I am a student at the Evergreen State College who considers myself fairly conservative. I do not support the actions of those who were protesting at the port here or in Tacoma: I actually like having the military and their equipment occationally come to town, and think the desire to "demilitarize the port" is really disrespectful and stupid. I do not consider myself a communist, though my Evergreen education has given me the ability to think critically about America and free market capitalism which many people who have not had the opportunity to experience such an education lack. I love this country and I love Olympia, even for all the problems that exist here, and even though so many people take the freedoms we enjoy for granted.

I think this sister city relationship is a good idea. There are a lot of sickos living in the Palestinian territories, but there are also a lot of sickos in our country. Just because there are people in this country who do things like go on school killing rampages doesn't mean this isn't a great country, and just because there are idiots involved with Hamas doesn't mean there aren't a lot of great things about Palestinians. This sister city organization already exists. It seems like making it official would be a good way to make sure the right people are involved, both here and there. I think a lot of people living here might benefit by learning more about Palestinian culture. I certainly have: one of the ways I have benefited from my learning about Palestinian culture is it has given me a greater appreciation for Jewish culture and the people of Israel. The two cultures are very similar, and the conflict really is more complex than the news media makes it out to be - kind of like how the situation in Iraq is a lot more complex than the news media and peace protesters make it out to be. I also think making this organization official might send a strong message to would be terrorists, that Americans are willing to engage with and support legitimate behavior - but not suicide bombings and that kind of thing. If we as Americans just flat out refuse to have any relationship with everyone in the Arab world because some wackos there do some very bad things, it seems to me that this only serves to strengthen the hand of the wackos. I think this was one of the principle messages of the Baker commision, most of whos recommendations Bush has unfortunately ignored. Lets me smarter than that. Let's consider supporting this effort.
an intelligent TESC student | 04.16.07 - 8:35 pm | #
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Wow, anon | 04.16.07 - 3:01 am | ,

I never knew Rosie O had a twin sister. Take TWO pills and contact your shrink before you head for the off ramp with your cardboard sign.
A Nony Mustache 42 | 04.16.07 - 7:45 am | #
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yet you don't use the same tactic with the rapists and murderers in the Army

No one has condoned their behavior....they're being tried and those guilty, convicted.

You're an idiot.
UnfrozenCavegirlBlogger | 04.16.07 - 7:19 am | #
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Only a leftist controlled anti-American city like Olympia would do such a disgusting thing.
Independent Voter | 04.16.07 - 5:21 am | #
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Antisocial, wow you said "I nominate Pyongyang as the candidate for Sister City. It has so much going for it, repressive regime, food shortages, nuclear power ambitions, cult like
status for it's leader. I think it's a natural." I agree with you, the people of Pyongyyang sound like they have alot in common with the poor and low income in the US, which are growing year after year, repressive regime,Yes we too have a repressive regime of the
neorepublicans, and radical christian right, food shortages, because of lack of money too, and the US certainly has nuclear power ambitions, but the cult like status for it's leader only would apply to the radical right wing republicans,and right wing christians, they have a radical blind faith cult built on anything that their leader GW says. This includes
invasion of third world countries, mass destruction of cities and towns, murder of innocent men women and children, and that just covers the US military. Bush also has pays private
contrators, known as mercenaries who kill and plunder for fun and tons of money....I don't know, the leader of the right, GW Bush might be to scarry and violent for the north Koreans.....
anon | 04.16.07 - 3:06 am | #
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I am so tempted to side with the sister city thing just to go against what ever the oh so, very very boaring, so predictable good ole right wing boys and girls club of the Olympian comment community. The bully right wing Bush-Dick lovers who have marked their terratories, by mentally urinating in mass on anyone who won't embrace the Bush and their good ole boy regime....I do feel uncomfortable with the possible underlieing issues/agenda's that shadow this....Rachel was killed by Israelie soldiers-tanks, that has got to leave a deep embitterment against the Isralie government especially for not prosecuting the soldiers who killed her....Could this be about proving a point, vengence, a political statement?...Olympia the home town of Rachel, and only sister city of people living on the Gaza strip, Hamas affiliated ? I could just be leary now a days about agendas that are presented as honest with good intentions...Too many years with GW as president....I do feel strongly that this is not the time for this! I really feel that all good freedom loving, war hating, people should focus on getting Bush and Cheney Impeached. I feel that this issue should be of utmost importance to all Americans who want to stay free, and to snatch america back from the hands of crooks, liars, warmongers, little emporers, arrogant, evil men and their minions, GW Bush CHeney INC....This is much more important than making a political statement by affiliating Olympia with an unofficial country of people in/near the gaza strip who are at a continual neverending war with Israel....Who cares who is in the right or wrong with Israel and Palestine, this is a never ending war that neither will end, compromise, or bow out...You think one group is right and one wrong, I don't, I think if thoes people will not end it, and think war, death and destruction is the way, like Bush and his right wing followers, leave them to it, maybe they will eventually destroy each other...If this is about some need for some Olympians to understand and help facilitate peace to both parties, then Israel should be partners too. It's political, no doubt in my mind....What would be more constuctive, would be to eventually set up a world wide fund to help others escape countries where their leaders will not stop the killing and war....Set up funds, find world wide sponsors, and help sponsor the refugees, escapees, so they can live in peace,and have a normal life....We need to clean up our own back yard before we try to understand, help heal end the wars of others. Our country is knee deep in war and destruction, why do you even think that having social exchange with these warring people, will help them or us??? I understand there are individuals in war who don't want it, do not want to be part of it, and it's forced on them. How true especially in this situation, that area is such a mess, there really is no central government to agree or disagree with...Much poverty, that will never end because war is poverty for all.If the war ends than people can grow food, have business's. But short of convincing Israel and Hamas to stop fighting, it's not going to happen. And of course, you being a US citizen, promoting peace has no clout anymore... The US government (suppose to be us) are currently in a never ending war occupation in Iraq, threatening Iran, with crooked politicians, crooked self serving president and vice president who have control of an entire military equiped with nukes,,,,WAKE UP PEOPLE we have no business getting into the war and occupation of Israel into Palestine, we are worse than both of them, and if you don't get it, either your one of them, the right wing warmongers who are not getting rich off of this war, but just like to fight, the other half of the US voters, or your too occupied with your life and issues to see the reality and urgency of the US in relation to the World....Are you just liberal posers, who pose with the hybred cars, organic chocolate, fair trade, yet ignore the evil of our war thrown in your face and the long term repercussions of the collective avoidance/responsability in this war? There seems to be no real passion or convictions on the basics life/death inhuman events that are going on day by day in Iraq..Have the ones who are against this war become so complacent that they busy themselves with minor issues to avoid the BIG ONE, you know Bush, invasion Iraq illegal immoral death destruction babys women children men innocent of anything but living in their country that they would flee from if they had the money or health? Putting our young men in war, damaging them, killing them maiming them paying them to kill??? If your child were drowning in the lake, and you were talking to someone about an important issue, would you keep talking or run to save the life of your child. Well we are all connected, and we are indirectly responsible for the murder of innocent people on a daily basis if we don't drop the agenda and issues that mean nothing compared to human life. Maybe if we could go to Iraq for a few days this war would become real and urgent to thoes who can't see the reality, the urgency and stopped by our collective powers as citizens.....If we could focus and put energy and passion into ending this war as has been done on this lesser issue of making Olympia a sister city, we would have hope of making a difference to the people who want to live, without fear, death and destruction in Iraq, When dead bodys are laying next to you, brain, body, particles, on your clothes, blood on your face. The dead are a mix of strangers, neighbors, friends or your family members, global warming, sister cities, fair trade, politics, all seem to fade into the background, this is not just a one time tragedy, this goes on day after day. WE are the citizens of a free government,(thus far I hope) we are the ones who have allowed the soldiers to do their job, we collectively pay for the bullets, and bombs used in thier country on them.We are the citizens who pay the soldiers to do their job of death and destruction, this is no theoretical discussion, it's a life of hell for the people living it... and we are morally responsible for this by letting it continue, either through our passivity, or lack of passion, unless this passion directly applies to our own needs, what ever they may be ....I am not blind, I see this clearly for what this hugely controversial issue of a sister city with GAza, this is very obvious..If you want to continue to present this as non political, no agendas, sister city issue with Gaza, go ahead, I see some sad, or bandwagon agendas, that need to be taken care of when America is not knee deep in war and corruption itself. Yes all we need is the diversion of other countries who are actually not as screwed up as we, can this be an obvious case of National Codependency, a nation of codependents, who have to do this so they don't have to face the real issues!?????? Last weeks local conroversy was the morning after pill, Oh My God..........What about next week, HUH????? Seriously, the times have changed, theres a five year old stenchy wind blowing, it smells like death, blood and oil... and there may be no future for Iraq, Iran, is likely to be the next obvious target agenda by the neoconservative republican order of Bush! If we keep letting the president and his gang think that they are above the law, having to answer to no one expect the Chief himself we too are in deep trouble, the unthinkable, that would never happen could happen. We could very well loose our freedom our rights have already been violated by Bush's Homeland security laws....This is right out of the Orwell novel, War is Peace, Truth is lies, Science Fiction, Really? The people of Germany especially the Jews, didn't know what hit them, it happened so fast, they had all the obvious signs and warnings, but their own denial that it could happen was their downfall....We are suppose to be a country By The People, For The People,,,,We are the most hated and feared country in the world, and more unsafe from terrorism than we have ever been. Now, more than ever, if given a chance the radical muslim terrorists would enjoy killing as many women men and children in the US as they can. You have Bush and his gang to thank for that...But that could be the least of our problems if we let Bush continue, unchecked, not held accountable for his policies, actions and lies....
anon | 04.16.07 - 3:01 am | #
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I am at a near loss for words.

I hope it succeeds. But since Olympia is going for extreme - why not a city in North Korea. Now there is a poor country with a "misunderstood" leader. Oh, lead us out of our backward thinking great people of Olympia.

I also wish you great success with draining Capital Lake and created a swamp. The entertainment value is exceptional.

Olympia, are you ready for the national news coverage?
RH | 04.16.07 - 12:54 am | #
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"Are suicide bombers rational people? And to answer your question, rape, murder etc are not the acts of rational people."

The relationship between rapists and murderers in the US Military has the same relationship as suicide bombers in Rafah - a VERY small minority. Yet you paint the population of Rafah, indeed, all of Palestine, with the brush of the bombers yet you don't use the same tactic with the rapists and murderers in the Army. The point is, most of the people in Rafah ARE rational just as most of the people in the military are rational.
It is also being ignored that Israel was founded upon terrorism and bombing of innocent people yet the same ones who call those terrorists "heroes" are the ones who condemn all Palestinians for a few who do the same types of acts. Hypocrisy is very evident.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 11:46 pm | #
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Anonymous,
You brought up rational acts in your post. What does the acts of the us military have to do with rafah and your cause? Not much. Again, you brought into the acts of rational people.

Are suicide bombers rational people? And to answer your question, rape, murder etc are not the acts of rational people.
What??? | 04.15.07 - 11:17 pm | #
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If people are set on opening a dialogue with those who have different values and beliefs, then Rafah is a poor choice. It's only claim to fame is R. Corrie and that's not much. If there's one place in the world that the US needs to have meaningful communications and understanding with, it's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. I think that the Olympia City Council might be able to talk "Dear Leader" on a level that the common diplomat couldn't. Therefore, I nominate Pyongyang as the candidate for Sister City. It has to so much going for it, repressive regime, food shortages, nuclear power ambitions, cult like status for it's leader. I think it's a natural.
Anti-Social | 04.15.07 - 10:59 pm | #
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if the council think palistine is so great, they should move there. i agree with the last few previous posts. but then again, i am hateful and mean.
deb | 04.15.07 - 10:55 pm | #
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"Was the flag burning by RC and the cheering of the crowd an example of the palestinians wanting to live in peace? Is it an example of how much the palestinians respect the US?"

Are the rapes, murders and massacres of civilians in Iraq by US soldiers an example of Americans respecting the lives and cultures of others? Are they examples of how much you respect other humans? Are the perpetrators examples of "typical" US soldiers?
Same kind of questions - irrelevant and very slanted.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:54 pm | #
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Bed time for these older bones, and then off to the western skies tomorrow, with still no answer as to "Why Rafah?" Perhaps there will be answers and not recriminations when I return for another visit. It might be fun to live and teach here, but the lure of the sun is strong.

The Internet once offered the chance to see that lies cannot stand, but now it is filled with stands of lies. The truth is harder to find amidst so many more trees.

Aloha and good luck.
Mr Science, just visitng here | 04.15.07 - 10:53 pm | #
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"For the Jewish community, as well as others of faith, Israel represents something more than a political state. Israel is a haven and place of sanctuary for a people who have faced, literally, thousands of years of hatred and persecution."

But for others, including many of faith, it started out that way but devolved into a group as filled with hate as those they were escaping. Israelis are treating the Palestinians with the same disdain, the same hatred that they were escaping. Of course there aren't the ovens, but the treatment, the subjugation, the attitude that they others are somehow "less" is the same. Restricting them to camps, imposing rules the Jews themselves fought against, not allowing the Palestinians equal rights... very similar.

"More specifically, there are those in our own community who have suffered great loss as a result of the conflict, who have sustained tragedies of loss and injury that stem from both sides of the conflict."

Agreed. And a very direct way of healing, of promoting understanding, is to support this proposal of education, of sharing, of humanity. It is much harder to hate or destroy those whom we know and empathize with. Those hurt, on both sides, are invited and encouraged to participate. But you must decide to open up, to forgive, to understand rather than to stand off and blame.
If you don't like the idea of a relationship only with Rafah, do as I suggested and create a group to form a similar relationship with another city. In fact I think that more is better! 4 or 5 would be great!
Regarding the idea of identifying affiliations - I am aware of the history but had not considered that aspect. I, too, would find that offensive if it were done personally. But, as I suggested, the affiliations would be connected only with the "screen names" and not with individuals. There would be no identifying marks on people. If there were you can be assured I would be one who would also wear the mark as was done in Holland(?) to confound/confuse the situation. I don't hold with discrimination - which is part of why I take the stand on this issue that I do.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:50 pm | #
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Passion can poison the mind.
Mr Science, just visitng here | 04.15.07 - 10:00 pm | #
And it can make women and children strap bombs to themselves too. Something Israelis don't do.
Sorry for the duplicate post.
David Kay | 04.15.07 - 10:40 pm | #
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Anonymous,

How do you know the tank driver was hate-filled? Did you talk to him? Did you interview him? Isn't there a frivilous lawsuit being refiled against the manufacturer of the dozer claiming that the drivers can't see clearly?

Most rational people wouldn't stand in front of a military vehicle and ignore commands/requests/orders to move. Most rational people don't try to make a stand in the middle of an armed conflict. Was RC being rational when she was burning the flag or her country with anger in his face/eyes?
What??? | 04.15.07 - 10:40 pm | #
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Passion can poison the mind.
Mr Science, just visitng here | 04.15.07 - 10:00 pm | #
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:34 pm | #
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anon:
if thats what you have to tell yourself to sleep at night, then hey okay, great. i suppose you also aprove of that group writing on the stalls at the eagles in oly? as an eagle member i find all of your positioning sick.
deb | 04.15.07 - 10:34 pm | #
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Perhaps another reason why NOT to sister up with the Palis:
The BBC and the Foreign Office told AFP they were urgently investigating reports Sunday that kidnapped BBC Gaza correspondent Alan Johnston had been executed....
UnfrozenCavegirlBlogger | 04.15.07 - 10:31 pm | #
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"she threw herself under a bull dozer. she wasn't pushed, shedidn't trip, those are the excuses made up by people who would rather place blame on anyone but her."

Right, Deb. You were there and saw it all. You know everything about it. You even read her mind and knew what was there.
Your small mind just can't get around the idea that someone can care about others.
Rachel stood strong to protect the house of her friends - something you apparently can't understand. She expected the cat driver to stop as any rational, thinking, caring human being would do. She wasn't counting on the driver being so hate-filled that he didn't care if he killed her or not. A lot like your attitude, apparently. It seems you would not have trouble killing an innocent person and justifying it because of your hate, either. Says a lot about you, and none of it good.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:26 pm | #
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Alice Zillah,
Last month we (the Eagles) rented our ballroom to the Rafah sister city project. Two days later I discovered graffitti in the mens restroom. Since there were no other rentals in the interim I could only assume that it was someone from that group. It consisted of a hip-hop style scrawl out of which I was able to pick out the words "kill" and "Jews". I don't know if it was exhorting the reader to kill Jews or accusing Jews of killing. Also prominent was the word "intifada" and the star and crescent of Islam. Our building manager chose to clean it up as quickly as possible and let it go. I always find it irksome when rental parties abuse our building but this was particularly disturbing to me.

Regards,
Olyeagle
Member FOE 21
Olyeagle | 04.15.07 - 10:22 pm | #
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yes i have kids, and a close friend of ours was friends with rc, and he told us all about it. he figured she was high when she did it. i am beither cruel or hateful. my kids are well adjusted and get very good grades in school, thank you very much. the whole thought of this sickens me, and makes me wonderwhy anyone in their right mind would think this is a good idea. i have jewish friends, i also mave muslim friends, i am not what you think, but then again, i don't really care what you think of me. my confidence isn't based upon your cloudy headed opinions.
deb | 04.15.07 - 10:15 pm | #
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"doesn't surprise me. what do you expect from a bunch of dozer diving herion junkies."
deb | 04.15.07 - 6:34 pm |

deb, my only hope is that you don't have children. It sickens me to think someone as hateful and cruel as you might have reproduced.
Wally's Pal | 04.15.07 - 10:02 pm | #
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Can we adopt other cities or communities that people from Olympia has committed sucide or got killed? I'm sure someone must of got in a car wreck somewhere and perished. If it is a community in turmoil, the funding from the International Agency would help them.
Toes | 04.15.07 - 10:02 pm | #
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"Mr. Science - why not Rafah?..."
Olybear | 04.15.07 - 9:27 pm |

Olybear, I appreciate your passion, but the above is not an answer. It is sophistry at worse, and moral and philosophical relativism at best. I can and have made arguments for other communities, and not on the basis of "Why not?" Passion can poison the mind.
Mr Science, just visitng here | 04.15.07 - 10:00 pm | #
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If there are other, more valid, reasons for opposing it, please share them.

Oh, I dunno, how about that their citizens regularly engage in, condone and celebrate the random killing of innocent people in cafes with bombs and nails?????????
UnfrozenCavegirlBlogger | 04.15.07 - 9:58 pm | #
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Olybear,
When did you visit Rafah? How much time have you spent in the middle east?

You claim anyone who isn't pro-palestinian as someone who is making claims based on fear. Well, I base my opinions on my personal experiences in the middle east. And as stated before, I'm not jewish. In fact I spent many years learning about Islam.

What I can't seem to understand is why do you want to support this resolution when the palestinians embrace and use 'terrorist' activities to counter israeli actions. This has been very well pointed out by many comments.

Was the flag burning by RC and the cheering of the crowd an example of the palestinians wanting to live in peace? Is it an example of how much the palestinians respect the US?
What??? | 04.15.07 - 9:47 pm | #
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Olybear,

You're right...it's usually not enough to say, "we ought not do X because I (or we) don't like it." This issue is not, however, a debate over a new parking ordinance. In order to understand my point, I think it would be helpful to understand to a greater degree the significance of Israel, and the conflict, for a meaningful segment of our population. For the Jewish community, as well as others of faith, Israel represents something more than a political state. Israel is a haven and place of sanctuary for a people who have faced, literally, thousands of years of hatred and persecution.

This isn't the right forum for history lessons about the origins of the modern state of Israel or the conflict in the Territories, nor is it the place to debate the merits of "your tragedies vs my own." It is critical, though, that you understand that not everyone views the conflict through the lens of social justice and oppressed vs. oppressor. More specifically, there are those in our own community who have suffered great loss as a result of the conflict, who have sustained tragedies of loss and injury that stem from both sides of the conflict.

It is not a question of "we don't like Palestinians" nor "they are bad and we are good"...paraphrasing my comments that way demonstrates either an unwillingness to pause and reflect upon what I have written, or an inability to understand what has been said. So let me be clear for you and others who may read this: I am for peace. I am for justice and a fair resolution to the conflict that addresses the grievous concerns of all parties. I am in favor of fostering communication and education (otherwise why would I spend my time posting to this forum). My problem with this proposal is *exclusively* related to the manner of implementation (singular rather than plural) and those who would manage the process (those who run and fund ORSCP are also those who run and fund ISM, which supports armed resistance against Israel, including its unarmed citizens). Spend time on ORSCP and review articles about "Israel's Increased Isolation" or a travelogue that describes Israel and its policies as "monstrous." Needless to say, ISM's site is far more aggressive and, frankly, frightening to me.

To address your own contention that this is solely about fostering communication and education: that's like saying that the NRA is just about securing the rights guaranteed by the constitution. You're ignoring the statements, history and background of the organization and it's leaders and, much more importantly, you're missing the point that creating an official relationship with a place that is so polarizing (both pro and con) without any built-in balance from another city in Israel is inherently political and hurtful. If you don't get it, and don't have friends or colleagues who can explain it to you, that's ok. But don't force your mores on the rest of our community. It is not ORSCP's place to tell Olympia what is best for the city in terms of how we engage one of the most violent and emotional conflicts in the modern world.

Lastly, I'd like you to address your comments about those who identify with Israel via heritage or religion "identifying" themselves. Was this a rhetorical flourish? Did you get carried away? Are you ignorant to the historical implications? Or are you just simply a bigot (did you notice the nut job who posted after you about registering at city hall...probably joking, but don't you think that's a little scary?)
Concerned Citizen | 04.15.07 - 9:44 pm | #
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i was right, the corries! see how easy it was once you get past all the bs. why not some place with less strife, where the appearance of side choosing isn't there. there are many more deserving places. by the way, rachel corrie wasn't attacked, she commited suicide. before you argue about it, she threw herself under a bull dozer. she wasn't pushed, shedidn't trip, those are the excuses made up by people who would rather place blame on anyone but her. i mean it has to be the big bad jews. really, please.
deb | 04.15.07 - 9:43 pm | #
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Mr. Science - why not Rafah? Rafah became connected because of the Rachel Corrie aspect, but the continuation of the relationship is because of the visiting, the friendships, the awareness of some individuals that have developed since the attack on RC. A small group has grown out of that event, sharing interests and information. Out of that group a sub-group has come together, and that sub-group has put forth this proposal. Simple. And no other group has organized to put forth any other sister-city relationships.
There is nothing to prevent several such relationships with several cities. I was a part of a sister-city group with a town in Russia. That Washington city also had a relationship with a city in Japan and one in Europe. All were successful for a while but interest wained sometime after I moved away - No, I am not taking credit of blame for that, it was just the way it went. I have nothing to do with this proposal or the group sponsoring it, nor do I have any personal connection with Palestine, Israel, or the Corries and only a nebulous connection with TESC as my daughter attended there one year.
BTW, my suggestion regarding identifying affiliations had nothing to do with a personal ID as most are using "screen names" on here. It was only to allow people to see the most obvious bias.
Olybear | 04.15.07 - 9:27 pm | #
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Two simple questions: As Mr. Science stated, "Why Rafah" and my own question "Take care of Olympia first" I dont care what your race or religion is. We live in a community that needs to help itself and others here and now. Focus your attentions in the "village" and once your affairs are in line, lets stay in the US and help the people here.
Toes | 04.15.07 - 9:20 pm | #
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i would support that place in africa that was mentioned a few posts ago. i don't think anyone but that wierd group who supports it knows the answer to the question. i personally think it has to do with the corries. trying to placate them.
deb | 04.15.07 - 9:14 pm | #
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How disappointing. Having gone out to enjoy the day after posting this morning, I find that no one has really answered my questions. There have been tons of moral relativism slewed about, posturing with the challenging of opinions, biases, credentials, education and just alliterative name calling not so far removed from schoolyard tauntings of "oh, yeah, well you do it too!" However, no one has really answered my question of "Why Rafah?"

No one has given a reason that does not apply to any number of other deserving places in the world, with people just as needy of cross cultural contact, support and exchange without the necessity of political purity of purpose and drawing a line in the sand. Because of the Rachel Corrie link? I met two other links today with West Africa and the South Pacific, so there are links here just as meaningful and not monopolized by one higher educaton facility in the area. Because of friends and contacts there? I and others here have contacts and friends throughout the world. Because of injustice in the Middle East? Does Gaza minimalize culture and need in the rest of the world? Is it the purpose of a sister city to reactify injustice? Is that the purpose of the program? Or is that a political end?

No answers, save the ones that are associated the politicizing of the sister city concept and polarization of community to fit the program of those who cannot achieve it on face value.

Very disappointing and rather sad. I'm sure some will challenge my position as being pro-Israeli, since I didn't side with them, or pro-Arab since I didn't side with them. One of the best ways to avoid dialogue and discussion is through recrimination and personal attack. It begs the issue and serves to distract from the points. This is what devisiveness does. So, again "Why Rafah?"
Mr Science, just visitng here | 04.15.07 - 9:10 pm | #
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Deb - you make no sense, can't/won't present any logical or rational arguments and don't have a clue about the issues involved. You just don't like the idea and don't understand how anyone can choose to stand up for others. OK. Your loss.
---------------

Concerned - I appreciate your rational arguments, but, as you understand, I disagree with them. You obviously don't support Palestine, and that is OK. But the effort to make Rafah a sister city is an effort to promote communication between the citizens of the two cities, an effort to help alleviate some of the problems Rafah is going through and an attempt to bring them to light. The rancor and prejudice exposed on this forum attest to the lack of knowledge about the Palestinian side - people seem to be supporting Israel based upon ignorance and emotions without knowing the recent history of the conflicts.
As far as some people in Oly not wanting to support Palestinians and therefore the request should be ignored... There will be support and opposition to almost any issue proposed. This is no different. And the animosity and strength of the support and/or opposition will always very. Some will be happy, some will not. Some will profit, some will not. This is no different than any other proposal. It should be judged not on who doesn't like it, but the reasons for supporting or opposing it. The reasons for supporting his proposal are all positive - it will help foster understanding; it will assist the people of Rafah to survive; it will allow people of both cities to share and educate each other. The reasons for opposing all seem to be "we don't like it!" of "They are all bad people and they hurt good people!"
If there are other, more valid, reasons for opposing it, please share them.
Olybear | 04.15.07 - 9:05 pm | #
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It sure would be nice if the city council took care of city business. How does this action help the downtown businesses? How does it make our roads safer? So the USS Olympia is banned from the waters of OLY, only to allow the council to adopt a city that is a harbor for terrorists. Once again it seems more important to send a message to the world then help the people in your community.
Toes | 04.15.07 - 9:01 pm | #
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Perhaps TJ could be an ambassador to Rafah.
Janey | 04.15.07 - 8:51 pm | #
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oly bear:
do you know what really started it all? i don't, neither do you, you weren't there, all you have is point of view that you have latched onto, what you believe may not be the trueth. i don't see this as afruitful relationship for the city. when all of this started you weren't even a twitch in your daddys pants, and as a wise man once told me. opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. i may not use your 50 cent words, or try and sound hollier than thou, but i know where my brain stands, its not with yours.
deb | 04.15.07 - 8:35 pm | #
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I can't believe that this is actually being considered
G-man | 04.15.07 - 8:29 pm | #
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Where's Larry?
geoduck_lover | 04.15.07 - 8:21 pm | #
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Olybear and others are making my point for me. Why should the City of Olympia even think about being a sister city with an area that actively participates in 'terrorism'? Both sides are to blame for the conflict. However, I'm sure the pro crowd will fling back the same old song.
What??? | 04.15.07 - 8:00 pm | #
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oly bear:
no rage or prejudice here, just not buying into the dope smoking propoganda. i think for myself and form my own opinions, i also speak with people who have differing opinions. just because i think it is disgusting to buy into this crap in honor of a misgiuded child how threw herself under a dozer. thats all it is, trying to make some parents happy because they never taught their daughter not to jump in front of machinery. it is a sad day if they do this.
deb | 04.15.07 - 7:34 pm | #
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olybear...

Your prolific posts are impressive for their verve and spirit, but help us understand your opinions not on just how opressive Israel is, but rather on whether the City should have an official relationship with Rafah. You seem to be at least reading posts with opposing viewpoints, and given your sympathy for the Palestinian plight seem to be sensitive to the condition of others. Given these two pretexts, it would seem safe to assume that you can recognize, though clearly not agree with, opposing points of view. So to the extent that you respect and recognize Palestinian rights, do you recognize that there are those in your own community (assuming you actually live in Olympia) who don't agree with you and that, therefore, making this an officially-endorsed relationship might not serve the greatest good? Could ORSCP continue its mission (which, according to its website has been VERY successful so far) absent an official endorsement that doesn't capture the wishes of most citizens here? If not, why not? Rather than regaling us with tales of Israeli evil, and proposing that "Perhaps if all those who are connected to Israel through heritage or religion would identify themselves as such we would better be able to see why they are so anti-Palestinian," (I hear they're having a yellow-star special at the crafts store), help us understand why this is a good idea that serves the interests of all Olympians. I don't expect you to agree with me, but I'm finding it hard to understand why, as a local tax payer and property owner with the same rights as you, I ought to accept a city-sponsored resolution that is hurtful and clearly and inappropriately political. Substance, please.
concerned citizen | 04.15.07 - 7:31 pm | #
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Deb - you need to seek professional help. Your rage and prejudice is controlling your life. Time to seek some mental health assistance.

To the rest of you - read what you are writing! You are allowing prejudice to run your lives and ruin other's lives. People saying Rafah is filled with terrorists - it isn't! It is filled with people trying to support their families in the face of discrimination, government sponsored terrorism and what amounts to death squads - from their point of view. All they see is that the Israeli Army is out looking for reasons to kill them and that they have no recourse - except for the armies of Hamas. Hamas is the only group who can possibly protect them. The government of Israel, who is supposed to be their government also, either looks the other way or 'cracks down' on those who resist having their lives destroyed. Palestinians aren't secure in their homes or businesses because they are forfeit at any time for any, or no, reason. Homes razed by tanks and tractors, businesses destroyed by forced neglect, curfews called without warning and violators arrested, never to be seen again, or shot on the street. No one is safe - even in areas they are told are safe! Is it any wonder why Palestinians fear, and hate, their oppressors? People in the US would do the same under similar circumstances. You know you would.

So don't try to make the Israelis out to be the "good guys" and the Palestinians to be the "bad guys". I just isn't that simple.
And remember the way Israel got its freedom? Remember the King David Hotel? Remember the terrorist leader who planned the bombing of the British Military HQ in that Hotel? Remember Menachem Begin, he who has been credited as creator of modern terrorism? 92 people, most of them civilians, were killed in that terrorist bombing. And now the same people who called that group "freedom fighters" call similar actions the work of terrorists. Hypocrites!
Remember Ariel Sharon's activities? "As commander of the notorious Unit 101, Sharon led attacks on Palestinian villages in which women and children were killed. The massacre in the West Bank village of Qibya, on October 14, 1953, was perhaps the most notorious. His troops blew up 45 houses and 69 Palestinian civilians — about half of them women and children — were killed."
Is it any wonder Hamas and Hezbollah use a form of terrorism to combat terrorism and terrorists? After all, 2 years after the King David massacre Israel was awarded independence! ANd lets not forget, Hezbollah and Hamas were created in answer to Israels attacks and terrorism.
I'm not supporting terrorism in any fashion, only pointing out that the only true differences between Israelis and Hamas is the power of the government Israel has and the money they receive from the US. Terrorism is ALWAYS WRONG, but to blame one side and not the other only compounds that wrong.
Olybear | 04.15.07 - 7:16 pm | #
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To Olybear, I was just at the National Holocost Museum. Your suggestions that "anyone" with a connection identify him/herself is a little scarey...sort of like the yellow Star of David badge...
Janey | 04.15.07 - 6:42 pm | #
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To Anon, my "critical thinking skills" I learned at TESC lead me to conclude that due the the holocost the UN and British assigned land to the Israeli's. The Palestinians living there were shoved to the side. (Sort of reminds me of native Americans, for example the Cherokee). But, this is now a done deal. We can no more undo that action that we can undo the United States taking over the territory it now owns. Should we all move back to our respective countries and give it all back. How about requiring any AngloSaxon with French DNA being required to move back to Brittany. Or how about making those with Angle, Jute or Saxon DNA move back to Germany, and letting the Celts and Picts take over the British Isles. Come to think of it, most Muslim expansion has been by the Sword and not by evangelical means. (Not to say that Chritian expansion at times has not been that way, e.g., Charlemagne). So what are we to do? How can we fix this?

I actually think reparations is the way to go. Not supporting Hamas and the terrorism it promotes.

Let us look for a solution, not just whine indignantly about injustices that have been done and somehow enable the vicitimization even more...or guess I'll be moving back to Germany, but part of me will have to go to Scotland, part to Sweden, part to the Prussian part of Germany...it will be rough
Janey | 04.15.07 - 6:39 pm | #
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Rafah for our sister city? Haven't we embarrased this city enough already when it was a nuclear free zone?!?! Where is this madness going to stop? What are we going to establish with this idea, what is the value added? If maybe we'd float the idea that we find a Palestanian and Israeli city that agree to work towars peace, I could see the potential but to pick ONE city where the leadership will not even recognize Israel's right to exist, to pick this city is another great insult to the intelligence of Olympia's residents. Are we going to became the laughing stock of the country again?
Paul Hardy | 04.15.07 - 6:36 pm | #
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will we never hear the end of the ms. corrie BS? i suppose this would be done as her family wishes, i thought these people wanted peace. they seem content to tear aprat this city. and as for the corrie foundation renting from the eagles and them being vandelized, doesn't surprise me. what do you expect from a bunch of dozer diving herion junkies.
deb | 04.15.07 - 6:34 pm | #
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Interesting comments from both sides. However, I'm not in favor of this type of action. Sister city, for what reason?

The most sensible thing would be for Olympia to make this type of overture to a place that is less divisive and more deserving. Perhaps, Bulawayo Zimbabwe. Talk about oppression. All the things that left wing nuts like to rail about, are happening here. There might actually be an impact that could be felt. Of course there are no Jews or Israelis involved which might not make it the feel good option that Rafah has.
Anti-Social | 04.15.07 - 6:33 pm | #
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So many people condemning the Oly City Council for this proposal. You are certainly entitled to your opinions on the subject, but my thought in reading each one of them is "Well, unable to read an article, they probably didn't think about what they were reading, just reacting emotionally to key words".

Since I too am entitled to my opinion, educated or emotional, my reaction is wonder that any place would want any US city as a sister city if judged on our national government leaders. The Bush Administration, to me, is every bit to be feared as any other. I'm ashamed and embarrassed, and have been for 6 years, that they represent the country in which I live. If allowing us to be their sister city meant that Rafah must therefore endorse the Bush Administration, I'd advise them to run like hell!
NLG | 04.15.07 - 6:11 pm | #
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Maybe the Olympian and the city council can raise the Hamas flag if this crazy idea goes through. I for one will never advertise in this paper again and would boycott anyone who supports a terrorist governed state.
t | 04.15.07 - 6:07 pm | #
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Sarah from Oly,

Your rhetorical question to the Rabbi is based on specious reasoning. The "opportunity for cross cultural exchange and a for a few peace demanding voices in Rafah to be given a platform to be heard" is not the only outcome of passing a unilateral sister-city arrangement with Rafah, as it sends a singular message of solidarity with that point of view without giving consideration to those who view this conflict differently or who may want the same thing as you, but within the context of having a relationship with Israel, as well. Don't assume that you have hegemony over recognizing suffering, prejudice and injustice! It's clear you are a sympathetic person, but I question whether you have considered that there are many Israelis (some with friends and family in this community) who have suffered grievously from this conflict as well. Many of these people would like nothing more than to see a peaceful end to this conflict that provides relief to everyone, but it's unacceptable and deeply hurtful to try to achieve this goal through an official relationship that recognizes only one point of view.

You seem to think that the only alternative to this unilateral approach is to endorse "the human rights abuses committed by the Israeli military to civilians over the [past] several years." While you don't say it, I assume your implication is that if Olympia does nothing, we are at least tacitly supporting these abuses. This is just lazy reasoning...ORSCP absolutely has a right to exist, and to the extent that like-minded members of our community agree with their point of view, the group will grow and thrive. But when ORSCP, which is a vocally partisan organization funded and run by those who have views that align with yours and who reject views like mine, becomes a part of our city government by running our official sister city relationship, we have a problem. Ultimately, this comes down to a question of whether this relationship should exist on an official level in any form (and the Council is considering multiple implementations...has anyone on this board actually downloaded the meeting packet). The City Council, as elected officials who represent their constituency ought to give consideration to your opinions, but to the extent that your views are destructive and hurtful to a meaningful number of your fellow citizens, I think the right course of action is to leave this "cross cultural" relationship in the hands of a private organization.
concerned citizen | 04.15.07 - 6:01 pm | #
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SAMPLE RAFAHSPAM:

As many of you know, on April 17th the Olympia City Council will decide on the matter of making Rafah, Palestine our official sister city.


This is the moment we need you. You have all been so generous with your support down the years. Now we are arrived at a serious moment: we need you to write to the Daily Olympian, telling them you approve of an official relationship with Rafah. That letter needs to be at the same time sent to the City Council of Olympia.

Without this particular show of support, it is likely that the council will not feel ORSCP has the backing of the community and the motion will fail.



We don't want that! We want our long work to result in a success! We need all our supporters -you - to write a letter.



It is extremely easy and satisfying: simply state you support official status and give an example of why it would be good for Olympia . Don't worry about craftsmanship. The council looks at the main message and the number appearing daily. Letters should be respectfully worded, accentuate the positive, ideally thank the council for taking the time for this important matter, and not exceed 250 words.
Don't fall for it | 04.15.07 - 5:57 pm | #
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These arguments and verbal jabs contained on these comments don't seem to be accomplishing much. Demonizing the people of Rafah is equally pointless. Some in Gaza have resorted to terrorism, and the region is home to a great deal of unrest and violence. Assassinating the elected leaders, daily helicopter attacks, depriving the besieged people of electrical power, food and freedom of movement have not been effective tactics for the Israeli government in bringing the vocal radicals there in line with pursuit of peace.
In the same way that some here are dismissing our elected leaders, doesn't it seem more logical that if we can contact Palestinians in person and find our common ground, we might slowly turn the tide of anti-US public opinion? What's the alternative? Escalation of violence?

Believe me, when I hear about a suicide bombing in Israel or fighting in Gaza, I first think of all my new friends in both those places and hope they are all OK- just like how I thought of my NY friends and my friend at the Pentagon on 9/11. When you have a personal connection with a place, it changes how news affects you.
Ron Eggleton | 04.15.07 - 5:35 pm | #
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In Rafah, a city of 150,000 people you will find thousands of opinions and perspectives on the political situation that they face. You can not label an entire community of people by the actions of a few. If you want to try to put them all in one category, consider this: currently in Rafah over half the population can not provide adequate food for their families due to the strangulation of the economy by Israeli policies, like destroying their port and airport and preventing goods from traveling in and out, including UN food supplies. I wonder which Rabbi Seth Goldstein would see as more divisive 1) The opportunity for cross cultural exchange and for a few peace demanding voices in Rafah to be given a platform to be heard or 2) the human rights abuses committed by the Israeli military to civilians in Gaza on a daily basis over the several years. Here is a link to an Israeli internationally respected human rights organization on the subject: http://www.btselem.org/English/G...h/Gaza%5FStrip/
sarah from oly | 04.15.07 - 5:19 pm | #
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Americans also need to hear the stories of the people of the Muslim world. We need to understand their challenges and their cultures and their hopes; to speak their languages and read their literature; to know their cultures in the deepest sense. Our interaction must be a conversation, not a monologue. We must reach out and explain, but we must also listen. Student exchanges and sister city programs and professional contacts helped forge lasting ties of friendship and understanding across the Atlantic and across the barriers of tyranny during the Cold War. Similar efforts today can achieve similar results between Americans and Muslim peoples throughout the world.

— Remarks by U.S. Secretery of State Condoleezza Rice to the U.S. Institute of Peace in Washington, D.C. in August of 2004
Ron Eggleton | 04.15.07 - 5:16 pm | #
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I think it is high-time for the tribes in Washington to start an armed resistance against us wide-eyed occupiers. They have suffered to long, forced to live on 'reservations' cut off from the historic homelands. They were either cheated out of their property or forced off at the point of a gun. I know some of you think you have title to your house, but you can't have title to stolen land. Start doing some family history and figure out where in Europe you have to go.

Next time you are on a city bus, look under the seat or at the person next to you. Hope they are not a bomber.
Eastsider | 04.15.07 - 4:40 pm | #
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Replying to anon, jr, and olybear...i'm totally in favor of your viewpoints, especially olybears idea to identify all those who are, by religion or heritage, affiliated with israel in this dispute. i don't know the best way to do this...make them declare themselves at city hall? wear something different on their clothing? i guess whatever would make it easiest for the rest of us to isolate those who so unfairly support israel and ignore the rights of those oppressed. it's so unfair that everyone yells about hamas being terrorists...i think this is just more nonsense from our super-conservative media, clearly controlled by people who are very biased about this issue. anyway, i think this is a great idea...no question it's "biased" but this is just too important an issue to be neutral about...the only way we can help these poor people is by taking a stand against israel.
arnand riaz | 04.15.07 - 4:28 pm | #
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What a great idea! Maybe Olympia can start producing Uranium for their weapons and hold fun raisers to help recruit new terrorist and martars for the war against the great evil of America. Yeah, and then maybe all the women in Olympia can start wearing scarfs over their heads, stop them from voting and keep them from working. Sweet! Maybe we have like five or six wives. And then we can shut down all the churches and only keep the Mosques open for men only to pray towards Mecca. And then, maybe gas prices might get better!

NOT!!!!
Proud Oly Resident | 04.15.07 - 4:20 pm | #
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keith,Do what for Rachel,stand in front of a bulldozer??If your friend jumped off a bridge,would you??
Phred | 04.15.07 - 4:15 pm | #
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jr,hezbollahwas formed by and in Iran.It translate to Party of Allah.
Hamas was formed as a security force forthe PLO {Palestinian Liberation Organization}by Yasser Arafat{terrorist}.What you see in Israel and palestine,is what you get when you try to appease terrorists.
Phred | 04.15.07 - 4:10 pm | #
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Olympia could become a sister city to a terrorist supporting community.

What would be the logical purpose of such a move?
Baynative | 04.15.07 - 4:06 pm | #
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Hamas was not just born out of thin air, the group formed as resistance to the Israeli occupation. Same goes for Hezbollah in Lebanon. If a an outside force occupied the United States, don't you think there would be an armed resistance? Would those fighting against the occupation be considered terrorists?
jr | 04.15.07 - 3:57 pm | #
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"How are them credentials for ya..."

All that and you gave up "thinking" for following. Too bad. One would think that with those credentials you would understand that suppressing others is not acceptable.

Do you really think that giving military aid and support and financial backing to those who continue to terrorize Palestinians, contrary to the World Court and United Nations, is a good idea? Do you believe that government sponsored terrorism is OK? Do you think Israel gets a "free pass" simply because they are Israel? Lets see if your "critical thinking" is more than just words.
Anon | 04.15.07 - 3:54 pm | #
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Janey

George Bush has a bachelor’s degree from Yale and a MBA from Harvard. He also had a higher GPA than Kerry at Yale. Your point about your credentials was what again?
Eastsider | 04.15.07 - 3:51 pm | #
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To Anon, I "really think" that giving aid and comfort to a group of people that offer aid and comfort to Hamas is suicidal idea.

BTW, I have a magna cum laude Phi Bet Kappa degree from UofW for my bachelor's and a MPA from TESC where I was taught to "critically think". How are them credentials for ya...
Janey | 04.15.07 - 3:31 pm | #
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It's interesting that the actions of the Palestinian people and their resistance to a decades long occupation are considered terrorists but those of the Israeli Defense Forces are not. Of course, I'm not shocked or surprised since that is the only point of view that is allowed to be presented in the mainstream media.
jr | 04.15.07 - 3:17 pm | #
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Here is a good one.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ new...RTICLE_ID=50478
Anonymous Bob | 04.15.07 - 2:59 pm | #
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We don't want Navy ships to visit but these wackos want this......Stupid leftist mentality. You are being dupped just like Rachel Corrie was. Look at the peacefull misunderstood Little Palistinian Child.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ new...RTICLE_ID=54797

BLIND FOOLS
Anonymous Bob | 04.15.07 - 2:57 pm | #
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Olybear,
Last time I checked, I'm not jewish nor do I have any jewish relatives. Wait, my neighbor has a great uncle who is jewish. But apparently he has been dead for years. Does that count?

You my friend are blinded to what is going on or better yet, you refuse to see both sides of this story. Neither side of this conflict is innocent. All the more reason not to support a sister city with either group. The website is clear and convincing where the allegiance stands.
What??? | 04.15.07 - 2:31 pm | #
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"Sending residents back and forth, art exchanges, acquiring fair-trade to sell here"


I dont want terrorists going back and forth and I dont want there crap sold in our community to maybee help sponser terrorist activity. Rafah is a hotbed for terrorist activity, kidnapping,ransom killings,bombmaking and rocket attacks. Please city council do not have diplomacy with a terrorist government "Hamas".
t | 04.15.07 - 2:16 pm | #
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"I think having solely a sister-city relationship with only one aspect of that conflict is very limiting, and it doesn't provide for the full cultural and educational engagement that is really needed in order to fully understand this conflict,"

I think supporting the Israeli government, no matter how they terrorize the Palestinians, doesn't provide for the full cultural and educational engagement ...
The almost unlimited US support of Israel while ignoring/forgiving/supplying their terrorist activities against Palestinians is shameful! We have too many politicians taking too much $$$ from Israeli sympathizers, granting them too much power, to have an independent and unbiased public view of the situation. Read the letter to the editor and the notes on these forums - anyone who calls for an unbiased view or a view that supports Palestinians, or even a view that questions Israel, is called ugly names and worse. Too many in Oly are also apparently either too blind to look at the truth or too deeply into the pockets of Israeli sympathizers to accept a neutral view.
Perhaps if all those who are connected to Israel through heritage or religion would identify themselves as such we would better be able to see why they are so anti-Palestinian.
Olybear | 04.15.07 - 2:08 pm | #
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Andrew Lyons states that the ORSCP isn't choosing sides in the conflict, but the organization's charter, website, and literature are exclusively focused on the politics of Israel as "oppressor" and Palestinians as "oppressed." For examples, see "Life Under Occupation," "Illustrating Occupation," or, most dramatically "Israel's Incresed Isolation," all available at http://orscp.org/olympia/?cat=1. Contrary to Mr. Lyons' contentions, his group and its mission are, by definition, highly partisan and political.

This partisanship is not surprising, given that Mr. Lyons (who sits on ORSCP's board and acts as its current vice president and past board president) was until recently the media director for the International Solidarity Movement, "A Palestinian-led movement committed to resisting the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land." Central to their charter is their view that, "As enshrined in international law and UN resolutions, we recognize the Palestinian right to resist Israeli violence and occupation via legitimate armed struggle." See http://www.palsolidarity.org/mai...n/about-ism/ faq for details.

I think the issue our community faces in considering this proposal is not whether Olympia and Olympians ought to participate in world events in general (we should, so long as it's not at the cost of serving and improving our own community), nor whether there is a great need for improved dialog in the Middle East in general, and especially in the conflict between Israel and Palestinians (there very clearly is a great need for improved understanding on all sides).

The problem is that this proposal would create a formalized relationship (regardless of the format) with just one city that represents a singular and, regardless of what proponents claim, highly biased and politicized point of view. That the organizing group is run by and largely composed of individuals whose own politics are openly and aggressively hostile to Israel suggests that constructive, unbiased dialog is a near impossibility.

One other thing...this proposal strikes me as incredibly insensitive to those whose stake in the conflict is not limited to questions of "social justice" or figuring out who is oppressed by whom, nor for for those who grieve not solely for Rachel Corrie (whose death was tragic without qualification). In our own community are those who have family and friends who perished in Israel as a result of this terrible conflict, and no matter what claims ORSCP makes to the contrary, the adoption of a measure that singularly links us with Rafah is deeply hurtful and offensive. Had this proposal come in the form of a trilateral relationship via an organization with a much more balanced set of leaders, perhaps my feelings would be different.

I hope the City Council takes these views into consideration when they evaulate this proposal.
Concerned Citizen | 04.15.07 - 2:08 pm | #
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Zee Olympia council vill get zere vay mit dis vun.

"vee haf friend in zee lejishlature"

Sieg Evergreen!
Independent Voter | 04.15.07 - 1:59 pm | #
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Embrace the terrorists and denegrate the military, it seems to be the norm in Olympia. I'm sure pinhead TJ Johnson and the Socialist TESC clowns will be all over this one.
ElevenB | 04.15.07 - 1:36 pm | #
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Is this the same Rafah that cheered with joy when rachel corrie was burning an American flag? And Alice would like us to believe that they are just people like you and I wanting peace. For gosh sakes, they voted for the Fatah party. LOL LOL

And FYI Alice, been there, done that and not very entertaining or peaceful.
What??? | 04.15.07 - 1:28 pm | #
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So the ciy of Olympia embraces terrorists while spitting in the faces of those in the military. You must be so proud!
FedUp | 04.15.07 - 1:24 pm | #
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Time for a City Charter change to keep Council on State & local issues only.
Oly Taxpayer | 04.15.07 - 1:20 pm | #
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Sleeping with the enemy.
IamNoOne | 04.15.07 - 1:18 pm | #
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And THIS is the "vital city business" that the council members just gave themselves a huge raise for???

There MUST be something better they can be spending their time on....
anon again...naturally | 04.15.07 - 1:06 pm | #
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Rafah is a town of people, not terrorists -- men, women, children, who are greatly impoverished and wanting peace and security for their families. This relationship would give people a chance to see each other for what they are, beyond all the name calling and stereotypes.

If you haven't been there, what are you basing your opinions on? For instance -- Rafah voted overwhelmingly for the Fatah party in the last election, not Hammas. Go there and see conditions for yourself.

Olyeagle -- I want to know what you are referring to. Please contact me personally at alicezillah@yahoo.com at your earliest convenience.
Alice | 04.15.07 - 12:40 pm | #
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Who is suppressing you Anon, are you not posting your opinion here openly??? Step out of your TESC bubble, visit the Middle East, then tell me how Oppressed you are. I've been there...have you?
The Original Anon | 04.15.07 - 12:25 pm | #
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Give me a f'n break! Sister city with terrorists? maybe for the commie city council and evergreen state loonyversity, but not for the majority of citizens i bet
G-man | 04.15.07 - 12:07 pm | #
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Brilliant idea, become close buddies with a terrorist city. What will the genius Olympia City Council think of next?
Ed | 04.15.07 - 11:28 am | #
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It is so sad to see misguided souls try to paint Palestine and Hammas as something they are not.

Please take off your rose colored glasses and see what is happening in the harsh reality of daylight.

Of course, the coments are Anon et.al. opinion. Which reminds me of a saying -- Opinions are like A**holes; everyone has one.
Wandering | 04.15.07 - 11:24 am | #
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"Who do you think it is who poses the threat to this country that permits you the freedom to post..."

People like you. People like Janey. People like Independent Voter. People who try to suppress anyone who thinks or speaks differently than they do. People like Bush, Rove, Gonzalez, Cheney.
It is obvious to those who really think.
Anon | 04.15.07 - 10:52 am | #
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I believe Anonymous is correct, the Palestinians in Rafah will welcome us walking on their streets...as long as we issue American flags to all visitors to burn along with them.

Give me a friggin break...take your head out of your...the sand Anonymous!
The Original Anon | 04.15.07 - 10:52 am | #
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This is reprehensible. Even more emarassing than the nuclear free zone and the USS Olympia.

Mr Science only visiting here, great post. If you choose to live here I'm sure you can do a better job teaching than they doing are at TESC now. As for me, thank goodness I'm only renting. When my house in Tacoma sells I'm outta here.
Cartman | 04.15.07 - 10:49 am | #
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Embarrassed to live in Olympia.
t | 04.15.07 - 10:47 am | #
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wow. what a stupid idea.
ap | 04.15.07 - 10:45 am | #
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Pathetically again. Leave it up to our city council to link up with a terrorist state. These folks need to be run out of town.
Nicegoing | 04.15.07 - 10:39 am | #
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Eastside -
I apologize. You were right.
Geo | 04.15.07 - 10:34 am | #
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That should be "I merely mentioned that the only American I knew of that had been terrorized, injured or killed -
-IN RAFAH-
- had been killed by an Israeli, not a Palestinian, by a Jew, not a Muslim or Christian."
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:30 am | #
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Eastside and Anonymous -
Ignorance sure is blissful, isn't it? Who do you think it is who poses the threat to this country that permits you the freedom to post your ignorance, the Sons of Norway?
Geo | 04.15.07 - 10:29 am | #
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There was anti-semitic graffit left in our bathroom after renting to the Rachel Corrie foundation. Admitedly, probably the actions of just one or two but still, it tells you something. I should have taken a picture and sent it to the Olympian. It probably would have made the front page.
Olyeagle | 04.15.07 - 10:28 am | #
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I don't fear "Jews with guns". I never mentioned guns at all, nor did I mention fear. I don't fear "Jews with guns" any more than I fear any other person or group with guns. Nor do I fear Jews or Muslims more than any other group. I merely mentioned that the only American I knew of that had been terrorized, injured or killed had been killed by an Israeli, not a Palestinian, by a Jew, not a Muslim or Christian. There is no fear involved, though I probably should have been afraid of being misquoted or having my words twisted by those who seek to terrorize others into accepting foolishness.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 10:27 am | #
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Why do these bums keep getting reelected? It's time for some fresh faces on the City Council.
David Kay | 04.15.07 - 10:06 am | #
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I thought Baghdad was our sister city?
Liberal Cowboy | 04.15.07 - 9:56 am | #
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How about adopting my hometown in northern New York State? It is a small post industrial city that has fallen on hard times. The city had a flourishing textile and leather industry. All the jobs went overseas because of NAFTA, etc. There are only poor, young people and the struggling retired. This city has the highest unemployment rate, suicide rate, alcoholism rate, domestic violence rate, etc. outside of NYC. The people there would appreciate welcome such an offer. The people in Fulton County won't hate you or threaten to bring terror to your doorstep.
Ehh? | 04.15.07 - 9:50 am | #
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"More than 100 people have written to the council to express their opinions; that’s more e-mail than any other recent issue has attracted, Councilman Joe Hyer said."

Remember the USS Olympia debacle?
=
Check your facts | 04.15.07 - 8:55 am | #
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Not only does this horify me, but I am embarrassed. I attend civic organizations in other cities around the Thurston County Area. In those gatherings the Olympia City Council is an absolute laughing stock and they are mocked for their ridiculous actions.
Janey | 04.15.07 - 8:51 am | #
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I live in within the city of Olympia. This absolutely horrifies me. I just can't believe it.
Janey
Janey | 04.15.07 - 8:41 am | #
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Mr. Science just visiting here,

Very well written statement.
DJW | 04.15.07 - 8:32 am | #
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Anonymous,
Very passionate plea for understanding. However, in my opinion somewhat wrong.

In a past career, I spent quite a bit of time in the Middle East. I observed first hand the hatred and violence of the people in that part of the world. And yes, I've been to Rafah and I also observed the dislike many of the residents have for people who are 'friendly' to israeli interests. If you are open to being pro-palestinian then you are treated with respect. I watched as 'peaceful palestinians' willingly protected and assisted violent terrorist organizations.

I'm sure the corrie clan is very welcomed there. Why wouldn't they be? I agree with alg, there should be some work by your group to have sister cities between israel and the palestinians. The article is also clear that this all about money. If olympia recognizes this then your organization is eligible for money from Sister Cities International.

Bad idea. I wish I was in town so that I could testify on Tuesday night.
DJW | 04.15.07 - 8:28 am | #
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wow, I'm ashamed to have ever lived in Olympia or called it home. I'll take a lot for this statement but I never thought I would see the day when so many hated this country so bad that they would side with a group of people who are bound and determined to bring the west down. I too have met "oppressed Palestinians" and have found out that most hate the west and Israel with a passion. Most will smile at you while trying to knife you. They have been kicked out of every country that tried to give them shelter. Their government is as corrupt as they come and they have made it their goal to wipe Israel off the map. I just can't believe that any city in this country would even consider this proposal, of course every city doesn't have T.J. on the city council.
audie | 04.15.07 - 8:19 am | #
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Besides the obvious racist fear by Anonynmous of Jews with guns, and others who fear Arabs with guns, the question is "Why Rafah?" Why not a small city in Ghana, or another West African country? Why not Central or South America? Why a city that can ONLY bring devisiveness to the tidal flats of South Sound?

Could it be because of Corrie connection with a small segment of the area population? Could it be because of an organized campaign by the local "sister" group designed to create the illusion of support? Is the City Council so dense or biased that it cannot see these things? Noise is not a sign of dialogue nor discussion, but intimidation.

And for you activists out there, take a deep breath. While neither Jew nor Arab but a qualified older citizen steeped in academic tradition and international work, I have trod the narrow streets of the Middle East, and while, vigourously examined and detained by Israeli securtiy forces at times, the violence I witnessed came in the form of random sniper shots and two explosions (one which parted my hair), that came from Hamas locations or their agents.

Ah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad; that jolly group of downtrodden freedom fighers that have such an admirable record of support for free speech, gay and lesbian rights, the rights of women and who use Westerners from the Islamic Solidarity Movement and others as human shields (The flip side that Rachel C was USED by Hamas is never discussed...only the implication that she chose, was never encouraged, to stand in front of a large piece of earth moving machinery.)

But, if we can support a devisive sister city approach, we can learn to really fear those Israeli Jews, a continuing and thriving secular democracy, where gays participate in military service, all women have the right to vote, with 18 of them serving in the 120-member Knesset, or Israeli Parliament, along with 10 or so Arabs. There are Arabs and Israelis in Israel who are campaigning for peace and justice in the Middle East. Perhaps the "sisterhood" with one of those communities would be better? Of course, I understand that they would have to find artists to sell their tourist goods at that Traditions Cafe/Shop.

Is the question being missed? Or Ignored? I really want to know this community to see if I want to live and teach here.
Mr Science, just visiting here | 04.15.07 - 8:18 am | #
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Come on now -- do it for Rachael !
keith | 04.15.07 - 7:54 am | #
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Good idea. I think the council should move there.
Dave | 04.15.07 - 7:43 am | #
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At least Madison, WI had enough sense not to make Rafah their sister city.

Only the Olympia city council would be dumb enough to even consider terrorist run Rafah as a sister city.
Spiceman | 04.15.07 - 7:24 am | #
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By a Jew? What, an American was just walking around and 'a Jew' shot them?

Seems your prejudices are starting to show through as well.

I have not been to Rafah, or anywhere in the Middle East for that matter. As to my dealings with Palestinians, I had a classmate in college that was from there and a speaker in high school. So what. That is like saying I have friends that are black.

But you are right, let's have a sister city with Rafah. Then when, not if, a terrorist from Rafah murders 'a Jew', we can read "the bomber, from Rafah -Olympia's sister city- " and be proud.
Eastsider | 04.15.07 - 7:07 am | #
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Looks like the project already has a website: http://orscp.org/olympia/

And an organized letter writing campaign which they have been spamming for weeks.

Guess this week's city council meeting will be another procession of motley species.

Will the Council have the backbone to ignore the mob mentality??
What a concept! | 04.15.07 - 7:03 am | #
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Eastsider - you are a poster-child for the ignorance and prejudice of which I was writing. You obviously have no experience in Rafah and probably no non-prejudiced experience dealing with Palestinians. There have been MANY US citizens walking the streets of Rafah in the past few years, and the only ones I know of who had any serious problems had the problems with Israelis! The only one killed that I know of was killed by a Jew!
Your note is an example of the type of "thinking" (term used quite loosely) that the sister-city groups all over the world are working to change. It is one of the main purposes of such groups - education. If, after opening yourself up to education, you still wish to express your prejudice no one can stop you. But you should at least others the opportunity to make the same choice - after learning facts and experiencing the other culture. But you obviously don't want anyone to learn the truth or to think rationally for themselves. You want to control all others and keep them as ignorant as you are. You are afraid that once people learn enough they will disagree with you.
And your heart is likely as closed as your mind. Too bad.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 6:51 am | #
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Hmmmm...perhaps instead of a Rafah-Olympia sister city relationship we whould be encouraging sister city relationships between Israeli and Palestinian cities themselves. It's time we encouraged these people to work out solutions to their problems with each other.
alg | 04.15.07 - 6:48 am | #
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Fear-mongering, whether local or international, has no place in our lives and we have enough faith and courage to accept and grow postitive relationships.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 6:21 am

I do hope you have enough courage and faith and are going to be one of the first to take a trip to our new sister city, walk the streets, and get a good idea of the local culture.
Then we can all watch your be-heading video on YouTube...
Eastsider | 04.15.07 - 6:38 am | #
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Why are people so afraid of this affiliation? It will cost them nothing while benefiting both cities and their people in many ways.
Culturally it would be educational and help dispel many of the ignorant rumors and false impressions held by some in both areas. People would be able to get to know each other on a personal basis - truly a good thing. If some still chose to hate Palestinians because of where they were from - well, that's their perogative. But at least they would be giving the truth an opportunity to expose itself. If some still hold to a "Israel can do no wrong" position, that, too, is their own choice. But to try to keep others from forming relationships because of their own prejudices is WRONG!
I'm sure that not everyone living in Rafah can live up to the standards set by the "exclusive" anti-Palestinians in Olympia, but neither can everyone living in Jeruselem or anywhere else in Israel. Nor can everyone living in Oly. Nor everyone attending Jewish services in Thurston County.
Some claim that to officially adopt Rafah as a sister-city would be a slap in the face to mainstream Jews in Oly. Not to do so is a slap in the face of non-Jews. So? There has been a non-official affiliation with Rafah for quite a few years and it hasn't had any ill effects on Olympia's citizens, Jewish or otherwise. There is no reason to believe that making it official would cause any harm either, and the benefits to the group and to the cities are real and worthy of support.
Let's go with the affiliation and show that the citizens of Olympia are big enough, strong enough and fair enough to welcome education and fair trade that will help all involved. Fear-mongering, whether local or international, has no place in our lives and we have enough faith and courage to accept and grow postitive relationships.
Anonymous | 04.15.07 - 6:21 am | #
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No surprise that Olympia would sister up with a haven for terrorists.

One again their hand is tipped, and their anti-American bias is shown for all to behold.
Independent Voter | 04.15.07 - 5:58 am | #
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Maybe Cindi corrie should visit out homeless shelters and tent city, maybe she could help to bridge some sort of economic relation and labor there. What he daughter di was pure and utter stupidity and suicide.
Jane Sprat | 04.15.07 - 4:26 am | #
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Hell, just adopt every terrorist organization and location!

Now would someone please tell me about the impact of a radical state supported regional college might have on south sound?

This is the biggest load of bull I havbe seen in ages.
Wandering | 04.15.07 - 3:15 am | #
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Take care of Olympia first!!!!!
fed up in Oly | 04.15.07 - 2:10 am | #
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Nice choice. Leave it to Oly.
Geo | 04.15.07 - 1:27 am | #
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