?
That reasoning is as flawed as Bob Crowe's.
From what I've read on some tube related messageboards, I think some of the station staff are concerned because:-
1) Some will have to work in other parts of London
2) Some will have a new job role (ticket clerk to station assistant)
3) Some outlying stations may have staff cuts, with possibly only one or no staff at times (If you were working on your own at a station in a dodgy area, would you rather be in a ticket office or by the gates?).
Still, I don't think that striking on New Years Eve is the best way to go about things, as they will loose all public support.
Also, as mentined earlier in this thread, this strike has nothing to do with tube drivers.
Fan-bloody-tastic.
3 friends have now completely wasted their train fares into London, which they won't be able to get refunds on.. and I shall spend New Years Eve sat at home. I tend to only be able to go out every other year for new years due to husband being on call.. this year he's not on call, yet I get to sit at home for it anyway.
Cheers London Underground workers.. You're a bunch of w*nkers
Oh, and when I was job hunting 18 months ago, desperate for any job, the starting salary for a basic phone answering job at LU was only just under 19k.. Plus free travel for you and your partner in all zones, which is worth a good few K a year.. Plus a very good pension.
Oh no.. people might have to work in a different area of London? How awful for them..
Welcome to the real world LU.
*shakes head*
I believe other forms of transport exist in London. There are trains, and buses. Could you and your friends not use those? Are they afraid of daylight?
What kinds of changes to conditions should be allowed before you would stand up for them? If you suddenly got transferred from your job to something completely different with no meaningful consultation, wouldn't you be aggrieved? If you were moved to a different workplace, would you just accept it.
And don't include the pension as a benefit: You were against the workers striking to protect that too. You can't have it both ways.
Let's face it, Ian: the Tube is superior to buses. In the parts that it reaches, of course.
"You can't beat the Tube!"
Without the Tube, the buses (which would have been packed solid anyway) will be absolutely heaving.
I'll be going into the centre for New Year. I think I will go during the day in order to try to avoid the packedness on the buses, unless the Tube strike doesn't start until later on.
Ian - as Fimb has said that in the main she is not arguing about the principle of the strike but the timing of it.
Also I agree with her in that LU workers should be welcomed to the real world of employment.
Do they think they are the only staff in the UK who are re-located to other areas with no consultation? Get real, how many other companies re-locate staff at the drop of a hat and they don't all go on strike because of it.
So you're arguing that because other people put up with it then that makes it right?
The timing of the strike is a direct consequence of the timing of the threat, and this is out of the control of the workers. Perhaps if LU hadn't decided to implement these changes at the end of the year, there wouldn't be strikes at the end of the year. If LU agreed to consult and reconsider on their actions in the spring, then there wouldn't be a strike now.
No I'm arguing that because other people in the real world put up with it, maybe people who work for the London Underground ought to too.
I agree about the timing of the strike being out of the hands of "the workers" but entirely "in the hands" of Bob Crow and the union officials.
Why not strike on the 30th December then? Or the 2nd of January? If your somewhat naive and rather desperate argument of the timing of the strikes holds any validity at all. ( I think that we all know by now that Ian argues for the sake of arguing)
If you do not think that they are doing this deliberately on New Year's Eve purely to cause maximum disruption - you are far more naive than I originally thought you were.
I'm thoroughly bored of saying this now to you now Ian, as everyone else on here knows they are doing this to cause maximum and disruption and publicity and we had exactly the same arguments when they threatened to strike over the Xmas holiday period.
If you think this strike is popular - well good luck to you Ian, cos you are in a very, very small minority - including the union officials and Bob Crow, and that's a mean spirited and thoughtless minority that I'm very glad I'm not in.
I wouldn't deny that this strike is being scheduled to cause maximum disruption. I just don't see that there's anything wrong with striking to cause maximum disruption. It's not as if this day is somehow special to the "don't strike then" brigade. If it's not new years eve when everyone is off, then it's before christmas when everyone is shopping. I just feel that working conditions of the workers are more important than to be cast aside for the convenience of revellers.
Like I said, if LU chose to not implement this until the spring, and enter meaningful consultations beforehand, this action could be delayed. Why does this need to be implemented now? What's the rush?
And I'd dearly love not to argue, but only when everyone comes around to my way of thinking 
Merry...
Ian said - "If it's not new year's eve when everyone is off, then it's before christmas when everyone is shopping."
No, Ian they could have chosen many other days if you persist with this ridiculous argument about LU imposing the strike date on them. It could have been the 27th, the 28th, the 29th or the 30th of December or alternatively the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th of January.
We all know why they chose the 31st of December. Maximum disruption and maximum publicity and thank goodness that means maximum lack of sympathy for their cause. They do not have an ounce of my sympathy or the general public's sympathy for this.
Merry Xmas!
Hmmm....
RMT wants a 35hr working week for all. They go on strike and hey presto, they all get 35hr weeks.
Then... miraculously (not) if same staff all work less hours... they are left with less staff (no sh!t Sherlock)
So, they go on strike AGAIN! Am I missing something?
One is obviously linked to the other.
On the station comments they argue that I should just not go out then, and stay off the tube.
Why does a whole lot of people's NYE have to be disrupted for the sake of so little people who actually voted in favour? It's a joke, and the date IS chosen for maximum disruption, blatantly.
As Annie said, Thank God it also causes maximum non-sympathy. They won't be getting any from me, ever again. Some of us rely on public transport, and can;t afford anything else or it's just not practical. (SW London zone 4 to Angel every day in rush hours.... anyone's guess how long?)
They are pure selfish and arrogant. The lot of them
Logically, less hours worked per person should lead to more staff.
And Ian, you still haven't answered why they didn't choose the 27th, the 28th, the 29th or the 30th of December or alternatively the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th of January. Not enough choice of days there for them?
No, Ian, logically same staff working less hours means less staff. UNLESS they ask for more staff, but they didn't do that at the last strike so they are either just plain ignorant or they don't share half a braincell between them.
And yes, why not any other day but that one????
If the amount of work to do = W, the amount of staff S, and the number of hours worked by each staff H, then
W=SxH
As work remains constant, as H decreases, S must clearly increase.
"I just don't see that there's anything wrong with striking to cause maximum disruption"
Ian you're still not answering my question. We all are agreed that they are striking on New Year's Eve to cause maximum disruption.
In the same post as you agreeing with that, with your next breath you used the utterly ridiculous argument that the timing of the strike is down to the LU for bringing up issues of re-location at this time of year, so you said that is why they had to strike on New Year's Eve.
So for the third time I will ask why didn't they choose - "the 27th, the 28th, the 29th or the 30th of December or alternatively the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th of January. Not enough choice of days there for them?"
The timing of this strike is why the RMT do not have my sympathy or the general public's sympathy.
My point about the timing of the strike was a general point regarding the point that tube staff always strike around christmas, which is a direct consequence of management action.
Why not strike on the other days? To cause maximum disruption.
As for transport on New Year's Eve, as Nat West will no doubt say, there's always another way.
OK, that's a bit lame for you Ian, I would have expected better - no real answer to your ridiculous argument about LU forcing the exact date of New Year's Eve upon them.
For crying out loud. Every year.
London is suppost to be the capital of the world folks.
I'm hoping LU won't back down this time. Bring it all to a head.
Yes, there are buses Ian. But have you ever tried actually getting on a bus when there is a tube strike on? And over land trains? Not between stations in Central London there isn't. Once you're in London, on tube strike day, its nigh on impossible to get anywhere.
The sooner I can move and stop paying over paid, over priviledged workers who like to throw tantrums when they don't get exactly their own way the better.
Ian - 'What's wrong with causing maximum disruption?'
I'll tell you what. Lots of people work on NYE, lots of businesses rely on the final boost to their trade for the year, that NYE revellers bring in. How many people do you think are going to be laid off working this weekend? How many of these people are relying on that money they'd be earning? How many of them won't be able to pay the rent next month because of you?
This strike is completely selfish, pure and simple.
And I hope that the RMT and all their sympathisers may have, finally, shot themselves in the foot.
Neil, finally shot themselves in the foot?
They did that as soon as they announced the strike date.
As for Ian, your comparison that x equals y equals more staff needed :
When they first went on strike they all wanted LESS hours. Nothing was being said about MORE staff but LESS hours per staff, hence my argument if the RMT had had half a braincell they should've seen it coming.
My original NYE plans have been thrown into turmoil, therefor I now am staying local around my way, hoping that buses in zone 3 and 4 won't be stupidly busy, but fearing the worst. I won't be waiting for RMT to resolve, as they won't. Bloody bastards.
RMT - Sort it out!!!!! if you want to strike, fair enough, but to make it on new years eve?!?!?! and ruin the plans of tens of thousands of people; thats just PURE selfishness!
IF it does go ahead, you will no doubt get SO MUCH sh*t for it (its a Virtual Certainty)!!!!!! THINK!
No-one likes striking - it's a last resort. Underground staff won't like to have to cause disruption to the public - but if you feel that you are being unfairly treated, then striking, as a last resort after failed negotiations, is a valid option.
Striking also means losing a day's pay. So if you're going to strike, you should strike for maxiumum impact: which at this time of year is on new year's eve.
I actually joked with friends back in September that I was looking forward to celebrating NYE in London - as long as there wasn't a tube strike!!
The RMT's argument is rubbish. Of course if you have the same number of employees and each works fewer hours each week, LU will have to do some "shuffling" of resources to plug the gaps.
Of course, it's entirely possible that Comrade Crowe and his mates were well aware of this back when they signed the 35 hour agreement.
Five year plans and all that...
Frankie Roberto - In previous posts I have pointed out numerous other options that the RMT could try before they strike.. such as work to rule.
I simply no longer believe that they don't "like to strike".
I'm not always against unions and strike action, I just resent the fact that the RMT have chosen to do this on New Year's Eve. Why shouldn't people have a bit of fun on New Year's Eve? (Yes, buses, trains and taxis are alternatives but not practical for the numbers involved.) The union is going to have no public sympathy at all, but I don't think they really care. It is simply a crude and calculated move to maximise the disruption and give them the most bargaining power. They are holding the city over a barrel.
Why do they need to cause maximum impact, if they lose the money anyway? If they lose the money anyway, and care so much about the public as they like to make out, then they should strike when LEAST busy.
Striking SHOULD be a last resort, unfortunately the RMT will threaten to strike or actually strike if someone only so much as sneezes the wrong way pretty much. They love it.
And richard, I doubt the RMT knew about it last time they went on strike, as Bob Crowe obviously has about half a braincell. Twat.
Apparently RMT have refused to attend talks at ACAS, despite their claims to the contrary that they were "ready to talk to LU" -- so Crow is caught lying yet again.
The heck of it is that I think some RMT members are legitimately concerned about the effect the new rostering will have -- whether this will prove to be accurate is unclear, but the concerns are legitimate, nonetheless -- but Brother Crow and Brother Law have succeeded in generating so much negative PR for the union that nobody is prepared to listen.
And given that LU (rightly) believe that they already have the mandate of the RMT to go ahead with the changes, they're right not to back down, either.
Well it won't stop me! Even if I have to walk the eighteen miles to Camden on Saturday, I'll be seeing in the New Year as I planned! Stick that up your arse and smoke it Mr Crow!
Markus, it has changed my plans.
Thankfully this year I was less organised than last year and didn't have tickets for anywhere yet.
So I'm now staying locally, and hoping for dear life that I don't have to fight my way onto a bus, or walk 5 miles.
People would be prepared to listen if they would actually do a public-friendly strike once. That'd help their cause, and getting rid of that twat Crowe, he seems to be 75% of the trouble.
They should all be sacked. There is no shortage of people out there more than willing to do the job for the ridicolously high salary.
They are going on strike as if they have to walk around the station a bit they might actually have to do some work. Most ticket office staff are the slowest workers ever and often just close the windows while they sit there chatting to each other.
This is not about safety at all - getting ticket office staff out onto the platforms will increase safety.
They should privatise the ticket offices anyway - nobody would put up with awful customer service like that in Tesco so we shouldn't get that for people being paid 20k to sit there. (outrageously more than nurses get)
most of you above are idiots, i work on an a lul station, and have to put up with people like you all day your never wrong are you?. where are u going to be next time we have bombs and theres no staff to come running down the tunnels (putting ourselves at risk something which is not part of our job description) to come help you, when your mugged etc who are you going to look to for help,lul keeps talking about moving ticket staff my station in the middle of central london is losing over half it gateline/platform staff so its not only ticket sellers so to Mark A for example before you open your mouth maybe you should find out exactly what the dispute is all about.
Station guy - thanks for making a comment - it's a shame there aren't more station staff who are willing to come on board to speak.
At the moment we only have the media and big mouth Bob Crowe to put across the staff's arguments.
However, I don't think the majority of people on here are against the strike per se - although LU, have time and time again publically stated there will be no staff cuts only re-locations.
So as far as we can see there will be just as many staff but taken away from the ticket offices and put into more prominent positions where we can see you and where you may be able to help us in some of the situations you mention above.
Bob Crow holding this strike on New Year's Eve has automatically alienated the vast majority of the public who just think "Bastards they're out out ruin our New Year" and from that respect you can hardly blame us for thinking that.
So blame Mr Crow for people's attitudes, but I sincerely welcome more station staff to come online and put across their views.
LU annoy me a lot. Bob Crow seems to be the head of a selfish bunch of people, who really cannot be bothered to do any work.
We all know that they chose 31st December to cause maximum disruption and to ruin people's evenings. For a lot of people, it's a night that people look forward to for months.
The worst thing about it, is that they are held completely unaccountable. What can the public do about these strikes? Absolutely nothing. I have to commute for an hour a day on the tube, and without there is no way for me to get to work. Their pettiness comprimises my job, which really isn't fair. Why should I pay £1200 a year for a service that is so unreliable? Why should I have y job position compromised by people who don't want to do theirs.
We're not asking anything unreasonable of the staff - just for them to do their job. The job they are paid to do, like everyone else. Their style is so confrontational and childish, not to mention selfish.
Is there anyway for us to actually do anything about it, to prevent further strikes? No. There's always a reason for them to strike every few months.
station guy - you seem to forget that you are paid 20k for a job that involves no qualifications - for that you should go out of your way to provide a good service to the public.
You could have done this strike on any other day - if you'd done it next week you would have caused more disruption and had the support of the public at the same time. (i could have had another day off work)
Timing it for new years eve just spites all the long suffering local londoners who pay your wages.
Nurses save lives everyday and put themselves at risk for a starting salary of £15k.
And lets not forget the tube drivers who get 30k - particurlarly good for those lines with automatic trains. 30k for pushing a button to open and close doors!
It's really very simple -
More people have Oystercards => more people don't buy a ticket every time they travel => fewer people are queuing to buy tickets => fewer ticket windows are needed => less staff needed to man ticket offices => some staff need to find new roles and/or locations
I for one would rather have Tube staff who are trained, prepared and ready to assist with a variety of front-line services, rather than simply manning ticket kiosks. And wouldn't that be a more rewarding job for LU station staff, too?
I'm lucky, I'm out of the country until next week...
again everyone is talking about ticket office staff let me say again on my station alone we are losing 10 members of staff and that is before we even get to the ticket office and as for having no qualifications i for one have many but even if i did not do you really think that staff are just given a uniform and told off you go, and whats the big deal about new years eve it only disrupts those that want to go out get drunk cause fights throw up everywhere and the only buisness that suffers are the clubs that want to charge obscene prices just to get in, oh and how many days off do you get this time of year we have one we dont complain we get on with it, i actually dont agree with strike action but lul dont listen to anything else its the only way to get them to take action but i wont just stand by and let people rant when they dont have the facts as i can see by people once again only talking about ticket offices and as for oysters its amazing how many dont actually work
Some of you may know me and my views from other comments I have made. Certain individuals such as Fimb & Mark A and others making comments like they are all a bunch of wankers, they should all be sacked etc etc, does that really help the situation?
I have been sworn at & threatened over 10 times today by our lovely customers, despite my intention to come into work anyway, and I will probably have to cycle over 30 miles to get to & from my work, but hey, its not the station staff who have chosen this particular date, nor is it even the majority of station staff who returned a ballott, I myself never even received a paper.
To add insult to injury though, my RMT rep. told me today that Bob the Crowe is currently on holiday in Egypt!!!! If this is in fact true, then maybe he should consider staying there.
station guy - calling your customers idiots isn't exactly a wise thing to say on a public forum. OK, most of the public are not very well educated about the reasons for the strike, but that doesn't mean you have to call them idiots.
I would have thought that since station staff are the frontline staff of LUL, that going on strike and pissing off the customers that walk past you everyday is not a good idea. It's not exactly going to make your job easier over the next few days is it!
Some of you may know me and my views from other comments I have made. Certain individuals such as Fimb & Mark A and others making comments like they are all a bunch of wankers, they should all be sacked etc etc, does that really help the situation?
Comments like that harden the die-hards and make reasonable station staff question why they do the job.
I have been sworn at & threatened over 10 times today by our lovely customers, despite my intention to come into work anyway, and I will probably have to cycle over 30 miles to get to & from my work, but hey, its not the station staff who have chosen this particular date, nor is it even the majority of station staff who returned a ballott, I myself never even received a paper.
Which raises one point most people forget: There are many people working on the transport system who really care about what they do. An effective transport system makes a difference.
I cannot condone assaults on my colleagues - verbal or otherwise. And I think all of you who use our services - be they bus, underground or other modes - please remember that they are operated by human beings who should be treated with respect.
To add insult to injury though, my RMT rep. told me today that Bob the Crowe is currently on holiday in Egypt!!!! If this is in fact true, then maybe he should consider staying there.
Hmmm. Maybe you might want to consider switching to either TSSA or ASLEF?
Rob.
As usual my disclaimer applies - I don't speak for the Mayor, TfL or LUL - I just speak for me.
Hi Robert Woolley,
Not sure if you misunderstood some of my comments, don't get me wrong, most of the time, I do enjoy my job and the vast majority of our customers are polite and well-mannered, unfortunately there will always be a small minority of people who like to insult and threaten people, and although they are not targetting our staff personally, its the uniform that they are venting their spleens upon.
Im sure BC has his own agenda and self-preservation to mind when he decides what action to take and when. Maybe the Rmt should have a no confidence vote and seek a new leader.
Hi thereisno spoon
Not sure if you misunderstood some of my comments, don't get me wrong, most of the time, I do enjoy my job and the vast majority of our customers are polite and well-mannered, unfortunately there will always be a small minority of people who like to insult and threaten people, and although they are not targetting our staff personally, its the uniform that they are venting their spleens upon
I understand your post quite well. You clearly enjoy your job - and are dedicated to trying make things better. I think many angry posters here and passengers you face on the gateline forget that there is a dedicated core of people like you who want to make things better.
Im sure BC has his own agenda and self-preservation to mind when he decides what action to take and when. Maybe the Rmt should have a no confidence vote and seek a new leader.
Let's see. Mr Crow is a survivor - and he's not stupid - despite what most people might think.
im not calling them all idiots just the narrow minded ones who have no clue as to what the strike action is all about people seem to go on about ticket staff all the time without realising all the things that are at stake theres even the issue if the strike does not go ahead why should we work all night as part of a deal that lul has not even implemented yet. they expect us to keep our half of the bargain while not upholding theres for example im sure most people who work a bank holiday or out of hours get more money or a day in lou we do not so why should we work all night
Well looks like thereisnospoon was right and Bob Crow is on holiday in Egypt This has been confirmed by The Mirror. Nice of him to leave you guys in the lurch.
A message to all RMT members from a regular LU passenger.
Please kick Bob Crow out. I do not see how he represents anyone other than himself. The more trouble he causes the more publicity he gets.
In my view he is politically motivated, is using you and making fools of you all. Remember without you he wouldn't be able to sun himself while you are taking the heat for spoiling London's new year.
You have the power to stop him before he goes too far please use it.
Another strike.. Despite 'safety concerns', etc, i think the real issue is the MarxistRMT leadership's desire for needless disruption. I used to think these strikes were due to plain old greed wrapped up in some crap excuse about safety but now i think these jokers just like being in the spotlight? And why pick NYE? That's right, Bob knows he doesnt need the public on his side because he has a stranglehold over London everytime he threatens action, and his members seem only to happy to have some more holiday in addition to their excessive allocation (when compared with other arguably more important professions such as nursing??). I personally hope the LU stands up to the RMT this time, and shows them that Bob and his Crow-nies cannot have everything, everytime..
Ah yes, the only reason I want to go out tonight is to get obscenely drunnk, puke everywhere and have a fight *laughing* Strangely I've managed to get through the last 30 new years eve's without doing those things, but I had decided that this was the year I would!
I was actually going round friends, having a nice meal, and then ringing in the new year with champagne and laughs.
I get pretty regularly abused in my job.. In fact, just two weeks ago I was threatened with a gun (you should how much paper work that involves!).. But never, ever have I considered the people I deal with to be idiots. When I decided on the career I am following, I knew that I would be subject to a certain level of abuse. But I decided that the benefits would far out weigh any of the down sides.
Maybe some LU workers have only had 1 day off over christmas, but I know they are paid extra for working holidays, and get way more annual leave a year than anyone else I know in any other profession. You do get rather well looked after (one of the friends we were meant to be seeing tonight is a LU worker and the perks he has had are unbelievable).
Yes, you have to put up with some crap, but you are more than compensated for it.
Station Guy wrote: im not calling them all idiots just the narrow minded ones who have no clue as to what the strike action is all about people seem to go on about ticket staff all the time without realising all the things that are at stake theres even the issue if the strike does not go ahead why should we work all night as part of a deal that lul has not even implemented yet. they expect us to keep our half of the bargain while not upholding theres for example im sure most people who work a bank holiday or out of hours get more money or a day in lou we do not so why should we work all night
Do you really know why you've been called out on strike? You are aware that overall headcount remains unchanged and that there are no redundancies?
The dispute has been designed to cause maximum offence to Londoners. In one stroke tube staff have gone from being the heroes of 7/7 to the zeroes of 31/12.
Why should you work all night? Well, that's what your union signed up to. Why hasn't this deal been implemented? Maybe your union didn't tell you that local reps have been dragging out the new rosters for as long as possible. They should have gone in 2-3 months ago. Why on earth would a company come to a pay deal and want to drag out its implementation. With all the money going into the system through both PPP and prudential borrowing, the Olympics to get ready for and the move to World Class why on earth would any sane management team want to go slow on a key agreement?
The RMT has consistently pushed for a high basic rate of pay without premia for working anti-social hours. That mass of allowances were consolidated into the basic years ago.
Like I said before, if you really don't feel happy with your pay and conditions (which I might add are a long way ahead of the rest of the rail industry) maybe you ought to seek employment elsewhere.
Rob.
Speaking for self only.
So, you don't get a rather nice bonus for working new years eve?! Hmmm.. thats strange as the other tube workers I know were getting it.
Fimb, some of your information is not entirely correct.
We do not get any extra money for working bank holidays, nor do we get extra money for working NYE IF it is a rostered duty.
The only people who will get a bonus for working NYE are those who start after 23:00 AND are doing so on overtime. If it is their normal rostered duty then nothing extra is paid.
Hope that makes sense.
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