If a Christian person is one who trusts Jesus for forgiveness and justification, what is a Christian business?
Haha, that sounds like a riddle. I suppose in the technical sense, a Christian business does not exist. However, it's like a Christian book; What is a Christian book? It is a book wherein the author does his best to glorify God in his content, creativity, and then, his life.
It may not even contain any explicitly Christian material, but if the author is a Christian, and his book glorifies God, I would call it a Christian book.
The same for a Christian business. If the owner is a Christian trying ultimately to glorify God with his manufacturing, marketing, management, etc, then I consider it a Christian business.
We have 'American Owned and Operated' stores. Why don't we more often go to stores that are Christian owned and operated, instead of Wal-Mart, or Home Depot? Or Wells Fargo? Or Burger King? There are plenty of Christian operated fast food chains. I give 'In and Out Burger' and 'Chic-fil-a' as examples.
I hope that answers the question. 
It did sound a little like a riddle, really. I had to chuckle.
~ John.
A book is so fundamentally different from a business that I hesitate to indulge the comparison, but your definition of a "Christian" book intrigues me...
You say that a Christian book is one wherein the author does his best to glorify God in his content, creativity, and then, his life.
Using this definition, would Pilgrim's Progress be a Christian book if I could prove that John Bunyan chose to die in the arms of a mistress (I think he died in prison, but this is a hypothetical)? Or would Mere Christianity be a Christian book if it turned out that C.S. Lewis was flaming homosexual behind closed doors?
You say that if a business owner is a Christian trying ultimately to glorify God with his manufacturing, marketing, management, etc, then I consider it a Christian business.
When I presented the "riddle" (and there is nothing wrong with chuckling over it) I was hoping to illustrate that what makes a person Christian is something that cannot be seen. We are not Christian by virtue of so-called "Christian" conduct. But a business does not have that hidden soul wherein human beings are made truly Christian. So what marks a business as "Christian" must necessarily be something defined in terms of its conduct. If no person can be legitimately labeled "Christian" by virtue of his conduct, how can any person’s business be labeled "Christian" by virtue of the owner’s conduct in that enterprise?
I think you're wrong when you say we cannot judge if a person is a Christian based on their conduct.
I think we can pretty fairly determine if somebody is striving to good works (obedience to the law of God, and discipleship), and even if we can't, we can determine if they are NOT Christians based upon their business practice.
Wal-Mart is not Christian in it's practice. In fact, the business gives millions upon millions of dollars to those who would stamp out the name of Christ from the U.S. and eventually, the whole world. To support such a person, is to support a type of anti-christ.
To support a man who at least professes Christianity, rather than Wal-Mart, is part of the Christian practice. Do we not read that we are to 'prefer one another in honor'?
That's the thought. And for the record, I'm not too impressed by C.S. Lewis, but if he were to be a flaming homosexual, it would probably explain his Chronicles of Narnia being filled with greek pagantry.
But as for John Bunyan, his writing was done and we know his life. He was a Christian man, from all appearance and practice. He not only professed the Gospel, but suffered for it. Can we see the same in Christians?
Yes. Is the business open on teh Lord's Day? Or does it shut down, and theoretically 'suffer' the loss of business, for the keeping of the law's sake?
We CAN in fact determine if a business is a Christian business based upon if it follows the laws of God in conduct. The owner can only give us his profession of faith, and we then observe his conversation/behavior.
You said:
If no person can be legitimately labeled "Christian" by virtue of his conduct, how can any person’s business be labeled "Christian" by virtue of the owner’s conduct in that enterprise?
That sentence assumes that no man can be labeled Christian by virtue of his conduct. I think, based on the scripture, you're wrong. We are saved by grace through faith; And we are to show our faith by our works/conduct. Therefore, we can tell if somebody professes Godliness in their lifestyle and business conduct. We can then only operate on what we know. If he turns out to be a hypocrite, that's all in God's hands. We have done our duty.
Do you disagree with this? Do you think there is something else we should do?
I'm interested in your thoughts. You of course, are much older than I, (I'm only sixteen years old) and married. So it wouldn't be wise for me to cast off your opinions.
~ John.
Oh my dearest John.
You absolutely must pry yourself away long enough to visit my newest little nice at my xanga. She is so delightfully sweet.
The point I was trying to make about the books is that the book must be judged by its own content, and not by the life of its author. If C.S. Lewis and John Bunyan had lived scandalous lives, the books mentioned (Mere Christianity and Pilgrim's Progress) would still be undeniably "Christian" (in the sense under discussion). In light of such scandals we might re-evaluate whether we want to promote those books. To promote a book is to promote its author. But the content of a book, once it is written, becomes neither more nor less Christian based on the character of its author.
Without a doubt someone can be labeled Christian by his conduct, but that doesn't mean the person is a Christian. (You see the problem we have here with the rather ambiguous term -- "Christian.") A business, like a person, may behave in ways that we admire or ways that seem consistent with God's law, but that doesn't make either the business or the person is a Christian.
Ultimately a business is only a shell. It is a shell that lives or dies by the bottom line. If it is a sole proprietorship, and the proprietor is a Christian, we might see things in the way that person conducts his business which would lead us to label his business "Christian." But the business is not Christian, the person is. And the business is not behaving as a Christian, the person is.
Wal-Mart is the same way. There is no Original Sin in Wal-Mart. You find that in the people who fill the shell. Wal-Mart is not evil. The people inside it are. But they are not any more innately evil than the Christian businessman in a sole-proprietorship. If you don't like the decisions that Wal-Mart is making, then don't shop there. But we get into problems when we divide businesses into categories of Christian and pagan, and then tell our brothers and sisters in Christ that they should shop only at the places we put in the Christian category. In doing such a thing we are only expanding the Christian Talmud.
Now if that "Christian" business you prefer to Wal-Mart is selling an item you need at a price 25% higher than Wal-Mart, and you decide to carry a balance on your credit card in order to patronize the so-called "Christian" business instead of Wal-Mart, have you made a God-honoring decision?
I'm enjoying this conversation too. You should be commended for pondering these sorts of issues at a young age.
John,
I am wondering if the business your pastor and your father were driving at was a business run by Believers. Obviously, like you said there is no such thing as a "Christian" business, but with a Believer at the helm, it is our sincere hope that the business will operate on principles laid down in the Scripture.
This sounds like the "meat sacrificed to idols" discussion in
I Cor 10. Paul basically tells us there is nothing we can not partake of unless it causes our brother to stumble (ie. do something against his conscience). Eating the meat is nothing, for "the earth is the Lord's and all it contains", but causing a fellow believer to stumble is a grievous thing. I am not trying to turn your mind, actually I am encouraging you to boycott those businesses, because it sounds like the community of believers that you live in would take offense to you shopping there. I would not want you to cause a brother to stumble.
I am just saying that you might want to be careful criticizing those Christians who do shop at Wal-Mart (or other businesses) out of necessity or convenience. They may be unaware of what types of organizations Wal-Mart contributes to.
However, I did enjoy the discussion about how many believers put their patriotism before their Savior. I love my country and my President too, but I will always be most loyal to Him who saved me.
Way to go, man! Interesting discussion!
Eric;
Very good points. Particularly about a book being still 'Christian' after it is written, even if the author does not continue in his outward practice (hypocrisy?) of Christianity. What's even more interesting is that a friend of mine (Jeff Reins, or Bix in Bubble Trouble) and I had that very same discussion today. He had a poem called 'The Fellowship of the Unashamed' that he really liked, but the author years after writing the poem was caught practicing sodomy.
Well, the poem doesn't fiscally support him in anyway, but it does give him social recognition, so how do we deal with the poem? We decided that the content of the poem was ultimately Christ-honoring, and thus we will still tell others about it. (interestingly enough, I haven't read it yet, but Jeff told me a lot of good things about it).
So, yes, enlightening points there, I appreciate those.
Moving on.
You said:
But we get into problems when we divide businesses into categories of Christian and pagan, and then tell our brothers and sisters in Christ that they should shop only at the places we put in the Christian category. In doing such a thing we are only expanding the Christian Talmud.
Well, I agree that we can't always divide businesses into Christian vs. Pagan, but I do see that we can to some degree work this out. I mean, I know a camera rental shop in Dallas that rents cameras for about 50 percent LESS than other stores, but they were very bold about supporting brokeback mountain as a work of art. I will not support Brokeback Mountain (a sodomite film) by supporting that rental company, no matter how good the prices. To do so, would be to put money higher than God and his word.
There is another camera rental shop in town that is about 50 percent HIGHER than the other camera shops in town, but the owner claims the name of Christ. I think it would be plain bad stewardship to give my money to him. Besides, his store is open on Sundays, so I know he doesn't really practice what he claims anyway.
So my options? There are no other Christian rental companies in Texas. I could look elsewhere, but to do so would be pretty foolish. I'm stuck with buying my own camera, or renting from a normal rental company. Does this bother me? No. But renting from the company that supported sodomy? That would bother me.
You said:
Now if that "Christian" business you prefer to Wal-Mart is selling an item you need at a price 25% higher than Wal-Mart, and you decide to carry a balance on your credit card in order to patronize the so-called "Christian" business instead of Wal-Mart, have you made a God-honoring decision?
Wow! Excellent question, and it took some thought. What would I do? Well, I wouldn't shop at Wal-Mart, no matter how good the prices. Nor would I shop at Home Depot. They are taking a decidedly anti-Christian stand in their marketing, hiring, and donational decisions. To buy from them would again be making a God out of a penny.
However, like I said before, I don't think I would patronize the Christian company solely because it claimed the name of Christ, if the prices were 25 percent higher than the REST OF THE COMPETING MARKET. Now, if they were simply 25 percent higher than Wal-Mart, yet equal with the rest of the market? Yeah, I'd buy from a Christian store.
We should always prefer one another in honor, if we can. It's not so much the letter of the law, as the spirit.
Make sense? And of course, we can't always garantee where our dollars are going, but we can try.
~ John.
Amen Bro.
Wal Mart is probobly one of the biggest reasons there are less entrepreneurs today, to many Christians are spending their God given mony at den-of-vipers-mart.
Keep fighting the good fight,
Semper Fi.
You know, John, I'm just not all that concerned about doing business with unbelievers or withholding business from unbelievers who misbehave in particularly egregious ways.
A little more than a year ago, I booked a honeymoon suite at a bed and breakfast. After spending the first morning in the company of our hostesses, it was clearly evident that they were a lesbian couple. They weren't running a lesbian establishment. There were no overt signs of their homosexuality. We could have packed up and left (forfeiting our money), or we could graciously accept their services and look for ways to share the love of Christ with them. We have no regrets about staying, and I would be willing to patronize their business again if God gives us the opportunity to visit their town.
I don't know what it is that has you so upset about Wal-Mart and Home Depot, but I'm willing to wager that for every 14 cents they spend on charities and causes you find offensive, they spent 50 cents on charities and causes you would support, along with many charities and causes that you would not object to. Establishing a kingdom-based apartheid is precisely the wrong response to such offensive activities at these corporate giants. Essentially it is the same sort of descrimination many Christians expect to experience under the "mark of the beast," only in reverse. I believe the idea of patronizing Christian businesses before all others ultimately dishonors God.
God makes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on the just and the unjust... sometimes He uses you to do it... but not if you develop the habit of boycotting sinners.
Are you then concerned about doing business with people who openly defy Jesus and His teachings?
The Bible tells us not to have dealings with people who know familier spirits.
You say you are a Christian, then your money is really money God
has given you, to invest in either
good or evil.
Since when was it bad to do business with a Brother?
I'm very glad that you want to reach out to these people Sir,
but if I may be permited a question,
have you and/or did you share the gosple with these lost souls you speak of?
Do you keep in touch with them ministering as Jesus did to the lepers?
For as the lepers these misled people are indeed considerd unsavible by some.
Or did you simply fund thir evil doings?
What say you?
Are you then concerned about doing business with people who openly defy Jesus and His teachings?
The Bible tells us not to have dealings with people who know familier spirits.
You say you are a Christian, then your money is really money God
has given you, to invest in either
good or evil.
Since when was it bad to do business with a Brother?
I'm very glad that you want to reach out to these people Sir,
but if I may be permited a question,
have you and/or did you share the gosple with these lost souls you speak of?
Do you keep in touch with them ministering as Jesus did to the lepers?
For as the lepers these misled people are indeed considerd unsavible by some.
Or did you simply fund thir evil doings?
What say you?
Thanks Mike, great points.
I don't see any reason to support Wal-Mart. We're not being a witness to them, but they are using their money to ban prayer from schools, force students to cross-dress (it's been done in Texas already) and promote sin inducing ads on television. Those things are sins, and by supporting organizations that do such things, we are as guilty as if we had done them ourselves.
I don't condemn a Christian for shopping at Wal-Mart, but if he knows what his money is going to, I think he should choose another store to shop at.
~ John.
John,
I don't condemn a Christian for shopping at Wal-Mart, but if he knows what his money is going to, I think he should choose another store to shop at.
I don't condemn him, but he should choose another store? No offense, but that's talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You said that Christian shoppers at Wal-Mart are not witnessing to "them." What do you mean by that? Do you mean that the message and love of Christ is not being shared with other patrons and employees of Wal-Mart? Do you mean that we are not witnessing to the executives making decisions about how to spend Wal-Mart's philanthropy dollars? I cannot imagine any way of construing your statement so as to make it true.
Wal-Mart does not have the authority to ban prayer in public schools, but the most Christian thing they could possibly do is use their influence against any teacher-led prayer in public schools. Do you really want Mormons and Muslims leading your neighbors' children in morning prayer??? Do you want Christian teachers leading them in prayers to the generic "God" of American civil religion? Jesus doesn't.
Wal-Mart cannot "force" students to cross dress. Even if there were some schools or school districts being run by Wal-Mart, the company could not force students to cross dress. There must be some truth underlying the accusation, but as worded it is ENTIRELY FALSE.
Sin-inducing ads on television??? I don't watch a lot of TV, but you know, my most sinful moments have always come right after watching that little smiley face hack prices all over the Wal-Mart store. Yeah, you might be onto something there! 
Honestly... what do you mean? Those are some pretty weighty accusations, pretty recklessly made.
Mike,
We shared Christ's love with them in Christ's name (explicitly), and we funded the bread on their table. If the economic sanctions you think Christians should employ against such sinners had their full effect, they would end up in some sort of homeless shelter or welfare program where you could make their temporal well-being directly contingent upon their moral conformity. That is Marxism in the name of Christ. It misrepresents God in a truly blasphemous way.
Eric, Christ calls us to be a nation unto him, and to be stewards of what he has given us.
Why would we be evil stewards and give unjust rewards to the wicked?
That would be totally against the nature of God.
~ John.
You know I am a bit late on this blog. Better late than never.
I have never really cared for WalMart. It smells of poverty & really isn't an uplifting place.
But I will say I am dissappointed about Home Depot.. Who would have thunk???
Oh by the way Mike, I really don't see the point about the dialogue above. Every Christian has to make their own choices & if you were to choose to shop at Wal-Mart & I have, its on your own scoreboard.
Most people don't know how organizations use their money & some of those that pass themselves off as Christian organizations are not, or not from my perspective because they are different from my beliefs.
I do prefer to shop elsewhere than Walmart & don't support them. Just like Thailand, you won't catch me traveling there. But it is a conscious choice I have made.
We all will eventually come before God & have to answer for all of our deeds or lack there of. You can argue doctrinal differences all day long, but a man convinced against his will is of the same mind still.
So make your own choices because you will not be able to say, so & so told me. Men are not sheep.. Don't catch yourself going bah bah! ! !
Eric, Wal-Mart has joined a sodomite chamber of commerce, called the NGLCC (I won't defile this blog by naming it, look it up yourself). By doing this Wal-Mart will:
1. Now spend resources in time, attention and money to promote same-gender sexual behavior.
2. A Wal-Mart vice president will now sit on the NGLCC task force.
3. Wal-Mart will spend monetary resources to help fund conferences that promote same-gender sexual behavior.
4. Wal-Mart will go out of its way to purchase products from businesses that profit from same-gender sexual behavior.
But yet as a Christian you're saying that this doesn't bother you. You see no reason to take the drastic step of choosing to shop somewhere else. Or is it because Wal-Mart has the ultimate hook into your life, like so many others?, Your wallet.
Real 'bah-bah' sheep of our day will trade freedom for security and morality for cheap goods. Wal-Mart knows this, Home Depot knows this.
Remember Lot; he chose to stay in Sodom and Gomorrah; why? He certainly wasn't running a mission. He was willing to corrupt his own daughters to keep the peace. Obviously there was something that kept him there, doing business strictly with sodomites.
Lot didn't think he was doing anything wrong, he had spent so much time in the presence of evil that he could justify anything, even if he knew it was against God's plan.
God saved Lot, but just by the fact that his daughters had spent so much time intermingled with evil (that their own father overlooked) that they committed evil of their own and spawned two of Israel's greatest enemies, the Moabites and the Ammonites.
We can say that we have grace to choose between doing business with evil or not. What does the Bible say?
By the way, it doesn't seem appropriate for you (an adult) to be challenging teen-age boys in their beliefs on a blog that is obviously directed at others their own age.
-Kevin
Thank you Mr. Powers, excellent post.
I wanted to continue with more information about the movement, but got busy.
I thoroughly appreciate your response, and I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking this.
I've actually been called 'unforgiven', a swine, a dog, hellbound, and a skin-head, over this very issue.
It's ridiculously simple to me that when God says kill somebody, he doesn't want us supporting them financially. Maybe we should kill them (it is the duty of the magistrate to carry out that action, not the vigilante) but we certainly have the power to stop supporting them.
God made us stewards of our wealth, and as such we are responsible to make sure it only supports his purposes.
~ In Christ, John.
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